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Jedi Master vs. Sith Lord in an all-out fight.

All out fight? Exar Kun is superior to Mace Windu in force abilities. They are both saber prodigies but Mace has his Vaapad and Shatterpoint which would be advantageous to him. Exar Kun has a unique saber and style which would be advantageous to him. However, with Kun's force abilities, sith magic, and amulet blast, Mace doesn't stand a chance in an all out fight.

I'd say Mace would win in a saber fight, but it would be very, very close, however, like Darth Sexy said, Mace has Vaapad, and he did beat Sidious amongst other people, Kun could likely beat Sidious, too, but it would be extremely close (I'm talking saber duel here). Mace has fought Asajj before when she used a double-bladed lightsaber, and fought Asajj, Sora and Grievous and beat them all and they used 2 or more blades at once, so he knows how to fight opponents who wield multiple sabers at once.



However, Kun is stronger w/ the Force. Overall? Kun likely wins, however, it would be ridiculously close.

Mace IMO.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I'd say Mace would win in a saber fight, but it would be very, very close, however, like Darth Sexy said, Mace has Vaapad, and he did beat Sidious amongst other people, Kun could likely beat Sidious, too, but it would be extremely close (I'm talking saber duel here). Mace has fought Asajj before when she used a double-bladed lightsaber, and fought Asajj, Sora and Grievous and beat them all and they used 2 or more blades at once, so he knows how to fight opponents who wield multiple sabers at once.
I stated that Mace's shatterpoint allowed him to gain the advantage with a saber, otherwise they would have been equals, with Sidious out of practice for 13 years. Just because Mace "beat" Sidious doesn't mean Exar Kun would. Exar Kun doesn't have that same advantage Mace has and Kun has had considerably less time with a saber than either Sidious or Mace..




In an all out fight it wouldn't be that close, seeing as how Kun's force powers are beyond Mace.

Sidious' force powers were beyond mace's and he got his ass kicked.

Mace.

Originally posted by joesdabest1
Sidious' force powers were beyond mace's and he got his ass kicked.

Um that's because Sidious decided to be overconfident and engage him in saber combat. By the time he threw his lightning at Mace, it was too late.

So why do you think exar will not be overconfident and not engage mace in saber combat? He does not use offensive powers against Ulic or Vodo, 2 fights in his prime.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
He does not use offensive powers against Ulic or Vodo, 2 fights in his prime.

Technically his prime would be when he fought vodo since that is when he created his new saber and he already knew he could defeated vodo since he pretty much defeated him as a padawan. And when they fought in the senate exar was basically toying with him.

My point is, this is an all out fight, not a saber match. In an all out fight, Sidious would destroy Mace, but he lost the saber fight. In an all out fight, Kun would also destroy Mace.

I don't think so. Looking purely at Kun's arsenal of force powers I can't recall any moves he posses that would result in "destroying" Mace, though I haven't read Totj in a really long time, so I might be glossing over something.

I give Mace the majority 6/10, however it would indeed be a very, very close fight.

Look no further than I, Jedi. Regardless of him using Kyp's body, his offensive arsenal was evident. Just because he didn't use it during his time means absolutely nothing. All it says is that Kun was above and beyond everyone during his time, and therefore had no need to use offensive force powers.

Hm.. I forgot about I,Jedi and the Jedi Order trilogy. Yeah.. overwhelming Luke was pretty cool. Didn't he get owned by like a bunch of Padawans in that book though ?

hasnt it been said and isnt it canon that sidious is the most powerful sith ever? if so then since mace can beat him he can beat any sith? please dont get defensive or call me names because of this reply i just heard that sidious was the most powerful

That's a very illogical way of looking at it. Mace is by far the most efficient light saber combatant against the dark side. However, in an all out fight Sidious would annihilate him. In an all out fight, so would Kun.

Wouldn't Mace's vaapad counter exar's darkside powers?

I don't know how Vaapad is supposed to counter sith magic, or Kun's amulet blasts, which are larger than a human being.

Sith magic, what sort of sith magic are offensive powers?

His black lightning freezing snakes thingy, his blast on Aleema, his amulets..

You are still to prove that exar kun's powers surpassed mace's ones. I never saw exar kun destroy half army of super battle droids with with the force alone... Besides, with vaadpad, shatterpoint and hi sincredibly skill, Exar is cannon fodder for Mace...

What do you mean? His force powers were good enough to keep all of Luke's students in check. His force powers were above and beyond everyone at his time. Some of his techniques had no defenses for them. Him being superior to Mace in the force is not a debate, it's a fact. If you want something to argue, argue saber combat, if it will even come to that.

like what

I hope you didn't forget that kun was using not only his power as also kyp's one, 1 jedi said to be very close to the "grandson" of the force, Luke Skywalker himself in pure force power...



Show me proof saying that the other force users of his time were as strong as guys like windu or yoda



Yeah, like what?



Why, was it stated?



So, kun also beats mace windu in saber combat, the ultimate master of the deadliest lightsaber style, the man who beat the greatest sith lord ever, one of the greatest lightsaber duelists in history and surely one in the top 3 from the PT times, the time from the greatest duelists, stated by Lucas himself?

Originally posted by kamhal
I hope you didn't forget that kun was using not only his power as also kyp's one, 1 jedi said to be very close to the "grandson" of the force, Luke Skywalker himself in pure force power...
Kyp's alleged powers aren't the issue here. And I'm talking about when Kun choked 20 of his students, without Kyp. His black snakes were also said to have no defense.




Why would I have to? Windu isn't on Yoda's level with the force, Mace is a saber combatant. Exar Kun was stated to have completely mastered Sadow's teachings, various sith magic, all of which DIED with him. That means Mace doesn't know about it.





I never stated this, I said you can argue this point because it would be a close one. I personally believe Mace would defeat Kun due to his unique shatterpoint ability that sent Palpatine on his ass.

Mace Windu takes this.

Exar crushes him in a Force battle, but given that we've never seen the full extent of Kun's saber prowess, I can't say he'd defeat Mace in a duel.

Wow, an Antediluvian and myself agree on this matter. However, the issue in the saber combat is Mace's shatterpoint, which as Janus said isn't infallible, but was enough to put the most powerful sith in the sw universe on his ass.

I'm not going to argue the parameters of a Force contest between Mace Windu and Exar Kun, as Windu was able to, when immersed in the dark depths of Vaapad, to fend off against a storm of Force lightning wielded by "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power" (confirmed in the Complete Visual Dictionary). However, I will also say that, like Sidious, Exar seems to outmatch Mace in the Force and that Sidious's lightning was repulsed only when Mace was immersed in Vaapad -- which according to the novelization, takes a bit of time. Should Kun pull off an amulet blast or whatnot before such an event, I could see him defeating Mace with the Force.

However, I'd wager that it's nigh-impossible for a dark sider to defeat Mace Windu in a prolonged lightsaber duel -- quite possibly DE Sidious himself. Now, my justification for such is the novelization's canon confirmation on the nature of Vaapad and shatterpoint. The fact that he forced Count Dooku to flee from him on Boz Pity (even after the Sith Lord instructed his minions to "leave the Jedi to him!" and then defeated Dooku's even more powerful master, Sidious, in a lightsaber duel (though granted, Sidious had not touched a lightsaber for 13 years prior to that duel) gives me reason to think so. That Vaapad and Shatterpoint apply in all cases -- unless the opponent's form and character is absolutely flawless (is Kun perfect?).

Kun, like the Force, would have to be quick about executing a victory. Otherwise, I'd say Mace's Vaapad eventually nullifies any saber-oriented advantages the Dark Lord may have -- and eventually beheads him in a most brutal fashion.

Well then would Kun rush him with the force or would his sith arrogance blind him to the point of challening mace to saber combat?

I am still to know who kun will beat mace with the force when mace stopped sidious' lightning, one with "unlimited power"...

I'm guessing you tend to take things a bit literally, then.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Well then would Kun rush him with the force or would his sith arrogance blind him to the point of challening mace to saber combat?

Dunno. I believe that we'll have to just debate this on what each character is capable of rather than "what we think" they can do. At the same time, you'd think Sidious, who is head and shoulders above Kun in the brains department, wouldn't have done something so stupid.

Overconfidence was his weakness..

Do you think so? I suppose it's rather possible -- and likely the exact reason behind his defeat.

But personally, I rather doubt it. Throughout the prequel trilogy and the events surrounding it, Darth Sidious does not exhibit anything near the level of hubris that he depicts in the original trilogy. Though he's not averse to using himself as bait or putting his own life on the line for one of his schemes, for the most part, he seems rather rational and calculating; most of his 'defeats' -- few they were -- were based on the ineptitude or arrogance of his underlings rather than he himself. Consider that even after rending Yoda unconscious, Palpatine reconsiders dueling Yoda, a moment he supposedly had "waited a long time for", based on his assessment of Yoda's power.

So, personally, I come to one of two conclusions:

a.) Palpatine orchestrated and staged the events of his duel with Mace Windu and the Jedi companions.

b.) Palpatine was simply unable to overpower Mace Windu with a lightsaber in a prolonged duel due to the nature of Vaapad and shatterpoint detection.

'A' is possible in that the Dark Lord is certainly capable of such a feat, since the man managed to worm his way into effective domination of the galaxy -- orchestrating a war and multiple crises for over a decade without Masters Yoda and Windu being any the wiser. Essentially, he is clever enough to pull it off. However, there is no canon evidence supporting it. Ergo, I conclude that 'B' is the correct option.

Whether Palpatine could have overpowered Mace at all at that point is purely speculative. However, your point might have some merit, as Palpatine -- despite being unarmed and in an inferior position -- was able to nearly kill Mace with Force lightning through sheer force, as he was the one who was bearing the brunt of the lightning's weakness. Lucas himself said that when Sidious ended the futile assault, he wasn't weakened by it. Whereas I can't say the same for Mace.

Then again, Palpatine and Kun are two different animals. And according to Lightsnake, Exar Kun is extremely arrogant himself.

I don't see Exar losing. He's just too powerful.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I don't see Exar losing. He's just too powerful.

Perhaps strictly in a Force fight. Otherwise, I don't see him beating Mace.

Originally posted by Gideon
Do you think so? I suppose it's rather possible -- and likely the exact reason behind his defeat.

But personally, I rather doubt it. Throughout the prequel trilogy and the events surrounding it, Darth Sidious does not exhibit anything near the level of hubris that he depicts in the original trilogy. Though he's not averse to using himself as bait or putting his own life on the line for one of his schemes, for the most part, he seems rather rational and calculating; most of his 'defeats' -- few they were -- were based on the ineptitude or arrogance of his underlings rather than he himself. Consider that even after rending Yoda unconscious, Palpatine reconsiders dueling Yoda, a moment he supposedly had "waited a long time for", based on his assessment of Yoda's power.
Which is why I'm saying he was overconfident. I think he believed the only one who could truly challenge him was Yoda. So went into a fight with Mace and got put on his ass by Vaapad+Shatterpoint.


It's possible but rather unlikely, otherwise he wouldn't be "overpowered". Events were too coincidental to be planned. He kills 3 jedi masters but suddenly stalls Mace? Unlikely. I don't think he really believed that Anakin would really turn when he came in.


THis seems to be the most logical conclusion based on evidence..

'
We are in agreement.


Which proves that Sidious is not only Mace's superior in the force, but he would have wtfpwned him with the lightning had he not been lying down.



Is that why he told Ulic NOT to attack the republic? His arrogance is warranted because he is miles and miles ahead of everyone in his time.

Kun is arrogant, but not moreso than any other considerably powerful Sith Lord. And considering his young age and the fact that in his time, he was virtually untouchable by any other individual, I'd have agree with DS that it's well-earned. The really arrogant, hotheaded one would be Ulic.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I don't see Exar losing. He's just too powerful.
I'm curious-will there be a point in time where you can actually stand and back this 'Exar trumps everyone in the PT in everything' assertion up?

Lightsnake, nobody is saying Exar Kun pwns the PT jedi. But based on all of the evidence, he is a force powerhouse and superior to Mace in this category. In terms of sheer lightsaber skills, Mace has the advantage.

Nobody but Glentract, apparently

I'd have to say, Mace's training and expertise makes him a good candidate to end Kun a la saber duel. In particular, his saber mastery of Vaapad implies that he mastered other forms (which is a prerequisite for the form itself) and it's a very dangerous form overall. His Shatterpoint ability, while not exactly unique (Mace notes that many powerful jedi have the ability; his is simply more intuitive and requires less concentration) is still a definate plus. Kun's good. The best Vodo's ever trained and he did beat his master twice in a saber duel, the second time requiring little effort whatsoever. And Ulic who is himself a considerable saber prodigy was unable to best Kun, yet even this is considerably little next to Mace's more visible, extended record.

I don't see Mace curbstomping Kun, but I do see him possibly beating him if the duel goes on long enough.

As for Force...

Mace Windu is no Force-slouch. He could manipulate a landslide in Shatterpoint as well as maintain Force-bonds, sense the location of his own lightsaber while being clouded by the darkside (While Vastor had it), and could dominate mulitple akk-dogs who were already bonded with other Force users with literally no effort. He is a Jedi Master and one not to be taken lightly.

Mace Windu concedes that he is not on the same level as Yoda, and Yoda's own considerations as noted in Dark Rendezvous note that Dooku himself was likely higher in Force mastery (Which is understandable, considering how young Mace is compared to both of them).

However, Exar Kun is likely on a whole different level. Whether it's sheer power and will or his tapping into the secrets of the ancients, Kun is more than a match for Odan-Urr. As you can see in the below scan, he sneaks up on the Jedi loremaster, yanks the holocron out of his grip, and then resists the Force-stripping attack that Nomi later used to strip Ulic.

http://i14.tinypic.com/53t01uf.jpg

He then kills Odan-urr with as much effort as it takes for me to type "WTF". Granted, Odan-Urr notes he is "old", but he is certainly not helpless. And no Jedi Master becomes weaker in the Force as he ages; if anything, it seems the reverse. The very fact that Exar Kun shrugged off a Force-blocking attack Odan-urr notes was used on Sith lords in Naga Sadow's time speaks measures for his power. His amulet of pwnage simply puts the icing on the cake.

In a Force duel, Kun pretty much walks all over Mace.

Since any real battle would include both saber and Force usage available, it's likely that Kun would simply overpower Mace with his array of abilities, and then destroy him outright.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
I'd have to say, Mace's training and expertise makes him a good candidate to end Kun a la saber duel. In particular, his saber mastery of Vaapad implies that he mastered other forms (which is a prerequisite for the form itself) and it's a very dangerous form overall. His Shatterpoint ability, while not exactly unique (Mace notes that many powerful jedi have the ability; his is simply more intuitive and requires less concentration) is still a definate plus. Kun's good. The best Vodo's ever trained and he did beat his master twice in a saber duel, the second time requiring little effort whatsoever. And Ulic who is himself a considerable saber prodigy was unable to best Kun, yet even this is considerably little next to Mace's more visible, extended record.
Erm, just a note here: Kun was also unable to best Ulic.


Granted. But then, where's the proof that Odan is anywhere close to people like Yoda or Mace, both of whom have displayed quite a bit more ability?
Odan's a Jedi Master, sure...but to what level? We've got no onscreen showings of his abilities-one instance of battle meditation in GAOTS

For starters, the amulet is never once used on any single individual who would be capable of fighting Exar like Mace. Not only have its abilities been exaggerated to hell and back, but the opening beams are more than within Mace's capacity to dodge them.

If that, along with killing a Jedi Master with so little showings whatsoever are Kun's only credentials, the case for him with the force isn't so strong.



In any duel he was in, Kun tends to disdain use of the Force and go for a saber battle.
Mace has just as much a chance of beating Kun here.

Correct. In fact, the narration refers to both as "Master swordsmen". A nod at Kun's saber prowess at this time.



Displayed more? Or been given more airtime? Obviously, Mace and Yoda have tons of more material referencing their abilities. Granted, I don't have pictures of Odan-Urr force-slapping Sith lords left and right, but his Force knowledge should be considerable, seeing as he founded the library of Ossus, including the Sith holocron found and Jedi information stored therein. I mean, if you want me to compare his limited screentime to Yoda and Mace's movie appearances and novel/comic book/video game appearances, well, I guess he loses at everything.

His age is at this point is what? 600+ years? He's the eldest master we see on-campus, and he shows Nomi how to effectively block a user from the Force, something he describes as terrible yet sometimes neccessary. He points out that he developed this in the waning days of the Hyperspace Wars, fighting the renegade Sith as he embarked on his journey to scour knowledge from the invaders. This technique is effective enough to put Ulic on his ass, and it worked on previous Sith.

Even if I were to claim that Odan-Urr was a substandard Jedi master with no Force powers and no way of capably handling himself in combat (Which would be absolutely ridiculous), his ability to turn off the Force-switch on people makes him a dangerous opponent in itself. I mean really- we don't see him taking a crap either.... Should I assume he's incapable?



Actually, the amulet's ability to focus and multiply hate and the darkside is noted in the narration, and Aleema and Ulic could not defend against Kun's amulet attack, which he apparently learned to control after the slaying of the Sadow-created wyrm. Narration by the amulet's creator says that the amulet only becomes more powerful, and that even Kun was having difficulty to control the power.

Ulic, with the amulet's mate, and Aleema were less effective. Kun floored Aleema and Ulic was manually apprehended by a bunch of his jedi friends while wielding it.

Since the blasts are very large and Kun, even untrained with the weapon, can use it and his own Force-fueled agility to manhandle the wyrm while still pelting away... it stands to reason that it's an effective weapon. Certainly one that Mace has never seen before. I'm not saying Mace is a slowpoke, but he can only dodge so many of these blasts before something gets to him. And if Mace can't close the distance because Kun is raining hell on him, I don't see him winning in a saber match.



It seems that Kun only challenges those to saber duels when he has an ego-boost to gain from the victory (Vodo, the Ulic "the pretender". Others he just tossed around like garbage (Sylvar, Odan-Urr, Aleema, etc.). He certainly didn't dally around with Freedon Nadd's spirit either.

Just a note; I think Vodo is six hundred years old. If I'm not mistaken, Odan is well over a thousand.

I think you're right. I couldn't remember exactly.

If the ancient Sith were defeated a thousand years before Kun's time, then that'd be the case.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Displayed more? Or been given more airtime? Obviously, Mace and Yoda have tons of more material referencing their abilities. Granted, I don't have pictures of Odan-Urr force-slapping Sith lords left and right, but his Force knowledge should be considerable, seeing as he founded the library of Ossus, including the Sith holocron found and Jedi information stored therein. I mean, if you want me to compare his limited screentime to Yoda and Mace's movie appearances and novel/comic book/video game appearances, well, I guess he loses at everything.
Displayed more+given more airtime.. So? Also, it is unknown as to what sith lords Odan Urr destroyed, but aside from Sadow and Kressh, nothing was displayed by ANY of those sith lords. Granted, Odan Urr has a vast amount of force knowledge under his belt, but how does this exactly translate into offensive weapons in combat?


By GAOTS he's at least what, 30? So he's at least a thousand by the time Kun wtfpwns him. His main technique is the wall of light, but we saw how that worked on Kun, whether it was Kun's force abilities or much more logically, the amulet.


Dangerous yes, but last time I checked, one great force ability doesn't make one a great combatant, but I understand what you're saying.




As far as we know, there is no defense for an amulet blast of that magnitude. One can argue that Luke was able to block AT-AT blasts, but they're all made up of different properties, not to mention one is force based.



Yep. The only way Kun is guaranteed winning the saber fight, is to use his amulet blasts. Of course, that wouldn't really be a saber fight would it? Mace certainly has the advantage with the saber and while (as you said), he's no slouch with the force, Kun is considerably superior to him in that department.




He didn't dally around with Freedon Nadd when he was completely untrained, and oblivious to the powers of the ancient sith. Once he saw the true power, he didn't hesitate to extinguish Freedon Nadd's spirit.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Correct. In fact, the narration refers to both as "Master swordsmen". A nod at Kun's saber prowess at this time.
Yes. However, it's a bit less impressive in the phrasing that they stalemated, rather than 'famed saber prodigy Ulic was unable to defeat Kun'


Displayed more, yes. To be pretty fair, Odan had twelve issues of GAOTS and FOTSE, along with appearances in DLOTS to display abilities that would put him on a high pedestal. He fails to even fight in the Great Hyperspace War. While his knowledge should indeed be considerable, his combat prowess with the Force has little to no backing

Well, that and everything else- there's really nothing going for Odan being near their level.

And again: being one of the smartest masters around-although Ood Bnar is apparently quite a bit older, doesn't make Odan the most powerful. At least one Jedi in the PT Order exceeds Yoda in age, but who's got more power and knowledge.

In the hands of Vodo and his entire coterie, and in Nomi's hands? Yes. And on 'previous Sith' is a very, very broad term, consisting the Sith council went extinct along with the vast majority of Sith Lords without Odan having ever fought whatsoever.

Don't hurl a totally unrelated precept that has zero relation out there and don't polarize this. Odan is a Jedi Master and a dangerous opponent by definition.
It's a simple fact there is absolutely nothing putting him on tiers that people like Yoda, Mace and Dooku would occupy



Aleema was knocked out, yes...although when, I ask you, was Ulic getting a full on blast of it? Last I remember, Kun simply ignites his saber and engages Ulic while exchanging trash talk

When did Ulic ever attempt to use it the way Kun did, now? And not many will try to claim Aleema as a power house

For starters, Ulic is clearly not rational at that point and says numerous times he doesn't want to harm his friends or Nomi. Kun is not handicapped by either of those factors. Nor are the Amulets the same type. If Ulic is firing massive blasts from his hands rather than waving the amulet around while in close quarters, I don't see things going down the right way.


For starters, look at the amulet when he starts blasting. The blasts are not 'very large' there. Mace is a person who can dodge repeated turbolaser blasts. Destructive power's another thing, but it has to actually hit.
Never mind the rate of fire, preparation time...all unknown.

Do you REALLY think Mace "Shatterpoint" Windu is only going to give Kun a moving target? Noting that Mace's speed exceeds anything Kun has shown us, he is more than capable of closing the distanceas he dodges until he forces Kun into a fight on his own terms.
Mace's dodged extremely larged destructive blasts for extended periods of time.
And Mace is noted as being one of few Jedi Masters who is allowed to and able to study the Sith artifacts and holocrons.
even supposing he is ignorant of the Amulet. If he sees Kun raise it, he's going to know to get the hell out of dodge.

That is a huge if. Also accepting Mace doesn't attempting a force attack while Kun's trying to get a blast off



For one, he was in a bit of a time issue with Odan.
And would you really put Mace in with the latter group instead of the former? He's only one of the finest Jedi ever to live. Not only that, Kun said himself: he's sick of Nadd manipulating him.

Firstly, without having to quote every single point about Odan-Urr, I'll note the following;

Odan-Urr during the Hyperspace Wars is noted as being more a student than a fighter. This is apparent. Saying that because he didn't whup ultimate ass during his appearances during this time has absolutely no bearing on his status a thousand years later. So unless Odan-Urr has been in a severe coma or busy doing crossword puzzles, one would assume that he spent that time becoming a badass Jedi master, even if only in Force knowledge.

Note that Yoda himself didn't run around killing people with his lightsaber and yet when the time came, he was more than capable. Ancient Jedi Masters are, by definition, incredible users of the Force. They have the time to spend studying it more than their younger opponents do. And yet none of that age or knowledge prevented Odan-Urr from being effortlessly destroyed. You can either accept that as proof of Kun's Force powers at this point, or you can dismiss it and belittle Odan-Urr; at this point I don't care. I am not going back and forth on this issue any longer.



Ulic doesn't get any amulet blasts his way, you're right. Kun just starts trash talking and it turns into WWE.



Kun was able to generate the blasts moments after donning the amulet; Ulic seemed incapable of using them to the same effect. And the amulet is noted as being the mate of Kun's. So either it's meant to compliment or defend against Kun's amulet's abilities or it has the same ones. I don't see it doing the former, and Aleema uses the same amulet to make smaller, less effective blasts. Kun's, by comparison, make those puny. And no, she's not a Force god, but she's able enough to make massive phantoms and illusions and has some knowledge of the Sith arts.



You mean these blasts?

http://i16.tinypic.com/6bx7fcn.jpg

Yes, those look so damn small.

As for rate of fire and prep time, there's absolutely no concerns there. Kun fires them back to back throughout the battle and he needs no prep time whatsoever. And he's doing this while moving all over the place. He doesn't sit still and chant or anything that stupid.



What, so you give him a middle name, he wins? Please. Mace has "more speed" because he exists in two different forms of media: a novel about him and the movies. Kun's appearances are limited by their own form of media; comics. It's not aesthetically pleasing and fair to show blurs, nor is it exactly easy to rely such. However, if you actually opened your comics you could see that Kun is moving all over the place during the fight with the wyrm while unleashing those blasts.

He is not going to give Mace "Shatterpoint" Windu a stationary target, either.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Firstly, without having to quote every single point about Odan-Urr, I'll note the following;

Odan-Urr during the Hyperspace Wars is noted as being more a student than a fighter. This is apparent. Saying that because he didn't whup ultimate ass during his appearances during this time has absolutely no bearing on his status a thousand years later. So unless Odan-Urr has been in a severe coma or busy doing crossword puzzles, one would assume that he spent that time becoming a badass Jedi master, even if only in Force knowledge.
Afterwards, Odan devoted his life to nothing more than being a learner and a teacher of knowledge alone in the hopes he'd never have to pick up a lightsaber again.
Again: knowledge is one thing. Power is another completely and Odan has absolutely nothing going for him in that department. He's old, he's wise, he's knowledgeable. It ends there from what we know.
and he didn't need to whoop ass. He would have needed to do do something. His single fight is against 'random generic thug'

Most unlike Odan, I have never, ever seen Yoda fail to actually fight during a large scale. very unlike Odan, even into his old age, Yoda was still shown as extremely formidable and deadly

That'd be because he wasn't up to Kun in power. You need both, and considering we've nothing going for Odan there?
And also, that rule has a lot of exceptions to it.

Of course it's a big point in Kun's favor.
Not enough to put him over Mace, who is logically much more skilled and powerful than Odan-Urr. I think you can accept that as well



I thought so



When, I ask you, is Ulic in a situation remotely similar, let alone desperate enough to start shooting blasts out? When did Ulic even attempt this?

It's also seen as worn in a totally different place, having different capabilities and just seems another animal entirely. What it means as a 'mate' to Kun's is pretty ambiguous

when was this? I remember her using Sith magic...

'Some knowledge' of the Sith arts is absolutely nothing to a Dark Lord of the Sith. and as Nomi showed, illusions aren't really so effective when dealing with a good force user



At maximum? Twice the size of Kun's body. Hardly as massive as they've been made out to be.




Considering he starts by chanting? And given he appears to be stationary before and while he fires and only moves to give himself another vantage point?



That is far too bad for Kun then. Either there is evidence showing he can compete with Mace for speed in his appearances, or he doesn't and we assume someone whose speed was so incredibly dizzying even by Jedi standards has the edge there.

And considering the comics had, at numerous points, broken a barrier for 'aesthetically pleasing' with the awful artwork in several places.

Moreover, the comic uses a narrator to commute things at many times. KJA could easily have relied on that to showcase feats of speed by Kun.

'While unleashing' is false. 'moves, then fires' is another story.
And how fast is he moving now? The comic is quite bad at depicting it...and considering he's up against a massive stationary Sith wyrm and a bunch of terrified Massassi...

Nor is he going to get a hit on him with the blasts whatsoever on someone who can dodge massive turbolaser shots throughout an entire battle. ...nevermind how Mace can move through a storm of hailfire missiles to his objective.
Mace has to close the gap and force Kun into a fight on his terms and from what we've seen of his speed and abilities? That's not outside his capability

For the last time, Aleema doesn't use "amulet blasts". THis is totally ridiculous because:
A. She gave the sith talisman/amulet to Ulic before she threw these so called "blasts" at Kun
B. She threw sith magic at him
C. Kun threw that SAME sith magic back at her, but a lot more potent and on a level beyond Aleema. He then mentioned that Nadd taught her the beginnings of sith magic, but he has learned "Everything". Janus, you KNOW they weren't amulet blasts, why even attempt to bring up this point?

Mace would win in both a saber fight, and a force fight.

Mace is argublly a level 10 in lightsaber skills.

Lol shut the f*ck up and get off KMC, your obviously not welcomed here seeing you don't know how to construct arguements and bumping old threads

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Lol shut the f*ck up and get off KMC, your obviously not welcomed here seeing you don't know how to construct arguements and bumping old threads

Why dont you STOP CURSING PEOPLE OUT, AND INSULTING THEM.

Your just a pitifull fat lonely loser with no life and no freinds, all you know how to do is go on the forums and curse people out. Why dont you get off the computor for once, and get an education? you a low class loser thats not even worth talking to. The fact that your alive is an insult to the human race.

Get a life, and stop cursing people out on the internet. You need to go to school, and learn manners.

Good luck with life Mr "f_ck you"

Originally posted by Darth_noodle
Why dont you STOP CURSING PEOPLE OUT, AND INSULTING THEM.
BECAUSE YOU BUMP OLD THREADS AND MAKE BULLSHIT UP

Originally posted by Darth_noodle

Your just a pitifull fat lonely loser with no life and no freinds,
Lol if you actually went to kindergarden you would actually know how to read basic sentences, i already wrote why i was spending time on these forums, Do you see me here 24/7? No you don't i have to sleep, i have to eat, i hang out with friends, goto the movies.
Originally posted by Darth_noodle

all you know how to do is go on the forums and curse people out.
Uh what? I curse your because you ARE an idiot, your bumping old threads and your irritating the hell out of everybody.

Who? Darth hord was complaining why did you bring back 2 threads?
Originally posted by Darth_noodle

Why dont you get off the computor for once, and get an education?
Iv done that many times, simply to go out to the movies with family and friends, as for my education if you actually CAN read, i already said im on HOLIDAY
Originally posted by Darth_noodle

you a low class loser thats not even worth talking to. The fact that your alive is an insult to the human race. And thats the best comeback? So because i insulted you it makes me low class?

What about the DOG who barked back? What does that make you? An even more lowclass person who wants to start a childish cuss whom has no father no mother and want to take it out on other people because he feels suicidal?
Originally posted by Darth_noodle

Get a life, and stop cursing people out on the internet. You need to go to school, and learn manners.
I have a right to curse you, and i DO have a live, hang out with friends, school education, parties going on vacation with my family, if thats what you mean by get a life, if not then no i dont have a life.



Originally posted by Darth_noodle

Good luck with life Mr "f_ck you" Lol i thought it was "Mt shut up"? Lol?

Originally posted by GahLakTus
BECAUSE YOU BUMP OLD THREADS AND MAKE BULLSHIT UP

Lol if you actually went to kindergarden you would actually know how to read basic sentences, i already wrote why i was spending time on these forums, Do you see me here 24/7? No you don't i have to sleep, i have to eat, i hang out with friends, goto the movies.
Uh what? I curse your because you ARE an idiot, your bumping old threads and your irritating the hell out of everybody.

Who? Darth hord was complaining why did you bring back 2 threads?
Iv done that many times, simply to go out to the movies with family and friends, as for my education if you actually CAN read, i already said im on HOLIDAY
And thats the best comeback? So because i insulted you it makes me low class?

What about the DOG who barked back? What does that make you? An even more lowclass person who wants to start a childish cuss whom has no father no mother and want to take it out on other people because he feels suicidal?
I have a right to curse you, and i DO have a live, hang out with friends, school education, parties going on vacation with my family, if thats what you mean by get a life, if not then no i dont have a life.



Lol i thought it was "Mt shut up"? Lol?

My point proven.

You so low that talking to you is equal to talking to a jar of dirt, which is similar to where your mom was born, and where you were raised.

Originally posted by Darth_noodle
My point proven.

You so low that talking to you is equal to talking to a jar of dirt, which is similar to where your mom was born, and where you were raised. How do you prove a point you havn't made? Lol your pathetic loser whos parents killed themselves due to your existance

Oh wait how i forgot, i made a point that i DO have a point, so your basically saying your point is that i have a life?

Lol you dont even know what the hell your talking about.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Oh wait how i forgot, i made a point that i DO have a point, so your basically saying your point is that i have a life?

Lol you dont even know what the hell your talking about.


LMFAO!!!!!

my buddy's and I just cant get over what a loser you are LOL

"Lol you dont even know what the hell your talking about"
-GahLakTus, Dec 2007

LMFAO!!

Ok you two seriosuly need to cut off the insults. BOTH of you, it is just getting ridiculous now how you two are going back and forth in so many threads without actually trying to get somewhere. I don't care who started it but is annoying now. Get back to debating the points or don't bother posting. Just ignore the insults.

My favorite one was when Galactus was talking about how "mascular" his body is.

Originally posted by Darth_noodle
LMFAO!!!!!

my buddy's and I just cant get over what a loser you are LOL

"Lol you dont even know what the hell your talking about"
-GahLakTus, Dec 2007

LMFAO!! Lol what are you laughing at retard? Oh wait you have an invisible buddy with you? I thought you had no friends?

Because IT IS a FACT, You DONT know what your talking about, i MADE a point that i DO have a life, and you AGREED with me.

And IF you had friends, why the hell would you even want them to get involved to a petty childish scuffle on the internet unless of course you have shown very low intelligence due to the people you mix with?


@Darth hord

I am NOT going to concede, because i was ATTACKED FIRST for NO reason.

I asked kamhal to shut up and this fatherless bastard just barges in and tells me to shut up when im not even TYPING to him.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
My favorite one was when Galactus was talking about how "mascular" his body is. Having a mascular build does not necessarily mean your a mountain of muscles retard. Oh right despite the fact that going to the gym for 6 months, there isn't any slight results at all, Oh i so agree to that.

I believe the term is muscular.

Well i couldn't be bothered to spell properly when typing to a 12 year old sexy, seeing that he(darth_noob) already can't read words spelled out properly, i don't see the need to correct my spelling when i argue with a brat who attacked me for reasons unknown.