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i mean why are all the older sith and jedi from the knights of the old republic era frequently disrespected on these forums? now i know i am new and my opinoin on the subject will probably get me blasted but why no love?

Revan can't beat Maul? Asajj shits on kun in sabers? Anakin crushes Malak and Bandon at the same time? I mean wow just wow how did we get here? i mean revan and Kun are regarded as the best of their respective time and sudenly second tire PT sith wipe their ass with them I mean Wow what part of the game is that?

lol I FEEL FOR YA BROTHER iv been asking that same question for 2 months...

yea glad to see some one agrees with me i mean this board is a little ridiculous with its claims I mean the PT had grat jedi/sith but jesus they are'nt all freakin gods I mean why would you say anakin curbstomps ulic and kun at the same time I mean wow just wow

(note sorry for misspelling jolee bindo's name in my screen name i do find it quite embarrassing)

Because people felate the KOTOR people so much that we get sick of it. And you can only debate against something for so long before you get biased against it. Hence the Antediluvians and my hate for Master Chief

Because most of the Jedi in that era were cocky asses who didn't take proper responsibilities, placing the blame on something or someone else. Especially when Revan and Malak became Sith.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Because people felate the KOTOR people so much that we get sick of it. And you can only debate against something for so long before you get biased against it. Hence the Antediluvians and my hate for Master Chief

But if there is an obvious open bias towards caracters then these are'nt really debates going on. They are nothing more than spite threads. Now I have seen my fare share of kotor fanboyism but if you really think countering it with PT fanboyism is the llogical thing to do then Wow just wow

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
Because most of the Jedi in that era were cocky asses who didn't take proper responsibilities, placing the blame on something or someone else. Especially when Revan and Malak became Sith.


Um ok I see were you are going I mean i can understanding you not liking the jedi council and the tatics that they apply through out the entire era but does that mean you should also devalue all the jedi/sith from that era?

Its because, canonically, the PT jedi and sith are amongst the greatest ever up until the godlike NJO. Also, much about Revan and the others aren't known, so its hard to debate for them against people that we have plenty of knowledge about. Maul is one of the fiercest saber duelists ever, while we don't know the extent of Revan's abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Its because, canonically, the PT jedi and sith are amongst the greatest ever up until the godlike NJO. Also, much about Revan and the others aren't known, so its hard to debate for them against people that we have plenty of knowledge about. Maul is one of the fiercest saber duelists ever, while we don't know the extent of Revan's abilities.

Yes the PT jedi are amognst the strongest ever but there is a big difference in being amognst the strongest ever and being the strongest ever. It has never been canonically proven that the PT are the strongest jedi ever so why is it that a thread like Malak vs Anakin Skywalker is so haevily one sided with coments like "Malak gets curbstomped" or "anakin wipes his ass with Malak" being trown around like the gospel. What part of the game is that?

Originally posted by jole bindo
Yes the PT jedi are amognst the strongest ever but there is a big difference in being amognst the strongest ever and being the strongest ever. It has never been canonically proven that the PT are the strongest jedi ever so why is it that a thread like Malak vs Anakin Skywalker is so haevily one sided with coments like "Malak gets curbstomped" or "anakin wipes his ass with Malak" being trown around like the gospel. What part of the game is that?

I make a few points of the ot/pt powerhouses. to consider, plus I agree with what darth subject mentioned.

Anakin equals chosen one or basically son of the force. In teh zone nearly unstoppable
Sidious has been called the most powerful sith lord ever by ROTS
Mace=shatterpoint/vapaad very deadly against sith or any darkside users.
Yoda=called the greatest foe the darkness has ever seen
Luke=basically grandson of the force has the same force potential as Anakin once had.
Maul=one of the most deadly sith apprentices ever.
Dooku=great jedi even greater sith lord, greatest of the lost 20 i believe, skilled ligthsaber duelist.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I make a few points of the ot/pt powerhouses. to consider, plus I agree with what darth subject mentioned.

Anakin equals chosen one or basically son of the force. In teh zone nearly unstoppable
Sidious has been called the most powerful sith lord ever by ROTS
Mace=shatterpoint/vapaad very deadly against sith or any darkside users.
Yoda=called the greatest foe the darkness has ever seen
Luke=basically grandson of the force has the same force potential as Anakin once had.
Maul=one of the most deadly sith apprentices ever.
Dooku=great jedi even greater sith lord, greatest of the lost 20 i believe, skilled ligthsaber duelist. You forgot to add vader. I would say he is a great fighter and a very powerful force user. Not saying he is stronger than revan kun sidious etc... but he is definately strong

My bad i must have been thinking of him and anakin together.

^ lol np just that vader/anakin should sound fine since they are the same person anyways

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I make a few points of the ot/pt powerhouses. to consider, plus I agree with what darth subject mentioned.

Anakin equals chosen one or basically son of the force. In teh zone nearly unstoppable
Sidious has been called the most powerful sith lord ever by ROTS
Mace=shatterpoint/vapaad very deadly against sith or any darkside users.
Yoda=called the greatest foe the darkness has ever seen
Luke=basically grandson of the force has the same force potential as Anakin once had.
Maul=one of the most deadly sith apprentices ever.
Dooku=great jedi even greater sith lord, greatest of the lost 20 i believe, skilled ligthsaber duelist.


again this is all great and all (nothing personal but i know all this already) but other than Sidious and Yoda none of the others in the PT are called the Greatest but rather as being amognst the greatest there is a difference in being amognst the greatest and being the greatest.

Take my basketball reference for what it is worth but clyde drexler is amongnst the greatest players to ever play the game but he certainly is'nt the greatest just somethinng too think about

Its because we know more about them. Tehy have more books which means their stories and powers are expanded. Plus with the kotor characters we don't use gameplay,we use quotes,cutscenes,and info from he s.w. sources (and the other source also help the other characters too) I am not a fan of it (i like Bane,Revan,Kun alot) but you can't really argue against them pt/ot since they more feats,and other info known about them. Plus there are people her like Sw_legen who would like magnify revan and other kotor character's feats x10 which annoys alot of people.You can see other debates with revan in the to see what i mean.

Obviously you haven't read everything, the old republic jedi get plenty of love. Revan and Kun have more than a couple supporters around here and rightfully so. And it's not as though the old republic is lacking in strong force users, just that the best of the PT era out class those of the old republic era. Yoda, Mace, Sids, Dooku, Anakin, they're really damn good. You should read the arguments, they usually spell it out pretty clearly, sure you'll see some which are a little outrageous, but Anakin taking Revan in say a saber duel is far from implausible.

Blax had it right to an extent. A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away?) there was horrible bias the other way with people saying that Bandon would be a good fight for Sidious and that Exar Kun could defeat the entire PT Jedi Council handily. Most of the members that are still here from that time got so fed up with it that they have a bias against these characters, and shoot them down before they get over hyped again.

Also, there are all sorts of sources and hints that point to the PT being the best ever (up to the New Jedi Order, of course). For example:
* It is called the "Golden Age" of saber dueling.
* Sidious has 5+ sources claiming him as the most powerful Sith Lord in history as early as AOTC.
* Yoda is "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness has ever faced."
* Kit Fisto, gen Kolar and Seasse Tiin are amongst the "greatest" duelists in the 25,000 year history of the Jedi Order, and the likes of Yoda, Mace, Sidious, Anakin, Dooku, and even Obi Wan are way far ahead of them.


This is coupled with the lack of real information or feats to Revan's name. We know he was a Titan in his day, but, that's about it.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Blax had it right to an extent. A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away?) there was horrible bias the other way with people saying that Bandon would be a good fight for Sidious and that Exar Kun could defeat the entire PT Jedi Council handily. Most of the members that are still here from that time got so fed up with it that they have a bias against these characters, and shoot them down before they get over hyped again.



Well lets see were do i start for starters hate and spite is simply hate and spite. Hate cannot be justified for any reason because while fan boys are very illogical and post horrendous crap the only people who match them in ineptitude are haters.













Once again nowhere does any one call the PT the greatest of all time And while it might have been a golden age in saber dueling that doesn't mean that all the greatest saber duelists ever existed during that time. Sidious Yoda and the like being far ahead of "some of the best duelists the order has ever seen" doesn't mean that Revan, ulic, Exar, Malak or some of the other powerful jedi/sith of the time can't .

And take for instance another basketball reference if you will but the 80's and 90's are regarded by many basketball experts as the golden age of the NBA.

In this time you had players like Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, etc. who are among some of the greatest players the league has ever produced and the likes of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shaq are far ahead of them but that doesn't mean that players like Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, or Bill Russel simply pale in comparison to the likes of jordan, magic, and bird.

Now I'm not sayin zomg revan is teh urberrest evrrrr!!!!!!!!!! no i am merely stating that he along with Ulic, Kun, Traya,etc etc are some of the most powerful beings to ever exist and should be given a little more respect than what typically flys around here as "logic."

(side note Anakin beating Revan in saber duel is not "implausible" but Anakin wiping his ass with Revan is. That is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond ridiculous)

Listen this is great and all....but in KOTOR Bastila clearly states that Masters Vandar Vrook and zhar were one of the greatest Jedi of the Order...and Qu Rahn i saw him as very powerful also JUST TO SURVIVE for like 5 minutes aginst 7 Dark Jedi and 1 id like to call Jerec a Sith Lord because he has all the attributes of one...i see them as very powerful and skilled..Rahn to survive that for even 5 minutes aginst those odds were not good.....but we are on KOTOR Characters now arnt we.


Sorry for getting off subject what im trying to say is that the Jedi Council in KOTOR is just as powerful or more powerful of a Jedi Council in the PT because they ACTUALLY FOUGHT AGINST THOUSANDS OF SITH LORD IN A FREAKEN WAR WITH WHICH THEY WON! ok there we go

wern't the old republic jedi sopossed to be the best duelist ever? since the relied less on the force and becase in the good ol days hords of jedi verses hords of sith on a battle feild that means they must of known alittle more about sabers.

Originally posted by jole bindo

Once again nowhere does any one call the PT the greatest of all time And while it might have been a golden age in saber dueling that doesn't mean that all the greatest saber duelists ever existed during that time.


What do you think it means then?


Originally posted by jole bindo

Sidious Yoda and the like being far ahead of "some of the best duelists the order has ever seen" doesn't mean that Revan, ulic, Exar, Malak or some of the other powerful jedi/sith of the time can't .


Now I'm not sayin zomg revan is teh urberrest evrrrr!!!!!!!!!! no i am merely stating that he along with Ulic, Kun, Traya,etc etc are some of the most powerful beings to ever exist and should be given a little more respect than what typically flys around here as "logic."

(side note Anakin beating Revan in saber duel is not "implausible" but Anakin wiping his ass with Revan is. That is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond ridiculous)

Honestly dude, Revan and Kun are easily in the top ten in terms of all out ability. What more do you want exactly? While there are some that may be arguably better than them in terms of saber combat, only like 5 or 6 people in ALL of star wars beat them all out.


Originally posted by MasterAshenVor

Sorry for getting off subject what im trying to say is that the Jedi Council in KOTOR is just as powerful or more powerful of a Jedi Council in the PT because they ACTUALLY FOUGHT AGINST THOUSANDS OF SITH LORD IN A FREAKEN WAR WITH WHICH THEY WON! ok there we go

Yeah, but the PT jedi benefit from 4000 years of technique improvements. And that war, they were getting their asses kicked, Revan managed to bail their collective asses out.

Originally posted by Pwned61
What do you think it means then?



"golden age"( for one the PT has never been offically dubed "Golden age of saber dueling" I could be wrong but i'll play along if I must) to me means a period in wich over all saber skill would have been at an all time high but(this seems to be were I lose you so I will try to explain better) That does'nt mean that all of the greatest saber duelist to ever exist in the history of the galaxy are all present durring this era.

Just because something is a "golden age" still does'nt rule out the possibility that all time great saber duelist could exist in other eras a prime example of this is Luke and Kyle Katarn. Luke is the best Saber duelist of all time and Kyle Kartan is one of the best duelist ever but the NJO as a whole is not better than the PT in saber dueling. Now I know Luke is more powerful than Revan, Kun, Kreia, Malak etc and is the grandson of the force but it just goes to show that "golden age" does'nt necessarily mean all of the elite are present durring this time. Just food for thought.

Originally posted by jole bindo
"golden age"( for one the PT has never been offically dubed "Golden age of saber dueling" I could be wrong but i'll play along if I must) to me means a period in wich over all saber skill would have been at an all time high but(this seems to be were I lose you so I will try to explain better) That does'nt mean that all of the greatest saber duelist to ever exist in the history of the galaxy are all present durring this era.

Just because something is a "golden age" still does'nt rule out the possibility that all time great saber duelist could exist in other eras a prime example of this is Luke and Kyle Katarn. Luke is the best Saber duelist of all time and Kyle Kartan is one of the best duelist ever but the NJO as a whole is not better than the PT in saber dueling. Now I know Luke is more powerful than Revan, Kun, Kreia, Malak etc and is the grandson of the force but it just goes to show that "golden age" does'nt necessarily mean all of the elite are present durring this time. Just food for thought.

Luke is....well he's Luke. And nothing you've said in all that supports your claim that the old republic era jedi are underrated.

Originally posted by Pwned61
Luke is....well he's Luke. And nothing you've said in all that supports your claim that the old republic era jedi are underrated.

This is no way a personal attack but you completly ignored Kyle Katarn. Kyle katarn is not luke hell hes not even Revan or Kun for that matter he is.....well hes kyle but my examples are just showing that the PT isn't the be all and end all to everything starwars

But hey if you don't feel that the old republic is weak and that revan, malak, exar, ulic, and sion would all get beat by anakin 'in teh z0ne' skywalker'(who came up with this this is not cannon of the reasons why anakin beat Dooku nothing of him 'being in teh z0ne" was ever mentioned) all at the same time then maybe the original question was'nt directed towards you.

This thread is for the people who seriously beleive that revan couldn't beat maul or that qui gon beats malak or asajj destroys Ulic or some other blatant pt fanboyism that trys to get passed of around here as "unbiased debating." Those are the ones who are underrating the old republic era jedi/sith.

i ask once again what part of the game is that?

Originally posted by Atticus
wern't the old republic jedi sopossed to be the best duelist ever? since the relied less on the force and becase in the good ol days hords of jedi verses hords of sith on a battle feild that means they must of known alittle more about sabers. Hell no. Infact we hardly know shit about the old republics dueling skill save for the few like nomi revan exar and ulic.

PT jedi > Kotor jedi

Originally posted by jole bindo


But hey if you don't feel that the old republic is weak and that revan, malak, exar, ulic, and sion would all get beat by anakin 'in teh z0ne' skywalker'(who came up with this this is not cannon of the reasons why anakin beat Dooku nothing of him 'being in teh z0ne" was ever mentioned) all at the same time then maybe the original question was'nt directed towards you.
Oh shut up already. The ROTS novel clearly stated anakin was fighting clearly and tooled dooku with ease so therefore anakin is in the zone. You want the quote? Ask some other members. I wont give it to a kotor fanboy

Originally posted by jole bindo

This thread is for the people who seriously beleive that revan couldn't beat maul or that qui gon beats malak or asajj destroys Ulic or some other blatant pt fanboyism that trys to get passed of around here as "unbiased debating." Those are the ones who are underrating the old republic era jedi/sith.

I ask who ever said quigon can beat malak? Who said asaji destroys ulic? I never seen that shit here before. And maul beating revan? In a saber duel, yea

Originally posted by Manslayer
Oh shut up already. The ROTS novel clearly stated anakin was fighting clearly and tooled dooku with ease so therefore anakin is in the zone. You want the quote? Ask some other members. I wont give it to a kotor fanboy

I ask who ever said quigon can beat malak? Who said asaji destroys ulic? I never seen that shit here before. And maul beating revan? In a saber duel, yea

Agreed I already gave basically said it in the revan vs anakin thread but I'll post it again. And Maul gave Sidious a really good fight too.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Yeah Anakin in teh zone is pretty much one of the best lightsaber duelists he simply decides to win and wins as it says in the ROTS novel against dooku.

"It is that simple, and that complex."

"And it is final."

"Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail."

Here is some more about teh zone anakin.


"In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.

Decide.

So he does.

He decides to win.

He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair."

Originally posted by jole bindo
This is no way a personal attack but you completly ignored Kyle Katarn. Kyle katarn is not luke hell hes not even Revan or Kun for that matter he is.....well hes kyle but my examples are just showing that the PT isn't the be all and end all to everything starwars


At yet you've still yet to prove that any of the Jedi of the old republic, are a match for the PT in terms of sabers. Yes, I get what you are saying, just because the PT was the golden age DOES NOT mean that all of the best lived in that era, that stands to reason. However, it seems to be that the best of the PT era would surpass those of the old republic both based on the weight of that quote as well as the fact that the PT era had the advantage of years of improvement on form and function


Originally posted by jole bindo

But hey if you don't feel that the old republic is weak and that revan, malak, exar, ulic, and sion would all get beat by anakin 'in teh z0ne' skywalker'(who came up with this this is not cannon of the reasons why anakin beat Dooku nothing of him 'being in teh z0ne" was ever mentioned) all at the same time then maybe the original question was'nt directed towards you.


The whole "in the zone" is just a fan reference to when Anakin is fighting at his best. For example when he's up against Dooku Anakin isn't blinded by rage or anything, he's got his head on straight and he's using his skill, as opposed to his fight with Obi-wan where he let his anger and arrogance get the best of him.

Originally posted by jole bindo

This thread is for the people who seriously beleive that revan couldn't beat maul or that qui gon beats malak or asajj destroys Ulic or some other blatant pt fanboyism that trys to get passed of around here as "unbiased debating." Those are the ones who are underrating the old republic era jedi/sith.

i ask once again what part of the game is that?

You should check out the older topics involving the old republic jedi. I don't remember who already eluded to it, but things back in the day were much, much worse than whatever you're observing. Revan and Kun beating NJO luke? Revan being a master of all styles, many old republic sith being a match for Sidious, it was a fun read though.

What I'm seeing is Bindo saying "You guys underrate them" and then people presenting facts against this and then Bindo going "No, I'm ignoring that and will continue saying that you underrate them."

It's rather dull.

Exactly. He's got no reason to say we underrate them. We already told him Kun and Revan are in the Top 10 of most powerful .

This should mean something to him.

Originally posted by jole bindo
i mean why are all the older sith and jedi from the knights of the old republic era frequently disrespected on these forums? now i know i am new and my opinoin on the subject will probably get me blasted but why no love?

Revan can't beat Maul? Asajj shits on kun in sabers? Anakin crushes Malak and Bandon at the same time? I mean wow just wow how did we get here? i mean revan and Kun are regarded as the best of their respective time and sudenly second tire PT sith wipe their ass with them I mean Wow what part of the game is that? Right, I've read this thread, but I'll reiterate anyways.

Sidious is THE strongest Sith Lord--EVER. Canon. Equal to, but likely less than him is Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Dooku, etc. The top PT Jedi and Sith.

It's foolish to assume that just because noone is AS strong as Sidious, then they are far weaker than him. They're still very high up.

Putting all these PT guys at the top, combined with all the stats. we have about them, combined with the LACk of stats about the KOTOR characters, leads to a bit of trickiness when it comes to squaring the two timelines against one another.

But again, with the #1 cheese being in the PT, and the rest of the PT Jedi and Sith being not THAT far beneath him, it's quite justified in saying the PTers would hurt many Jedi and Sith from the Old Sith Wars.

This is old. Its been proven now for a while that the KOTOR era Jedi, while being strong for their time, are not as good as the top Jedi in the PT. Seriously thread starter, just go to the Vs. Forums, read around a bit. Its all there and I (as I'm sure many others around here) are tired of constantly repeating ourselves to debunk the KOTOR BS arguments that always run frequent. Revan was strong, no doubt, but he's no Sidious, he's no Yoda, hes not even in the same league as DE Sidious, he's not in the same universe as NJO characters. Get over it. Move on. There is nothing we really know that makes Revan and Jedi around Revan's time better then the Top PT Jedi. Anakin Skywalker would own Malak in saber combat simply because we have no real information on how good Malak was. Sure he was good for his time but that means that he could just be as good as someone like Cin Drillag, or Kit Fisto, both of whom (one of whom did) get pwned by Anakin. There is just no way of knowing how good they really are in respect to the PT Jedi and until we do then they lose to people who have been proven to be the best of the best. Thats the way debating works.

Anakin Skywalker would own Malak in saber combat simply because we have no real information on how good Malak was.

Thats the way debating works.

Not really, you can't just claim that Anakin would absolutely own Malak in saber combat simply because we don't know enough about him. Sure, you can deduce that such a thing is likely to happen, but absolutely? Not so much, so I'd suggest hunting down whoever taught you how debating works and giving them a royal b1tchslap.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Anakin Skywalker would own Malak in saber combat simply because we have no real information on how good Malak was.

Thats the way debating works.

Not really, you can't just claim that Anakin would absolutely own Malak in saber combat simply because we don't know enough about him. Sure, you can deduce that such a thing is likely to happen, but absolutely? Not so much, so I'd suggest hunting down whoever taught you how debating works and giving them a royal b1tchslap. Actually anakin WOULD own malak in a saber duel seeing that he tooled dooku who was on of the most powerful sith lords

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Anakin Skywalker would own Malak in saber combat simply because we have no real information on how good Malak was.

Thats the way debating works.

Not really, you can't just claim that Anakin would absolutely own Malak in saber combat simply because we don't know enough about him. Sure, you can deduce that such a thing is likely to happen, but absolutely? Not so much, so I'd suggest hunting down whoever taught you how debating works and giving them a royal b1tchslap.

I haven't posted on here in a while, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you.

There is no proof that Revan could come close to defeating a PT Padawan. You could deduce it, but it wouldn't be anything absolute or definitive whatsoever. Right?

Jim: Double the testosterone, double the post.

Or double the insecurity and unconfidence(is that a word), double the post.