Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Guardian - http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Guardian_I
Mar-Vell - http://www.marvel.com/universe/Captain_Marvel_(Mar-Vell)

No prep.

They fight in the mean street of Los Vegas.
No regard for the bystanders, or property damage either.

Who wins?

Mar-Vell, faster , stronger, and a better fighter... Although thats one hell of a battle suit Guardian has there.. It even has teleportation !! http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2496/durelvisfk4.gif
Shot at 2007-08-02

Meh.

I'm actually unsure here.
Thus I made this thread.

definatly Mar-vell, i read that his photon energy blasts are powerful eneough to destory a star twice the size of earth

Originally posted by willimon8
definatly Mar-vell, i read that his photon energy blasts are powerful eneough to destory a star twice the size of earth When was this?

Mar-Vell wins this easily.

Guardian

Originally posted by The Great Ones
Mar-Vell wins this easily.

What it would hardly be easy, heck Guardian was rebuilt to take on Galactus himself

Mar-Vell is either overrated, or underrated...

And, I'm still thinking about how he could win myself...

I've never seen Mar-Vell win an easy fight. I guess it's because he's always in a way been an underdog going into his battles..Before his power up , he was beating guy's like Namor ( in water ), and Ironman. In his time , he was right under Marvels big three, SS , Thor, and Hulk. Guardian can give him hell , but I'll give a slight advantage to Mar-Vell..

I think this could honestly stalemate as long as we're talking about most recent Guardian.

Non-cyborg Guardian loses the majority.

We are talking about cyborg Guardian though.

And not the current Guardian, as he's too much of an unknown.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Guardian - http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Guardian_I
Mar-Vell - http://www.marvel.com/universe/Captain_Marvel_(Mar-Vell)

No prep.

They fight in the mean street of Los Vegas.
No regard for the bystanders, or property damage either.

Who wins?

guardian

When Alpha Flight and the Avengers fought a weakened Galactus the one to put him down with one shot was Guardian. The other Avengers/Alpha Flight that were there that failed to do so was Quasar, Windshear, Vindicator II, Hercules, BOX IV, Sersi, Vision and Her. Also later the one who powered Galactus tech that teleported an entire planet to another dimension, and teleported the Consortium to Galactus was none other then Guardian

Just something to note.

Mar-Vell

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
We are talking about cyborg Guardian though.

And not the current Guardian, as he's too much of an unknown.

Current Guardian is either dead or far off in space doing that Plodex thing...

However, to stay on topic, cyborg Guardian is just too powerful and can process tactical opportunities far too quickly. He takes a solid majority from Mar-Vell...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
When Alpha Flight and the Avengers fought a weakened Galactus the one to put him down with one shot was Guardian. The other Avengers/Alpha Flight that were there that failed to do so was Quasar, Windshear, Vindicator II, Hercules, BOX IV, Sersi, Vision and Her. Also later the one who powered Galactus tech that teleported an entire planet to another dimension, and teleported the Consortium to Galactus was none other then Guardian

Just something to note. Yabuh, wasn't he made to fight Galactus?
It would stand to reason that he would have some sort of hidden power against him, and if not...
Mar-Vell can still dodge, and absorb energy... ermm

Originally posted by shksprtx
Current Guardian is either dead or far off in space doing that Plodex thing...

However, to stay on topic, cyborg Guardian is just too powerful and can process tactical opportunities far too quickly. He takes a solid majority from Mar-Vell... Current Guardian is Micheal Pointer.
The Guardian you're talking about got killed by the Collective (aka Micheal).

Mar-Vell still has cosmic awareness, and has good reaction time.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Yabuh, wasn't he made to fight Galactus?
It would stand to reason that he would have some sort of hidden power against him, and if not...
Mar-Vell can still dodge, and absorb energy... ermm

The Guardian you're talking about got killed by the Collective (aka Micheal).


No he didn't use a special power, just blasted him

So can Guardian.

Actually there is two, as one is a temporal copy or the real version that was killed by the Collective while there is another doing...something.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No he didn't use a special power, just blasted him

So can Guardian.

Actually there is two, as one is a temporal copy or the real version that was killed by the Collective while there is another doing...something. Ah...

Ya, buh, I'm talking about if this attack hits.
I mean, he can dodge on ground (he's like a cosmic Spider-Man... with fighting skills), and in the air.

Bah, too many to keep track of.
The one in this fight though, is dead, I believe right now.

Edit.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Ah...

Ya, buh, I'm talking about if this attack hits.
I mean, he can dodge on ground (he's like a cosmic Spider-Man... with fighting skills), and in the air.

Bah, too many to keep track of.
The one in this fight though, is dead, I believe right now.

Mac can absorb any energy and manipulate that it once he obtains it's frequency as he brutally punked Doom deactivating his shield in a second. Also to note Mac has a computer for a brain.

We actually don't know that as there was two James Hudson running around, and one was a temporal copy of the original. We don't even know if any Alpha Flight members are even dead as most of the members who fought the Collective had a copy

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Mac can absorb any energy and manipulate that it once he obtains it's frequency as he brutally punked Doom deactivating his shield in a second. Also to note Mac has a computer for a brain.

We actually don't know that as there was two James Hudson running around, and one was a temporal copy of the original. We don't even know if any Alpha Flight members are even dead as most of the members who fought the Collective had a copy Mar-Vell has always been more of a physical person, although his blasts are pretty powerful.
So, if he can control the energy that Mar-Vell shoots, it won't exactly be the end.

Plus, Mar-Vell can also do that.
http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1099947/captainmarvel06212.jpg http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1099948/captainmarvel06213.jpg

Plus, couldn't the Doombot/clone fiasco be attributed to the fact that the Guardian Suit is robotic, as well as Doom?
Sending off signals, etc.
Also, didn't he say he can override all electromagnetic frequencies, once he's accessed their wavelengths (ya, I'm reading the scan...).
Mar-Vell's bands aren't exactly that.

Wouldn't they eventually show up though, sometime, if they found out all their clones were killed, and Sassy was with them?

Mar-Vell is more than capable of handling Guardian. As we saw Guardian is a strong opponent but only if he is debated right. Mar-Vell regularly faced cosmic related threats as far as I'm concerned Marv can take Guardian.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Mar-Vell has always been more of a physical person, although his blasts are pretty powerful.
So, if he can control the energy that Mar-Vell shoots, it won't exactly be the end.

Guardian is no sloutch in the physical department stopping a commerical airline falling using one hand and without struggling, and going toe to toe with Wonder Man and holding back as Guardian didn't want to hurt him. Even his shields have withstood a nuke

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

Plus, Mar-Vell can also do that.
http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1099947/captainmarvel06212.jpg http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1099948/captainmarvel06213.jpg

Doing that against Klaw

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight121-17.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight121-18.jpg
3. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight121-19.jpg

This is Heather who uses the same suit and is actually weaker and can't do the same things Mac can do.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

Plus, couldn't the Doombot/clone fiasco be attributed to the fact that the Guardian Suit is robotic, as well as Doom?
Sending off signals, etc.

No, he accessed the frequency of Doom's shields and shut them off. Once Doom teleported away, Guardian using his energy tracking knew he used his time travel device as a form of teleportation. That nothing nothing to do with being a robot

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-18.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-19.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-20.jpg

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

Also, didn't he say he can override all electromagnetic frequencies, once he's accessed their wavelengths (ya, I'm reading the scan...).
Mar-Vell's bands aren't exactly that.

Thier not, and he won't over-ride them as the Nega Bands can absorb infinite amounts of energy far more then Guardian. However, Mac has shown to actually shut people's brains off manipulating their brain frequency. I definetly can see Mar-Vell taking the majority but it's not going to be easy

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/alpha_flight_93_Mac.jpg

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

Wouldn't they eventually show up though, sometime, if they found out all their clones were killed, and Sassy was with them?

Sasquatch didn't have a clone and no idea, the real versions are suppose to be in space on the Plodex homeworld while the temporal copies protected the world while they were gone. They might not even know yet

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Guardian is no sloutch in the physical department stopping a commerical airline falling using one hand and without struggling, and going toe to toe with Wonder Man and holding back as Guardian didn't want to hurt him. Even his shields have withstood a nuke It's not really his strength that would be the issue , it's his fighting skills.
Hell, he was able to take it to the Classic Drax on the ground, because of them, and that was while he was weaker (only had one band).

Wasn't Heather on the verge of getting taken down, and then only hit him once?



Originally posted by King_Mungi
Doing that against Klaw

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight121-17.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight121-18.jpg
3. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight121-19.jpg

This is Heather who uses the same suit and is actually weaker and can't do the same things Mac can do. Isn't that basically like absorbing sound?



Originally posted by King_Mungi
No, he accessed the frequency of Doom's shields and shut them off. Once Doom teleported away, Guardian using his energy tracking knew he used his time travel device as a form of teleportation. That nothing nothing to do with being a robot

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-18.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-19.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-20.jpg
A clone then.

Ya but, the main point, was that, everything about that, had to do with his control over electromagnetic frequencies and wavelengths, is what I was getting at.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Thier not, and he won't over-ride them as the Nega Bands can absorb infinite amounts of energy far more then Guardian. However, Mac has shown to actually shut people's brains off manipulating their brain frequency. I definetly can see Mar-Vell taking the majority but it's not going to be easy

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/alpha_flight_93_Mac.jpg
I've never seen anyone try to shut off his mind (that I can remember), so I can't really comment on how well that would work.

Plus, I never even said it would be easy, or that Mar-Vell would win with a definite approach.

Just tried to create an actual debate, that didn't center around mainstream heroes, and repeat threads.



Originally posted by King_Mungi
Sasquatch didn't have a clone and no idea, the real versions are suppose to be in space on the Plodex homeworld while the temporal copies protected the world while they were gone. They might not even know yet I never said Sassy knew, just that, if they were monitoring them (going by speculation), then they should by nature, have intervened.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
It's not really his strength that would be the issue , it's his fighting skills.
Hell, he was able to take it to the Classic Drax on the ground, because of them, and that was while he was weaker (only had one band).

Wasn't Heather on the verge of getting taken down, and then only hit him once?

US Agent had ko'ed Ronan with a hit, meh! Typically Guardian fights more energy and overall powerful oppoents not the ones that rely on melee. So we don't have much to go by in the physical manner

Here's the fight, she was holding back even revealed holding back physically in the next issue as she didn't want to hurt the controlled WM

1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-07.jpg
2. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-08.jpg
3. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-13.jpg

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

Isn't that basically like absorbing sound?

Yeah, Mac and Heather have absorbed energy into their system in the past it was to show Guardian can absorb something raw like sound from Klaw who is made from sound and send it back stronger then what he dished out

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

A clone then.

Ya but, the main point, was that, everything about that, had to do with his control over electromagnetic frequencies and wavelengths, is what I was getting at.


It wasn't a clone

Which is correct, but you made the assumption he did it because he was a robot and Doom's armor was mechanical so that's why he did what he did, which just isn't the case

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

I've never seen anyone try to shut off his mind (that I can remember), so I can't really comment on how well that would work.

Plus, I never even said it would be easy, or that Mar-Vell would win with a definite approach.

Just tried to create an actual debate, that didn't center around mainstream heroes, and repeat threads.

Never said you did, and even I can't make the claim for Guardian just pointing out facts.

Which is completly fine, as these two character typically don't get used in debates.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

I never said Sassy knew, just that, if they were monitoring them (going by speculation), then they should by nature, have intervened.

They wern't monitoring them, their hundreds of lightyears away from Earth.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
US Agent had ko'ed Ronan with a hit, meh! Typically Guardian fights more energy and overall powerful oppoents not the ones that rely on melee. So we don't have much to go by in the physical manner

Here's the fight, she was holding back even revealed holding back physically in the next issue as she didn't want to hurt the controlled WM

1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-07.jpg
2. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-08.jpg
3. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-13.jpg
That's like... his lowest showing...

Mar-Vell likes both, but seems to like melee more.
Also, here's Mar-Vell punking Drax on the ground. He gets up in the next page, but Mar-Vell only had one band.
http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096589/captainmarvel4309.jpg http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096590/captainmarvel4310.jpg http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096591/captainmarvel4311.jpg http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1096592/captainmarvel4312.jpg

He's also stalemated him in the air as well.

Like I said, it would be like fighting an extremely fast, stronger, better fighting, flying, etc Spider-Man.

Plus, she only hit him like twice there.


Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yeah, Mac and Heather have absorbed energy into their system in the past it was to show Guardian can absorb something raw like sound from Klaw who is made from sound and send it back stronger then what he dished out OK.




Originally posted by King_Mungi
It wasn't a clone

Which is correct, but you made the assumption he did it because he was a robot and Doom's armor was mechanical so that's why he did what he did, which just isn't the case I'm saying clone, as in, it wasn't actually Doom.
Worded wrong, but it's there.

Well, it's partially, since that's usually what robotic suits use, or give off. Signals, wavelengths, etc.

Just trying to point out the differences between that, and this fight.



Originally posted by King_Mungi
Never said you did, and even I can't make the claim for Guardian just pointing out facts.

Which is completly fine, as these two character typically don't get used in debates. Twas just saying, that out of all the people that give Vell the victory, I might be the only one still seeing how he can win.





Originally posted by King_Mungi
They wern't monitoring them, their hundreds of lightyears away from Earth. OK, that settles that.

I'll get back tommorow as I'm heading out for the night..typical bar star night

ciao

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
That's like... his lowest showing...

Mar-Vell likes both, but seems to like melee more.
Also, here's Mar-Vell punking Drax on the ground. He gets up in the next page, but Mar-Vell only had one band.
http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096589/captainmarvel4309.jpg http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096590/captainmarvel4310.jpg http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096591/captainmarvel4311.jpg http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1096592/captainmarvel4312.jpg

He's also stalemated him in the air as well.

Like I said, it would be like fighting an extremely fast, stronger, better fighting, flying, etc Spider-Man.

Plus, she only hit him like twice there.

Hardly if Guardian went all out she even could have killed him quite easily. Even one plasma burst from Heather killed Sasquatch easily. Like I mentioned that was Heather who even in that suit was still not as skilled as James Hudson before his upgrade in the suit. Mac then later got upgraded to fight Galactus and all his stats shot right up. I can't say how Mac in his upgraded form will do in physical combat as he doesn't need to go in a physical combat. They say he has excellent hand to hand abilities though

I'm not worried about Mac's reflexes:
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_088_09.jpg

or even speed
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_090_03.jpg

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

I'm saying clone, as in, it wasn't actually Doom.
Worded wrong, but it's there.

Well, it's partially, since that's usually what robotic suits use, or give off. Signals, wavelengths, etc.

Just trying to point out the differences between that, and this fight.

If it wasn't the real Doom, then it was Kristoff Vernard who was basically like the real Doom anyways

But he didn't register the wavelength from the armor, but the forcefield that he rasied just for that fight and he picked it up instantly. Even Mac registered the frequency of Headlok's mind control and blocked it and freed everyone who was under his control and prevented him from controlling anyone else. Headlok has no mechnicaly suit, he is just a high level telepath

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

Twas just saying, that out of all the people that give Vell the victory, I might be the only one still seeing how he can win.




Which is completly fine, as myself I can see Mar-Vel taking the majority but it would be close. Mac would have to use his other tricks such as his "teleportation" trick and his various other powers. Technically he could BFR, as he even did it to Quasar, Her, Sersi and they couldn't do anything to stop him.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Hardly if Guardian went all out she even could have killed him quite easily. Even one plasma burst from Heather killed Sasquatch easily. Like I mentioned that was Heather who even in that suit was still not as skilled as James Hudson before his upgrade in the suit. Mac then later got upgraded to fight Galactus and all his stats shot right up. I can't say how Mac in his upgraded form will do in physical combat as he doesn't need to go in a physical combat. They say he has excellent hand to hand abilities though

I'm not worried about Mac's reflexes:
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_088_09.jpg

or even speed
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_090_03.jpg
No, I mean that's Ronan's lowest showing.

Also, Wonder Man, was like, immortal, and indestructible back then. I'm not sure she could have killed him.

Never said his reflexes weren't good.
Although I'm not sure how he'd react to something like this (speed wise, although it's just a simple attack, and it would work well to match Guardian's power):
http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096605/captainmarvel04405.jpg http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096606/captainmarvel04406.jpg

Anyway, this could stop him teleporting behind Marv (if that's what you were getting at).
He senses attacks before he can see them.
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/2329/08deathofcapmarvelgnkb4.th.jpg

And here he is using it in the middle of battle.
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/7453/10deathofcapmarvelgndt5.th.jpg






Originally posted by King_Mungi
If it wasn't the real Doom, then it was Kristoff Vernard who was basically like the real Doom anyways

But he didn't register the wavelength from the armor, but the forcefield that he rasied just for that fight and he picked it up instantly. Even Mac registered the frequency of Headlok's mind control and blocked it and freed everyone who was under his control and prevented him from controlling anyone else. Headlok has no mechnicaly suit, he is just a high level telepath Bah, there is only one Doom.

But, the field comes from Doom's suit.

I was just talking about the instance of the Doom scene though.
If he can do it to others, then fine.



Originally posted by King_Mungi
Which is completly fine, as myself I can see Mar-Vel taking the majority but it would be close. Mac would have to use his other tricks such as his "teleportation" trick and his various other powers. Technically he could BFR, as he even did it to Quasar, Her, Sersi and they couldn't do anything to stop him. About the teleportion... were they actually fighting him, when he did this? Like how this battle would be?
Also, I know Mar-Vell was able to teleporting, after his first upgrade.
I'm not sure if he still has it (they never technically got rid of it), but if he does, I'm not sure BFR is really an option.
http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/972381/captainmarvel1202.jpg

galan_cap_marvel

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
No, I mean that's Ronan's lowest showing.

Also, Wonder Man, was like, immortal, and indestructible back then. I'm not sure she could have killed him.

Never said his reflexes weren't good.
Although I'm not sure how he'd react to something like this (speed wise, although it's just a simple attack, and it would work well to match Guardian's power):
http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096605/captainmarvel04405.jpg http://i80.imagethrust.com/t/1096606/captainmarvel04406.jpg

Anyway, this could stop him teleporting behind Marv (if that's what you were getting at).
He senses attacks before he can see them.
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/2329/08deathofcapmarvelgnkb4.th.jpg

And here he is using it in the middle of battle.
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/7453/10deathofcapmarvelgndt5.th.jpg

Meh! I have seen other Ronan low showings, but I digress as were getting from the point

Why? Heather even defeated Elder Gods manifesations, and Wonder Man has died so many times now it's ridiculous

I don't see that working at all, especially when Mac can reach speeds faster then light actually capable of going 5,000 years into the past when he access the suits full power. Plus his shields sort of prevent that, like I mentioned him and Guardian III encased an entire building and used their shields to block a nuclear explosion.

Pausing and focusing that manner would be a HUGE mistake against such a seasoned vet like Mac who has amazing power, reflexes and speed. Captain Marvel is far from untouchable.

Guardian has superior speed and reflexes compared to those people Marvel did it to. Even the last scan Marvel commented it was clumsy attack, which Guardian's attack wouldn't be

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

Bah, there is only one Doom.

But, the field comes from Doom's suit.

I was just talking about the instance of the Doom scene though.
If he can do it to others, then fine.

Once again Doom having a suit had nothing to do with Guardian's ability to do what he did. He can access the wavelengths of any E-M field and shut it down, mechanical or not.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman

About the teleportion... were they actually fighting him, when he did this? Like how this battle would be?
Also, I know Mar-Vell was able to teleporting, after his first upgrade.
I'm not sure if he still has it (they never technically got rid of it), but if he does, I'm not sure BFR is really an option.
http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/972381/captainmarvel1202.jpg

No, but even if they were there wouldn't be anything they could do as he literally did it instantly as Hercules was in mid-sentence on Earth and finished the same sentence in another dimension. Literally teleported 8 people in a blink of an eye

The dimension was extremely hard to locate and escape from that's why the Qwrlln picked this dimension as a means to flee from Galactus. He wouldn't have found them if he wasn't for his Hearld that got teleported with the planet so he tracked her. I can't recall Marvel ever doing an inter-dimensional teleportation.