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let's say that there are two LT's. The current one and the pre retconned LT.


Classic Molecule man was supposed to be far more powerful than the LT. For some reason people assume that the feats of the current lt count as a standard to gage the classic molecule mans powers. But The classic Molecule man couldn't bring back death, where as the Current LT holds mega verses in his hand and was able to in one wave, bring back every abstract that Worlock destroyed.

So is this even a fight? Or was molecule man and thus the classic beyonder both superior to a far inferior LT?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
let's say that there are two LT's. The current one and the pre retconned LT.


Classic Molecule man was supposed to be far more powerful than the LT. For some reason people assume that the feats of the current lt count as a standard to gage the classic molecule mans powers. But The classic Molecule man couldn't bring back death, where as the Current LT holds mega verses in his hand and was able to in one wave, bring back every abstract that Worlock destroyed.

So is this even a fight? Or was molecule man and thus the classic beyonder both superior to a far inferior LT?

Secret Wars was '85. This is '07

Living Tribunal

I agree with guy222...

Back during the SW era, LT's greatest feat was what? Making a star go nova, and sealing off one Universe?


The LT of nowadays holds multiple Megaverses in the palm of his hand..


LT ftw.

lt wins this.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
let's say that there are two LT's. The current one and the pre retconned LT.

So we should fantasized outside of Marvel with Marvel characters?

Because to my knowledge, the LT has NEVER been retconned.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Classic Molecule man was supposed to be far more powerful than the LT.

Correct.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
For some reason people assume that the feats of the current lt count as a standard to gage the classic molecule mans powers. But The classic Molecule man couldn't bring back death,

The LT wasn't able to bring back Death either.

No one was able to bring back Death, except for the Beyonder.

Beyonder >>> ALL of Marvel x Millions.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
where as the Current LT holds mega verses in his hand

Very impressive indeed.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and was able to in one wave, bring back every abstract that Worlock destroyed.

The LT nullified Warlock's attack,
thus re-creating the Abstract M-bodys as though nothing happened.

But the Concepts they represent were NEVER affected.

The Beyonder on the other hand ERASED the actual Concept of Death across ALL of Marvel.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So is this even a fight? Or was molecule man and thus the classic beyonder both superior to a far inferior LT?

So again,

when you provide the on panel or bio proof stating or alluding to the idea
that the LT was retconned ... we'll proceed.

Cause right now you're blowing smoke out your ass.

Originally posted by Merlyn
Back during the SW era, LT's greatest feat was what? Making a star go nova, and sealing off one Universe?

The LT was the most powerful entity in the Multiverse behind only the Molecule Man.

Originally posted by Merlyn
The LT of nowadays holds multiple Megaverses in the palm of his hand..

Molecule Man blocked and controlled the full power of the Beyonder.

Beyonder >>> ALL of Marvel x Millions.

In 72' ALL of Canon Marvel was a Universe.

In 85' ALL of canon Marvel was a Multiverse.

In 07' ALL of canon Marvel is an Omniverse.


At Marvel.com there is no difference between any of these scales.

Sis-Neg (1972) is credited with re-creating the SAME Marvel Universe,

Genis & Entroy re-created in (2002)
THOTI re-created in (2003)
The Alien and Reed re-created in (2006)

Originally posted by Merlyn
LT ftw.

Since the LT has never been retconned.

Classic MM ftw.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So we should fantasized outside of Marvel with Marvel characters?

Because to my knowledge, the LT has NEVER been retconned.



Correct.



The LT wasn't able to bring back Death either.

No one was able to bring back Death, except for the Beyonder.

Beyonder >>> ALL of Marvel x Millions.



Very impressive indeed.



The LT nullified Warlock's attack,
thus re-creating the Abstract M-bodys as though nothing happened.

But the Concepts they represent were NEVER affected.

The Beyonder on the other hand ERASED the actual Concept of Death across ALL of Marvel.



So again,

when you provide the on panel or bio proof stating or alluding to the idea
that the LT was retconned ... we'll proceed.

Cause right now you're blowing smoke out your ass.


Well, you say Beyonder was the only one capable of bringing back Death. I assume TOAA could bring back Death also....I assume you didn't mention that because it would be understood.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The LT was the most powerful entity in the Multiverse behind only the Molecule Man.



Molecule Man blocked and controlled the full power of the Beyonder.

Beyonder >>> ALL of Marvel x Millions.

In 72' ALL of Canon Marvel was a Universe.

In 85' ALL of canon Marvel was a Multiverse.

In 07' ALL of canon Marvel is an Omniverse.


At Marvel.com there is no difference between any of these scales.

Sis-Neg (1972) is credited with re-creating the SAME Marvel Universe,

Genis & Entroy re-created in (2002)
THOTI re-created in (2003)
The Alien and Reed re-created in (2006)



Since the LT has never been retconned.

Classic MM ftw.

The LT was retconned the 2nd the classic beyonder was. nice try. Unless of course you think the Lt cannot destroy any abstract it deems or recreate them? It would seem as if you are correct and that Lt is realy weak then. not being able to bring back death, not being able to kill korvak, not being able to fix the universal flaw. I like to think the Lt can do all of these things, and for the sake of story, didn't. Now which is it? is the Lt still a weak ***** like he was in 85 or is he 2nd only to God? I can't see a being 2nd only to God not being able to bring back death.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The LT was retconned the 2nd the classic beyonder was. nice try. Unless of course you think the Lt cannot destroy any abstract it deems or recreate them? It would seem as if you are correct and that Lt is realy weak then. not being able to bring back death, not being able to kill korvak, not being able to fix the universal flaw. I like to think the Lt can do all of these things, and for the sake of story, didn't. Now which is it? is the Lt still a weak ***** like he was in 85 or is he 2nd only to God? I can't see a being 2nd only to God not being able to bring back death. vcant u see things change in comics. lt is second to god. ds loses to superman now as before he was witen more powerful. things change. or havent u noticed.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
Well, you say Beyonder was the only one capable of bringing back Death. I assume TOAA could bring back Death also....I assume you didn't mention that because it would be understood.

Correct.

TOAA/God are not even part of my hierarchy anymore.

because they are beyond that.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The LT was retconned the 2nd the classic beyonder was. nice try.



As usual, unsupported emprty wind blowing out of your ass.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Unless of course you think the Lt cannot destroy any abstract it deems or recreate them?

I'm sure he can.

But not the nullification Beyonder put on Death.

Beyonder's nullification was so absolute,
only he was capable of bringing back the Concept of Death.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It would seem as if you are correct and that Lt is realy weak then.

I never said the LT is weak.

Nice try with the continuous bullshit

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
not being able to bring back death,

Not able to bring back a nullified Concept at the hands of the Beyonder.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
not being able to kill korvak,

Who was coincidentaly helped by Death.

And the LT NEVER directly attacked Korvac with his own power.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
not being able to fix the universal flaw.

Because only THOTI was able to fix it.

THOTI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LT

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I like to think the Lt can do all of these things, and for the sake of story, didn't. Now which is it? is the Lt still a weak ***** like he was in 85 or is he 2nd only to God? I can't see a being 2nd only to God not being able to bring back death.

The LT has never been weak. (he's always been second to TOAA)

It's just that the LT was weaker than MM and Beyonder, who were anomalies of supreme power.

This is why MM & Beyonder were retconned.

Originally posted by Mr Master


As usual, unsupported emprty wind blowing out of your ass.



I'm sure he can.

But not the nullification Beyonder put on Death.

Beyonder's nullification was so absolute,
only he was capable of bringing back the Concept of Death.



I never said the LT is weak.

Nice try with the continuous bullshit



Not able to bring back a nullified Concept at the hands of the Beyonder.



Who was coincidentaly helped by Death.

And the LT NEVER directly attacked Korvac with his own power.



Because only THOTI was able to fix it.

THOTI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LT



The LT has never been weak. (he's always been second to TOAA)

It's just that the LT was weaker than MM and Beyonder, who were anomalies of supreme power.

This is why MM & Beyonder were retconned.

the molecule man nor the beyonder are any more poweful than Mr. mxy and I don't see mxy beating the LT. Now, mxy can recreate any of the abstracts he wishes down to the concept. is he more powerful than the LT? If you dont' think so, check how he creates morpheous and his "boring" powers just to beat the ultimator. now. is this Lt so weak that he cannot destroy or recreate death if mxy destroys her very concept?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
the molecule man nor the beyonder are any more poweful than Mr. mxy and I don't see mxy beating the LT. Now, mxy can recreate any of the abstracts he wishes down to the concept. is he more powerful than the LT? If you dont' think so, check how he creates morpheous and his "boring" powers just to beat the ultimator. now. is this Lt so weak that he cannot destroy or recreate death if mxy destroys her very concept? mxy got his chest blwon through by gog with ease. mm would laugh his ass off at that. mxy doesnt impress me than much. that showing makes him lok so bad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This poster is on ignore.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
good this is prolly for the best. i dont want to annoy u buit it seems u cant bottle it in any longer. keep me on ignore if it makes u feel better. just cool down. no wrries. i just think gog shooting thorugh mxys chest makes him look really bad.

Current and Old LT... There's no difference. MM>>>>>>LT.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Current and Old LT... There's no difference. MM>>>>>>LT.

Rediculous. what feats do classic Mm have that come anwhere near current LT. Classic MM couldn't even rez death. and he has no megaversal or Omniversal feats. nuff said.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Current and Old LT... There's no difference. MM>>>>>>LT. whoa. no way is mm beating the current lt.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Rediculous. what feats do classic Mm have that come anwhere near current LT. Classic MM couldn't even rez death. and he has no megaversal or Omniversal feats. nuff said.
He doesn't need new feats because current LT is THE SAME AS BEFORE!

Originally posted by King Kandy
He doesn't need new feats because current LT is THE SAME AS BEFORE! he was written weaker back then, currently he is second to god.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He doesn't need new feats because current LT is THE SAME AS BEFORE!

Um sorry. In 85 the LT never held megaverses in his hand and never pwned the IG that I'm aware of . he also never sat as judge and jury over the omniverse. the LT is NOT the same as before.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um sorry. In 85 the LT never held megaverses in his hand and never pwned the IG that I'm aware of . he also never sat as judge and jury over the omniverse. the LT is NOT the same as before. while i agree with u this once i still think mm could defeat mr mxy for sure.

Originally posted by quanchi112
he was written weaker back then, currently he is second to god.

LT was always second to God though.

But the MM and Beyonder were special cases evidently.


It was MM and Beyonder that were affected by a retcon.
The LT stayed the same.


Now current LT >>> current Beyonder or MM.

since the story was all an illusion, the Lt was affected by the retcon as well. nice try.

Originally posted by Mr Master
LT was always second to God though.

But the MM and Beyonder were special cases evidently.


It was MM and Beyonder that were affected by a retcon.
The LT stayed the same.


Now current LT >>> current Beyonder or MM. but if he could get beaten by beyonder then he wasnt second to god as he is now. when these characters came into their own back in the day they obvioulsy changed the hierarchy. now its back to normal with lt being second.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
what feats do classic Mm have that come anwhere near current LT.

Well when ALL of Marvel was in jeopardy in Marvel: the End,
the LT was unable to do anything about it.


When ALL of Marvel was in jeopardy in Secret Wars,
MM saved all of existence by himself.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Classic MM couldn't even rez death.

Again with this? bangin

Neither was the LT, nor anyone else for that matter.

Again obtuse one,

the Beyonder nullified Death with much of his power,
NO ONE except for himself was capable of bringing Death back.


Beyonder >>>>>>> ALL of Marvel x Millions.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and he has no megaversal or Omniversal feats. nuff said.

There was no Megaverse or Omniverse back then.

But MM was more powerful than ALL of Marvel at the time.

In 1985 all of Marvel = a Multiverse

In 2007 all of Marvel = an Omniverse

All of Marvel is ALL of Marvel, regardless of the era.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well when ALL of Marvel was in jeopardy in Marvel: the End,
the LT was unable to do anything about it.


When ALL of Marvel was in jeopardy in Secret Wars,
MM saved all of existence by himself.



Again with this? bangin

Neither was the LT, nor anyone else for that matter.

Again obtuse one,

the Beyonder nullified Death with much of his power,
NO ONE except for himself was capable of bringing Death back.


Beyonder >>>>>>> ALL of Marvel x Millions.



There was no Megaverse or Omniverse back then.

But MM was more powerful than ALL of Marvel at the time.

In 1985 all of Marvel + a Multiverse

In 2007 all of Marvel = an Omniverse

All of Marvel is ALL of Marvel, regardless of the era. nice ownage.

Originally posted by quanchi112
but if he could get beaten by beyonder then he wasnt second to god as he is now. when these characters came into their own back in the day they obvioulsy changed the hierarchy. now its back to normal with lt being second.

This is why the Beyonder and MM were retconned.

Because they were too powerful.

The Beyonder was created & written by Jim Shooter who was Editor in-chief of Marvel at the time.

It was God/Toaa that created Beyonder to be more powerful than anything in Marvel.
And God/Toaa can do anything they want, even pwn their #2 with other characters.

Just like God/Toaa created THOTI to be >>> LT

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is why the Beyonder and MM were retconned.

Because they were too powerful.

The Beyonder was created & written by Jim Shooter who was Editor in-chief of Marvel at the time.

It was God/Toaa that created Beyonder to be more powerful than anything in Marvel.
And God/Toaa can do anything they want, even pwn their #2 with other characters.

Just like God/Toaa created THOTI to be >>> LT yeah but traditionally lt is number 2. beyinder and mm has their moments in the sun and were the big threats but have been retconned down. now until further notice thanos with the heart is the most powerful being we have ever seen.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
since the story was all an illusion,

The story was NEVER an illusion.

In the 2006 Handbooks Beyonder is STILL credited with erasing Death (it was retconned to Universal)

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
the Lt was affected by the retcon as well.

Bull shit

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
nice try.

Read comics before debating please.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The story was NEVER an illusion.

In the 2006 Handbooks Beyonder is STILL credited with erasing Death (it was retconned to Universal)



Bull shit



Read comics before debating please.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Current and Old LT... There's no difference. MM>>>>>>LT. But there are huge differences in their feats, .



However,

The instance I think about when it comes to MM isn't the "controlling Beyonder's energy" feat, but rather this...


One of MM's attacks on Beyonder could have...

"Slagged several billion ENTIRE Dimensions (Universes)":

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3899/mmnx9.th.jpg



The thing that amazes me about this, is that MM's incredible blast didn't harm his apartment in the slightest. So he was obviously greatly limiting/controlling his power.... And the blast was still that powerful..


No ask yourself this,

What could MM do if he just didn't care?

Originally posted by Galan007
One of MM's attacks on Beyonder could have...

"Slagged several billion ENTIRE Dimensions (Universes)":

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3899/mmnx9.th.jpg



The thing that amazes me about this, is that MM's incredible blast didn't harm his apartment in the slightest. So he was obviously greatly limiting/controlling his power.... And the blast was still that powerful..


No ask yourself this,

What could MM do if he just didn't care?

Sound logic.

This is another feat by MM:




Beyonder causes destruction across the Entire Multiverse:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5815/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiversesf2.th.jpg




Molecule Man repairs the Multiverse with one finger
while simultaneously calming the Beyonder down:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5429/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiverse2gv0.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is another feat by MM:




Beyonder causes destruction across the Entire Multiverse:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5815/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiversesf2.th.jpg




Molecule Man repairs the Multiverse with one finger
while simultaneously calming the Beyonder down:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5429/beyonderdestructionacrossmultiverse2gv0.th.jpg [/QUOTE mm would totally tear into mxy. he would get crushed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
mm would totally tear into mxy. he would get crushed. And Marvel is better then DC..... We all get it.

Originally posted by Galan007
And Marvel is better then DC..... We all get it. no but its simple. marvel characters the bigtime ones have more feats. its the way it is. dc doesnt have the bigtime crossovers like marvel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
no but its simple. marvel characters the bigtime ones have more feats. its the way it is. dc doesnt have the bigtime crossovers like marvel. But Beyonder/MM were retconned.

So everything they did back then is a moot point in comics nowadays.

Originally posted by quanchi112
dc doesnt have the bigtime crossovers like marvel.
CoIE?

Originally posted by King Kandy
CoIE? its nothing to infinity gauntlet. marvels crossovers are bigger and involve all the cosmic heavyweights not just a few here and there.

Originally posted by quanchi112
its nothing to infinity gauntlet. marvels crossovers are bigger and involve all the cosmic heavyweights not just a few here and there.

COIE = the death of a Multiverse.

The IG saga = What? A Universal problem at the time?


Yet you say the IG saga left more of an impact?

Okie dokie.

Originally posted by Merlyn


COIE = the death of a Multiverse.

The IG saga = What? A Universal problem at the time?


Yet you say the IG saga left more of an impact?

Okie dokie. the heavyweights involved in ig would utterly smash the heavyweights in coie. smash and crush. its not even a contest. you see in marvel crossovers u dont have one charcater like superman always having a huge impact on the event, hes to small time to play an important factor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
the heavyweights involved in ig would utterly smash the heavyweights in coie. smash and crush. its not even a contest. you see in marvel crossovers u dont have one charcater like superman always having a huge impact on the event, hes to small time to play an important factor.

I thought the heavy weights in COIE were the Monitor, The AM, The Phantom Stranger, The Spectre, and all those skyfather mages. Is there another COIE I missed where Superman actually did something important?

Originally posted by TheEyesoGOD
I thought the heavy weights in COIE were the Monitor, The AM, The Phantom Stranger, The Spectre, and all those skyfather mages. Is there another COIE I missed where Superman actually did something important? did u miss him killing am? yep supes delivered the killing stroke. i always consider that of some importance dont you?