Classic Beyonder vs. Kami-Tenchi

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Nikkolas
Who takes it?

Endless Mike
Beyonder has better feats, I'm not really going to go into arguing this now, so I'll give it to him.

lando005
stalemate beyonder would most likely try to will kami-t out of exsistance which wont work on someone as powerful as he is.

but i also believe it is implied that fully released kami tenchi is all knowing as well as all powerful he could most likely talk the beyonder down

Goddess Kali
who is kami tench ?

lando005
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
who is kami tench ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenchi_Masaki

it is hinted all throughout the series that Tenchi is the incarnation of Kami(god) or he may be Kami in mortal form

tooa/presence
Classic Beyonder right when the match begins.

shksprtx
I don't know who Kami-Tenchi is, but classic Beyonder was his own universe...

Beyonder FTW...

tooa/presence
Originally posted by shksprtx
I don't know who Kami-Tenchi is, but classic Beyonder was his own universe...

Beyonder FTW...

Classic Beyonder was reality

lando005
Originally posted by shksprtx
I don't know who Kami-Tenchi is, but classic Beyonder was his own universe...

Beyonder FTW... Kami-Tenchi = TOAA

Soljer
Originally posted by lando005
Kami-Tenchi = TOAA

And? Classic Beyonder was suposed to be millions of times more powerful than all of existence combined. He was a step above the one above all.

lando005
Originally posted by Soljer
And? Classic Beyonder was suposed to be millions of times more powerful than all of existence combined. He was a step above the one above all. it's impossible to be beyond TOAA because he's the end all god if anything classic beyonder displayed power akin to TOAA you cant be more powerful that the most unlimited power in the omniverse

Soljer
Originally posted by lando005
it's impossible to be beyond TOAA because he's the end all god if anything classic beyonder displayed power akin to TOAA you cant be more powerful that the most unlimited power in the omniverse

.....

Untrue. There are levels of infinity, quite obviously. The Living Tribunal is omnipotent as well - but the one above all is 'above' him.

Pre-retcon beyonder was more powerful than the one above all. Same story.

lando005
Originally posted by Soljer
.....

Untrue. There are levels of infinity, quite obviously. The Living Tribunal is omnipotent as well - but the one above all is 'above' him.

Pre-retcon beyonder was more powerful than the one above all. Same story. not true at all he displayed power akin to him but nothing above him the reason he was call the one above all is simple nomatter how powerful you thin you may be he was always more powerful is is all that was is or ever will be like our god god and LT i jesus, you gonna tell me there is a power beyond god now? also beyonder may have had nearly unlimited power but he lack the knowledge and understanding to go with it which also makes him weaker than TOAA for another reason if beyonder was truely that all powerful then there wouldnt have been a secret war in the first place
also you counter your own argument by saying that there are diffrent levels of infinity as infinity by it's very nature means without limits, saying that there are diffrent levels means there is a limit. People say LT is limitless but that's only as far as that person can preceve him he has his limits and thus not infinite the only one one who is truely infinate is TOAA beyonder is not

tooa/presence
Originally posted by lando005
Kami-Tenchi = TOAA
wrong.

And PR beyonder is not above TOAA. TOAA is called the one above all for a reason.

Mr Master
God & TOAA are above and beyond hierarchies,
because they create everything that takes place in the canon Marvel comics we read.

It's like the Artists and Writers have taken the shape of characters in Marvel,
calling themselves "God" (an Artist) and the "Collaborator" (the Writer) I presume TOAA.

And although they themselves are Drawings to us (God appeared on panel in FF#511)
EVERYTHING else in Marvel is Drawings to them, from Thanos/THOTI to Aunt May.

Classic Beyonder is the most powerful being ever imagined by TOAA and drawn by God,
rivaled only by THOTI.


IMO ... based on FF#511:

(TOAA = any Writer from any given Canon story)

(God = any Artist from any given Canon story)

Astner
From interview and such Beyonder was supose to represent the power the writers had over the comics.
And there┤s also said that he represented Jim Shooter.

So IMO, he would be equal to Jack Kirby in that sense.

lando005
Originally posted by tooa/presence
wrong.

And PR beyonder is not above TOAA. TOAA is called the one above all for a reason. how is that wrong? kami tenchi fills the same purpose for the tenchi anime/manga as TOAA does for marvel so in the aspect they are the same

other than that i agree with the second part

Astner
Originally posted by lando005
how is that wrong? kami tenchi fills the same purpose for the tenchi anime/manga as TOAA does for marvel so in the aspect they are the same

other than that i agree with the second part
Prove to us, how Kami, from Tenchi Muyo! Has anything over the Beyonder.
He has no feat that can compare, and the best statement would be that he is the creator of 13 dimensions, where the Choushins only know of 12.

lando005
Originally posted by Astner
Prove to us, how Kami, from Tenchi Muyo! Has anything over the Beyonder.
He has no feat that can compare, and the best statement would be that he is the creator of 13 dimensions, where the Choushins only know of 12. he is the here all end all for the entire series the equivalent of TOAA for marvel comics and you want proof that he's above the beyonder?

Astner
Originally posted by lando005
he is the here all end all for the entire series the equivalent of TOAA for marvel comics and you want proof that he's above the beyonder?
Let┤s compare, he exist in the 13th dimension.
He created a 12th dimension where he put 3 Choushin┤s who created another 11 dimensions, in a collection known as a hyper-dimension.

Nowhere is it officially stated that he is the equicalment of TOAA, nor does he have the feats or statements suporting it.

lando005
Originally posted by Astner
Let┤s compare, he exist in the 13th dimension.
He created a 12th dimension where he put 3 Choushin┤s who created another 11 dimensions, in a collection known as a hyper-dimension.

Nowhere is it officially stated that he is the equicalment of TOAA, nor does he have the feats or statements suporting it. the goddess did not create the other realities he did there is nothing in the tenchi universe more powerful than him. The goddess thought themselves the most powerful beings in all reality but could not even precive the concept of kami tenchi. Your asking proof that goes without saying. We dont ask of proof of TOAA because we all know that in the world of marvel he is the powerful being there is, same concept applys to Kami Tenchi, in the world of Tenchi he is the most powerful being there is, same could be said of dc, wild storm or any other comic book company with their god, doesn't mean we ask proof of this it's a fact that's already known

Astner
Originally posted by lando005
the goddess did not create the other realities he did there is nothing in the tenchi universe more powerful than him. The goddess thought themselves the most powerful beings in all reality but could not even precive the concept of kami tenchi. Your asking proof that goes without saying. We dont ask of proof of TOAA because we all know that in the world of marvel he is the powerful being there is, same concept applys to Kami Tenchi, in the world of Tenchi he is the most powerful being there is, same could be said of dc, wild storm or any other comic book company with their god, doesn't mean we ask proof of this it's a fact that's already known
OK, lets put it this way, we know that The-One-Above-All is above the Living Tribunal who is the second most powerful being in Marvel, more powerful than Omniversal busters.

TOAA >> LT >> Omniversal busters

Simple as that.

Marvel Omniverse is even bigger, scale-wise than Tenchi Muyo!┤s hyper-dimensions.

There is a anime/manga called Slayers, with a God named Lord of Nightmares, she was stated to be omnipotent, the creator and all the rest.
But she showed flaws, a being in her own creation, survived a direct blast from her.

If you don┤t question then you stay ignorant.

CaptainStoic
The Beyonder has been cut down in power so drastically since his beggining, when I read Secret Wars The Beyonder was the universe... I mean he was an entire universe. How can you beat someone in their universe when they are the universe? simple answer you can't. So I'll be politically correct and say that in his universe he would win, but in the Tenchi Universe he would lose.... maybe.

lando005
Originally posted by Astner
OK, lets put it this way, we know that The-One-Above-All is above the Living Tribunal who is the second most powerful being in Marvel, more powerful than Omniversal busters.

TOAA >> LT >> Omniversal busters

Simple as that.

Marvel Omniverse is even bigger, scale-wise than Tenchi Muyo!┤s hyper-dimensions.

There is a anime/manga called Slayers, with a God named Lord of Nightmares, she was stated to be omnipotent, the creator and all the rest.
But she showed flaws, a being in her own creation, survived a direct blast from her.

If you don┤t question then you stay ignorant. the marvel omniverse is not bigger that the tenchi omniverse or dc for that matter just because the wording is a little different (i.e. omniverse, hyper-dimensions) doesnt make them larger or smaller. we only know of the known marvel omniverse when in reality it is infinite and for all practical purpose part of the TOAA itself, that same logic and reasoning applies to all such realities despite the medium which the stories are told. Dont scrutinize it because of a difference in wording or because it's a anime instead of a comic god is god regardless of what his title is. Your line of thinking is that there is even more power beyond the likes of Kami and TOAA and there is not, if some new comic company sprang up over night and called there god Ruler of all that doesnt make him any less powerful than Kami tenchi or TOAA. TOAA is flawless and infinite in marvel, as is Kami tenchi in tenchi muyo

Astner
Accept it, none in Tenchi Muyo! have feats anywhere close to Beyonder in his days, he wins by default.

And he does not represent the power of the wrtiers either.

Point is, you can have the power of a Infinite and do all those things and state all the things that Kami Tenchi did--create universes, dimension life etc. you don┬┤t have to be TOAA to do what Kami Tenchi did.

lando005
Originally posted by Astner
Accept it, none in Tenchi Muyo! have feats anywhere close to Beyonder in his days, he wins by default.

And he does not represent the power of the wrtiers either.

Point is, you can have the power of a Infinite and do all those things and state all the things that Kami Tenchi did--create universes, dimension life etc. you don┬┤t have to be TOAA to do what Kami Tenchi did. Why would he need feats? God doesn't have to make regular showing to prove his standings otherwise we would be seeing a lot more of TOAA, same goes for Kami. He doesn't have to show anything he is the most power person in tenchi U. If you question that then people could honestly question TOAA. He doesn't appear regularly and beat down top tiers to show off how powerful he is now does he. Your failing ot recognize Kami's standing in tenchi they could change his name to TOAA and it would be the same thing. Just because he is from a different company doesn't make him any less powerful

Astner
Yes, people could question TOAA, they have all right doing so.

But from what┤s stated in biographies and what not, TOAA is supreme in Marvel, thus beyond Omniversal busters.

Kami, is a etinity in the series which power surpasses the Choushin┤s, and he does not surpass any Omniversal buster, from what┤s on panel.

God doesn┤t really mean anything, Kami, God in Dragonball was surpassed by Goku.

Even Cube Beings have a level of omnipotence and infinite power.

In fictions there is always infinity + 1, there is no prime state which you cannot surpass, because you can always draw a more powerful being.

And the title is quite old, besides there are a Celestial named The One Above All--title does not equal authority or power.

Spider-man could also change his name, being the most powerful in a universe don┤t stand for much, look at Shaman King for instance--the king od spirits, omnipotent, the powers that shaped the universe, yet no feat surpassing Eternity even ... Fact is Eternity┤s feats surpasses it.
- Also Dragonball is a good example for that most powerful in the universe ... Bah you get the picture.

I┤ve debated this at the NF, for what was about 30 pages, I made hundreds of post, not really convicing anyone (as far as I know) -- So I┤m not going to spend more time here.
You cannot learn a old dog to sit right, as they outwaited (to death) the scientists that didn┤t accept that the atom could be splitted.
You cannot be convinced, because you act like you have it all figured out, your mind closed for new ideas--as I said I won┤t keep on trying.

lando005
Originally posted by Astner
Yes, people could question TOAA, they have all right doing so.

But from what┤s stated in biographies and what not, TOAA is supreme in Marvel, thus beyond Omniversal busters.

Kami, is a etinity in the series which power surpasses the Choushin┤s, and he does not surpass any Omniversal buster, from what┤s on panel.

God doesn┤t really mean anything, Kami, God in Dragonball was surpassed by Goku.

Even Cube Beings have a level of omnipotence and infinite power.

In fictions there is always infinity + 1, there is no prime state which you cannot surpass, because you can always draw a more powerful being.

And the title is quite old, besides there are a Celestial named The One Above All--title does not equal authority or power.

Spider-man could also change his name, being the most powerful in a universe don┤t stand for much, look at Shaman King for instance--the king od spirits, omnipotent, the powers that shaped the universe, yet no feat surpassing Eternity even ... Fact is Eternity┤s feats surpasses it.
- Also Dragonball is a good example for that most powerful in the universe ... Bah you get the picture.

I┤ve debated this at the NF, for what was about 30 pages, I made hundreds of post, not really convicing anyone (as far as I know) -- So I┤m not going to spend more time here.
You cannot learn a old dog to sit right, as they outwaited (to death) the scientists that didn┤t accept that the atom could be splitted.
You cannot be convinced, because you act like you have it all figured out, your mind closed for new ideas--as I said I won┤t keep on trying. i'm not saying i'm never wrong or i have it all worked out in my mind but beings like Kami and TOAA are without question for their respective universes that's the only point i'm trying to make there is not such thing as an infinity+1 because infinity means just that never ending without limit so there is not way to +1 something like that TOAA is limitless in every way shape and form that is why he is the true god of marvel, Kami is limitless in every way shape and form that is why he is the true god of tenchi trying to argue which one of them is more powerful is pointless, beyonder is not without his limits and thus weaker than TOAA. If we compare TOAA and GOD for dc would you say one is weaker than the other? no because both are without rival or limits Kami-tenchi is no different from them. Why do you believe that just because he is not from a comic that this same concept doesn't apply

Endless Mike
To clarify, no one survived an attack by the Lord of Nightmares in Slayers, what happened was Lina channeled her power through herself and couldn't control it, and that's why it didn't work. If L-sama herself had been personally behind the attack, it would have worked easily.

Astner
Originally posted by Endless Mike
To clarify, no one survived an attack by the Lord of Nightmares in Slayers, what happened was Lina channeled her power through herself and couldn't control it, and that's why it didn't work. If L-sama herself had been personally behind the attack, it would have worked easily.
Speculation.

The Giga Slave is a portion of L-sama┤s power, no where does it say it was limited by Lina, or by the user.

Besides Ruby Eye Shabranigdo, has not even feats that put him over Dr. Strange ... Yet he survived a blast from Lina who was hosted by L-sama, yes you SUMMON L-sama when you cast Giga Slave.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Astner
Speculation.

The Giga Slave is a portion of L-sama┤s power, no where does it say it was limited by Lina, or by the user.

Besides Ruby Eye Shabranigdo, has not even feats that put him over Dr. Strange ... Yet he survived a blast from Lina who was hosted by L-sama, yes you SUMMON L-sama when you cast Giga Slave.

Shabranigdo was the source of all magic in an entire universe, he's an Eternity - level entity. L-sama destroyed Hellmaster Phibrizzo because he asked her to, normally she just wouldn't care, and Lina couldn't handle her power correctly.

Your argument is analogous to stating that when Green Arrow used all of his willpower and only make one arrow with Hal's GL ring, that is the maximum possible power of a GL ring.

Astner
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Shabranigdo was the source of all magic in an entire universe, he's an Eternity - level entity. L-sama destroyed Hellmaster Phibrizzo because he asked her to, normally she just wouldn't care, and Lina couldn't handle her power correctly.

Your argument is analogous to stating that when Green Arrow used all of his willpower and only make one arrow with Hal's GL ring, that is the maximum possible power of a GL ring.
roll eyes (sarcastic) -- Have you even read the novels?

There are a manga and a anime as well, but they┬┤re crap. In the novels the author even claims he have conntact with L-sama ... Schizophernia?

Endless Mike
That's called breaking the fourth wall.

Do you think the writers of She - Hulk, Deadpool, and Lobo comics are schizophrenic?

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