Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

1) how many Celestials could Galactus defeat, at his absolute best?
2) how many (if any) as he beaten, on panel?
3) could Galactus beat ALL the earth's gods combined?
4) how did Surfer beat Galactus in an alternative universe?

oh and why does it say Odin created the Destroyer, when some say Galactus created it?

1. Not enough info. We've never seen Galactus "at his absolute best".
2. He beat the Black Celestial in one arc, in Earth X, Franklin Richards as Galactus beat a few of them
3. I would be hesistant to say yes, because there are probably a lot of really obscure but super powerful characters on earth.
4. No idea. I know in Last Planet Standing they merged together to become one being.

I've never heard anyone saying Galactus created the Destroyer. He used it as a Herald for a while, but Odin created it.

Originally posted by janus77
1) how many Celestials could Galactus defeat, at his absolute best?
2) how many (if any) as he beaten, on panel?
3) could Galactus beat ALL the earth's gods combined?
4) how did Surfer beat Galactus in an alternative universe?

oh and why does it say Odin created the Destroyer, when some say Galactus created it?

1) At his absolute best during the black Celestial arc he killed and consumed every Celestial in that universe.
2) On panel he beat every Celestial in the universe during black Celestial arc. In 616 he has not directly fought one yet.
3) Depends on his hunger / power level. On average he would be driven back. If he has prep, in Last Planet Standing he easily took out all of Asgard.
4) The Galactus in Exiles where Surfer was evil was actually a good being. He went around restoring worlds, he was a pacifist.

Odin created the Destroyer, Thor later gave it to Galactus and Galactus used it as a herald briefly.

I thought the Black Celestial Saga Galactus was the 616 Galactus, but most of it just took place in a different universe

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I thought the Black Celestial Saga Galactus was the 616 Galactus, but most of it just took place in a different universe

Different universe means it wasn't 616 Galactus.

Clarification: It was a replica of the 616 universe on a difergent timeline.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Different universe means it wasn't 616 Galactus.

Clarification: It was a replica of the 616 universe on a difergent timeline.

I thought different timelines were still the same universe

^ basically then, that confirms Galactus could do that. since nothing intrinsic to galactus was different, in those timelines, right?
no "power ups" added, no weaknesses removed etc etc.


why is Galactus so often depicted as being somewhat weak/lame?
he gets caught up in Thanos' machinations, he gets repulsed by the Fantastic Four, he can't even hold off The Phoenix for very long etc etc.

the Celestials seem comparatively impressive, what little I've seen of them on here.


and thanks both for the correction re The Destroyer.

Originally posted by janus77
1) how many Celestials could Galactus defeat, at his absolute best?
2) how many (if any) as he beaten, on panel?
3) could Galactus beat ALL the earth's gods combined?
4) how did Surfer beat Galactus in an alternative universe?

oh and why does it say Odin created the Destroyer, when some say Galactus created it?

Celestials>Galactus

Odin created the Destroyer to combat the Celestials. In some of the best Thors written, Odin was said to rival Galactus.

hmm, well that upsets the balance a little.
if Galactus = Odin, then it wouldn't make sense that Galactus could consume all of the Celestials in a universe (a replica of 616 at that), would it?

there's no argument that Celestials >>>>>>> Odin, right?

any on-panel victories to the Celestials, over Galactus?

Originally posted by janus77
hmm, well that upsets the balance a little.
if Galactus = Odin, then it wouldn't make sense that Galactus could consume all of the Celestials in a universe (a replica of 616 at that), would it?

there's no argument that Celestials >>>>>>> Odin, right?

any on-panel victories to the Celestials, over Galactus?

I know guy will have his say, now I will also put mine in

Odin was one of the top cosmics for a while...in the early 70's and such. Since then more and more emphasis has been placed on Galactus' power. Recent issues of annihilation, which came out last year, have stated that galactus is "the most powerful creature in the universe."

in the black celestial arc, reed stated on panel that the entire celestial host would be totally doomed if galactus were not stopped.

celestials have no on-panel victories over galactus. if there is a conflict between the two (a la earth x) galactus is shown to prevail.

IMO, galactus>1 celestial, no matter if arishem, exitar, OAA, or tiamut.

the entire celestial host would probably be > galactus. However, Galactus at his "absolute best" as you mentioned in your original post, has vast, enormous powers that make him "one with the universe" and total molecular control (though not on the grand scope of molecule man) of his environment (as stated to what happened to doom in secret wars...and that wasn't even all the power galactus was ready to consume). "one with the universe" makes him equal to Eternity when at full power.....Eternity>the celestial host, IMO.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I know guy will have his say, now I will also put mine in

Odin was one of the top cosmics for a while...in the early 70's and such. Since then more and more emphasis has been placed on Galactus' power. Recent issues of annihilation, which came out last year, have stated that galactus is "the most powerful creature in the universe."

in the black celestial arc, reed stated on panel that the entire celestial host would be totally doomed if galactus were not stopped.

celestials have no on-panel victories over galactus. if there is a conflict between the two (a la earth x) galactus is shown to prevail.

IMO, galactus>1 celestial, no matter if arishem, exitar, OAA, or tiamut.

the entire celestial host would probably be > galactus. However, Galactus at his "absolute best" as you mentioned in your original post, has vast, enormous powers that make him "one with the universe" and total molecular control (though not on the grand scope of molecule man) of his environment (as stated to what happened to doom in secret wars...and that wasn't even all the power galactus was ready to consume). "one with the universe" makes him equal to Eternity when at full power.....Eternity>the celestial host, IMO.

Points well taken

Franklin was Galactus in Earth X. In the Heroes Reborn series, Frankie is respected by the Celestials

Scathan/Tiamut/Arishem/Exitar IMO can beat Galactus

We agree, Celestials>Galactus

Full powered Galactus, well

Eternals established Galactus and Uatu fear Tiamut as he awakens

Eternity should be above Celestials. But about what Scathan. He's a Celestial who helped LT defeat Protege

Well, Galactus at his best was mentioned to be equal to Eternity.
Then, if that would be correct, I don't Celestials having much of a chance.

great info/points chaps , I would appreciate more background and maybe a good humoured debate amongst the respective champions of Galactus and the Celestials.


a couple of questions too,
1) Galactus consumed a universe, but he wasn't going to be sated by it and it was implied that he could continue consuming (another universe?), right?

2) Galactus is meant to keep a 'balance' or something like that, in the universe no? a bit like a gardener prunes and weeds a garden.


oh and what are the most awesome feats of specific Celestials?
(hmm, is there a respect thread for them ...)

Originally posted by guy222
Points well taken

Franklin was Galactus in Earth X. In the Heroes Reborn series, Frankie is respected by the Celestials

Scathan/Tiamut/Arishem/Exitar IMO can beat Galactus

We agree, Celestials>Galactus

Full powered Galactus, well

Eternals established Galactus and Uatu fear Tiamut as he awakens

Eternity should be above Celestials. But about what Scathan. He's a Celestial who helped LT defeat Protege







True but never the less he had the power of Galactus as mentioned, also as shown a single Celestial cannot down another single Celestial.

Scathan we know practically nothing about one appearance. Arishem/Tiamut/Exitar would all fall IMO against Galactus if the fought one against one.

Yes we done all the Celestials would Down Galactus

We both know that it was a move from the authors to make Tiamut a more interesting character which in my opinion wasn't required since most know how powerful the celestials are also the show fear thing is rather interesting because when the IG was assembled Galactus wasn't afraid but determent to wrest the Gauntlet from Thanos, not afraid but does this means that Tiamut>IG. No.

But when we get to Galactus vs Celestial we are always entering a gray area we doesn't have enough information regarding there power showings going both ways so its basically just speculation.

Originally posted by janus77
great info/points chaps , I would appreciate more background and maybe a good humoured debate amongst the respective champions of Galactus and the Celestials.


a couple of questions too,
1) Galactus consumed a universe, but he wasn't going to be sated by it and it was implied that he could continue consuming (another universe?), right?

2) Galactus is meant to keep a 'balance' or something like that, in the universe no? a bit like a gardener prunes and weeds a garden.


oh and what are the most awesome feats of specific Celestials?
(hmm, is there a respect thread for them ...)

1.) Yes reed believed that if he wasn't stopped he would consume the entire multiverse.

2.) well in some sense he is the balance between Eternity and Death and keeps the embordiment of Destruction (Abraxas) in tjeck.

Most impressive show by the Celestials hmm I'm voting for Arishem repelling the assault by Odin Vishnu and Zeus and then continue to almost cut of there connection to there godly realms, and of cause the Destroyer vs 4th Host.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I know guy will have his say, now I will also put mine in

Odin was one of the top cosmics for a while...in the early 70's and such. Since then more and more emphasis has been placed on Galactus' power. Recent issues of annihilation, which came out last year, have stated that galactus is "the most powerful creature in the universe."

in the black celestial arc, reed stated on panel that the entire celestial host would be totally doomed if galactus were not stopped.

celestials have no on-panel victories over galactus. if there is a conflict between the two (a la earth x) galactus is shown to prevail.

IMO, galactus>1 celestial, no matter if arishem, exitar, OAA, or tiamut.

the entire celestial host would probably be > galactus. However, Galactus at his "absolute best" as you mentioned in your original post, has vast, enormous powers that make him "one with the universe" and total molecular control (though not on the grand scope of molecule man) of his environment (as stated to what happened to doom in secret wars...and that wasn't even all the power galactus was ready to consume). "one with the universe" makes him equal to Eternity when at full power.....Eternity>the celestial host, IMO.



I have actually Tenebrous found some new and very interesting information concerning the Celestials. You know of the Promail Gods correct? Created by Eternity (rings a bell ), well one of them Brio to be precise strongly resembles a Celestial and his task seems to reassemble that of a Celestial. Now Diableri was the most powerful correct and how defeated him, Galactus! I know this is far of but never the less a theory that IMO should be examined more closely.

Originally posted by janus77
great info/points chaps , I would appreciate more background and maybe a good humoured debate amongst the respective champions of Galactus and the Celestials.


a couple of questions too,
1) Galactus consumed a universe, but he wasn't going to be sated by it and it was implied that he could continue consuming (another universe?), right?

2) Galactus is meant to keep a 'balance' or something like that, in the universe no? a bit like a gardener prunes and weeds a garden.


oh and what are the most awesome feats of specific Celestials?
(hmm, is there a respect thread for them ...)


1) it's been a long time since i read it, but some of mr. master's scans in one of the other threads shows reed explaining that all the energy created in the history of the universe will eventually not be enough to sate galactus. where he would go on from there would logically indicate another universe...can't remember if they actually said this on panel.

2) yes somewhat....the role of galactus in the universal order has been built upon so many times that he's probably the one non-abstract character in all of marvel that simply cannot be killed (permanetly, as far as that can go in comics)...because doing so would be triggering all the "galactus is important because he does this and that for the universe, and if he were gone the universe would end" scenarios that various writers have created for him over the decades.

generallly these are a few of the roles that Galactus has been given by writers over the years:

i. Galactus is the third force in the universe, the other two forces being Eternity (and his coutnerpart, Infinity) and Death (and her counterpart, Oblivion). As Galactus consumes worlds, he slowly converts more of Eternity into Death, while simultaneously making it "easier" for Eternity to thrive (out with the old, in with the new). Take out Galactus from the situation and the universe would crumble under its own weight and eventually die. this was explained in some issue of silver surfer, if i remember correctly.

ii. Galactus is some cosmic gardener that "tests" worlds and species for their ability to survive...failure of the test results in consumption of their world. John Byrne first introduced this idea. This is not unlike how the celestials "test" their subjects. One idea of conflict would be if the celestials were doing extensive work on a race, and galactus arrived to consume their world...but to my knowledge writers have never explored this.

iii. Most of the energy Galactus consumes from planets goes towards keeping the being known as Abraxas imprisoned. Why Galactus is the only one who can do this task has never been explained. Abraxas is a cosmic entity who's powers are vast, Abraxas >>>> Galactus, even at full power. The sole purpose of Abraxas is to end the multiverse, which is multi-Eternity. Death of Galactus means Abraxas is released...meaning the end of the multiverse.

iv. It's been strongly hinted several times that when the universe is finally near its end, Galactus will be the sole being left alive. At this point he will somehow be the catalyst for birthing the new universe...thus "giving back" what he has taken from the universe over how many trillions of years or whatever.


Finally as utrigita mentioned there is a grey area when it comes to comparing the celestials and galactus. The one thing they have in common is that both are always mentioned when it comes to characters having discussions on-panel (adam warlock, quasar, kosmos and kubik, thanos, etc.) on who are the most powerful entities in the universe.

The celestials' most awesome feats....well i would have to defer to guy. they usually act as a group, so it's hard to judge the power of one celestial vs. the power of galactus. i would say that on average, the casual power that one celestial wields is greater than what galactus has shown, again, on average (i.e., thor giving Galactus a hard time, arishem shrugging off blasts from thor. though Galactus has also shrugged off blasts from thor before, i should note)

on the other hand, the greatest feats of galactus far outstrip those of any one celestial, imo. Galactus has had battles that shatter entire galaxies as collateral damage, has confronted mystical entities, where the ensuing battle rippled across dimensions (vs. mephisto) and would eventually severely damage an entire realm (vs. agammoto). galactus also threatened to consume mephisto's hell realm and agammoto's magic realm. galactus has even reformed from being obliterated from a blast that was powered by no fewer than 5 cosmic cubes. so that is the grey area....there's never been a direct, canon confrontation between them.

however, one sure-fire thing that gives Galactus the edge: the ultimate nullifier, which is an aspect of Galactus. the UN allows Galactus the luxury of wiping out the entire celestial host, if he were so inclined.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
however, one sure-fire thing that gives Galactus the edge: the ultimate nullifier, which is an aspect of Galactus. the UN allows Galactus the luxury of wiping out the entire celestial host, if he were so inclined.

And the rest of the multiverse if he wanted.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
1) it's been a long time since i read it, but some of mr. master's scans in one of the other threads shows reed explaining that all the energy created in the history of the universe will eventually not be enough to sate galactus. where he would go on from there would logically indicate another universe...can't remember if they actually said this on panel.

2) yes somewhat....the role of galactus in the universal order has been built upon so many times that he's probably the one non-abstract character in all of marvel that simply cannot be killed (permanetly, as far as that can go in comics)...because doing so would be triggering all the "galactus is important because he does this and that for the universe, and if he were gone the universe would end" scenarios that various writers have created for him over the decades.

generallly these are a few of the roles that Galactus has been given by writers over the years:

i. Galactus is the third force in the universe, the other two forces being Eternity (and his coutnerpart, Infinity) and Death (and her counterpart, Oblivion). As Galactus consumes worlds, he slowly converts more of Eternity into Death, while simultaneously making it "easier" for Eternity to thrive (out with the old, in with the new). Take out Galactus from the situation and the universe would crumble under its own weight and eventually die. this was explained in some issue of silver surfer, if i remember correctly.

ii. Galactus is some cosmic gardener that "tests" worlds and species for their ability to survive...failure of the test results in consumption of their world. John Byrne first introduced this idea. This is not unlike how the celestials "test" their subjects. One idea of conflict would be if the celestials were doing extensive work on a race, and galactus arrived to consume their world...but to my knowledge writers have never explored this.

iii. Most of the energy Galactus consumes from planets goes towards keeping the being known as Abraxas imprisoned. Why Galactus is the only one who can do this task has never been explained. Abraxas is a cosmic entity who's powers are vast, Abraxas >>>> Galactus, even at full power. The sole purpose of Abraxas is to end the multiverse, which is multi-Eternity. Death of Galactus means Abraxas is released...meaning the end of the multiverse.

iv. It's been strongly hinted several times that when the universe is finally near its end, Galactus will be the sole being left alive. At this point he will somehow be the catalyst for birthing the new universe...thus "giving back" what he has taken from the universe over how many trillions of years or whatever.


Finally as utrigita mentioned there is a grey area when it comes to comparing the celestials and galactus. The one thing they have in common is that both are always mentioned when it comes to characters having discussions on-panel (adam warlock, quasar, kosmos and kubik, thanos, etc.) on who are the most powerful entities in the universe.

The celestials' most awesome feats....well i would have to defer to guy. they usually act as a group, so it's hard to judge the power of one celestial vs. the power of galactus. i would say that on average, the casual power that one celestial wields is greater than what galactus has shown, again, on average (i.e., thor giving Galactus a hard time, arishem shrugging off blasts from thor. though Galactus has also shrugged off blasts from thor before, i should note)

on the other hand, the greatest feats of galactus far outstrip those of any one celestial, imo. Galactus has had battles that shatter entire galaxies as collateral damage, has confronted mystical entities, where the ensuing battle rippled across dimensions (vs. mephisto) and would eventually severely damage an entire realm (vs. agammoto). galactus also threatened to consume mephisto's hell realm and agammoto's magic realm. galactus has even reformed from being obliterated from a blast that was powered by no fewer than 5 cosmic cubes. so that is the grey area....there's never been a direct, canon confrontation between them.

however, one sure-fire thing that gives Galactus the edge: the ultimate nullifier, which is an aspect of Galactus. the UN allows Galactus the luxury of wiping out the entire celestial host, if he were so inclined.

Again, good points

5th Celestial Host contained the Goblin Force. It had killed Galactus and the PF

Celestials have also embarassed the Odin/Destroyer

Its been said, Galactus' true form is a star. Celestials have the power to destroy stars. Its been said when Galactus dies he becomes a Celestial. I like the comparsion between the two

I will defer to u both. Has Galactus ever used the UN? In the original Galactus arc, he feared it. During the Abraxas storyline, it's apart of him

Celestials have a weapon known as 'The Weapon'

Originally posted by guy222
Again, good points

5th Celestial Host contained the Goblin Force. It had killed Galactus and the PF

Celestials have also embarassed the Odin/Destroyer

Its been said, Galactus' true form is a star. Celestials have the power to destroy stars. Its been said when Galactus dies he becomes a Celestial. I like the comparsion between the two

I will defer to u both. Has Galactus ever used the UN? In the original Galactus arc, he feared it. During the Abraxas storyline, it's apart of him

Celestials have a weapon known as 'The Weapon'
hi guy
what is know of the weapon?

Originally posted by lordboo
hi guy
what is know of the weapon?

Its speculation. It rivals the UN

It was used once to contain the essence of Tiamut, the Dreaming Celestial.

That didn't work as Tiamut has returned again. Eternals #6(I post some scans later), Tiamut stated it will take some time for them to get here(other Celestials)

Originally posted by guy222
Again, good points

5th Celestial Host contained the Goblin Force. It had killed Galactus and the PF

Celestials have also embarassed the Odin/Destroyer

Its been said, Galactus' true form is a star. Celestials have the power to destroy stars. Its been said when Galactus dies he becomes a Celestial. I like the comparsion between the two

I will defer to u both. Has Galactus ever used the UN? In the original Galactus arc, he feared it. During the Abraxas storyline, it's apart of him

Celestials have a weapon known as 'The Weapon'

True the goblin force was of great power. However i think that series occurred in an alternate universe in the mutant X comics, with a different Galactus than the one we know.

Originally posted by guy222
Again, good points

5th Celestial Host contained the Goblin Force. It had killed Galactus and the PF

Celestials have also embarassed the Odin/Destroyer

Its been said, Galactus' true form is a star. Celestials have the power to destroy stars. Its been said when Galactus dies he becomes a Celestial. I like the comparsion between the two

I will defer to u both. Has Galactus ever used the UN? In the original Galactus arc, he feared it. During the Abraxas storyline, it's apart of him

Celestials have a weapon known as 'The Weapon'

You make good points too.

Its true that it contained the Goblin Force what one need to remember is that it toke the combined might of the entire Celestial RACE to contain the Goblin Force as the scans clearly illustrate (couldn't find them but can remember it) "There entire Race devastated (celestial) they managed to ...."

A impressive feat but nothing makes me think Galactus couldn't have done the same.

In a sort of way, his energies rages with such a capacity that it even while he is severely weaken forms a star. Galactus has destroyed stars too, most of the origins of the Celestials are mainly done by Kubik and Kosmos I'm personally going with Eternity having created them.

Well strange isn't it that he feared it seeing as how in Tyrant vs Galactus fight Galactus completely drained couldn't disassemple the UN, but during his first encounter with the FF he was only hungry. Also Galactus has shown that he can easily escape the UN.

a group of celestials would murder galactus. tenebrous and aegis did it while the celestials are more than them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
a group of celestials would murder galactus. tenebrous and aegis did it while the celestials are more than them.

that wasn't full-power galactus, or galactus "at his absolute best" as the original poster said.

also, andy schmidt (editor of annihilation) stated that galactus was caught by surprise by tenebrous and aegis, who had prep time. we can also infer that galactus was somewhat weak as they caught him by surprise on a planet...suggesting that galactus was gonna consume it before the battle, only T&A (and thanos) ambushed him before he could.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
that wasn't full-power galactus, or galactus "at his absolute best" as the original poster said.

also, andy schmidt (editor of annihilation) stated that galactus was caught by surprise by tenebrous and aegis, who had prep time. we can also infer that galactus was somewhat weak as they caught him by surprise on a planet...suggesting that galactus was gonna consume it before the battle, only T&A (and thanos) ambushed him before he could.

Correct

Also as mentioned earlier I have given my reason to why I believe that somehow the Proimal Gods and the Celestials are connected and why Galactus would defeat them.

Originally posted by Utrigita
You make good points too.

Its true that it contained the Goblin Force what one need to remember is that it toke the combined might of the entire Celestial RACE to contain the Goblin Force as the scans clearly illustrate (couldn't find them but can remember it) "There entire Race devastated (celestial) they managed to ...."

A impressive feat but nothing makes me think Galactus couldn't have done the same.

In a sort of way, his energies rages with such a capacity that it even while he is severely weaken forms a star. Galactus has destroyed stars too, most of the origins of the Celestials are mainly done by Kubik and Kosmos I'm personally going with Eternity having created them.

Well strange isn't it that he feared it seeing as how in Tyrant vs Galactus fight Galactus completely drained couldn't disassemple the UN, but during his first encounter with the FF he was only hungry. Also Galactus has shown that he can easily escape the UN.

Originally posted by guy222
Again, good points

5th Celestial Host contained the Goblin Force. It had killed Galactus and the PF

Celestials have also embarassed the Odin/Destroyer

Its been said, Galactus' true form is a star. Celestials have the power to destroy stars. Its been said when Galactus dies he becomes a Celestial. I like the comparsion between the two

I will defer to u both. Has Galactus ever used the UN? In the original Galactus arc, he feared it. During the Abraxas storyline, it's apart of him

Celestials have a weapon known as 'The Weapon'

galactus used it against korvac i believe (or koon or someone with a k) to wipe him out from existence, and from ever having existed. korvac however escaped nullification by getting into a parallel dimension...can't remember exactly.

however, once you are hit with the un, you cannot return, because the UN is like darkseid's omega beams...they erase you from existence, to the effect that you had never existed at all. that's why i think UN>>>>>celestial "weapon"

Originally posted by guy222
5th Celestial Host contained the Goblin Force. It had killed Galactus and the PF

PF was killed ... Galactus was stomped but not killed.

Originally posted by guy222
Its been said, Galactus' true form is a star. Celestials have the power to destroy stars.

Galactus is no ordinary Star though.

On Panel Galactus was depicted as a Star with Infinite Energy.

Originally posted by guy222
Its been said when Galactus dies he becomes a Celestial.

??? (This can't be true)

Galactus "died" on panel and he became a Star that would radiate Energy outward forever.

Originally posted by guy222
Has Galactus ever used the UN? In the original Galactus arc, he feared it. During the Abraxas storyline, it's apart of him

Retcon.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
True the goblin force was of great power. However i think that series occurred in an alternate universe in the mutant X comics, with a different Galactus than the one we know.

Actually that was the original Galactus from 616.

Uatu was re-telling a true story that took place in the early Universe of the 616 Reality.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Its true that it contained the Goblin Force what one need to remember is that it toke the combined might of the entire Celestial RACE to contain the Goblin Force as the scans clearly illustrate (couldn't find them but can remember it) "There entire Race devastated (celestial) they managed to ...."

It only took the 5th Host to contain the Goblin Entity.

It appears the rest of the Race though got stomped.


Also,

the Goblin Force absorbed and added the Phoenix Force's power to it's own before hand.

Originally posted by Utrigita
A impressive feat but nothing makes me think Galactus couldn't have done the same.

Galactus got stomped by the Goblin Entity.

So Galactrus could never had done the same.

Originally posted by Utrigita
In a sort of way, his energies rages with such a capacity that it even while he is severely weaken forms a star. Galactus has destroyed stars too, most of the origins of the Celestials are mainly done by Kubik and Kosmos I'm personally going with Eternity having created them.

Eternity created the Celestials ... I agree.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Also Galactus has shown that he can easily escape the UN.

I'm not too sure.

Galactus escaped the UN once, but he had prep.

Without that prep, Galactus would've been erased.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually that was the original Galactus from 616.

Uatu was re-telling a true story that took place in the early Universe of the 616 Reality.

cool. i should read it soon

Galactus eats Hyperspace, as proven against Hyperstorm. So what's stopping him from gorging himself on the entire race?

Originally posted by Mr Master
PF was killed ... Galactus was stomped but not killed.



Galactus is no ordinary Star though.

On Panel Galactus was depicted as a Star with Infinite Energy.



??? (This can't be true)

Galactus "died" on panel and he became a Star that would radiate Energy outward forever.



Retcon.

U know, I love retcons

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Galactus eats Hyperspace, as proven against Hyperstorm. So what's stopping him from gorging himself on the entire race?

Celestials>Galactus

Galactus stalemated Hyperstorm. Hyperstorm hasn't returned

IMO from what I've seen I honestly think celestials>Galactus at full power. And I don't think Galactus at full power=Eternity. I don't care what Uatu says.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It only took the 5th Host to contain the Goblin Entity.

It appears the rest of the Race though got stomped.


Also,

the Goblin Force absorbed and added the Phoenix Force's power to it's own before hand.



Galactus got stomped by the Goblin Entity.

So Galactrus could never had done the same.



Eternity created the Celestials ... I agree.



I'm not too sure.

Galactus escaped the UN once, but he had prep.

Without that prep, Galactus would've been erased.

Which is a credit for Galactus that if it was needed to take him down then the Fifth Celestial host would be needed since all the others got stomped by the Force and we doesn't know how many Celestials the fifth host consisted of in that incident.

Also they managed to contain it correct??? that doesn't make them more powerful then the Goblin Force Galactus Has contained the Phoenix Force on one occasion but still he has lost a battle against it.

We didn't know If he got stomped, we Know he lost but there are a lot of facts about the fight that we doesn't know of.

Good, and the Celestials are a sort of Proimal Gods ore offspring of one of them.

Prep??? Morg fired the UN at Tyrant and Galactus how much prep could he possibly have??? Korvac have also escaped the exact same way by going into a parallel Dimension.

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO from what I've seen I honestly think celestials>Galactus at full power. And I don't think Galactus at full power=Eternity. I don't care what Uatu says.

You realise that Uatu when he is being used are normally speaking to the reader ore for the writer???

Originally posted by Kutulu
1) At his absolute best during the black Celestial arc he killed and consumed every Celestial in that universe.
2) On panel he beat every Celestial in the universe during black Celestial arc. In 616 he has not directly fought one yet.
...


What actual issues are these events in? I've seen them mentioned several times here but I've never seen them.

In FF #340 we saw:
1) While Galactus lay healing following his defeat by Thing, Thor, and Dr. Strange, he was altered by the Black Celestial. His appetite was made so great that he would eventually consume the universe.

2) According to the Celestial computer, the Black Celestial planned that with the entire universe consumed even the Celestials could not survive the void, but the Black Celestial would survive and found a new universe.

3) The BC's earth base is destroyed, and for some reason BC needed it for extra power. Reed lured the BC into an area of massive time dilation where his internal energy eventually ran out, and he was not able to escape the black hole.

4) When BC's drained form is destroyed in the black hole, Galactus sucked up the energy released.

But Galactus didn't kill any Celestials in this issue, and no other Celestials were even present in that arc as far as I saw. Were any of the quoted feats real or just taken from incorrect accounts?

Originally posted by basilisk
What actual issues are these events in? I've seen them mentioned several times here but I've never seen them.

In FF #340 we saw:
1) While Galactus lay healing following his defeat by Thing, Thor, and Dr. Strange, he was altered by the Black Celestial. His appetite was made so great that he would eventually consume the universe.

2) According to the Celestial computer, the Black Celestial planned that with the entire universe consumed even the Celestials could not survive the void, but the Black Celestial would survive and found a new universe.

3) The BC's earth base is destroyed, and for some reason BC needed it for extra power. Reed lured the BC into an area of massive time dilation where his internal energy eventually ran out, and he was not able to escape the black hole.

4) When BC's drained form is destroyed in the black hole, Galactus sucked up the energy released.

But Galactus didn't kill any Celestials in this issue, and no other Celestials were even present in that arc as far as I saw. Were any of the quoted feats real or just taken from incorrect accounts?

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6048/fantasticfourannual2650sa9.th.jpg

so basically the origins and function of The Celestials is pretty much unknown, they mirror "God/s" from reality, people have theories, people suggest ideas, some assert them as fact but, in the end there is just the unknown.

I like the idea that Galactus would become a Celestial in a future universe to come, but that doesn't square with the idea that The Silver Surfer was created by Galactus to one-day destroy him...

hmm, wonder if Hulk could become a Celestial... he's already got props from The Beyonder... got the infinity, needs the dynamism and cosmic awareness...

Originally posted by basilisk
What actual issues are these events in? I've seen them mentioned several times here but I've never seen them.

In FF #340 we saw:
1) While Galactus lay healing following his defeat by Thing, Thor, and Dr. Strange, he was altered by the Black Celestial. His appetite was made so great that he would eventually consume the universe.

2) According to the Celestial computer, the Black Celestial planned that with the entire universe consumed even the Celestials could not survive the void, but the Black Celestial would survive and found a new universe.

3) The BC's earth base is destroyed, and for some reason BC needed it for extra power. Reed lured the BC into an area of massive time dilation where his internal energy eventually ran out, and he was not able to escape the black hole.

4) When BC's drained form is destroyed in the black hole, Galactus sucked up the energy released.

But Galactus didn't kill any Celestials in this issue, and no other Celestials were even present in that arc as far as I saw. Were any of the quoted feats real or just taken from incorrect accounts?

No he didn't kill any Celestials in the Black Celestial Act, but certain incidents points towards them not being capable of stopping him even if they wanted to. Also the Black Celestial knew that the only one that would have the power even without his tampering to destroy the Celestial Race was Galactus hence he managed to manipulate a very weakend Galactus that was being kept alived by Reed Richards.

Originally posted by janus77
so basically the origins and function of The Celestials is pretty much unknown, they mirror "God/s" from reality, people have theories, people suggest ideas, some assert them as fact but, in the end there is just the unknown.

I like the idea that Galactus would become a Celestial in a future universe to come, but that doesn't square with the idea that The Silver Surfer was created by Galactus to one-day destroy him...

hmm, wonder if Hulk could become a Celestial... he's already got props from The Beyonder... got the infinity, needs the dynamism and cosmic awareness...

Thats just Kubik and Cosmos in the Galactus and Celestial respect thread both scans of why Eternity created the Celestials. To make a race that would one day suceed the abstracts when the universe collapses into itself, much like Galan merged with the previous 616 Eternity.

Originally posted by janus77
so basically the origins and function of The Celestials is pretty much unknown, they mirror "God/s" from reality, people have theories, people suggest ideas, some assert them as fact but, in the end there is just the unknown.

I like the idea that Galactus would become a Celestial in a future universe to come, but that doesn't square with the idea that The Silver Surfer was created by Galactus to one-day destroy him...

hmm, wonder if Hulk could become a Celestial... he's already got props from The Beyonder... got the infinity, needs the dynamism and cosmic awareness...

^That's the only instance where I know that Galactus is suggested to become a celestial in the next universe.

On the other hand, there's much more evidence that indicates Galactus has a higher purpose than just merely becoming a celestial in the next universe. The idea stretches all the way back to Jack Kirby/Stan Lee themselves, in the "Galactus Trilogy." It's been hinted many times that when the current marvel 616 universe will reach its end, when Eternity, Death, and all other abstracts will expire, Galactus alone will remain, and somehow be the catalyst for the big bang of the next universe. Galactus will finally die in the process, having lived the entire sum total existence of the 616 universe.

Even in "The Last Galactus Story," by John Byrne, Galactus cracks open his armor at the end of time, and all the energies he's ever taken from the planets are released and create the next big bang. Of course the story is non-canon but it is right in line with all the various statements/intimations that Galactus will play a central role in creating the next universe.

In fact there was a statement by someone...I want to say John Byrne but can't remember if it was him, that stated Galactus the most important character in Marvel comics because he is the only being to have pivotal roles in the past universe, the current universe, and the next universe.

cool but aren't there loads of universes already 'at present', within the Marvel Omniverse?

seems a minor role to be playing, doing the job of the Phoenix Force, big-banging a universe into existence.


the Celestials are pretty enigmatic characters, I would like to see a definite hierarchy though, to have Galactus, the abstracts etc etc all tied together properly.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
^That's the only instance where I know that Galactus is suggested to become a celestial in the next universe.

On the other hand, there's much more evidence that indicates Galactus has a higher purpose than just merely becoming a celestial in the next universe. The idea stretches all the way back to Jack Kirby/Stan Lee themselves, in the "Galactus Trilogy." It's been hinted many times that when the current marvel 616 universe will reach its end, when Eternity, Death, and all other abstracts will expire, Galactus alone will remain, and somehow be the catalyst for the big bang of the next universe. Galactus will finally die in the process, having lived the entire sum total existence of the 616 universe.

Even in "The Last Galactus Story," by John Byrne, Galactus cracks open his armor at the end of time, and all the energies he's ever taken from the planets are released and create the next big bang. Of course the story is non-canon but it is right in line with all the various statements/intimations that Galactus will play a central role in creating the next universe.

In fact there was a statement by someone...I want to say John Byrne but can't remember if it was him, that stated Galactus the most important character in Marvel comics because he is the only being to have pivotal roles in the past universe, the current universe, and the next universe.

Its also known, when the Celestials were created they would replace Galactus and the Watchers on the cosmic scale

Celestial Depending on which one will win-galactus has a chance against one depending on who it is
Two celestials will definetly beat galactus

Of course its only my opinion

It's also known that it's been a while since Lee/Kirby did anything with Galactus and odds are they won't be working on "potential ideas" they had for Galactus' outcome any time soon.

Originally posted by llagrok
It's also known that it's been a while since Lee/Kirby did anything with Galactus and odds are they won't be working on "potential ideas" they had for Galactus' outcome any time soon.

Irrelevant. As my post stated above the idea originated from the two of them, and with each subsequent writer reinforcing these ideas.

Originally posted by janus77
cool but aren't there loads of universes already 'at present', within the Marvel Omniverse?

seems a minor role to be playing, doing the job of the Phoenix Force, big-banging a universe into existence.


the Celestials are pretty enigmatic characters, I would like to see a definite hierarchy though, to have Galactus, the abstracts etc etc all tied together properly.

The marvel-616 universe is the focal point of the omniverse. Check mister master's cosmic thread for the exact citations of this. Galactus' role is not as miniscule as you make it out....Abraxas killed all the other Galacti in the alternate/parallel universes, but it was only 616-Galactus that had such importance.

The Phoenix Force doesn't reboot the universe. it serves as "the wellspring of life." i'm not going to get into the whole phoenix force/birthing of the universe debate...mr. master, galactic storm and others have already discussed that to exhaustion in many threads.

Originally posted by janus77
cool but aren't there loads of universes already 'at present', within the Marvel Omniverse?

There's the Prime Multiverse that Eternity embodies (an Infinite # of Universes)

There are other Multiverses, that are not embodied by a Sentient entity (also Infinite)

There are atleast Two Megaverses in Marvel that we know that are embodied by Entities,
(that being the Brothers who were also the architects and are the guardians of their Realities)
(Each Megaverse is a collection of Mutliverses (unknow how many)

There are and/or will be presumably more Megaverses.

The Omniverse is the sum of all this.

Originally posted by janus77
seems a minor role to be playing, doing the job of the Phoenix Force,
big-banging a universe into existence.

Galactus is far more important than the PF.
Without Galactus, there is no Reality in Marvel. It's simple as that.

Galactus balances the existence of Eternity/Infinity & Oblivion/Death
(if these Abstracts were to be erased ... all of Marvel will follow)
Because the 616 Universe is the core of these Abstracts,
and the 616 Universe is the foundation of the Omniverse.
So eveything that takes place in the 616 Universe that can affect that Reality as a whole,
has Omniversal significance according to Marvel. (Official & Canon)

Originally posted by janus77
the Celestials are pretty enigmatic characters, I would like to see a definite hierarchy though, to have Galactus, the abstracts etc etc all tied together properly.

I'll link you up in a bit.

ah, so if Galactus can 'eat' the 616 universe, he could in effect snuff out the multiverse and the Omniverse itself, because of the crucial - central - place of 616 in the overall scheme of things?

so, even though Galactus isn't all that powerful in himself, his role makes him the only truly essential being amongst the abstracts that we usually see superheroes interact with?

I think I was right in suggesting that comics and religion share much in common, this is like a form of eschatology and an 'origin of the gods', quite fascinating stuff.


still though, I remember reading hints and inferences that Silver Surfer is meant to kill/destroy Galactus at some point in the future. I'm not quite sure if it is 616 or just a peripheral universe, but nonetheless that is his 'destiny', and Galactus is aware of it - or indeed, Galactus assigned him the task in the first place.

Eternity embodies the multiverse within which 616 resides, there are others that do not have a form of sentient embodiment, but do have sentient life?

Originally posted by janus77
ah, so if Galactus can 'eat' the 616 universe, he could in effect snuff out the multiverse and the Omniverse itself, because of the crucial - central - place of 616 in the overall scheme of things?

Hmmm well that may be possible in some sense. The collapse of the 616-universe would eventually ripple outward to the rest. Possible, perhaps. Probable? No...Galactus has intervened on behalf of the 616-universe in almost every wide-scale cosmic story. By the nature of his character, we'd never see this universe-destroying Galactus, acting on his own whims.


so, even though Galactus isn't all that powerful in himself, his role makes him the only truly essential being amongst the abstracts that we usually see superheroes interact with?

Aside from the Living Tribunal himself, I would say so. Eternity and Death will expire at the end of the universe...they play absolutely no hand in the birth of the successor universe to marvel-616 as their roles are relegated exclusively to the current marvel reality. That's why the quote I mentioned above...and I will try to find out who exactly said it....mentions Galactus as the most important because he has ties to three universes, past, present, and future. None of the abstracts have this role. A case can be made for the phoenix force but again i'll not get into that debate.

I think I was right in suggesting that comics and religion share much in common, this is like a form of eschatology and an 'origin of the gods', quite fascinating stuff.

Indeed, that's true esp for the cosmic abstracts...there's a ton of mythology/mythos that you can read into. You have a cosmic "trinity," (Eternity/Galactus/Death) a la the New Testament of the Bible...you have scribes/scholars/historians (the watchers) chronicaling the exploits of these cosmic "gods." You have numerous wars amongst these divine figures, you have enigmatic and unexplainable characters (celestials), so on and so on.

Originally posted by janus77
ah, so if Galactus can 'eat' the 616 universe, he could in effect snuff out the multiverse and the Omniverse itself, because of the crucial - central - place of 616 in the overall scheme of things?

Correct, but it must be nullified.

The Marvel Universe = the 616 Reality/Omniverse according to Marvel.com

If you make the 616 Universe null & void,
you basically make eveything null & void in the Omniverse,
because everything blossomed from the 616 Reality.

I'm not sure if absorption would result in the same action,
although it would probably lead to a collpase in the "domino effect" sense.


This is why it's so important to have feats based in the 616 Reality,
it makes the feat more significant than a universal scale influence.

Originally posted by janus77
so, even though Galactus isn't all that powerful in himself, his role makes him the only truly essential being amongst the abstracts that we usually see superheroes interact with?

They're all important,
but certainly there are some that are truly crucial to the existence of the Omniverse.

Eternity/Infinity
Galactus
Oblivion/Death
Lord Chaos/Master Order
In-betweener
Epoch

These are the most essential Entities necessary for a Universe to function.
(none can exist without the other)

Originally posted by janus77
I think I was right in suggesting that comics and religion share much in common, this is like a form of eschatology and an 'origin of the gods', quite fascinating stuff.

I agree.

Originally posted by janus77
still though, I remember reading hints and inferences that Silver Surfer is meant to kill/destroy Galactus at some point in the future. I'm not quite sure if it is 616 or just a peripheral universe, but nonetheless that is his 'destiny', and Galactus is aware of it - or indeed, Galactus assigned him the task in the first place.

I heard that once,
it's never been made conclusive by an official bio or on panel account.

Galactus' future has been fortold,
and it does not involve him dying at the hands of the SS.

Originally posted by janus77
Eternity embodies the multiverse within which 616 resides, there are others that do not have a form of sentient embodiment, but do have sentient life?

Yes.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook)

The Concepts are still there, but without Consciousness.

Galactus's science appears to be more advanced than anyone's in the universe. I don't know this for a fact but it seems so.
I think he could take them all.

There's over 10 billion Celestials. Galactus isn't beating the entire race

Same with the Watchers

Just too many

Galactus vs Arishem
Galactus vs Exitar
Galactus vs Tiamut
Galactus vs Scathan

All good fights

Fair enough to say that Galactus could have defeated them in the beggining of the Universe while they were being made. He is pretty much the Superior power in the Universe besides the major entites.
All Galactus really has to do is look at someone and notice them and they can be destroyed.

Galactus is quite powerful. We all agree. Marvel doesn't write him to his full capacity. Some call him the ultimate jobber

Other beings like the Celestials can give Big G a battle

Galactus vs 1 Celestial is a battle, I wish Marvel would make. Or pair em up against two other all powerful beings ala Tenebrous/Aegis

When u have a race which is over 10 billion, chances aren't good for Galactus

Galactus is powerful enough to defeat a single Celestial, if was attacked by the Celestials I can see Earth X prt 2, Galactus can take out a lot of Celestials out before going down.


Galactus would be beat Tiamut, people read too much into Galactus "now knows fear", when Tiamut awoke, in the context it could mean anything because we didnt know Tiamut true intentions at that time!

Based on powers of Galactus and what he can do, it's very possible Galactus could take on any single Celetstials or a host and defeat them if he had too.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Galactus is powerful enough to defeat a single Celestial, if was attacked by the Celestials I can see Earth X prt 2, Galactus can take out a lot of Celestials out before going down.


Galactus would be beat Tiamut, people read too much into Galactus "now knows fear", when Tiamut awoke, in the context it could mean anything because we didnt know Tiamut true intentions at that time!

Based on powers of Galactus and what he can do, it's very possible Galactus could take on any single Celetstials or a host and defeat them if he had too.

Excellent post as well.. I think the pro Galactus lobby are pwning the pro Celestial lobby!