DMC(Heroes/Villains)Vs Nosgoth

Burning thought

Kain gains all his abilities according to the developers, when Raziel says he restores kain, Kain regains all his old powers.

Kain can solo this but with all his vampire lords with him as well hes going to be unstoppable. Also the soul reaver its true can suck souls when Kain stabs into his enemies but the blade can also fire a soul destroying projectile that blasts your soul from you, killing you instantly. Kain can also rip souls out himself

or he could teleport near the brothers and activate his blood rage reaver powers that would make them go mad and fight eachother.

Kains vampire lords although not as great as kain would be extremely powerful all together since Melchiah is nearly invincible and can go immaterial, the DMC would have to hack him to pieces or dissintegrate him, not to menstion Dumah is also nearly indestructable but is susceptable to fire. Rahab and Zephon would probably be easiest to dispatch but Turel would cause annoyance with constant shockwaves and soul powers.

Raziel and Kain solo this however, Kains soldiers combiend would probably help indeed but are not the highest threat, although i may be underestimating them

Sam Z

Team 2
Kain
Raziel

Who needs others...

MadMel

so true
but with the vamp lords, not to mention the sarafan lord, they are unbeatable

Charlotte DeBel

Both Dante and Vergil can resist soul suck for a short time canonwise (DMC3, mission 12, as well as encounters with soul-consuming demonic creatures). Even without Nexus stone or said stuff they can live for 10-15 minutes with Soul Reaver stabbed into their body. As for vampiric mental manipulation, according to DMC manual, Nevan was a true vampiric goddess (not some halfass whore vampire\succubus hybride), Kain's equal in terms of rank, though not overall power, and both Dante and Vergil (as well as his father, whom Estacado generously added to the list) were immune to her mental manipulation.
Both Sparda brothers and their father are resistant to soul suck and possess combat teleportation ability. So it can be possible for each of them to allow Kain stab them with Reaver, watch shocked Kain (WTF? He didn't die instantly!), teleport away and pull Soul Reaver out of their body. Then decapitate shocked Kain with his own sword.

Girls is the weakest link in DMC team, though. Lady gets killed in the first seconds of thr battle, Trish and Lucia may last longer,

IceJaw

Thanks for the PM, Charlotte.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Both Dante and Vergil can resist soul suck for a short time canonwise (DMC3, mission 12, as well as encounters with soul-consuming demonic creatures). Even without Nexus stone or said stuff they can live for 10-15 minutes with Soul Reaver stabbed into their body. As for vampiric mental manipulation, according to DMC manual, Nevan was a true vampiric goddess (not some halfass whore vampire\succubus hybride), Kain's equal in terms of rank, though not overall power, and both Dante and Vergil (as well as his father, whom Estacado generously added to the list) were immune to her mental manipulation.
Both Sparda brothers and their father are resistant to soul suck and possess combat teleportation ability. So it can be possible for each of them to allow Kain stab them with Reaver, watch shocked Kain (WTF? He didn't die instantly!), teleport away and pull Soul Reaver out of their body. Then decapitate shocked Kain with his own sword.

Girls is the weakest link in DMC team, though. Lady gets killed in the first seconds of thr battle, Trish and Lucia may last longer,

I don't think I need to add anything more to your post.

Wait, who're those guys below Kain and Raz?

MadMel

first of all, kain and raz, after all they've been through, are nearly incapable of being suprised..indeed raz absorbs and accepts every fact he recieves instantly, believing that it is somehow kains, mobeus' or the EG's fault laughing out loud

secondly, kain, raz, turel and the sarafan lord can all use TK to imobalize the DMC team..
also, kain, raz and the sarafan lord are completely immortal, and are almost impossible to knock out, or even touch..the only real threat on team DMC are mundus and sparda (assuming hes actually is on the team), as they have had more experience than any other on the team..

IceJaw

Sparda being the only real threat?

Dante surpassed Sparda, especially now since he's allowed to use ALL his powers.

Where's Darkstorm? He knows all the DMC2 stuff.

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain gains all his abilities according to the developers, when Raziel says he restores kain, Kain regains all his old powers.

Kain can solo this but with all his vampire lords with him as well hes going to be unstoppable. Also the soul reaver its true can suck souls when Kain stabs into his enemies but the blade can also fire a soul destroying projectile that blasts your soul from you, killing you instantly. Kain can also rip souls out himself

or he could teleport near the brothers and activate his blood rage reaver powers that would make them go mad and fight eachother.

Kains vampire lords although not as great as kain would be extremely powerful all together since Melchiah is nearly invincible and can go immaterial, the DMC would have to hack him to pieces or dissintegrate him, not to menstion Dumah is also nearly indestructable but is susceptable to fire. Rahab and Zephon would probably be easiest to dispatch but Turel would cause annoyance with constant shockwaves and soul powers.

Raziel and Kain solo this however, Kains soldiers combiend would probably help indeed but are not the highest threat, although i may be underestimating them
Dumah indestructible????haermm
He got pwned by 3 spears.shocklaugh

Dante could pwn any of the Vampire leaders with ease he would own Turel so badly it's not even funny.

Estacado

Originally posted by MadMel
first of all, kain and raz, after all they've been through, are nearly incapable of being suprised..indeed raz absorbs and accepts every fact he recieves instantly, believing that it is somehow kains, mobeus' or the EG's fault laughing out loud

Charlotte DeBel

Just some vampire Kain leutenants. Nothing major.

If both Dante and his father take their high demonic forms(thing called Super Sparda\Sparda form in games) and Vergil is in his Nero Angelo form...things become weird for Kain and his teammates. Non-combat teleportation requires casting time, as well as most of Kain's spells. That's where superior speed and flight ablily come into play (and where being spellcaster is a disadvantage).
Being invisible and immaterial also no big deal for Dante, Vergil and their father. In game Dante easily interacts with immaterial creatures...often interaction takes form of killing them- even with bullets (though those bullets' strength is based on the ability to charge them with demonic energy), not only contact Devil Arms.

And girls froom DMC team need to be given cheerleader outfits and stay out of combat.

Estacado

Not to mention that demons like Sparda/Mundus can only be killed by high level demons like it was told in DMC1.

Charlotte DeBel

Dante can track hidden or invisible demonic\vampiric creatures easily and shot it into head with perfect accuracy aiming only with help of his extra senses (demonic perception of the world). It's safe to say that his father and brother posess the same ability.
At hard level at DMC 3 (I think) you have invisible subboss.

Burning thought

DMC char vs Nosgoth characters is almost as bad as Fantastic 4 VS living Tribunal and Galactus

Kain can manipulate time like the brothers, move through dimensions and both Kain and Raziel can survive being disintegrated into molecules or dissolved. Especially Raziel who is effectively indestructable since he only needs to move into a corpse to return to the battle even if through a sudden godlike power one of the DMC does kill him.

the Girls should be removed if you want this to be a fair fight, they will simply act as siphons and energy power ups for Kain and Raz whos weapons and themselves can feed on them. Kains spells do not take cast time and his teleport takes less than a second, in a second the Dante brothers would not be able to kill kain. Also the soul reaver soul sucks its true, but as i said before Kain does a move called Soul death that instantly rips out your soul, its a diffrent death, same with his soul blast from the reaver.

all that will happen in this fight is that the brothers will DT, start blowing holes and slashing through kain/Raz until their DT wears off eventually and then yelp in horror as kain materialises, activates his time powers and soul death one, soul blast another..both the brothers down..then theres just mundus and Sparda VS Kain, Raz and all the vampire lords. Once again, kain can simply laugh at any attempt to harm him and destroys Mundus and Sparda with a combination of dimension powered attacks, lightning and soul deaths while Raziel can unleash elemental fire, air , light and darkness to destroy them. Theres so many ways the Nosgoth team can win its unfair

Charlotte DeBel

Well, DT is unlimited normally...and in games it can be unlimeted on harder levels. Unlimited DT is thing we can actually see in games (play DMC on harder levels (Heaven or Hell) and you get it). It's not a cheat, it's unlockable addition to powerset.
Kain and Raziel also obtain their abilities during the game, so crying "cheat" is childish and means just making fools out of yourself.
Girls should be actually removed (or given cheerleader outfit and send to watch the fight from some safe location).

And now I explain you flaws in your scenario. First of all, since there's no devil trigger limitation (which is gameplay restriction and on harder levels of the game you can get unlimited DT, and you seem to ignore those for Kain), there would be no "DT wearing off" scenario you seem to pray on.
Secondly, both Sparda brothers and their father actually can fly. Whereas Kain's only trump card is his combat teleportation (something both Dante and Vergil can do just as easily).
Thirdly, everyone in Sparda family is resistant to soul suck\soul manipulations. They can stay active and fighting for about 10-15 minutes with their souls being sucked out of their bodies during that time. So even if Kain stabs one of them with Soul Reaver, he just makes it easy for them to disarm him.
Your fourth mistake is overestimation of the reavers' abilities. Almost any Reaver can be countered by particular Devil Arm or power. The only one that doesn't have any counterpart seems to be Earth Reaver, but it's TOTALLY useless against airborne opponents.
Then telekinesis. If Kain or Raziel get lucky to held Dante in the air with help of it (it would be difficult to aim for them, though, since Sparda family members possess greater combat speed), Dante can activate his Doppelganger power and use his completely invulnerable shadow clone to beat Kain up, ruining his concentration (though because of Light Reaver, safer way would be just use his combat teleportation (Air Trick) to slip out of TK grip.

Burning thought

none of the brothers show teleportation....ive played DMC 1-3 to the end and ive not seen them teleport once, air trick and trickster abilities is not true teleportation, Kain can teleport great distances wheras the brothers air trick is very limited and only allows short distance movements.

also disarming Kain is usless, the brothers would only end up getting killed by the reaver, the reaver does not work on kain, it is a soul AND blood draining weapon, so even if the brothers do have the power to survive this at all which i have seen no evidence of in the games..where are you getting this 15 minutes of soul immunity from?...regardless of wether i belive you on this since i havnt played it for a long time id like you to show me where they have any kind of resitence and especially immunity to having their souls completly shattered, not drained as well as ripped from their bodies.

on a side note, even if they do have this so called 15 mins immunity and supposing kain doesnt simply drain the whole team dry of blood with blood gout and they die instantly from that. What makes you think they could defeat Kain in 15 mins, he still has other reaver abilities, your underestimating the time and dimension reavers since with time he can basically freeze time as well as speed himself up to counter them, he can turn his body into mist form and theyll hit nothing but air as well as its also a point Kain may actually be faster than the brothers. The Dimension power of the reaver can also allow kain instant teleportation instantly to up to 4 enemies and hit them with warp energy powered hits which could effectively slice the brothers in half or cause tremendous damage. Kain can also go Immaterial/ethereal and using a combination of teleport and his floating can almost fly.

now onto Kains TK. he could simply stick the brothers or one of them in place, Raziel to do the same to the other using his chains of telekeneisis and they wouldnt be able to move, not even use their weapons, at the same time kain could use a kind of darth vader style choking move with TK or even remove their weapons from them before cutting them down. Kain could solo all of these DMC characters using a combination of all his moves, without TK he can use incapacitate which is a magic spell, combine that with TK chains and he can freeze both brothers by himself and then battle mundus and sparda

lightness

nero angelo was teleporting long distances in dmc1 but i guess you missed that.

it's too bad by the time kain thinks of doing anything. he'll already but cut into pieces.

Guilty Gear

Originally posted by Burning thought
none of the brothers show teleportation....ive played DMC 1-3 to the end and ive not seen them teleport once, air trick and trickster abilities is not true teleportation, Kain can teleport great distances wheras the brothers air trick is very limited and only allows short distance movements.

also disarming Kain is usless, the brothers would only end up getting killed by the reaver, the reaver does not work on kain, it is a soul AND blood draining weapon, so even if the brothers do have the power to survive this at all which i have seen no evidence of in the games..where are you getting this 15 minutes of soul immunity from?...regardless of wether i belive you on this since i havnt played it for a long time id like you to show me where they have any kind of resitence and especially immunity to having their souls completly shattered, not drained as well as ripped from their bodies.

on a side note, even if they do have this so called 15 mins immunity and supposing kain doesnt simply drain the whole team dry of blood with blood gout and they die instantly from that. What makes you think they could defeat Kain in 15 mins, he still has other reaver abilities, your underestimating the time and dimension reavers since with time he can basically freeze time as well as speed himself up to counter them, he can turn his body into mist form and theyll hit nothing but air as well as its also a point Kain may actually be faster than the brothers. The Dimension power of the reaver can also allow kain instant teleportation instantly to up to 4 enemies and hit them with warp energy powered hits which could effectively slice the brothers in half or cause tremendous damage. Kain can also go Immaterial/ethereal and using a combination of teleport and his floating can almost fly.

now onto Kains TK. he could simply stick the brothers or one of them in place, Raziel to do the same to the other using his chains of telekeneisis and they wouldnt be able to move, not even use their weapons, at the same time kain could use a kind of darth vader style choking move with TK or even remove their weapons from them before cutting them down. Kain could solo all of these DMC characters using a combination of all his moves, without TK he can use incapacitate which is a magic spell, combine that with TK chains and he can freeze both brothers by himself and then battle mundus and sparda Kain would solo this? Wtf?! What the f**k?

BlaxicanHydra

Don't you know!? Kain= Most powerful video game character ever. He can solo universes, simply because he's "immortal".

Estacado

Burning thought

Originally posted by lightness
nero angelo was teleporting long distances in dmc1 but i guess you missed that.

it's too bad by the time kain thinks of doing anything. he'll already but cut into pieces.

yeh then reform...and again and again...etc etc

also what makes you think before he can do anything? nero isnt that fast, not compared to Kain who can move as a blur

Originally posted by Estacado
Vergil can teleport.....
Soul suck immunity is from DMC3 guess you have to play it again.....
Dante still has doppel ganger and quicksilver also has trickester with which he could block the reaver's attack.
Vergil could impale Kain with his "tk swords".
Oh and Kain's speed isn't impressive at all since he fight Sarafan's most of the time...

because he fights sarafans his speed isnt impressive.......the hidden logic behind this must be pretty deep

Burning thought

double post

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh then reform...and again and again...etc etc

also what makes you think before he can do anything? nero isnt that fast, not compared to Kain who can move as a blur

because he fights sarafans his speed isnt impressive.......the hidden logic behind this must be pretty deep
Show me a speed feet from Kain which is comparable to dodging or cuting bullets half in mid air....

Burning thought

Originally posted by Estacado
Show me a speed feet from Kain which is comparable to dodging or cuting bullets half in mid air....

i cannot because kain doesnt do that thing, his speed is reflected in the fact his arms and sword move like a blur when he fights and he can burst into a mist form and move almost instantly. Thing is why would kain want to cut a bullet. Also Dodging bullets are not much of a feat unless its at point blank range from a machine gun or such. But moving as a blur and moving at the speed of a mist is more than enough to keep up with the twins.

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
i cannot because kain doesnt do that thing, his speed is reflected in the fact his arms and sword move like a blur when he fights and he can burst into a mist form and move almost instantly. Thing is why would kain want to cut a bullet. Also Dodging bullets are not much of a feat unless its at point blank range from a machine gun or such. But moving as a blur and moving at the speed of a mist is more than enough to keep up with the twins.
That's all you got?
He can move blurry so he is fast enough to keep up with Dante and Vergil?haermm

lightness

the sparda brothers showed blur speed in dmc1, with much more refined technique and skill. dmc3 made them teleport speed and faster than bullet speed. much more impressive than a mere blur speed.

and dante was dodging machine guns at point blank incase you forgot. he also shot some bullets out of the air.

time stop doesn't even work against nero angelo in his most powerful form.

Burning thought

Originally posted by Estacado
That's all you got?
He can move blurry so he is fast enough to keep up with Dante and Vergil?haermm

can you move as a blur?...moving as a blur is quick when his wielding a two handed weapon and can move it incredibly fast.....and no that wasnt all i said was it, he can move like the wind when he goes into mist form, that can be fast, what makes you think the brothers can do that all the time, the slow enemies they battle against can cause them problems unless you think they can all move at bullet speed

secondly...no matter how fast a thousand machine guns fire...they cannot break the armor of an abrams tank

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
can you move as a blur?...moving as a blur is quick when his wielding a two handed weapon and can move it incredibly fast.....and no that wasnt all i said was it, he can move like the wind when he goes into mist form, that can be fast, what makes you think the brothers can do that all the time, the slow enemies they battle against can cause them problems unless you think they can all move at bullet speed

secondly...no matter how fast a thousand machine guns fire...they cannot break the armor of an abrams tank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlxCz-Ngag4

Last Fre3lancer

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Don't you know!? Kain= Most powerful video game character ever. He can solo universes, simply because he's "immortal".

I hate when game designers do that.

Estacado

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
I hate when game designers do that.
He was using sarcasm......

Last Fre3lancer

OK.

Burning thought

the video doesnt show bullet stopping speed, the one where Virgil can spin his swords stopping bullets is a good one

heres a few of Kain
shows that he can move just as fast or faster than Virgil in parts of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg_DVWDN6gQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y75dFzHoclk&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0-B-hdSG6A&mode=related&search=

and heres a pretty cool anime version, okie its not canon but its quite funny and i had to add it, besides its moves are very accurate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wde04B7Xh1E&mode=related&search=

Estacado

Burning thought

Originally posted by Estacado
None of those videos show impressive speed feats...... erm

you obviously didnt watch them all, their each about 5-6 mins long and youve posted within 10 mins of me....

the first one shows a feat just as fast as virgil cutting those things in half and they show a lot of other feats such as other kain/Raz attacks, more than enough to beat the twins

even with just his claws kain would beat the twins because the twins cannot kill kain. The guy can survive his heart torn out for heavens sake and can be disintegrated and still reform and thats if they can get past his various TK and magic powers.

what are they going to do to possibly survive blood gout...it instantly sucks out all blood in their bodies and theyll drop cold dead, and id like you to show me evidence of their "immunity" to soul sucking AND soul destruction please

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
you obviously didnt watch them all, their each about 5-6 mins long and youve posted within 10 mins of me....

the first one shows a feat just as fast as virgil cutting those things in half and they show a lot of other feats such as other kain/Raz attacks, more than enough to beat the twins

even with just his claws kain would beat the twins because the twins cannot kill kain. The guy can survive his heart torn out for heavens sake and can be disintegrated and still reform and thats if they can get past his various TK and magic powers.

what are they going to do to possibly survive blood gout...it instantly sucks out all blood in their bodies and theyll drop cold dead, and id like you to show me evidence of their "immunity" to soul sucking AND soul destruction please
laughing

Burning thought

Originally posted by Estacado
laughing

OMG What a fanboy!!!!!
Also if you have noticed time slowed down around Vergil when he fought those creatures that means he was moving much more fast we just saw things from his point of view....

Oh you mean that crappy fight with the dimension power?
Seems like you never played DMC 3 SE if you think Kain is faster then Vergil.

...you fail

and there is no dimension power in the first video....you obviously have not played LOK..unless you mistook kains TK with dimension

as i said before, kain is faster and if he "is" slower then the brothers will still be dead before they can take him because hell simply cast blood gout and they will instantly drop down blood drained....you..are the fanboy big grin

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
...you fail

and there is no dimension power in the first video....you obviously have not played LOK..unless you mistook kains TK with dimension

as i said before, kain is faster and if he "is" slower then the brothers will still be dead before they can take him because hell simply cast blood gout and they will instantly drop down blood drained....you..are the fanboy big grin

I'm not the one who said that Kain could beat LT who is 2nd to God.
Also there is a dimension reaver fight scene in the 1 st video....

Burning thought

Originally posted by Estacado
I'm not the one who said that Kain could beat LT who is 2nd to God.
Also there is a dimension reaver fight scene in the 1 st video....

that was when i didnt even know what the living tribunal really was, so i admit i was foolish when i said that....

what time on the video is the dimension reaver used? when Kain fights those void things he doesnt use the dimension reavers powers, hes just got the dimension emblem selected, hes using the sanguine sensher move

IceJaw

Originally posted by Burning thought
the video doesnt show bullet stopping speed, the one where Virgil can spin his swords stopping bullets is a good one

heres a few of Kain
shows that he can move just as fast or faster than Virgil in parts of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg_DVWDN6gQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y75dFzHoclk&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0-B-hdSG6A&mode=related&search=

and heres a pretty cool anime version, okie its not canon but its quite funny and i had to add it, besides its moves are very accurate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wde04B7Xh1E&mode=related&search= Originally posted by Burning thought
none of the brothers show teleportation....ive played DMC 1-3 to the end and ive not seen them teleport once, air trick and trickster abilities is not true teleportation, Kain can teleport great distances wheras the brothers air trick is very limited and only allows short distance movements.

also disarming Kain is usless, the brothers would only end up getting killed by the reaver, the reaver does not work on kain, it is a soul AND blood draining weapon, so even if the brothers do have the power to survive this at all which i have seen no evidence of in the games..where are you getting this 15 minutes of soul immunity from?...regardless of wether i belive you on this since i havnt played it for a long time id like you to show me where they have any kind of resitence and especially immunity to having their souls completly shattered, not drained as well as ripped from their bodies.

on a side note, even if they do have this so called 15 mins immunity and supposing kain doesnt simply drain the whole team dry of blood with blood gout and they die instantly from that. What makes you think they could defeat Kain in 15 mins, he still has other reaver abilities, your underestimating the time and dimension reavers since with time he can basically freeze time as well as speed himself up to counter them, he can turn his body into mist form and theyll hit nothing but air as well as its also a point Kain may actually be faster than the brothers. The Dimension power of the reaver can also allow kain instant teleportation instantly to up to 4 enemies and hit them with warp energy powered hits which could effectively slice the brothers in half or cause tremendous damage. Kain can also go Immaterial/ethereal and using a combination of teleport and his floating can almost fly.

now onto Kains TK. he could simply stick the brothers or one of them in place, Raziel to do the same to the other using his chains of telekeneisis and they wouldnt be able to move, not even use their weapons, at the same time kain could use a kind of darth vader style choking move with TK or even remove their weapons from them before cutting them down. Kain could solo all of these DMC characters using a combination of all his moves, without TK he can use incapacitate which is a magic spell, combine that with TK chains and he can freeze both brothers by himself and then battle mundus and sparda
Originally posted by Burning thought
you obviously didnt watch them all, their each about 5-6 mins long and youve posted within 10 mins of me....

the first one shows a feat just as fast as virgil cutting those things in half and they show a lot of other feats such as other kain/Raz attacks, more than enough to beat the twins

even with just his claws kain would beat the twins because the twins cannot kill kain. The guy can survive his heart torn out for heavens sake and can be disintegrated and still reform and thats if they can get past his various TK and magic powers.

what are they going to do to possibly survive blood gout...it instantly sucks out all blood in their bodies and theyll drop cold dead, and id like you to show me evidence of their "immunity" to soul sucking AND soul destruction please
Originally posted by Burning thought
...you fail

and there is no dimension power in the first video....you obviously have not played LOK..unless you mistook kains TK with dimension

as i said before, kain is faster and if he "is" slower then the brothers will still be dead before they can take him because hell simply cast blood gout and they will instantly drop down blood drained....you..are the fanboy big grin

Originally posted by Burning thought
that was when i didnt even know what the living tribunal really was, so i admit i was foolish when i said that....

what time on the video is the dimension reaver used? when Kain fights those void things he doesnt use the dimension reavers powers, hes just got the dimension emblem selected, hes using the sanguine sensher move
- THIS IS MADNESS!
- MADNESS? THIS IS FANBOYISM!!
Originally posted by Estacado
laughing

OMG What a fanboy!!!!!

Indeed.

Burning thought

...prove me wrong then..i am unconvinced kain loses this....ive stated facts

Kain CAN cast TK shackles to freeze enemies in place.Kain CAN move people,objects including weapons with his TK as well as choke life out of them

he can survive being dissolved and his heart torn out of his body as well as having enhanced vampiric strength as well as the strength of several other vampire souls and vampiric reflexes combined with thousands of years of experiance

Kain can call lightning, teleport, turn into mist as well as transform into both bats and a werewolf. Kain without the reaver can rip souls from his enemies bodies as well as drain all the blood from up to four beings making them dry.

with the Reaver blade the strikes hit with the power to blast enemies into pieces with a single stroke, ripping their souls as well as blood draining powers and also has the power to launch soul destroying blasts, allow kain to warp dimensions to instantly attack enemies with increased force through dimension energy, make enemies go mad and kill eachother has its own chain lightning attack and time control which speeds up kain while freezing enemies.

yes Icejaw your right, its madness ime even bothering to debate, its blatently obvious to anyone who is not a DMC fanboy that Kain alone could defeat the two, let alone with Raziel and his vampire leautenants

Charlotte DeBel

Air Trick is true teleportation (unlike Dash and Sky Star, which are merely evasive speedups...though sometimes evasive speedups are shown in games as "teleportation", but they are easy to tell from true teleportation because of after image). Vegil's Darkslayer style is based purely on teleportation.
That's pretty much the same combat teleportation as Kain's Dimension Reaver ability. Deflecting attacks with help of Dimension Reaver? Well, how about Royalguard which allows Dante to do pretty much the same?

Doppelganger is pretty much useless against Light Reaver, but I don't think Dante will need it.
Draining high demonic lords dry of blood? Good luck in trying to perform that. Nevan was a vampire of the same rank as Kain (vampiric goddess), as well as lesser vampires. No one of them was successful in that. I don't think Kain will be lucky in performing that.

There're no fanboyish claims. If you ask for video, I can give you them.

Charlotte DeBel

I'll start with gameplay videos done by master players to stop some noobish claims about what is Darkslayer and what is Royalguard.

http://www.devils-lair.org/tourney/Marty-Darkslayer.wmv
That's what can be done with Darkslayer.

http://www.devils-lair.org/tourney/Pokey-Royalguard.wmv
The best of Royalguard

http://www.devils-lair.org/tourney/Dantelink-Trickster.wmv
Trickster style

http://www.devils-lair.org/cutscenes/dmc3/low/20%20-%20M7%20-%20Family%20Reunion.avi
http://www.devils-lair.org/cutscenes/dmc3/low/21%20-%20M7%20-%20Devil%20Trigger.avi

Famous Dante\Vergil first encounter.

Charlotte DeBel

As for swordsmanship... I'm sorry but despite "uber" experience, Kain does nothing with his sword (though the sword itself is great and probably the most powerful weapon in videogames) that Dante, Vergil or their father can't do better.

That's not immunity, that's resistance. But resistance for 15 minutes is enough there.

IceJaw

Originally posted by Burning thought
...prove me wrong then..i am unconvinced kain loses this....ive stated facts

Kain CAN cast TK shackles to freeze enemies in place.Kain CAN move people,objects including weapons with his TK as well as choke life out of them

he can survive being dissolved and his heart torn out of his body as well as having enhanced vampiric strength as well as the strength of several other vampire souls and vampiric reflexes combined with thousands of years of experiance

Kain can call lightning, teleport, turn into mist as well as transform into both bats and a werewolf. Kain without the reaver can rip souls from his enemies bodies as well as drain all the blood from up to four beings making them dry.

with the Reaver blade the strikes hit with the power to blast enemies into pieces with a single stroke, ripping their souls as well as blood draining powers and also has the power to launch soul destroying blasts, allow kain to warp dimensions to instantly attack enemies with increased force through dimension energy, make enemies go mad and kill eachother has its own chain lightning attack and time control which speeds up kain while freezing enemies.

yes Icejaw your right, its madness ime even bothering to debate, its blatently obvious to anyone who is not a DMC fanboy that Kain alone could defeat the two, let alone with Raziel and his vampire leautenants
Oh, but they have, but the problem is that you just don't read anyone's posts, either that or you have the reading comprehension of a five year old, you don't even know the difference between "your" and "you're" or the difference between "through" and "threw". No offence.

They have even repeated themselves for you, why? 'Cause you didn't read their first posts and what is it you NEED to do when you're having a debate over the internet? To read, GOD that's basic and incase you really are reading them I suggest reading them again and again and again if need be. Just look at the first argument in your post, that's already been debated, *UPDATES*, there you go BT, you got proved wrong again with an repeated argument, again.

And you're calling ME a fanboy? You claim you've played DMC when you clearly haven't.

Wow, just...Wow.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
There're no fanboyish claims.
Except for BT's "KAIN CAN SOLO THIS". I know you meant no fanboyish claims from us, just had to put that out there.

Charlotte DeBel

Actually, when Kain's fanboys start scaring desent people with BS "facts" that Kain can toss mountains with his TK or other stuff, someone needs to stop that madness. Kain's combat teleportation avaliable with dimension reaver is no different from Air Trick or Darkslayer- teleportation next to enemy.
Vergil, Dante and their great father all have shown much greater combat speed overall, and they are mystical warriors, not spellcasters- that means that their abilities are activated with mere thought, without any hand gestures (unlike Kain's overrated TK).

And I'm not hater...for example, when Lionhearrtmm was ruining the image of reasonable Dante fan with claims that Dante can kill Living Tribunal, I was willing to kill him. People start to hate characters because of their rabid fanboys.

Charlotte DeBel

By the way, a friend of mine gave me a funny idea about countering Kain's mist form with Rudra by simply blowing it away...that should look really funny and it's entirely possible by performing either Whirlwind or Agni&Rudra Combo III (I use Devil's Lair classification of combos)... Not to mention that Dante (as well as his father and brother) is able to kill immaterial creatures.
Also an interesting thing to see would be "a bat-fight" between Kain's bats form and those electrically-charged bats summoned with Nevan...

Though that's just funny ways to counter Kain's "sneak" abilities and nothing major.

And the soul suck resistance? DMC3, mission 12, as well as numerous encounters with soul-sucking demonic creatures during the said game.

Burning thought

FYI ive read all the opiinions and ideas of people in this thread, but i have played all the games, yes i know what revan is, rank means nothing either...many things during gaming have the rank of god and some of them are puny compared to some characters in other games with no rank at all before their names, Revan uses a form of kiss and bats, shes much more a seduction vampire rather. Revan hasnt been shown to drain from a distance the entiety of a beings blood, wheras Kain in BO does it to demons,humans as well as other beasts. The brothers are not demon lords, they are half demon and they would not have any protection against Blood shower unless you can show me undeniable proof of it.

no matter how many times you try to say it, Trickster is still very limited teleportation, id like to see a video of dante moving further than a few metres with it.

also blowing away Kains mist form?, he could change back immediatley if he felt it was a threat and thats if it worked at all considering in mist form kain is in control of his body like it is a solid form, if this blowing away tactic works then your helping kain by giving him distance to use his TK and magic from. Kain doesnt use hand gesteres for most of his BO spells and his TK needs a quick hand movement and the target is frozen, the brothers wont be able to do anything while in TK shackles.

yes i agree, Kain shows no flashy or cocky sword skills, he can move his bland like the wind shredding his enemies however both in air and on the ground, what else would he need, its enough to not allow the brothers to get a sword hit in half the time what with him going into mist and passing through them not to menstion the reavers powerful explosive force on every hit would send them back a good distance.

and ill have to repeat, soul sucking is diffrent from soul destroying, having your soul sucked from you is what the reaver does, however kain destroys your soul with the Soul death spell, instantly he could kill one of the brothers, vergil is probably the strongest of the two brothers so Kain would have to kill him to make the biggest diffrence

also Darkslayer is not the same as Dimension reaver, first it instantly moves to up to 4 enemies in quick succession between each kain cannot be hit since his moving through dimensions incredibly quikcly and each strike of his sword is empowered even further with dimension energy, considering Soul reaver blade is already powerful enough to blast a human into pieces with one strike, empowered with dimension energy to further the thing...the brothers are going to be in a world of hurt

ofcourse once again even if Kain just stood there, the brothers cannot harm kain, only the reaver is surposed to be able to do it, but since the reaver is now Raziel who is kains ally it doesnt harm kain anymore which is why Kain cannot lose this fight simply because the brothers cannot kill him.

Charlotte DeBel

Oh my dear...Dante was able to resist his blood being sucked from his body by vampires numerous times...his body is able to withstand loss of gallons of blood. The same can be said about Vergil and Sparda Senior.

As for demonic lords. Look at Dante at DMC2 or Vegil in his Nero Angelo form. Both are true heirs of their father power, and being halfblood gives them an advantage over pureblood demons rather than a disadvantage.

The point with Rudra was made to counter "sneak attack in mist form" point. I don't think it would be too helpful, but that would be stimul for Kain to stay solid.
As for examples of quick combat teleportation from Dante, look at the fight with Despair Embodied (true skyfather-level being) at the end of DMC2.
By the way, Dante and his father can PWN Kain via the same algoritm Dante did to that deity. It was ready for pure demonic energy blast and didin't except any danger from guns ("weapon of puny mortals" wink

- so Dante pulled out trojan horse trick, using his charging ability to channel all his demonic energy into Ebony and Ivory and giving to Despair Embodied seemingly harmless shot.
Since Kain doesn't know what firearms are, he can be tricked in the same way, I think. In games Dante is able to shoot ghosts with bullets charged with demonic energy (he uses that energy for "infinite bullets" ability, making shots as strong as he wishes (depending on how much energy he puts into the weapon)- from simply moving snooker balls to killing skyfather-level entities).

Charlotte DeBel

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/attackkain.php
http://www.devils-lair.org/w-rebellion.php

Kain's combat speed is not that overwhelming when you compare him to either Dante or Vergil.

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/reaverkain.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/reaverraz.php

Defiance reavers abilities...nice but not too overwhelming, I think. Nothing that can't be countered. And Blood Shower is good, but using that on three opponents with really great healing factor is not that big of an advantage to Kain.
Also, as IceJaw said, Dante can increase his combat speed by using Quickheart amulet. And once his reaction speed is greater than Kain's , he can easily activate Quicksilver before Kain activates Time Reaver, and then... it's going to bo one hell of the party.

Even though Kain is technically immortal, KOing him is still possible.

Burning thought

despair is no way sky-father level, its puny, where does it show anything comapred to a sky-father, the thing was puny to beat in-game....infact the combinaton of all the DMC bosses in that big mess was harder than despair, since its attacks were easy to predict.

Kains combat speed if not as good as Dante and Vergil will be more than enough to defend himself from them, what makes you think with quickheart he has faster reflexes than Kain, Kain has the reflexes of nearly 10 vampires who he drained of their essence and their strength, also despair embodied cannot reform after being vaporised wheras Kain can, so even if the brothers get he drop on Kain they will not be able to destory him.

KOing Kain is no simple feat either, the only time is when Kain had the heart of darkness ripped out of him, since he no longer has any true means of being knocked out anymore how will they manage such a feat..chopping his head off or his limbs and hell simply reform.

another note on Blood shower is that it doesnt drain some blood, it drains all of it instantly, the brothers are very fast at regenerating i know but they have shown no way of regenerating their bodies supply, their bodies will simply shut down and they will both die. Mist form would not be used as a sneak attack in this fight since the brothers would probably be able to sense kain, however kain can keep using it to simply evade any attack they send at him and their weapons would pass through the mist, the brothers have not been shown to shoot mist.....

also on the reaver abilties, how will the brothers counter flame reavers inspire hate, once cast the brothers will end up trying to kill eachother, that would be time for kain to just sit back and watch the fun

Charlotte DeBel

Despair Embodied was skyfather-level storylinewise (a creature that embodied all the despair in the universe), not gameplaywise. Judging by gameplay, Elder God also wasn't that "godly". Just friggin' mass of tentacles.

Dante is able to kill immaterial creatures in game. Though their structure is closer to the form Kain or Raziel take usung Spectral Reaver. Those ghosts can be shoot by Dante's or Sparda's guns, impaled by Vergil's energy swords (with which he can keep his enemies immobilized in the air, also- in gameplay that trick called Sword Hanging). And as for mist form...as I've already said, mist form can be trapped into the vortex created by Agni and Rudra.

Fighting both Sparda brothers and their father would be trouble for Kain...all three can resist their lifeforce being drained from them and that's shown in all DMC games numerous time.
Inspire Hate would be difficult, though they have resisted vampiric mental manipulation based on "primary instincts",

Charlotte DeBel

Kain has quite nice combat speed in his Wolf form, but he can neither perform spellcasting nor use Reaver in that form, if I'm not mistaken.

Burning thought

i admit it will not be "easy" for kain, but he wont lose this, even if he doesnt actually beat the brothers he wont lose the fight and his mist form as i said is quite solid, if it can be blown away he would end up all over the place when using it wouldnt he since hes outside in mountain ranges and blustery areas both in cutscenes and gameplay, he is too in control with his mist to end up getting blown away

the mist form your reading there is the old BO mist form, but by the time of the end of Defiance he had mastered it so he could use it with ease and little will. And yes elder god wasnt godly, although he wasnt really a God as such, he was false God but the Despairs endurance is not equel to kains since it cnanot come back from vaporisation.

i still say kain could solo most of this based upon looking at the facts, he still simply has so many cards up his sleeves, even if the brothers counter some of his moves they could not counter indefinatley and eventually Kain will be able to activate blood shower or the brothers will not be able to take him down in 15 minutes and he will reave their souls, thats considering he cannot perform soul death before hand which doesnt suck but destroys souls instantly. He will solo but not easily but since Raziel AND Kain as well as all the vampire lords are actually in the battle then i think Nosgoth has this in the bag in the end

Charlotte DeBel

"All the vampire lords" are toys for Mundus and Sparda senior and nothing more. Let's let Mundus deal with them (he should succeed in such rather simple job) and concentrate on Sparda brothers and their great father vs Kain and Raziel.
First of all, Dante and Vergil's combat speed is supersonic. To perform his Sky Star evasive move, as well as the whole "anti-rain dome" created with sword, Dante should move at something like pre-isotope E Quicksilver speed (Max 3 or even more). Swinging swords with blurry afterimage isn't that impressive comparing to that. And mist form can't go quicker than the fastest wind, so Kain's best bet in terms of evasion is beaten. That's even without any speedups provided by Quickheart. I doubt he even would be able to react on anything on those speeds...and it also makes us think that Dante would be able to activate Quicksilver before Kain does the same with Time Reaver- because of superior reaction speed.

Also I wonder what happens with mist form when it comes into contact with fire (Ifrit ability, as well as Agni which is used in pair with Rudra). Logically fire and heat should cause at least some damage to the mist.

Guilty Gear

...................................................................

I believe this would be close. One thing about Kain turning into mist though. Can't Mundus like, destroy the mist or something? I don't think it'll take much effort to do that...just my opinion.

Charlotte DeBel

Also I don't know how mist form interacts with fire or laser beams from Spiral\Nightmare-beta. Going by common logic, those things will cause Kain a lot of pain while he's in the mist form.

And yes, that's nice fight with no "soloing" from both demons and vamps side.

Burning thought

whats makes you think the vampire lords are toys....some of them are almost as durable as Kain, Malchiah needs to be completly vaporised and can go immaterial, ime sure it doesnt say anywhere that mundus can hit immaterial objects and Dumah has strength perhaps greater than kain physically. Rahab however is usless unless there is water nearby wheras Turel will bother all nosgoth enemies since his long reaching screeches and sonic blasts will be knocking them off their feet, if they dont take out Turel all of DMC apart from perhaps mundus will be greatly bothered by him.

the speed of thought is all Kain needs to activate his reaver, also theres nowhere that says canonwise that Devil trigger is unlimited so eventually they will run out of energy to perform quick silver not to menstion if kain simply activates time reaver with a thought and so does Dante and Vergil then they will be fighting on normal terms as if there was no time distortion effect since the effects would cancel eachother out, then we would have Raziel freezing the brothers with ice and blasting them with great winds. Also Kains mist is not used for its speed, although it can be incredibly fast its main use is to simply not get hit by opponents due to its ethereal nature, its like trying to hit air.

also dont forget TK, with but a quick arm movement the brothers could be disarmed of their weapons and then thrown to the floor or telekinetically shackled so they cannot move, even at their great speed the brothers wont be able to stop kain from issueing one arm movement, since Kain is not slow himself, considering they will be moving towards kain. Not to menstion Kain could teleport quickly a huge distance away or cast inspire hate just as they move towards him.

the best way the Nosgoth team could fight DMC team is if Kain solo the brothers while Raziel helps the Vampire lords in taking down Mundus, combined Raz and vamp lords would easily dispatch mundus who cannot move at enormous speed and whos power doesnt seem grand at all especially since Raziel has the reaver also, he could swallow Mundus' soul.

lightness

dante already got bitten by a vampire in the canon manga.

nothing would suggest kain would survive if someone cut him in 1/2

lightness

timestop doesn't work against nero angelo in his strongest form which we are including

IceJaw

In case someone missed this:

Originally posted by Estacado
Kain(Defiance)
Raziel(Defiance)

Charlotte DeBel

Originally posted by IceJaw
In case someone missed this:

So no Blood Shower spell\Implode\Tarot (even if we suggest anything like that works on members of Sparda family, because Dante and his father have encountered vampires before). As for time manipulation...it depends on who reacts first. Dante and Vergil's reaction speed\combat speed is above Kain's. Also Dante in high demonic form (Super Sparda form) and Nero Angelo are resistant to time manipulation.

Cutting into two pieces wouldn't be enough. But cutting into like 8-10 pieces and then teleporting those pieces far away from the battleground would be the good way to deal with vamp.

Burning thought

Kain regains all his old powers by the end of Defiance when Raziel restores kain with the purified reaver and then goes into the soul reaver, blood shower and such are still an option, regardless theres still no evidence to back up any part of the DMC team surviving blood shower, yes theyve encountered vampires but Revan nor any of the vampires have tried to suck their blood forcefully from their veins from a distance of 10 metres let alone all the blood at once, Revan is not as evolved as Kain.

also their speed when they move may be quick in battle, but theres no evidene to suggest they have quicker minds than kain, kain has incredible mind capacity, neither of the brothers have TK as impressive as kains which flows from his mind, Kain can also control the minds of enemies or greatly harm the minds of those too strong for control, although this may not work on the brothers its still an example of his sharpness, he may not fight as fast although he isnt too far from them but triggering time reaver takes but a thought.

aslo where does it say they are resistent to time powers, i must of missed where it said that. Also the time reaver effects kain, speeding him up not just affecting his enemies so if the brothers are resitent at all then kain still gains a burst of speed to even the odds. Once again its still not canon that the brothers can stay in DT or that quicksilver has unlimited usage.

also not cutting into 1000 pieces wouldnt be enough, as i said before he can reform after being dissolved and when have any of the brothers or DMC characters in this battle shown to be able to teleport other objects around, especialyl since kain when dissolved can reform so cutting him up is not going to make a diffrence to his durability. Kain can also reform through the use of mist bats, the same way he travels as a swarm of them he can also reform from them.

Charlotte DeBel

Teleporting objects around is within Mundus' powerset, not Dante's or Vergil's. Limited DT is gameplay restriction, which you can remove by passing the game on Heaven or Hell level (so-called "Super Dante" costume). Also we have missions in gameplay where we are granted unlimited DT (that means infinite Quicksilver or Doppelgander), for example, already mentioned Mission 12 in DMC. On normal levels DT is limited for the sake of balance.
On the other hand, we have no proof of Soul Reaver's infinite charge (no ways to unlock infinite charge other that cheat codes which we don't count for obvious reasons). Energy Banks have that awful side effect...

Also why are you calling Nevan Revan?Are you confusing her with someone else?

Estacado

Soul Reaver doesn't have infinite charge unless you use cheats.....

Estacado

Originally posted by lightness
dante already got bitten by a vampire in the canon manga.

nothing would suggest kain would survive if someone cut him in 1/2
Agreed.Also can't take too much damage without the need to "retreat" to "reform"and Raziel can be easily sent back to the spectral realm with a few slashes.

Charlotte DeBel

Originally posted by Estacado
Soul Reaver doesn't have infinite charge unless you use cheats.....

On the other hand, we've seed ifinite DT gameplaywise after we get that "Super Dante" costume (no cheatcodes, only beating the game on hard levels) as well as in missions like mission 12 in DMC3. There's no shown DT time limit in cutscenes as well.
Both Dante and Vergil can easily cut Kain into pieces and then allow Mundus to teleport said pieces to the orbit.
Reaver can be taken as a trophy wink

Burning thought

Super Dante costume isnt a cheat but it is not canon either, if Dante could stay in DT canonwise then he would do it all the time and on all his enemies just for the sake of it wouldnt he, why would he bother staying normal at all those times when the power of flight or super speed would make it so much easier. Also it only takes a couple of slashes with the Reaver to charge it full, perhaps one or two combos and Kain can activate the power of the reaver also when the Reaver becomes the Soul reaver it has infinite charge as we see in Soul reaver and if you load up a save game in Defiance at the end when youve already beaten elder god you end up at the nearest checkpoint with the Soul reaver and it doesnt lose charge.

and no sorry i meant Nevan, as i said not played DMC 3 for like a year, started it up this morning tho so ill run it through to see if there is a chance for the lads to take kain

also who says theres an orbit, the battleground has not even been said has it? or have i missed something, regardless teleporting them to orbit will do nothing, kain will simply reform, kain in the games reforms at checkpoints but its logical to assume since their gameplay he would reform anywhere he pleases since checkpoints are not real. Also when does Mundus teleport something...all the attacks i remember is a series of diffrent laser attacks and a fiery dragon he summons in the first part and then you battle him while flying.

also yeh good going, try taking the reaver then have your soul ripped from you, the soul reaver is not merely a sword, its basically Raziel in mind and spirit and although it doesnt drain kain due to them being allies it would tear out anyone elses soul who touches it or would keep them away long enough for kain to reclaim his weapon.

another interested point is that what is the characters mindset in this battle? do they know who eachother are, for example you said Kain would not know guns and bullets which is true, so the brothers would not know who kain or his powers are not to menstion his TK powers. Knowing dante he would be cocky and neither of the brothers unsheathe their swords until they think theres a real threat or to threaten wheras Kain can use Tk and his plethora of spells with his mind and for TK hand movements, unless the rules of the fight say they already know eachother kain will imediatley have the upper hand because he has some powers at his finger tips that could stop the boys on the go as well as he can read minds that he gains from Marcus in Blood omen 2 so he will be able ot read the boys before they realise hes a threat and activate his time powers.

Superboy Prime

What makes you think Dante & Vergil's reaction speed is faster than Kain's? because they fight at faster speeds?

Nah. What you need to prove in this kind of scenario is who has the faster mind. Who will think the move first. Etc.

So unless Kain or Dante or Vergil have shown some sort of ability to multitask at super speed with only their brain then yes...I'd agree.

But as far as I see they will both be freezing time and fight normally.

A good exmaple of how someone can think at high levels of speed is how Superman is shown to read/analize a thousand mathematical equations in less then a second.

Burning thought

well the only consideration that i can think of at this time that would point to kain being faster would simply be his thousands of years of experiance as well as draining the essence of several fairly ancient vampires including one who had a great mind, having a brain thousands of years old as well as using knowledge to try and twist his fate across various time streams and taking into consideration every part is no small feat

but i would have to look into this, but your right, jsut because someone fights fast doesnt mean they will react faster

Estacado

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
What makes you think Dante & Vergil's reaction speed is faster than Kain's? because they fight at faster speeds?

Nah. What you need to prove in this kind of scenario is who has the faster mind. Who will think the move first. Etc.

So unless Kain or Dante or Vergil have shown some sort of ability to multitask at super speed with only their brain then yes...I'd agree.

But as far as I see they will both be freezing time and fight normally.

A good exmaple of how someone can think at high levels of speed is how Superman is shown to read/analize a thousand mathematical equations in less then a second.
You need fast thinking/reaction time to cut a bullet half in midair.....

Burning thought

not neceserily, reaction time maybe but fast thinking? no, if the brothers move as fast as you think they do then they dont have to think as quickly not to menstion since theyve been fighting a lot if not all of their lives things like that would become second nature to them as well as instinct. It does not prove their minds are sharp enough to activate anything before kain, still as i said before its unlikely they will imediatley activate DT when they see kain who to them probably looks pretty week comapred to other things they faced

Superboy Prime

lightness

dante has teleported things before and seal them. if you remember jackpot

Charlotte DeBel

Kain has mystical aura which is pretty powerful considering his magic potential. It would be quite hard for them to confuse him with regular human- even amine and Dreamvave comics version of Dante was able to see vampires in human disguice. And going by enormous Kain's mystical power, he'd seem like a powerful adversary to them and not harmless by any means.

That's just a version- regarding high speed of perceiving information to which your examples are related directly (that's sort of Superman learning T-Vo in a couple of nights). Anyways, their reaction speed is superhuman and it's proven by example with bullets etc. Faster reaction speed probably means faster speed of thought. I can't give you examples of sophisticated combat analysis (marksmanship that's better than those of human snipers who use ballistic computers is rather weak example there), but that has nothing to do with actual situation.
If anything, Kain being a spellcaster is a bit of disadvantage there- all those gestures directing the spells, TK etc. And fighting on "normal" speeds means that Kain is still slower speedwise- like final fight in one of the Prince of Persia games (I don't remember which one).

Charlotte DeBel

Also cutting a missle in a half in midair with perfect accuracy without making it explode requires superhuman reaction speed.

Guilty Gear

Hell yeah it does.

Charlotte DeBel

Sniping mastery also requires some nasty calculations to be done (I'm a desent biathlonist myself and know that well)- you should take things like wind, your target's movement etc into account...good sniper's mind makes all those calculations without any computer. So far Dante has shown perfect accuracy with all his firearms etc. Though the fighting practice as far as aiming etc goes for experienced fighter is on instinct-level, and that's also true for experienced gunslingers...they don't think HOW they are going to perform this or that move.

Also Dante is known for his ability to improvise, he doesn't just learned a couple of things and just performs them on superhuman speed without thinking like trained animal...he is smart and creative fighter. And on the top of that he still jokes etc when fighting no matter on which speed.

Guilty Gear

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Sniping mastery also requires some nasty calculations to be done (I'm a desent biathlonist myself and know that well)- you should take things like wind, your target's movement etc into account...good sniper's mind makes all those calculations without any computer. So far Dante has shown perfect accuracy with all his firearms etc.

Also Dante is known for his ability to improvise, he doesn't just learned a couple of things and just performs them on superhuman speed without thinking like trained animal...he is smart and creative fighter. And on the top of that he still jokes etc when fighting no matter on which speed. I concur.

Charlotte DeBel

Being skilled fighter and gunslinger, Dante doesn't think HOW he will perform this or that particular move- that's on reflexes level so far. But he doesn't just perform learned moves without thinking- he's creative and smart fighter.
Performing moves itself is not an example of multitasking, since it's reflex-based. But inventing creative combat strategy on the move and fighting in a smart way while still being able to crack jokes, mock your enemies (that's not home-made preparations) etc is.

Burning thought

it does but it still doesnt show a sharpness of mind that predetermines events correctly through several time streams to change his destiny, also Kain still doesnt move at normal speed, hes incredibly fast and even if the brothers are faster which is not by much now that ime playing the game myself as we speak. Also spells dont require gestures, Kain "can" aim his reaver spells if he wants to but its not required since he just activates the sword and their Area of affect based anyway apart from lightning, the only thing that needs gestures is his TK, but thats only a quick arm movement, as soon as its activated the brothers are under his TK powers, in one arm movement kain could freeze them both in TK shackles.

Also DT still does run out, canonwise neither brother can constantly use DT, Quicksilver as well as other things otherwise they would do so but obviously it is either limited to their own energy reserves or the opponents they fight, perhaps quicksilver canonwise does not work against strong willed enemies like Vergil in which case it would not work on Kain, however thats just a suggestion and cannot be proven, but the fact DT is not unlimited is proven since it can only be unlimited when you unlock costumes and such wheras kains reaver is unlimited when it becomes the soul reaver as we see in the soul reaver game and in-game at the end of defiance, when you fight kain in soul reaver his reaver powers never run out.

in the end the brothers will not be able to stop kain simply because even if Kain is not as fast as them (which i doubt but still) then his durability will outlast their powers, as they are trying to cut him hell be constantly going into mist, reforming..Kain reforms when he gets wounded instantly, although i doubt the brothers would be able to cut through Kain easily in the first place, even if they could, they wouldnt be able to cut him into ten while hes constantly reforming after every arm and turning into mist, eventually their DT, quicksilver will run dry and Kain will activate all his reaver powers and destroy them or blast their souls. Also i may have failed to menstion it so far, but its said in the game itself that soul reaver is the only thing that can harm kain, including Raziel himself who is the soul reaver also, so the brothers wont be able to break kains body with their weapons, another plot device is that Raziel becomes Kains own sword and they become allies, breaking the plot and making kain literally invincible so the brothers cannot actually win unles they somehow knock him out, which is unlikely.
Another good example of kains durability is that the Elder God itself who has an unlimited number of lorry sized tentacles each the strength to smash through tonnes of rock like paper and launches huge balls of energy from its large eyes admits that it can never kill Kain or Raziel, this thing thinks itself as a God and all powerful and admits this speaks volumes of kain and raziels durabiity..not to menstion the unlikelyness that theyll be able to knock him out if that thing cant..its only threat was to bury kain alive under the citadel which also failed since kain just teleports.

i still doubt many things such as the brothers being able to resist soul death and soul blast spells since they dont suck souls, they destroy them but ime playing through DMC 3 now so ill soon find out myself.

(also on DMC 3 what would you suggest the best style to beat agni and rudra the fastest is?, at the moment ime only level 2 swordsman and have only one health upgrade and no other items except large vial star)

Charlotte DeBel

Limits on DT is gameplay restriction. Vergil stayed in demon form as Nero Angelo almost constantly. In DMC3 in mission 12 you're also allowed to stay in DT for unlimited period of time (though it's limited by the fact that your soul and life energy is sucked out of you during the mission and you're only able to survive for 15 minutes).
Why Dante doesn't always fight enemies in his demon form? Because it's a bit OOC to him, knowing his attitude towards demons. It isn't "proper revenge" to kill demons while you're in demonic form yourself. But he takes it when it's needed, and he enjoys fighting in his human form, taking the best of his human side- it's more of a moral restriction that something other... It's like Sara Pezzini not using Witchblade powers and armour to fight off regular criminals.

And as for style... the best one is Royal Guard. Weapons- Rebellion and Ebony&Ivory. Keep Agnii and Rudra as far away from each other as you can.

Charlotte DeBel

Oddly, in arguably the best game of series (DMC3) we see rookie 19years old Dante- who's still great and powerful despite his young age.

And the most powerful Dante storylinewise is the one who depicted in DMC2 and Nocturne (the last one is related to DMC2, but not directly belong to DMC canon- but there's the same version of Dante which is depicted in DMC2) which are the most uninteresting games featuring our whitehaired handsome devil hunter.

Burning thought

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Limits on DT is gameplay restriction. Vergil stayed in demon form as Nero Angelo almost constantly. In DMC3 in mission 12 you're also allowed to stay in DT for unlimited period of time (though it's limited by the fact that your soul and life energy is sucked out of you during the mission and you're only able to survive for 15 minutes).
Why Dante doesn't always fight enemies in his demon form? Because it's a bit OOC to him, knowing his attitude towards demons. It isn't "proper revenge" to kill demons while you're in demonic form yourself. But he takes it when it's needed, and he enjoys fighting in his human form, taking the best of his human side- it's more of a moral restriction that something other... It's like Sara Pezzini not using Witchblade powers and armour to fight off regular criminals.

And as for style... the best one is Royal Guard. Weapons- Rebellion and Ebony&Ivory. Keep Agnii and Rudra as far away from each other as you can.

Nero Angelo does not seem a true demon form, not to menstion its influenced by Mundus, poor vergil gets almost completly taken by mundus and in mission 12 would not be a good idea if your soul and life is being ripped from you lol

hmm yes royal guard, ill have to try that then, swordmen i find is a fast and interesting style but it lacks in some cases.

and yes DMC 2 was a little low in story, i dont really like the more modern-futuristic approach, things like demon tanks and a lot of laser using enemies, doesnt feel right, i prefer DMC 1 and 3 for its gothic approach..not to menstion DMC 3 has some cool bosses indeed, even the 3 headed dog in the beginning is a cool fight.

ty for tips, what would you say is the most difficult boss fight?

Charlotte DeBel

And by the way, you diidn't answer to my question- how does Kain's mist form react on fire or heat? Because logically Kain as a mist should be in world of hurt while damaged by fire-related stuff (for example, trapped into heat vortex created with Agni&Rudra) or when laser beam comes through it (Artemis or Nightmare-beta).
Trapped into fiery vortex, Kain should have to take his material form which leaves him open for "continuation".

Charlotte DeBel

The most interesting ones are with Nevan and Vergil, IMHO. The easiest boss to kill is Lady.
Royalguard is ideal style for blocking any enemy attacks. By the way, it's really useful and will most probably help to parry even slashes with Soul Reaver wink

Limits on DT is a gameplay restriction, anyways, because of reasons said above (gameplaywise unlimited DT is given to you only in one mission, where the soul suck resist is shown, to keep the balance).

Quicksilver isn't related to will, but strongest demons are able to counter it, probably (Dante in Sparda form was able to counter and deflect most of Mundus' magic during their fight in outer space). Also during the said battle Dante showed the ability to stay in high demonic form (Sparda form) for as long as it's necessary- though gameplaywise without unlockable costumes DT would be limited due to balance issues- the same reason because of which Soul Reaver needs to be charged in actual gameplay in LoK games.

Burning thought

why, kain in mist form is no less durable than normal kain, its not just mist, its kain as mist..also mist doesnt burn does it..infact mist has been known to put out fires because the air is less dense or more dense in mist so fires are unlikely to harm it

i still doubt infnite DT or at least infinite quicksilver is likely, sure its gameplay balance but logically speaking you never see Dante staying in DT for a very long amount of time apart from in sparda Dante form which he stays in it until he beat mundus

aslo what do you mean leaves him open for continuation?

Charlotte DeBel

I mean that if Kain materialises, there's problem. Normal mist is water particles suspended in the air.
Actually if we talk about mist, laser beams are known to disintegrate particles of mist in their way (that's why mist is a good way to shield someone against lasers), so performing Spiral's Acid Rain attack would certainly damage Kain's mist form.

Acid Rain - Shoots multiple laser beams into the air which come raining down on enemies.

That thing passing through Kain's mist form would certainly be harmful to him.

Burning thought

not necesserily, its still kain, also his mist form can move like the wind, its unlikely the nightmare gun will even hit him since its not the fastest of weapons. Regardless of what form kain takes, its still kain, its not normal mist, its kain as mist..so still his only vulerability is the reaver, even if he takes on werewolf form or becomes immaterial its still kain just like mist form.

Charlotte DeBel

As I've already said there's moral reasons for Dante staying in his human form and using demonic one only when it's necessary. He enjoys being in human form and fighting in it. He takes demonic form only when it's needed (but can stay in it as long as needed) because he doesn't want to accotiate himself with those who killed his mom.
Not to mention eating strawberry ice-cream and pizza is lot less fun in demon form, given those fangs etc.

Immortal doesn't mean unkillable. If he's cut into a pieces and then Mundus teleports those pieces into deep space, it would be BFR victory of some sort.

Burning thought

yes but theres no reason for him not constantly keeping time powers on if he was capable, or no reason for not keeping DT constantly active when fighting his brother or his other enemies, theres so many enemies where he shows he cannot constantly have it active, otherwise he would be able do beat them all with ease unless things that have a fair amount of power cna resist time control in which case no reason kain would not be able to taking into that logic, its certainly a viable suggestion that he cannot DT constantly, it must take a lot of effort to keep a himself in that form or something, smae with time powers maybe it physicall fatigues him if he does it for too long.

Charlotte DeBel

It's not about easiness. Dante really enjoys fighting in human form and if he feels he can manage that in human form, he won't take his demonic one. His attitude to fight clearly shows that it's fun for him in fighting as human...
Anyways, he wasn't tired or anything when fought Mundus.So fatigue isn't reason...there are no reasons for Dante not fighting in demon form constantly rather than psychological ones.

Also Nightmare and Artemis are slow to shoot (lasers can't be shot like machineguns for obvious reasons- they aren't fast to shoot), but the shot itself is a laser beam which travels at light speeds or something like that. Speed of light>>>speed of wind.

Charlotte DeBel

Though it shots slowly (but not slow projectiles) and the aim is relatively easy to dodge (aim, not shot)- that's why I suppose using Acid Rain there- multiple laser beams coming at someone is next to impossible to dodge at the speed of wind.

Burning thought

lol but it wont do anything....the laser doesnt hit at the speed of light either, its not that fast, diffrent lasers have diffrent levels of speed, and this one is not as fast as the speed of light, i was using it 5 mins ago, its just not a very good weapon it seems

and if it hits so what...kain isnt going to be suddenly permanently disintergrated, the weapon isnt that strong and in mist form it will probely just condense the mist further making it even more a nuisance to the brothers, only the reaver can harm can and not even that can cut through kains mist, its not exactley normal every day mist, its like supernatural stuff

regardless kain doesnt need the mist, hell simply take the brothers punishment until he finally activates his own reaver, thats ofcourse that they do beat him to it which i still dont belive they will and then theyll be frozen or time will go back to normal as quicksilver and kains reaver cancel eachother out and then kain will have some fun with Tk, spells and reaver soul blasts, 15 minutes will pass eventually and the brothers will have their souls destroyed.

lightness

jackpot takes care of kain. when has kain came back from being cut into pieces?

Burning thought

he comes back constantly when he gets dissolved..thats worse than being cut to pieces and regardless whos going to cut him into pieces?

also Debel atm ime in hell and ive done the chess trial but is there no fast way through the next one? or do i have to just do all the bosses again.

lightness

vergil can easily cut him to pieces without moving from his spot or already moved before he can see what happenned.

jackpot still kills him or seals him in hell for ever or a really long time.

Charlotte DeBel

Sealing him in hell is really good idea. He deserves that...there, in hell, he can be immortal for as long as he wishes-nobody would care smile

Charlotte DeBel

http://www.twilightvisions.com/dante/dmc.htm#bosses

Some tips about bosses for you, burning thought.

Burning thought

Originally posted by lightness
vergil can easily cut him to pieces without moving from his spot or already moved before he can see what happenned.

jackpot still kills him or seals him in hell for ever or a really long time.

l2 read other peoples posts, kain can only be harmed by the soul reaver as it says so in games Soul reaver 2 and definatley Defiance, their swords will bounce off of him or break. I could be mistaken but i cant remember reading all of the DMC swords are unbreakable, its fair to assume Spardas sword is indestructable but a lot of the other weapons wielded by Dante and would not seem indestructablr, although its probably strong Vergils Yamato blade is a thin weapon, it wont last indefinatley with the reaver smashing against it, which is an indestructable weapon especially since it hits with the force to blast a person into pieces, a sword that thin would not last too long.

Kain escapes the Hylden hell when Raziel sends him into it, also id like to see them try and seal kain in hell, infact hell is not said to be in this match, we dont know the battlefield their in, regardless they would not be able to get him in there and then have enough time to keep him in while they seal it.

(thx debel, done all of em except the last vergil now smile

i hear he is a tough one indeed)

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
l2 read other peoples posts, kain can only be harmed by the soul reaver as it says so in games Soul reaver 2 and definatley Defiance, their swords will bounce off of him or break. I could be mistaken but i cant remember reading all of the DMC swords are unbreakable, its fair to assume Spardas sword is indestructable but a lot of the other weapons wielded by Dante and would not seem indestructablr, although its probably strong Vergils Yamato blade is a thin weapon, it wont last indefinatley with the reaver smashing against it, which is an indestructable weapon especially since it hits with the force to blast a person into pieces, a sword that thin would not last too long.

Kain escapes the Hylden hell when Raziel sends him into it, also id like to see them try and seal kain in hell, infact hell is not said to be in this match, we dont know the battlefield their in, regardless they would not be able to get him in there and then have enough time to keep him in while they seal it.

(thx debel, done all of em except the last vergil now smile

i hear he is a tough one indeed)
Kain is indestructible???
Since when???
Kain could only escape because he found a portal....

Charlotte DeBel

He meant Reaver is almost indestructable (which is true, but the same can be said about demonically forged blades from Sparda family arsenal), not Kain. At least that's how I understood that post.

I agree about Reaver being a great weapon and think it should be taken as a trophy after sealing Kain into deep dark Hell.

Burning thought

the reaver is completly indestructable as said i thik it was in Soul reaver 2 and in soul reaver 1. Kain is indestructable to all but the reaver as said in Defiance and soul reaver 2 but even that did not kill him so its debatable wether anything can kill kain at all or what parameters have to be met for kain to die from the reaver

further examples of his endurance is the Elder God not being able to beat him, the Elder God may be a mass of eyes and tentacles but it seems to span the entirety of Nosgoth in size and each tentacle can slash through tonnes of rock like a hot knife through butter and can launch blasts of energy from its eyes, not to menstion its tentacles regenerate when cut

(also i completed the game and killed 100 demons at the end, it said a load of costumes are available and so is Vergil but for some reason i cannot select vergil, i can select shirtless dante, dante with sparda sword but i cannot select vergil, am i doing something wrong or can he be accessed another way?)

Charlotte DeBel

Do you play second edition or the first version of DMC3?

Burning thought

the one that says Special edition on it, on PC, the one where you get to fight jester

Burning thought

hmm okie ill try starting a new game, i just thought it would be in the costume selecter

Nikkolas

The Soul Reaver is not indestructible.

William the Just's was destroyed you remember.

It merely took another Soul Reaver and time being ****ed up to break it.

So...no biggie. smile

Charlotte DeBel

Costume selector only allows you to choise costumes for one said character.

Burning thought

well its indestructable during normal means, ofc two soul reavers would f*** up time and they broke, same when Kain tried to hit Raziel, but the blade itself is indestructable unless a screwy event happens

(and yeh i see now, now ime playing as Vergil, take some getting used to since Dante fights a bit diffrently)

yes DMC 3 was a good game, plenty of fighting and action, although the story and perhaps graphics of Defiance are better, the action in DMC 3 is far greater and the gameplay is more interesting with so many bosses and items to get. However Kain undoubtably solos this match, and with his allies with him its total pwnage, perhaps kain alone would be much better fight, kain VS DMC characters only without the ladies, perhaps we could have Lady with Kaliena Anne, Trish with Spiral or nightmare/artemis in an invincible bunker to add support.

Charlotte DeBel

William the Just's SoulReaver also shows that Kain isn't the only possible wielder for that weapon, so taking this useful and powerful thing as trophy after banishing Kain to the deepest level of Hell and letting him to search for an exit portal for as long as he wishes.

Girls can fullfil either snipers or cheerleaders role but the actual fight is for men...or male demons, as you wish.

Also I don't think that graphics in Defiance is better.

Nikkolas

Kain is the only chosen wielder for the Soul Reaver, though. Raziel trapped himself in the blade for Kain and to defeat the Elder God. If the sword was stolen by comeone, it might revert back to its original "dark" form such as we see in the original Blood Omen.

Charlotte DeBel

There's a theory that after Elder God died, the purpose of sword was fulfilled on half. But to allow "sentient" Reaver at least obey basic commands user needs two things:
a)mystical powers (sword won't work with regular humans)
b)really strong will

But that's just a theory.

Burning thought

i think king william had the nexus stone to protect him from the reaver, its debatable wether his reaver was the same one that had Raziels soul as it is at the end of defiance, what we do know is that the Reaver kain has in defiance at the end is diffrent from all the reavers in the other games because of their time mingling and we also know the reaver is intelligent, so perhaps a spell was used to enslave the reaver, either that or william had the nexus stone, what we do know is that Raziel is no friend of william and that he would not allow himself to be wielded by any human. Perhaps thats why Williams reaver shattered when Kain attacked because its usless if anyone other than kain uses it. There are two reavers afterall.

Nikkolas

The Soul Reaver Kain wields at the end of Defiance has the benefit of the Balance Emblem added to it before Raziel merges with it. I don't believe that originally happened as Kain was supposed to be dead at this point.

Also when Raziel got the Spirit Reaver, it "purified" the blade and Kain.

Thus, the Soul Reaver Kain wields is the "Purified" Soul Reaver.

In Blood Omen, the blade was chaotic and Raziel's spirit, which had been trapped in it for centuries, had gone completely mad.

The Soul Reaver William wielded came from somewhere...some place in time no one is quite sure of. All the time screwery in the games makes it confusing how the blade got where it did because things and timelines and events are constantly shifting around. Everything in Blood Omen 2 never happened. Same for Defiance. The "original" timeline was something else entirely.

Burning thought

i wish they would make another game or at least sum the story up in another way like a book or story if they cannot aford the game, all the ideas and script on the story excist so why cant they jsut release it if their not going to mkae another game

i mean it says that mobius brings William some items from the future, probably the reaver, but theres no way willium can wield the soul reaver, not as a human, william probably had either the nexus stone or an artifact or the reaver he had was mad/weakened but the purified weapon kain wields in defiance is not the same for sure. atm ime reading through Q/A with the developers to see if they answer thingsl ike this but so far no luck.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
WTF???
You really over rate Sarafan Lord also they can easily send back raziel to the spectal realm janos/Hylden has oneshoted him with ease. nosgoth crushes them. the sarafanlord is someone not to be taken lightly. kain is unreal in combat abilities and toughness. while raziel will take some souls here and there. all u need is kain,sarafanlord, and raziel. this trio would layeth the beatdown of all beatdowns on dante and his pals.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Burning thought
i wish they would make another game or at least sum the story up in another way like a book or story if they cannot aford the game, all the ideas and script on the story excist so why cant they jsut release it if their not going to mkae another game

i mean it says that mobius brings William some items from the future, probably the reaver, but theres no way willium can wield the soul reaver, not as a human, william probably had either the nexus stone or an artifact or the reaver he had was mad/weakened but the purified weapon kain wields in defiance is not the same for sure. atm ime reading through Q/A with the developers to see if they answer thingsl ike this but so far no luck. do u think they will ever make a game again. are there any talks underway. i havent played a video game in close to a year now and dont read game informer anymore. so im outta the loop.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
That's all you got?
He can move blurry so he is fast enough to keep up with Dante and Vergil?haermm no one has any guns in the legacy of kain games. but come on think about the abilities that kain has. he can turn into mist form and remain untouched. hes had his heart ripped out and was unconscious for a bit. hes one tough vampire. i dont see that level of toughness in dante or anyone for that matter in dmc. kain has more mental resolve as well as he had to time travel the shit outta himself to change his world. the patience and the tact he used was flawless. hes been in much dire situations than dante who just shows up with just shoots his way to the end. kains twice the think and has to many abilities for any devil mode to save him from kain.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Sealing him in hell is really good idea. He deserves that...there, in hell, he can be immortal for as long as he wishes-nobody would care smile

elder god also tried sealing off kain. do u know how that turned out. while dante can be one fancy sonof a ***** he doesnt have the toughness required to kill a guy all of nosgoth basically couldnt kill for about 5 games. kain is always one step ahead and with this dante he would be four or five moves ahead of this kid. kain teleports right behind him when he wants to end this charade.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
laughing

Charlotte DeBel

Kain is a warlord, not a warrior. He's good strategist, but has never shown anything that uber in terms of actual combat. Look at his combos in Defiance- pathetic slashing with sword and nothing graceful or skillful. Nothing "unreal" about it. Soul Reaver is a powerful weapon, but that's power of sword, not swordsman.
Those four moves with sword, which are nothing that Dante or his brother or their father can't do better.

Charlotte DeBel

And stop overrating Sarafans. They are just humans with some mystical abilities, but still humans in terms of everything except using some spells and encharmed weapons.
Dante fases much more serious competition...Kain's better as a warlord, not as a warrior.

Nikkolas

Kain has his own Dark Gifts like teleportation and Mist. Plus he showed some sort of energy blast in the beginning of SR2 which retold the ending of SR1.

Kain has fought many demons and supernatural being sin his time.

Wading through demon-filled Avernus or the abominations of Dark Eden was not a walk in the park.

Also he took on spectral guards and monsters in BO2.

He might not be the best warrior ever but he's a competent enough fighter with a variety of powers.

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
nosgoth crushes them. the sarafanlord is someone not to be taken lightly. kain is unreal in combat abilities and toughness. while raziel will take some souls here and there. all u need is kain,sarafanlord, and raziel. this trio would layeth the beatdown of all beatdowns on dante and his pals.
Dante or Vergil would kill the Sarafan Lord in less then 5 minutes.Also the fighting system/combos of LOK compared to DMC is pathetic.

Charlotte DeBel

Kain has a lot of abilities, but he use all of them in the way which is not creative and easy to predict.

As for combat teleportation...both Dante and Vergil posess the same ability.

Charlotte DeBel

Originally posted by Estacado
Dante or Vergil would kill the Sarafan Lord in less then 5 minutes.Also the fighting system/combos of LOK compared to DMC is pathetic.

I've already stated that Kain fanboys overrate that simple "fighting style" Kain uses as hell. He has great sword, but fights with it in such a moronic way...just 4 simple moves. The blurry afterimage of a sword means nothing in terms of skills.
He didn't do anything in terms of swordfighting that Dante or Vergil can't do better and mor creative

Burning thought

its because its all gameplay, sure their his moves but that doesnt mean thats all he can do with his sword is it, and what moves do Dante and Vergil show thats so impressive anyway?...stinger...simply lunging forward..no skill at all...what other ones...hmmm, nope not many are there, drive is simply slashing upwards all the rest of the time their only countering eachothers moves when they hit their weapons together, the boys dont show that many great of swordsmanship. Blurry sword aftermath is a show of speed, when he swings his two hander it always blurs because its moving extremely quickly, the boys never do anything like that, the most they do is create that bubble that stops the rain for a few seconds when they clash swords.

Sarafan lord down in 5 minutes? rofl......

also the Sarafan are no pushovers, yes their human but they wield glyth energy which is created to be extremely potent against vampires as well as their armour being enchanted powerfully....their far greater than the things dante has to fight, possesed maronettes?, pathetic slow sand demons that get trashed by snooker balls as well as a Fan falling on them, the only things dante fights worthy at all is perhaps the bosses

also since completing the game yesterday ive seen that Time control is either not in Dantes power constantly or is extremely limited as well as Dantes resistence to soul stealing is miniscule and gets severely weakened from that object jsut by holding it, hes not going to last long if the reaver gets stuck in him. Most of the combat in DMC is very flashy and i agree the combos beat LOK defiance easily, the style is far more fun to play but they do not fight much greater than an enchanced human or a normal vampire like Sebastion in BO 2, their moves although some are quick especialyl Vergil would not be enough to overwhelm kain to an extent he cannot fight back.

Kain can still solo this alone, their blades would bounce off of him as he triggers inspire hate then teleport behind Dante and impale him while in this maddened rage to kill his brother killing him or decapitating him and then sticking the blade in him to restore its power, then Vergil will instantly flash forwards and do his yamato..his sword stops on kains chest who freeze him in TK shackles then impales/decapitates vergil, then thats the brothers dead and kain has fully powered reaver to destroy the rest of his enemies, Mundus would be easy meat, the thing is so slow its unbelivable and its powers are nothing too impressive, Mundus would fall to a combination of Raziel and Kains reaver spells.

Kain could trigger his dimension reaver and take both of the brothers with dmension enhanced slashes through their boddies cleaving them in two and then feed the reaver on their souls to restore it and continue to soul blast his next enemy.

Estacado

How about Sparda uses that huge ass dragon from DMC 1 to trash Kain?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayn7r0JD4eg

Burning thought

it would not kill him, even if it disintegrated him he would reform, not to menstion that dragon took some charging up to cast, also its not that fast. Kain could teleport directly behind sparder as he casts it and imapale him, it takes a few seconds to fire the thing. Kain could also TK shackle him so he cannot cast anything.

Estacado

Originally posted by Burning thought
it would not kill him, even if it disintegrated him he would reform, not to menstion that dragon took some charging up to cast, also its not that fast. Kain could teleport directly behind sparder as he casts it and imapale him, it takes a few seconds to fire the thing. Kain could also TK shackle him so he cannot cast anything.
Off course I forgot nothing can Ko Kain..haermm
This is so ****ing ridiculous the Sarafan Lord Ko'd him for 250 years Raziel easily Ko'd him with a TK blast.Yet in your opinion he is completely invulnerable nothing can hurt him and he can solo all of the DMC team with ease.

I think I'm gonna ask Lana to close this thread your level of fanboyism is so ridicolous it's unbelievable.

Charlotte DeBel

Or Dante taking his high demonic form (Super Sparda form) to help his dad in doing that?

Also the thing is that marble snooker balls most probably weren't regular ones since they jusr speeded up from shot instead of breaking into pieces.
Of course, Dante charges his guns with demonic energy so he can regulate the strength of shots, but still... also that's a creative usage of environment. Snooker balls, fan, bike- Dante is creative and follows the ancient Chinese idea that everything can be weapon in hands of true warrior. When did Kain used anything creative when fighting anyone? I haven't seen that neither in gameplay nor in cutscenes in all LoK games.
Also the thing with snooker balls and fan shows Dante's extreme accuracy and quick thinking in combat- nothing of that improvised weaponry missed its targets.

And Sarafans were just regular human warriors- only equipped with magic against vampires. A regular human with a teakwood dagger (or against LoKverse vampires- water pistol) can kill a vampire with some training and luck- that doesn't make him godlike or what.
Also antivampire magic is good only against vampires, not against demons, I think.

Burning thought

Originally posted by Estacado
Off course I forgot nothing can Ko Kain..haermm
This is so ****ing ridiculous the Sarafan Lord Ko'd him for 250 years Raziel easily Ko'd him with a TK blast.Yet in your opinion he is completely invulnerable nothing can hurt him and he can solo all of the DMC team with ease.

I think I'm gonna ask Lana to close this thread your level of fanboyism is so ridicolous it's unbelievable.

when he battled sarafan lord he was young vampire not elder vampire, and play Defiance again, he was Koed for about an hour after having his heart torn out as an elder vampire and then Raziel cast a Tk blast of such power it broke a hole through dimensions into the Demon world...as said by either Amy or Chris creators of Kain.....

since Kain now has no heart nor do any of the brothers have the power to smash someone through dimensions its because of you this thread should be closed, at least Debel is coming up with good ideas and arguments however you... roll eyes (sarcastic)

i think the magic affects demons also, in Blood omen 2 Demons cannot pass through the magic barriers

they were not regular, they were trained soldiers powered by hylden magic who were like dark gods much like Kain, although not as powerful as kain, the Hylden released the demons into the world. Kain fights many demons in his time as well, however Sarafan knight>>>Sand demon, regardless of dantes creativeness at knokcing a fan down a sarafan knight would not be smashed on the floor by a falling fan laughing out loud

and Kain battled Sarafan knights whe he was young kain not Elder, canon speaking Kain doesnt really fight Sarafan much in Defiance, none of them can harm him and he cna destroy them with ease, throwing them around like playthings.