Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I'm seeing a lot of posts in here saying it was far-fetched when Magneto ripped Apocalypse's body in half in AoA. My question is, what's so hard to believe?

Apparently, Apocalypse only has molecular control over his body, Magneto has ATOMIC control over metal. Technically, Magneto has better control of Apocalypse's body.

If you were to ask me, the whole AoA storyline was far-fetched since Mags could've killed Apocalypse in their first encounter.

Magneto

Magneto can't have better control of Apocalypse's body when Apoc can turn it into any kind of substance. Substances Magneto doesn't even know what the hell is. So Magneto controlling Apocalypse's body isn't very likely.

Originally posted by llagrok
Magneto can't have better control of Apocalypse's body when Apoc can turn it into any kind of substance. Substances Magneto doesn't even know what the hell is. So Magneto controlling Apocalypse's body isn't very likely.

Do said substances still contain atoms? Are they still held together by the strong and electroweak forces?

.

Originally posted by Soljer
Do said substances still contain atoms? Are they still held together by the strong and electroweak forces?

.

No.

Can you name a few of these substances?

Originally posted by Zhao
Can you name a few of these substances?

Indeed. I'd too like to ask when Apocalypse has EVER transformed his body into matter that was no longer comprised of atoms.

Scans?

Originally posted by llagrok
No.

**** Science !

My "no" was a joke

However, seeing as Apocalypse has access to Celestial technology and god knows what, how would I be able to name any of those? In theory, he could turn himself into the substance that SS is made out of, which Magneto wasn't able to control :/

Now, has Magneto ever controlled anyone comparable to Apocalypse? 'cause I've yet to see that.

Originally posted by llagrok
My "no" was a joke

However, seeing as Apocalypse has access to Celestial technology and god knows what, how would I be able to name any of those? In theory, he could turn himself into the substance that SS is made out of, which Magneto wasn't able to control :/

Now, has Magneto ever controlled anyone comparable to Apocalypse? 'cause I've yet to see that.

Theoretically this, theoretically that.

Show me, on panel, where Apocalypse has converted his body to a substance that is not comprised of atoms.

Otherwise, anytime Magneto's ever 'controlled' someone who WAS comprised of atoms, he's 'controlled' someone comparable to Apocalypse.

Originally posted by Soljer
Do said substances still contain atoms? Are they still held together by the strong and electroweak forces?

.

Well since theres no such thin as the "electroweak force" I'll say no.

Originally posted by Soljer
Theoretically this, theoretically that.

Show me, on panel, where Apocalypse has converted his body to a substance that is not comprised of atoms.

Otherwise, anytime Magneto's ever 'controlled' someone who WAS comprised of atoms, he's 'controlled' someone comparable to Apocalypse.

So basically if Petra moved Santo, she'd be capable of moving mountains who weigh thousands of tons more?

Kk

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well since theres no such thin as the "electroweak force" I'll say no.

Since when? I thought the current explanation of the weak force was a single aspect of the unified electroweak theory. Was it proven otherwise? Am I that behind?

Originally posted by llagrok
So basically if Petra moved Santo, she'd be capable of moving mountains who weigh thousands of tons more?

Kk

So, one of apocalypses' atoms weigh thousands of tons more than someone elses?

An atom is an atom is an atom.

A grain of sand is not a mountain. Incomparable.

Originally posted by Soljer
So, one of apocalypses' atoms weigh thousands of tons more than someone elses?

An atom is an atom is an atom.

A grain of sand is not a mountain. Incomparable.

Fortunately, it's not about lifting Apocalypse and he would be fighting back.

But hey, according to your theory, Hellion should be able to restrain and control any class 100. Wow, cool

Originally posted by Soljer
Since when? I thought the current explanation of the weak force was a single aspect of the unified electroweak theory. Was it proven otherwise? Am I that behind?

Damn I thought it was a typo.

Still the (upon looking it up) the electroweak force would hardly come into play unless one of them was collapsing the universe around them.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Damn I thought it was a typo.

Still the (upon looking it up) the electroweak force would hardly come into play unless one of them was collapsing the universe around them.

I was just using the whole 'magneto is unified field theory' thing-a-majigie. You know. To whip out the technijigie terms.

Originally posted by Soljer
I was just using the whole 'magneto is unified field theory' thing-a-majigie. You know. To whip out the technijigie terms.

Drop some book learnin' on dem.

Apocalypse for the win

First off..it was AOA
Secondly Nate Grey gave Apocalypse a beating then Magneto joined him...it was only after Nate took on Holocaust that mags and Apoc were alone

Magneto doesn't control all atoms.

He is not white crown Phoenix.

The bulk of his power is control of energy and metal through magnetic fields. nothing more.

Originally posted by starlock
Apocalypse for the win

First off..it was AOAWhat are you talking about?

How is this relevant?

"This person is on your ignore list"

Storm comes n n soloz dem both!111 Shez got da liteninz in da brane!

Originally posted by Zhao
What are you talking about?

How is this relevant?

The fight that is referenced where magneto split Apoc apart is from the Age of Apocalypse...an alternate reality...thats what i am talking about


Have a fight- two on one- and then make it a one on one, do you think that after fighting a two on one....it might be a little harder since you were being beat by two? Nate grey was created to kill Apoc...and was on his way then magneto joined him in beating apoc...if you dont think its not relevant..then i think one of us is not thinking clearly

Originally posted by Soljer
"This person is on your ignore list"

Storm comes n n soloz dem both!111 Shez got da liteninz in da brane!

You better respond that way.

You know my pimp hand is strong in these debates.

apoc wins

Magneto only beats Apacolypse via PIS. Magneto had to use magnetic energies to "grip" Poccy and tear him apart. Poccy has the ability to absorb and rechannel energies used against him via Bishop. On top of this, he is VERY dense which would mean it should be VERY hard to tear him apart. The first ability alone would nullify Magneto being able to pull this stunt. The second part of his power (which is why he is class 100) makes it even more ridiculous.

Powerful characters well beyond Magneto's power class are constantly being written down in Magneto arcs (Storm, Phoenix, Apacolypse, Thor to name a few) as they display MUCH higher power levels in arcs not involving him than what they are given in his arcs and posters here wonder why I don't respect Magneto...

magneto is now able to control atoms???? show me, where?

Originally posted by FrothByte
magneto is now able to control atoms???? show me, where?

Well when he moves ermm


Oh yeah and he once made a metal/plastic comb out of air. A couple other things.

Nothing consistent afaik but always nice to bring up when he's in a rut. Sorta like we do with Storm or Hulk or Wolverine or Darkseid or INSERT NAME OF BELOVED COMICBOOK CHARACTER]

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well when he moves ermm


Oh yeah and he once made a metal/plastic comb out of air. A couple other things.

Nothing consistent afaik but always nice to bring up when he's in a rut. Sorta like we do with Storm or Hulk or Wolverine or Darkseid or INSERT NAME OF BELOVED COMICBOOK CHARACTER]

Magneto had to strain like he was constapated to create that itty bitty comb by pulling atoms together. Poccy's body structure is MUCH more dense and durable than that comb was and again, he had to use magnetic energies. Poccy can absorb that.

Magneto controls magneti fields, nothing more.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/apocvsmags.png

Without outside assistance, Apocalypse cannot defeat Magneto. Part of Apocalypse's molecular composition is nano-technology based. Furthermore, Apocalypse is partially metallic. Magneto controls electromagnetism, which means that he has absolute control of the material Apocalypse is made out of and the energy it runs on. Apocalypse is a sitting duck.

Furthermore, Apocalypse has the techno-organic virus, which makes him completely vulnerable to Magneto. We know that Magneto can work with the techno-organic virus because he took apart the parts of Cable's body that were infected with it in "Fatal Attractions," and he was able to manipulate Warlock (which his race, the Technarchy, is the source of the virus) and the infected Sym when he was with the New Mutants.

Magneto already defeated Apocalypse twice; in HOM and in AOA. Almost easily, as a matter of fact.

Apocalypse crushes him easily.

No, he does not.

He does.

magneto took out apocalypse in AOA

I thought this was a non-jobbing Apoc?

Magneto defeated Apocalypse twice in the comics. That should speak for itself.

Magneto would easily win by ripping Apocalypse to pieces. Magneto has complete control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum and can draw energy and power from Earth's magnetic field. Even if Apocalypse tried to teleport, he would fail because Magneto has been able to sense when/where Nightcrawler is about to appear, and even re-route Kurt to appear somewhere else. Nightcrawler navigates along lines of electromagnetic force (similar to the way birds and fish navigate when they migrate). If Cyclops can kill Apocalypse, then so can Magneto. Furthermore, Magneto can open a black hole right on top of, or right next to, Apocalypse, open a wormhole and send him through cold outer space, blast him with electric bolts, etc. Magneto has complete control over the electromagnetic force (which is one of the four fundamental forces in the Universe), which binds all matter together. Therefore, Magneto can "unbind" Apocalypse, if you will. Apocalypse's healing factor will not be useful when he is in pieces. Magneto has also prevented mutants from using their powers by manipulating the bio-electric signals between the neurons in their nervous systems. He has actually frozen the entire group of X-men (from all the books) in place this way.

We are talking about a character who has released a worldwide electromagnetic pulse, stopped the planet from rotating, withstood blasts from Thor, Galactus and the Phoenix, yanked satellites out of orbit and withstood the detonation of several nuclear weapons.

Even at full power, Apocalypse is outclassed here.

We are talking main continuity Apoc here. Apoc has complete molecular control of himself, has low-level reality warping. Can become INTAGIBLE. Has technopathy. Can become malleable.

He stomps mags 10/10

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Magneto defeated Apocalypse twice in the comics. That should speak for itself.

Wolverine defeated Magneto (and for that matter in 616).

Now. Let's go.

AoA (not canon):
Apocalypse defeats Magneto + Bishop first. Apocalypse could kill Magneto on more than one occasion. Even at the very end when he was choking him, he could tear his head off in split second. He literally lost, because he must lose. Some people like to bring Magneto tore him split, but don't say that Apocalypse could tear Magneto easier than Magneto him. He lost only because he had to lose, literally.

HoM (not continuity):
Wanda is Magneto daughter, why did you expect.

I see Apocalypse at full power crushing Magneto just as easily as he did Stryfe. He crushes him.

Apocalypse does not have reality warping powers. I don't know where you get that impression. Magneto can overpower Apocalypse's own molecular control by drawing energy and power from Earth's magnetic field. Magneto did this to Gideon in AOA.

Kitty Pryde can also go intangible. In Uncanny #150, Magneto zapped Kitty with electricity when she tried to pass through him and he nearly killed her. As long as it can conduct electricity, it's vulnerable to him. Magneto can manipulate Apocalypse's malleable form rather easily.

You can think whatever you want, but I have comics and science to back up my side of the argument. Electromagnetism is the force that holds all matter together. It is one of the most prevalent forces in Physics. Any form of technology that Apocalypse throws at Magneto, Magneto has control over.

Without outside assistance, Apocalypse cannot defeat Magneto. Part of Apocalypse's molecular make up is nano-technology based. Magneto controls electromagnetism, which means he has absolute control of the material Apocalypse is made out of and the energy it runs on. Apocalypse is a sitting duck. Apocalypse also has the techno-organic virus, which makes him vulnerable to Magneto as well.

Magneto also has access to extremely advanced technology that is a combination of all the alien races that he has encountered.

Apocalypse touches Mags and merges with him. It's over.

and for warp, Apoc has turned people into stone, created beings ten times stronger than a human out of his limbs.

At Xplosive:

Sorry, but Magneto is more powerful than Stryfe.

What kind of a defeat was that? Magneto can heal himself by drawing energy and power from Earth's magnetic field.

Apocalypse can not "tear" Magneto. Apocalypse is partially metallic and has the techno-organic virus.

In AOA, Magneto stood down because they had his son. Do you think that Magneto would just let Holocaust and Apocalypse torture him like that, without fighting back?
Sure. Apocalypse was choking him, right before Magneto ripped him in half. So much for Apocalypse's obsession with "The Survival of the Fittest" philosophy.

What makes you think that Apocalypse can touch Magneto? Real talk. He can't.

"and for warp, Apoc has turned people into stone, created beings ten times stronger than a human out of his limbs."

Apocalypse probably used Celestial Technology to do that.

Besides, Apocalypse can control Magneto's body.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
At Xplosive:

Sorry, but Magneto is more powerful than Stryfe.

Even if he is (they are probably somewhere there), Stryfe didn't even make Apocalypse flinch. Apocalypse stomps them both.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Apocalypse can not "tear" Magneto. Apocalypse is partially metallic and has the techno-organic virus.

Hahahahahah. You are joking right?

Apocalypse at full stomps him so badly it's ridiculous. Sorry.

Exactly he can control Mag's body. Apocalypse is a mid-high herald level character.

He has gone toe-to-toe with the High Evo, and Loki. He has defeated the inhumans + BlackBolt. He has defeated Ikaris.

Really there isn't much Mags can do to a non-jobbing Nur. and please don't bring alternative realities into this.

At Xplosive:
Have you read any of my posts? LOL. It is called science. I would appreciate if you read my previous post and try to refute the points that I made.

At galact:

Apocalypse can not control Magneto's body. Magneto has complete control of his body on the cellular and molecular level. On the contrary, Magneto can easily control Apocalypse's body. What power enables Apocalypse to do this? Are you just making it up?

Mr. Sinister also defeat the High Evolutionary. What is your point. Magneto can also defeat him.

High Evo was operating at a low level when he fought Sinister.


Magneto>High Evo? Maybe. Not in power but because of mag' ability to manipulate High Evo.

Loki>>>>>>>Mags
Ikaris>=Mags

Apoc has complete mollecular control of his body. He ain't getting manipulated. And have u seen the scans of Eternals sayng that Magneto is not a threat to humanity/eternals because he is JUST A MORTAL while Apoc is because he is IMMORTAL?

Again, Magneto can overpower Apocalypse's own molecular control.

"And have u seen the scans of Eternals sayng that Magneto is not a threat to humanity/eternals because he is JUST A MORTAL while Apoc is because he is IMMORTAL?"

Really? Releasing a worldwide electromagnetic pulse, creating black holes, opening worm holes, stopping the planet from rotating and having complete control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum is not threatening? When has Apocalypse been perceived as this threatening?

Magneto did defeat Thor in the comics, by the way.

Swell!

You just make claims and don't back them up. How is Magneto going to manipulate Apoc while it is one of Apoc's powers to have complete molecular control over his body?

Apocalypse jobs. Loses because of CIS and PIS because he is too damn POWERFUL. Just like Galactus losing to earth heroes.

A non-jobbing Apoc will always win this fight, even in his worst day.

Magneto is no match against someone with complete control over his molecules to the subatomic level.

AoA was horrid writing for Apoc's part.

"You just make claims and don't back them up. How is Magneto going to manipulate Apoc while it is one of Apoc's powers to have complete molecular control over his body?"

Because he alrady has in AOA. Magneto can overpower Apocalypse by drawing power and energy from Earth's magnetic field. LOL. I already told you that.

"Apocalypse jobs. Loses because of CIS and PIS because he is too damn POWERFUL. Just like Galactus losing to earth heroes."

So does the Shadow King, but Apocalypse is not as powerful as people think. They just assume so because of his name. Sounds much more menacing.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
At Xplosive:
Have you read any of my posts? LOL. It is called science. I would appreciate if you read my previous post and try to refute the points that I made.

You said Apocalypse wouldn't be able to tear him apart, while Logan claws went easily through Magneto (I think more times). You said Apocalypse is metallic, while he controls his own body, atomic structure. What don't you get?

Originally posted by pinksushi1
On the contrary, Magneto can easily control Apocalypse's body.

Not a chance.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Again, Magneto can overpower Apocalypse's own molecular control.

No he can't.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Magneto did defeat Thor in the comics, by the way.

I remember Loki manipulating some villains and Magneto was among them, while Loki couldn't do anything to Apocalypse.
Black Bolt ***** slapped Magneto, while he couldn't do anything to Apocalypse and he had big help.

About Thor. As I remember he only took his hammer, but he saw he can't win and escaped. He was running away from Thor.

When Apocalypse fought HE, Apocalypse had the upper hand and even taking him against his will and schooled him. Little later HE and Thor fought, Thor wasn't match for him. HE was good back then and would crush Magneto and Sinister in that state.

Cable said to Iron Man, Thor and Captain America that Apocalypse is so dangerous that in the future Apocalypse made like those three never even existed.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Because he alrady has in AOA. Magneto can overpower Apocalypse by drawing power and energy from Earth's magnetic field. LOL. I already told you that.

You just don't get it, do you?

Let us bring then alternate reality in Ultimate universe, where Apocalypse would crush any Magneto. See?

LOL.

"Magneto is no match against someone with complete control over his molecules to the subatomic level."

Read my posts.

"You said Apocalypse wouldn't be able to tear him apart, while Logan claws went easily through Magneto"

And? Magneto did not die.

"No he can't."

Do you know what it means to control the entire electromagnetic force? Do you know what it means to draw energy and power from Earth's magnetic field?

Wow. Maybe my posts were looked at.

Magneto vs Apopcalypse written to their fullest would be a great fight. Both are very powerful, versatile and master strategists(not to mention underrated).

Both HoM and AoA Magneto were pretty weak versions. HoM Apocalypse was a joke. Apoc stuttering? Come on!

I`d say it is about an even split, maybe a slight edge to Mags because of his fine control.

Apocalypse is powerful, but not as powerful as people make him to be. I mean Cable defeats him some times. Cyclops killed him. The Shadow king can defeat him. In AOA, it was Holocaust who easily absorbed Sunfire's nuclear level plasma blasts, while Apocalypse was slightly weakened and had to return home to rejuvenate.

Magneto.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
In AOA, it was Holocaust who easily absorbed Sunfire's nuclear level plasma blasts, while Apocalypse was slightly weakened and had to return home to rejuvenate.

In Ultimate universe Apocalypse was a beast of the first order.

Apocalypse stomps him.

At Xplosive:

Sorry, but you will have to please read my previous posts and refute them. magneto is above APocalypse.
What makes Ultimate universe Apocalypse special?

Originally posted by pinksushi1
At Xplosive:

Sorry, but you will have to please read my previous posts and refute them. magneto is above APocalypse.
What makes Ultimate universe Apocalypse special?

I read your posts. One of the worst posts ever. You are so much talking about Magneto controlling electromagnetic fields, what do you think telekinesis or telepaths or any other are using (they are all using the same, just in a different way, thus different powers), except that Magneto is more limited than powerful telekinetic.

You are saying Magneto would overpower Apocalypse molecular control (which he wouldn't come close) and then saying AoA is evidence. WTF!?
Then I can say that Magneto would be a joke to Ultimate Apocalypse and wouldn't come close to overpowering him. That is evidence that Magneto can't overpower Apocalypse.
I don't know what you don't get. It's not 616. Forget about AoA.

Apocalypse stomps Magneto 10/10.

Wait, are you saying that science can't be trusted? Having complete control over the electromagnetic force speaks for itself.

Magneto is more limited than any telekinetic? Really? Explain, please.

You still haven't told me what is so special about Ultimate Apocalypse.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Having complete control over the electromagnetic force speaks for itself.

One of the reason why I said joke posts.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
You still haven't told me what is so special about Ultimate Apocalypse.

He pretty much beat whole Earth by brute force, only to be stopped by full power of The Phoenix Force.

LOL. Why is that a joke post? I am befuddled.

Magneto also defeated Phoenix. So what. LOL.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Magneto only beats Apacolypse via PIS. Magneto had to use magnetic energies to "grip" Poccy and tear him apart. Poccy has the ability to absorb and rechannel energies used against him via Bishop. On top of this, he is VERY dense which would mean it should be VERY hard to tear him apart. The first ability alone would nullify Magneto being able to pull this stunt. The second part of his power (which is why he is class 100) makes it even more ridiculous.

Powerful characters well beyond Magneto's power class are constantly being written down in Magneto arcs (Storm, Phoenix, Apacolypse, Thor to name a few) as they display MUCH higher power levels in arcs not involving him than what they are given in his arcs and posters here wonder why I don't respect Magneto...

Apocalypse can try to absorb Magneto's electromagnetic energies, but Magneto can overpower his energy absorption ability. Cyclops killed Apocalypse once. If Cyclops can overpower Apocalypse's energy absorption ability, then so can Magneto, since he draws power and energy from Earth's magnetic field, which gives him limitless strength, power and energy. Obviously, this would put a strain on Magneto, but it would get the job done.

If Magneto has the power to stop the planet from rotating, release a worldwide electromagnetic pulse, open wormholes, create black holes, yank satellites from outer orbit or stop someone from using their powers, then Magneto should have the power to rip Apocalypse to pieces.

Furthermore, Apocalypse has the TO virus, has a metallic armor suit and most of his powers are technology based. This makes him especially vulnerable to Magneto. Magneto defeated Cable because he could manipulate the TO virus that he had. Obviously, Magneto can manipulate the metal on Apocalypse's suit.

The only chance in which Apocalypse can defeat Magneto is if he uses Celestial Technology. However, I agree that Magneto seems to have defeated Apocalypse in only Magneto centered story arcs.

By the way, Magneto is a borderline Omega-level mutant. A borderline Omega-level mutant. Apocalypse is only an Alpha-level mutant. They are both still very powerful though. If Magneto is at full power, then Apocalypse loses. If Magneto is not at full power, then Apocalypse wins.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Exactly he can control Mag's body. Apocalypse is a mid-high herald level character.

He has gone toe-to-toe with the High Evo, and Loki. He has defeated the inhumans + BlackBolt. He has defeated Ikaris.

Really there isn't much Mags can do to a non-jobbing Nur. and please don't bring alternative realities into this.


Apoc. can't control Magneto's body. On the other hand, Magneto can control Apocalypse's body.

Science and physics don't really apply in comics. Have we ever created a device that can nullify something?

Originally posted by galactusischere
Science and physics don't really apply in comics. Have we ever created a device that can nullify something?


Why not? Only reality warping and magic can defy science and physics.

What about nullifying something? Point?

Ultimate Nullifier. Celestial Nullifier. etc.

Electromagnetism is the force that binds all matter together. Magneto has complete control over that force and can therefore "unbind" Apoc. It would strain Magneto, but he will do it.

he'd probably strain himself to a coma doing it to apocalypse, i mean where do we draw the line here? people wouldn't be so gung ho if it was superman he tried to dissipate, and he doesn't have total molecular control of his own atomic structure to the atom.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Wait, are you saying that science can't be trusted? Having complete control over the electromagnetic force speaks for itself.

Magneto is more limited than any telekinetic? Really? Explain, please.

You still haven't told me what is so special about Ultimate Apocalypse.
Magneto doesn't have control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum as you said on the last page, that's a ridiculous assertion. When has he ever controlled light or X-rays?
And no he couldn't tear Apocalypse apart like you imply.

Magneto chokes him out with his own arm tubes. As for Magneto straining, hes effortlessly lifted astroid M, his shields have blocked multiple nukes, and hes taken hits from Thor and mocked him. Its kind of a stretch to assume Apocaylpse has no metal within his body considering all the tech implants.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Magneto doesn't have control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum as you said on the last page, that's a ridiculous assertion.


Actually you are the ridicolous one. It is fairly basic knowledge of Mags` powers.
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/3257/magelectromagnetic3gu.jpg

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Magneto doesn't have control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum as you said on the last page, that's a ridiculous assertion.

And there it goes your credibility

Mags is so underrated.. ppl think of him as a someone who only can throw metal and shield himself. Others think of Apoc as a simple shapeshifter who also happens to be able to fire energy blasts. People should really check out their respect threads before making fools of themselves.

Magneto.

And yeah, not a lot of people know of Mag's full power set.

I believe that 1 day we will have them fighting over in 616 - and it'd be epic.

P.S. Even in AoA Poccy had Mags on ropes and didn't kill him just because he thought it was funnyer that way. He KOed him in their first encounter with ease, for example. He only lost due to being villain in the end...

Originally posted by redhotrash
Magneto chokes him out with his own arm tubes. As for Magneto straining, hes effortlessly lifted astroid M, his shields have blocked multiple nukes, and hes taken hits from Thor and mocked him. Its kind of a stretch to assume Apocaylpse has no metal within his body considering all the tech implants.




Thank you.

Again, Apoc. has TO virus, metallic armor suit, nano-technology based suit giving him some powers. Magneto can manipulate all of that.

Originally posted by Survivor19
I believe that 1 day we will have them fighting over in 616 - and it'd be epic.

P.S. Even in AoA Poccy had Mags on ropes and didn't kill him just because he thought it was funnyer that way. He KOed him in their first encounter with ease, for example. He only lost due to being villain in the end...


They fought in HOM and Magneto easily fried his brains. He said, "Your brain is an electromagnetic field." Or something like that.

Magneto stood down initially, in AOA, because they had his son. Did you not read that?

They were torturing Magneto at the end of AOA. Remember? How would you perform after being tortured?

I don't even know what Apocalypse's natural mutant powers are. Was he naturally and originally just a mutant Hulk?

Originally posted by pinksushi1
I don't even know what Apocalypse's natural mutant powers are. Was he naturally and originally just a mutant Hulk?

Yes.

I think Apoc also was shown able to fire energy blasts before he got the celestial tech. Not in the origin story, but later.

You would think Apoc would prepare the particles in his body when fighting Mags. When he got torn in two in AOA his insides lokked like machinery.
Yet Drac was able to drink some of him?
By eliminating all metal in him and replacing it with an equally dense material he has a good chance at taking Erik down.

True tho Mags can also manipulate non-metallic matter even if it is more taxing for him.
His real name name is Max Eisenhardt, not Erik by the way.

Originally posted by Mshinu
True tho Mags can also manipulate non-metallic matter even if it is more taxing for him.
His real name name is Max Eisenhardt, not Erik by the way.

I thought it Erik Magnus Lehnsherr?

Another Logan/James Howlett thing?

Originally posted by the ninjak
I thought it Erik Magnus Lehnsherr?

Another Logan/James Howlett thing?

Erik Magnus Lensherr was just a cover indentity, tho it worked very well.

Originally posted by the ninjak
You would think Apoc would prepare the particles in his body when fighting Mags. When he got torn in two in AOA his insides lokked like machinery.
Yet Drac was able to drink some of him?
By eliminating all metal in him and replacing it with an equally dense material he has a good chance at taking Erik down.


Magneto also has diamagnetic powers. Read about diamagnetism. Magneto is technically a telekinetic, in an electro-magnetic sense. The only chance that Apocalypse can defeat Magneto is if Apoc. has lots of prep and uses Celestial Technology. Magneto can counteract every single ability that APoc has. except for Celestial Tech.

Why would Celestials not use any metal in their tech, alien or otherwise? When you can throw planets as a weapon, making a failsafe against someone with magnetic powers seems pointless.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Why would Celestials not use any metal in their tech, alien or otherwise? When you can throw planets as a weapon, making a failsafe against someone with magnetic powers seems pointless.


The point is that Celestial Technology managed to overcome Juggernaut's magical powers. That means that Magneto is toast in such a case.

Actually, Magneto can't counter transmutation powers and Apocalypse's low level reality warping powers. Therefore, Magneto has to act fast and crush him, otherwise Apoc. wins.

It is possible that Magneto can't manipulate or affect Celestial Technology.

In UXM#275 a weakened Magneto created his costume and helmet from nothing. I thought that was an impressive transmutation feat.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Actually, Magneto can't counter transmutation powers and Apocalypse's low level reality warping powers. Therefore, Magneto has to act fast and crush him, otherwise Apoc. wins. reality warping?

He's talking about the Ages of Apoc and The Twelve stories.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Actually, Magneto can't counter transmutation powers and Apocalypse's low level reality warping powers.

Tell that to Proteus

Magneto.

Magneto wins. The sad reality is that apocalypse is just a superpowerfull rhino and nobody respects him, specially writers.

Poor poccy... he had such good potentail

Yeah but Animated Apoc was pretty damn powerful, or at least he was allowed to seem powerful when matched against the weaker animated X-Men.

Because they knew how to create atmosphere arround him on that series. He rarely showed up and when he did, he just tanked anything thrown at him. His plans were always larger than life and stopping him always required some superdramatic character focused moment and a plot device to boost.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Tell that to Proteus

Proteus does not have transmutation powers.

Also, I don't think that Magneto would be able to manipulate or affect Celestial Technology. Theoretically, Apocalypse could transform himself into a material that can't be affected by Magneto's powers, something similar to Iron Man or Dr. Doom nullifying his powers. Celestial Technology is almost magical in nature and Magneto can't affect magic.

Anyway, Apocalypse can just transmute Magneto.

Triple posts are not cool

Originally posted by Survivor19
Triple posts are not cool ...

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Also, I don't think that Magneto would be able to manipulate or affect Celestial Technology. Theoretically, Apocalypse could transform himself into a material that can't be affected by Magneto's powers, something similar to Iron Man or Dr. Doom nullifying his powers. Celestial Technology is almost magical in nature and Magneto can't affect magic.

I agree.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Also, I don't think that Magneto would be able to manipulate or affect Celestial Technology. Theoretically, Apocalypse could transform himself into a material that can't be affected by Magneto's powers, something similar to Iron Man or Dr. Doom nullifying his powers. Celestial Technology is almost magical in nature and Magneto can't affect magic. good point but magneto doesnt need to control the person 100% right off the back. all he needs is a paperclip and manipulate it into the person and from there he has control

Magneto has ben consistently portrayed at much higher levels than apocalypse throughout his entire career, with better high-end feats as well. I think Apoc fans are misled by his power-set, and by his appearances on television (as others have pointed out). Really, though, his powerset has no relation whatsoever to his feats, and the version of him in TAS was completely ill-conceived --- how does it make sense that he can vaporize the x-men with a single blast, his vulnerability rivals Juggernaut's, a charging Rogue just bounces off his chest in giant form, etc. etc. He was WAY, WAY too powerful -- it didn't even make sense. He had an awesome voice, though.

I will grant the apoc-fans this: if we believe that "non-jobbing" Apoc is the following (all of which have been attributed to him at various points in his checkered career), then he can probably beat mags:
1. Stronger than the Hulk/Unlimited Physical Strength
2. Complete Molecular Control over his own Body
3. Awesome durability and regeneration(even able to separate and rejoin parts of his body)
4. Ability to absorb powerful energy attacks

In other words, Apoc has isolated feats which, if we were unbelievably selective, might suggest that he can consistently defeat Mags in a fight. But if we are going to be that selective with Apoc, couldn't we also be selective with Magneto, and say something outrageous like "He just makes a black hole in his brain," or something? Apoc is only Mag's superior in power-description, not in fact.

Originally posted by chomperx9
good point but magneto doesnt need to control the person 100% right off the back. all he needs is a paperclip and manipulate it into the person and from there he has control

How would that help though?

Originally posted by Simbon
Magneto has ben consistently portrayed at much higher levels than apocalypse throughout his entire career, with better high-end feats as well. I think Apoc fans are misled by his power-set, and by his appearances on television (as others have pointed out). Really, though, his powerset has no relation whatsoever to his feats, and the version of him in TAS was completely ill-conceived --- how does it make sense that he can vaporize the x-men with a single blast, his vulnerability rivals Juggernaut's, a charging Rogue just bounces off his chest in giant form, etc. etc. He was WAY, WAY too powerful -- it didn't even make sense. He had an awesome voice, though.

I will grant the apoc-fans this: if we believe that "non-jobbing" Apoc is the following (all of which have been attributed to him at various points in his checkered career), then he can probably beat mags:
1. Stronger than the Hulk/Unlimited Physical Strength
2. Complete Molecular Control over his own Body
3. Awesome durability and regeneration(even able to separate and rejoin parts of his body)
4. Ability to absorb powerful energy attacks

In other words, Apoc has isolated feats which, if we were unbelievably selective, might suggest that he can consistently defeat Mags in a fight. But if we are going to be that selective with Apoc, couldn't we also be selective with Magneto, and say something outrageous like "He just makes a black hole in his brain," or something? Apoc is only Mag's superior in power-description, not in fact.

Apocalypse has more powers than that. As a matter of fact, both Magneto and Apocalypse have powers that are still unknown. Apocalypse because of the Celestial Technology and Magneto's control over the EM spectrum. How long would it take Magneto to open a black hole? Where has Magneto ever opened a black hole?

He only opened a worm hole in:

Generating traversable wormholes (Excalibur Vol. 3 #7/8, Avengers Disassembled)

Even if Magneto did open a black hole; Apocalypse is a telekinetic, meaning that he can fly and therefore can fly away from it. Or use his Celestial Technology to eliminate the black hole.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Apocalypse has more powers than that. As a matter of fact, both Magneto and Apocalypse have powers that are still unknown. Apocalypse because of the Celestial Technology and Magneto's control over the EM spectrum. How long would it take Magneto to open a black hole? Where has Magneto ever opened a black hole?

He only opened a worm hole in:

Generating traversable wormholes (Excalibur Vol. 3 #7/8, Avengers Disassembled)

Even if Magneto did open a black hole; Apocalypse is a telekinetic, meaning that he can fly and therefore can fly away from it. Or use his Celestial Technology to eliminate the black hole.

I know Apoc has more powers than that -- it's just that he's not consistently depicted as having all of these powers to a high degree; for instance, the time he detached his own head suggests that piercing damage and being ripped in half should not be viable options against him, yet this is clearly not the case. As for the wormhole, I was suggesting that Magneto make it INSIDE of Apoc. I suggested it because I thought it was a frivolous tactic to be used in a forum debate. And apart from the Celestial tech we've seen incorporated in Apoc's body, there's no reason to bring up celestial tech here. As for Nur's TK, there is absolutely no consistency here. His top feats in this area (utterly destroying Exodus w/ TK, for instance), would seem to make him more powerful than Magneto, but again this appears to be anomalous. This is what makes Apocalypse so frustrating in these fights. Unless you are putting him in a brawl, where his feats are more consistent, it is just really hard to rate the guy's power-level, which is why most of us tend to low-ball him. That and the fact that some of his fans read his feats with more than a little creativity.

Apocalypse controls his own mass but he doesn't really transmute others. Also, power is relative, the fact that he controls himsef does not make him indestructible.

Turning himself into non-magnetic materials wouldn't work and the idea of materials immune to electromagnetic manipulatin makes littles sense too. If it's made from atoms, it can be affected by electromagnetism. Doom and Stark's plot device armors that can avoid magneto's powers usually have esoteric and poorly defined 'fields' arround them to stop outside electromagnetic interference, so that it's not an instawin for magneto. Poccy could try that and it might work. But even then, I've seen some old scans of magneto getting arround all of IM's specifically designed defenses against his power.

Poccy's damage soak and energy absortion, although impressive, are not above what mags can dish out. He's been hurt and put down by a lot less actually.

Magneto.

Apoc stomps.

Mags..

Originally posted by Simbon
I know Apoc has more powers than that -- it's just that he's not consistently depicted as having all of these powers to a high degree; for instance, the time he detached his own head suggests that piercing damage and being ripped in half should not be viable options against him, yet this is clearly not the case. As for the wormhole, I was suggesting that Magneto make it INSIDE of Apoc. I suggested it because I thought it was a frivolous tactic to be used in a forum debate. And apart from the Celestial tech we've seen incorporated in Apoc's body, there's no reason to bring up celestial tech here. As for Nur's TK, there is absolutely no consistency here. His top feats in this area (utterly destroying Exodus w/ TK, for instance), would seem to make him more powerful than Magneto, but again this appears to be anomalous. This is what makes Apocalypse so frustrating in these fights. Unless you are putting him in a brawl, where his feats are more consistent, it is just really hard to rate the guy's power-level, which is why most of us tend to low-ball him. That and the fact that some of his fans read his feats with more than a little creativity.

Probably because Apocalypse forgets that he has all of those powers. Also, AOA is not 616; therefore, not canon. Apocalypse and Magneto already fought in 616 and Magneto needed the X-Men's help. Apocalypse should have been able to absorb Magneto's electromagnetic energy, when Magneto was trying to rip him in half. It is possible that the Celestial Technology could negate the wormhole. Apocalypse's TK is strong enough to rip someone's spine out of his body. I mean, we have seen him laughing off Stryfe's most powerful attacks, in Messiah War. Even when Apocalypse was at his weakest, Bishop and Stryfe had to give it their best to defeat him. Even then he was not killed.

To 753: Apocalypse does have transmutation powers. Also, Apocalypse's body and armor are Celestial Technology based, making them almost magical in nature. That is why Magneto overcame Iron Man's attempt to nullify Magneto's powers and Dr. Doom was successful because Dr. Doom has magical powers. I don't think that that is PIS.

Also, that is not true. Even a fully powered telekinetic blast from Phoenix only managed to rip off some of Apocalypse's armor.

Originally posted by pinksushi1


To 753: Apocalypse does have transmutation powers. Also, Apocalypse's body and armor are Celestial Technology based, making them almost magical in nature. That is why Magneto overcame Iron Man's attempt to nullify Magneto's powers and Dr. Doom was successful because Dr. Doom has magical powers. I don't think that that is PIS.

Also, that is not true. Even a fully powered telekinetic blast from Phoenix only managed to rip off some of Apocalypse's armor.

He's also been hurt by a lot less than that. I have never seen poccy really transmuting matter and whenever he alters other people it's by shoving them into the weird machines that make horsemen. I also see no reason for him to be able to absorb Magneto's energy. I'll give you the magic thing though, it certainly could neutralize him.

Poccy has also been hurt by a lot less power than that.

Apocalypse

Poccy is victim to bad writing and down playing just so characters could beat them!
Mags is awesome but no PIS Poccy can put Mags down.

Magneto

Originally posted by 753
He's also been hurt by a lot less than that. I have never seen poccy really transmuting matter and whenever he alters other people it's by shoving them into the weird machines that make horsemen. I also see no reason for him to be able to absorb Magneto's energy. I'll give you the magic thing though, it certainly could neutralize him.

Poccy has also been hurt by a lot less power than that.

I agree, but we as comic book readers should not succumb to poor writing. Also, what instances exemplify Apocalypse losing to less powerful characters?

I will get the source or scan showing Apocalypse's transmutation powers.

Generally speaking, I would contend that Apocalypse is a "victim to bad writing" because he is an "evil character." Good always triumphs over evil. As a matter of fact, I don't know of any stories in which evil triumps over good.

Apocalypse stomps.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse stomps.

I would like to see them fight again, in 616. Hopefully the comic book writers will fulfill this wish of mine.

If they ever do fight, then Apoc will lose due to obvious reasons.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
If they ever do fight, then Apoc will lose due to obvious reasons.

They did fight once in 616, but only once and Apocalypse won.

Really? Was Apoc amped up when they fought?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Really? Was Apoc amped up when they fought?

Not to my knowledge. The battle occurred in Adventures of the X-Men #6.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Not to my knowledge. The battle occurred in Adventures of the X-Men #6.

It ain't canon to 616.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It ain't canon to 616.

Adventures of the X-Men #6 is 616. HOM and AOA are not 616.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Adventures of the X-Men #6 is 616. HOM and AOA are not 616.

Are you sure? Wasn't it based on the cartoon...


Also, marvel wikia says it takes place in Earth-92131.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Comics:The_Adventures_of_the_X-Men_Vol_1_6

Originally posted by pinksushi1
They fought in HOM and Magneto easily fried his brains. He said, "Your brain is an electromagnetic field." Or something like that.

Magneto stood down initially, in AOA, because they had his son. Did you not read that?

They were torturing Magneto at the end of AOA. Remember? How would you perform after being tortured?

I loved seeing Magneto own Apocalypse in HOM. Apocalypse boasted about how he the advantage due to the fact that no metal was around them, but Magneto proved otherwise.

Originally posted by Magneto1982
I loved seeing Magneto own Apocalypse in HOM. Apocalypse boasted about how he the advantage due to the fact that no metal was around them, but Magneto proved otherwise.

Let's see Magneto "own" Apocalypse in a story arc that does not have Magneto as a main or central character.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Let's see Magneto "own" Apocalypse in a story arc that does not have Magneto as a main or central character.

So you don't think classic Magneto is capable of defeating Apocalypse?

Classic Apoc would murder classic Mags

Originally posted by galactusischere
Classic Apoc would murder classic Mags Based on?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on?
He has complete molecular control of his body. Mags can't defeat him.

Originally posted by galactusischere
He has complete molecular control of his body. Mags can't defeat him.

That does not mean that Magneto can't overpower Apocalypse's own molecular control over Apocalypse's body. After all, the electromagnetic force, being one of the four fundamental forces in the Universe. is the force that binds all matter together. But that is not the point. The point is that Apocalypse could transmute Magneto. Furthermore, Apocalypse's Celestial Technology enhanced body might have properties that Magneto can't maniuplate or control or affect because it MIGHT be magical, or something that can't be affected by diamagnetism or electromagnetism, in nature. The problem is, Magneto has the faster reaction time. So, if blood lusted, Magneto would probably defeat Apocalypse. I don't know how fast Apocalypse's reaction time is. They never fought in 616. One of these days, they better fight.

I've been thinking over the years that Apoc would kick the shit out of Mags.

Recent events have solidified that to me.

Apoc mudstomps Mags.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
They never fought in 616.

Goes to prove Marvel wants to keep Magneto alive.

magneto rips 616 apocalypse to shreds

Originally posted by 753
magneto rips 616 apocalypse to shreds

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I've been thinking over the years that Apoc would kick the shit out of Mags.

Recent events have solidified that to me.

Apoc mudstomps Mags.

Apocalypse as in En Sabah Nur? The version that stumped Stryfe, is arguably stronger than Magento but still weaker than Cable.

Originally posted by "Id"
Apocalypse as in En Sabah Nur? The version that stumped Stryfe, is arguably stronger than Magento but still weaker than Cable. Apocalypse has astopalypsed Cable on a couple occasions...

Stryfe was beating his butt too.

Magneto is a phageet.

Apocalypse is the one. Apocalypse is the way.

Apocalypse is the ultimate failure.

Jean did, what Apocalypse couldn't for thousands of years. He is too dimwit to harness the power of the Death Seed.

Be a colossal *****.