Darth Nihilus vs. Kyp Durron
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Nikkolas
The winner will get my #3 spot for Top Ten Most Powerful Force Users. Right after Luke and Palpatine.
Which has displayed greater Force powers? And who'd win in a Force fight?
Darth Sexy
Stop with the damn Nihilus fanboyism. Nihilus has his planetary force drain, while Kyp manipulated a black whole. While I consider it a greater force power, it doesn't necessarily equate to a victory if he were to fight Nihilus. Furthermore, Nihilus saber skills are relatively unknown.
ThoraxeRMG
Nihilus takes this.
Nikkolas
Kyp manipulated a small pseudo-blackhole.
A better feat would be the Sun Crusher out of Yavin but how much was Exar's power and how much was Kyp's is unknown.
Darth Sexy
A black hole is a black hole Nikkolas. Black holes swallow whole systems..
Janus Marius
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
A black hole is a black hole Nikkolas. Black holes swallow whole systems..
There's a considerable difference in a micro black hole and stellar-mass black holes and above.
Faunus
The dovin basal's black holes are quite obviously not as large or powerful as a real black hole, else the Vong wouldn't need coralskippers or World Brains or whatever the hell they call their shit. Note that they don't use them to swallow planets and the ilk, as they would do very easily with giant-sized examples if they could manipulate them.
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Janus Marius
There's a considerable difference in a micro black hole and stellar-mass black holes and above.
There's also a considerable difference between 1 planet and ANY black hole...
Faunus
Really? That's a shock.
Darth Sexy
Gee Faunus, when Janus states the obvious (the difference between a mini black hole and a giant one), you don't respond. But when I respond with yet another obvious, you need to rush to the rescue. I'm fairly certain Janus can respond himself.. Thanks for your input though.
Faunus
No, see Janus' statement had purpose; dovin basal-created black holes and their much larger cosmic counterparts are not the same, something you seemed to miss. Yours? Not so much. If Luke or Kyp managed to manipulate a real black hole the entire war would've been over in days. Likewise, if the Vong were able to generate something like that they could've wiped out entire systems.
Darth Sexy
Yes or no. Manipulating dovin basal black holes is a more impressive feat than eating 1 planet? That was my point...
And yet, it is obvious that the dovin basal black holes are NOT the same as large, cosmic black holes. So it was still stating the obvious.
Janus Marius
Dovin basal black holes are nowhere near as powerful as any form of black hole, really. The most impressive thing one has done is bring a planetary satellite out of orbit and into a collision. Real black holes have size measured in solar mass.
True, they have impressive gravity capability, but they are not solar system destroying real deals.
Darth_Glentract
This would be kickarse to watch for sure. I think Nihilus has a very good chance of taking this. He's shown a lot of power on a huge scale. Things like holding the Ravager together aswell lifting it from the mass shadows are extremely impressive. I'm kinda leaning towards him, but even if he won I still don't think he'd deserve a number 3 spot over Sekot, Ragnos, Raynar Thul (Killik colony empowered), and maybe Nayx or Exar.
Faunus
I don't think Nyax was overwhelmingly powerful in his own right; it was more that he was a melee monster, if I recall correctly. But I've never read most of the NJO, so you're the expert.
Nikkolas
Nihilus KILLS planets near instantly.
What is Sekot?
A feast.
Ragnos' Scepter is the only thing that approaches the powers Nihilus displayed.
With a vast outside powerup, sure.
But Nihilus might just eat the colony.
........Nyax at his best, with the unexplained power from the remnants of the Jedi Temple, still wasn't moving around fleets with his TK.
I think I give Kun more credit than some but I still saw nothing of his that matched the powers Nihilus displayed.
Darth Sexy
Ragnos' Scepter is not the only thing that comes, so stop being a fanboy. We have Sidious' force storm which destroys the fabric of space itself. We have Zonoma Sekot which is a force wielding planet. Nihilus' destroying that planet is nothing but an assumption.
Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Ragnos' Scepter is not the only thing that comes, so stop being a fanboy. We have Sidious' force storm which destroys the fabric of space itself. We have Zonoma Sekot which is a force wielding planet. Nihilus' destroying that planet is nothing but an assumption. He meant that none of Ragnos' powers cept the scepter come close to Nihilus. What do you mean Nihilus destroying a planet is only an assumption?
Darth Sexy
Nihilus being able to destroy Zonoma Sekot is nothing but an assumption. Just because he can destroy a planet with X characteristics, doesn't mean he can destroy a living force wielding planet.
Violent2Dope
Oh, well if it can wield the Force, and since Nihilus has Force Killed living things on planetary scale(the planet which everything on it was either a Jedi or Force Sensitive) with it, it would make sense if he could.
Darth Sexy
How in the blue hell do you quantify or even compare a normal planet with force wielding users, with a force wielding planet that moves through hyperspace?
Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How in the blue hell do you quantify or even compare a normal planet with force wielding users, with a force wielding planet that moves through hyperspace? I'm just saying it's quite possible he could do it, but we never really will know will we?
Darth Sexy
Being "possible" doesn't make it probable. You'd have to make a more convincing argument since you think it's "possible".
Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Being "possible" doesn't make it probable. You'd have to make a more convincing argument since you think it's "possible". It's kinda impossible to make a more convincing argument when his best Force Killer feat is Katar. Can you prove he can't do it?
Darth Sexy
Why would I have to prove that he CANT? You're talking about because he can drain something with A properties, he could do the same thing with B properties. We've seen that in cases of other wounds in the force, he can't, so there's no reason to assume he can drain everything.
Nikkolas
But Sekot is not a Wound.
So...comparing a planet in the Force to a single person not in the Force is a very poor way of proving he can't devour Sekot.
Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why would I have to prove that he CANT? You're talking about because he can drain something with A properties, he could do the same thing with B properties. We've seen that in cases of other wounds in the force, he can't, so there's no reason to assume he can drain everything. He doesn't drain anything, me and Nik pretty much covered this in the Force Power Rankings thread. He only can't drain another Wound in the Force. Sekot is not a wound in the Force.
Darth Sexy
Sekot, however, is force wielding super planet that has hyperspace engines.. You'd have to prove that Nihilus can drain something with those "unknown" properties.
Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sekot, however, is force wielding super planet that has hyperspace engines.. You'd have to prove that Nihilus can drain something with those "unknown" properties. What "unknown" properties? I don't know a whole lot about this Sekot, but if it's alive(if it can move of it's own accord, I'm just assuming it is) and is connected to the Force it's succeptible to Force Killer.
Darth Sexy
You don't know the properties of the force killer. Simply assuming that anything made of the force will succumb to Nihilus power is illogical. Nihilus' ability to drain something like Zonoma is at best, unknown.
Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You don't know the properties of the force killer. Simply assuming that anything made of the force will succumb to Nihilus power is illogical. Nihilus' ability to drain something like Zonoma is at best, unknown. Force Killer in it's definition creates bonds with any life touched by the Force, then violently severs them and feeds on the death it causes.
Darth_Glentract
Considering Sekot is powerful enough to reach out across the galaxy and kill Nihilus before Nihilus has any idea what's hit him Sekot wins.
Shin_Nikkolas
When the heck did Sekot ever do that?
Manslayer
Not like the planet cant defend itself against nihilus attack. If you can speculate that the planet sekot can get drained i can also speculate that the planet has the fallanasi looping technique to defend against nihilus attack.
Again: Nihilus never lifted a fleet but a ship as stated by out of universe sources(loading screen) and tobins a fallible character
Shin_Nikkolas
Just because Tobin is fallible doesn't mean he's wrong. Just that he COUDL be wrong. And nothing says he is.
Faunus
Originally posted by Manslayer
Not like the planet cant defend itself against nihilus attack. If you can speculate that the planet sekot can get drained i can also speculate that the planet has the fallanasi looping technique to defend against nihilus attack.That would be a retarded speculation on your part, then, considering Sekot has never even come into contact with the Fallanassi.
A character being fallible - as all would be - has no bearing on this situation whatsoever. He's not talking about someone's powers or qualities, i.e. Revan being the "heart of the Force," or Sidious being the "greatest Sith Lord," which are open to interpretation. He's stating something that happened, and that's it. Nihilus raised the ship and continued to hold it together by his own power - end of story.
Violent2Dope
Why is Tobin so "fallible" as you say? I've heard that since he knows little of the Force, he must be wrong, all he friggin needs is eyes to see Nihilus lift his fleet.
Darth Sexy
I don't recall a fleet being lifted. I may be wrong. I recall him lifting the Ravager and holding it with his will. But that's the debatable point. How can he hold it with his will if it didn't fall apart when he died? Is there some kind of technique that lets the ship stay together long after the power behind it is dead?
Violent2Dope
Maybe, then again maybe it would take a little bit of time for it to actually fall apart, but the bombs blew up before it could?
Manslayer
Originally posted by Faunus
That would be a retarded speculation on your part, then, considering Sekot has never even come into contact with the Fallanassi. I said that on purpose considering that they themselves
has made speculations
Originally posted by Faunus
He's stating something that happened, and that's it. Nihilus raised the ship and continued to hold it together by his own power - end of story. Was he there to see it? Simple answer, no he wasnt and he said A fleet NOT A SHIP was lifted by nihilus. Loading screen states he only pulled the ravager from the gravity wells and did not mention other ships.
Thanks for confirming my point. He lifted the ship and not a fleet
Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Just because Tobin is fallible doesn't mean he's wrong. Just that he COUDL be wrong. And nothing says he is. The fact that he wasnt on malachor but somewhere else speaks for itself. He wasnt there and he didnt see shit
EDIT
The ravager was pulled out of malachor long before nihilus met tobin i believe so i doubt tobin was actually there to witness anything. And IF he DID pull a fleet, how big was it?
Last i recall it was only 3 ships. 2 sith interdictors , the ravager and from what i remember the 2 sith interdictors looked new and undamaged. If it was on malachor wouldnt the ship have huge obvious dents on them if not holes?
Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Manslayer
Was he there to see it? Simple answer, no he wasnt and he said A fleet NOT A SHIP was lifted by nihilus. Loading screen states he only pulled the ravager from the gravity wells and did not mention other ships.
At the same time, the loading screen never states that Nihilus only pulled the Ravager and nothing else. However, if he did pull multiple ships up, where are the rest of them. It's strange that we don't see any other vessels being used by him. But that still doesn't mean that they cannot exist. Regardless of the fact that Tobin claimed Nihilus lifted a fleet, I don't think we can go with what he's claimed, as many inuniverse characters have made claims that were false (such as Han Solo for instance). There is evidence pointing both ways, but what there is in favor of the fleet idea I don't believe to be sufficient proof of such an event ever happening.
On to Sekot, NJO Luke was outright afraid of what would happen if she ever fell to the Darkside. We saw Sekot creating a Coral Skipper with the Force and making it appear real, then destroy it during the later NJO books. Sekot was also capable of turning the tides of the GA Fleet during the final battle of the NJO (the seventh of Corusant I believe) on her own. She was stated to have been sending plumes of fire into space that were half a kilometer wide as well as other such things. Basically, Luke appears to have been fearful of her becoming Dark for good reason.
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