Who is the most powerful creature in middle earth in the third age?

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glorfindel
My last thread went well I think so Who is the most powerful and why?
the contenders are
Sauron (without his ring)
Tom bombadil (who is he realy)
Goldberry (same as above)
Gandalf (before or after the fight with the balrog)
Galadriel (very old)
Elrond (wise)
Tree beard (where do ents come from)
DEXX (claims to be an orc)
saruman (head of the white counsil, ring maker)
Any one else?
Happy Dance

mah
sauron is nothing without his ring. I would say Tom Bombadil, although we dont know who he is.

Mujaffa
Me....i'm an man...chopping down orc each step i take....
and there's the balrog...

glorfindel
I agree with mah. eek! tom has to be top , hes the only one who every one thinks would be the last to fall if sauron were to get his ring back.(we do know who Tom is you know) but Goldberry is (maybe)more powerful, laughing out loud

Mujaffa
who the heck is goldberry??????????+++++

Dexx
besides me? I'd have to take Gandalf after the fight or a balrog. But Gandalf would be the most powerfull.

mah
Tom's lady

Dexx
yeah...i thought i remembered the name from somewhere...
but why necessaryly the MOST powerfull. Immagine head of the istari, Gandalf.

mah
Tom Bombadil is absolutely more powerful than Gandalf

Mujaffa
no this guy is Happy Dance

------NO more smilies off-topic -mah------

glorfindel
There is a debate that asks who Tom is and why he is in the book(see
http://.org/talk/tolkien.htm) they seem to come up with the idear that tom is one of the valar ( Aule I think) ,which would make goldberry his wife (Yavanna).
the question about gandalfs power is again, who is gandalf realy? is he an elf,man,or one of the Maiar, which would make him equal to sauron?



it,s dark cold and wet in manchester today, we also have just had 3 earthquakes (3.9)

Ushgarak
The Istari are not the equal of Sauron in power.

mah
Sauron without the ring?

Ushgarak
Technically, the Ring is PART of Sauron. In any case, it's a bit apples and oranges to compare Sauron in LOTR with anyone power-wise.

mah
and since the choice was sauron without the ring he's really nothing

Fire
I dunno think sauron is very powerful, cause as ush said the ring is a part of him.
as long as I don't get more info about tom I'm not making an opion

and if it ain't sauron or tom I'd take elrond or gandalf, probably will go for elrond even tho I don't think anyone will agree I do not think that the powerful always fight the evil forces

glorfindel
Galadriel is older and more powerfuler that Elrond

Ushgarak
I'd put an outside bet on Cirdan, myself. He always struck me as the smartest, at least, just spending the whole time making boats...

Dexx
yup. Still Gandalf

glorfindel
But the Istari (wizards) are not elves, but they do not grow old,they have great power,and even deeper knowledge?
they came out of the west,over the sea they must be one of the maiar
as was sauron in the begining, maybe not as powerful as each other then but as time has passed and sauron has become weaker maybe gandalf is now the stronger??

Dexx
smileSauron's not an elf either, but he doesne't grow old also, and he has great power too.

Ushgarak
The Istari were almost certainly sent by the Maiar; they are not Maiar in themselves and never- or very rarely- really show that sort of outright power. After all, there were five of them; if they were all at least Sauron powered it would have been a VERY short war.

Darth Ninja
What about . . . SMAUG!

He was certainly powerful. He just got too overconfident and arrogant to replace that one missing scale on his chest.

Darth Ninja

Dexx
why smaug? Why not Glaurung, Ungoliant or Shelob while we're there. Cause they're not the most powerfull.

Fire
well glorfindel it's only logical that galadriel is more powerful and wiser than elrond she's probably a few 100 years older than he is wisdom comes with age

Captain REX
We're talking about the Third Age, Dexx.

I'd go with Gandalf. He's pretty powerful. He's even got a Ring of his own, and he becomes the Head of the Council after casting down Saruman.

He kind reminds me of Kuylen from Ush's RPG for some reason...maybe the fact that he disappears so much in The Hobbit to take care of his own business and he's stronger than his companions...

mah
even though we don't know excactly what he is look at the facts; Tom Bombadil played around with the ring without getting affected

Ushgarak
Kuylen spends time away because he is supposed to be a VERY powerful villain for the good guys, not a means via which the Dark Side players can defeat any problem they meet.

But if you killed him he would NOT come back...

Captain REX
Oh yeah, I forgot about that...

Tom Bombadil is just to weird to me. It would have been great if he was in the FOTR movie. sad

Fire
sorry mah, but till I know more about tom I can't say I believe he is the most powerful

Captain REX
He and Gandalf are at the top on my list.

mah
Fire, I think this is almost proof that Tom is the one:

Glorfindel in the council of Elrond:
"...soon or late the Lord of the Rings would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power toward it. Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First; and then Night will come."

Dexx
Tolkien deffenetley tries to tell us something through him. But i doubt he is the most powerfull. Again i camo and say that there shouldn't be comparisons like this one...the most powerfull, too superior, gifted..bla..bla. They must form a simbiot circle and together get along. Bombadil has his role, so does Gandalf in the big picture.

glorfindel
simby what ic??
but yes once again you are right .it is wrong to try and say one is above the other , but its also fun and instructive for those who have not read the other books to learn about how deep tolkien went in his writtings. i.e. tom,gladriel,Dexx, ents,ect. wink
And what abig picture it is too smokin'

Darth Ninja
If Gandalf was so damn powerful . . . why didn't he (try to) defeat Smaug by himself. It's real simple. Smaug would've killed Gandalf, then ate him. laughing out loud

mah
big picture or not, I see old Tommy as the supreme power on Middle-earth, along with Sauron

Fire
sorry mah, still disagree till I know more

mah
Glorfindel basically say that Bombadil will be the last one to stand, and only if Sauron put all his might and power towards him would he fall. its clear enough.

Dexx
some things are left to thinka bout in the books. Gandalf may or may have not defeated Smaug by himslef.....we'll never find out but he did have a role in it's death. As in the whole story.

Ushgarak
What are you guys actually defining as 'power'? These comparisons seem to be all over the place. Are you talking sheer combat ability, or what? Face it, Gandalf couldn't even defeat the spiders in The Hobbit without a plan that would have invovled sacrifcing himself. The Istari are not direct combat wizards- but how do you define power?

Dexx
*compares balrog with spiders in "the hobbit"*...hmm...dunno bout that.
But yes...power is a little too general.

glorfindel
It is written in unfinished tales in the chapter under the heading "the quest of erebor" that gandalf wanted to restore a king under the mountain and in dale to stop Sauron from sending an army around that way to attack rivendel. wink And at the end of TRoTK they tell of the battle s at dale. Gandalf did not have the time or the notion of fighting the dragon himself . and ush is correct gandalf was not a fighter his ring gave him the power to bring out the hero,s in others.(i think) smokin'

Ushgarak
Does not matter how much comparing you do, Dexx. Gandalf could NOT get them out of that situation. If he was the most 'powerful' creature on Middle Earth in the way that seems to be being meant, he could have done.

Now, take Elrond. He IS a capable fighter, but someone like Glorfindel is more lethal. But Elrond is the most powerful HEALER on Middle-Earth!

How do we compare people that are powerful in entirely different fields?

mah
is gandalf more powerful when he has become Gandalf the White?

Ushgarak
I do believe he is given greater power for his new task, yes.

Dexx
he did save them from the wolfes. Though i don't belive his power is in phisical combat..i didn't say that.

glorfindel
Yes, but we are not sure weather Gandalf is gandalf when he is sent back after his fight with the balrog?





today in manchester it is dark and mild and not raining .....we have just had another quake(it,s getting quite funny) wink smokin'

Dexx
it's him, and then some. But he did ok even before he fell.

glorfindel
In silmarillion page34 it states that a maia called Olorin was the wisest of them (the maia) doesn,t it say that gandalf was called Olorin in his youth some where in Lotrs???? this would make him equal with sauron ,,,,,poss confused

Dexx
yes it does:

Olorin A Maia, one of the istari: Mithrandir, Gandalf, and cf. The Two Towers IV 5: "Olorin i was in my youth in the west that is forgotten"

mah
why would this make him more powerful than Sauron?

glorfindel
because sauron was a maia in the begining who was corrupted by melkor . smokin'

mah
..and?

Dexx
and sauron's dead...

Ushgarak
Like I have said, CLEARLY Sauron is more powerful than the Istari or he would have been beaten very quickly by them.

glorfindel
ACTUALY it CLEARLY states that the vala chose from the maia the peers of sauron and by this time sauron had spent a great deal of his original strenth anyway , so if they were to have met the outcome is in some dout wink
but the vala would/could not direcly interfear because of the ban which was still in force against the noldor, so gandalf had to support those opposed to sauron but not directly fight himself. stick out tongue
smokin'






the sun does not shine in manchester, it,s the perfect place for ORC,s
eek! laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

Ushgarak
Yet it is theorised that two of them were destroyed by Sauron, and a third one- the most skilled- came under his sway. Who is looking more powerful, HMM?

glorfindel
If you mean Alatar and Pallando (the two blue wizards page 394 unfinished tales) then yes possible sauron was stronger than them, saruman was I think decieved by his unlawful use of the stone, as was denethor, not by any force or power of sauron.
I seem to remeber a chapter in the breaking of the fellowship when frodo was wareing the ring on Amon Hen where two powers are mentaly fighting over control of frodo and one(gandalf?) holds the other (sauron) at bay while frodo removes the ring?? smokin'

Ushgarak
Err... the section on Palantirs again clearly states it was Sauron's influence on the stones that causes their corruptive power; he also states that Denethor DID have the right to use it. Go check again.

glorfindel
denethor did have the right but not the power, sauraman had the power but not the right wink

glorfindel
did n,t someone say somewhere that we don,t know the names of the two blue wizards??????

Ushgarak
Well, we don't really. One set of Tolkien's notes gives them the names you used but the accuracy of those is debated by the community, especially as elsehwere he keeps saying they have no names and elsewhere again gave them entirely different names.

That's the prolbem with Unfinished Tales; Tolkien kept changing his mind with his notes and they are often contraductory and not necessarily authoritative.

glorfindel
still feel that gandalf the white is stroger than souron and tom is strongest

Darth Ninja
Gandalf is the strongest!? laughing Smaug would've fried Gandalf with his fire breath. . . then eaten him. laughing out loud

glorfindel
not sooooooo by a long mile wink
Gandalf wore the ring of fire and was upto taking a balrog on, when tired, he could have wiped the floor with a dragon stick out tongue
smaug was nothing compared with the old dragons in silmarilion , anyway dwarfs fight dragons not wizards Happy Dance smokin'

Darth Ninja
Smaug would've smashed Gandalf to a pulp or just swallowed him. As for the dwarves . . . Smaug already made short work of them when he took over Erebor - The Lone Mountain.

I am Smaug! I am strong . . . Strong . . . STRONG!

Julie
oh I don't know.....there are lots of nasty and nice creatures that inhabit middle earth.....hmmm

glorfindel
i know what u mean, DEXX is the nastyist orc of them all smokin'

Dexx
and my most important trait of them all is that..i still live, lurking in the shadows

Darth Ninja
What about Morgoth (Sauron's own master)?

Ushgarak
THIRD age, DN...

Mujaffa
EDITED

mah
keep the fun-pics to the fun-pic thread

Mujaffa
Happy Dance

Mujaffa
party pooper

Dexx
anything ontopic?

sauron
bullshit!

how much did he do without it!

ruined numenor......
fought alongside melkor
killed people who tried to help him stick out tongue

exactly!

Exa
SAURON! Definitely. Even without the ring...

Saruman is also quite mighty, but Sauron is the best ^^

sauron
love thank youuuuu love


at least SOMEONE can see sense stick out tongue

Exa
stick out tongue

Nah I mean....... lotr obviously showed that the only way to destroy Sauron is by himself/the ring which is part of himself, so that has to mean that he IS the mightiest one.

sauron
oh.....*realises is not too powerful*

Kitoky
Sauron of course!

orlandoOYEA
Most definatley SAURON. I mean he IS the dark lord

shadowy_blue
The greatest powers in the Third Age?

Hhmm..I would have to place all of the Maiar first on the list because, well, they were Maiar. In my view, they are therefore more powerful than Elves, even very powerful Elves such as Galadriel, Elrond and Glorfindel.

Sauron tops the list in my book, whether with or without the One Ring. Even without the Ring, he was the greatest threat to ME throughout the Third Age; he had massive armies at his disposal (not to mention the Nazgul) and the major powers of "good" had a pretty tough time defeating him.

In my opinion, Gandalf and Saruman would have been a match for Sauron in their Maia form, but not in the human form which they took on in ME. While I am tempted to place Saruman above Gandalf, by reason of the forces that he evantually had at his disposal, I believe that Gandalf edges it by reason of his greater wisdom and humility (enabling him to avoid the corruption that spelt Saruman's doom) and also because he was able to mobilise the free people of ME to his cause. Whether Grey or White, therefore, I would put Gandalf before Saruman.

Then comes the Balrog, another Maia. Although Gandalf was able to defeat him, he died doing so, and I believe that he would have been a match for any Elf. Yes, Glorfindel had defeated a Balrog, and quite possibly the likes of Galadriel and Elrond could have done so, but I believe that the Balrog was intrinsically more powerful than them.

Then come the greatest of the Elves: Galadriel, Elrond, Glorfindel, in that order. The Witch King would have to go after Galadriel, (Galadriel is just really too powerful though it's not too obvious, and being able to resist the Ring of Power is a powerful thing to do. Of course it's not the only reason, but I think you guys know it already, especially for those who are familiar with her role in The Silmarillionwink ) Elrond, (LOL..son of Earendil and Elwing, bearer of one of the Elven Rings, healer, managed to preserve Imladris for a long time, he could summon the River (and it's not a simple thing to do) and Glorfindel (I'd have Glorfindel above the Witch King because ALL nine of the Wraiths were darned scared of him)

After that it becomes difficult. We have the likes of Thranduil, Dain II, Aragorn, The Hobbits (yes, the Hobbits, especially as a unit). It becomes very difficult to choose between them, so I won't. So, here's my list:

1. Sauron
2. Gandalf
3. Saruman
4. The Balrog
5. Galadriel
6. Elrond
7. Glorfindel
8. The Witch King

Also, I haven't included Tom Bombadil, since he cannot really be compared with the others, being the enigma that he is. Perhaps he should come first, being unaffected by the Ring, or perhaps he should not be featured at all, being unconcerned in such matters.

There are others who might be included, but we don't know enough about them. The other Istari, for example, Radagast? Alatar and Pallando? Any other Balrogs or dragons who escaped the War of Wrath? We just don't know enough about them.

I also would like to include Cirdan and Celeborn but they really didn't demonstrate a lot of their powers.

Honorable Mention:
Treebeard, Beorn, The other Nazgul, Smaug, The Eagles.

smile

Kitoky
Holy *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*













shadowy I think you should cut down on the post lengths....

shadowy_blue
LOL..I didn't know we have limits here..stick out tongue Sorry. big grin

Kitoky
No, it's alright, but it always just seems you're writing out your life's story there...

shadowy_blue
laughing Just getting carried away. stick out tongue

Kitoky
You tend to do that often big grin

shadowy_blue
stick out tongue

Damn Kit, you type so fast. You could reply within a minute or something.

*envies* sad

Kitoky
laughing I just have no life. That's all. big grin

sauron
ok that list kinda confuses me lol


witchking should go near the top..below sauron and galadriel...as sauroin commands him and technically galadriels is the only one who can kill him......then i would say gandalf saruman, then elrond as i think he could take a balrog.....then glorfindel last, as hes not really, too...well useful in the third age is he.....

so sauron,galadriel,witchking,gandalf,saruman...hang on!

in fact there cant even BE a list galadriel is only person there who can kill wiki apart from sauron, so she SHOULD be second,,,,but there are people, like gandalf who are more powerful than her....so it just wont work!

Lord_Andres
The Balrog would kick the shit out of the WK, the balrog is not a man you know

sauron
ya dont say!

wiki cant be killed, by ANYONE he was only killed because merry stabbed him with a blade of the noldor...which took away his wikiness

balrog would just roar....and hit him with fire



ganddalf the grey whupped the balrog

wiki whups gandalf the white




think about it!

Lord_Andres
what the hell can wikki do to the balrog? NOTHING the balrog would just step on him and squice him, till he would only be a panncake

sauron
the witchking would destroy the balrog....what CANT he do to him

see when you cant be killed, you tend to win fights

Lord_Andres
No thats whare you are wrong! allright say that wikki can't be killed, but he can be fought to a dual, thers just no way he could have killed the balrog, not a chance in hell the balrog would just set him on fire over and over again(wikki couldint even beat Aragorn on weathertop) laughing out loud , now come on whats wikki gonna do? scratch the balrogs feet nails? oh I forgot he can't do that, it'l set him on fire

Exa
Its not sooo difficult to kill a Balrog

Ecthelion (elf in the First Age) killed five

Its just Gandalfs fault that it looks like Balrogs are that hard to kill stick out tongue he just cant do it any better big grin

Lord_Andres
those whare probobly baby balrogs

Fëanor
probably Gandalf wasn't sure of himself yet...since the istari were mandated to not use their full powers in ME as long as they wore the guise of men...the Flames of Anor did little to help him really...

shaber
Sauron was the most powerful being left on Middle Earth in BOTH the Second, AND even the Third Age (though he was separated from the Ring, he was still as powerful aas he had been early in the Second Age)

lancemorgan692@
The witchking has to be the most powerful.

shadowy_blue
I thought we're talking about power and not who can win fights or whatever or who can't be killed or whatnot. I'm fully aware that Murazor can't be killed except if you have a Westerness blade with you but I made my list judging by their "power" inside and out.

a Nazgul more powerful than Maiar? I doubt it.
I think I've already told my reason why I placed Galadriel and Elrond before Wiki.
And Glorfindel, I placed him before Wiki because of the reason that they're all scared of him and that just freaking proves how powerful he is compared to them. Why be afraid of an Elf? He's not wielding a Westernesse blade after all. Whether he was involved with the events of the Third Age or not, I still place him before Wiki.

About Wiki, he can't be killed, OK..but what if you have a Westerness blade with you? Then bye-bye Murazor...

We can agree to disagree, but please don't insinuate that my take on this is very wrong and should be changed and yours is right. I didn't just made a grocery list. I actually gave my reasons.

shaber
My thoughts if we are doing hierarchies:

In order, greatest first:

Sauron is clearly the most powerful being left on Middle Earth in both the Second and Third Ages.

Gandalf the WHITE says that he is the most dangerous character APART from Sauron. ie, he is much stronger as Gandalf the White than as Gandalf the Grey. Gandalf the White, Tolkein said, was the only character who stood any chance at all of destroying Sauron with the Ring.

Saruman of Many Colours was "falling off in wzardry," by the time the ents attacked Isenguard. One of Tolkein's central motifs is the incremental decay of evil. Saruman was losing his faculties simply because of his nefarious deeds. After Gandalf the White broke his staff and took his colour, he was nothing. However, initially he had been able to hold Gandalf the Grey captive, but Tolkein said that he might not have been wholly bad as yet at this point in the story. Gandalf the White is Saruman "as he should have been."

Gandalf the Grey, much lesser than Gandalf the White.

Galadriel diminished by the end of the book, but she did seem psychically quite powerful at one point.

Elrond: Is skilled in healing and the like. He is wise through age.

The Witchking: Lucky Sauron never retrieved the Ring! The Nazgul would have become even more a threat as a result.

Aragorn is stronger willed and longer lived than inferior men.

Denethor and Faramir have Numenorean blood so are more powerful minded than lesser men. Boromir, in whom the Numenorean traits are recessive, is weaker willed than his father and brother.

Kitoky
Glorfy love

shaber
My list is quoted from Tolkein stick out tongue

sauron
oih well in thats case i spolo9gise, forgive me?

and kit glorfy is grest but not in age three! because all he does is go ASFALOTH! and the horse runs with frodo ! and frodos lkie WHOAH NAZGUL I HAtE YOIU!
and they try to stab him...but he says elberethe and they are like WHAOH he sjusy said elberethn and try to runs

shadowy_blue
It's alright. smile I'm sorry too if I sounded kinda harsh up there. I wasn't in my best mood when I posted it. I just had the crappiest day of my life. I just realized how argumentative my post sounded when I re-read it this morning. I'm sorry. sad

smile

shadowy_blue
Anyways, Kit...I found this. Glorfindel on Decipher Card..

sauron
its ok lol

i wasnt even in any type of mood lol

my spelling was so bad

Exa
I also think Wiki is better than Balrog... not necessarily stronger, but more mighty because he is driven by the power of the One. No Balrog causes as much terror as Wiki... no Balrog brought Arnor to fall... the Balrogs may be strong, but they are simple and after all only soldiers of Morgoth. Witchy is better love

sauron
exactly stick out tongue

the witchking of angmar is second in command and below sauron himself! orcs/goblins would kill themselves if he asked them too stick out tongue he is totally the man!

a balrog, is explained to be

'of the stature of man, but with a larger build, wrapped in shadow and flame'

the balrog isnt the shadow, or the flame, they just wrap around him....the big scary thing with pincers you saw in FOTR isnt accurate to ehat a balrog should be.....

Exa
laughing laughing

... and the less there is of something, the better it is... there are at least seven Balrogs (earlier several hundred) and only ONE WITCHY!!!!

And - no man can kill Witchy, but one man is enough to kill five Balrogs

sauron
stick out tongue maybe a man could actualy kill witchy....maybe slaves of the dark lord just said that, so no man would actually try to lol

Exa
lol stick out tongue but that would rather be a disadvantage for the inventer of that sentence... it was Glorfindel of Rivendell stick out tongue big grin

sauron
yes glorfindel of rivendell

and ELF

elves love trees...and animals....and he wandered in forests

he must have encountered tom bombadil, treebeard, and mothy! ALL THE SAME PERSON! who brainwashed him!


^^yet another revelation^^

Exa
laughing laughing

NOW I FINALLY UNDERSTAND stick out tongue smile seems very logical... congrats for that revelation big grin

sauron
hmm why isnt there a smiley fro proudness


yey! stick out tongue *likes to reveal things*

Lord_Andres
If the balrog wanted to go out and cause great terror, I think he would have succeded, gandalf says himself that swords are no more use, so he could just have taken a long walk down to, lets say Edoras and slain all the people there and burned the village down, now the witchking coulint have done that singel handed! (He couldint even beat Aragorn laughing out loud )

sauron
witchking never fought aragorn, so we will never know

if the balrog went out he would be immediately slain...the swords are no more use line was added for the effect that 'oh they cant kill it' in the movie

a balrog CAN be killed by swords......read silmarillion

also look at ttt intr where balrog being whupped by gandy with a sword

Exa
Yeah, Gandalf says so - Gandalf is stupid! Swords ARE use against Balrogs, though abysses are more practical to get rid of them... the Balrogs in Gondolin were ALL killed with swords
They are just, hm, a little skilled in making themselves look bigger than they are... just illusion... "gathered shadows round him like wings" - he's an amateur mad
Witchy IS better, he made Glorfindel ride away as quickly as possible, Glorfindel who HAD killed a Balrog before!

Exa
erm, he did on weathertop... but Witchy wasnt defeated he did what he had wanted to, wound Frodo (the balrog didnt!!), and saw that it was no more use staying...

And - exactly, thats what the line was written for ^^

sauron
oh yeah shit

but the balrog wasnt after frodo though he was after them all...so when gandalf stopped he went for him

Lord_Andres
the witchking was after the ring

sauron
which frodo had

to get the ring...hes going to kill frodo

rotk on orodruin gollum tries to take ring sam gets scared and shocked at frodos strength brough on by the fact hes NOT going to give up the ring...he whupps gollum ......frodos not letting anyone touch that ring, you can see in the book when he challenges the ringwraiths. to get it

he must be dead

Lord_Andres
So why didint WK just kill Frodo on weaterhtop? BECAUSE HE COULINT!!!

sauron
he stabbed him with a morgul blade

not killing him, but it would turn frodo into a wraith who then would be under the influence of sauron and take the ring to him!

also he was distracted by flying man with fire

Exa
As Sauron said,

Because if stupid Elrond hadnt taken out the splitters of the Morgul blade, he wouldve become another wraith, which is more practical for Sauron than a stupid dead hobbit...

Lord_Andres
Acturly it is the WK that is stupit, if he would have cut frodo's trought and just taken the ring and given it to sauron right away, it would have saved alot truble for the forces of evil, and maybe the WK should have taken some lessons in swordfighting too

sauron
he would destroy you

well i could say the same about the balrog, if only hed killed gandalf....BUT HE COULDNT witchking CAN

and nearly did...until the rohirrim came

Discos
either eagles/nazgul

Discos - lets not get into "that" again

Lord_Andres
In your dreams, if he fights like that every time, I would have kicked his candy ass, if gandalf would have had used his powers the witch king woulint stand a chance, gandalf couldhave used that shield that he used against the balrog, and after that he could have used his light, too scare the WK away, or used the pushin with the staff or used the thunder thing that he killed the balrog with

sauron
*sigh*

you wouldnt...because one, you would be scared. if you stab him, you pretty much sink into shadow (a point the film missed out that merry and eowyn nearly die after touching him!) gandalf used all the power he is allowed to use. and it wasnt the nazgul that were scared of the light, it was the fell beasts and also the eagles are more powerful than balrogs too

balrogs are lesser maias

Lord_Andres
No I would not be scared, so why didint gandalf use the shield against the WK, if he did the WK woulind stand a chance as I said before

sauron
look

witchking is saurons second in command....if he says something they do it! he has FAR more advanced weaponry than a balrog....his swords/mace could easily cut through gandalf shield...and if not cut through weaken it till he cant hold it up any longer

and yes.....if a 7 foot tall unkillable man with a mace attacked you you WOULD be scared...and if you stabbed him....you die

Lord_Andres
so what if he is 7feet tall, (it aint the sice that matters, it is how you use it) the WK is so slow I would have no problem in kicking him to the far end of the universe

sauron
well how are you going to kill him without touching him...

Lord_Andres
Cut him with my sword

sauron
in which case you die and he lives

Lord_Andres
what do I die of????????????????

Thorondor
lol sauron, i just think he can't accept the fact that he's wrong stick out tongue

Lord_Andres
What will I die of if I cut him in half huh? sadness? I don't think so

sauron
i dont know WHY you would

but if you stab hit attack....the witchking, you die

well sink into a world of shadow....then die

Lord_Andres
Aragorn didint die, so why should I?

sauron
aragorn didnt fight wiki on weathertop actually when he appears wiki runs off.....and leaves others to fight (clever sight)

Lord_Andres
oh, but Merry and eowyn fought him, (and kicked his ass) they didint die

sauron
yeah i explained that earlier...they didnt put it in the film

but eowyn instantly falls merry screams about his arm..and pippin finds him and kees him up and awake

and eowyn has to go to the houses of healing, where she meets faramir explaining why they are together at the end smile

Thorondor
they nearly died....didnt you watch the film?

shaber
Actually in Lorien, either Galadriel, Celeborn or Aragorn says of the Balrog, "there is no greater evil save the one who dwells in the Dark Tower."

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