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Can you be in love with one person, and still have sex with another, and still love that other person fully?

Yes.

ugh

please exit the internet

God yes.

Yes. You can **** somebody without loving or caring for them. Pretty retarded question.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Yes.

Of course not.




























































If you think I wasn't being sarcastic when I said "Of course not.", kill yourself.

Optional..some engage sex even they not love someone....

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Yes. so if you are with someone, and you love them with all of your heart, and they have sex with another guy, it is fine? you would be fine with this?

What a dumb ass question. People fukc people everyday it's not whether they love them or not it's whether they are turned on by that person. But I think if you are with someone fully with someone and love them then that she be the only person you are even thinking about having sex with.. you should commit yourself to that person you love. Not start getting involved with other people.

Sex and Love are not the same thing. Sex does not = Love, just like Love does not = sex.


People cheat for many reasons, and its not always because they didn't love thier partner. Reasons can vary from insecurity, anger, or sexual boredom, attraction to another


Just because you are in Love does not mean you stop finding other people attractive. On top of that, just because you are in Love doesn't mean you will be entirely sexually satisfied.


I am not condoning cheating, please do not get me wrong, but a relationship is a committment, and commitments are not simple. They take consistant dedication from both partners.


Sex, in essense, has always been about two things: Pleasure and Pro-creation. The attachment of sex to love is something that society has manufactured and cannot be backed up by nature. Most animals in the wild have multiple partners.


Likewise, it is natural to have sex with more than one partner, however, the act of commitment to one is something that we have instilled upon our own culture and urge others to follow.


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*******


Rogue Jedi, I understand where you are coming from, but you have to remember not everyone is as sensitive and sentimental about relationships like you are, especially other men. And the sentiments you value are not the same sentiments that others value.


Let me ask you: What would you think if you fell in a love with a girl, and she was entirely sexually committed to you. She only got naked with you, she only kissed and had sex with you.

However, she doesn't engage in extensive conversation with you. She talks a LOT to other men and women, and laughs a lot with other people, but with you she's kinda stale, and the sex is the only thing she gives you exclusively.

She gives others more attention than she gives you, even though she only has sex with you.

Now...would you feel she was cheating on you ? Why or why not ?

^^^^ Wow, Urizen, you surprised me on that one. This was not the kind of response I would expect from you. No mention of oily man's asses or anything. clap

Originally posted by botankus
^^^^ Wow, Urizen, you surprised me on that one. This was not the kind of response I would expect from you. No mention of oily man's asses or anything. clap


I can be serious when I feel like being serious

Originally posted by vinz07
Can you be in love with one person, and still have sex with another, and still love that other person fully?

First, Sex does NOT equal love.

Secondly, the answer to your question: No.

The only loophole in this argument is if you've never slept with the person that you're in love with AND they don't know that you're in love with them.

People love in different ways, and people have different values, do you guys not understand that ?



Polygomy and Threesome Relationships Do exist you know, and people who invest in that are generally as happy as those of us who practice monogomy.


Just because a person has sex with another partner does not mean they don't love you.


Like I said before, someone can remain sexually loyal to you, but give far more attention to others than you. And the question of "True Love" will still arise.


It's far more complicated than that, the world of romance, sex, and love is not Black and White.

You raise an interesting point, Kali.

I'm happily married to a fanstatic woman. Just because I give my female coworkers more attention and flirt with them (for office banter sake) in a manner I do not with my wife, does not mean that I like them more, nor my wife less, does it?

However, I do understand what you're getting at. In essence, we're finding exceptions to the rule though.

Originally posted by BobbyD
You raise an interesting point, Kali.

I'm happily married to a fanstatic woman. Just because I give my female coworkers more attention and flirt with them (for office banter sake) in a manner I do not with my wife, does not mean that I like them more, nor my wife less, does it?

However, I do understand what you're getting at. In essence, we're finding exceptions to the rule though.



People love in different ways is my point, and "monogomy" is a human constructed practice, it's not something Nature lead the way for.


That does not in anyway, decrease the value of monogomy, but everyone has different values and priorities, and when two people are together, in order for the relationship to work, those mutual values have to be respected.


A person can have sex with someone, and still not care whether or not that person lives or dies. I know that's scary, but it's unfortunately true. Sex is not Love.

Sex is just Sex. And Sex, to one person, may be an expression of love, while to another person it may just be "sexy time".


And honestly, i would rather a boyfriend of mine have sex with another guy, then volunarily spend more time with another guy. I can forgive if my boyfreind messes around with a really hott guy, because I too have a problem resisting sex if the guy is very attractive, but it would totally hurt my feelings if my boyfreind went on a vacation with another guy freind instead of me (even if they didn't have sex).


I value commitment, company, attention, and honesty more so than sexual loyalty.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali




Rogue Jedi, I understand where you are coming from, but you have to remember not everyone is as sensitive and sentimental about relationships like you are, especially other men. And the sentiments you value are not the same sentiments that others value.


Let me ask you: What would you think if you fell in a love with a girl, and she was entirely sexually committed to you. She only got naked with you, she only kissed and had sex with you.

However, she doesn't engage in extensive conversation with you. She talks a LOT to other men and women, and laughs a lot with other people, but with you she's kinda stale, and the sex is the only thing she gives you exclusively.

She gives others more attention than she gives you, even though she only has sex with you.

Now...would you feel she was cheating on you ? Why or why not ? Yup, thats cheating emotionally, just as bad as physical cheating. I have suffered through emotional AND physical cheating in a previous relationship. Unfortunately, some people fail to realize what they have right in front of them. And no matter how much you reach out to them, they shut you out, and inevitably seek comfort in the arms and/or company of another. Makes you wonder why you ever wasted your time. But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? And I am stronger now, a better person for it, in a VERY good place. Growing pains, I guess.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I value commitment, company, attention, and honesty more so than sexual loyalty.



The same is true for when you get married......because there is no more sex.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yup, thats cheating emotionally, just as bad as physical cheating. I have suffered through emotional AND physical cheating in a previous relationship. Unfortunately, some people fail to realize what they have right in front of them. And no matter how much you reach out to them, they shut you out, and inevitably seek comfort in the arms and/or company of another. Makes you wonder why you ever wasted your time. But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? And I am stronger now, a better person for it, in a VERY good place. Growing pains, I guess.



I understand completely, and yes these kinds of things do make you more resistant.

Sometimes someone can Love you, but that's not enough. I love my family members, and they love me, but we almost always argue.


Two people can fall in love, but find out how incompatable they actually are together. There may always be something that you or the other person will not stand for.

And you didn't waste your time. You learned a lot, and you had those experiences, and in the end that is all you might ever have.

I've had a lot of crap happen in the past with other guys, but at the same time I still treasure those memories. I am glad that I still met some of those guys, and got to know who they are, as oppose to never having met him and not knowing.

Damn, Urizen, this must be a sensitive topic for you. Still no mention of oily asses!

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I understand completely, and yes these kinds of things do make you more resistant.

Sometimes someone can Love you, but that's not enough. I love my family members, and they love me, but we almost always argue.


Two people can fall in love, but find out how incompatable they actually are together. There may always be something that you or the other person will not stand for.

And you didn't waste your time. You learned a lot, and you had those experiences, and in the end that is all you might ever have.

I've had a lot of crap happen in the past with other guys, but at the same time I still treasure those memories. I am glad that I still met some of those guys, and got to know who they are, as oppose to never having met him and not knowing. Nah, it was a waste of time. If I could take it back, I would.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, it was a waste of time. If I could take it back, I would.


You wouldn't be as strong as you are now, though.


If it wasn't her, it would have been another woman.

Now you will be more selective about who you dedicate yourself to, instead of giving yourself to the pretty girl who made you feel good (this is not a jab at you, but a lesson you should not forget)

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if you are with someone, and you love them with all of your heart, and they have sex with another guy, it is fine? you would be fine with this? I would if it's me they loved and cared about me more, and is better with me.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
You wouldn't be as strong as you are now, though.


If it wasn't her, it would have been another woman.

Now you will be more selective about who you dedicate yourself to, instead of giving yourself to the pretty girl who made you feel good (this is not a jab at you, but a lesson you should not forget) I dont think we ae talking about the same person, although the similarities are mind blowing.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I dont think we ae talking about the same person, although the similarities are mind blowing.

How so ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
How so ? means both women did the same thing, or at least very similar.

the answer to the question for thr significant majorit of the human race. no. you should not sleep with any1 else if you love a person and are with them. commitment is a sign of willingness.

and in all true love, i believe, spontaneity{hope im spellin it right} is not the only thing that comes to play. TRULY loving sum1 also mean choosing to love them and devote them{im not saying FORCING yourself to, but choosing to if you can without forcing. i dont htink going gaga at first sight suffices}.

hence choosing to be loyal to them is part of love{it shudnt be that hard though if you ARE in love}. also, knowing that sleeping with sum1 else can cause hurt to the other person, or if not that, can cause complications which will strain the relationship in the long run, is reason enough to stay away from such things if you love the other person truly.
{and i VERY much doubt any person can claim to be in a relationship, polygamous or otherwise, where sleeping with another person does not hurt their mate at all or put a strain on the relaitonship in the long run due to complications}. that is how i interpret it. making a mistake is one thing{which u shud be sorry for} but willingly doing it, neglectful of the shortcoming is ignorance.

on the other hand{the way MOST people are interpreting the question here}. you can love sum1 without having sex with them{actually, at higher levels of TRUE love, sex isnt a personal priority because complete unselfishness is a must for such a state}, and you can have sex with sum1 without loving em. no problem there, as long as both parties agree for the sake of pleasure, its awseome. however, theres nothing like having sex with a person you truly love.

it far surpasses any bliss just sex can provide.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the answer to the question for thr significant majorit of the human race. no. you should not sleep with any1 else if you love a person and are with them. commitment is a sign of willingness.

and in all true love, i believe, spontaneity{hope im spellin it right} is not the only thing that comes to play. TRULY loving sum1 also mean choosing to love them and devote them{im not saying FORCING yourself to, but choosing to if you can without forcing. i dont htink going gaga at first sight suffices}.

hence choosing to be loyal to them is part of love{it shudnt be that hard though if you ARE in love}. also, knowing that sleeping with sum1 else can cause hurt to the other person, or if not that, can cause complications which will strain the relationship in the long run, is reason enough to stay away from such things if you love the other person truly.
{and i VERY much doubt any person can claim to be in a relationship, polygamous or otherwise, where sleeping with another person does not hurt their mate at all or put a strain on the relaitonship in the long run due to complications}. that is how i interpret it. making a mistake is one thing{which u shud be sorry for} but willingly doing it, neglectful of the shortcoming is ignorance.

on the other hand{the way MOST people are interpreting the question here}. you can love sum1 without having sex with them{actually, at higher levels of TRUE love, sex isnt a personal priority because complete unselfishness is a must for such a state}, and you can have sex with sum1 without loving em. no problem there, as long as both parties agree for the sake of pleasure, its awseome. however, theres nothing like having sex with a person you truly love.

it far surpasses any bliss just sex can provide. very good post.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
means both women did the same thing, or at least very similar.


If I could tell you how many men had thier way with me, and then left, I'd be making an extensive JIA-length post.


At this point, I just realized...sex is just sex, and only has as much value as the person puts into it.


I do not view sex as an expression of love, although It CAN be.


Little things like showing up in time, calling every day, giving cards, flowers, gifts of any sort..those are expressions of love as well, and sometimes those hold more value.



I don't mean to go off subject, but you can't stop trying and stop trusting. If you close off, you may miss out on a good catch.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If I could tell you how many men had thier way with me, and then left, I'd be making an extensive JIA-length post.


At this point, I just realized...sex is just sex, and only has as much value as the person puts into it.


I do not view sex as an expression of love, although It CAN be.


Little things like showing up in time, calling every day, giving cards, flowers, gifts of any sort..those are expressions of love as well, and sometimes those hold more value.



I don't mean to go off subject, but you can't stop trying and stop trusting. If you close off, you may miss out on a good catch.

Awh, you're a real romantic!

I have a question for you, though. Do you think that sex is important factor in a loving relationship? Can you have a good relationship with bad sex?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Awh, you're a real romantic!

I have a question for you, though. Do you think that sex is important factor in a loving relationship? Can you have a good relationship with bad sex?



If I am not having any sex in the relationship, then I won't really be happy. Yes, sex is an important part of the relationship, but it's not the focus. It's a mutual practice, and only as important as the two people value it.


But more to the point, I would rather have "bad sex" with someone I realllllly love, then "awesome sex" with someone I am not connected to at all.


I've had amazing sex before, and honestly, I value commitment and companionship far more. Also, If I'm sexually bored, I know a lot of self-pleasing techniques that can compensate for that
droolio

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Awh, you're a real romantic!

I have a question for you, though. Do you think that sex is important factor in a loving relationship? Can you have a good relationship with bad sex? nope. a successful relationship has to have good sex, because deep down we all desire and require sex. this goes for young people, anyways. people who are up in years, 60 and 70, it is different.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
nope. a successful relationship has to have good sex, because deep down we all desire and require sex. this goes for young people, anyways. people who are up in years, 60 and 70, it is different.


A relationship does not need to have "good" sex, as long as thier is "okay" sex, then it can last.



Like I already said, if and when my partner cannot sexually satisfy me, I can do so myself and probably better


There are other voids he needs to fill (no pun intended)

Originally posted by vinz07
Can you be in love with one person, and still have sex with another, and still love that other person fully?

No.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No.


why not ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
A relationship does not need to have "good" sex, as long as thier is "okay" sex, then it can last.



Like I already said, if and when my partner cannot sexually satisfy me, I can do so myself and probably better


There are other voids he needs to fill (no pun intended) as long as it satisfies your partner, it's passable.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
why not ?

If you truly love someone, then you would not have sex with someone else.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If you truly love someone, then you would not have sex with someone else. thank you. a question though, does this go for cybersex and/or internet affairs as well?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thank you. a question though, does this go for cybersex and/or internet affairs as well?

Of course. Emotional or physical, it is still infidelity.

The intimate nature of the communication and the emotional investment made by the people involved, place an emotional affair on the same level as traditional cheating.

They result in the same negative consequences that any type infidelity does.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Do you think that sex is important factor in a loving relationship?

Yes.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Can you have a good relationship with bad sex?

No.

Originally posted by Storm
The intimate nature of the communication and the emotional investment made by the people involved, place an emotional affair on the same level as traditional cheating.

They result in the same negative consequences that any type infidelity does.

Owned.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Of course. Emotional or physical, it is still infidelity. wow...I have REALLY been screwed over then. What a waste of time.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If you truly love someone, then you would not have sex with someone else.



How do you know this applies to all people ?




Do you think all Love is the same ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
How do you know this applies to all people ?




Do you think all Love is the same ? If you are in a committed relationship it applies. If you are in a relationship where you love the other person and dont care if they have sex with others, you have an open relationship, you are a swinger.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If you are in a committed relationship it applies. If you are in a relationship where you love the other person and dont care if they have sex with others, you have an open relationship, you are a swinger.



Have you ever insulted, put down, fought with, argued with, lied to, brushed aside, was annoyed by, annoyed, or consider second a person you love ?



Have you ever given your mother or father a really hard time over something ? I'm sure you have.


Does that mean you don't love them?




Have you ever yelled at your girlfreind ? Have you ever made her cry?


Does that mean you don't love her ?


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Rogue Jedi


People cheat for different reasons, and it's not always because they didn't love the person they cheated on.

Sex is not Love, and people need to stop speaking interchangable about the two. Someone can lust for you, have long and imtimate sex with you, and still not give a shit whether you live or die the next day.


Likewise, someone can be sexually unsatisfied with you (for whatever reason) but still hold you dearest in thier life. Still trust you more than anyone else, and still think of you ALL the time.



Adam Poe, I understand where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you haven't been involved with too many other guys. Else you would realize how different people are from one another.



Some guys see Sex as nothing more than a practice, and do not hold it to the same standards as others.


If a guy is abusive with you, does that mean he doesn't love you ? Did you ever consider that maybe he grew up in a way which effected his mentality and personality, and that his anger and insecurity is more powerful than his affections ?


Likewise, if a guy cheats on you, there could be many other underlying reasons, some of which even he may not understand.


To write it off as "oh he didn't love me" is an easy way out, and a black and white conclusion to a truly grey problem.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Have you ever insulted, put down, fought with, argued with, lied to, brushed aside, was annoyed by, annoyed, or consider second a person you love ?



Have you ever given your mother or father a really hard time over something ? I'm sure you have.


Does that mean you don't love them?




Have you ever yelled at your girlfreind ? Have you ever made her cry?


Does that mean you don't love her ?


**************************************************
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Rogue Jedi


People cheat for different reasons, and it's not always because they didn't love the person they cheated on.

Sex is not Love, and people need to stop speaking interchangable about the two. Someone can lust for you, have long and imtimate sex with you, and still not give a shit whether you live or die the next day.


Likewise, someone can be sexually unsatisfied with you (for whatever reason) but still hold you dearest in thier life. Still trust you more than anyone else, and still think of you ALL the time.



Adam Poe, I understand where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you haven't been involved with too many other guys. Else you would realize how different people are from one another.



Some guys see Sex as nothing more than a practice, and do not hold it to the same standards as others.


If a guy is abusive with you, does that mean he doesn't love you ? Did you ever consider that maybe he grew up in a way which effected his mentality and personality, and that his anger and insecurity is more powerful than his affections ?


Likewise, if a guy cheats on you, there could be many other underlying reasons, some of which even he may not understand.


To write it off as "oh he didn't love me" is an easy way out, and a black and white conclusion to a truly grey problem.

I understand where you are coming from in your long ass diatribe.

Let me give an example of what he means...just ONE of the things he means....


I knew this dude who loved to watch his buddies have sex with his girl...he would invite his buds over to have sex with his girl friend while he watched and masturbated...for someone reason...this got his rocks off...this is what he wanted...was that love? Yes...his girlfriend accomdated his sexual needs by having sex with this weird guy's buddies. She didn't want to do it at first but he told her that this is what he really wanted and she agreed to it ONLY because she loved him and wanted him to be happy AND sexually happy in the relationship. (I knew the girl first...she is a very very conservative person and I would have never pictured her agreeing to this...she only did this out of love for him.) They later broke up over complex money problems but this truly was a unique situation.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I knew this dude who loved to watch his buddies have sex with his girl...he would invite his buds over to have sex with his girl friend while he watched and masturbated...for someone reason...this got his rocks off...this is what he wanted...was that love? Yes...his girlfriend accomdated his sexual needs by having sex with this weird guy's buddies. She didn't want to do it at first but he told her that this is what he really wanted and she agreed to it ONLY because she loved him and wanted him to be happy AND sexually happy in the relationship. They later broke up over complex money problems but this truly was a unique situation.



That doesn't negate what I said. People love in different ways, and even when someone is in love, their standards and values differ from another who is in love.




Love is not always enough. There are other factors that contribute to a successful relationship.



If I abandon a guy who has hurt me beyond reason, repeatedly, does that mean I never loved him ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
That doesn't negate what I said. People love in different ways, and even when someone is in love, their standards and values differ from another who is in love.




Love is not always enough. There are other factors that contribute to a successful relationship.



If I abandon a guy who has hurt me beyond reason, repeatedly, does that mean I never loved him ? Yes...you should have taken it like a ***** and not complained...everyone knows that

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes...you should have taken it like a ***** and not complained...everyone knows that



I cannot tell where you went from sarcasm to seriousness, or vise versa.




I think you get my point. Anyone can truly love someone, but still leave them.


If you can dump someone that you love, why is it impossible to cheat on someone you love ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I cannot tell where you went from sarcasm to seriousness, or vise versa.




I think you get my point. Anyone can truly love someone, but still leave them.


If you can dump someone that you love, why is it impossible to cheat on someone you love ?

I do get your point and I understand many of your points...you make a lot of good ones all of the time

and I was being sarcastic in that last post....hence the rolling of the eyes!!!!

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Have you ever insulted, put down, fought with, argued with, lied to, brushed aside, was annoyed by, annoyed, or consider second a person you love ?



Have you ever given your mother or father a really hard time over something ? I'm sure you have.


Does that mean you don't love them?




Have you ever yelled at your girlfreind ? Have you ever made her cry?


Does that mean you don't love her ?


**************************************************
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Rogue Jedi


People cheat for different reasons, and it's not always because they didn't love the person they cheated on.

Sex is not Love, and people need to stop speaking interchangable about the two. Someone can lust for you, have long and imtimate sex with you, and still not give a shit whether you live or die the next day.


Likewise, someone can be sexually unsatisfied with you (for whatever reason) but still hold you dearest in thier life. Still trust you more than anyone else, and still think of you ALL the time.



Adam Poe, I understand where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you haven't been involved with too many other guys. Else you would realize how different people are from one another.



Some guys see Sex as nothing more than a practice, and do not hold it to the same standards as others.


If a guy is abusive with you, does that mean he doesn't love you ? Did you ever consider that maybe he grew up in a way which effected his mentality and personality, and that his anger and insecurity is more powerful than his affections ?


Likewise, if a guy cheats on you, there could be many other underlying reasons, some of which even he may not understand.


To write it off as "oh he didn't love me" is an easy way out, and a black and white conclusion to a truly grey problem. insulting my girl or putting her down is not even close to being on the same league as cheating on them. you place trust in them to be faithful, and they are incapable of doing so.

you views on relationships are way out there, man. Once someone cheats on you, it's not a question of if they will do it again, but a question of WHEN they will do it again.

and I am afraid that if you TRULY love someone, you WILL NOT cheat on them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
insulting my girl or putting her down is not even close to being on the same league as cheating on them. you place trust in them to be faithful, and they are incapable of doing so.

you views on relationships are way out there, man. Once someone cheats on you, it's not a question of if they will do it again, but a question of WHEN they will do it again.

and I am afraid that if you TRULY love someone, you WILL NOT cheat on them.

Dude...sometimes...people really do change their ways and sometimes the cheating only happens once.

You have been cheated on, haven't you?

Too bad though...you seem like a really nice guy and that you would treat your woman right.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
insulting my girl or putting her down is not even close to being on the same league as cheating on them. you place trust in them to be faithful, and they are incapable of doing so.


And who are you to say that ?



Since when is cheating on someone the worst thing you can do to them ? Yeah its pretty rotten, and it hurts, but there are far worse things.


IF a person cheats on you, and then tells you that they don't feel the same about you anymore, then yes, move on.


If a person cheats on you, but then cries in apology, and constantly calls you afterwards, try to find out why they did it.....don't just conclude that you "know who they really are" and try to define thier emotions.







Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you views on relationships are way out there, man. Once someone cheats on you, it's not a question of if they will do it again, but a question of WHEN they will do it again.



It depends on the person. Everyone is different. Let's say my boyfreind is in another state for like a year, cuz of school, and i dont get to see him for a lil over a year, guess what..im gonna get REALLLY REALLY RAELLLLLLY horny and lonely.


I may not go as far as to have anal sex with another guy, but its very likely that i will be intimate or flirty with another available guy. Atleast until my boyfreind returns, and i just bet it'd be the same for him.



I would have used the guy for one time, and then disregard him once my bf returns..


Okay that's a horrible example lol



But the point is constistancy is important. You have to be together a lot for the relationship to stay strong. Distance, whether physical or emotional, is one of the many deterrents to any relationship, no matter how loving.




Do you ever watch porn when ur gf is not around ? Do you ever fantasize about another girl, atleast ONCE in a while, even when you are not single ?


OFcourse you do ! Does that mean you don't Love your girlfreind ?








Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and I am afraid that if you TRULY love someone, you WILL NOT cheat on them.



If you truly love someone, and you are secure that they truly love you back, and you are secure with yourself, and have a good self discipline, then yes you wont cheat on them.


But I have asked you before...



If I abandon a boyfreind because he has repeatedly hurt me beyond reason, does that mean I never loved him ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I understand where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you haven't been involved with too many other guys. Else you would realize how different people are from one another.

Do not be presumptuous.




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Some guys see Sex as nothing more than a practice, and do not hold it to the same standards as others.

How one views sex is incidental. If you truly loved someone, then you would not want to hurt him through infidelity.




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If a guy is abusive with you, does that mean he doesn't love you ? Did you ever consider that maybe he grew up in a way which effected his mentality and personality, and that his anger and insecurity is more powerful than his affections ?

It means that he does not love you enough.




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Likewise, if a guy cheats on you, there could be many other underlying reasons, some of which even he may not understand.


To write it off as "oh he didn't love me" is an easy way out, and a black and white conclusion to a truly grey problem.

It is not a gray issue; people do not live on good intentions. Imagine that your loved one has been struck by a car. That the driver did not intend to hurt your loved one does not change the fact that but for his actions, your loved one would not have been hurt.

Cheating on someone causes a deep emotional pain. It's akin to a form of rejection.

Emotional pain, to me is far worse than physical pain. Physical pain I can learn to ignore , traat and it goes away quickly. Emotional pain .. has damaged my character, really altered who I am in ways. I am not someone who can love a person and then even think about having sex with someone else. This was something that one of my ex's couldn't understand. She'd ask me about my sexual fantasies, who I imagined when we made love. I told her honestly that it was her...

I'm not a person who can have casual sex it's just not something that appeals to me.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If a guy is abusive with you, does that mean he doesn't love you ? Did you ever consider that maybe he grew up in a way which effected his mentality and personality, and that his anger and insecurity is more powerful than his affections ? That makes me think of Ranma from Ranma 1/2...

Originally posted by dadudemon
Dude...sometimes...people really do change their ways and sometimes the cheating only happens once.

You have been cheated on, haven't you?

Too bad though...you seem like a really nice guy and that you would treat your woman right. I treat them like they are the center of my universe. In the past, I have just made a habit of choosing the wrong ones. Some people just are not satisfied with one person, they constantly feel the need to be attention whores, to flirt to no ends, to flaunt themselves whenever they can. No sense of loyalty whatsoever.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Do not be presumptuous.




Umm....no offense, but you and your boyfreind make plenty presumptions about me




Originally posted by Adam_PoE
How one views sex is incidental. If you truly loved someone, then you would not want to hurt him through infidelity.




True, I wouldn't want to. But that is because I personally value sex as an expression of love, intimacy, at the very least intense attraction.


However, I could easily argue, using your own presented logic, that if you truly love someone you would never yell at them, or take out your anger on them.


We all know that's unrealistic. You will hurt the ones you love, some time in your life, because you are only human.


I do not hold on to anger. I beleive in Forgiveness, especially in the case where the person is suffering over what he did.








Originally posted by Adam_PoE
It means that he does not love you enough.




Really ? Maybe he has a rage problem.



Maybe he has mental or emotional baggage that is too overwhelming for him to simply bottle up. Maybe he is hurt beyond simple repair, and needs special attention to tend his condition.


Maybe he is super sensitive, and cannot contain his hurt, and therefore would take anything I said or did the wrong way.

Maybe his fear of losing me is so great, that he tries to control me so I can never leave.



It's likely that the same person who abuses me would be heartbroken and shattered when I left him. It's possible that he may feel guilt for years after I leave.


I recall myself completely insulting and attacking someone I was infatuated with, in a fit of anger and impatience. I didn't see him after that, and was heartbroken and depressed for the two years that followed.


In his eyes, I probably didn't like him enough, or probably thought low of him. He may very well imagine that I may even have hated him, or took pleasure in harming him.

What he will never know is that I loved him more than I loved myself, to the point where it drove me insane. He was all I thought about for three years, and I would have done anything for him.

But, because of his behavior towards me (long story), my bottled up hurt and anger vented in one emotional moment, and that basically destroyed everything.


In his eyes, I didn't love him. I was mean and cruel, and not interested in his well being. His eyes never saw the truth.





Originally posted by Adam_PoE
It is not a gray issue; people do not live on good intentions. Imagine that your loved one has been struck by a car. That the driver did not intend to hurt your loved one does not change the fact that but for his actions, your loved one would not have been hurt.



So if a driver hits my loved one, that means the driver hated my loved one ? That means the driver wanted to hurt my loved one ?



You can hurt someone, without meaning to or realizing it, and it doesn't mean you don't love them. All I can conclude is that you either:


1) Haven't seriously dated many men

or

2) All the men you dated have been the same

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm not a person who can have casual sex it's just not something that appeals to me.



But some people are. To some people, sex is just sex, and love is something else.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But some people are. To some people, sex is just sex, and love is something else. And that's fine for them. As I said it doesn't interest me.

So on a personal level the answer to the quesition is no, I can't. I realize its a royal form of the word and its possible for people to. But I just can't.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
However, I could easily argue, using your own presented logic, that if you truly love someone you would never yell at them, or take out your anger on them.


We all know that's unrealistic. You will hurt the ones you love, some time in your life, because you are only human. The difference is that its a lot harder to "accidently cheat" on someone then it is to accidently lose your temper and raise your voice.

Its usually why one offencse is more forgivable than another.

In any case you'd never want to tintentionally hurt them.... unless they were a masochist...

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
And who are you to say that ?



Since when is cheating on someone the worst thing you can do to them ? Yeah its pretty rotten, and it hurts, but there are far worse things.


IF a person cheats on you, and then tells you that they don't feel the same about you anymore, then yes, move on.


If a person cheats on you, but then cries in apology, and constantly calls you afterwards, try to find out why they did it.....don't just conclude that you "know who they really are" and try to define thier emotions.











It depends on the person. Everyone is different. Let's say my boyfreind is in another state for like a year, cuz of school, and i dont get to see him for a lil over a year, guess what..im gonna get REALLLY REALLY RAELLLLLLY horny and lonely.


I may not go as far as to have anal sex with another guy, but its very likely that i will be intimate or flirty with another available guy. Atleast until my boyfreind returns, and i just bet it'd be the same for him.



I would have used the guy for one time, and then disregard him once my bf returns..


Okay that's a horrible example lol



But the point is constistancy is important. You have to be together a lot for the relationship to stay strong. Distance, whether physical or emotional, is one of the many deterrents to any relationship, no matter how loving.




Do you ever watch porn when ur gf is not around ? Do you ever fantasize about another girl, atleast ONCE in a while, even when you are not single ?


OFcourse you do ! Does that mean you don't Love your girlfreind ?












If you truly love someone, and you are secure that they truly love you back, and you are secure with yourself, and have a good self discipline, then yes you wont cheat on them.


But I have asked you before...



If I abandon a boyfreind because he has repeatedly hurt me beyond reason, does that mean I never loved him ? cheating is the worst thing you can do to your partner, period. once they betray your trust, the damage is done.

so if your BF was gone and you got horny, you would cheat on them? wow...what a weak willed individual you are.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
cheating is the worst thing you can do to your partner, period. once they betray your trust, the damage is done.Cheating's pretty bad. but there are technically things that are worse usually those involve breaking laws, but there are subtle more psychological things you can do to damage a person that doesn't involve cheating on them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if your BF was gone and you got horny, you would cheat on them? wow...what a weak willed individual you are. "You weren't worth waiting for so I went out and just grabbed someone from off the street, they're just as good as you(you're not special)."

Actions speak louder than words sometimes. and that's certainly what I'd feel like I was saying in that scenerio.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Cheating's pretty bad. but there are technically things that are worse usually those involve breaking laws, but there are subtle more psychological things you can do to damage a person that doesn't involve cheating on them.Like cheating on them and the whole time telling you that you want to fix the problems in the relationship? stringing you along giving you false hope while the whole time they are seeking comfort in the arms of another? when they do this, they are trying to have their cake (their partner) and eat it too(their cohort in infedility.) when they do this, they are nothing more than skanks.

Even worse if you are right there at home waiting on them, or at work, while they are out cheating on you. "No, I promise you they are just my friend!!!!" PLEASE.......

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Like cheating on them and the whole time telling you that you want to fix the problems in the relationship? stringing you along giving you false hope while the whole time they are seeking comfort in the arms of another? when they do this, they are trying to have their cake (their partner) and eat it too(their cohort in infedility.) when they do this, they are nothing more than skanks.

Even worse if you are right there at home waiting on them, or at work, while they are out cheating on you. "No, I promise you they are just my friend!!!!" PLEASE....... Hmm... Did this happen to you?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Hmm... Did this happen to you? No, it's just a hypothetical situation.

Yes, of course they can be. Sex is a physical act, you don't have to feel any particular emotions for your partner. I think on that one we are all clear.



That's an odd question. For one I am not sure what constitutes as loving someone "fully". I think you can love and deeply care for someone and still have sex with other people yeah. It is hypothetically possible, I guess many people can not separate those two so that for them it means that they don't love the person they are with as much. But I think it can be separate and might even improve relationships on the whole if it was more accepted.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, of course they can be. Sex is a physical act, you don't have to feel any particular emotions for your partner. I think on that one we are all clear.



That's an odd question. For one I am not sure what constitutes as loving someone "fully". I think you can love and deeply care for someone and still have sex with other people yeah. It is hypothetically possible, I guess many people can not separate those two so that for them it means that they don't love the person they are with as much. But I think it can be separate and might even improve relationships on the whole if it was more accepted. listen to what you are saying. you are saying that it would be OK for another man to please your woman.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
listen to what you are saying. you are saying that it would be OK for another man to please your woman. Yes, I can read, thank you.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, I can read, thank you. and you would be fine with this. tell me you are joking. you would be fine with her going out, screwing some other guy, then coming back home to you.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and you would be fine with this. tell me you are joking. you would be fine with her going out, screwing some other guy, then coming back home to you. I think so, yes.

If she loves me. Of course fair is fair and I should probably be allowed to do the same.
But I figure that has to be discussed in the terms of this particular relationship contract.

Just because everyone assumes the standard, doesn't mean that there aren't alternatives.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think so, yes.

If she loves me. Of course fair is fair and I should probably be allowed to do the same.
But I figure that has to be discussed in the terms of this particular relationship contract.

Just because everyone assumes the standard, doesn't mean that there aren't alternatives. thats not a committed relationship. thats sleeping around, B. thats her not being satisfied with the sex you provide her, or vice versa.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thats not a committed relationship. thats sleeping around, B. thats her not being satisfied with the sex you provide her, or vice versa.

Well strictly speaking there are people with very liberal, "open" relationships. I would assume the people in them have an understanding and the nonexclusive nature of the physical side of the relationship works for them.

Now speaking personally that wouldn't work for me since my concepts of a personal relationship include a degree of exclusive commitment. I couldn't cheat on a partner and it would probably be it if a partner cheated on me because of my values in a relationship.

But at the same time I realise not everybody is the same. I don't think it is as easy as saying "thats not a committed relationship" since a relationship exists on more then a sexual level and some people might not put quite the same emphasis on sexual exclusivity.

Then there are things like threesomes and the so called "swingers" that apparently committed couples participate in, one assumes because in those cases they manage to separate trust, commitment and sex from one another. For them, so I've heard, the experience involving other people actually heightens their own happiness with their actual partner, adds to that side of the relationship. The minority perhaps, but they shouldn't be dismissed or their relationships somehow considered lesser.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well strictly speaking there are people with very liberal, "open" relationships. I would assume the people in them have an understanding and the nonexclusive nature of the physical side of the relationship works for them.

Now speaking personally that wouldn't work for me since my concepts of a personal relationship include a degree of exclusive commitment. I couldn't cheat on a partner and it would probably be it if a partner cheated on me because of my values in a relationship.

But at the same time I realise not everybody is the same. I don't think it is as easy as saying "thats not a committed relationship" since a relationship exists on more then a sexual level and some people might not put quite the same emphasis on sexual exclusivity.

Then there are things like threesomes and the so called "swingers" that apparently committed couples participate in, one assumes because in those cases they manage to separate trust, commitment and sex from one another. For them, so I've heard, the experience involving other people actually heightens their own happiness with their actual partner, adds to that side of the relationship. The minority perhaps, but they shouldn't be dismissed or their relationships somehow considered lesser. well then I guess Bardock would be fine if some guy nailed his lady. I guess he is a "swinger."

It's bullshit, but I guess feasible.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thats not a committed relationship. thats sleeping around, B. thats her not being satisfied with the sex you provide her, or vice versa. Nonsense.

That's like you saying I love apple pie so much I will never eat cheesecake again.

If you want to try other stuff why not. I'd rather have her **** a guy and come home to cuddle and talk with me than the other way around.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nonsense.

That's like you saying I love apple pie so much I will never eat cheesecake again.

If you want to try other stuff why not. I'd rather have her **** a guy and come home to cuddle and talk with me than the other way around. Hey, its not all about sex. I like the cudding too.

and comparing a relationship to food is a piss poor analogy.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nonsense.

That's like you saying I love apple pie so much I will never eat cheesecake again.

If you want to try other stuff why not. I'd rather have her **** a guy and come home to cuddle and talk with me than the other way around.

Thats true but since you used the word "rather", I bet you would prefer if she didnt do it all. I agree with you though.


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


and comparing a relationship to food is a piss poor analogy.

Your probably gonna get owned for that statement. nuts

Originally posted by Alfheim



Your probably gonna get owned for that statement. yellownuts explain.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats true but since you used the word "rather", I bet you would prefer if she didnt do it all. I agree with you though.




Your probably gonna get owned for that statement. nuts Yeah, just saying love and sex can be separate. I'd prefer her to just **** me ... but maybe others even find the thoughts of their partners ****ing someone else hot.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
explain.

Hes probably gonna come back and explain why its prefectly viable and call you an idiot. thorinnsrug

but we are talking about if you would be OK if your GF went out and shagged some guy, and said "It was just sex, and I love you,"

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, just saying love and sex can be separate. I'd prefer her to just **** me

What you have feeling? I thought you were a total unhibited sex freak?

Originally posted by Bardock42

... but maybe others even find the thoughts of their partners ****ing someone else hot.

True if it work them who are we to say its wrong.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
but we are talking about if you would be OK if your GF went out and shagged some guy, and said "It was just sex, and I love you,"

Well in this instance I thought we were talking about different attitudes to sex.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What you have feeling? I thought you were a total unhibited sex freak?



True if it work them who are we to say its wrong. thats the whole point of the debate, to point out our opinions.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, its not all about sex. I like the cudding too.

and comparing a relationship to food is a piss poor analogy. Well, we do have very different views on relationships I suppose. I was just answering the question.


I could of course try to get a reasonable answer out of you why your girl can only sleep with you, but I guess it would just be circular arguments over and over.

Something like "She can't sleep with another person because I don't want that and I don't want that she sleeps with another person because it is wrong to sleep with another person when you are in a relationship and it is wrong because I don't want that she sleeps with another person when in a relationship..."

It probably comes down to "RJ doesn't want his girl to **** someone else for jealousy reasons" ... and that's fine, whatever gets you through your day. But just don't tell people that your way is better without any reasons.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thats the whole point of the debate, to point out our opinions.

Yeah I know.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, we do have very different views on relationships I suppose. I was just answering the question.


I could of course try to get a reasonable answer out of you why your girl can only sleep with you, but I guess it would just be circular arguments over and over.

Something like "She can't sleep with another person because I don't want that and I don't want that she sleeps with another person because it is wrong to sleep with another person when you are in a relationship and it is wrong because I don't want that she sleeps with another person when in a relationship..."

It probably comes down to "RJ doesn't want his girl to **** someone else for jealousy reasons" ... and that's fine, whatever gets you through your day. But just don't tell people that your way is better without any reasons.

There you go Rogue.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, we do have very different views on relationships I suppose. I was just answering the question.


I could of course try to get a reasonable answer out of you why your girl can only sleep with you, but I guess it would just be circular arguments over and over.

Something like "She can't sleep with another person because I don't want that and I don't want that she sleeps with another person because it is wrong to sleep with another person when you are in a relationship and it is wrong because I don't want that she sleeps with another person when in a relationship..."

It probably comes down to "RJ doesn't want his girl to **** someone else for jealousy reasons" ... and that's fine, whatever gets you through your day. But just don't tell people that your way is better without any reasons. dude, thats part of being in a committed rrelationship, being committed to your partner. most people with half a brain would agree with it. those who dont? swingers. Its not about jealousy, its about trust and respect.

and you never answered my question.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah I know.



There you go Rogue. I feel like pointing out to you that I did not comment on the analogy, even though I think it is viable as well as not calling him an idiot.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
dude, thats part of being in a committed rrelationship, being committed to your partner. most people with half a brain would agree with it. those who dont? swingers. Its not about jealousy, its about trust and respect.

and you never answered my question. Just that it is not. It can be part of a committed relationship, but it doesn't have to be. As you said swingers are an example.

Also, what was your question?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I feel like pointing out to you that I did not comment on the analogy, even though I think it is viable as well as not calling him an idiot.

True but you said what I thought you would say and I sense in Rogues last post that this debate might get ugly.....eventually

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hes probably gonna come back and explain why its prefectly viable and call you an idiot. thorinnsrug probably...thats all he does. I am still waiting for him to answer my question, and now I ask you the same.

Originally posted by Alfheim
True but you said what I thought you would say and I sense in Rogues last post that this debate might get ugly.....eventually Yeah, it might, I feel like calling you an idiot, really. But luckily I don't have time to debate. Just, you know, let them folks debate about the topic without your wiseass comments, mkay?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Just that it is not. It can be part of a committed relationship, but it doesn't have to be. As you said swingers are an example.

Also, what was your question? you are at home. Your girl goes out. she comes home. "oops, I slept with another guy. he shagged me silly, but I love you."


your reaction.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
probably...thats all he does. I am still waiting for him to answer my question, and now I ask you the same. Are you guys crazy, what's up with all the ad hominem trash talk, lets just discuss it civilly, you can make all those low cracks once I actually did what your claim I do. And I asked you to repeat your question.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well then I guess Bardock would be fine if some guy nailed his lady. I guess he is a "swinger."

It's bullshit, but I guess feasible.

I guess the questions then are:

Can a person have sex with a person they are not in love with? Yes/No

If yes then is it possible for a couple to be happy, in love and committed even though they have agreed on open boundaries when it comes to sex since sex outside the relationship, since it would not have some sort of intent of love behind it or emotional significance, just being a physical thing? Yes/No

If yes then is that relationship somehow lesser/wrong/doesn't count because the couple have not subscribed to the traditional/conservative act of sexual exclusivity within their relationship? Yes/No.

I heard a quote once that said "sex without love is just masturbation with another person" (probabaly said by a religious person). If a couple can see sex as something possible beyond merely "expressing their feelings" and they are both fine with it I don't see a problem.



Not to answer for Bardock42 but then that would be where communication would have come into. If they have an understanding/open relationship then that kind of thing would be dealt with and wouldn't probably be considered a betrayal.

If on the other hand there is no such understanding and/or the guy/girl did this either knowing it would hurt their partner then it is far more an act of betrayal as they didn't have the decency to not break the trust in the relationship.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you are at home. Your girl goes out. she comes home. "oops, I slept with another guy. he shagged me silly, but I love you."


your reaction. That's a very broad question, there are many possible answers....depending on very many circumstances.

You'd like me to say "I dump her" or "I stay with her", but either are possibilities that all depend on the going of our relationship.

Also, you didn't ask me that question before, did you?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, it might, I feel like calling you an idiot, really.

*shrug*

Originally posted by Bardock42

But luckily I don't have time to debate. Just, you know, let them folks debate about the topic without your wiseass comments, mkay?

Well since you're leaving I probably will. I dunno I feel like making wiseass comments today, you do it all the time I dont see whats the problem.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Are you guys crazy, what's up with all the ad hominem trash talk, lets just discuss it civilly, you can make all those low cracks once I actually did what your claim I do. And I asked you to repeat your question.

Ok just dont make any yourself then.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's a very broad question, there are many possible answers....depending on very many circumstances.

You'd like me to say "I dump her" or "I stay with her", but either are possibilities that all depend on the going of our relationship.

Also, you didn't ask me that question before, did you? yes, in fact I did ask you that before. all I would like from you is an honest answer. the going of the relationship? lets just say that all is going well, and it is quite unexpected that she did this.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura


If on the other hand there is no such understanding and/or the guy/girl did this either knowing it would hurt their partner then it is far more an act of betrayal as they didn't have the decency to not break the trust in the relationship.

What he said.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
dude, thats part of being in a committed rrelationship, being committed to your partner. most people with half a brain would agree with it. those who dont? swingers. Its not about jealousy, its about trust and respect.

and you never answered my question.

Actually that is about how you view a committed relationship (and how I do) - as in ones personal values on the matter, and the kind of things a person does or doesn't do in such a relationship. It has nothing to do with the % of brain a person has, just the bounderies one puts on a relationship.

Not all relationships are carbon copies.

Beyond considering things such as swingers, threesomes, open-relationships... what about a polygamous relationships (they existed once and still do in places)?

Or for that matter masterbation in which a visual aid is used?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, in fact I did ask you that before. all I would like from you is an honest answer. the going of the relationship? lets just say that all is going well, and it is quite unexpected that she did this.

But then it is not going well. Well would be that we discussed it and she did it because she wanted to and I was fine with it. Lying to me is a whole different thing.

If she pretended that she would not cheat on me and then did then I wouldn't take it as easy. But if we discussed it and decided it is okay that would be ... well...okay.


Also, it is a FACT that you did not ask me that question before, don't pretend I disregard your points or questions, you just don't state (have) them (either)

Sex means love so no they can't be separate.If you don't love that person that you slepted with.Then that is not respecting that person at all and is wrong.jm

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Sex means love so no they can't be separate.If you don't love that person that you slepted with.Then that is not respecting that person at all and is wrong.jm

Utter bollocks.

Originally posted by Bardock42


Also, it is a FACT that you did not ask me that question before, don't pretend I disregard your points or questions, you just don't state (have) them (either)

Well I think this was original question...I think.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
but we are talking about if you would be OK if your GF went out and shagged some guy, and said "It was just sex, and I love you,"

Then you responded with this but it wasnt a straight answer..*shrug*

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, we do have very different views on relationships I suppose. I was just answering the question.


I could of course try to get a reasonable answer out of you why your girl can only sleep with you, but I guess it would just be circular arguments over and over.

Something like "She can't sleep with another person because I don't want that and I don't want that she sleeps with another person because it is wrong to sleep with another person when you are in a relationship and it is wrong because I don't want that she sleeps with another person when in a relationship..."

It probably comes down to "RJ doesn't want his girl to **** someone else for jealousy reasons" ... and that's fine, whatever gets you through your day. But just don't tell people that your way is better without any reasons.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's like you saying I love apple pie so much I will never eat cheesecake again. Heh... Like warm apple pie... Anyway...

The problem with this anology is that its not unheard of to place this kind of emotional constraint on another person. To say that you love a person so much that you will never go out and have sex with, or cuddle with another person. It's not unreasonable to only show the affections of love to one person.

It is however ridiculous to do the things with food, to place such emotional attachments to one food that you forsake all others. The food doesn't have any emotions of there own, they won't be hurt if you go out and eat other foods. However your partner does have emotions and deep down might feel a little hurt.

One thing I find funny in this thread is people talk about accepting other people for having open relation ships, even though I get the distinct impression that none of the personally would be happy if the one they loved went out and slept with another person.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
cheating is the worst thing you can do to your partner, period. once they betray your trust, the damage is done.


I don't think cheating is the worst thing, dude, there are far worse things.


Your partner could be a scam artist and run away with all your money. Your partner could hurt one of your family members.
Your partner could go nuts and kill you.


or simply


Your partner may constantly put you down, trash you, and that my freind is far worse to me then being cheated on. When your partner is constantly putting you down, or judging your every move, that is abuse, and that to me shows that they don't love you for who you are, but for what they imagine they can shape you into.









Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if your BF was gone and you got horny, you would cheat on them? wow...what a weak willed individual you are.




No, I was just bringing up an example.


It depends how long I knew him, and how much I trusted him.

However, I need my partner to be there. I can't have a relationship where I only see my boyfreind once or twice a year. Sorry. I would so leave that guy, if that's how it was going to be. It doesn't matter how attracted I am, I can't do that.


Besides, you can't tell me that when you were with your girlfreind, you never watched porn, or looked at pictures of other naked women, or even fantasized about other women or celebrities.


Would you say that stuff is cheating ?

*wonders whats going to happen next* nuts

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Sex means love so no they can't be separate.If you don't love that person that you slepted with.Then that is not respecting that person at all and is wrong.jm

It's called lust... You mix it with booze and sex happens.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Heh... Like warm apple pie... Anyway...

The problem with this anology is that its not unheard of to place this kind of emotional constraint on another person. To say that you love a person so much that you will never go out and have sex with, or cuddle with another person. It's not unreasonable to only show the affections of love to one person.

Yeah.


Originally posted by Creshosk

It is however ridiculous to do the things with food, to place such emotional attachments to one food that you forsake all others. The food doesn't have any emotions of there own, they won't be hurt if you go out and eat other foods. However your partner does have emotions and deep down might feel a little hurt.

Whatever.

Originally posted by Creshosk

One thing I find funny in this thread is people talk about accepting other people for having open relation ships, even though I get the distinct impression that none of the personally would be happy if the one they loved went out and slept with another person.

Er yeah that would be right and one person even mentioned it. However just because we dont like it doesnt mean it cant work for certain people.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Heh... Like warm apple pie... Anyway...

The problem with this anology is that its not unheard of to place this kind of emotional constraint on another person. To say that you love a person so much that you will never go out and have sex with, or cuddle with another person. It's not unreasonable to only show the affections of love to one person.

It is however ridiculous to do the things with food, to place such emotional attachments to one food that you forsake all others. The food doesn't have any emotions of there own, they won't be hurt if you go out and eat other foods. However your partner does have emotions and deep down might feel a little hurt.

One thing I find funny in this thread is people talk about accepting other people for having open relation ships, even though I get the distinct impression that none of the personally would be happy if the one they loved went out and slept with another person. excellent post. walk a mile in said persons shoes (someone who has been betrayed) and call me in the morning.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Sex means love so no they can't be separate.If you don't love that person that you slepted with.Then that is not respecting that person at all and is wrong.jm Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Utter bollocks.



Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I think this was original question...I think.



Then you responded with this but it wasnt a straight answer..*shrug*

We should not lie here, sweetycheeks. The quote of Rogue Jedi there was a reply to you, not to me. It was certainly not a question aimed at me....in fact, it wasn't a question at all. Lets keep it fair and straight here, mkay?Originally posted by Creshosk
Heh... Like warm apple pie... Anyway...

The problem with this anology is that its not unheard of to place this kind of emotional constraint on another person. To say that you love a person so much that you will never go out and have sex with, or cuddle with another person. It's not unreasonable to only show the affections of love to one person.

It is however ridiculous to do the things with food, to place such emotional attachments to one food that you forsake all others. The food doesn't have any emotions of there own, they won't be hurt if you go out and eat other foods. However your partner does have emotions and deep down might feel a little hurt.

One thing I find funny in this thread is people talk about accepting other people for having open relation ships, even though I get the distinct impression that none of the personally would be happy if the one they loved went out and slept with another person. I agree with you in a way, though I would not damn anyone that would choose one food over another.

As for an open relationship, I would not mind that, so I guess I am the one here that's okay with it. Anyhow, it doesn't really matter cause it should be accepted even though no one here wants it.

Anyways, if anyone wants me to reply point by point to their arguments state them to me, I will in due time. Maybe some of you didn't understand what I (or themselves for that matter) said. So we could clarify that.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
However, I could easily argue, using your own presented logic, that if you truly love someone you would never yell at them, or take out your anger on them.

And in doing so, you would be drawing a False Analogy. There is quite a difference between raising your voice out of frustration, and fundamentally betraying your partner.




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Really ? Maybe he has a rage problem.



Maybe he has mental or emotional baggage that is too overwhelming for him to simply bottle up. Maybe he is hurt beyond simple repair, and needs special attention to tend his condition.


Maybe he is super sensitive, and cannot contain his hurt, and therefore would take anything I said or did the wrong way.

Maybe his fear of losing me is so great, that he tries to control me so I can never leave.

Maybe you are justifying bad behavior.




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
It's likely that the same person who abuses me would be heartbroken and shattered when I left him. It's possible that he may feel guilt for years after I leave.

And his guilty would be the consequence of his abusive behavior.




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
So if a driver hits my loved one, that means the driver hated my loved one ? That means the driver wanted to hurt my loved one ?

No, it means that whether the driver intended to harm your loved one or not, it does not change the fact that but for his actions, your loved one would not be hurt.

People do not live on good intentions. The pain that your loved one is experiencing is not suddenly acceptable, because the driver had good intentions, or if you prefer, did not have bad intentions. The situation is weighed against his actions. Ultimately, character is a measure of the man that you are, not the man that you intend to be.




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
You can hurt someone, without meaning to or realizing it, and it doesn't mean you don't love them. All I can conclude is that you either:


1) Haven't seriously dated many men

or

2) All the men you dated have been the same

Or the parties involved in my relationships have behaved more maturely and taken the relationship more seriously than the parties involved in yours.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well strictly speaking there are people with very liberal, "open" relationships. I would assume the people in them have an understanding and the nonexclusive nature of the physical side of the relationship works for them.

Now speaking personally that wouldn't work for me since my concepts of a personal relationship include a degree of exclusive commitment. I couldn't cheat on a partner and it would probably be it if a partner cheated on me because of my values in a relationship.

But at the same time I realise not everybody is the same. I don't think it is as easy as saying "thats not a committed relationship" since a relationship exists on more then a sexual level and some people might not put quite the same emphasis on sexual exclusivity.

Then there are things like threesomes and the so called "swingers" that apparently committed couples participate in, one assumes because in those cases they manage to separate trust, commitment and sex from one another. For them, so I've heard, the experience involving other people actually heightens their own happiness with their actual partner, adds to that side of the relationship. The minority perhaps, but they shouldn't be dismissed or their relationships somehow considered lesser.

By removing sexual exclusivity, they are no different than friends who occasionally have sex with one another, and it is arguable whether this qualifies as a true romantic relationship.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Can a person have sex with a person they are not in love with? Yes/No

Yes.




Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
If yes then is it possible for a couple to be happy, in love and committed even though they have agreed on open boundaries when it comes to sex since sex outside the relationship, since it would not have some sort of intent of love behind it or emotional significance, just being a physical thing? Yes/No

No. It is arguable whether a relationship with "open boundaries when it comes to . . . sex outside the relationship" qualifies as "committed." Without sexual exclusivity, they are committed to what exactly?




Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
If yes then is that relationship somehow lesser/wrong/doesn't count because the couple have not subscribed to the traditional/conservative act of sexual exclusivity within their relationship? Yes/No.

It is not a matter of whether or not it qualifies as a relationship, but what kind of relationship it qualifies as.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Besides, you can't tell me that when you were with your girlfreind, you never watched porn, or looked at pictures of other naked women, or even fantasized about other women or celebrities.


Would you say that stuff is cheating ?

Why would you need fantasy and pornography if you are in a relationship?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Why would you need fantasy and pornography if you are in a relationship?

T-to jerk off?Originally posted by Adam_PoE
By removing sexual exclusivity, they are no different than friends who occasionally have sex with one another, and it is arguable whether this qualifies as a true romantic relationship.

That is odd. Then relationships to you are just good friends that decided to just **** each other?

Our definitions seem different.


Also, good going quadruple posting there ....

Originally posted by Bardock42
T-to jerk off?

Why would you masturbate when you can have sex with your partner?




Originally posted by Bardock42
That is odd. Then relationships to you are just good friends that decided to just **** each other?

Our definitions seem different.

Quite the opposite. Perhaps you should re-read my post.

Originally posted by Jim Reaper
It's called lust... You mix it with booze and sex happens. I don't know....I just found this quite funny..

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Why would you masturbate when you can have sex with your partner?






. because sometimes your partner is not in the mood, or they are at work, or they are on the rag.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
By removing sexual exclusivity, they are no different than friends who occasionally have sex with one another, and it is arguable whether this qualifies as a true romantic relationship.



By our standards perhaps, by their's apparently not. I am just naturally wary of dismissing relationships because they might not be like my own.

I do not think you are saying the only thing that sets apart a romantic relationship from those relationships with friends is sex, so I would assume that those aspects still exist - the emotional aspects, the mental aspects. I mean if, for whatever reason, a couple can't have sex together (through disability due to accident or something) are they no different to friends who don't have sex together?

As for me, in a relationship I am committed to the person I am with, not to just having sex with them, but that is something I consider being a part of that commitment. Others apparently just don't give it the same level of importance it would seem, but that doesn't mean they aren't committed to their partners.



I would be prepared to say it qualifies as the relationship the people in question consider it, since they would be the ones defining its parameters, not so much how others with acknowledged, different relationship values perceive it.

If they can reconcile non-sexual exclusivity with love and yet both feel they are in a loving, committed relationship none-the-less then I guess power to them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
because sometimes your partner is not in the mood, or they are at work, or they are on the rag.

...and variety is the spice of life

Originally posted by Jim Reaper
...and variety is the spice of life right, but you have to have limitations. to watch porn and masturbate is OK. to masturbate and think of Milla jovovich is OK. for her to masturbate and think about Brad pitt is OK.

But to go out and have sex with another is wrong, no if's and's but's or maybe's about it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
because sometimes your partner is not in the mood, or they are at work, or they are on the rag.

Being gay, I am not familiar with those problems.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
By our standards perhaps, by their's apparently not. I am just naturally wary of dismissing relationships because they might not be like my own.

I do not think you are saying the only thing that sets apart a romantic relationship from those relationships with friends is sex, so I would assume that those aspects still exist - the emotional aspects, the mental aspects. I mean if, for whatever reason, a couple can't have sex together (through disability due to accident or something) are they no different to friends who don't have sex together?

As for me, in a relationship I am committed to the person I am with, not to just having sex with them, but that is something I consider being a part of that commitment. Others apparently just don't give it the same level of importance it would seem, but that doesn't mean they aren't committed to their partners.

Which begs the question, "Without sexual exclusivity, what are they committed to exactly?" If your answer is "the emotional aspects," then how is this relationship different than "friends who occasionally have sex with one another?"

I am not arguing that an open-relationship is not a relationship, but that it is a different type of relationship from a romantic relationship altogether.




Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I would be prepared to say it qualifies as the relationship the people in question consider it, since they would be the ones defining its parameters, not so much how others with acknowledged, different relationship values perceive it.

If they can reconcile non-sexual exclusivity with love and yet both feel they are in a loving, committed relationship none-the-less then I guess power to them.

Defining things subjectively is a poor way to define things. I could have a sexual arrangement with a friend and call it a relationship, but it would not be anything other than "friends with benefits."

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Being gay, I am not familiar with those problems. The last one I can understand.. the first.. eh I can see that.. but the middle one?

Originally posted by vinz07
Can you be in love with one person, and still have sex with another, and still love that other person fully?
Definately yes although not many people look forward to hearing that answer. Sex and Love are two complete different things the way I see it, intimacy with the other is just a little extra treat that can make a relationship stronger and (if intended) bring another life into the world in creating a family and growing stronger with a relationship.

Originally posted by Creshosk
The last one I can understand.. the first.. eh I can see that.. but the middle one?

I can simply wait until he comes home from work since being in the mood is not an issue.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
And in doing so, you would be drawing a False Analogy. There is quite a difference between raising your voice out of frustration, and fundamentally betraying your partner.




You said that if you love someone, you would never do anything to hurt them. That is not absolutely true. We often do hurt the ones we love, with or without intention, for whatever reason.




Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Maybe you are justifying bad behavior.




First off, I thought you didn't beleive in Moral Absolutivity


Secondly, I am trying to understand behavior rather than justify it. People do things for different reasons.


If someone cheats on me, I can take it one of two ways: Either they didn't love me the way I thought they did, or this person has a serious problem with himself.


Insecurities can lead to that kind of behavior, and it could have almost nothing to do with how they feel about you.








Originally posted by Adam_PoE
And his guilty would be the consequence of his abusive behavior.



If he didn't love me, he most likely wouldn't feel guilty.






Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, it means that whether the driver intended to harm your loved one or not, it does not change the fact that but for his actions, your loved one would not be hurt.


But it does not mean he didn't care, or that he intended to hurt your loved one.

Likewise, If someone cheats on me, it doesn't automatically mean they did it to hurt me, or that they don't love me.







Originally posted by Adam_PoE
People do not live on good intentions. The pain that your loved one is experiencing is not suddenly acceptable, because the driver had good intentions, or if you prefer, did not have bad intentions. The situation is weighed against his actions. Ultimately, character is a measure of the man that you are, not the man that you intend to be.




Ofcourse the pain is not acceptable. I am not discussing that. If someone cheats on you, it is entirely up to you to decide what to do about it, and you owe your partner nothing.


However, to automatically assume that your partner who cheated on you, never really loved you, is a mistake.





Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Or the parties involved in my relationships have behaved more maturely and taken the relationship more seriously than the parties involved in yours.



Then again, I'm 21...im not likely to find anyone that serious for a while

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Why would you need fantasy and pornography if you are in a relationship?



Because you can get sexually bored sometimes. It's normal. Just because my partner doesn't give me an instant orgasm, doesn't mean I don't care about him more than anyone else in the world.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Being gay, I am not familiar with those problems. I will take your word for it.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Which begs the question, "Without sexual exclusivity, what are they committed to exactly?" If your answer is "the emotional aspects," then how is this relationship different than "friends who occasionally have sex with one another?"

I am not arguing that an open-relationship is not a relationship, but that it is a different type of relationship from a romantic relationship altogether.

I see what you are saying, I'll word my question/response differently -

Situation A. The couple are committed, in love and believe they will be together forever. They however refrain from sex, choosing to wait till marriage.

Situation B. A couple for some reason, be it illness, disability etc are no longer able to engage in a traditional sexual relationships.

Are these still romantic relationships despite the absence of a sexual component (for an unknown duration) or are they just friendships? I would say yes, they are romantic relationships. If that is so then I would guess there is more to a romantic relationship then just sex. Of course I am sure everyone would agree. So therefore if a romantic relationship has more aspects then just the sexual one which set it apart from just a good friendship then I can only assume those features could exist within an open relationship.



Why is it a poor way to define things when it comes to something as personal as a relationship. People have different values. I have stated that if a partner cheated on me then that would likely be it, while someone else says they can forgive and forget. I would think a relationship is what to people feel and how they perceive it, not so much how people outside apply their values to it.

As to your example - a friend with benefits is that, a friend with benefits. Unless when sex is stripped away a romantic relationship in no different from a normal friendship it doesn't count. From the kinds of thing I have heard about that it is pretty much an understanding between two people that they just have fun sex without commitments or any real emotional hangups. They are not something a person classifies as a deep romantic relationship. If you were engaged in one and you considered, and more importantly felt, that it is a real relationship, or more then just casual sex, then it sounds like you would be wanting more out of it then your friend with benefits.

And it goes back to what I asked above - is there more to a romantic relationship then sex? I would say yes. If so then "friends with benefits" wouldn't count since that is simply sex with a friend, not the understanding/connection between a romantically involved couple.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura


I see what you are saying, I'll word my question/response differently -

Situation A. The couple are committed, in love and believe they will be together forever. They however refrain from sex, choosing to wait till marriage.

Situation B. A couple for some reason, be it illness, disability etc are no longer able to engage in a traditional sexual relationships.

Are these still romantic relationships despite the absence of a sexual component (for an unknown duration) or are they just friendships? I would say yes, they are romantic relationships. If that is so then I would guess there is more to a romantic relationship then just sex. Of course I am sure everyone would agree. So therefore if a romantic relationship has more aspects then just the sexual one which set it apart from just a good friendship then I can only assume those features could exist within an open relationship. The flaw in your comparison is that in situations A and B they're not having sex with anyone, in the open relationship they are having sex with people other than the one they're in the realtionship with. One case there is no sex, the other there is.

Sorry, it just bugs me to see flaws like that, even if I agree with you. I can't help but point flaws out... I'm sorta like a beta tester/plot hole finder on some projects...

Originally posted by Creshosk
The flaw in your comparison is that in situations A and B they're not having sex with anyone, in the open relationship they are having sex with people other than the one they're in the realtionship with. One case there is no sex, the other there is.

Sorry, it just bugs me to see flaws like that, even if I agree with you. I can't help but point flaws out... I'm sorta like a beta tester/plot hole finder on some projects...

No, you missed the point. The question was if a relationship is not sexually exclusive then what exactly is being committed to - they might as well just be friends having sex. I an trying to get across that a relationship is more then just sex, thus questioning whether there are other aspects of a relationship beyond sex.

To this end I presented two examples with sex removed completely and asked that in such examples is it still a romantic relationship or are they just friends. Because it seems to be implied in a way here that sexual exclusivity is one of the criteria for two peoples interactions to be defined as a committed relationship, thus putting a significant emphasis on sex being a defining part of a relationship rather then just an expression of it.

The opposite to those cases being a couple who have agreed on an open relationship - that is they may or may not have sex outside of it with another person, but the aspects other then sex that exist in a sexually exclusive relationship or a sexless relationship could still potentially exist in a sexually open relationship as well.

But with the no sex examples they're still not having sex with other people. You could still call them sexually exclusive.

So your analogy/comparison is still flawed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
We should not lie here, sweetycheeks. The quote of Rogue Jedi there was a reply to you, not to me. It was certainly not a question aimed at me....in fact, it wasn't a question at all. Lets keep it fair and straight here, mkay? I agree with you in a way, though I would not damn anyone that would choose one food over another.


Hey **** you dont accuse me of lying every man and his dog is liar. Anyway first you said its not a question and then you said it was.....anyway eventhough it doesnt have a question mark after it seemed like a question and I dont think it was aimed specifically at me, I dont see why it couldnt have been aimed at you. It was more like he made a statement and wanted somebody to comment on it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
We should not lie here, sweetycheeks. The quote of Rogue Jedi there was a reply to you, not to me. It was certainly not a question aimed at me....in fact, it wasn't a question at all. Lets keep it fair and straight here, mkay? It doesn't follow. His response in question didn't quote anyone and it doesn't follow for it to be aimed at Alf. It fits if Alf's post in question just before RJ's post in question was absent.

And though it also has the error of an obviously expecting an answer and not having a question mark. Despite the flawed syntax it makes sense for it to be a question aimed at you. Rather than something that shifter from a question being aimed at alf to not a question at all.

It appears like you're dodging... is there a particular reason why it seems this way?

(I mean other than the blame shift and decrying the state of it being a question)

Originally posted by Creshosk
But with the no sex examples they're still not having sex with other people. You could still call them sexually exclusive.

So your analogy/comparison is still flawed.

No, in that case what is the difference between them and friends who don't have sex?

In case b. (drawn from a documentary that was on in Australia a couple of months ago) the sexual exclusivity is not by choice. And in such cases it is not uncommon for the party who is able to/or no longer feels they are able to participate in sex to tell their partner if they wanted to move on/or seek such from other sources then they would understand. Do they take the other? I have no idea since I only saw a commercial but humans being humans I think some would.

The reality behind my point remains - if sex is removed from a relationship (as opposed to existing and being exclusive or existing and being nonexclusive) are there still other factors that remain that set it apart from "just friends"?

Or in another way - if you had a pie chart made up of features of a relationship sex would be a part of the pie, but the only part? No. Thus in a relationship without sex or without sexual exclusivity there would still remain features common to a sexually exclusive relationship which would still set it apart from just a friendship. The act of making sex nonexclusive would not remove all features of a committed, romantic relationship.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
No, in that case what is the difference between them and friends who don't have sex? The amount of physical intimacy that would and could still be displayed toward one another.

>>Cuddling<<

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
In case b. (drawn from a documentary that was on in Australia a couple of months ago) the sexual exclusivity is not by choice. be that as it may it is still present.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And in such cases it is not uncommon for the party who is able to/or no longer feels they are able to participate in sex to tell their partner if they wanted to move on/or seek such from other sources then they would understand. Do they take the other? I have no idea since I only saw a commercial but humans being humans I think some would. Some would. Though then the question of intent could be raised on those who do.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
The reality behind my point remains - if sex is removed from a relationship (as opposed to existing and being exclusive or existing and being nonexclusive) are there still other factors that remain that set it apart from "just friends"?Yes. I'm not saying your premise/conclusion is flawed. Just your method of approach.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Or in another way - if you had a pie chart made up of features of a relationship sex would be a part of the pie, but the only part? No. Thus in a relationship without sex or without sexual exclusivity there would still remain features common to a sexually exclusive relationship which would still set it apart from just a friendship. The act of making sex nonexclusive would not remove all features of a committed, romantic relationship. Correct. Your premise/conclusion is not what I was questioning. Merely the means by which it was reached.

Commiting a logical fallacy does not render your conclusion invalid. Merely the argument for said conclusion. To think otherwise would be to commit a fallacy of its own.

I think we have established that the subject at hand depends on the couple.

Originally posted by Creshosk
The amount of physical intimacy that would and could still be displayed toward one another.

>>Cuddling<<

Step One: I was asked "without sexual exclusivity what are you committing to? You could be just friends having sex."

I asked is there more to a relationship the sex and it being exclusive, while using different relationships as a way to look at features that set apart friendship/romantic relationship.

But there you go, you answered the question - even if a couple has an open relationship things such as cuddling set them apart from normal friends.



Because it being there by default is the same as couples choosing it?



Naturally, and it is a whole different light if a wife/husband has to seek physical comfort elsewhere due to things beyond either their control? Apparently in those cases love and nonsexual exclusivity can be reconciled.



Well since I still wonder if you get what I am getting at I have to question that, since it was never about commitment, it was a look at two cases that are romantic relationships where sex is not an the same type of issue as it is in open/exclusive relationships. As in - what do these people not having sex have that still sets them apart from just friends not having sex?



Sigh.



Logical Fallacy? Once again - it was not an argument, it was two examples in which sex is not the same issue either a sexually exclusive relationship or a nonexclusive one, committment was not relevent as it was a way to examine features other then sex that set apart a romantic relationship from a normal friendship.



*Throws up hands*

Exactly!

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Step One: I was asked "without sexual exclusivity what are you committing to? You could be just friends having sex."

I asked is there more to a relationship the sex and it being exclusive, while using different relationships as a way to look at features that set apart friendship/romantic relationship.

But there you go, you answered the question - even if a couple has an open relationship things such as cuddling set them apart from normal friends.Yeah, the angle you were taking was not helping anything. Rather than simply asking if there is something else and using a flawed analogy, its better to simply answer how it is different from "just friends having sex".

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Because it being there by default is the same as couples choosing it?Yes. The result is the same.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Naturally, and it is a whole different light if a wife/husband has to seek physical comfort elsewhere due to things beyond either their control? Apparently in those cases love and nonsexual exclusivity can be reconciled. Makes you wonder how much value they placed on that single aspect if they're willing to "move on" and leave the one they're with doesn't it?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well since I still wonder if you get what I am getting at I have to question that, since it was never about commitment, it was a look at two cases that are romantic relationships where sex is not an the same type of issue as it is in open/exclusive relationships. As in - what do these people not having sex have that still sets them apart from just friends not having sex? Again the physical intamacy, cuddling, holding hands, romantic candlelight dinners. Take you pick of various other activities that you would normally do with a lover that you would not do with a friend.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Sigh.



Logical Fallacy? Once again - it was not an argument, It was a flawed analogy to prove that an open relationship has more to offer the couple than purely sex.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
it was two examples in which sex is not the same issue either a sexually exclusive relationship or a nonexclusive one, committment was not relevent as it was a way to examine features other then sex that set apart a romantic relationship from a normal friendship. And a rather flawed way to do it as well.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
*Throws up hands*

Exactly! That's what I said earlier on as well. It's not something I'd choose, but I can't fault other couples for doing it.

Again, I was not attacking your premise or your conclusion, merely the steps you were taking to go from premise to conclusion.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I think we have established that the subject at hand depends on the couple.

Yeah and I was pretty sure thats what everybody would agree on.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It doesn't follow. His response in question didn't quote anyone and it doesn't follow for it to be aimed at Alf. It fits if Alf's post in question just before RJ's post in question was absent.

And though it also has the error of an obviously expecting an answer and not having a question mark. Despite the flawed syntax it makes sense for it to be a question aimed at you. Rather than something that shifter from a question being aimed at alf to not a question at all.

It appears like you're dodging... is there a particular reason why it seems this way?

(I mean other than the blame shift and decrying the state of it being a question)

Are you guys out of your mind? I am not dodging, I answered the question as soon as I was asked it.

I feel I should not be accused of dodging because someone randomly replied to someone else with a statement that they would like to be a question. How should I have figured a) that it was a question and b) that it was aimed at me?

I was accused of severe bullshit, read it back and then tell me again that I dodged so I can be sure that you do it with malicious intent so I can call you a liar.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hey **** you dont accuse me of lying every man and his dog is liar. Anyway first you said its not a question and then you said it was.....anyway eventhough it doesnt have a question mark after it seemed like a question and I dont think it was aimed specifically at me, I dont see why it couldnt have been aimed at you. It was more like he made a statement and wanted somebody to comment on it. Dude, don't mistate what happened and that won't happen.

I did not reply to that part so I did not dodge or disregard it. It wasn't aimed at me. Don't accuse me of that stuff and then distort the facts to make it appear your accusing was okay.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Are you guys out of your mind? I am not dodging, I answered the question as soon as I was asked it.

I feel I should not be accused of dodging because someone randomly replied to someone else with a statement that they would like to be a question. How should I have figured a) that it was a question and b) that it was aimed at me?

I was accused of severe bullshit, read it back and then tell me again that I dodged so I can be sure that you do it with malicious intent so I can call you a liar. Nope, that response answers what was missing. You weren't dodging. You legitimatly thought the things you said.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Are you guys out of your mind? I am not dodging, I answered the question as soon as I was asked it.

I feel I should not be accused of dodging because someone randomly replied to someone else with a statement that they would like to be a question. How should I have figured a) that it was a question and b) that it was aimed at me?

I was accused of severe bullshit, read it back and then tell me again that I dodged so I can be sure that you do it with malicious intent so I can call you a liar.

Dude, don't mistate what happened and that won't happen.

I did not reply to that part so I did not dodge or disregard it. It wasn't aimed at me. Don't accuse me of that stuff and then distort the facts to make it appear your accusing was okay.

Look you know, its just looks like a misunderstadning to me but it was a question, hell you even said it was a question. I dont think it was aimed at me, hell he didnt even quote me. Just because its straiht afer my post doesnt mean it was aimed at me either. At the end of the day he made a statement and he wanted a response.