grimmjow vs WWH

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lando005
ok from what ive noticed about the miss match between hulk and sesshomaru and gimmjow and captain marvel i figured this should be a better match up

hulk can see and effect gimmjow hulk has the same gear he had at the start of wwh an armguard and a sword not sure what metal the sword is made of but let's say its as sturdy as grimmjow's

llagrok
His sword isn't NEARLY as sturdy as Grimmjow's zanpakutou.

I'd say that Grimmjow is fully capable of harming Hulk if he goes all out.

lando005
Originally posted by llagrok
His sword isn't NEARLY as sturdy as Grimmjow's zanpakutou.

I'd say that Grimmjow is fully capable of harming Hulk if he goes all out. i didnt know how strong his sword was so for the purpose of the fight i was saying it was. Do you know how strong the sword is?

llagrok
Originally posted by lando005
i didnt know how strong his sword was so for the purpose of the fight i was saying it was. Do you know how strong the sword is?

I don't think it's particularly strong, nothing more than plain iron. It probably comes off as incredibly durable because Hulk is so strong smile

lando005
Originally posted by llagrok
I don't think it's particularly strong, nothing more than plain iron. It probably comes off as incredibly durable because Hulk is so strong smile eh we'll give it some durability don't want it breaking on the first swing now do we? aside from that should be an interesting fight

lando005
neither one of them would ever give up grand grey cero might have a shot at putting him down but that's a 50/50 toss up

lando005
bump

lando005
this shows on a google search but not in the forum search

lando005
per someone's request.... bump

Soljer
Geeks, geeks, all of you!

Err...both of you.

stick out tongue.

I have no idea who wins...thusly...

HULK SMASH!

lando005
Originally posted by Soljer
Geeks, geeks, all of you!

Err...both of you.

stick out tongue.

I have no idea who wins...thusly...

HULK SMASH! just remember we outnumber you 2:1 hehe

and hulk slash

vlaaad12345
The bleach wank on this site is amazing,wwh tears gj in half,there is no attack gj has that would come anywhere close to putting hulk down.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
The bleach wank on this site is amazing,wwh tears gj in half,there is no attack gj has that would come anywhere close to putting hulk down. you see 2 threads and you think there's a "wank"? sounds a bit hateful and bias to me

anyways this match is a tossup hulk's stronger and more durible and grimmjow has way more attacks that he can use that could beat hulk

superkronick92
Grimmjow gets his ass kicked at first, then goes into its released form and owns Hulk for a little while, but Hulk eventually wins because of his Healing factor and stamina

lando005
Originally posted by superkronick92
Grimmjow gets his ass kicked at first, then goes into its released form and owns Hulk for a little while, but Hulk eventually wins because of his Healing factor and stamina i think i huge factor is grimmjow's speed it would be hard for hulk to even catch him

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
i think i huge factor is grimmjow's speed it would be hard for hulk to even catch him
Hulk has caught the silver surfer before he will catch gj eventually and when he does its over,gj litterally has not a single attack that will put hulk close to going down even when in his released state,and im calling it wank because of the people you put them against are way out of their league bleach is not that strong.

lando005
Originally posted by superkronick92
Grimmjow gets his ass kicked at first, then goes into its released form and owns Hulk for a little while, but Hulk eventually wins because of his Healing factor and stamina i think i huge factor is grimmjow's speed it would be hard for hulk to even catch him

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Hulk has caught the silver surfer before he will catch gj eventually and when he does its over,gj litterally has not a single attack that will put hulk close to going down even when in his released state,and im calling it wank because of the people you put them against are way out of their league bleach is not that strong. i doubt hulk would catch him and he has plenty attack that would hurt the hulk i dont think any one attack could ko hulk but he can pull off a few back to back to ko him hell a normal creo from him would be enough to inflict major damage

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
i doubt hulk would catch him and he has plenty attack that would hurt the hulk i dont think any one attack could ko hulk but he can pull off a few back to back to ko him hell a normal creo from him would be enough to inflict major damage
Hulk walking through one of cyclops serious beams without hardly any damage at all says otherwise,ceros arent very powerful they are large flashly explosions just like preety much every other attack in bleach that accomplish a whole lot of nothing.

MightyEInherjar
Umm...thunderclap ftw?

Also, I seriously doubt Hulk would bother making a sword for himself if it was just plain iron or steel. Hell, his grip alone would more than likely snap the tang if it was a common earth metal.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Hulk walking through one of cyclops serious beams without hardly any damage at all says otherwise,ceros arent very powerful they are large flashly explosions just like preety much every other attack in bleach that accomplish a whole lot of nothing. your being bias again cero is no cheap trick and is far more than a flashy explosion it's the most dangerous common hollow move and he can also preform the grand grey creo an attack which was strong enough to distort the entire spacial area in which it was fired or is that just flashy show to? bleach characters are not as weak as you want to make them sound

lando005
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Umm...thunderclap ftw?

Also, I seriously doubt Hulk would bother making a sword for himself if it was just plain iron or steel. Hell, his grip alone would more than likely snap the tang if it was a common earth metal. for this match hulk's using a sturdier sword one that wont break after a few swings

Soljer
SMASH! SMASH! SMASH! SMASH!

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
your being bias again cero is no cheap trick and is far more than a flashy explosion it's the most dangerous common hollow move and he can also preform the grand grey creo an attack which was strong enough to distort the entire spacial area in which it was fired or is that just flashy show to? bleach characters are not as weak as you want to make them sound
Most of the times cero is used theres a big explosion then the dust settles...and it didnt do much at all,let me know when ceros start to damage things several times harder then steel and then hulk might start to feel it.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Most of the times cero is used theres a big explosion then the dust settles...and it didnt do much at all,let me know when ceros start to damage things several times harder then steel and then hulk might start to feel it. funny the only time i remember things still standing after creo is when that person was stronger than the creo attack you havent seen much destruction out of it because it's not being aimed randomly it's being targeted at a person not a general area and said person was strong enough to deflect it or block it but creo does massive damage to them in turn. and like i said grand grey creo was powerful enough to leave space distorted for quite a while after it was fired

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
funny the only time i remember things still standing after creo is when that person was stronger than the creo attack you havent seen much destruction out of it because it's not being aimed randomly it's being targeted at a person not a general area and said person was strong enough to deflect it or block it but creo does massive damage to them in turn. and like i said grand grey creo was powerful enough to leave space distorted for quite a while after it was fired
Distorting space in a spirit dimension isnt a quantifiable strength feat,no cero has shown the strength to knock hulk out or do anything that couldnt be regenerated in seconds flat.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Distorting space in a spirit dimension isnt a quantifiable strength feat,no cero has shown the strength to knock hulk out or do anything that couldnt be regenerated in seconds flat. you cant apply strength feats to energy blasts, and it would take a very powerful attack to distort space like that would creo ko hulk? no but it would do some real heavy damage to him if you want a strength feat a single spike released from grimmjow was enough to level a skyscapper sized pillar

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
you cant apply strength feats to energy blasts, and it would take a very powerful attack to distort space like that would creo ko hulk? no but it would do some real heavy damage to him if you want a strength feat a single spike released from grimmjow was enough to level a skyscapper sized pillar
And?scyscraper leveling power wont faze wwh in the least the dude jumped in lava and held tectonic plates together,took a nuclear blast point blank and was fine,im fully aware of what gj is capable of and its nowhere near enough to do anything of real consequence to the hulk.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
And?scyscraper leveling power wont faze wwh in the least the dude jumped in lava and held tectonic plates together,took a nuclear blast point blank and was fine,im fully aware of what gj is capable of and its nowhere near enough to do anything of real consequence to the hulk. really because you have been playing everything off as if bleach was one big light show as for the planet hulk arc i know about all of his feats i have the hardback edition a also know that wwh has been busted up by damn near everybody from thing to rockslide, so wwh's durability feats are not that impressive right now i didnt say one shot form gimmjow woulk ko hulk but he has more than enough power to seriously damage him and keep it up untill he passes out

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
really because you have been playing everything off as if bleach was one big light show as for the planet hulk arc i know about all of his feats i have the hardback edition a also know that wwh has been busted up by damn near everybody from thing to rockslide, so wwh's durability feats are not that impressive right now i didnt say one shot form gimmjow woulk ko hulk but he has more than enough power to seriously damage him and keep it up untill he passes out No he doesnt,no bleach character is even close to the physical strength thing could put out,lava and nukes to the face=gj isnt doing much at all to hulk.

llagrok
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Umm...thunderclap ftw?

Also, I seriously doubt Hulk would bother making a sword for himself if it was just plain iron or steel. Hell, his grip alone would more than likely snap the tang if it was a common earth metal.

lal

Thunderclap would never KO Grimmjaw.

janus77
Originally posted by lando005
really because you have been playing everything off as if bleach was one big light show as for the planet hulk arc i know about all of his feats i have the hardback edition a also know that wwh has been busted up by damn near everybody from thing to rockslide, so wwh's durability feats are not that impressive right now i didnt say one shot form gimmjow woulk ko hulk but he has more than enough power to seriously damage him and keep it up untill he passes out
you can't be serious?
The Hulk's durability is phenomenal. and it increases just like his strength and regen.

Endless Mike
This is getting ridiculous. Bleach characters are low mid - tier at best.

Grimmjaw would be lucky if he could beat Ms. Marvel

guy222
Originally posted by lando005
ok from what ive noticed about the miss match between hulk and sesshomaru and gimmjow and captain marvel i figured this should be a better match up

hulk can see and effect gimmjow hulk has the same gear he had at the start of wwh an armguard and a sword not sure what metal the sword is made of but let's say its as sturdy as grimmjow's

wwh

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
No he doesnt,no bleach character is even close to the physical strength thing could put out,lava and nukes to the face=gj isnt doing much at all to hulk. yes he does he doesn't have to match him in pure strength but he does have enough strength to harm him he has plenty of attacks that can cause damage to him and has the speed needed to stay out of reach and that's before his release, after release i dont think hulk would even tag him unless he tries to stab his had through hulk's chest or something

lando005
Originally posted by janus77
you can't be serious?
The Hulk's durability is phenomenal. and it increases just like his strength and regen. i'm just stating what has been shown on panel so far every battle wwh has been in he's been bloodied up even by people who shouldnt be able to by now

Endless Mike
Hulk has tagged people like Quicksilver, Northstar, Silver Surfer, Nova, etc. all the time. He's not slow. Many of the people WWH has already defeated could solo the Bleachverse

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Hulk has tagged people like Quicksilver, Northstar, Silver Surfer, Nova, etc. all the time. He's not slow. Many of the people WWH has already defeated could solo the Bleachverse hulk's not slow yea but he cant keep up with super speeders for long unless you think hulk can continuosly tag current northstar (which he cant) in a straight up fight, gimmjow has been seen dodging attacks from ichigo up to about 8 inches away from his face, clearly ichigo is much faster than hulk combat wise i dont think gj will have a problem dodging hulk you play the bleach vers off as if they are all streetlevelers which they are not

Endless Mike
I said mid - tier. Hulk only needs to tag him once.

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I said mid - tier. Hulk only needs to tag him once. that one time would have to be a straight up clean hit which more than likely wont happen with his speed hulk may tag him once or twice but it would not be a full hit

i think some of them are higher than mid tier you compared gj to ms marvel put he's been seen doing things casually that she would have to put a lot of effort into doing

Endless Mike
Doubtful. What's his best feat, beating up Ichigo? Everyone does that.

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Doubtful. What's his best feat, beating up Ichigo? Everyone does that. not speaking of that and only a hand full of people have beaten him at all

i'm talkin about his reaction time and the strength of some of his attacks

Endless Mike
Yes, compared to smashing an asteroid twice the size of earth, holding a planet together, or thunderclapping with the strength of a nuclear arsenal. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Kutulu

llagrok
All Hollow have the ability to do bala, cero and their own version of flash step. Something that the Hulk could never counter. As far as Tousen goes, you must either be retarded or simply ignoring his growth in power. It's obvious that he's far above captain level, seeing as Grimmjaw could tear through any captain, while Tousen is obviously faster and stronger than him.

Nor do you seem to be capable of telling cutting damage from blunt damage apart either. While a punch from the thing wouldn't do much damage to namor, Wolverine cutting his arm off certainly would. While Grimmjaw doesn't posess the ability to regrow lost limbs, it was obvious that he would've been capable of reattaching it. Hence why Tousen had to incinerate it.

It's also common knowledge that most Espada and Shinigami posess superhuman recuperative abilities.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Doubtful. What's his best feat, beating up Ichigo? Everyone does that.

He killed and devoured several thousand Ajankuuru rank hollows?

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by llagrok
All Hollow have the ability to do bala, cero and their own version of flash step. Something that the Hulk could never counter. As far as Tousen goes, you must either be retarded or simply ignoring his growth in power. It's obvious that he's far above captain level, seeing as Grimmjaw could tear through any captain, while Tousen is obviously faster and stronger than him.

Nor do you seem to be capable of telling cutting damage from blunt damage apart either. While a punch from the thing wouldn't do much damage to namor, Wolverine cutting his arm off certainly would. While Grimmjaw doesn't posess the ability to regrow lost limbs, it was obvious that he would've been capable of reattaching it. Hence why Tousen had to incinerate it.

It's also common knowledge that most Espada and Shinigami posess superhuman recuperative abilities.



He killed and devoured several thousand Ajankuuru rank hollows?
And fodder hollows matter why?no bleach character is beating wwh its that simple.

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes, compared to smashing an asteroid twice the size of earth, holding a planet together, or thunderclapping with the strength of a nuclear arsenal. roll eyes (sarcastic) we were just talking about ms marvel a second ago and now you want to go back to hulk fine

all the strength in the world means nothing if you cant hit anything with it
hit and run tactics ftw

llagrok
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
And fodder hollows matter why?no bleach character is beating wwh its that simple.

Right...

lando005

Endless Mike
If he took Torch's nova flame, a cero will do nothing to him.

Hulk consistently tags people faster than anyone in Bleach could ever hope to be.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=monstertoofastfornova.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=northstartagsmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=northstarvsmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster1.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster2.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster3.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed1.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed2.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed3.jpg

^All that needs to be said about the Hulk's speed

Akuki
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
And fodder hollows matter why?no bleach character is beating wwh its that simple.

Aizen would completely curbstomp WWH. I forgot to mention this in the Aizen vs. supes thread, but Aizen does have access to tech that makes the user intangible and imperceptible even to those who can see Shinigami. Plus keep in mind all of the Arrancar have tough enhanced external skin that would make Luke Cage's look weak

llagrok
Originally posted by Endless Mike
If he took Torch's nova flame, a cero will do nothing to him.

Hulk consistently tags people faster than anyone in Bleach could ever hope to be.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=monstertoofastfornova.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=northstartagsmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=northstarvsmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster1.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster2.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster3.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed1.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed2.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed3.jpg

^All that needs to be said about the Hulk's speed

You have no ****ing idea how fast Bleach characters are.

Nor do you seem to possess half a brain, so you can join your buddy Quanchi on my ignore list.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by Akuki
Aizen would completely curbstomp WWH. I forgot to mention this in the Aizen vs. supes thread, but Aizen does have access to tech that makes the user intangible and imperceptible even to those who can see Shinigami. Plus keep in mind all of the Arrancar have tough enhanced external skin that would make Luke Cage's look weak
Whats that I smell?bullshit thats right,iv read the manga more times then you have buddy and aizen has nothing like that,wwh punches aizen and aizen dies,and the one who doesnt posses half a brain is you llagrok,no bleach character is faster then north star or silver surfer and hulk tages people like that all the ****ing time,go beat off to more bleach.

Soljer
Originally posted by llagrok
You have no ****ing idea how fast Bleach characters are.

Nor do you seem to possess half a brain, so you can join your buddy Quanchi on my ignore list.

Was that really necessary? Wouldn't it be a lot easier and a lot kinder to have posted "Well, that's nice, but these Bleach characters are a lot faster than the people you showed because...."

Then, you'd look like the better debater, and wouldn't have had to simply insult another poster and seem like you were trying to avoid the point entirely.

Akuki
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Whats that I smell?bullshit thats right,iv read the manga more times then you have buddy and aizen has nothing like that,wwh punches aizen and aizen dies,and the one who doesnt posses half a brain is you llagrok,no bleach character is faster then north star or silver surfer and hulk tages people like that all the ****ing time,go beat off to more bleach.

Ahem:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/M7Bleach-ch237-02.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/M7Bleach-ch237-12.jpg

Quote: You're existence will only be recognized by us arrancar.
Also she is clearly walking through solid objects.

Any to be honest, any instance of hulk being able to tag full speed SS is complete and total PIS, by the way does anyone know what Northstar's speed is considered to be?

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
If he took Torch's nova flame, a cero will do nothing to him.

Hulk consistently tags people faster than anyone in Bleach could ever hope to be.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=monstertoofastfornova.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=northstartagsmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=northstarvsmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster1.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster2.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=novanorthstarvsfastmonster3.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed1.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed2.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view&current=hulkspeed3.jpg

^All that needs to be said about the Hulk's speed reall impressive hulk beating up on a target that's standing still

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by Akuki
Ahem:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/M7Bleach-ch237-02.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/M7Bleach-ch237-12.jpg

Quote: You're existence will only be recognized by us arrancar.
Also she is clearly walking through solid objects.
And has it ever been used in combat?what would it do?not much,no arrancar has shown the raw power needed to put wwh down,you could be invisible all day and throw ceros all day and its not going to put the hulk down,the only way gj can win this is if he bfr's hulk with the tiny negacion cube and even then we dont know if it will work on non arrancar.

lando005
hulk is not a super speeder he cant tag people like quick silver and northstar, once maybe twice but that's about it if that was the case hulk would be speed blitzing people and that aint gonna happen especially when people like spider-man much much slower than quicksilver can land plenty of blows on hulk without him getting touched in return hell hulk's barely caught spider-man and you cant even say he does it consecutively

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
hulk is not a super speeder he cant tag people like quick silver and northstar, once maybe twice but that's about it if that was the case hulk would be speed blitzing people and that aint gonna happen especially when people like spider-man much much slower than quicksilver can land plenty of blows on hulk without him getting touched in return hell hulk's barely caught spider-man and you cant even say he does it consecutively
spiderman has precog.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
spiderman has precog. precog doesn't always help he still has to be fast enough to avoid

mike is saying that hulk's combat speed is the same as northstar ans shows him beating up a robot that's standing still

Akuki
Quicksilver only goes about 750 to 1000 mph or around mach 1. Vaizard Ichigo is hitting speeds pretty close to Mach 35 or so.

Endless Mike
And those numbers are based on what?

Hint: Your rectum is not a canon source

Akuki
Originally posted by Endless Mike
And those numbers are based on what?

Hint: Your rectum is not a canon source
Read the respect thread in my sig for the math.

Endless Mike
I've seen it, it's full of biased assumptions. First of all you just pick distances out of thin air. "This is 15 meters" without doing any scaling whatsoever. Then you assume that the 20% reiatsu limiter equals a linear 5x speed increase, when there is nothing to support this.

Soljer
Originally posted by Endless Mike
And those numbers are based on what?

Hint: Your rectum is not a canon source

Hey, you need not be rude about it either, Mike...

No reason for that.

And, to Akuki, math is not always an acceptable source. Certain maths put the Flash going at trillions of times the speed of light, when, in reality, he was going just near lightspeed.

Math is inadmissible quite often.

Akuki
Originally posted by Soljer
Hey, you need not be rude about it either, Mike...

No reason for that.

And, to Akuki, math is not always an acceptable source. Certain maths put the Flash going at trillions of times the speed of light, when, in reality, he was going just near lightspeed.

Math is inadmissible quite often.
I know that, it's just that when it comes down to it, it's nearly impossible to calculate bleach speed without using math, since there really aren't any context clues from the text, unlike many comics. However what we do know is that in base form Ichigo was a arrow/timer when his spirit energy was at it's lowest setting and as that speed was quickly overwhelmed by renji he accelerated greatly to the extent that he was able to overwhelm Renji , and even then he was eaily taken out by a greatly decellerated Byakuya so that he couldn't even see the two attacks. We have on panel proof that the speed of shinigami is in fact directly affected by the seal, and we know that even after Ichigo achieved Shunpo in soul society and was able to match Byakuya's speed, but was unable to escape from Kyouka suigetsu, threreby showing that that is at least slightly faster than Byakuya. We also know that in bankai form Ichigo is well over twice the speed of kyouka suigetsu, and his speed appears to increase again in Vaizard form. So I think we can legitimately say that Ichigo's speed is well into the double digits of mach speed.

Soljer
Okay, there were way too many non english words in that paragraph, I really couldn't dedicate myself to hacking through it, my apologies.

All I'm saying is that math is fairly inadmissible, or, at least, should be. Merely due to the fact that writers don't sit down and figure out the capabilities of their characters the way we do.

They just have them do cool shit.

If you can show me something that convinces me of even mach ten speed, we'll have something to go off of.

Till then? All you have is your own suppositions with the math. erm.

Akuki
Originally posted by Soljer
Okay, there were way too many non english words in that paragraph, I really couldn't dedicate myself to hacking through it, my apologies.

All I'm saying is that math is fairly inadmissible, or, at least, should be. Merely due to the fact that writers don't sit down and figure out the capabilities of their characters the way we do.

They just have them do cool shit.

If you can show me something that convinces me of even mach ten speed, we'll have something to go off of.

Till then? All you have is your own suppositions with the math. erm.
The problem with that is that with bleach, as with other manga, speeds of all of the participants speeds up at relatively the same pace, so for example ichigo's speed feat against Byakuya in bankai form where he is able to instantaneously put his sword against Byakuya's throat before he can react is a very impressive feat(and that was stated to be when he wasn't at his full bankai speed). However it's a heck of a lot more impressive if you factor in the fact that Byakuya was able to stab someone with at least arrowtiming if not bullet timing abilities twice while at a very restricted speed without them being able to even see him moving. So the main reason I'm putting up all these backgound info is because if you don't have that info the feats are far less impressive than they actually are

Kutulu
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/celestialtechulk.png
'nuff said.

Kutulu
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkholdsplanettogether.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkholdsplanettogether1.jpg

Full powered Cyclops blast:
http://img184.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=83305_World_War_Hulk_-_X-Men_1002_006_122_420lo.jpg

Face it, Grimmjow just doesn't have the capabilities to take Hulk down permanently. He just doesn't. Even if he could destroy a planet it still wouldn't be enough.

Akuki
Ok, here's my attampt to prove to people that bleach speeds are around where I've been claiming they are.

Ichigo's capabilities as a base level shingami(no shikai) with his sword in the unreleased form.

Ichigo proves that he is a arrow-timer by easily blocking one of Ishida's arrows even though it was aimed at his back.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Bleach-06-02-10.png
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Bleach-06-02-11.png

Now that is the level of speed he has when he initially begins fighting Renji in the human world and Renji easily beats him, and shows that he also has highly enhanced reflexes.
Renji showing he has superhuman reflexes by dodging Ishida's attack without any forewarning.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Bleach-06-09-18.jpg
Renji overpowering and showing superior speed to Ichigo.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach054-08.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach054-09.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach054-10.jpg

Ichigo releases his spirit energy and is able to overwhelm Renji in terms of speed and move faster than he can react to (Showing that even in his base form he's able to show speed levels that overwhelm arrowtimers)
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-11.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-12.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-13.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-14.jpg
More to come.

Soljer
I hate to break it to you, but 'arrowtiming' is something that's below even peak humans. Batman, Captain America, Daredevil, you name it - they all have feats of snatching arrows out of the air - with EASE.

They also all have feats that would put them on bullet time levels. Much less arrow timing.

Obviously, some of the later feats are a little more impressive, but speedblitzing an 'arrowtimer' is not. That's Spiderman level, definitely NOT Quicksilver level. And certainly not mach 35.

Akuki
Originally posted by Soljer
I hate to break it to you, but 'arrowtiming' is something that's below even peak humans. Batman, Captain America, Daredevil, you name it - they all have feats of snatching arrows out of the air - with EASE.

They also all have feats that would put them on bullet time levels. Much less arrow timing.

Obviously, some of the later feats are a little more impressive, but speedblitzing an 'arrowtimer' is not. That's Spiderman level, definitely NOT Quicksilver level. And certainly not mach 35.
Umm, just to let you know, that's the very very beginning level of bleach before he recieves any upgrades.

Skeets
LOL @ Mach 35...

Kutulu
You call those feats?

Hulk was able to keep up with someone capable of this (destroying a world with a few punches):
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5560514

Who can survive flying through a star one hundred million miles wide.
http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/1434/gladiatornuclearinferno2uc.jpg

Moving at near light velocity to stop a particle beam:
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7296/hyperspeed11mv.jpg

Drags Supreme into space before he can even react:
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/4124/gladiatorvssupreme126fv.jpg

Hulk can easily survive nukes and planetary shattering blows. His healing is such that any damage done is healed in mere seconds.

This is what would happen to Grimmjow:
http://img144.exs.cx/img144/2600/quicksilver9xj.jpg

Kutulu
Even Wonderman is impressed with his speed, keep in mind he's even stronger, more durable and faster healing now than he ever was:
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1743/avengersih316e2tg.jpg

lando005
he doesn't have to kill him he just has to put him down

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
he doesn't have to kill him he just has to put him down
Which he cant,hulk is mildly annoyed by nuclear blasts and jumps in lava with no real damage,gj is nowhere near strong enough to overwhelm hulks healing factor or durability,like I said earlier when cero starts destroying several feet of things a couple dozen times stronger then steel then we might start talking about it taking the hulk down.

Akuki
Here's a cool example of Ichigo's bankai speed. Wait till around the 6th minute of the video and it'll be around there. Note that this isn't his fastest level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp6Mr-B-HxM

Ichigo is able to move and put his sword at byakuya's throat before byakuya can react and he even can track him with his eyes at some times in the fight.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Aizen/162-17.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Aizen/162-18.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Aizen/163-01.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Aizen/163-02.jpg
Senbonzakura is able to go at least as fast as Byakuya which can be seen from how ichigo is unable to esacape from it when in shikai, even though he can easily keep up with Byakuya in hand to hand combat.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-14.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-15.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-16.jpg
In bankai Ichigo is easily dodging it to the extent that Byakuya is forced to take an action which DOUBLES the speed of Senbonzakura, and Ichigo still continues to easily dodge and block it, and he speed is so great that Byakuya is seeing afterimages.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-08.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-09.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-10.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-12.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-13.jpg
He literally bats away millions of blades in this scan
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-14.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-15.jpg

Skeets
How is any of that Mach 35?

Soljer
Afterimages isn't anywhere near mach 35, either.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Which he cant,hulk is mildly annoyed by nuclear blasts and jumps in lava with no real damage,gj is nowhere near strong enough to overwhelm hulks healing factor or durability,like I said earlier when cero starts destroying several feet of things a couple dozen times stronger then steel then we might start talking about it taking the hulk down. hulk's also been busted up by the likes of thing his feats in planet hulk are almost in direct contradiction to wwh gimmjow can deliver enough damage with multiple attacks the only question now is how long can he keep it up

Akuki
Originally posted by Skeets
How is any of that Mach 35?
Read the respect thread to see how i got that figure. The main problem with Bleach is that all of the speed feats are relative. Ichigo's dancing around Byakuya is by itself a very respectable feat, but if you factor in the speeds shown by Byakuya,(he was only going at a fraction of his real speed when he double stabbed ichigo initially, it's a heck of a lot more impressive. It's all about the context.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
hulk's also been busted up by the likes of thing his feats in planet hulk are almost in direct contradiction to wwh gimmjow can deliver enough damage with multiple attacks the only question now is how long can he keep it up
Again,thing hits harder then gj does,what multiple attacks is he going to use,hulk wont feel gjs physical attacks and cero is not going to do any more then cyclops blast did,gj cant keep up any amount of damage that will come close to putting hulk out.

Skeets
Lets say GrimmJow does go around Mach 35(lol Lies!)
He still doesn't have the arsenal to actually hurt Hulk.
That Cero blast isn't enough....
Eventually Hulk would land a hit,and 1 is all that it's gonna take...

Akuki
Originally posted by Skeets
Lets say GrimmJow does go around Mach 35(lol Lies!)
He still doesn't have the arsenal to actually hurt Hulk.
That Cero blast isn't enough....
Eventually Hulk would land a hit,and 1 is all that it's gonna take...
If you notice, I've never stated that Grimmjow would win, I would think it would require someone like Aizen to really smack him down properly. My main point here was just to try and show how fast the bleach characters are.

Skeets
Originally posted by Akuki
If you notice, I've never stated that Grimmjow would win, I would think it would require someone like Aizen to really smack him down properly. My main point here was just to try and show how fast the bleach characters are.
That wasn't a response to you,more to the thread in general.

The manga only vaguely shows how fast the characters go,and Mach 35 is way out there...
That's DBZ Speed...

Akuki
Originally posted by Skeets
That wasn't a response to you,more to the thread in general.

The manga only vaguely shows how fast the characters go,and Mach 35 is way out there...
That's DBZ Speed...
I'm pretty sure DBZ speed is way way above that at least towards the end. The best way to really think about Bleach is as one of the earlier stages of DBZ, and still evolving towards higher power levels.

Kutulu
Originally posted by Akuki
If you notice, I've never stated that Grimmjow would win, I would think it would require someone like Aizen to really smack him down properly. My main point here was just to try and show how fast the bleach characters are.

My point was that Hulk was able to tag someone who can go close to light speed in an atmosphere, even mach 35 is nowhere close to Gladiator's speed level.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Again,thing hits harder then gj does,what multiple attacks is he going to use,hulk wont feel gjs physical attacks and cero is not going to do any more then cyclops blast did,gj cant keep up any amount of damage that will come close to putting hulk out. we're not sure if thing hits harder or not from the feats seen so far we can say gj can hit pretty hard not as strong as hulk but he's got some power in his blows

also creo doesn't have a fixed power out the power varies by the person who's using it, let's say for your argument's sake that a creo from grimmjow is as strong as a full powered blast from scott, that's still not even his strongest attack he's got several more much much stronger than that ans wwh did have a little bit of trouble with scott's blast in the begining it's not like he walked through it like it was nothing grimmjow is stronger than you give credit

Soljer
As far as fighting speed, mach 35 may be even beyond DBZ speed - there is very little to quantify it.

And if you're comparing EARLY Dragonball z, then you're talking more like mach 1.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
we're not sure if thing hits harder or not from the feats seen so far we can say gj can hit pretty hard not as strong as hulk but he's got some power in his blows

also creo doesn't have a fixed power out the power varies by the person who's using it, let's say for your argument's sake that a creo from grimmjow is as strong as a full powered blast from scott, that's still not even his strongest attack he's got several more much much stronger than that ans wwh did have a little bit of trouble with scott's blast in the begining it's not like he walked through it like it was nothing grimmjow is stronger than you give credit
he really isnt,gjs regular cero has no feats on cyclops maximum level blast and wwh didnt really have the much problem with it all he lost was some skin,even gran rey cero isnt going to put hulk down,and considering a tired ichigo with a failing hollow mask can deflect gjs energy claws I dont see why someone who rumbled with classic juggernaut and matched him in strength couldnt stop them either.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
he really isnt,gjs regular cero has no feats on cyclops maximum level blast and wwh didnt really have the much problem with it all he lost was some skin,even gran rey cero isnt going to put hulk down,and considering a tired ichigo with a failing hollow mask can deflect gjs energy claws I dont see why someone who rumbled with classic juggernaut and matched him in strength couldnt stop them either. how does that compare you kept going on about creo not being any better then cycolop's max power so for your sake i was arguing from that standpoint, as for ichigo both of them were half dead at that point i'm pretty sure the power output of that attack was lower than normal , once again grand grey was an attack that was able to damage the space around where it was fired tha shows a great deal of energy output pretty sure that would knock hulk on his ass for a few seconds

strength and durability go to hulk without a doubt but speed ad versitility go to grimmjow he's got the speed and large enough attack set to put hulk down

lando005
like someone said earlier grimmjow may start off loosing in his sealed from especially if he fights upclose but if he's uleasehed and keeps his distance by say flying and attacks from above he should win even if hulk jumps at him he would be fast enough to dodge and catch hulk wide open to attack in mid air really not much he can do then besides a t-clap

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
how does that compare you kept going on about creo not being any better then cycolop's max power so for your sake i was arguing from that standpoint, as for ichigo both of them were half dead at that point i'm pretty sure the power output of that attack was lower than normal , once again grand grey was an attack that was able to damage the space around where it was fired tha shows a great deal of energy output pretty sure that would knock hulk on his ass for a few seconds

strength and durability go to hulk without a doubt but speed ad versitility go to grimmjow he's got the speed and large enough attack set to put hulk down
With what attack how many times are we going to have to go in circles,gj cant spam gran rey cero or his energy claws nonstop and those are the only attacks that will even make hulk pause,lava and nuclear blasts not effecting hulk=he has way to much regen and durability to be put down by gj.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
With what attack how many times are we going to have to go in circles,gj cant spam gran rey cero or his energy claws nonstop and those are the only attacks that will even make hulk pause,lava and nuclear blasts not effecting hulk=he has way to much regen and durability to be put down by gj. yes he survived the lava and the nuke i have the hardback for planet hulk you dont have to beat me over the head with something i have right in front of me you can atleast mention his atmospheric reentre i also have every issue of wwh and that hulk that current hulk has durability showings that show he can be damaged by much weaker forces if he was able to survive the nuke and the lava ironman shouldnt have been able to stab him with that spike but he did hulk can be hurt by far less force than a nuke

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
yes he survived the lava and the nuke i have the hardback for planet hulk you dont have to beat me over the head with something i have right in front of me you can atleast mention his atmospheric reentre i also have every issue of wwh and that hulk that current hulk has durability showings that show he can be damaged by much weaker forces if he was able to survive the nuke and the lava ironman shouldnt have been able to stab him with that spike but he did hulk can be hurt by far less force than a nuke
He can be hurt,but not the point its going to do anything,his regeneration and durability is just going to keep rising,and iron man is far superior to gj in raw strength,strop trying to make a point of him being hurt when its by beings superior to gj in strength.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
He can be hurt,but not the point its going to do anything,his regeneration and durability is just going to keep rising,and iron man is far superior to gj in raw strength,strop trying to make a point of him being hurt when its by beings superior to gj in strength. wolverine isnt stronger than grimmjow and he was able to puncture hulk's skin, thing was able to do it, she hulk was able to do it, we have no idea how strong grimmjow is but i'm willing to bet he's stronger than you give credit

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
wolverine isnt stronger than grimmjow and he was able to puncture hulk's skin, thing was able to do it, she hulk was able to do it, we have no idea how strong grimmjow is but i'm willing to bet he's stronger than you give credit
thing is physically stronger then gj for about the 5th times,and wow your bringing wolverine into this....disregarding that he has the biggest jobber aura in existence,he has adamantium claws that can cut through steel like butter and he barely cut hulk it was a superficial wound,im giving gj more then enough credit your giving him way to much hes not physically on the level of iron man or thing and doesnt have claws that cut through just about everything,gj has absolutely 0% chance of winning this,hulk will catch him eventually and when he does gj better pray hulk doesnt feel like ripping him limb from limb.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
thing is physically stronger then gj for about the 5th times,and wow your bringing wolverine into this....disregarding that he has the biggest jobber aura in existence,he has adamantium claws that can cut through steel like butter and he barely cut hulk it was a superficial wound,im giving gj more then enough credit your giving him way to much hes not physically on the level of iron man or thing and doesnt have claws that cut through just about everything,gj has absolutely 0% chance of winning this,hulk will catch him eventually and when he does gj better pray hulk doesnt feel like ripping him limb from limb. your missing the point we dont know how strong grimmjow is and the reason i brought up wolverine is because you don't need to have thing's level of strength to hurt hulk he may not have adamantium claws be he has a sword and in his released from claws of his own and bullet like spikes that can do the job just as well you cant say the character is weaker when we havent seen a strength feat from him yet that allows us to properly rate his strength

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by lando005
your missing the point we dont know how strong grimmjow is and the reason i brought up wolverine is because you don't need to have thing's level of strength to hurt hulk he may not have adamantium claws be he has a sword and in his released from claws of his own and bullet like spikes that can do the job just as well you cant say the character is weaker when we havent seen a strength feat from him yet that allows us to properly rate his strength
we saw everything gj has to offer what are you talking about,we saw him in his fully released state going all out and what was showed is not enough to put hulk down.

lando005
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
we saw everything gj has to offer what are you talking about,we saw him in his fully released state going all out and what was showed is not enough to put hulk down. i'm talking about all the comments you made about his physical strenght. We've seen him go all out using his powers but we never seen a pure strength feat from him. We're not going to agree on this you dont think he has a good enough attack array to take him down i do simple as that

Endless Mike
Are you even listening to my points?

Your calculations are bunk, because:

A. You just arbitrarily pulled distances out of thin air without scaling.

B. You assumed that the 20% reiatsu limiter equaled a 5x speed increase without evidence. Kenpachi had more reiatsu than Byakuya but Byakuya was faster, for example.

Akuki
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Are you even listening to my points?

Your calculations are bunk, because:

A. You just arbitrarily pulled distances out of thin air without scaling.

B. You assumed that the 20% reiatsu limiter equaled a 5x speed increase without evidence. Kenpachi had more reiatsu than Byakuya but Byakuya was faster, for example.
It's shown several times that the seals directly limit the speed of the fighter. For example there is the clear evidence from the Renji vs. Ichigo fight that he greatly increased in speed since the previous fight, and also from the initial attack by Grimmjow and his minions where Matsumoto was getting beating badly by her opponent who was using speed blitzes, and after the seal was removed she easily went far faster than her opponent. The seal seems to really function as limiting them to 20% of the abilities at least based on panel evidence, so your Byakuya and Kenpachi example is really irrelevant.
Also just to point out why I've been focusing on showing Byakuya's speed, if someone like Northstar causes someone like Punisher to see afterimages that isn't much of a speed feat, however if you can make someone like Quicksilver see them, then you're going damn fast.

Endless Mike
Red herring. I never said that the limiter didn't decrease their speed at all, merely that it didn't decrease it by 5 times as you claimed.

lando005
actually it would 20 x 5 = 100 last time i checked

Endless Mike
What?

The limiter just limited their reiatsu to 20% of its normal strength.

20% times 5 equals 100%.

Yet reiatsu does not scale linearly with speed.

Soljer
I'm sorry. Mike has a very good point that has ALREADY been pointed out; the calculations you did are entirely meaningless. My apologies, but you need to find another way to justify your 'mach 35' stuff.

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
What?

The limiter just limited their reiatsu to 20% of its normal strength.

20% times 5 equals 100%.

Yet reiatsu does not scale linearly with speed. when you put it like that yea your right it can go either way from a logical stand point one would say that their speed should increase in such a manner but there are cases of one's power going up without their speed

but the argument of the rest of their stats increasing 5 fold is also very hard to argue against

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