The Phantom VS. Batman

Who would win in a fight,not who would you think would win in a fight.Base your results on facts.I think this would be a good match up,because neither have powers,just training.Also another thing,no weapons for either side,this includes gadgets,weapons,non-violent items that can be used as a weapon.

I personally believe The Phantom would win in unarmed combat.Just because of the fact that he has more experience in battle,he has been trained since birth,and has decades of fighting knowledge.

Actually Batman would win in fights. To see why just check the Batman respect thread.

As for the Phantom ....he is bar none my favorite character (check out my sig). Although largely forgotten (even in KMC I am certain that most people do not know much, if anything, about the Phantom) he is one of the most seminal characters in comicdom. He and Batman could be called literary peers, it is just that Batman became more prominent while Kit Walker became more of a cult figure.

With that said, Kit is a really capable fighter who is at peak human condition. He is more or less a medley of Batman, Zorro, Captain America and Black Panther. However his main weakness against Batman is that while Kit's writers kept him as 'peak human,' Batman's writers (and the writers of every other 'peak human' character e.g. Cap America and B. Panther) made their characters easily beyond peak human. Taking Batman as an example (and the reason why I said you should check out his respect thread), many of the things he does are easily NOT peak human ....they are much more.

But Kit Walker was still kept as a peak human ....more along the lines of another character from the same era - Zorro. He still has that sort of 'purity' (if you will) that stemmed from that era. Batman no longer has it. Don't get me wrong, he is still super, but as comics started going for more powerful heroes and villains he had to adapt (in much the same manner as Superman went from simply being able to leap 'over tall buildings' to surging across space and having all sorts of powers).

The main reason why Phantom did not undergo the same process is that his sales were simply not as large (even though his following for many decades was quite large, and even today he still appears in newspaper syndications across the world and in many languages ....e.g. in Kenya they have a Phantom newspaper series). Had Phantom gone the route of Batman (e..g large comic book sales instead of mass newspaper syndication) there is no doubt that he too would have had his abilities 'honed' to a far greater level.

Currently, the Phantom is no match for Batman. Think of it:

-Kit is a very smart individual, Bruce is a genius.

-Kit has great strength for a human, Bruce karate chops a tree trunk (yep, it happened).

-Kit has amazing combat ability, Bruce is a master of a plethora of martial arts.

-Kit has resources that range from artifacts from jungle lore to modern technology, Batman has a lot of 'interesting' stuff locked up in the Bat cave.

-The Phantom has faced a lot of very dangerous enemies across the years, Bruce has met enemies than range the gamut from humans to alien beings of considerable power.

-The Phantom is greatly by criminals (and his death mark ring is just as feared), but Batman's fear levels are so high that the Sinestro corps sent him a Qwardian ring which automatically sought those that inspired GREAT fear in others. For alien races to think that you generated sufficient fear to warrant a Yellow power-ring says a lot. (And those psychic types that have gotten inside Batman's mind always state that it is a really horrid place). To be honest Batman is an evil guy who does good ....the death of his parents destroyed something in him, and what was left was 'something' that although doing good was not good. Actually Batman says so himself in Hush (where he comments on how Clark - Superman - is good, but that he himself deep within is not).

conclusion:

I adore the Phantom more than any other, but he simply cannot stand up to current Batman (actually as of the late 60s early 70s Batman had already 'evolved' beyond the Phantom). Current Batman would destroy the Phantom without blinking. I honestly wouldn't even rate his chances high against Robin!

But who knows ....there are some Phantom comics being republished (not newspaper synds ....comics), thus there is some chance that his abilities may also evolve to keep up with the T'challas and the Steve's of the comic world.

Until they do, the Phantom remains a thoroughly original and seminal (though largely forgotten) character who simply cannot win against the Batman.

By the way, just so you know ....the Phantom is a character that, with a good writer and sufficient backing, could easily rival the likes of Black Panther and Batman.

The main issues are what I listed (the nature of publication stemmed towards newspaper syndication instead of comics, and there is a difference), plus the fact that the Phantom is largely in a more environmentally restricted loci. As in, unlike Batman who is in Gotham city (whcih offers a wider variety of plot sequence), the Phantom is largely confined to the African jungle (although every now and then he travels).

Now, there are several ways around this ....the most effective was what happened to Black Panther ....as in have him travel often to places like New York, where he can have a larger variety of villains/heroes etc. The second method (also used in Black Panther) is having the native kingdom have some rare resource (in BP's case Vibranium) that attracts all sorts of people ....for Phantom they have the jungle as 'pristine,' but that would only attract the typical poacher types and anti-environmental types (a problem that has afflicted Tarzan comics too ......most of his villains tend to have more or less the same genre base). A third methodology (ALSO used by Black Panther) is to bring advanced technology/skills to the native kingdom (e.g. Wakanda is the most technologically advanced society on marvel earth).

However, it is possible to seriously augment the Phantom comics .....the only thing is that taking either the Batman route or the Black Panther route would instantly add to the volume of COMIC sales, but the character would lose something in the process. On a financial point of view it would be prudent to do so, since the character is seriously undervalued and would basically be a Batman-esque character (who uses guns) with a Black Panther-esque history and a Zorro-esque mystique.

But it doesn't seem as if the publishers will go that route. The closest they came to it was a 1980s cartoon that, even though it lasted two seasons, saw a HUGE flourish of Phantom popularity (there were statuettes and posters of the character everywhere, and he was easily the star of the show ....even though for most people who liked him he had just emerged from 'no where'😉. Thus the character has potential .....but it requires good writers, and there are not many around with free time on their hands. Most writers of the Phantom have been largely oriented towards newspaper syndication and not comic books (again, there is a major difference).

However, should a good writer get a hold of the Phantom, it could easily move from a cult figure into something that could get a bit of good sales. Something akin to how Spawn came from nowhere and with Tod McFarlane (sp) at the helm literally blew up a firestorm.

Anyways, the Phantom is a great character ....it is just that Batman has evolved over the decades and with the times (and at times beyond the times), while the Phantom has largely remained true to his archetypical nature (in much the same way that Tarzan and Zorro have ....to the extent that if you showed someone who was reading the stories in 1945 modern iterations of the story they would still recognize it, but show someone who had stumbled across Batman even as late as the early 50s a modern comic it would be quite different and alien to what he was used to).

Current Batman against any Phantom would result in defeat for the Phantom.

Yeah,you got a point,well,lots of points.
Batman would probably win,but I still hold The Phantom close to my heart.He is my favorite,and will always be.I have respect for him that will never diminish.

Originally posted by spetznaz
By the way, just so you know ....the Phantom is a character that, with a good writer and sufficient backing, could easily rival the likes of Black Panther and Batman.

The main issues are what I listed (the nature of publication stemmed towards newspaper syndication instead of comics, and there is a difference), plus the fact that the Phantom is largely in a more environmentally restricted loci. As in, unlike Batman who is in Gotham city (whcih offers a wider variety of plot sequence), the Phantom is largely confined to the African jungle (although every now and then he travels).

Now, there are several ways around this ....the most effective was what happened to Black Panther ....as in have him travel often to places like New York, where he can have a larger variety of villains/heroes etc. The second method (also used in Black Panther) is having the native kingdom have some rare resource (in BP's case Vibranium) that attracts all sorts of people ....for Phantom they have the jungle as 'pristine,' but that would only attract the typical poacher types and anti-environmental types (a problem that has afflicted Tarzan comics too ......most of his villains tend to have more or less the same genre base). A third methodology (ALSO used by Black Panther) is to bring advanced technology/skills to the native kingdom (e.g. Wakanda is the most technologically advanced society on marvel earth).

However, it is possible to seriously augment the Phantom comics .....the only thing is that taking either the Batman route or the Black Panther route would instantly add to the volume of COMIC sales, but the character would lose something in the process. On a financial point of view it would be prudent to do so, since the character is seriously undervalued and would basically be a Batman-esque character (who uses guns) with a Black Panther-esque history and a Zorro-esque mystique.

But it doesn't seem as if the publishers will go that route. The closest they came to it was a 1980s cartoon that, even though it lasted two seasons, saw a HUGE flourish of Phantom popularity (there were statuettes and posters of the character everywhere, and he was easily the star of the show ....even though for most people who liked him he had just emerged from 'no where'😉. Thus the character has potential .....but it requires good writers, and there are not many around with free time on their hands. Most writers of the Phantom have been largely oriented towards newspaper syndication and not comic books (again, there is a major difference).

However, should a good writer get a hold of the Phantom, it could easily move from a cult figure into something that could get a bit of good sales. Something akin to how Spawn came from nowhere and with Tod McFarlane (sp) at the helm literally blew up a firestorm.

Anyways, the Phantom is a great character ....it is just that Batman has evolved over the decades and with the times (and at times beyond the times), while the Phantom has largely remained true to his archetypical nature (in much the same way that Tarzan and Zorro have ....to the extent that if you showed someone who was reading the stories in 1945 modern iterations of the story they would still recognize it, but show someone who had stumbled across Batman even as late as the early 50s a modern comic it would be quite different and alien to what he was used to).

Current Batman against any Phantom would result in defeat for the Phantom.

I always preffered the Spirit, the Phantom is good though. Remember kit is not the only Phantom. Nice Phantom sig by the way. !950's Batman probably would have been fighting aliens most of the time it was when comics went Sci Fi crazy, but I get your point.

Originally posted by Ranger Smith
I always preffered the Spirit, the Phantom is good though. Remember kit is not the only Phantom. Nice Phantom sig by the way. !950's Batman probably would have been fighting aliens most of the time it was when comics went Sci Fi crazy, but I get your point.

The Spirit? I am curious ....any links? I haven't heard of him/her/it .

If you find the Spirit preferable over the Phantom then I gotta know what it is. I'd really appreciate any links.

Thanks.

Spetz.

Originally posted by spetznaz
The Spirit? I am curious ....any links? I haven't heard of him/her/it .

If you find the Spirit preferable over the Phantom then I gotta know what it is. I'd really appreciate any links.

Thanks.

Spetz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit

He has a current series going on as well, under Darwyn Cooke, so I'm sure it's top quality, though I haven't read it personally. That guy's style and flair is all his own, and he's very good.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm honestly surprised you don't know who The Spirit is. Will Eisner's famous character.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit

He has a current series going on as well, under Darwyn Cooke, so I'm sure it's top quality, though I haven't read it personally. That guy's style and flair is all his own, and he's very good.

I honestly never heard of the character ....or if I had I cannot recall. From what I've read it seems to be more along the lines of Phantom-esque characters from that era. I'll look more into it.

I'm personally into The Shadow more, although no one can beat the likes of Dick Tracy. Doc Savage is pretty good as well , however he got a little too big for his boots....

How would Phantom 2040 do?

Originally posted by Basco15
Who would win in a fight,not who would you think would win in a fight.Base your results on facts.I think this would be a good match up,because neither have powers,just training.Also another thing,no weapons for either side,this includes gadgets,weapons,non-violent items that can be used as a weapon.

I personally believe The Phantom would win in unarmed combat.Just because of the fact that he has more experience in battle,he has been trained since birth,and has decades of fighting knowledge.

bruce

Originally posted by King Kandy
How would Phantom 2040 do?

He'd win , he can amp his stats to Superhuman and has insane computer tech in his wrist-bands.