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They fight.

Mangog.

Mangog

Superman wins.
superdur

Originally posted by llagrok
They fight.

mangog

superman could bfr him which is pretty hard to do,i think thor tried to bfr him once and got smashed.
but if bfr is not allowed,in a straight up fight mangog is a physical beast he also has some magical powers i think so mangog ftw.

Mangog

Straight - up fight, Superman loses. If he plays it smart and uses all of his intelligence and resources, he could find a way to win

mangog wins.

Mangog shouldn't have a problem.

magog woul dbattle with supes but supes would falter here.

mangog

IMO, Superman is more than strong enough to hurt Mangog.
Why is mangog so overrated? Odin is just a class 90 at best.
Mangog strength could be a little over 1000tons. How could you prove me wrong?

Superman will probably be beaten here. He's faster, but Mangog is a beast.

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, Superman is more than strong enough to hurt Mangog.
Why is mangog so overrated? Odin is just a class 90 at best.
Mangog strength could be a little over 1000tons. How could you prove me wrong?


..point?

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, Superman is more than strong enough to hurt Mangog.
Why is mangog so overrated? Odin is just a class 90 at best.
Mangog strength could be a little over 1000tons. How could you prove me wrong?
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/General_Lynch/photos/al-bundy-02.jpg

Originally posted by Grinning Goku
but Mangog is a beast.

So is Beast from X-men. But he is not beating Superman.

Originally posted by llagrok
..point?

Point is that if we are to judge how strong or durable someone is by feats alone then Superman wins this hands down.

Originally posted by h1a8
Point is that if we are to judge how strong or durable someone is by feats alone then Superman wins this hands down. Superman also has low showings and has lost to weaker opponents than Mangog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman also has low showings and has lost to weaker opponents than Mangog.

Low showings don't count here since they contradict both the high ones and the rule of fighting to your best abilities. The only high ones that don't count are the ones that have PIS or CIS involved.

Originally posted by h1a8
Low showings don't count here since they contradict both the high ones and the rule of fighting to your best abilities. The only high ones that don't count are the ones that have PIS or CIS involved. Mangogs high ones include him beating odin who easily beats Superman. Either way you have it Supes is crushed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Low showings don't count here since they contradict both the high ones and the rule of fighting to your best abilities. The only high ones that don't count are the ones that have PIS or CIS involved. So... Superman has absolutely no chance to take out Mangog then?

Why would you want that?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So... Superman has absolutely no chance to take out Mangog then?

Why would you want that?

I don't care who wins these forum battles. Shocking huh? I'm an objective person and choose this comic debating as a hobbie to increase both my truth seeing and debating skills. But if one was to use Mangog's high feats then would it tell us that he can at least lift over 1000tons or that he is fast enough to respond to light speed attacks? I'm asking this question not assuming the answer for I can't really say anything since I've only seen a few appearances of Mangog. But from what I've seen I doubt that he's on Superman's level of strength and speed.

You do realize that ignoring low feats means that Superman has no chance of even hurting Mangog, right?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You do realize that ignoring low feats means that Superman has no chance of even hurting Mangog, right?

Did you read my post above? It is asking for what Mangog has done featwise to put his strength level at or above Superman's. This goes for his speed too. This is what I've said:

But if one was to use Mangog's high feats then would it tell us that he can at least lift over 1000tons or that he is fast enough to respond to light speed attacks?...from what I've seen I doubt that he's on Superman's level of strength and speed.

Even in Mangog's low showings he does things like beat Thor unconscious and shrug of anti-force blasts.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Even in Mangog's low showings he does things like beat Thor unconscious and shrug of anti-force blasts.

Note: I carefully avoided talking about his durability even though physical blunt durability is something different. My interests have change to his strength and speed. I consider Superman much much more physically durable that Thor. Plus how do we know that Mangog is fast enough where Superman won't see him as a statue?

Again what are Mangog's high showings that prove Superman won't hurt him. And are there any that show that he is strong enough to hurt Superman and is fast enough to even touch Superman?

If he can hurt Thor, he is more than strong enough to hurt Superman, and even during that low showing he was throwing punches too fast for the Recorder to keep count.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't care who wins these forum battles. Shocking huh? I'm an objective person and choose this comic debating as a hobbie to increase both my truth seeing and debating skills. But if one was to use Mangog's high feats then would it tell us that he can at least lift over 1000tons or that he is fast enough to respond to light speed attacks? I'm asking this question not assuming the answer for I can't really say anything since I've only seen a few appearances of Mangog. But from what I've seen I doubt that he's on Superman's level of strength and speed. Evidently you do, as you just tried to negate all of Superman's low feats, and you're only arguing on speed, and strength.

Mangog can lift 1 ton for all I care. He's still stronger than Thor by a hefty margin. And no, he has no lifting feats (although he did rip a bridge out from underneath Odin/company)
Anyway, Mangog's reactions are pretty good:
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/2425/thor25014uc6.th.jpg

And his hand speed is pretty off the chain. Recorder... a highly advanced robot can't follow his blows.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7458/thorvol252602417bx2.th.jpg

Plus, all Superman has to do is touch him:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/972/thor15603um0.th.jpg

If you've seen nothing of Mangog ('cause come on... let's be serious here), how can you assume his power level?

In a straight physical brawl? Mangog. However, Superman could use BFR. It's about his only way to win though.

H1 argues on powerset alone. He prolly doesnt know a thing about Mangog other than what wiki told him.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Evidently you do, as you just tried to negate all of Superman's low feats, and you're only arguing on speed, and strength.

Mangog can lift 1 ton for all I care. He's still stronger than Thor by a hefty margin. And no, he has no lifting feats (although he did rip a bridge out from underneath Odin/company)
Anyway, Mangog's reactions are pretty good:
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/2425/thor25014uc6.th.jpg

And his hand speed is pretty off the chain. Recorder... a highly advanced robot can't follow his blows.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7458/thorvol252602417bx2.th.jpg

Plus, all Superman has to do is touch him:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/972/thor15603um0.th.jpg

If you've seen nothing of Mangog ('cause come on... let's be serious here), how can you assume his power level?

I've seen those (except the blow tallying one). As I've said I did see a couple of his appearances.
But those are unimpressive compared to Superman.
I fail to see how Mangog is even stronger than Thor. He may be more durable than Thor but certainly not necessary stronger than Thor or faster than Superman. Plus I didn't see Thor bleeding at all. Maybe Superman wouldn't feel anything.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If he can hurt Thor, he is more than strong enough to hurt Superman, and even during that low showing he was throwing punches too fast for the Recorder to keep count.

Unimpressive. He didn't even beat blood from Thor like DS does to Superman. And the recorder limits are probably several multiples of the speed of sound. Nothing compared to the speed of light.

Originally posted by h1a8
Unimpressive. He didn't even beat blood from Thor like DS does to Superman. And the recorder limits are probably several multiples of the speed of sound. Nothing compared to the speed of light.

rigellian recorders are made on rigel-3 by the alien race that taught dr.doom how to transfer his mind, they are one of the most intelligent races in the universe. the recorders are advanced robots superior to those of earth.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
rigellian recorders are made on rigel-3 by the alien race that taught dr.doom how to transfer his mind, they are one of the most intelligent races in the universe. the recorders are advanced robots superior to those of earth.

still doesn't prove that he was punching any speed comparable to light speed. Being superior doesn't mean better at everything (just most things). And when you say Earth you must refer to marvel Earth and not the real (our own) Earth. For their is both technology and great minds on Marvel Earth that exceeds most races in the universe.

I get it, you have no idea who Mangog or the Recorder even are.

Next time just say so.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I get it, you have no idea who Mangog or the Recorder even are.

Next time just say so.

Originally posted by h1a8
still doesn't prove that he was punching any speed comparable to light speed. Being superior doesn't mean better at everything (just most things). And when you say Earth you must refer to marvel Earth and not the real (our own) Earth. For their is both technology and great minds on Marvel Earth that exceeds most races in the universe.

k look, the space robot couldn't record the strikes of mangog so believe whatever you want, but you do know that hitting superman isn't the impossible task everybody is claiming it is:

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1706/96708856lj2.th.jpg

though mangog is faster, i and the logical community will settle for his speed being equal to batman's....so we both win....but if mangog connects that same punch, superman comics will be discontinued.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
k look, the space robot couldn't record the strikes of mangog so believe whatever you want, but you do know that hitting superman isn't the impossible task everybody is claiming it is:

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1706/96708856lj2.th.jpg

though mangog is faster, i and the logical community will settle for his speed being equal to batman's....so we both win....but if mangog connects that same punch, superman comics will be discontinued.

There was obviously some plot device going on there. Superman severely weakened, etc. Otherwise the writer should be shot. And I mean that.

stifling....i understand, but this is a done deal.
superman may get one win but it will result in his death anyway so...?
superman 1*/10

mangog is far above the doomsdays that battled superman IMO so you get the picture.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
k look, the space robot couldn't record the strikes of mangog so believe whatever you want, but you do know that hitting superman isn't the impossible task everybody is claiming it is:

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1706/96708856lj2.th.jpg

though mangog is faster, i and the logical community will settle for his speed being equal to batman's....so we both win....but if mangog connects that same punch, superman comics will be discontinued.
Thats not regular batman and superman isnt bound by pis/cis in a forum fight,way to leave out information.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
stifling....i understand, but this is a done deal.
superman may get one win but it will result in his death anyway so...?
superman 1*/10

mangog is far above the doomsdays that battled superman IMO so you get the picture.

What? DD will dog walk Mangog.

You've already proven that you don't know who Mangog is, you don't have to keep proving it.

it's more like dd getting dog mauled like an unfamiliar toddler....that speaks politely.

Like I said, no need to keep proving it.

Okay well I haven't seen Mangog before. Don't know him from Adam so how about throwing up some additional scans that prove he is Sup's better?

Let's put it this way, in his lowest showing ever he was able to ko Thor and shrug of the anti-force blast, IIRC in his other showing he basically walked through asgard and it took Odin to stop him.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've seen those (except the blow tallying one). As I've said I did see a couple of his appearances.
But those are unimpressive compared to Superman.
I fail to see how Mangog is even stronger than Thor. He may be more durable than Thor but certainly not necessary stronger than Thor or faster than Superman. Plus I didn't see Thor bleeding at all. Maybe Superman wouldn't feel anything. I showed one reflex, and the other one apparently flew over your head.

So... you know nothing about Mangog? You fail to see how Mangog is stronger than Thor? You've never read a comic involving Mangog... let's be serious here. You could at least pretend you did by reading his respect thread...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t469154.html


Thor needs to bleed to show that it would effect others? Is this even logic?
Thor was knocked out last I checked.

Holy smokes you're ridiculous. Seriously.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Let's put it this way, in his lowest showing ever he was able to ko Thor and shrug of the anti-force blast, IIRC in his other showing he basically walked through asgard and it took Odin to stop him.

A mystical creature should have some resistance to mystical attacks. Otherwise he was just beating up on a bunch of class 40s. And energy durability is not the same as physical blunt durability. Show me some individual feats (not outcomes of battles) that can definitely place Mangog over Superman (or DD) in strength, speed, and blunt durability.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I showed one reflex, and the other one apparently flew over your head.

So... you know nothing about Mangog? You fail to see how Mangog is stronger than Thor? You've never read a comic involving Mangog... let's be serious here. You could at least pretend you did by reading his respect thread...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t469154.html


Thor needs to bleed to show that it would effect others? Is this even logic?
Thor was knocked out last I checked.

Holy smokes you're ridiculous. Seriously.
Hell, juggernaut can ko Thor if he hit him the same amount of times Mangog did.
Show me two good feats that proves that Mangog's strength is greater than Thor's. Because I think you're hypnotized by his size and durability.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hell, juggernaut can ko Thor if he hit him the same amount of times Mangog did.
Show me two good feats that proves that Mangog's strength is greater than Thor's. Because I think you're hypnotized by his size and durability. I dont know where you get your theories from. Mangog is clearly>>Thor.

No Juggernaut can not. And Juggernaut is stronger than Thor anyway. So... faulty comparison much?

Only two?

http://www.picsaway.com/view/thor_157_10-ead469db15.jpg
http://www.picsaway.com/view/thor_157_11-fa082d7fc2.jpg

http://www.picsaway.com/view/thor_157_16-970338b545.jpg
http://www.picsaway.com/view/thor_157_17-90bfe5aa7c.jpg

I'm not hypnotized by anything.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hell, juggernaut can ko Thor if he hit him the same amount of times Mangog did.
Show me two good feats that proves that Mangog's strength is greater than Thor's. Because I think you're hypnotized by his size and durability.

The way Mangog dealt with Ulik?

I hate to break this too you but his durability was given as the reason he was able to withstand the anti-force blast.

Okay I did check out Mangog's respect thread and I'll agree he is impressive, but in all the scans I saw he never did anything quite like this.

You're joking, right?

taking an anti-force blast in the spine while not prepared is pretty badass. then to add to that he was fine and then proceeded to beat on thor after.

Originally posted by deadspeak25
Okay I did check out Mangog's respect thread and I'll agree he is impressive, but in all the scans I saw he never did anything quite like this.



Punching Lobo through a spaceship is what you came up with?

Originally posted by tkitna


Punching Lobo through a spaceship is what you came up with?

It's rather sad isn't it, I mean Wonderman has pulled the punch a person through a spaceship move, I guess he'd beat Mangog.

I'm not saying that Superman would win by any means. Don't get me wrong the Lobo scan is certainly not one of Sup's greater feats, however knocking someone into orbit seems to be a little tougher than beating them around on the ground. As far as the Anti-force blast. . .not sure how strong that attack is, but we all know Sup's has taken multiple hits from OE and come back for more.

Once again not saying sups woud win, but I think given enough time that it would go either way.

The only way this could go either way is if you give Superman a sundip and a GL ring, or if we use Mangog's lowest ever showing.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The only way this could go either way is if you give Superman a sundip and a GL ring, or if we use Mangog's lowest ever showing.

Is Mangog really that far above Superman pal?

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Is Mangog really that far above Superman pal? He's supposed to be the manifestation of billions of billions of beings. An entire race. Makes sense he is that powerful as originally conceived.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's rather sad isn't it, I mean Wonderman has pulled the punch a person through a spaceship move, I guess he'd beat Mangog. and thor punched harold jaekelson into permanent orbit also....and mangog beasted thor.

Not sure if its canon, but I know i've seen scans of Sup's beating Thor as well. Seemed to amaze the crap outa Thor at the time.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Is Mangog really that far above Superman pal?

Yes, he is.

To be fair, I consider Thor beating him to be a rather low showing and even then Thor had to shove Mjolnir down his throat and fire an anti-force blast.

Originally posted by deadspeak25
Not sure if its canon, but I know i've seen scans of Sup's beating Thor as well. Seemed to amaze the crap outa Thor at the time.

And it took so much out of him that he could barely stand and was slurring his speech, meanwhile Mangog had a much easier time beating Thor and that was during what many consider a low showing for Mangog.

Originally posted by deadspeak25
Not sure if its canon, but I know i've seen scans of Sup's beating Thor as well. Seemed to amaze the crap outa Thor at the time.

Debatable as to whether or not it is canon.

In a straight fight, Superman really has little chance. As mentioned, Mangog's lowest feat has him beating on Thor. Superman's low feats involve getting crushed by the daily globe and getting beat around by run-of-the-mill villains. Unless a scan can be used to show that Mangog's physical durability is any different from his magical/energy durability, I am still of the belief that he is Superman's physical superior in every way.

what? thor battles herald levels all the time and his hammer impacts can damage most of the unbreakable defenses in comicdom. mangog took those hits and gave them back. for christ sakes he was beaten by an anti-force blast down his damn throat after all, you could at least acknowledge that his outer hide must have been totally impervious to his best efforts for thor to go to such lengths.

i believe superman wins,mangong is just a bag of hype to me, no way he has feats that put him so far beyond superman, speedblitzs, and heat vision ftw

Spoken like someone that has never read a single Mangog story in his life.

I don't think he's all hype but I agree that the scans I've seen don't lend Mangog to being very speedy. Now with his durability being what it is I agree that he's uber tough, but perhaps using his breath to freeze mangog and then blitzing he'd have a change.

Originally posted by cmack
i believe superman wins

Take your faith in Superman else where because Superman's going to be a blood stain in this fight. Mangog 10/10.

mangog 10/10. Not to many people out there that could best mangog. Im going to say it like this, mangog>>>despero and we seen what despero did to the jla/jsa.

You guys are full of crap.
Mangog isn't necessarily much stronger than Thor. I admit, those scans do show that Mangog's strength is probably slightly greatly than Thors. But know this, Superman is a lot stronger than Thor. Hell, I see Thor in the 1000-100000ton range and Superman in the quadrillion ton range.

Only fanboyism says that Mangog is stronger than Superman and DD.
What a crock.

Superman >>>>Mangog in strength and speed
Thus wins this.

Originally posted by h1a8
I admit, those scans do show that Mangog's strength is probably slightly greatly than Thors.

How do you deal with someone like you? That is the question.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist


How do you deal with someone like you? That is the question.

At least I'm honest. I will never lie. And what I believe I believe because all of my common sense and logic is telling me. I'm not perfect though.
But I'm getting better.

What common sense and logic?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What common sense and logic?

That one is only stronger if it is proven to be and not because someone says. I see no good reason to say that Mangog is even stronger than Juggs, let alone Superman.

The guy saying that Superman would beat Mangog has no right to talk about common sense or logic.

Originally posted by h1a8
That one is only stronger if it is proven to be and not because someone says. I see no good reason to say that Mangog is even stronger than Juggs, let alone Superman.

Show me some proof that despero is stronger then superman besides the time he one shotted him. There isnt any but we all know it because of who he fought and what he has done. Show me some proof that galactus is stronger then superman, does that also mean that superman is stronger then him also.

By the way, where in the hell are you getting superman strength is so far above thor, they must have arm wrestled in a comic and superman won because I have yet to see thor struggle to lift ANYTHING.

no, i get his stance on the matter, it's one of a person that reads supes titles regularly so he can't be at fault. superman does stuff in his stories that he really shouldn't sometimes but thats the way it is.

the common consensus though is that the silver surfer is superior overall to superman, at that same time however thor and the silver surfer have quite the equal stance in marvel and the victor out of the two is unclear.

mangog has beaten thor down with ease though, no bs or playing around he just flat out thrashes him. he is far above thor.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
no, i get his stance on the matter, it's one of a person that reads supes titles regularly so he can't be at fault. superman does stuff in his stories that he really shouldn't sometimes but thats the way it is.

the common consensus though is that the silver surfer is superior overall to superman, at that same time however thor and the silver surfer have quite the equal stance in marvel and the victor out of the two is unclear.

mangog has beaten thor down with ease though, no bs or playing around he just flat out thrashes him. he is far above thor.

Everything that you have said is so true.

Superman and wonderwoman are gods in this forum when yet they have so many people far above them.

I cant believe people are actually debating against mangog in this battle but I do believe that h1a8 would debate in supermans favor because he is the one that said that superman could blitz odin and superman is skyfather level AND that superman could beat thanos and could give tyrant a fight and he also said that he could beat surfer.

Who is it that he said superman cant beat.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me some proof that despero is stronger then superman besides the time he one shotted him. There isnt any but we all know it because of who he fought and what he has done. Show me some proof that galactus is stronger then superman, does that also mean that superman is stronger then him also.

By the way, where in the hell are you getting superman strength is so far above thor, they must have arm wrestled in a comic and superman won because I have yet to see thor struggle to lift ANYTHING.

I thought that the only way to prove stronger was by feats.
What do you suggest?

You could look at who they fought and how well they did.

Or you could just count feats, in which case Wonderman is far stronger than Doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
Everything that you have said is so true.

Superman and wonderwoman are gods in this forum when yet they have so many people far above them.

I cant believe people are actually debating against mangog in this battle but I do believe that h1a8 would debate in supermans favor because he is the one that said that superman could blitz odin and superman is skyfather level AND that superman could beat thanos and could give tyrant a fight and he also said that he could beat surfer.

Who is it that he said superman cant beat.

I don't think Superman can give tyrant a fight. I believe with his best abilities he can make a fight on Thanos, Odin (only through trying to hit him before he can react), and I think Supes can beat SS through instant speed blitz (but this depends on the below).

I'll compromise though. If Thor can hang with SS then Superman will dog walk SS. But if SS is supposed to beat Thor handily then SS probably beats Superman for slight majority. You fanboys can't have it both ways so choose what you like.

Originally posted by h1a8
I thought that the only way to prove stronger was by feats.
What do you suggest?

Again show me a feat that shows doomsday being stronger or even close to superman strength because i have yet to see him lift anything heavy.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You could look at who they fought and how well they did.

Or you could just count feats, in which case Wonderman is far stronger than Doomsday.

It's takes great logic and decent amount of evidence to discern strength from how a battle went. Knocking someone away doesn't prove stronger since nearly all character's weigh much less than lifting strength. Juggs nearly koed Thor in less hits than Mangog did. Is he stronger than Mangog?

And DD has greater strength feats then Wonderman. For I say overpowering a Superman grip means that you are indeed stronger than Superman and thus Wonderman.

Originally posted by carver9
Again show me a feat that shows doomsday being stronger or even close to superman strength because i have yet to see him lift anything heavy.

In HP he lifted several massive objects. But DD overpowering a Superman grip really proves it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Juggs nearly koed Thor in less hits than Mangog did. Is he stronger than Mangog?

One hits, two hits?

And nearly is the key word.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think Superman can give tyrant a fight. I believe with his best abilities he can make a fight on Thanos, Odin (only through trying to hit him before he can react), and I think Supes can beat SS through instant speed blitz (but this depends on the below).

I'll compromise though. If Thor can hang with SS then Superman will dog walk SS. But if SS is supposed to beat Thor handily then SS probably beats Superman for slight majority. You fanboys can't have it both ways so choose what you like.

Superman is a bug to odin and yes I agree superman would give thanos a headache but the fight wont last more then 5 minutes. I honestly give thor the majority over superman. I dont agree with that speed blitz crap due to the fact that superman has centuries of proof that shows him being hit by bricks and that is more then enough evidence that proves that thor could go blow for blow with superman. KMC has a fantasy made up of superman that erases everything that superman is worth and have happened and done in comics. The reason I give thor a majority is he is just to da** versatile for superman and has a weapon that should be able to one shot superman since captain marvel is a magical base being and it has been shown 3 times that he can one shot superman and it was stated numerous of times that his punch could kill superman (look at the eclipso/superman vs captain marvel fight). Silver surfer should never lose to superman, surfer is just in a totally different class. This is a guy that just pull new powers out of his a**. And the reason why thor gives surfer a fight is because both are some of the most versatile characters in comics and they are basically equals. Also thor has no weakness but superman is pack full of them.

Originally posted by h1a8
For I say overpowering a Superman grip means that you are indeed stronger than Superman

Incorrect as Wonderman has done much the same to Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8
In HP he lifted several massive objects. But DD overpowering a Superman grip really proves it.

When did this grip feat happen because I havent seen this yet and I cant picture doomsday being in any kind of grip due to his rage.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's takes great logic and decent amount of evidence to discern strength from how a battle went. Knocking someone away doesn't prove stronger since nearly all character's weigh much less than lifting strength. Juggs nearly koed Thor in less hits than Mangog did. Is he stronger than Mangog?

And DD has greater strength feats then Wonderman. For I say overpowering a Superman grip means that you are indeed stronger than Superman and thus Wonderman. who cares how much he can benchpress, that shit doesn't matter anymore now does it. mangog kicked the shit out of thor thoroughly so it is implied that whatever thor can lift, mangog is superior to even that in order to take thor's blows.

the same is applied to doomsday....the guy never lifts anything because it is pointless for him to when he can cause more damage with his fists.

another example is the hulk who can cause 10.0 richtor scale destruction with his bare hands with minimal effort, whats a building going to do that his hands can't?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
who cares how much he can benchpress, that shit doesn't matter anymore now does it. mangog kicked the shit out of thor thoroughly so it is implied that whatever thor can lift, mangog is superior to even that in order to take thor's blows.

the same is applied to doomsday....the guy never lifts anything because it is pointless for him to when he can cause more damage with his fists.

another example is the hulk who can cause 10.0 richtor scale destruction with his bare hands with minimal effort, whats a building going to do that his hands can't?

I misunderstand. Who said anything about bench pressing?
I go by either lifting feats, hitting feats, or wrestling feats to prove the stronger. Mangog has no lifting, hitting, or wrestling feats that put him above Superman in strength. Being stronger than Thor doesn't mean you are stronger than Superman. And durability necessarily has nothing to do with strength. For example, Juggs is more durable than Gladiator and can withstand Thor's blows as well as Mangog can. But is Juggs stronger than someone who can pissingly 3 shot a planet at his best?

hulk busted a massive asteroid with one shot and his strength was lower than wwh's at the time. and wwh is at least equal to juggernaut in strength.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
hulk busted a massive asteroid with one shot and his strength was lower than wwh's at the time. and wwh is at least equal to juggernaut in strength.

I doubt it. If it was then WWH would have either been punching people into orbit easily or disintegrating people with his punches.

And I don't consider that asteroid feat valid since it is very old and PIS by definition.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's takes great logic and decent amount of evidence to discern strength from how a battle went. Knocking someone away doesn't prove stronger since nearly all character's weigh much less than lifting strength. Juggs nearly koed Thor in less hits than Mangog did. Is he stronger than Mangog?

And DD has greater strength feats then Wonderman. For I say overpowering a Superman grip means that you are indeed stronger than Superman and thus Wonderman.

It also takes great logic and extrapolation of evidence to discern how a battle would go on strength alone, a crutch which you seem to be leaning on. I would agree that beating an opponent in a physical fight does not equate solely to strength/durability/skill/speed, but the fact is that Mangog's physical triumphs over the Asgardians were solely down to strength and durability. I'm only concerned with whether or not Mangog could take a physical engagement with Superman, and his physical level, established by the average of his feats, says that he can. If you believe that ranged attacks like HV and freeze breath would work where an anti-force blast failed, you're welcome to prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I doubt it. If it was then WWH would have either been punching people into orbit easily or disintegrating people with his punches.

And I don't consider that asteroid feat valid since it is very old and PIS by definition.

and why is it pis because you dont want to accept a feat that happened. Well Im going to say superman turning the wheels is pis also.

Originally posted by carver9
and why is it pis because you dont want to accept a feat that happened. Well Im going to say superman turning the wheels is pis also.

I call PIS here because there is no feat Hulk has done to compare and that he shouldn't have done that under the stipulations of his powers (being mad). Meaning, there is no way Hulk was mad enough to become that strong. Hulk was much madder other times and got his ass beat.

Originally posted by h1a8
I misunderstand. Who said anything about bench pressing?
I go by either lifting feats, hitting feats, or wrestling feats to prove the stronger. Mangog has no lifting, hitting, or wrestling feats that put him above Superman in strength. Being stronger than Thor doesn't mean you are stronger than Superman. And durability necessarily has nothing to do with strength. For example, Juggs is more durable than Gladiator and can withstand Thor's blows as well as Mangog can. But is Juggs stronger than someone who can pissingly 3 shot a planet at his best?

Are you saying that Superman has no low strength feats? Come on.

Thanos has nary any lifting feats as well. I would still bet on him against the hulk. Being stronger than Thor doesn't make one stronger than Superman necessarily, but being Thor's dominant physical superior establishes Mangog's own physical level, and said level is a lot higher than Superman's own physical level, as established by his average feats.

Durability has nothing to do with strength, but it has a lot to do with how a physical confrontation would pan out.

Originally posted by h1a8
I call PIS here because there is no feat Hulk has done to compare and that he shouldn't have done that under the stipulations of his powers (being mad). Meaning, there is no way Hulk was mad enough to become that strong. Hulk was much madder other times and got his ass beat.

Every character has a highest feat. That was probably Hulk's best strength feat, save the anti-matter feat. Are we supposed to eliminate every character's best feat because there is no comparable feat, and hence must be PIS?

Hulk getting his ass beat doesn't mean he isn't strong enough to come up with strength feats. It simply means that he is outclassed in other areas. Make hulk as strong as possible, Galactus would still turn him into slime.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Are you saying that Superman has no low strength feats? Come on.

Thanos has nary any lifting feats as well. I would still bet on him against the hulk. Being stronger than Thor doesn't make one stronger than Superman necessarily, but being Thor's dominant physical superior establishes Mangog's own physical level, and said level is a lot higher than Superman's own physical level, as established by his average feats.

Durability has nothing to do with strength, but it has a lot to do with how a physical confrontation would pan out.

In what way showed that Mangog was at least twice as strong as Thor? Because people are hypnotized by his durability and size. So being dominate in durability doesn't mean you are stronger. Hell Mangog struggled like hell to lift that sword.

Originally posted by h1a8
I call PIS here because there is no feat Hulk has done to compare and that he shouldn't have done that under the stipulations of his powers (being mad). Meaning, there is no way Hulk was mad enough to become that strong. Hulk was much madder other times and got his ass beat.

So hulk destroying a planet with a punch is a feat that he shouldnt have done huh. What about the feat wwh did, he held a planet together with nothing but pure strength. He actually had one side of a splitting planet in one hand and had the other chunk in his other hand and pulled the planet back together. That takes nothing but pure strength.

Originally posted by h1a8
In what way showed that Mangog was at least twice as strong as Thor? Because people are hypnotized by his durability and size. So being dominate in durability doesn't mean you are stronger. Hell Mangog struggled like hell to lift that sword.

and titus struggled like hell to break out of a box that was created by green lantern that the lantern even stated had the weight of 100 tons but titus still one shotted superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
I call PIS here because there is no feat Hulk has done to compare and that he shouldn't have done that under the stipulations of his powers (being mad). Meaning, there is no way Hulk was mad enough to become that strong. Hulk was much madder other times and got his ass beat. If he did it once then he should be able to do it all the time. Plus you argue powerset alone and if you by the Hulks powers and his anger he wins most of the time due to the fact he only has anger based limitations.

Originally posted by h1a8
In what way showed that Mangog was at least twice as strong as Thor? Because people are hypnotized by his durability and size. So being dominate in durability doesn't mean you are stronger. Hell Mangog struggled like hell to lift that sword.

I believe I have made it clear that my stance is that strength isn't the only factor in a physical fight. If you're as logical as you claim, I'm sure you would follow. My point is that Mangog was shown to be extremely dominant over Thor, and has shown nothing throughout his appearances to say otherwise. That alone places him at a physical level above Superman's average. If you believe that there were other extenuating factors, feel free to prove them.

like i stated before, superman 1/10 on the off chance mangog is allergic to kryptonians.

but really, what can superman do that an anti-force blast to the spine when his back was turned can't do? heat vision, fast punches? superman doesn't have the power output needed to deal with a mangog.

Originally posted by Ouallada
If you believe that ranged attacks like HV and freeze breath would work where an anti-force blast failed, you're welcome to prove it.


These were Doomsday Clones, but there were enough of'em that I'll call this a decent feat for HV.

Originally posted by deadspeak25
These were Doomsday Clones, but there were enough of'em that I'll call this a decent feat for HV.

You do know that batman was taking out those doomsday clone with a da** ax. Wolverine might could have soloed 10 of those doomsday clones.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that batman was taking out those doomsday clone with a da** ax. Wolverine might could have soloed 10 of those doomsday clones. Exactly,those clones were nowhere near the real thing.

Okay well here's another.

Originally posted by deadspeak25
Okay well here's another.

What was so special about that post. Darkseid has been getting a** raped for years now. Darksied used to be above top tier but people like batman is making his a** bleed now. I guess he thinks batman batkick has gotten stronger over the years also since he did almost get koed by it.

Simply put, in all the times HV has been used, the number of times it has significantly damaged an opponent anywhere near Mangog is extremely low. Only Despero comes immediately to mind, although I am no expert on HV feats. Mangog has ranged blasts as well as matter manipulation, but I'm simply being realistic in saying that a physical confrontation would likely decide the outcome of this fight.

Okay one more and I'm headin to bed.

Part 2

And part 3.

I find this feat impressive. Oh and can someone post some scans of Mangog using a ranged blast? Like I said earlier I looked over the respect thread, and I probably missed it, but all I saw was him using physical strength. Till morrow.

None of those scans even come close to proving Superman would beat Mangog.

Seriously, Mangog lowest showing was shrugging off an anti-force blast and soundly ko'ing Thor.

Originally posted by Silent Master
None of those scans even come close to proving Superman would beat Mangog.

Seriously, Mangog lowest showing was shrugging off an anti-force blast and soundly ko'ing Thor.

Originally posted by deadspeak25
And part 3.

I find this feat impressive. Oh and can someone post some scans of Mangog using a ranged blast? Like I said earlier I looked over the respect thread, and I probably missed it, but all I saw was him using physical strength. Till morrow.

You do know that doomsday was one shotting imperex probes and aquaman killed a doomsday clone. You also know that black lightning was giving a doomsday clone a run for its money. You do know that wonder woman mother took two imperex probes out with a da** plane to the head, took there heads off.

Mangog>>>>>>>>any imperex probe.

Originally posted by carver9
So hulk destroying a planet with a punch is a feat that he shouldnt have done huh. What about the feat wwh did, he held a planet together with nothing but pure strength. He actually had one side of a splitting planet in one hand and had the other chunk in his other hand and pulled the planet back together. That takes nothing but pure strength.

That feat is not PIS. I except it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he did it once then he should be able to do it all the time. Plus you argue powerset alone and if you by the Hulks powers and his anger he wins most of the time due to the fact he only has anger based limitations.

Hulk will never ever perform that asteroid feat again (or anything close).
Holding a planet together will be the limit (since this was the maddest he has ever been).

Originally posted by Silent Master
None of those scans even come close to proving Superman would beat Mangog.

Seriously, Mangog lowest showing was shrugging off an anti-force blast and soundly ko'ing Thor.


And no high showing comes close to even proving that Mangog could even beat Superman.

What are his high showings that show he's necessarily stronger or faster than Superman? And anti-force blast is not blunt durability. It is more like energy durability.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that doomsday was one shotting imperex probes and aquaman killed a doomsday clone. You also know that black lightning was giving a doomsday clone a run for its money. You do know that wonder woman mother took two imperex probes out with a da** plane to the head, took there heads off.

Mangog>>>>>>>>any imperex probe.

Prove that Mangog>>>>a imperex probe.

WW's mother's plane (and all of the Amazons equipment) are magical and highly indestructible.

Give Hulk the size and durability of Mangog and he too will beat the sh!t out of Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk will never ever perform that asteroid feat again (or anything close).
Holding a planet together will be the limit (since this was the maddest he has ever been). The maddest he ever got was at the end of WW Hulk. His was simply walking and tearing up the eastern seaboard. Thats how damn angry and powerful he became. Again you are wrong and you already said all they have to do is a feat once since according to you they always fight at their best.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The maddest he ever got was at the end of WW Hulk. His was simply walking and tearing up the eastern seaboard. Thats how damn angry and powerful he became. Again you are wrong and you already said all they have to do is a feat once since according to you they always fight at their best.

No I said they have to do a feat once to show it is in their character (morals) and not in their abilities.

Originally posted by h1a8
No I said they have to do a feat once to show it is in their character (morals) and not in their abilities. WW Hulk was madder at the end of WW Hulk than the feat you described. You seem to pick and choose who gets to use their abilities at their max level though.

Two scenarios...

1. They fight twice. Mangog wins the first round, making Superman realize he's got to give this his all. After some rest, and now having had experience with the monster, Big Blue goes for broke, pulling out every stop like he did with Doomsday. With two massive bursts of energy, he HVs Mangog's head off just long enough to punch it into orbit (or he could just keep pounding Mngg into submission). Mangog dies; Superman goes into cardiac arrest. But this time, the doctors were prepared. They bring just enough kryptonite to "soften" Superman's body so that they can administer human treatment. Supes lives.

Later Superman comments that this was the toughest opponent he had ever faced, almost standing up to everything he had, blah, blah, blah...

2. They're fighting, and Superman realizes that this creature is nigh unbeatable ("I'd like to see Doomsday himself go up against this thing," he thinks). During their fight, great damage to the city is being done; Superman is clearly and steadily being overwhelmed by everything. He flies off to the side to save a bunch of children, though he knows this lowers his guard.

Superman saves the kids. Mangog is about to pound him into the dirt when the monster recoils in pain. "You risk your life to save tiny insects!" it bellows. Superman realizes quickly this kind of selflessness is pure poison to his foe. He stands proudly in Superman stance, allowing the monster to strike if need be, and letting the sheer essence of what he's always stood for, shine and drain Mangog of power. The nobility of the Man of Steel's soul is the strength which now gives him victory. (iirc, it worked for the Surfer)

Forget it, there is no point trying to reason with someone that would likely give Superman the win over the LT.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Forget it, there is no point trying to reason with someone that would likely give Superman the win over the LT.

Superman attacks him while his heads are deciding what to do.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Forget it, there is no point trying to reason with someone that would likely give Superman the win over the LT. The guy doesnt even read the comics. Dont get worked up by his radical opinion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The guy doesnt even read the comics. Dont get worked up by his radical opinion.

10 to 1 says that someone could start a thread about Hollywood w/power gem vs Superman and he'd vote for Superman to win.

I'm sorry guys not trying to be rude or anything and do not get me wrong I don't know for a fact that sup's can win, and yeah seams like he'd be an underdog in this fight, but since when is that any different from all the other villains he's faced? Based on what I've seen if given enough time (not sure how much time required btw) sup's versatility would eventually overcome.

I didn't realize that the hero must win rule was a valid debate tactic.

Ok. Thor vs Darkseid w/mother box, GL ring, power gem and the ALE = Thor wins because he's the hero.

That's silly. He doesn't have to win. I am not sure that he can win, but unless you show me more proof than I've seen so far its a close fight. Someone earlier said that mangog had energy projection, but I've yet to see some scans. . .how strong is it?. . .since his race was restored he no longer has all that billions of billions of people power anymore right? doesn't he now get his strength from the negative emotions eminating from those around him?

Earlier we were talking about HV. . .I found this.

We have also mentioned his artic, freeze breath or whatever you want to call it. . .which I think is a seriously underated ability.

This is a close fight in the same way that a Hand ninja vs Wolverine is a close fight.

This is still being debated?

Mangog wins,,,close thread.

Originally posted by Silent Master
10 to 1 says that someone could start a thread about Hollywood w/power gem vs Superman and he'd vote for Superman to win. Yes. But its to be expected he doesnt even know who the other character is sometimes and gives Superman the win.

Originally posted by Mindship
Two scenarios...

1. They fight twice. Mangog wins the first round, making Superman realize he's got to give this his all. After some rest, and now having had experience with the monster, Big Blue goes for broke, pulling out every stop like he did with Doomsday. With two massive bursts of energy, he HVs Mangog's head off just long enough to punch it into orbit (or he could just keep pounding Mngg into submission). Mangog dies; Superman goes into cardiac arrest. But this time, the doctors were prepared. They bring just enough kryptonite to "soften" Superman's body so that they can administer human treatment. Supes lives.

Later Superman comments that this was the toughest opponent he had ever faced, almost standing up to everything he had, blah, blah, blah...

2. They're fighting, and Superman realizes that this creature is nigh unbeatable ("I'd like to see Doomsday himself go up against this thing," he thinks). During their fight, great damage to the city is being done; Superman is clearly and steadily being overwhelmed by everything. He flies off to the side to save a bunch of children, though he knows this lowers his guard.

Superman saves the kids. Mangog is about to pound him into the dirt when the monster recoils in pain. "You risk your life to save tiny insects!" it bellows. Superman realizes quickly this kind of selflessness is pure poison to his foe. He stands proudly in Superman stance, allowing the monster to strike if need be, and letting the sheer essence of what he's always stood for, shine and drain Mangog of power. The nobility of the Man of Steel's soul is the strength which now gives him victory. (iirc, it worked for the Surfer)



Wasn't 616 iirc.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk will never ever perform that asteroid feat again (or anything close).
Holding a planet together will be the limit (since this was the maddest he has ever been).

For a person that supposedly argues based on fact, surely you understand that one feat required power, the other strength?

I guess we should arbitrarily eliminate the highest feats of every character unless they repeat said feats every week. Of course, that won't make those feats superlative anymore, but that doesn't bother you, does it?

Originally posted by Ouallada
For a person that supposedly argues based on fact, surely you understand that one feat required power, the other strength?

I guess we should arbitrarily eliminate the highest feats of every character unless they repeat said feats every week. Of course, that won't make those feats superlative anymore, but that doesn't bother you, does it? He uses a double standard it seems.

Originally posted by h1a8
And no high showing comes close to even proving that Mangog could even beat Superman.

What are his high showings that show he's necessarily stronger or faster than Superman? And anti-force blast is not blunt durability. It is more like energy durability.

Mangog's established power level as per his average > Superman's established power level as per his average. For every superlative feat Superman has, he has a dozen below that of Mangog.

Let's not even start with mangog's high showings. His lowest showing had him thrashing Thor and taking an anti-force blast (Jurgens' ultimate weapon for Thor). Mangog beat Thor physically, so if you do not think that Mangog has superior physical attributes, feel free to elaborate on what caused him to beat Thor, because Thor sure as hell didn't drop Mjolnir on his foot.

The comic described Thor's blows as nothing more than mosquito bites. That enough for physical durability?

Originally posted by h1a8
Prove that Mangog>>>>a imperex probe.

WW's mother's plane (and all of the Amazons equipment) are magical and highly indestructible.

Give Hulk the size and durability of Mangog and he too will beat the sh!t out of Thor.

If you are going to use an imperiex probe as an example for your arguement, the onus is on you to prove that an imperiex probe > Mangog.

WW beat a probe by crashing the plane into it. Only the force of said collision matters. A street level character could beat surfer all day long with an adamantium club. It still won't hurt SS.

What has size got to do with victory? Hank Pym skyfather now?

Originally posted by tkitna
This is still being debated?



It isn't debated. It is being denied.

Originally posted by quanchi112
WW Hulk was madder at the end of WW Hulk than the feat you described. You seem to pick and choose who gets to use their abilities at their max level though.

huh?
rule number 1
never butt in on a conversation you know nothing about.
I was referring to Planet Hulk (or WWH) vs. the Hulk that destroyed the asteriod. I was saying that Planet Hulk and WWH were a lot madder and therefore should have been a lot stronger (than asteroid Hulk). But they weren't. That is why Asteroid Hulk is PIS.

I wonder who all brainwashed you guys.
Listen up. Stop being followers.
I hope that breaks up the spell.

Anyway. Superman is stronger than Mangog unless there is proof that he isn't. Being stronger than Thor is not proof to being stronger than Superman. Also, even though he is fast, Mangog has yet to prove he can fight at light speeds.