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Ok,

Earth's gone to hell, and the Sinestro Corps has all but taken over, with only a few heroes as the last line of defence...

Superboy Prime strolls through the Titans, and comes to face with the big boys...

Superman stands before him, as sundipped as his body will allow... he has to take down Superboy Prime or the world is done for... how many of the following people will he need, or does he need any/all of them? and how can they take down prime?

Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Captain Marvel
Hourman
Liberty Belle
Powergirl
Supergirl
Mary Marvel (circa Countdown)

As before,

Match 1: Comic PIS...
Match 2: Bloodlust...

Is this the human Hourman or the android Hourman?

Mary's hot, she will help.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Is this the human Hourman or the android Hourman?

the current one... i assume he's human...

Originally posted by pr1983
the current one... i assume he's human... SBP ftw then.

sbp wins.

Originally posted by Galan007
SBP ftw then.

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp wins.

against everyone?

Originally posted by pr1983
against everyone? indeed. sbp is a badass. the bodies start hitting the floor.

Originally posted by pr1983
against everyone? Yeah...

Superman is the biggest problem.

Originally posted by pr1983
Superman stands before him, as sundipped as his body will allow...
this being said, i think Superman can solo SBP

Originally posted by quanchi112
indeed. sbp is a badass. the bodies start hitting the floor.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah...

Superman is the biggest problem.

ok, so who would you add to get the job done? and GL's can't be included...

Originally posted by Priest
this being said, i think Superman can solo SBP

as do i, but we're clearly in the minority...

Originally posted by Priest
this being said, i think Superman can solo SBP no way. sbp would still lay into superman.

Originally posted by pr1983
as do i, but we're clearly in the minority...
*hides from the majority*
.........
Seriously tho, with a limited amount of sundipping Superman owned Darkseid.
SBP hasn't beaten no one as powerful as DS..the only thing he did was pawn a few titans

Originally posted by quanchi112
no way. sbp would still lay into superman.

then who can take down prime?

Originally posted by Priest
*hides from the majority*
.........
Seriously tho, with a limited amount of sundipping Superman owned Darkseid.
SBP hasn't beaten no one as powerful as DS..the only thing he did was pawn a few titans

not loeb, tell me you're not using loeb...


honestly though, i read infinite crisis (and several of the preceeding stories), and to be honestly honest, prime just always struck me as a young, out of control superman... powerful yes, but by no means unbeatable...

Originally posted by pr1983

not loeb, tell me you're not using loeb...
heh, i dont know too many instances that superman was sundipped, that was the only example of the top of my head,

Originally posted by pr1983
honestly though, i read infinite crisis (and several of the preceeding stories), and to be honestly honest, prime just always struck me as a young, out of control superman... powerful yes, but by no means unbeatable...
Uncontrollable? ...He was just a EMO!

Originally posted by Priest
Uncontrollable? ...He was just a EMO!

Originally posted by Priest
*hides from the majority*
.........
Seriously tho, with a limited amount of sundipping Superman owned Darkseid.
SBP hasn't beaten no one as powerful as DS..the only thing he did was pawn a few titans sbp never met darkseid, im sure he would beat him. look at what he did. it took lots of backup to beat him. superboy died along with an alternate superman died in the process.

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp never met darkseid, im sure he would beat him. look at what he did. it took lots of backup to beat him. superboy died along with an alternate superman died in the process.
in the end it took one Superman(weakned by K-Nite) to shut Prime up.

Originally posted by Priest
in the end it took one Superman(weakned by K-Nite) to shut Prime up. But SBP was weak too.

Originally posted by Galan007
But SBP was weak too.
not by the Knite...

Originally posted by Priest
in the end it took one Superman(weakned by K-Nite) to shut Prime up. dont u realize they had to depower sbp to stand a chance. did u see the forces sbp was steamrolling through before he was stopped.

Originally posted by Priest
not by the Knite... No...

But the speedforce dump, battle with all those GL's, and trip through a red sun, may have weakened him a bit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
dont u realize they had to depower sbp to stand a chance. did u see the forces sbp was steamrolling through before he was stopped.
E1 superman was "depowered" by both Knite AND Red sun radiation.
Prime was only "depowered" by Red Sun..
Superman was the better man.

Originally posted by Priest
E1 superman was "depowered" by both Knite AND Red sun radiation.
Prime was only "depowered" by Red Sun..
Superman was the better man. did u not realize it was 2 on one. was it just one superman vs sbp. nope.

get ur facts straight.

Originally posted by Galan007
No...
?

Originally posted by Galan007
But the speedforce dump, battle with all those GL's, and trip through a red sun, may have weakened him a bit.
tru, that, but Clark fly through Knite, and fight around it as well(even got staight hit in the face with it), and still managed the win.

Originally posted by Priest
tru, that, but Clark fly through Knite, and fight around it as well(even got staight hit in the face with it), and still managed the win. Yep...

But remember, SBP was so weak that not even his HV was working.

Originally posted by Priest
?


tru, that, but Clark fly through Knite, and fight around it as well(even got staight hit in the face with it), and still managed the win. it was a huge effort vs sbop. cant u see this. was it just superman laying into him. hell no. i mean come on here. did u read this comic at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
did u not realize it was 2 on one. was it just one superman vs sbp. nope.

get ur facts straight.
E2 superman didn't do much other than help E1 fly SBP into the red sun..that fight itself E2 really diden't do much against prime..
Honestly if E2 was his younger self he would solo SBP.
E1 pawnd Prime accept it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
it was a huge effort vs sbop. cant u see this. was it just superman laying into him. hell no. i mean come on here. did u read this comic at all.
please Quanchi, u dont have to question if i read the comic or not ..frankly u should be that person on this forum to question anyone.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yep...

But remember, SBP was so weak that not even his HV was working.
tru, that, but im sure same same could go to same with the other Supermen..Look at E2, freaking PreCrisis superman got owned like no tomorrow, but of course we got to consider his age.

Originally posted by Priest
tru, that, but im sure same same could go to same with the other Supermen..Look at E2, freaking PreCrisis superman got owned like no tomorrow, but of course we got to consider his age. Pfft.

That old man never impressed me.

Originally posted by Priest
E2 superman didn't do much other than help E1 fly SBP into the red sun..that fight itself E2 really diden't do much against prime..
Honestly if E2 was his younger self he would solo SBP.
E1 pawnd Prime accept it. here we go now with the speculations. he couldn own him if he were younger. sbp was a powerhouse hence all the gl's that dies like nothing. and all the forces gathered to depower sbp. one supemran died while the other one with a ton of help beat a depowered sbp after he got done beating thr shit out of the alternate sbp. serioulsy sbp would stomp the shit out of him one one without being depowered down. superman got knocked out anyways.



the green lantners then stepped in and secured him while superman remained unconscious.

Originally posted by Galan007
Pfft.

That old man never impressed me.
he did stop DD in his tracks

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp never met darkseid, im sure he would beat him. look at what he did. it took lots of backup to beat him. superboy died along with an alternate superman died in the process.

i can't see Prime beating Darkseid if he's even half as strong as people claim he is...

Originally posted by quanchi112
the green lantners then stepped in and secured him while superman remained unconscious.

yes, they secured him, after prime had been beaten by the two supermen...

Originally posted by Priest
he did stop DD in his tracks He AND Kal-El. 313

Originally posted by Priest
he did stop DD in his tracks look at how superman passes out after he had help form the other crappy older supemran just to defeat sbp for the time being.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/26.jpg

proof shows u how taxed superman was with all the help he received.

poor guy was exhausted even with all the help he had against sbp.

Originally posted by pr1983
i can't see Prime beating Darkseid if he's even half as strong as people claim he is...
Why not? Superman beats DS all the time despite being less powerful than SBP.

WW disrobes; and then ties up SBP in the lasso. Done.

SBP FTW. 2 Phantom Zone breakout punches for every 1 on the list (if they can sustain even 1).
It might take 3 or 4 for sundipped Supes.

to say that sbp couldnt beat ds is ridicuolus. sbp is more than superman is...a lot more.

Originally posted by quanchi112
here we go now with the speculations. he couldn own him if he were younger.
yes he could read some silver age superman..or go to Galan's Pre Crisis Superman respect thread..Pre Crisis Superman would OWN Prime.

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp was a powerhouse hence all the gl's that dies like nothing.
The GL's wasent trying to kill him, they werent using "lethal" force for the most part of the fight..Shit im pretty sure Hal was able to hurt prime.

Originally posted by quanchi112
and all the forces gathered to depower sbp.
SuperBoy Prime was still stronger than Both E1, and E2 super man was depowered as well..Shit E1 was depowered both by knite and red sun.

Originally posted by quanchi112
one supemran died while the other one with a ton of help beat a depowered sbp after he got done beating thr shit out of the alternate sbp. serioulsy sbp would stomp the shit out of him one one without being depowered down. superman got knocked out anyways.
Jesus, the Super MEN was depowerd too...
E1(mainstreem Superman) was depowered by Knite AND red sun.

E2(pre crisis supermam) was powerd down due to his age, and was weakend by red Sun.

Originally posted by quanchi112
the green lantners then stepped in and secured him while superman remained unconscious.
Prime got KOed

Originally posted by Validus
Why not? Superman beats DS all the time despite being less powerful than SBP.

isn't superman beating DS usually PIS?

Originally posted by pr1983
isn't superman beating DS usually PIS? If consistency = PIS..... Then yes. lol

Originally posted by pr1983
isn't superman beating DS usually PIS? no. supes doesnt beat him all the time. its just that darkseid fans want to create that aura so no one brings it up. superman always beats more powerful characters. this is how dc rolls.

Originally posted by Galan007
If consistency = PIS..... Then yes. lol



so for the purpose of this fight, is superman>darkseid or the other way round?

Originally posted by quanchi112
look at how superman passes out after he had help form the other crappy older supemran just to defeat sbp for the time being.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/26.jpg

proof shows u how taxed superman was with all the help he received.

poor guy was exhausted even with all the help he had against sbp.
HELLO, Supeman is swimming in freaking KNITE, and still he managed to knock out Prime, all ur doing is helping my argument.

Originally posted by quanchi112
no. supes doesnt beat him all the time. its just that darkseid fans want to create that aura so no one brings it up. superman always beats more powerful characters. this is how dc rolls.

i know how dc 'rolls' especially when it comes to superman... do they or do they not write darkseid as being really powerful? how can they justify making him the bad guy of whatever the countdown is leading to if superman alone could take him?

Originally posted by pr1983
isn't superman beating DS usually PIS?
Not when DS is running around now trying to get power ups and whatnot before he comes back to Earth.

Even if you consider DS to be somewhat stronger than Superman it's clearly not to the same degree that Prime is above Supes.

Originally posted by pr1983


so for the purpose of this fight, is superman>darkseid or the other way round? Superman > DS

Sundipped Supes >>> DS

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman > DS

Sundipped Supes >>> DS
thats it, Nver is gonna go ape shit on u.

Originally posted by Priest
HELLO, Supeman is swimming in freaking KNITE, and still he managed to knock out Prime, all ur doing is helping my argument.
Are you arguing that human Kal can beat human Prime because thats all that fight is good for?

Originally posted by Priest
thats it, Nver is gonna go ape shit on u. When he has to be,

Superman > ALL.


Loosing to him isn't a low showing for ANY character in DC, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
When he has to be,

Superman > ALL.


Loosing to him isn't a low showing for ANY character in DC, imo.
That goes for every comic character. Just happens to Superman more often though.

Originally posted by Validus
That goes for every comic character. Just happens to Superman more often though. True lol.

Originally posted by Validus
Not when DS is running around now trying to get power ups and whatnot before he comes back to Earth.

Even if you consider DS to be somewhat stronger than Superman it's clearly not to the same degree that Prime is above Supes.

says you...

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman > DS

Sundipped Supes >>> DS

Originally posted by Validus
Are you arguing that human Kal can beat human Prime because thats all that fight is good for?
I don't think both were completely powerless.
both Prime and Superman both were hit by the dosage of Red Sun, but Kal had more stacked up against him.
....
Also im not arguing that E2 can take Prime on his lonesome, but I believe Superman sun-dippedOriginally posted by pr1983
Superman stands before him, as sundipped as his body will allow... ] can take care of him.

Originally posted by Galan007
When he has to be,

Superman > ALL.


Loosing to him isn't a low showing for ANY character in DC, imo. this is what makes dc ridiculous. utterly foolish.

Originally posted by Priest
I don't think both were completely powerless.
both Prime and Superman both were hit by the dosage of Red Sun, but Kal had more stacked up against him.
....
Also im not arguing that E2 can take Prime on his lonesome, but I believe Superman sun-dipped can take care of him.
We saw SBP's heat vision completely fade out when he tried it. I don't see how you can say he wasn't completely powerless at that point. If he weren't, the fight would have ended differently.

Sundipped Superman doesn't have anything to match SBP's Phantom Zone feat. He would win here with all the help provided, but one on one? I don't buy it especially because his powers would drain out over time.

Originally posted by Priest
HELLO, Supeman is swimming in freaking KNITE, and still he managed to knock out Prime, all ur doing is helping my argument. sbp jusy delivered a fatal blow to the other superman. it was two on one. i mean ur being utterly ridicuolus. why would the lanetrn corps call in reinforcements if all they needed was superman. why did anyone else come? ur argument makes no sense and superman passed out like the bich he was.

Originally posted by Validus
We saw SBP's heat vision completely fade out when he tried it. I don't see how you can say he wasn't completely powerless at that point. If he weren't, the fight would have ended differently. Point taken..
still tho Superman maximized sundiped should be enough to beat Prime.

Originally posted by Priest
Point taken..
still tho Superman maximized sundiped should be enough to beat Prime. give me a referecne or a scan of demonstrating something sundipped supes did along the lines of sbp.

evidence please.

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp jusy delivered a fatal blow to the other superman. it was two on one. i mean ur being utterly ridicuolus. why would the lanetrn corps call in reinforcements if all they needed was superman. why did anyone else come? ur argument makes no sense and superman passed out like the bich he was.
do u only read what u want to read?
debating with you is like debating with a concrete wall.

Originally posted by Priest
do u only read what u want to read?
debating with you is like debating with a concrete wall. funny i feel the same about u just now. prove my statemtnets are false. here goes pay attention norrin,


1 sbp needed to be depowered to lose.
2sbp fought two supermen.
3superman fought a depowered as shit sbp and passed out from it.
4 green lanterns secured sbp after the bich passed out.

Originally posted by BobbyD
WW disrobes; and then ties up SBP in the lasso. Done.

I still like my answer the best.

Originally posted by quanchi112
funny i feel the same about u just now. prove my statemtnets are false. here goes pay attention norrin,


1 sbp needed to be depowered to lose.
2sbp fought two supermen.
3superman fought a depowered as shit sbp and passed out from it.
4 green lanterns secured sbp after the bich passed out.

1. so? the supermen were depowered too...
2. true.
3. superman was more depowered than prime was.
4. they secured him after superman had taken down prime...

Originally posted by BobbyD
I still like my answer the best.

not a bad one bt any means...

Originally posted by quanchi112
funny i feel the same about u just now. prove my statemtnets are false. here goes pay attention norrin,


1 sbp needed to be depowered to lose.
2sbp fought two supermen.
3superman fought a depowered as shit sbp and passed out from it.
4 green lanterns secured sbp after the bich passed out. For 1+2, all three Supermen were depowered, not just SBP. 3, well since he was surrounded by Knite, and had just fought his ass off, you can't take away that he won, just because he passed out as for 4, SBP was KTFO, so of course they were gonna grab him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
funny i feel the same about u just now. prove my statemtnets are false. here goes pay attention norrin,


1 sbp needed to be depowered to lose.
2sbp fought two supermen.
3superman fought a depowered as shit sbp and passed out from it.
4 green lanterns secured sbp after the bich passed out.
u idoit, both supermen's were both depowered as well..
do u only read what u want to read?
Originally posted by Priest
debating with you is like debating with a concrete wall.

Originally posted by pr1983
1. so? the supermen were depowered too...
2. true.
3. superman was more depowered than prime was.
4. they secured him after superman had taken down prime...



not a bad one bt any means... as i said that sbp needed to be depowered to lose. with his powers he would have kicked the shit out of superman. it was still two on one. doesnt change that.

Nino, Pr

Originally posted by Priest
u idoit, both supermen's were both depowered as well..
do u only read what u want to read? that makes it two on one with no powers basically. two on one isnt fair in my book is it in urs?

Originally posted by quanchi112
that makes it two on one with no powers basically. two on one isnt fair in my book is it in urs?
But we got Knite that as weakening superman, and E2 superman was just older...and both were weakened by Red sun
the fight sounds about even too me.

and E2 Supes didn't really do anything but die. ermm

Originally posted by quanchi112
as i said that sbp needed to be depowered to lose. with his powers he would have kicked the shit out of superman. it was still two on one. doesnt change that.

what's your point, that it took two people to take him down? two weakened supermen who had barely faced him in combat beforehand?

Superman was more depowered? Come on.

Even when depowered, Kal is still a 6'3" 240LB beast throwing punches at an 18 year old kid. Of course he was going to win there.

What would've happened if the 2 Supermen woulda fought SBP straight up???? Didn't they have to sneak in and grab him? I believe SBP woulda murdered them both no prob.

Originally posted by pr1983
what's your point, that it took two people to take him down? two weakened supermen who had barely faced him in combat beforehand? my point is what makes sbp the beast he is are his powers/ not fighting without them. geez take a way his powers and hes nothing special. only reason sbp lost was he was depowered and it was two on one. two men vs one boy.

Originally posted by Priest
But we got Knite that as weakening superman, and E2 superman was just older...and both were weakened by Red sun
the fight sounds about even too me. i guess a fair fight is two on one to you, interesting.



they were two men picking on an emotionally troubled young man.

Originally posted by Validus
Superman was more depowered? Come on.

Even when depowered, Kal is still a 6'3" 240LB beast throwing punches at an 18 year old kid. Of course he was going to win there.

peaches?

Originally posted by quanchi112
my point is what makes sbp the beast he is are his powers/ not fighting without them. geez take a way his powers and hes nothing special. only reason sbp lost was he was depowered and it was two on one. two men vs one boy.

and no-one's saying he wasnt weakened, but e1 superman had been weakened by the red sun and the kryptonite, and he hadnt been wearing a solar energy suit up until recently before...

Thing about SBP, he absorbs red solar energy faster than Supes does, AFAIK. So Supes would maintain his powers longer under a red sun than SBP would.

http://dcdatabaseproject.com/Kal-L

Apparently E2 Supes didn't lose his powers under a red sun....... I don't know, is that true?

As much of a sundip as his body would allow....?

I don't get it. He spent millenia sundipping during DC 1 million...wouldn't it be better to say he will sundip for as long as Earth heroes can stand up to SBP?

SBP was supposed to be immune to Red Sun radiation from his origin, but that got either retconned or he has more resistance to it than E1 PC Supes had at the time.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thing about SBP, he absorbs red solar energy faster than Supes does, AFAIK. So Supes would maintain his powers longer under a red sun than SBP would.

is that true?

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
As much of a sundip as his body would allow....?

I don't get it. He spent millenia sundipping during DC 1 million...wouldn't it be better to say he will sundip for as long as Earth heroes can stand up to SBP?

SBP was supposed to be immune to Red Sun radiation from his origin, but that got either retconned or he has more resistance to it than E1 PC Supes had at the time.

k, supes gets... 1 hour sundip...

As far as I'm concerned that is not true. If anything SBP was shown to be resistant to red sun radiation during the crisis when E1 Supes and SBP were captured in a red sun bubble. E1 PC Supes was about to enter panic mode while SBP smashed through it saying "Apparentely it does not affect me." I paraphrased.

However Post Crisis Superman has shown multiple times that he can still put up a good fight even under a red sun.

So like I said earlier SBP was shown in his origin to had more resistance to it than PC Supes. Then in Infinite Crisis SBP loses his powers under red sun radiation. Granted he was smashed through the core of Rao, but still...

So in other words...I don't know, but a case can be made for both sides.

the point of all this is simple. only way sbp was getting beaten here is becuz he was depowered. sbp would beat a sundipped supes. sbp is precrisis. no contest as superman dies. sbp wins. iff he sint depowered superman succumbs to his might.

I just try to imagine how big a powerboost a sundipping hour will grant him. I mean...less then 5 minutes sundip had Supes moving planet sized objects...However it all depends on how long Supes can fight under this state.

SBP wins it IMO. I mean...another PC Superman agreed the only way to put an end to Emoboy Prime's rampancy was to smash him through the red sun and take away his powers.

One way for Superman to beat him is to speedblitz the crap out of SBP at the moment he comes out of the sun and have both of themselves smash through the red sun again. Now if this happens there are 3 possible scenarios:

1. They hit the planet completely powerless and Kal-El beats his ass again.
2. Superman's sundip manages to let Kal-El keep his powers longer than SBP.
3. They both float lifelessly in space after their powers are gone.

Under this particular scenario Superman is successful in saving earth from Superboy Prime even if it means losing his life. No big deal...it's Kal-El we're talking about he has been there and he has done that.

only way for sbp to lose to superman is if sbp is depowered again.

thats the only way.

After reading through the pages I feel like adressing something...

I believe it was priest who said Kal-El was the better man when he defeated SBP at the end of Infnite Crisis.

Did you forget Kal-El was the only man in that fight? Superboy Prime being a powerless teenager taking on a weakened(but you can't really say HOW much) 30 year old man.

Both did well IMO. Kal-El won because he was physically stronger, more mature and experienced than SBP.

No shame in that. Do note Kal-El has survived having Kryptonite in his very own bloodstream. It's not like being surrounded in Knite will make him choke to death in a nanosecond.

bump.

Originally posted by quanchi112
only way for sbp to lose to superman is if sbp is depowered again.

thats the only way. i see no one can argue against this as i thought. only way the man goes down here is if he is depowered.

Originally posted by quanchi112
i see no one can argue against this as i thought. only way the man goes down here is if he is depowered. actually i can see Supes winning with an hour sundip.after only a few minutes sundip he managed to own brainiacs constructs that he and the rest of earth's heroes could not get past before and push Warworld which had lightspeed jets resisting him into a Time Tube into the Big Bang.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
actually i can see Supes winning with an hour sundip.after only a few minutes sundip he managed to own brainiacs constructs that he and the rest of earth's heroes could not get past before and push Warworld which had lightspeed jets resisting him into a Time Tube into the Big Bang. superman would need more than an hour to stop sbp. hes precrisis. hes to much. this isnt precrisis supes so he definitely loses and needs backup like in infinite crisis and needs to depower sbp like before as well to stand a chance.

Originally posted by quanchi112
superman would need more than an hour to stop sbp. hes precrisis. hes to much. this isnt precrisis supes so he definitely loses and needs backup like in infinite crisis and needs to depower sbp like before as well to stand a chance.
Prime is not as strong as precrisis SuperMan/Boy

Originally posted by Priest
Prime is not as strong as precrisis SuperMan/Boy prove it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
prove it.
moves planet with his breath.
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc1dc4.jpg

moves the sun with his breath
http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sadya6.jpg

"Supes easily threw a neutron star several light years away. He claims that the star weighed Trillions of tons and that it exerted a magnetic pull greater then Dozens of Super-Novas, but this didn't affect him in the slightest":
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg

Not a strength feat, but he's faster than Prime.
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc3kz3.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11px9.gif
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12tc8.gif
(Scans credited from Galan, and the Pre Crisis Superman respect thread.)
......
Pre Crisis superman is the stongest of the stongest of the Supermen/Boys
now, all i've been reading in ur debates from u is "prove it" or "show me a scan", don't ask for scans and proof from other debtors if u cannot provide scans and proof yourself, it just makes u look foolish.
Also another tip, dont debate against a character that u have no clue about, e.g pre crisis superman.

Edit.

Originally posted by Priest
moves planet with his breath.
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc1dc4.jpg

moves the sun with his breath
http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sadya6.jpg

"Supes easily threw a neutron star several light years away. He claims that the star weighed Trillions of tons and that it exerted a magnetic pull greater then Dozens of Super-Novas, but this didn't affect him in the slightest":
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg

Not a strength feat, but he's faster than Prime.
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc3kz3.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11px9.gif
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12tc8.gif
(Scans credited from Galan, and the Pre Crisis Superman respect thread.)
......
Pre Crisis superman is the stongest of the stongest of the Supermen/Boys
now, all i've been reading in ur debates from u is "prove it" or "show me a scan", don't ask for scans and proof from other debtors if u cannot provide scans and proof yourself, it just makes u look foolish.
Also another tip, dont debate against a character that u have no clue about, e.g pre crisis superman. give sbp time. i mean geez he doesnt have that many appearances. sbp destroyed the speed barrier. he moved planets so quick no one noticed. no one could stop him physically, hence the whole lets depower him to kill him. sbp was constanntly getting energy funnelled into him. he has the adavnatge and would win there to but it would be much closer imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
give sbp time. i mean geez he doesnt have that many appearances.
ur the one that asked me to prove it..no?

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp destroyed the speed barrier.
SC supes has similar feat(s)
Also PC supes almost reached heaven with his speed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
he moved planets so quick no one noticed.
PC SuperBoy towed a galaxy amount of planets with a giant chain easily.

Originally posted by quanchi112
no one could stop him physically, hence the whole lets depower him to kill him. sbp was constanntly getting energy funnelled into him. he has the adavnatge and would win there to but it would be much closer imo.
he's still not stronger than Silver age superman.

Why bother bringing Pre-Crisis Supes to the debate when there is no Pre-Crisis Supes in the actual fight.

Well...Sundipped Supes is an excuse to have Post Crisis Supes perform Pre Crisis level feats, but still...

A weakened SBP physically rearranged the DC universe to make Alexander Luthor's machine work...that's impressive. In fact he moved the planets so fast people didn't even notice it happened after it was over.

1 hour sundip might do it....it might not.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Why bother bringing Pre-Crisis Supes to the debate when there is no Pre-Crisis Supes in the actual fight.

Quan is arguing that Prime is as power full as Pre Crisis Superman which is false.

Originally posted by Priest
Quan is arguing that Prime is as power full as Pre Crisis Superman which is false. u dont know that. u just speculate. sb wrekced the speed barrier and moved planets like nothing. give him some more appearances and we will see.

we are off topic though and sbp crushes sundipped supes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
u dont know that. u just speculate. sb wrekced the speed barrier and moved planets like nothing.
ur speculating

Originally posted by quanchi112
give him some more appearances and we will see.
^speculation^

To be clear that last battle in IC showed:

1) De-powered teen beating a de-powered old man to death.

2) De-powered adult in his (ahem) prime built like a brick wall beating teen into unconciousness.

3) De-powered adult collapsing from k-nite exposure.


For this batle, there're quite a few variables. Is Hourman the one who can stop time? Can Mary Marvel heal with Isis's powers? Just how powerful is current Supes? Can J'onn take him out via TP, or at least leave him open to a dogpile of Marvels & Kryptonians? Is Captain Marvel Freddy or Billy? Can the Marvels share with/powerup other teammates ("J'onn, say "Mary Marvel!" Is Wonder Woman packing divine artifacts or just her lasso and bracelets? Is Powergirl back to Earth-2 power post IC? For that matter, why not sundip her & Super Girl too?

Prime is a beast, but he never feally faced a co-ordinated or sustained attack like this, and he's rather inexperienced.

I'm not sure Powergirl can sundip, maybe I'm wrong.

Welcome back Laminator. Where you been?

Originally posted by Priest
ur speculating


^speculation^ this isnt speculation. sbp wrekced the speed force. and he was defeated by being depowered. thats it.

face the facts.

I don't see why she can't. If she has kryptonian DNA she should be able to do it. Any kryptonian should be able to it.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I don't see why she can't. If she has kryptonian DNA she should be able to do it. Any kryptonian should be able to it.
isent she pre crisis Kyptonian? im not sure if they can.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
To be clear that last battle in IC showed:

1) De-powered teen beating a de-powered old man to death.

2) De-powered adult in his (ahem) prime built like a brick wall beating teen into unconciousness.

3) De-powered adult collapsing from k-nite exposure.


For this batle, there're quite a few variables. Is Hourman the one who can stop time? Can Mary Marvel heal with Isis's powers? Just how powerful is current Supes? Can J'onn take him out via TP, or at least leave him open to a dogpile of Marvels & Kryptonians? Is Captain Marvel Freddy or Billy? Can the Marvels share with/powerup other teammates ("J'onn, say "Mary Marvel!" Is Wonder Woman packing divine artifacts or just her lasso and bracelets? Is Powergirl back to Earth-2 power post IC? For that matter, why not sundip her & Super Girl too?

Prime is a beast, but he never feally faced a co-ordinated or sustained attack like this, and he's rather inexperienced. sbp is rather inexperienced and thats why he lost in infinite crisis. he didnt see it coming. but u have to admit he faced a lot of green lanterns,heroes,and 2 superman to take him down. thats one helluva team there.

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp is rather inexperienced and thats why he lost in infinite crisis. he didnt see it coming. but u have to admit he faced a lot of green lanterns,heroes,and 2 superman to take him down. thats one helluva team there.
how is he inexperienced? he was the only Super Hero of his universe.

Why not? It is possible they didn't sundip back then because:

1. They did not need to given their exagerated power set
2. The concept of sundip was not alive then

IMO if they have Kryptonian DNA they should. They still get their power from a yellow sun. Heck I'd argue PC kryptonians can "sundip" without being anywhere near the sun using SBP as an example. He was weak inside Alexander's heaven because of the lack of a yellow sun...once he broke free he was moving planets across the DCverse and destroying the Speed Force, shattering the phantom zone etc.

Originally posted by Priest
how is he inexperienced? he was the only Super Hero of his universe. hes young. hes been watching his memories for how many years now. i mean come on. its laughable that u want to say he is experienced.

SBP is highly inexperienced. He was created strictly for the Crisis on Infinite Earths and then got dumped in Alexander's heaven until Infinite Crisis.

He is not experienced at all. That is why he was so dangerous...he was not trying to kill the Titans and yet he still did. He showed a lack of control over his powers once his emotions became unstable.

priest you should stick to silver surfer becuz u maybe u know him better than you do sbp. becuz with sbp you claim he is experienced and have made all kinds of erroneous statements thus far.

It is human to error, Quanchi. If anything I'd rather have him stay in this so he can learn more about SBP. That's what I do in a thread where I don't know much about a certain character, but that's just me anyway.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
It is human to error, Quanchi. If anything I'd rather have him stay in this so he can learn more about SBP. That's what I do in a thread where I don't know much about a certain character, but that's just me anyway. but he made atrocious errors. to call sbp experienced is like admitting i know nothing of the character. he can do a quick wikipedia search on his own or maybe search his respect thread. dont know if he has one on here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
sbp is rather inexperienced and thats why he lost in infinite crisis. he didnt see it coming. but u have to admit he faced a lot of green lanterns,heroes,and 2 superman to take him down. thats one helluva team there.

Hell of a team, but up until the very end they weren't really co-ordinated. The GL-squad basically waited for him out in space and then said "Get Him!" when he broke through their wall (which was a lame idea in 3-dimensional outer space in any case, that's what they get for putting Guy in a leadership position). Except for the final super-throwdown, each engagement had Prime smashing heads like a bull in a china-shop and most-everyone else just reacting to that.

J'onn's presence here is a huge change from IC. The good-guys here now know what they're up against and have a great planner-coordinator in their midst.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Hell of a team, but up until the very end they weren't really co-ordinated. The GL-squad basically waited for him out in space and then said "Get Him!" when he broke through their wall (which was a lame idea in 3-dimensional outer space in any case, that's what they get for putting Guy in a leadership position). Except for the final super-throwdown, each engagement had Prime smashing heads like a bull in a china-shop and most-everyone else just reacting to that.

J'onn's presence here is a huge change from IC. The good-guys here now know what they're up against and have a great planner-coordinator in their midst. u make good points. it was all sudden reaction to sbp flying away and them doing what they could to slow him down. it wasnt very coordinated but it was still a helluva force for an inexpereinced sbp to mow down. until they depowered him those rats.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not sure Powergirl can sundip, maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know. So far, I think Clark's been the only one with the guts to try it.



Why thanks TP. I actually had a temporarily (thank goodness) crippling accident back in the spring and have just recently gotten back to my old-self (ok, I'm still limping a bit). It's good to be back.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
I don't know. So far, I think Clark's been the only one with the guts to try it.



Why thanks TP. I actually had a temporarily (thank goodness) crippling accident back in the spring and have just recently gotten back to my old-self (ok, I'm still limping a bit). It's good to be back.

Ouch. Get well soon dude. And ignore Quanchi, he's an idiot.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Ouch. Get well soon dude. And ignore Quanchi, he's an idiot. its funny that i get to u so much. it makes me laugh all the time.

know that i like the power i have over you. now back t comics as i grrow weary of ur flame wars.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Ouch. Get well soon dude. And ignore Quanchi, he's an idiot.
A guy who says Celestials could beat Mxy ,Anti-Monitor and Parallax at the same time is more then an idiot.

Superman... "as sundipped as his body will allow" vs. SBP....

Yeah, Superman has no chance beating him.

Originally posted by Estacado
A guy who says Celestials could beat Mxy ,Anti-Monitor and Parallax at the same time is more then an idiot. ive told u why. gog one shotted him. celestials would own gog like nothing yet he possessed the power to one shot him. am can get weakened while parallax cant make the celestials fear a damn thing.

Kal-El has been the only with the guts to do it because he is the poster boy. I thought that was fairly obvious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
while parallax cant make the celestials fear a damn thing.

You really don't know what I'm talking about.....

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Kal-El has been the only with the guts to do it because he is the poster boy. I thought that was fairly obvious.

Super-Girl should definitely be capable of it. Power-Girl maybe/maybe-not. The Earth-2 Kryptonians aren't exactly the same as Kal-El, that could go either way. Neither is it clear just how Two-ish she is at this point.

*After witnessing every DC hero fall to SBP's wrath Kara Zor-el flies at near light speeds towards Earth's sun. However she is stopped by her cousin who throws her aside and asks through the vacuum of space*

Superman "Just what the hell do you think you're doing?"

Supergirl blinks and shrugs her shoulders "Well I'm doing the hero thing and getting a sundip just like you have done in the past."

Superman is angry and barks "You can't do it. It's exclusive to me."

Supergirl shakes her head "Why?"

Superman "Because."

Supergirl shouts " Because what?!"

Superman ends it "Because I'm the god damn Superman and I always end every ****ing crisis, you *****. Know your role and shut up."

Supergirl "You're a dick."

Superman "I know131"

Originally posted by Estacado

You really don't know what I'm talking about..... keep on smiley facing away.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
*After witnessing every DC hero fall to SBP's wrath Kara Zor-el flies at near light speeds towards Earth's sun. However she is stopped by her cousin who throws her aside and asks through the vacuum of space*

Superman "Just what the hell do you think you're doing?"

Supergirl blinks and shrugs her shoulders "Well I'm doing the hero thing and getting a sundip just like you have done in the past."

Superman is angry and barks "You can't do it. It's exclusive to me."

Supergirl shakes her head "Why?"

Superman "Because."

Supergirl shouts " Because what?!"

Superman ends it "Because I'm the god damn Superman and I always end every ****ing crisis, you *****. Know your role and shut up."

Supergirl "You're a dick."

Superman "I know131"

Originally posted by pr1983
yeah its weird isnt it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
yeah its weird isnt it.

shrug

quick point... it was mentioned that superboy prime punched his way out of the phantom zone, right? well during the battle between the two supermen, both men remarked that they could feel reality change with every punch...

they seem to be packing quite a bit of a wallop themselves...

quanchi, you say to give prime time to get more appearences, and thats all good and fine, but this fight is based on their records so far...

there is nothing to make me believe (from what i've read, and its entirely possible i've missed issues) that prime could withstand an attack from the team i put out...

just my opinion...

Originally posted by pr1983
shrug

quick point... it was mentioned that superboy prime punched his way out of the phantom zone, right? well during the battle between the two supermen, both men remarked that they could feel reality change with every punch...

they seem to be packing quite a bit of a wallop themselves...

quanchi, you say to give prime time to get more appearences, and thats all good and fine, but this fight is based on their records so far...

there is nothing to make me believe (from what i've read, and its entirely possible i've missed issues) that prime could withstand an attack from the team i put out...

just my opinion... the only reason he lost in infinite crisis is becuz he was depowered. thats it.

I phailed. weep

Originally posted by pr1983
shrug

quick point... it was mentioned that superboy prime punched his way out of the phantom zone, right? well during the battle between the two supermen, both men remarked that they could feel reality change with every punch...

they seem to be packing quite a bit of a wallop themselves...
That was totally different. Everytime they hit each other, they experienced life in the other persons shoes. Doesn't say anything for how strong they are.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I phailed. weep its alright we all know you messed up...


but least me and your mom are still friends

Originally posted by Dgw2007
its alright we all know you messed up...


but least me and your mom are still friends

Originally posted by Dgw2007
its alright we all know you messed up...


but least me and your mom are still friends

dur

Originally posted by quanchi112
the only reason he lost in infinite crisis is becuz he was depowered. thats it.

I'd qualify that with the good-guys basicly reacting in panick-mode the whole time. He and Alex kept everybody on the ropes to the point that they never really mounted an effective counter attack. The best they managed was all showing up to brawl with the villains in Metropolis.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
I'd qualify that with the good-guys basicly reacting in panick-mode the whole time. He and Alex kept everybody on the ropes to the point that they never really mounted an effective counter attack. The best they managed was all showing up to brawl with the villains in Metropolis. well yes you are indeed correct that alex planned each and all of his moves masterfully. whom do u think could outright beat sbp without depowering him of these three i name.



superman(sundipped(1hour),darkseid,orion


any of these three by themselevs do u feel can beat sbp?

i wanna see where u gauge him on this first.

I'd say no to sundipped Supes by himself. His top-end move was moving a planet, which SBP seens to do with less effort (although warworld had engines). Also, even with the gradual powerup he got running up to IC, he never had the full Silver Age whackiness that SBP seems to preserve.

I think Darkseid could win via the Omega Effect (as long as Loeb isn't writing ) Even if he couldn't disintigrate him, he could drop him into the middle of a Red Sun without any momentum to carry him out like when they flew through Rao at super-speed. Roasted. (I consider the breakout of the red solar sphere in CoIE to be anomalous, based on red Sun depowering him twice in IC, even of one was off-panel) Though that is a win by depowering him, it's not really something he could prevent with his powers either. Darkseid could probably trick SBP into getting stuck in the Source Wall fairly easily as well. SBP is rather naive
.
Orion just might be able to take him head on. He's one of the very few I'd even consider. The New Gods didn't get de-powered after CoIE (although various writers put them all over the map), and the Dog of War sits near the top of that food-chain. Of particular note I would refer to PC Superboy and Supergirl getting shown up by Orion when they all faced Darkseid.

sorry i was off me and Superboy Prime (KMC) was doing it

Originally posted by Laminator_X
I'd say no to sundipped Supes by himself. His top-end move was moving a planet, which SBP seens to do with less effort (although warworld had engines). Also, even with the gradual powerup he got running up to IC, he never had the full Silver Age whackiness that SBP seems to preserve.

I think Darkseid could win via the Omega Effect (as long as Loeb isn't writing ) Even if he couldn't disintigrate him, he could drop him into the middle of a Red Sun without any momentum to carry him out like when they flew through Rao at super-speed. Roasted. (I consider the breakout of the red solar sphere in CoIE to be anomalous, based on red Sun depowering him twice in IC, even of one was off-panel) Though that is a win by depowering him, it's not really something he could prevent with his powers either. Darkseid could probably trick SBP into getting stuck in the Source Wall fairly easily as well. SBP is rather naive
.
Orion just might be able to take him head on. He's one of the very few I'd even consider. The New Gods didn't get de-powered after CoIE (although various writers put them all over the map), and the Dog of War sits near the top of that food-chain. Of particular note I would refer to PC Superboy and Supergirl getting shown up by Orion when they all faced Darkseid. but loeb didnt write apokolips now and in that story superman beat darkseid by himself with no powerups at all. it was the worst ds loss by superman i have ever seen. sbp is much more than that. hes alot more powerful. i dont consider darkseid the badass you make him out to be. when he met raker,doomsday and superman rather recently he has really gotten the piss beaten out of him. it makes no sense that the new gods werent depowered becuz the rest of the universe was and supes beats him now but back when he was precrisis he had no chance. think about it.


orion i think of him as getting worse with time. he is going down to darkseid by handwaves in countdown i hear. that is very very bad for the dog of war.

i feel sbp could steamroll over them both. not at once but separately. i could see darkseid manipulating him in astory but not in a kmc forum here.

That's what's tricky about the New Gods. From one writer to the next there's very little consistency in their power-levels. As you describe them, no they couldn't do much. OTOH, at other times and with other writers, they've been portrayed as far more powerful, both before and after the Crisis. I generally look at Kirby's work to be definitive, but that's hardly the only valid perspective.

Remember too that Superman was getting more and more Pre-Crisis-ish as IC approached. Both he and other characters commented on the change.

Darkseid in particular has been playing the role of Chump to be Beaten to Build Somebody Up quite a lot recently. He also tends to sometimes forget that he can teleport people. Jobberseid certainly could not touch SBP.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
That's what's tricky about the New Gods. From one writer to the next there's very little consistency in their power-levels. As you describe them, no they couldn't do much. OTOH, at other times and with other writers, they've been portrayed as far more powerful, both before and after the Crisis. I generally look at Kirby's work to be definitive, but that's hardly the only valid perspective.

Remember too that Superman was getting more and more Pre-Crisis-ish as IC approached. Both he and other characters commented on the change.

Darkseid in particular has been playing the role of Chump to be Beaten to Build Somebody Up quite a lot recently. He also tends to sometimes forget that he can teleport people. Jobberseid certainly could not touch SBP. i always find it tricky to call him jobberseid. although i do know what u mean that he is losing simply to establish another character and for that purpose only kinda. but i look at it as darkseid losses. he isnt written as powerful as when kirby wrote him. prolly becuz kirby had a soft spot for his stalin like dictator.

superman in dc will always ruin the fun as he usually is always the center of attention and ruins it for other characters to grab a portion of the pspotlight from time to time.

im ranting now but anyways i feel with the raw power that sbp was shown to have had in ic that he could definitely take it to darkseid. im not sure how he is portrayed in sinestro corps as i wont read it until its finished.

Originally posted by quanchi112
the only reason he lost in infinite crisis is becuz he was depowered. thats it.

doh you're missing the point...

Originally posted by Validus
That was totally different. Everytime they hit each other, they experienced life in the other persons shoes. Doesn't say anything for how strong they are.

other than the fact that they were hitting each other pretty hard?

Originally posted by pr1983
doh you're missing the point...



other than the fact that they were hitting each other pretty hard? ok tell me ur point again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ok tell me ur point again.

ok, they fly through the sun and hit mogo, and are all weakened... now, if i'm wrong then i'll admit it, but wasnt earth 1 superman weakened by both the kryptonite AND the red sun radiation, while the others were weakened by either one or the other? by that logic wouldnt earth 1 superman be weaker (power-wise) than the other two?

i'm not disputing that with both men equally powerless, kal should stomp prime...

about taking his powers being the only way to beat him, i don't agree with that at all... if it was true, then to me thats a pretty crappy character...

now sbp is in the sinestro corps, and somebody is going to have to take him down, and i sincerely doubt geoff johns is going to do the exact same thing that they did in IC... we havent really seen prime fight superman while both men were powered, so gauging how the fight would go is (like alot of things on this forum) purely speculation... i'm not denying prime is powerful, but hasn't it been said on several occasions that superman has limitless strength? i'm sure he can at the very least put up a fight against prime...

it might not be superman alone, but i can see him and several others playing a part, and succeeding...

Originally posted by pr1983
ok, they fly through the sun and hit mogo, and are all weakened... now, if i'm wrong then i'll admit it, but wasnt earth 1 superman weakened by both the kryptonite AND the red sun radiation, while the others were weakened by either one or the other? by that logic wouldnt earth 1 superman be weaker than the other two?

i'm not disputing that with both men equally powerless, kal should stomp prime...

about taking his powers being the only way to beat him, i don't agree with that at all... if it was true, then to me thats a pretty crappy character...

now sbp is in the sinestro corps, and somebody is going to have to take him down, and i sincerely doubt geoff johns is going to do the exact same thing that they did in IC... we havent really seen prime fight superman while both men were powered, so gauging how the fight would go is (like alot of things on this forum) purely speculation... i'm not denying prime is powerful, but hasn't it been said on several occasions that superman has limitless strength? i'm sure he can at the very least put up a fight against prime...

it might not be superman alone, but i can see him and several others playing a part, and succeeding... ok i dont mean that the only way to defeat him is to depower him but that is the only way the supermen beat him. you could get stronger forces together or attach a plot device to superman like usual. trust me i hate superman and it disgusts me how hes the star all the time. it takes away from other characters. but it is what it is.

im very interested to download sinestro corps after its finished and give it a good read. i feel that all the characters must be depowered from the first big threats to the universe becuz it sems like overkill to unite all these baddies. but i wont know until i read it. i cant wait as it looks very good.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ok i dont mean that the only way to defeat him is to depower him but that is the only way the supermen beat him. you could get stronger forces together or attach a plot device to superman like usual. trust me i hate superman and it disgusts me how hes the star all the time. it takes away from other characters. but it is what it is.

and at the same time you consider superman>darkseid?



dude, if you can afford it, i highly recommend buying it... it's been nothing short of awesome so far, and it looks like its only going to get better...

question... green lantern rings can't kill right? what about someone like henshaw? in karu-sil's origin it showed the GL that found her killing her pack, so it seems to me that there are loopholes...

Originally posted by pr1983
and at the same time you consider superman>darkseid?



dude, if you can afford it, i highly recommend buying it... it's been nothing short of awesome so far, and it looks like its only going to get better...

question... green lantern rings can't kill right? what about someone like henshaw? in karu-sil's origin it showed the GL that found her killing her pack, so it seems to me that there are loopholes... i only think superman is greater than darkseid anymore if his omega effect fails. ds cant take a punch like superman. i feel ds is still more powerful than supes but that supes can and has beaten him more frequently in the past 6 years as opposed to decades ago.

there are always loopholes in comics. crazy retcons and what now. once u think u know some writer shells something out to make u feel like u only think u know.

Originally posted by quanchi112
i only think superman is greater than darkseid anymore if his omega effect fails. ds cant take a punch like superman. i feel ds is still more powerful than supes but that supes can and has beaten him more frequently in the past 6 years as opposed to decades ago.

there are always loopholes in comics. crazy retcons and what now. once u think u know some writer shells something out to make u feel like u only think u know.

i just don't get how you seem so covinced that superman would beat darkseid but he'd have no chance against prime...

but these are all recent events by the same writer... geoff johns shows karu-sil's pack being killed, yet barely three comics later shows green lanterns being told that their ring won't use lethal force...