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I'm genuinely curious how people think this will stack up. For the intents of the fight, Luke and Kyle are at their most current states, Sidious is as of Dark Empire, and Dooku as of RotS.

This is a difficult one, Janus, since Luke as of Legacy of the Force is a bit underpowered compared to his usual self, which means that Kyle himself will also be underpowered. So Sidious and Dooku might very well take this.

Escape, I don't understand why you're using character inconsistencies as part of your argument here.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, I don't understand why you're using character inconsistencies as part of your argument here.

Lol, DS, put down the hookah. There is no argument. I said that the Sith Lords could win. Because DE Sidious would kick the shit out of LotF Luke. Now if this is NJO Luke, that's a different story. Luke has more inconsistencies than any other character, so it's a legitimate point.

There has to be a reason, other than character inconsistencies, why Luke is suddenly weaker than his NJO self. Perhaps the authors decided he was overpowered enough. Furthermore, isn't Kyle supposed to be a better lightsaber duelist than Luke? If so, he's better than Dooku as well. Anyways, I don't really care since it wasn't specified which Luke this is.. Btw don't call me by my slave name.

I'm really not sure how strong LotF Luke and Kyle are, but if their anywhere near their NJO selfs, Luke could still take Sidious for certain, though I'm not sure how close it would be, and Kyle could likely hold off Dooku until Sidious is dead, and then he and Luke together would own Dooku.


Well, if Luke is only a bit underpowered, then he's still insanely strong and would take Sidious.

I've heard that about LotF Luke. Why is that, anyways? And in what ways is he technically underpowered?

It's not that he's underpowered, it's that he doesn't really do anything. He's pretty much the "Dawson" in the Dawson's Creek of Star Wars. My guess is the authors thought he was already way too overpowered, so they wanted to bring him down. At any rate, they did a poor job with character development and consistency.

He's not. He has one poor fight under his belt, and the beating he took there was mainly because he doesn't want to butcher his former lover-and still doesn't until he wants to in Sacrifice, whereupon he butchers her savagely.

Luke and Kyle take this...Luke would tear Dooku like paper...

Luke would beat Sidious, Dooku would beat Kyle, then Luke would beat Dooku

Believe it or not I agree with Lightsnake on this one. Luke and Kyle take this.

Team 1 wins.

Never was this hinted at or implied. As far as I know, he's the lightsabre instructor for the New Jedi Order. Other than that... what exactly has he done to be considered impressive?

I'm sorry, if Kyle were of any use he would have actually done something during the Yuuzhan Vong War. His uselessness alone implies that he is not that great.



From what I've heard, he's roughly on par with Jacen now. Could be age, I suppose, or could be Jacen clouding the force (Jacen is also clouding his emotions). Maybe the books have a better explanation.

I believe Kyle was on missions involving saving refugees during the Yuuzhan Vong war.

And I've never heard that Jacen is stronger than Luke

He is.



While I can agree that the circumstances in which Luke fought Lumiya were difficult, he hasn't exhibited any of the power levels that he did in the New Jedi Order series. The explanation is obvious: these jackass authors keep dicking around with Luke's level of power; they've done it on numerous occasions. DE Luke is on par with his NJO self in terms of Force prowess, and yet everything post-DE makes him look like just an "above average Jedi". Timothy Zahn did it to Luke in Survivor's Quest where he and Mara Jade -- a decade after Dark Empire -- nearly die combating a single droideka.

As for Luke being unwilling to "butcher" her, no, he's unwilling to kill her in cold blood. He shot her repeatedly in Tempest. He's willing to kill her in self defense, but he's not willing to seek her out like Mara is.



Yes, and Sidious would annihilate Kyle just as easily. It all depends on how you want to approach the fight, LS. I have no problem chalking Luke's recent dip in power as mere author-induced stupidity. But if you're talking about feats of power or demonstration of power as of LotF, Luke gets curbstomped.

This really doesn't prove much, though. Plenty of PT Knights have done the same, and they'd get obliterated by Dooku or Sidious with a glance.

Again, if he were as powerful as Dooku (Or hell, even Obi-Wan), he would have at least replaced someone like Jaina or a random Knight in the major battles. Instead, he was nowhere to be seen. He could have not been *that* big of an asset.

Originally posted by Gideon
He is.



While I can agree that the circumstances in which Luke fought Lumiya were difficult, he hasn't exhibited any of the power levels that he did in the New Jedi Order series. The explanation is obvious: these jackass authors keep dicking around with Luke's level of power; they've done it on numerous occasions. DE Luke is on par with his NJO self in terms of Force prowess, and yet everything post-DE makes him look like just an "above average Jedi". Timothy Zahn did it to Luke in Survivor's Quest where he and Mara Jade -- a decade after Dark Empire -- nearly die combating a single droideka.
Should he kill Lumiya with a gesture, then? Blow apart her life support with a flick of his wrist when he clesrly doesn't want to kill her? He's seen, approximately one or two fights in the series, both against Lumiya.

At a point where she was clearly intent on killing him and others. He didn't shoot her fatally, either.

And as he clearly displays, he's a bit iffy over killing former lovers. When he thinks she killed Mara, he destroys her



But since LOTF Luke isn't a separate entity from NJO or DN Luke, he's still got that power. He just needs a competent author

Yes, he should have. Or disabled her. Someone of Luke's prowess as of Legacy of the Force should be capable of doing so. That she was endangering countless beings would also have made the situation a bit clearer. The point is that authors dick around with Luke's level of power, and -- again -- if you want to say NJO Luke or DE Luke or "Luke with his DE/NJO/LotF" powers, then I can understand. But that is what is so annoying. LotF Luke is downright shitty in comparison to his better moments. But if you want to base this on what he has shown us in this new series, he'd lose this fight.



Lightsnake, she was clearly intent on killing him and others from the very beginning. She's a dark Jedi/wannabe Sith Lady. He didn't manage to kill her because he had a piss-poor aim. Blind luck saved Lumiya, not Luke's kindness.



He moves her like a battering ram off a cliff. Yeah. But he doesn't WTFpwn her in a display of alarming skill. Prior to that, he didn't even think he could have beaten her without his shoto (though he was sure he could when he was pissed). The point is that Luke should pwn her even in a calm, focused state, shoto or not.



That's the point. At the end of the paperback of The Unifying Force, I think, the authors are interviewed for ten pages or so. In it, they expressed their concerns that Luke was getting too powerful, hence why the Yuuzhan Vong were created: entities outside the Force. Luke would be virtually disarmed. Timothy Zahn said the same thing. It sucks when the protagonist is too powerful. I mean, really, Lightsnake, think about it. The most powerful Sith Lord in history has already been killed, decades earlier (Sidious). The most powerful military regime in history has been handicapped (the Empire). All he's fighting now is scraps of both. A wannabe Sith Lady and a piss-poor Rebellion. Where's the threat? That is why authors dick around with his power level, and that is why -- when all else fails -- Jacen is winning his battle of wills against Luke because he's smarter.

I'd hate to read a ****ing book where Harry Potter kicks Voldemort's ass or where Luke WTFpwns every threat he faces. From a storyline's perspective, these authors are making the right call. I just wish they'd be consistent.

So then basically it's just PIS.

Not to be off-topic, but Harry couldn't hold a candle to Voldemort's power when it really came to it. It is because of what happened with the Elder Wand, as well as that freakish thing that happened with Harry's actual wand and the golden flames...

Originally posted by Captain REX
Not to be off-topic, but Harry couldn't hold a candle to Voldemort's power when it really came to it. It is because of what happened with the Elder Wand, as well as that freakish thing that happened with Harry's actual wand and the golden flames...

Lol I know, that's my point. It would have been absolutely stupid of Rowling to even entertain the idea that they were close. Harry won because he's got balls, he's got smart friends, he's got some of Voldemort's power, and Voldemort liked like a retard in the last book. But, yeah, head-to-head? He didn't have a chance.

Harry Potter is gay.

Harry's just geigh. He'll come out of it. Eragon, though... he is one scrrrrewed up mutherf*cker.

No, the whole concept of Harry Potter is gay. At least Lord of the Rings applies to the heterosexual folks.