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Some Christians, Muslims, Jews, or people other monotheistic faiths, even some Athiests, beleive that To Love God is to Hate Satan...

Or to Hate Sin...

Or to Hate Other Gods

Or to Hate anything and anyone that does not submit to, or is consistant with this God.




If God Is Love, then how can he/she/it hate anything ?



If you Love God with a pure heart, then how can you hate anything ?


Can you be filled with both Love and Hate at the same time ? If you are filled with Hatred, are you a Loving person ?

If you are a Loving Person, can you possess Hatred of any kind ?



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The Bible tells us to Hate Satan. To reject him and not trust his lies. Yet, beleivers claim that God indeed loves Satan. If God Loves Satan, then is Satan truly evil personified ?

How can God love Satan, but hate Sin, if Sin is Evil, and Satan is the personification of Evil ?


The Bible also tells us the world is wicked...to hate this world, and to strive for the higher world, Heaven.

If Earth is so evil, then we can't love it, can we ?

But if we don't love Earth, then we shouldn't take care of it. If this world is truly Satan's world, then why bother treating it with any respect ? We should just trash it.


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I just don't understand how one can love God and then have to hate something or someone else as a part of that Love.


Does the Bible truly support the act of Loving God while Hating Satan, "false idols", sin, the world, etc. ?

If not, then why do many Christians and other religious or non religious people beleive this ?

Too right! Satan doesnt get enough love from us. I nominate JIA to be the bearer of love for satan

Hate is like poison. Hate destroys the person who hates. Also, hate is controlling and will not leave room for love.

I hate people that hate

I don't think the bible says to hate Satan. Merely that one must not be overcome by temptations (which often do come from Satan).

The Bible does not say to hate Satan, but it does say to hate this world.


It is Christians with a unique intepretation of the Bible and perspective who claim that to Love God requires a Hatred of Satan.


Some Christians, however, denounce Hatred all together, and ignore Satan as part of thier beliefs.

Originally posted by darkfan76
I can speak for Christians.

You really can't though

Originally posted by darkfan76
You see. Among many groups of christians, especially the protestants, it is believed and accepted that anyone can read the Bible and make their own interpretations. That's the reason that there are many different interpretations and christian groups. Some of them make interpretation completely out of context and without any knowledge of the original languages.

The old "We can both worship in different ways. You in your way and I in God's" position, eh?

Originally posted by darkfan76
The problem is not Christianism , the problem are some christians that is a whole different thing.

To love God is to hate yourself.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You really can't though

I can speak because I know christianity.

Not really. The point is that you should know when you are only giving you're opinion and interpretation, and that you can be wrong (as I do). This sound easy but many Christians really think their own interpretations of the Bible are God's revelations. Their only back up to their claims is that they "read it and understand it from the Bible". That's not enough, I mean really, The Bible doesn't point at itself as being the only rule of authority to be followed by Christians, and it clearly forbids to make private interpretations. Again, the problem is not Christianism, but some christians.

Originally posted by Boris
To love God is to hate yourself.

Not really. IT Is to "deny yourself", that means that you must be aware that the God knows what the best for you is, even better than you do, and that you find true freedom, when you voluntarily and freely give up your will to God's will.

Originally posted by darkfan76
I can speak because I know christianity.

So yours is the one true and absolute interpretation of the Bible? Thats ridiculous and you know it.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Not really. The point is that you should know when you are only giving you're opinion and interpretation, and that you can be wrong (as I do). This sound easy but many Christians really think their own interpretations of the Bible are God's revelations. Their only back up to their claims is that they "read it and understand it from the Bible". That's not enough, I mean really, The Bible doesn't point at itself as being the only rule of authority to be followed by Christians, and it clearly forbids to make private interpretations. Again, the problem is not Christianism, but some christians.

Your words support a fundamentalist literalist reading of the Bible. The idea you're trying to get across seems to be the exact opposite.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So yours is the one true and absolute interpretation of the Bible? Thats ridiculous and you know it.



Your words support a fundamentalist literalist reading of the Bible. The idea you're trying to get across seems to be the exact opposite.

Am I speaking english? Never said "mine" is the one true an absolute intrepretation of the Biblie. In fact I said the opposite. Bible itself forbids private interpretations.

But my point is that there should be one. It doesn't make any sense to have a Book with the revelation of God, that speaks 100% truth, but that this truth can be distorted by millions of interpretations and that we cannot recognize which the good one is. There should be other source of authority, besides the Biblie to know this.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Am I speaking english? Never said "mine" is the one true an absolute intrepretation of the Biblie. In fact I said the opposite. Bible itself forbids private interpretations.

But my point is that there should be one. It doesn't make any sense to have a Book with the revelation of God, that speaks 100% truth, but that this truth can be distorted by millions of interpretations and that we cannot recognize which the good one is. There should be other source of authority, besides the Biblie to know this.

statement a) I have no opinion about how to interpret the bible

statement b) The bible must be interpreted to be 100% accurate

Originally posted by inimalist
statement a) I have no opinion about how to interpret the bible

statement b) The bible must be interpreted to be 100% accurate


Statement a) I don't think my private interpretation is absolute.

Statmente b) There should be an absolute interpretation.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Statement a) I don't think my private interpretation is absolute.

Statmente b) There should be an absolute interpretation.

the idea there there should be an absolute interpretation is an absolute interpretation about how to interpret the bible.

Originally posted by inimalist
the idea there there should be an absolute interpretation is an absolute interpretation about how to interpret the bible.



Jajaja, not really. The truth revealed by God is unique. Perfect. Flawless. The differeces amomg Chistians comes from the fact that we all make different interpretations of this unique, perfect and flawless truth.

The fact is that the truth is the truth and will always be. If you and I have a different opinion about anything, there is two possibilities:

(1) One is right, and the other is wrong
(2) Both of us are wrong.

But NEVER, both of us would be right. Is impossible that one thing is white and black and the same time. The color of your shirt doesn't depend on whether you are daltonic or not. The color of your shirt is, your perception can be wrong due to your daltonism, but the truth is that the color of your shirt is only one.

pfff just everyone forget christianity and God and become Satanists, from what ive been reading up on them they are usually far better off and Satan gives knowledge and doesnt want worship in Satanism

Because most bible-thumpers are the most intolerant people in the world... If you're not aligned with their beliefs, they think you're scum.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Jajaja, not really. The truth revealed by God is unique. Perfect. Flawless. The differeces amomg Chistians comes from the fact that we all make different interpretations of this unique, perfect and flawless truth.

The fact is that the truth is the truth and will always be. If you and I have a different opinion about anything, there is two possibilities:

(1) One is right, and the other is wrong
(2) Both of us are wrong.

But NEVER, both of us would be right. Is impossible that one thing is white and black and the same time. The color of your shirt doesn't depend on whether you are daltonic or not. The color of your shirt is, your perception can be wrong due to your daltonism, but the truth is that the color of your shirt is only one.

I'm not arguing the nature of truth. I know that the claims in the bible, if taken literally, can either be true or false.

However, my point is that since you think that the only way to interpret the bible is through a literal reading of it, you are proposing an absolutist way of interpreting the bible. The validity of that interpretation is irrelevant.

As soon as you say "When the Bible says God created the world in 7 days, it is speaking metaphorically" it becomes a non issues, simply because the nature of a metaphore or moral story is not black and white. Again, the validity of the interpretation is irrelevant.

You are proposing a method for interpreting the bible that relies specifically on the passages of of the text being the literal truth.

Originally posted by Burning thought
pfff just everyone forget christianity and God and become Satanists, from what ive been reading up on them they are usually far better off and Satan gives knowledge and doesnt want worship in Satanism

Satanism is a form of Christianity

Originally posted by inimalist
I'm not arguing the nature of truth. I know that the claims in the bible, if taken literally, can either be true or false.

However, my point is that since you think that the only way to interpret the bible is through a literal reading of it, you are proposing an absolutist way of interpreting the bible. The validity of that interpretation is irrelevant.

As soon as you say "When the Bible says God created the world in 7 days, it is speaking metaphorically" it becomes a non issues, simply because the nature of a metaphore or moral story is not black and white. Again, the validity of the interpretation is irrelevant.

You are proposing a method for interpreting the bible that relies specifically on the passages of of the text being the literal truth.

When did I say that "I think that the only way to interpret the bible is through a literal reading of it"?

You got it wrong. I clearly stated the opposite. "Bible only" makes no sense at all, it is an unclear path to be followed, since it relies on private interpretations, and it has caused more divisions among Christians.

For interpretation of the Bible you got to know the context, the original languages, the literary genres, the historical use of the language, and the ancient faith and traditions of Jews of the OT, and the faith and tradition of Christians from the beginning, 2000 years ago.

If right now, year 2007 my interpretation of certain biblical text differs from the faithm interpretation and knowledge from the Christians of 1st, 2nd, 6th, 10th century it is most likely that I'm the one getting it wrong.

Christians up to the 15th century never differed in Biblical Interpretation.

Originally posted by inimalist
Satanism is a form of Christianity



Explain that, I mean, you can back it up, Can't you?.

Since Christians worship God, and are commanded to reject Satans and his lies, temptations, etc.. How is now that you state that "Satanism is a form a Christianity"?

Satan is from the Christian religion.

Originally posted by darkfan76


Explain that, I mean, you can back it up, Can't you?.

Since Christians worship God, and are commanded to reject Satans and his lies, temptations, etc.. How is now that you state that "Satanism is a form a Christianity"?

It accepts the Christian God as existent...the divinity of Jesus even. Just prefers the other side.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Satan is from the Christian religion.

Wrong. The references to Satan, Lucifer, Belzeebul, etc. comes from the Jewish religion.

Other religions in the world also mentions demons, etc..

Originally posted by darkfan76
Wrong. The references to Satan, Lucifer, Belzeebul, etc. comes from the Jewish religion.

Other religions in the world also mentions demons, etc..

The Christian religion is based off of Judaism.

Also, many Satanists mean the Christian God.

Satanists simply belive its Satan who is the right side, he isnt a horned demon in Satanism, hes a golden Angel as are all the demons in the religion and he simply wants us to know knowledge that God is apprently keeping from us, apparently God is losing all his power in Satanism

Originally posted by Burning thought
Satanists simply belive its Satan who is the right side, he isnt a horned demon in Satanism, hes a golden Angel as are all the demons in the religion and he simply wants us to know knowledge that God is apprently keeping from us, apparently God is losing all his power in Satanism

Yeah right

He certainly was an Angel, I give you that.

"Apparently", yes. Thats the way he attracts people to him. Seductions, tempetations, lies etc. (For satanists, and for regular people)

Truth is he was already defeated by Christ in the Cross. He knows he's lost, he just want to lose as many people as he can with him.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The Christian religion is based off of Judaism.

Also, many Satanists mean the Christian God.

Yeah so Satanism would be the opposit to Christianism, not a "form of Christianism" Got It?

Of course. I'm usually filled with hatred (a lot of my family has died and I'm only 16) but at the same time, I can suddenly feel an amazing amount of love for A) My parents, B) My girlfriend.

Love and hate may be opposites, but nevertheless, you can feel both simultaneously, although at times certain ones take over more.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Yeah right

He certainly was an Angel, I give you that.

"Apparently", yes. Thats the way he attracts people to him. Seductions, tempetations, lies etc. (For satanists, and for regular people)

Truth is he was already defeated by Christ in the Cross. He knows he's lost, he just want to lose as many people as he can with him.

Yet Satan doesn't exist.. and none of this ever happend.

Satan would kick Holy ass if he existed.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Yeah right

He certainly was an Angel, I give you that.

"Apparently", yes. Thats the way he attracts people to him. Seductions, tempetations, lies etc. (For satanists, and for regular people)

Truth is he was already defeated by Christ in the Cross. He knows he's lost, he just want to lose as many people as he can with him.


well that would be the narrow minded view of a christian or a lover of God, theres no reason why Satan could never be stronger than God, just because the bible says so doesnt mean it is

Satan in Satanism is stronger than God, God in Christianity is stronger than Satan, either could be right, since reading through both sides, i feel Satans religion is far nicer and has a lot of good parts about it, more so than christianity, in Satanism, its God who is the liar and the fool, covering over humanities birthright to power and evolution with lies

and Boris why do you bother, most of this forum is filled with debates "supposing" they excisted, idont belive in any of it but theres no point going into forums saying the same "none of it excists" over and over without looking at any other points, you may as well save yourself some time and not bother coming in here

Well is God is God.
The rest, including Satan, are not. Ain't that enough?



So you find in Satanism, what you'd love to hear? don't you?

It is like politicians, you know, when they are campaigning, they are capable of offer anything in order to get the attention, but the aftemath.. well I guess you know what I'm talking about,

Cristian's message is usually very unconfortable, and makes us feel uneasy, Isn't? "Love your enemies", "put the other cheek", "true religion is feed the starving, etc.." " Shall man not separate what God has joined", Yes, christianism is not cool at all.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Well is God is God.
The rest, including Satan, are not. Ain't that enough?



So you find in Satanism, what you'd love to hear? don't you?

It is like politicians, you know, when they are campaigning, they are capable of offer anything in order to get the attention, but the aftemath.. well I guess you know what I'm talking about,

Cristian's message is usually very unconfortable, and makes us feel uneasy, Isn't? "Love your enemies", "put the other cheek", "true religion is feed the starving, etc.." " Shall man not separate what God has joined", Yes, christianism is not cool at all.

i dont understand your first comment, what do you mean by "well is God is God and the rest including Satan are not, God is just a title.

in Satanism i hear things that are good hearted, "i only want people to evolve and gain knowledge"-Satan

wheras God its more about "prey to me or ill throw you into hell" or its more like "discover my son jesus and you are forgiven" a lot of forcefulness is in chrsitinaity, Satanism is "i would like" not "do it or youll burn in hell"

Christian messages are just common sense that anyone could come up with, love your enemies? thats a very ridiculous thing, they wouldnt be your enemies if you loved them, a human cannot love an enemy, its impossible and feed the starving, what brilliant master of imagination came up with that one, common sense

Why would you have to hate something, to love something else?

I think that the original post might be going by the philosophy that everything that exists has to have an opposite. Remember the Discworld concepts of everything having an opposite rather than just an absense, making anti-light, anti-heat, anti-noise and anti-crime.

If you haven't experienced hardship, how can you experience pleasure? I don't think these concepts apply to love and hatred very well though.

Yes there is, God created him, he can uncreate him, easily.



yes it does. In your thread I meant to point out when you said that the Bible is just hyperbole that that would be impossible. If you were to take into account the nature of God and of Satan as Christians put it it would be that God never lies, so anything he put into the Bible would have to be ultimately true.



Obviously...



How so? According to the religions Satan rules Earth, currently. Look at the state that the Earth is in right now. I don't understand how this is possibly nicer then what God had intended, as opposed to what Satan intended.



So... does the Satanist book basically retcon EVERYTHING that happened in the Bible, because if it doesn't then it's obvious who is right and who is not.



He's a troll. That's what Trolls do.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Yes there is, God created him, he can uncreate him, easily.



yes it does. In your thread I meant to point out when you said that the Bible is just hyperbole that that would be impossible. If you were to take into account the nature of God and of Satan as Christians put it it would be that God never lies, so anything he put into the Bible would have to be ultimately true.



Obviously...



How so? According to the religions Satan rules Earth, currently. Look at the state that the Earth is in right now. I don't understand how this is possibly nicer then what God had intended, as opposed to what Satan intended.



So... does the Satanist book basically retcon EVERYTHING that happened in the Bible, because if it doesn't then it's obvious who is right and who is not.



He's a troll. That's what Trolls do.

my mum and dad created me, they cannot uncreate me...
that is a foolish suggestion, because something can create something in no way can it be proved that God could uncreate him, also the idea of God being all powerful is a Christian one

and yes if you take it the way Christians put it, the way Satanists put it is diffrent,two diffrent religiosn say diffrent things

your wrong about Satan ruling Earth in religions, in Christianity they may think he does, but in Satanists, Satan doesnt rule earth, he rules hell and thats it, he merely wants to help humans who in Satanist worship are his creations, not Gods, in Satanist religion, God is merely an outsider to the world who is trying to get people to bow to him and offer him their minds

the Al Jilwah (satans book) states many interesting beliefs, many beliefs state Chrstianity as a lie and have some pretty good arguments, also Satanists belive they directly communicate to Satan and other demons through telepathy and meditation who actually strengthan and protect them in return wheras it seems in Christianity your praying to a being just because it supposedly created you, it doesnt seem to do anything else especially proof of its excistence, at least Satan speaks to you

So, the basic summary is this. Satan in the Satanic religion is what God is in Christianity?

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
So, the basic summary is this. Satan in the Satanic religion is what God is in Christianity?


slightly correct, in power, only in Satanic religion, he doesnt really want worship, hes interested in knowledge and evolution of the human race rather than taking from us, he wants to give knowledge

but his power seems similiar and such

Okay, I got you.

So, this whole debate is really pointless. I believe in one thing, you believe in one thing, and other people believe in different things.

ofcourse its pointless, although remember i dont belive in anything to do with a God or religion as such, i belive there is some kind of spiritual, but wether it excsists or its to do with the human mind i dont know

ime just standing up for Satanist religion

Okay, then.

..

Starcraft would still beat Warcraft though ermm

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Okay, then.

..

Starcraft would still beat Warcraft though ermm

hehe, starcraft 2 will defo beat warcraft, at least up to WoW, however the amount of fans it has is incredible so idont think it would faulter

Originally posted by darkfan76


Explain that, I mean, you can back it up, Can't you?.

Since Christians worship God, and are commanded to reject Satans and his lies, temptations, etc.. How is now that you state that "Satanism is a form a Christianity"?

Zeus and Hades

figures of the same religious tradition or of completely different religions?

Originally posted by inimalist
Zeus and Hades

figures of the same religious tradition or of completely different religions?



Ja,Ja. Satan is a figure of Christianism. That doesn't make worshipping Satan a form of Christianism.

Chiristian: Believer, follower of Christ as God, along with the Father and the Holly Spirit..
Do you believe and follow Christ? No, then you are not a Christian,

Originally posted by darkfan76
Ja,Ja. Satan is a figure of Christianism. That doesn't make worshipping Satan a form of Christianism.

Chiristian: Believer, follower of Christ as God, along with the Father and the Holly Spirit..
Do you believe and follow Christ? No, then you are not a Christian, Then Mormons are Christians though.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Then Mormons are Christians though.

Not really. You see. They don't believe in Jesus as God. The same with the Witnesses.

well, if you describe "sect" as "religion" then you might be correct

however, once you stop being ethnocentric (ie, stop falling into the illusion of in-group variance ) * it becomes apparent that the same mythologies over time create new belief systems. However, given how we classify ancient religions, these dissimilar systems are still the same mythology, with variance in interpretation. To see modern religion as any different is to place too much signifigance on what you as an individual believe.

Once the Abrahamic God is replaced by oth religions, I'm sure people will have a tendency to see Judaism, Christianity and Islam as 3 offshoots of a shared mythology.

So, lets hear it for ethnocentrism!

Originally posted by Burning thought
Satanists simply belive its Satan who is the right side, he isnt a horned demon in Satanism, hes a golden Angel as are all the demons in the religion and he simply wants us to know knowledge that God is apprently keeping from us, apparently God is losing all his power in Satanism

You don't seem to understand Satanism truly, even tough you are one.

LaVey (founder of Church of Satan) used Satan as a metaphor for the way he thought, which was very open-minded and fair way of thinking. They do not acknowledge the existance of God or Satan.

Darkfan, does loving God also require a hatred for Satan and his kind ? JIA seems to claim so.

But JIA is a zealot, so y'know.

Originally posted by darkfan76
what he said

so what you are saying is that the worship of Zeus was a religion different from the worship of Dionysis(sp)?

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
But JIA is a zealot, so y'know.


true

Originally posted by inimalist
so what you are saying is that the worship of Zeus was a religion different from the worship of Dionysis(sp)?

Not at all, different cases Politheism: Same religion, many gods to worship

Monotheism: Only one God to worship. In Christianity that one God, is Christ, the Father and the Holly Spirit, if you worship something else, you are not Christian. Simple

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Darkfan, does loving God also require a hatred for Satan and his kind ? JIA seems to claim so.

Not hating him. But rejecting ans staying away his lies and temptations that lead us to sin (only tempting us, we have full responsability for our sins). God is uncapable of hating and won't ask us to hate. It is Satan who decided irrevocably to hate God.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Not at all, different cases Politheism: Same religion, many gods to worship

Monotheism: Only one God to worship. In Christianity that one God, is Christ, the Father and the Holly Spirit, if you worship something else, you are not Christian. Simple

someone else worshiping a figure out of the Christian faith automatically makes that person a God.

thus, christianity is a polytheism simply because it has two Gods to worship, gods as defined by the fact that people worship them.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Some Christians, Muslims, Jews, or people other monotheistic faiths, even some Athiests, beleive that To Love God is to Hate Satan...

Or to Hate Sin...

Or to Hate Other Gods

Or to Hate anything and anyone that does not submit to, or is consistant with this God.




If God Is Love, then how can he/she/it hate anything ?



If you Love God with a pure heart, then how can you hate anything ?


Can you be filled with both Love and Hate at the same time ? If you are filled with Hatred, are you a Loving person ?

If you are a Loving Person, can you possess Hatred of any kind ?



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The Bible tells us to Hate Satan. To reject him and not trust his lies. Yet, beleivers claim that God indeed loves Satan. If God Loves Satan, then is Satan truly evil personified ?

How can God love Satan, but hate Sin, if Sin is Evil, and Satan is the personification of Evil ?


The Bible also tells us the world is wicked...to hate this world, and to strive for the higher world, Heaven.

If Earth is so evil, then we can't love it, can we ?

But if we don't love Earth, then we shouldn't take care of it. If this world is truly Satan's world, then why bother treating it with any respect ? We should just trash it.


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I just don't understand how one can love God and then have to hate something or someone else as a part of that Love.


Does the Bible truly support the act of Loving God while Hating Satan, "false idols", sin, the world, etc. ?

If not, then why do many Christians and other religious or non religious people beleive this ?

Only real Christians hate everything other than god.


Just like they think that Harry Potter is making Kids delve into Black occult magic.

honestly i dont get it. sumthing as POSITIIVE as harry potter. how can any1 brandish it as evil. if any1's read the last novel. theyl agree.

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
You don't seem to understand Satanism truly, even tough you are one.

LaVey (founder of Church of Satan) used Satan as a metaphor for the way he thought, which was very open-minded and fair way of thinking. They do not acknowledge the existance of God or Satan.

ime not a Satanist, and there are diffrent types of Satanism

the one ime talking off is

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

although they are a little crooked since they say satan is an angel yet still use demonic pgan symbols