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The Omnipotent Ghost of Battles Past has decided to replay some old fights/encounters.

For the purposes of this Gauntlet, the Ghost erases previous encounters between Apocalypse and his opponent in any particular round i.e. try to take into account both characters' shown capabilities in their other appearances, rather than in their encounters with each other - where either may or may not have fought to the best of their ability.

In no particular order Apocalypse and an opponent are transported to opposite sides of a large uninhabited city environment, given 2 minutes of defensive prep, then made to fight. After each fight Apocalypse is fully revived and transported to the next battle.

1. Namor
2. Hulk
3. Mr Sinister
4. Dracula
5. Xavier (telepathic battle)
6. Black Bolt
7. Ikaris
8. Loki
9. High Evolutionary

Who wins and by how many/10 for each fight?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Omnipotent Ghost of Battles Past has decided to replay some old fights/encounters.

For the purposes of this Gauntlet, the Ghost erases previous encounters between Apocalypse and his opponent in any particular round i.e. try to take into account both characters' shown capabilities in their other appearances, rather than in their encounters with each other - where either may or may not have fought to the best of their ability.

In no particular order Apocalypse and an opponent are transported to opposite sides of a large uninhabited city environment, given 2 minutes of defensive prep, then made to fight.

1. Namor
2. Hulk
3. Mr Sinister
4. Dracula
5. Xavier (telepathic battle)
6. Black Bolt
7. Ikaris
8. Loki
9. High Evolutionary

Who wins and by how many/10 for each fight?

1. Apocalypse 10/10

2. Apocalypse 9-10/10

3. Apocalypse 9/10

4. This is a tough one... 5/10, maybe 6/10 for Apocalypse

5. Xavier 7-8/10

6. BB 8/10

7. Ikaris 7-8/10

8. Loki 8/10

9. HE 10/10

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Omnipotent Ghost of Battles Past has decided to replay some old fights/encounters.

For the purposes of this Gauntlet, the Ghost erases previous encounters between Apocalypse and his opponent in any particular round i.e. try to take into account both characters' shown capabilities in their other appearances, rather than in their encounters with each other - where either may or may not have fought to the best of their ability.

In no particular order Apocalypse and an opponent are transported to opposite sides of a large uninhabited city environment, given 2 minutes of defensive prep, then made to fight. After each fight Apocalypse is fully revived and transported to the next battle.

1. Namor
2. Hulk
3. Mr Sinister
4. Dracula
5. Xavier (telepathic battle)
6. Black Bolt
7. Ikaris
8. Loki
9. High Evolutionary

Who wins and by how many/10 for each fight? Apoc 10/10
Apoc 7/10... maybe...
Apoc 10/10, although I can't really see him put Sinister down.
Apoc 6/10
Sexavier 7/10
BB 10/10
Ikaris 7-8/10
Loki 10/10
HE 10/10

Narcissist that I am, my take on my thread.

1. Apocalypse 10/10
2. Apocalypse 9-10/10
3. Apocalypse 10/10, although it would be a war of attrition.
4. 5/10 each split, or edge to Apocalypse
5. Xavier 9/10, telepathy only battle Apocalypse has nothing on Xavier.
6. Black Bolt 7-8/10
7. Ikaris 7-8/10
8. Loki 9/10
9. High Evolutionary 10/10

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Narcissist that I am, my take on my thread.

1. Apocalypse 10/10
2. Apocalypse 9-10/10
3. Apocalypse 10/10, although it would be a war of attrition.
4. 5/10 each split, or edge to Apocalypse
5. Xavier 9/10, telepathy only battle Apocalypse has nothing on Xavier.
6. Black Bolt 7-8/10
7. Ikaris 7-8/10
8. Loki 9/10
9. High Evolutionary 10/10

That's... pretty damn close to what I had.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's... pretty damn close to what I had. Wow... we're like the Wonder Twins... form of a dragon!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wow... we're like the Wonder Twins... form of a dragon!

Form of.... water. disgust

Originally posted by batdude123
Form of.... water. disgust Yeah... that's right, I gave you the crap twin.

I don't wanna play Wonder Twins anymore!!!

"My bother Bradley and I used to always pretend that we were The Wonder Twins -- he would always become "Form of a Dragon!" and then I would want to be a dragon too. But he said I had to be something made of water. So I'd be like, "Shape of an Ice Dragon!" And then... he would say that I was copying him and he'd breathe on me and I'd have to melt, but it was still... so... awesome."

I don't know how can you give Ikaris, Loki and HE 10/10, while they couldn't win, man, that automatically can't be 10/10.

Ok, your opinion.

xmarksthespot, you are known, everything Apocaylpse did, was something wrong with others.

1. Apocalypse 10/10
2. Apocalypse 10/10
3. Apocalypse 10/10
4. Apocalypse 10/10
5. Apocalypse 10/10
6. Apocalypse 10/10
7. Apocalypse 8/10
8. Apocalypse 7-8/10
9. Apocalypse 5/10

LMAO at 4-9.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I don't know how can you give Ikaris, Loki and HE 10/10, while they couldn't win, man, that automatically can't be 10/10.

Ok, your opinion.

xmarksthespot, you are known, everything Apocaylpse did, was something wrong with others.

1. Apocalypse 10/10
2. Apocalypse 10/10
3. Apocalypse 10/10
4. Apocalypse 10/10
5. Apocalypse 10/10
6. Apocalypse 10/10
7. Apocalypse 8/10
8. Apocalypse 7-8/10
9. Apocalypse 5/10
What a ****in dumbass Apocalypse fanboy.

Oops I remembered another to add to the list.

10. Magneto

dodgy

Originally posted by batdude123
What a ****in dumbass Apocalypse fanboy.

What a **** stupid hater of Apocalypse.

You give to BB, Ikaris and Loki 8-10/10, while they couldn't do shit to him, when they faced. You must be stupid.
Or for Dracula 5-6, **** it. What the **** can Dracula do to FP Apocalypse.
He was killed by weaken Apocalypse.

You ****ing dumbass.

"For the purposes of this Gauntlet, the Ghost erases previous encounters between Apocalypse and his opponent in any particular round i.e. try to take into account both characters' shown capabilities in their other appearances, rather than in their encounters with each other - where either may or may not have fought to the best of their ability."

Learn to read, Cujo.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"For the purposes of this Gauntlet, the Ghost erases previous encounters between Apocalypse and his opponent in any particular round i.e. try to take into account both characters' shown capabilities in their other appearances, rather than in their encounters with each other - where either may or may not have fought to the best of their ability."

Learn to read, Cujo.

Aha, ok.

Originally posted by batdude123
What a ****in dumbass Apocalypse fanboy.

What a ****ing retarded bat fanboy?

Apocalypse has already beat Ikaris and Loki. Black Bolt's scream didn't even affect him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"For the purposes of this Gauntlet, the Ghost erases previous encounters between Apocalypse and his opponent in any particular round i.e. try to take into account both characters' shown capabilities in their other appearances, rather than in their encounters with each other - where either may or may not have fought to the best of their ability."

Learn to read, Cujo.

So basically. "for this fight remove Apocalypses strongest feats"

Originally posted by llagrok
Apocalypse has already beat Ikaris and Loki.

ermm

Originally posted by llagrok
Black Bolt's scream didn't even affect him.

That was a whisper...

Originally posted by llagrok
So basically. "for this fight remove Apocalypses strongest feats" Only encounters with each other are removed for respective battling pair.

Example
#1:
Past encounter between Namor and Apocalypse is removed.

#8:
Past encounter between Loki and Apocalypse is removed.

#9:
Past encounter between the High Evolutionary and Apocalypse is removed.

The purpose being to take into account the other showings of the characters fighting - rather than cite an encounter where either character in any particular pairing may or may not have been portrayed well.

On an aside: Fighting Ikaris, or Loki, or the High Evolutionary in itself isn't "a feat." Whatever he did in those fights, impressive or not, to counteract whatever the opponent did, impressive or not, would be the actual feats. For an analogous situation occasionally someone will write "Hulk fights Thor." or "Hulk fights Silver Surfer." as if that were a feat.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"My bother Bradley and I used to always pretend that we were The Wonder Twins -- he would always become "Form of a Dragon!" and then I would want to be a dragon too. But he said I had to be something made of water. So I'd be like, "Shape of an Ice Dragon!" And then... he would say that I was copying him and he'd breathe on me and I'd have to melt, but it was still... so... awesome."

Elliot,Woot!!

Also,i agree with you and Batdude,though unfortunately they were'nt the wonder triplets...

Originally posted by llagrok
What a ****ing retarded bat fanboy?

Apocalypse has already beat Ikaris and Loki. Black Bolt's scream didn't even affect him.
You can be a Bat fanboy, but you can't be retarded for being one.

I mean, Ikaris's only showing is getting beat by Apoc... ermm
Plus, even if we take the Loki fight out of context. Loki says in fights he's been in when fighting physical, that he is weaker than the person by far (mainly Thor)...
Loki isn't physical, and him not managing to break out of a hold, doesn't really mean anything...
If we take it out of context of course.

Black Bolt's whisper/breathing didn't affect a powered up Apocalypse...
It also didn't affect Cyclops as well...

Originally posted by Tyrant
Black Bolt's whisper/breathing didn't affect a powered up Apocalypse...

Powered up? Apocalypse was going to absorb the X-Factor's life-energies to power himself up...

If he was already powered up, then I don't see why he needed the X-Factor in the first place...

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Powered up? Apocalypse was going to absorb the X-Factor's life-energies to power himself up...

If he was already powered up, then I don't see why he needed the X-Factor in the first place... By the machines connecting to him. Maybe he just doesn't like walking around with machines...

Plus it's obvious from the showing he was more powerful...

He looked like he should have been trying to burn some Calories... rather than gain them... ermmhappy

Originally posted by Tyrant
By the machines connecting to him.

He was connected to machinery that was going to absorb their life-energies into him...

It didn't say anywhere that the machinery had already powered him up...

He even commented on how powerful he actually will become once he had absorbed their life-energies...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/apocrebornx68.png

Originally posted by Tyrant
Plus it's obvious from the showing he was more powerful...

How?

... err... aren't they in the machine being drained... and ergo powering him up... thus the pained expressions on their faces.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
He was connected to machinery that was going to absorb their life-energies into him...

It didn't say anywhere that the machinery had already powered him up...

He even commented on how powerful he actually will become once he had absorbed their life-energies...





How? He only says that his power will be reborn.

Hold on ya dildo, I'm looking for something right now. I'll get back to you shortly.

By taking Black Bolt's attack? You know... Thor level guy?

... oh and that thing Cyclops says on the next page about "conduits" from the machine "re-energizing" him. That kinda indicates to me the machine did something too before the conduits were severed... immediately prior to them attacking him...

Damn imageshack isn't working...
Anyway...

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/?action=view&current=power-up.jpg

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
... err... aren't they in the machine being drained... and ergo powering him up... thus the pained expressions on their faces.

Seems so...

But Black Bolt and the Inhumans jumped in and freed them right after when it had started anyway (on the next page). So Apocalypse probably didn't absorb that much:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/blackinhumansfreexfactor.png

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
... oh and that thing Cyclops says on the next page about "conduits" from the machine "re-energizing" him. That kinda indicates to me the machine did something too before the conduits were severed... immediately prior to them attacking him...

(Not on the next page )

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/cykeandrestdestroyapocs.png


Originally posted by Tyrant
He only says that his power will be reborn.

And a bunch of other things like being able to wreck chaos throughout time and space....

Originally posted by Tyrant
By taking Black Bolt's attack? You know... Thor level guy?

But how powerful is Black Bolt's whisper?

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
And a bunch of other things like being able to wreck chaos throughout time and space....



But how powerful is Black Bolt's whisper? So, anything Apoc says is a lie?
Good... good.

Powerful enough to make the other side of a planet erupt in volcanoes when he whispers into the ground.

Powerful enough to KO Savage Hulk... twice, and almost destroy the city they're in.

Powerful enough to KO Glads twice...

But not powerful enough to dent Apoc, and affect Cyke, I'm afraid... ermm

Originally posted by Tyrant
So, anything Apoc says is a lie?
Good... good.



Originally posted by Tyrant
Powerful enough to make the other side of a planet erupt in volcanoes when he whispers into the ground.

Powerful enough to KO Savage Hulk... twice, and almost destroy the city they're in.

Powerful enough to KO Glads twice...

But not powerful enough to dent Apoc, and affect Cyke, I'm afraid... ermm

Ok, so he breathed on him then. 313

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Well, he isn't wreaking havoc throughout time and space, just by having his powers reborn... so...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


1. Namor
2. Hulk
3. Mr Sinister
4. Dracula
5. Xavier (telepathic battle)
6. Black Bolt
7. Ikaris
8. Loki
9. High Evolutionary

Who wins and by how many/10 for each fight?

1. Apoc 7/10
2. Apoc 8/10
3. Apoc 9/10
4. Apoc 8/10
5. Xavier/Apoc 5/10
6. Black Bolt 7/10
7. Ikaris 6/10
8. Loki 8/10
9. HE 10/10

How is Ikaris going to do better than BB?

Originally posted by Tyrant
Well, he isn't wreaking havoc throughout time and space, just by having his powers reborn... so...

Uh?

He was going to become more powerful....

Originally posted by Tyrant
How is Ikaris going to do better than BB?

says who?

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Uh?

He was going to become more powerful.... So, why did he say his own power, and strength will be reborn, just from them?

1. Apoc-8/10
2. Apoc-8/10
3. Apoc-10/10-he did create him after all
4. Apoc-9/10
5. Xavier 7/10
6. Black Bolt-7/10
7. Apoc-7/10
8. Apoc-6/10
9. High Evolutionary-7/10
10 Apoc-8/10-(this is for Magneto)

Originally posted by Tyrant
So, why did he say his own power, and strength will be reborn, just from them?

By "reborn". Apocalypse seems to mean that his own powers will simply become much, much greater and different....

Originally posted by boriquaking55
5. Xavier/Apoc 5/10 This is Xavier commandeering the mind of the people of Earth to drive off the Z'nox.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5315/z1cv4.jpg
http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/6351/z2fy6.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3699/z1oe3.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2963/z3js4.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7892/z2rl6.jpg

This is Xavier transmitting the thoughts and emotions of the population of the Skrull throneworld, to Galactus - which imo, would entail bypassing Galactus' mental defenses.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8597/05lh7.jpg

This is Xavier harnessing the mental energy on a planetary scale again, gathering the mental energy from Selandiar, and it's used to attack the mind of Ego, the Living Planet.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3601/0maximumsecurity32jk8.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7658/0maximumsecurity33pe7.jpg

This is Xavier taking Namor and Strange into the Collective Unconsciousness of the Universe.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7713/newavengersilluminati00yi0.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4674/newavengersilluminati00rl0.jpg

This is Xavier battling Dark Phoenix.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/75/uncannyxmen19800813614mf5.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/7321/uncannyxmen19800813615mv5.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6250/uncannyxmen19800813616jj9.jpg

This is Xavier alongside Thanos and Adam Warlock fighting the Goddess with his telepathic powers.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0615vo8.jpg
http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0616ip8.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades061718jh1.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0619ff8.jpg

This is Xavier psiblasting Cassandra Nova, in utero, before he was even born.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9338/xmen12117dt7.jpg

Xavier recalling how he learned of the Z'nox, by telepathically scanning stars for life:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7262/z4lo7.jpg
Again telepathy traversing half a star system to locate Kitty and Nightcrawler.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7262/z4lo7.jpg

Onslaught is the result of Xavier's powers combined with Magneto.
Cassandra Nova is the result of Xavier's powers.

This is Emma Frost psiblasting Nate Grey, a far superior telepath.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2609/xman05003yp8rc0.jpg
As an example that telepaths are not innately immune to telepathy.
And Emma seemingly using telekinesis.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1714/newmutantsannual0433be5.jpg
As an example of one time feats of powers characters don't normally have that are generally ignored when looking at a character overall.

This is Apocalypse stating he needs Cable to take him to the Astral Plane.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3945/58182587fr3.jpg
Indicating he doesn't actually have telepathy at all?
Reaffirming the Jean incident where he reacted to telepathy as a novelty.

So... what exactly would make it 5/10...?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This is Apocalypse stating he needs Cable to take him to the Astral Plane.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3945/58182587fr3.jpg
Indicating he doesn't actually have telepathy at all?

He has telepathy, since he has displayed mental feats.


That he can't enter the Astral plane is although pretty weird...

Doesn't basically anyone who possess telepathy have the ability to enter the Astral Plane?

But then again, that issue was written by Jeph Loeb, so I suppose that's an excuse to just ignore that... ermm

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
He has telepathy, since he has displayed mental feats.


That he can't enter the Astral plane is although pretty weird...

Doesn't basically anyone who possess telepathy have the ability to enter the Astral Plane?

But then again, that issue was written by Jeph Loeb, so I suppose that's an excuse to just ignore that... ermm


Not that anyone cares but usually in the marvel roleplaying system(old one) astral projection is a seperate power from telepathy

Even with telepathy you would still need to at least learn how to enter the astral plane...just my opinion...i think cable had to be taught by jean to enter the astral plane

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
He has telepathy, since he has displayed mental feats. A mind reading feat... and a (possible) psiblast. The latter inadmissible in this thread anyway for number 5.
Originally posted by Evil_Ash
That he can't enter the Astral plane is although pretty weird...

Doesn't basically anyone who possess telepathy have the ability to enter the Astral Plane? I haven't generally seen low level telepaths enter the Astral Plane...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A mind reading feat... and a (possible) psiblast.

He mind blasted Jean Grey, didn't he?

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
He mind blasted Jean Grey, didn't he? He reflected her powers with mental defenses... commenting on her type of power as a novelty to him... ermm

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This is Xavier commandeering the mind of the people of Earth to drive off the Z'nox.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5315/z1cv4.jpg
http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/6351/z2fy6.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3699/z1oe3.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2963/z3js4.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7892/z2rl6.jpg

This is Xavier transmitting the thoughts and emotions of the population of the Skrull throneworld, to Galactus - which imo, would entail bypassing Galactus' mental defenses.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8597/05lh7.jpg

This is Xavier harnessing the mental energy on a planetary scale again, gathering the mental energy from Selandiar, and it's used to attack the mind of Ego, the Living Planet.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3601/0maximumsecurity32jk8.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7658/0maximumsecurity33pe7.jpg

This is Xavier taking Namor and Strange into the Collective Unconsciousness of the Universe.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7713/newavengersilluminati00yi0.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4674/newavengersilluminati00rl0.jpg

This is Xavier battling Dark Phoenix.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/75/uncannyxmen19800813614mf5.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/7321/uncannyxmen19800813615mv5.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6250/uncannyxmen19800813616jj9.jpg

This is Xavier alongside Thanos and Adam Warlock fighting the Goddess with his telepathic powers.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0615vo8.jpg
http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0616ip8.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades061718jh1.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0619ff8.jpg

This is Xavier psiblasting Cassandra Nova, in utero, before he was even born.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9338/xmen12117dt7.jpg

Xavier recalling how he learned of the Z'nox, by telepathically scanning stars for life:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7262/z4lo7.jpg
Again telepathy traversing half a star system to locate Kitty and Nightcrawler.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7262/z4lo7.jpg

Onslaught is the result of Xavier's powers combined with Magneto.
Cassandra Nova is the result of Xavier's powers.

This is Emma Frost psiblasting Nate Grey, a far superior telepath.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2609/xman05003yp8rc0.jpg
As an example that telepaths are not innately immune to telepathy.
And Emma seemingly using telekinesis.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1714/newmutantsannual0433be5.jpg
As an example of one time feats of powers characters don't normally have that are generally ignored when looking at a character overall.

This is Apocalypse stating he needs Cable to take him to the Astral Plane.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3945/58182587fr3.jpg
Indicating he doesn't actually have telepathy at all?
Reaffirming the Jean incident where he reacted to telepathy as a novelty.

So... what exactly would make it 5/10...?

good post - I give Xavier solid majority. I forgot how badass he was

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
commenting on her type of power as a novelty to him... ermm

No, he didn't.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/psionic53.png

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
No, he didn't. "He's throwing everything back at me" ergo reflected her powers. "So you have the power to see into men's minds. To influence them... to control them. Surely there is no greater power than that. This is something I shall prepare for." Ergo reacting to telepathy as a novelty to him and commenting on it as such. At least that's how I interpretted it.

Also her "everything" should have floored her when reflected back at her so I don't see how it was her "everything."

Originally posted by Xplosive
What a **** stupid hater of Apocalypse.

You give to BB, Ikaris and Loki 8-10/10, while they couldn't do shit to him, when they faced. You must be stupid.
Or for Dracula 5-6, **** it. What the **** can Dracula do to FP Apocalypse.
He was killed by weaken Apocalypse.

You ****ing dumbass.



I don't hate Apocalype, you're just his resident dick sucker around here.

Originally posted by llagrok
What a ****ing retarded bat fanboy?

Apocalypse has already beat Ikaris and Loki. Black Bolt's scream didn't even affect him.

So you agree with Xplosive saying Apocalypse beats Black Bolt 10/10?

You're just as big of a dumbass as he is, then. And thus, you're opinion lacks credibility.

Originally posted by batdude123


I don't hate Apocalype, you're just his resident dick sucker around here.



So you agree with Xplosive saying Apocalypse beats Black Bolt 10/10?

You're just as big of a dumbass as he is, then. And thus, you're opinion lacks credibility.

Look, f*aggot.

Only time when BB and Apocalypse faced, counted as a canon, is in X-Factor, and BB was joke to him.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Look, f*aggot.

Only time when BB and Apocalypse faced, counted as a canon, is in X-Factor, and BB was joke to him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"For the purposes of this Gauntlet, the Ghost erases previous encounters between Apocalypse and his opponent in any particular round i.e. try to take into account both characters' shown capabilities in their other appearances, rather than in their encounters with each other - where either may or may not have fought to the best of their ability."

Learn to read, Cujo.



Anyway, regarding that circumstance:

1. Apocalypse was powered up.

2. Black Bolt used a whisper, not a scream.

3. That's one of the lowest showings Black Bolt's ever had, so for you to solely base BB's power level off of that instance is enormously disingenuous. It also shows an extreme level of biasness.

So, if you want to sit there and claim that Apocalypse at his regular levels is more durable than Savage Hulk and Gladiator, then be my guest. However, I sincerely doubt you'll be getting a lot of support for those ludicrous ideas.

Also, if Black Bolt screamed at Apocalypse, he'd be vaporized. Period.

Originally posted by batdude123


Anyway, regarding that circumstance:

1. Apocalypse was powered up.

2. Black Bolt used a whisper, not a scream.

3. That's one of the lowest showings Black Bolt's ever had, so for you to solely base BB's power level off of that instance is enormously disingenuous. It also shows an extreme level of biasness.

So, if you want to sit there and claim that Apocalypse at his regular levels is more durable than Savage Hulk and Gladiator, then be my guest. However, I sincerely doubt you'll be getting a lot of support for those ludicrous ideas.

Also, if Black Bolt screamed at Apocalypse, he'd be vaporized. Period.

You mean like how the Hulk was vaporized

I recall Cyclops being capable of injuring WWH a little, which means that he should be more than capable of injuring the Savage Hulk. BUT, when he attacked Apocalypse, nothing happened. Hmmm, interesting

We've also seen Cable pour everything he has into trying to take down Apocalypse, not that it did much good.

1. That was a relatively minor power up and Black Bolt whispered at Apocalypse AFTER he had freed the other inhumans didn't he? That should've ended Apocalypse's powerup immediately. That's my intepretation, I might be wrong.

3. Lowest showings for his whisper? His whisper isn't THAT powerful, it wasn't even able to inflict any proper damage during the Silent War. His scream is incredbily powerful, no doubt. His whisper however shouldn't be enough to take out Apocalypse. Take a look at BB's latest "whisper showings"

I don't think that Apocalypse would beat Black Bolt, but you're crossing the line. No reason to badmouth Apoc because he would beat mags.

Originally posted by llagrok
You mean like how the Hulk was vaporized

I recall Cyclops being capable of injuring WWH a little, which means that he should be more than capable of injuring the Savage Hulk. BUT, when he attacked Apocalypse, nothing happened. Hmmm, interesting

So you want to claim that Apocalypse is more durable than an enhanced Hulk?

Besides, you and I both know that WWH is a jobberfest for anybody not named "Hulk."

And I guess Apocalypse has to dodge tables thrown at him.

Originally posted by llagrok
1. That was a relatively minor power up and Black Bolt whispered at Apocalypse AFTER he had freed the other inhumans didn't he? That should've ended Apocalypse's powerup immediately. That's my intepretation, I might be wrong.

3. Lowest showings for his whisper? His whisper isn't THAT powerful, it wasn't even able to inflict any proper damage during the Silent War. His scream is incredbily powerful, no doubt. His whisper however shouldn't be enough to take out Apocalypse. Take a look at BB's latest "whisper showings"

Well, apparently his whisper is strong enough to take down Gladiator and Savage Hulk, among other powerful characters.

And Sentry didn't want to fight him because he'd "use his voice" in the fight.

A full scream, and Apocalypse would be f*cked.

Originally posted by llagrok
No reason to badmouth Apoc because he would beat mags.

Wishful fantasies...

Originally posted by batdude123
So you want to claim that Apocalypse is more durable than an enhanced Hulk?

Besides, you and I both know that WWH is a jobberfest for anybody not named "Hulk."

And I guess Apocalypse has to dodge tables thrown at him.

Well, apparently his whisper is strong enough to take down Gladiator and Savage Hulk, among other powerful characters.

And Sentry didn't want to fight him because he'd "use his voice" in the fight.

A full scream, and Apocalypse would be f*cked.

Wishful fantasies...

I agree with all those points, except the last

Originally posted by batdude123
Apocalypse has to dodge tables thrown at him.

The dumbest and most exaggerated joke ever created....

Personally i think blackbolt should be higher up.... regardless wut ppl say im pretty sure a scream would defeat anyone who is bound by science, which apoc is....

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
Personally i think blackbolt should be higher up.... regardless wut ppl say im pretty sure a scream would defeat anyone who is bound by science, which apoc is.... The Gauntlet isn't really in any particular order per se.

Originally posted by batdude123
So you want to claim that Apocalypse is more durable than an enhanced Hulk?

Besides, you and I both know that WWH is a jobberfest for anybody not named "Hulk."

And I guess Apocalypse has to dodge tables thrown at him.



Well, apparently his whisper is strong enough to take down Gladiator and Savage Hulk, among other powerful characters.

And Sentry didn't want to fight him because he'd "use his voice" in the fight.

A full scream, and Apocalypse would be f*cked.



Wishful fantasies...

In order. 1. Yes. Apocalypse is more durable than WWH.
2. True, but what does that have to do with Apoc taking most of the people in this gauntlet? 3. F U. dopedfu That table was full of PIS and the power cosmic. vin

"So, if you want to sit there and claim that Apocalypse at his regular levels is more durable than Savage Hulk and Gladiator, then be my guest. However, I sincerely doubt you'll be getting a lot of support for those ludicrous ideas."

He's got one. I think Apoc is more durable than Glads and Hulk.


I'm gonna skip the Sentry statement.

No, he wouldn't be. Looking at Apocalypse's powerset and his withstanding a SCREAM during X-Factor #68, it's quite obvious he would survive it. And what's stopping him from dodging it or mindraping BB?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
In order. 1. Yes. Apocalypse is more durable than WWH.
2. True, but what does that have to do with Apoc taking most of the people in this gauntlet? 3. F U. dopedfu That table was full of PIS and the power cosmic. vin

"So, if you want to sit there and claim that Apocalypse at his regular levels is more durable than Savage Hulk and Gladiator, then be my guest. However, I sincerely doubt you'll be getting a lot of support for those ludicrous ideas."

He's got one. I think Apoc is more durable than Glads and Hulk.


I'm gonna skip the Sentry statement.

No, he wouldn't be. Looking at Apocalypse's powerset and his withstanding a SCREAM during X-Factor #68, it's quite obvious he would survive it. And what's stopping him from dodging it or mindraping BB?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
In order. 1. Yes. Apocalypse is more durable than WWH.
2. True, but what does that have to do with Apoc taking most of the people in this gauntlet? 3. F U. dopedfu That table was full of PIS and the power cosmic. vin

"So, if you want to sit there and claim that Apocalypse at his regular levels is more durable than Savage Hulk and Gladiator, then be my guest. However, I sincerely doubt you'll be getting a lot of support for those ludicrous ideas."

He's got one. I think Apoc is more durable than Glads and Hulk.


I'm gonna skip the Sentry statement.

No, he wouldn't be. Looking at Apocalypse's powerset and his withstanding a SCREAM during X-Factor #68, it's quite obvious he would survive it. And what's stopping him from dodging it or mindraping BB?

Good Lord... I had no idea you were such an idiot. Hell, look above this post... even Evil Ash is making fun of you.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
I concur.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
In order. 1. Yes. Apocalypse is more durable than WWH.
2. True, but what does that have to do with Apoc taking most of the people in this gauntlet? 3. F U. dopedfu That table was full of PIS and the power cosmic. vin

"So, if you want to sit there and claim that Apocalypse at his regular levels is more durable than Savage Hulk and Gladiator, then be my guest. However, I sincerely doubt you'll be getting a lot of support for those ludicrous ideas."

He's got one. I think Apoc is more durable than Glads and Hulk.


I'm gonna skip the Sentry statement.

No, he wouldn't be. Looking at Apocalypse's powerset and his withstanding a SCREAM during X-Factor #68, it's quite obvious he would survive it. And what's stopping him from dodging it or mindraping BB? Meow.

Originally posted by batdude123
Good Lord... I had no idea you were such an idiot. Originally posted by Evil_Ash

batdude, xplosive, trickster and everyone else, keep it clean guys...

Originally posted by pr1983
batdude, xplosive, trickster and everyone else, keep it clean guys... That's why I use Old Spice body wash.

Originally posted by Tyrant
That's why I use Old Spice body wash.

good thinking...

Apoc would have one hell of a time against Dracula, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Apoc would have one hell of a time against Dracula, imo.

He already have.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/apocvsdracu1.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/apocvsdracu2.png

People tend to underestimate Dracula. He's gone toe to toe with the Silver Surfer, the X-Men, Generation X, Thor and Dr Strange on separate occasions.

1 - Apoc 10/10
2 - Apoc 10/10
3 - Apoc 10/10
4 - Apoc 10/10
5 - Apoc 3/10
6 - Apoc 0/10
7 - Apoc 7/10
8 - Apoc 3/10
9 - Apoc 0/10

Bump.

Clears it. Only Loki and HE can challenge him.

Te first few comments were sayig that ikaris or BB can defeat Apoc

Funny how some people improved. Nice thread.

^They can't beat him

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Clears it. Only Loki and HE can challenge him.

1. Namor - Poccy 10/10
2. Hulk - Poccy 10/10
3. Mr Sinister - Poccy 10/10
4. Dracula - Poccy 9/10 Nur was weakened
5. Xavier (telepathic battle) - Poccy 9/10 has withstood him before.
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/the_ninjak/Forum/1ddaf62cdef62ccb2b33fc87e80c52a3288.jpg
6. Black Bolt - Poccy 9/10
7. Ikaris Poccy 10/10
8. Loki - Loki 8/10 Loki is a beast
9. High Evolutionary Poccy 7/10


Loki wins

Xavier
Loki
He
BB

win

Originally posted by the ninjak
1. Namor - Poccy 10/10
2. Hulk - Poccy 10/10
3. Mr Sinister - Poccy 10/10
4. Dracula - Poccy 9/10 Nur was weakened
5. Xavier (telepathic battle) - Poccy 9/10 has withstood him before.
6. Black Bolt - Poccy 9/10
7. Ikaris Poccy 10/10
8. Loki - Loki 8/10 Loki is a beast
9. High Evolutionary Poccy 7/10


Loki wins LOL. Notwithstanding that in this thread any encounter two characters have had with each other before is removed...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=474929&pagenumber=2#post10064189
A short summary calling into question whether Apocalypse even has telepathic ability. Let alone, Xavier level telepathic ability.

One part pulled out of that treatise and reiterated for emphasis:
A telepathic sucker punch knocking someone down briefly is really no different than a physical sucker punch doing the same thing, with regard to the fact that a weaker person is capable of doing it to a stronger person.
To illustrate this point here is Emma Frost psiblasting Nate Grey:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2609/xman05003yp8rc0.jpg

And some of Xavier's telepathic feats.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This is Xavier commandeering the mind of the people of Earth to drive off the Z'nox.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5315/z1cv4.jpg
http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/6351/z2fy6.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3699/z1oe3.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2963/z3js4.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7892/z2rl6.jpg

This is Xavier transmitting the thoughts and emotions of the population of the Skrull throneworld, to Galactus - which imo, would entail bypassing Galactus' mental defenses.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8597/05lh7.jpg

This is Xavier harnessing the mental energy on a planetary scale again, gathering the mental energy from Selandiar, and it's used to attack the mind of Ego, the Living Planet.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3601/0maximumsecurity32jk8.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7658/0maximumsecurity33pe7.jpg

This is Xavier taking Namor and Strange into the Collective Unconsciousness of the Universe.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7713/newavengersilluminati00yi0.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4674/newavengersilluminati00rl0.jpg

This is Xavier battling Dark Phoenix.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/75/uncannyxmen19800813614mf5.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/7321/uncannyxmen19800813615mv5.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6250/uncannyxmen19800813616jj9.jpg

This is Xavier alongside Thanos and Adam Warlock fighting the Goddess with his telepathic powers.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0615vo8.jpg
http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0616ip8.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades061718jh1.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crusades0619ff8.jpg

This is Xavier psiblasting Cassandra Nova, in utero, before he was even born.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9338/xmen12117dt7.jpg

Xavier recalling how he learned of the Z'nox, by telepathically scanning stars for life:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7262/z4lo7.jpg
Again telepathy traversing half a star system to locate Kitty and Nightcrawler.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7262/z4lo7.jpg

Onslaught is the result of Xavier's powers combined with Magneto.
Cassandra Nova is the result of Xavier's powers.

This is Emma Frost psiblasting Nate Grey, a far superior telepath.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2609/xman05003yp8rc0.jpg
As an example that telepaths are not innately immune to telepathy.
And Emma seemingly using telekinesis.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1714/newmutantsannual0433be5.jpg
As an example of one time feats of powers characters don't normally have that are generally ignored when looking at a character overall.

This is Apocalypse stating he needs Cable to take him to the Astral Plane.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3945/58182587fr3.jpg
Indicating he doesn't actually have telepathy at all?
Reaffirming the Jean incident where he reacted to telepathy as a novelty.

Also LOL at Apocalypse actually beating HE.

Clears it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

A short summary calling into question whether Apocalypse even has telepathic ability. Let alone, Xavier level telepathic ability.
And some of Xavier's telepathic feats.
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/the_ninjak/Forum/psionic53.png

facepalm

Originally posted by batdude123
facepalm

What?

Originally posted by the ninjak
What?

He thinks that Ikaris can defeat Apocalypse.

Ignore him.

Originally posted by galactusischere
He thinks that Ikaris can defeat Apocalypse.

Ignore him.
He could. I wouldn't say Ikaris would take a majority but he has the powerset to take Apoc 2-3/10 and make Apoc work for every single one of his 7-8 wins.

Originally posted by batdude123
1. Apocalypse 10/10

2. Apocalypse 9-10/10

3. Apocalypse 9/10

4. This is a tough one... 5/10, maybe 6/10 for Apocalypse

5. Xavier 7-8/10

6. BB 8/10

7. Ikaris 7-8/10

8. Loki 8/10

9. HE 10/10 This

Originally posted by the ninjak
Originally posted by xmarksthespot

A short summary calling into question whether Apocalypse even has telepathic ability. Let alone, Xavier level telepathic ability.
And some of Xavier's telepathic feats.


My scan shows otherwise it's not that Poccy has telepathy (although he has displayed reading a person's mind before) it's that he is quite immune to it's effects. It's hard to mind punch someone when their entire body is composed of a sentient malleable form including the brain. Plus Celestial tech TP resistance. Plus WILL wise Poccy has a GOd complex and believes he is the Apocalypse and my scan showed what happens when Xavier Jean(Rachel?) and Cable all have a go at him.
Plus. I know Jean is restrained but still Poccy seemed to simply shrug her off! You should realise that if you read my treatise in full, debunking the notion that Apocalypse has much telepathic ability at all, that that scan is included in the deconstruction.

You should realise in the earlier scan you posted that no one attacked Apocalypse with telepathy, and that if that was a telepathic sucker punch rather than simply an energy blast - which I wholly dispute and would love to see proved as such - it is not indicative of Xavier level telepathy. And that later in The Twelve arc Jean attacks him quite successfully (although lacking the comic right now, I can't recall whether she used telepathy.)

Then later in The Search for Cyclops she easily restrains him.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/Search_for_Cyclops_n4-p20.jpg

There are two ways in which telepathy can work, they can attack the brain directly or they can attack the mind. Apocalypse being a sentient being has a mind, regardless of whether his body is techno-organic.

I'm not disputing that Apocalypse has mental defenses. Everyone has mental defenses. Wolverine has mental defenses (and strong ones at that).

That doesn't and won't protect Apocalypse or Wolverine from planetary level telepathy - which Xavier is capable of.

Originally posted by Nihilist
This

Apoc has defeated Ikaris easily before.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Apoc has defeated Ikaris easily before. By defeated, you mean flew away.


And at the easily part.

Originally posted by Nihilist
By defeated, you mean flew away.


And at the easily part.

...
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/Random%20comic%20feats/newet-p47.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/Random%20comic%20feats/newet-p48.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/Random%20comic%20feats/newet-p49.jpg

Ikaris got his ass kicked, and he was the one that flew away first all wounded up and shit while Apoc flew away with a smile on his face afterwards.

Ikaris forgot he had the ability to teleport and regenerate from being atomized.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Ikaris forgot he had the ability to teleport and regenerate from being atomized.

Umm...did you see Ikaris get atomized anywhere? Did you see Apoc teleport?

Originally posted by galactusischere
Umm...did you see Ikaris get atomized anywhere? Did you see Apoc teleport? No, which is why getting wounded as such is simply a crap showing for Ikaris.

Besides you should read the stipulations of this thread more properly. Past encounters matter naught.

Originally posted by galactusischere
...
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/Random%20comic%20feats/newet-p47.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/Random%20comic%20feats/newet-p48.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/Random%20comic%20feats/newet-p49.jpg

Ikaris got his ass kicked, and he was the one that flew away first all wounded up and shit while Apoc flew away with a smile on his face afterwards. Ikaris was still able to fight, and Apoc bfr'd himself.


edit: Xmarks pretty much covered what else i was gonna say.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot You should realise that if you read my treatise in full, debunking the notion that Apocalypse has much telepathic ability at all, that that scan is included in the deconstruction.

You should realise in the earlier scan you posted that no one attacked Apocalypse with telepathy, and that if that was a telepathic sucker punch rather than simply an energy blast - which I wholly dispute and would love to see proved as such - it is not indicative of Xavier level telepathy. And that later in The Twelve arc Jean attacks him quite successfully (although lacking the comic right now, I can't recall whether she used telepathy.)

Then later in The Search for Cyclops she easily restrains him.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/Search_for_Cyclops_n4-p20.jpg



But if you read my quote you would have read that I also believe Poccy doesn't have Telepathy just defences due to his God complex and biology plus celestrial tech (which is way more advanced than Genoshan tech) I did write that he has displayed mild mind reading skills before but that won't stand here.

Wasn't Jean finally being able to enter Poccy's mind due to the hardwiring assault Poccy had linked to Scott.....therefore supplying an entranceway for Jean? That was a unique situation due to their "Lover's Link". Xavier won't be able to mimic that!

Originally posted by the ninjak
But if you read my quote you would have read that I also believe Poccy doesn't have Telepathy just defences due to his God complex and biology plus celestrial tech (which is way more advanced than Genoshan tech) I did write that he has displayed mild mind reading skills before but that won't stand here.

Wasn't Jean finally being able to enter Poccy's mind due to the hardwiring assault Poccy had linked to Scott.....therefore supplying an entranceway for Jean? That was a unique situation due to their "Lover's Link". Xavier won't be able to mimic that! Shapeshifting physiology or an animalistic mind provides defenses against mind-reading, but not mental assault. See Mystique and Wolverine/Sabretooth respectively.

Willpower can help to withstand mental assault, but only to a degree. See Storm or Wolverine or Magneto.

That doesn't mean that a psychic spear harnessing the mental energy of a planet won't crush any of those characters.

Besides, if you agree that Apocalypse lacks telepathy, how exactly does he take the majority against Charles Xavier in a telepathic battle.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Bump.
I thought you died. What manner of sorcery is this? ghost2

I probably could have used a better smilie, but it's a ghost and I referenced death.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I thought you died. What manner of sorcery is this? ghost2 The kind that's made of awesome.

Originally posted by the ninjak

Wasn't Jean finally being able to enter Poccy's mind due to the hardwiring assault Poccy had linked to Scott.....therefore supplying an entranceway for Jean? That was a unique situation due to their "Lover's Link". Xavier won't be able to mimic that!
You didn't answer this.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Besides, if you agree that Apocalypse lacks telepathy, how exactly does he take the majority against Charles Xavier in a telepathic battle.

Since when was this a telepathic battle? It's just a battle and Xavier loses.

Originally posted by the ninjak
You didn't answer this.

Since when was this a telepathic battle? It's just a battle and Xavier loses. I assumed it was rhetorical. Yes, I'm aware of the context of those scans. As much as I'm aware that Apocalypse was amped by the power of the Twelve in The Twelve crossover.

And as much as I'm aware that the only real feat of mental resilience that anyone has brought to my attention is deflecting Jean Grey's attack.

Since when is it a telepathic battle? Since I made the thread and stipulated as such in the OP.

Now, riddle me this, if Xavier can drive the thoughts of a planet into Galactus or Ego the Living Planet, or battle Dark Phoenix or the Goddess. What on Earth exactly has Apocalypse done to be given even the slightest bit of credit against him in a telepathic battle?

Oh you're right! never saw the Xavier battle being solely a TP battle, my apologise. An odd battle considering Poccy isn't really a telepath. I've only seen one showing. I thought this was a straight gauntlet. Well the scan I showed previously of Xavier and Jean being deflected could be translated as telepathic repelling or Poccy doing his famous kinetic head explosions. I say the former for kinetic explosions in skulls usually result in death. Either way an odd matchup.

If Poccy has to stand there and squint real hard. Xavier gets repelled and sooner or later may find a way in other than Jeans/Scotts link technique.
If Poccy actually got to fight back then Xavier dies.

Poccy doesn't kick people who are already down, that's not his style.

stops at 5. screw this thread's poccy wanking

Apocalypse 9/10
Apocalypse 10/10. A brute can't win against someone who's much more versatile and powerful than he is.
Apocalypse 10/10
Apocalypse 10/10. The dude was weaker than a weakened Apoc. He could only win against him via controlling his body which didn't turn out too good for him in the end when VH shot him down.
Xavier can't even affect Apoc. Apocalypse Wins.
Apocalypse 6-7/10
Apocalypse already stomped his ass. Apocalypse 9/10.
Split. A short fight already happened and neither managed to win.
Split. A fight already happened and neither managed to win.

Originally posted by batdude123
1. Apocalypse 10/10

2. Apocalypse 9-10/10

3. Apocalypse 9/10

4. This is a tough one... 5/10, maybe 6/10 for Apocalypse

5. Xavier 7-8/10

6. BB 8/10

7. Ikaris 7-8/10

8. Loki 8/10

9. HE 10/10

This!

And big respect for Drac makes this post pretty on the mark.

Originally posted by TheTyrant

Xavier can't even affect Apoc. Apocalypse Wins.
oh then how does apocalypse, who has no mindraping feats of his own, win then?

Originally posted by 753
oh then how does apocalypse, who has no mindraping feats of his own, win then?

He's read Ozymandias's mind, meaning that he does possess telepathy.
He mindraped Xavier in the Twelve iirc, meaning that he can mindrape.

Originally posted by the ninjak
This!

And big respect for Drac makes this post pretty on the mark.

Not that. Apocalypse has already shitstomped Ikaris without exerting any effort at all, yet the guy has Ikaris as the winner of the match despite on panel evidence.

people dont always agree with character representation in comics for various reasons some being PIs, CIs, context etc etc,... and setting playing aprt where in a forum match not all things would be the same as in a comic.

having said that i havent seen much of ikaris that would allow him to beat jobber blue lypse.