Michael Demiurgos vs Living Tribunal

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Erik-Lensherr
shifty

Soljer
Michael.

Nikkolas
LT: Why is everything you say written in cursive?

Michael: This isn't.

LT: Because it's being written outside the comic. I have to say, the blue text and loopy writing is very annoying.

Michael: Behold the power of God!

LT: Well...where is it?

Michael: Well, you gotta kill me first.

LT: ...come again?

Michael: See, Pops gave me His Power. But I gotta get killed before it all explodes out like a *****. That guy has a real sense of humor. Should see what he does to poor Spec. Wrath my ass. He's the Cosmic Court Jester.

LT: ....right. I'm leaving now.

Endless Mike
Done before

Galan007
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike1-1.jpg http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg

Goddess Kali
LT has done more than Micheal has.


Micheal was powerless against the Two Titans who threatened to destroy the Silver City.


However, if anyone's got a chance of defeating LT, it's definately Micheal.

Galan007
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Micheal was powerless against the Two Titans who threatened to destroy the Silver City. God had already stepped away from Heaven at that time, so Michael was greatly depowered.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
However, if anyone's got a chance of defeating LT, it's definately Micheal.I agree.

Soljer
Originally posted by Galan007
God had already stepped away from Heaven at that time, so Michael was greatly depowered.

I agree.

You agree that Michael has a chance?

It'd seems as if Michael should easily beat the Living Tribunal.

About as easily as he bested the Spectre.

Galan007
Originally posted by Soljer
It'd seems as if Michael should easily beat the Living Tribunal.

About as easily as he bested the Spectre. This is what I believe would happen, .

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Soljer
You agree that Michael has a chance?

It'd seems as if Michael should easily beat the Living Tribunal.

About as easily as he bested the Spectre.


How would Micheal easily defeat Spectre ? erm





Yahweh created only one multiverse.


Living Tribunal's power is far beyond multiversal.


How do you figure ?

Galan007
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
How would Micheal easily defeat Spectre ? erm





Yahweh created only one multiverse.


Living Tribunal's power is far beyond multiversal.


How do you figure ? Thanos /w/ THOTI absorbed/recreated a Multiverse at the most, but he still managed to pwn LT. smile

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Galan007
Thanos /w/ THOTI absorbed/recreated a Multiverse at the most, but he still managed to pwn LT. smile


Mr. Master provided evidense to the contrary, that HOTU's power was omniversal, not just multiversal.



ALSO what you are suggesting is that LT is below Multi-Eternity erm


Let us not forget, LT is above Multi Eternity, Multi Eternity was destroyed by the Ultamate Nullifier.

Galan007
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Mr. Master provided evidense to the contrary, that HOTU's power was omniversal, not just multiversal.



ALSO what you are suggesting is that LT is below Multi-Eternity erm


Let us not forget, LT is above Multi Eternity, Multi Eternity was destroyed by the Ultamate Nullifier. There is NO evidence supporting Thanos absorbing the Omniverse. Especially when the word Universe is used to reference what Thanos absorbed, numerous times.

.

Anyhow, I really don't feel like looking at a bombardment of scans.... So I'm out. smile

Mr Master
Never once on panel is there any allusion to Thanos absorbing "A" Universe.

Or 1 Universe,

or a Single Universe.

We do see the term "THE Universe" ...

that's because they were dealing with "THE Marvel Universe" (ALL of Marvel)


The END: Marvel



(Cover of #1)
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7775/marveluniversetheend1kh5.th.jpg


(Cover of #6)
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8103/marveluniversetheend6gl3.th.jpg



The END of Marvel itself: (Marvel is an Omniverse) smile



This isn't surprising,

for even the Totality of Death was threatened:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2439/t2tj9gw6.th.jpg

"Even She would fall victim to the approaching Termination ...

For in the Absence of Life there can be no Death"

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
There is NO evidence supporting Thanos absorbing the Omniverse. Especially when the word Universe is used to reference what Thanos absorbed, numerous times.

.

Anyhow, I really don't feel like looking at a bombardment of scans.... So I'm out. smile

You sound like nvr sick

Mr Master
Thanos became the embodiment of the Omniverse


http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg
"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"


I used to think Thanos absorbed only the Prime Multiverse,
because of the overwhelming evidence that pointed towards MORE than one Universe,
on top of Marvunnap stating it in their HOTI Bio.

But I have now learned that Thanos did indeed Absorb ALL the Time & Space in the Marvel Universe,

but Thanos did not absorb anything Outside of Time & Space.

Galan007
Originally posted by Air Legend
You sound like nvr sick Not really.

I at least use logic when I post. smile

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
We do see the term "THE Universe" ...

that's because they were dealing with "THE Marvel Universe" (ALL of Marvel) So any time a character has said "I'm going to destroy THE Universe", they were really talking about ALL of Marvel, ?


Hmm, I'll have to remember that. smile

guy222
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
shifty

LT

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos became the embodiment of the Omniverse


http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg
"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"


I used to think Thanos absorbed only the Prime Multiverse,
because of the overwhelming evidence that pointed towards MORE than one Universe,
on top of Marvunnap stating it in their HOTI Bio.

But I have now learned that Thanos did indeed Absorb ALL the Time & Space in the Marvel Universe,

but Thanos did not absorb anything Outside of Time & Space.

If Warlock was outside of time and space, then how could he exist?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
So any time a character has said "I'm going to destroy THE Universe", they were really talking about ALL of Marvel, ?

Yea, cause I said that right? no

I was clearly speaking about:

(Cover of #1)
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7775/marveluniversetheend1kh5.th.jpg

The END: Marvel

Originally posted by Galan007
Hmm, I'll have to remember that.

First remember what I'm posting. stick out tongue

Mr Master
Originally posted by Endless Mike
If Warlock was outside of time and space, then how could he exist?

Same way he existed here:

(BEYOND Space & Time ... OUTSIDE the influence of Eternity/Infinity)

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos became the embodiment of the Omniverse


http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg
"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality" This scan could easily be argued.


The word "omni" simply means "all".

And Thanos specifically said Omni-Reality, ,

NOT Omni-Realities, .


IMO,

That scan isn't quite as concrete as you may think. smile

Mr Master
1.


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Eternity

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7417/58790925tc2.th.jpg

"Thanos claimed the Power of THOTI,

Eternity opposed Thanos once more,

Thanos destroyed ALL of Reality"






2.


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Living Tribunal

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/373/ltbioan2.th.jpg

"Thanos destroyed ALL that Existed with his power ... and then Restored Reality"








3. (in plain english)


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Akhenaten

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...


Thanos did "Repair the Fabric of Reality"





Notice that none of the Bios mention (1 - or - O-N-E - or - A) Universe.


What it does clearly state is:



"Thanos destroyed ALL of Reality"


"Thanos destroyed ALL that Existed"


"Repair the Fabric of Reality"


"Pronounced him GOD"

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Mr Master
Same way he existed here:

(BEYOND Space & Time ... OUTSIDE the influence of Eternity/Infinity)

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg

Except if he was "Beyond space and time", he would have no body, since there was no space, and no mind, since there was no time to think.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, cause I said that right? no

I was clearly speaking about:

(Cover of #1)
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7775/marveluniversetheend1kh5.th.jpg

The END: Marvel Ahhh,

So a character saying "I destroyed THE Universe", only means said character destroyed the Omniverse, in THAT particular instance?

Interesting.

Mr Master
According to Marvel.com

Both Thanos/THOTI and Genis/Entropy destroyed the entire Marvel Universe:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe


On this same page, it is clear that the 616 Universe & the Omniverse are connected.

It is also clear that they are speaking about ALL of Marvel (Omniverse/whatever) when,

Sis-Neg re-created it in 1972

Genis/Entropy did it in 2002

Thanos/THOTI did it in 2003

Alien Entity/Reed did it in 2006

Mr Master
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except if he was "Beyond space and time", he would have no body, since there was no space, and no mind, since there was no time to think.

Write Marvel a letter and complain.

You asked how would Warlock survive OUTSIDE of Space & Time,

I just SHOWED you with On Panel proof,

and now you're going to try and use logic to dispute the on panel evidence?

forgetu

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Mr Master
Write Marvela letter and complain.

You asked how would Warlock survive OUTSIDE of Space & Time,

I just SHOWED you with On Panel proof,

and now you're going to try and use logic to dispute the on panel evidence?

forgetu

Yes. Because obviously if he had a body and mind, then he was not really "outside of space and time".

Obviously the writers just didn't know what they were talking about.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
According to Marvel.com

Both Thanos/THOTI and Genis/Entropy destroyed the entire Marvel Universe:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe


On this same page, it is clear that the 616 Universe & the Omniverse are connected.

It is also clear that they are speaking about ALL of Marvel (Omniverse/whatever) when,

Sis-Neg re-created it in 1972

Genis/Entropy did it in 2002

Thanos/THOTI did it in 2003

Alien Entity/Reed did it in 2006 Except Genis/Entropy destroyed A Multiverse, nothing more.

How do I know this?

Because it says so on the inside cover of relevant issues. .


So whatever site you're getting this info from, may not be 100% accurate. smile

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Ahhh,

So a character saying "I destroyed THE Universe", only means said character destroyed the Omniverse, in THAT particular instance?

Interesting.

I have no idea what you're trying to say friend.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes. Because obviously if he had a body and mind,

then he was not really "outside of space and time".

Obviously the writers just didn't know what they were talking about.

And of course ... you do?



Well, I think I'll take Marvel's word on the matter:

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg
"A Portal to beyond the realms of Time & Space"



http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg

"was indeed Outside the influence of Eternity & Infinity"

"Untouched by ether Time or Space"




So again,

this is why Warlock along with anything OUTSIDE of Space & Time survived
Thanos' absorption of ALL the Time & Sapce in Marvel:

Endless Mike
Warlock was just being an idiot. He didn't know what he was talking about.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Except Genis/Entropy destroyed A Multiverse, nothing more.

How do I know this?

Because it says so on the inside cover of relevant issues. .

No where on panel or in a bio is it stated how many Multiverses were erased,
so adding the letter "A" to Multiverse is inaccurate to was was stated.

The Multiverse which = the the totality of Eternity was erased,
this affected all of Marvel in the same way.

Again,

it's not about the terms Multiverse or Universe,
it's about the significance of the Prime Multiverse and/or 616 Reality,
eveything in Marvel is supported by it,
so when you erase the Prime Multiverse or the 616 Reality,
you erase all of Marvel.

This is what Marvel has established as fact.

The 616 Reality represents all of Marvel,
but it was designated a specific # to differentiate it
from all it's Alternates and Diverged copies. (Which are meaningless in comparison)

Originally posted by Galan007
So whatever site you're getting this info from, may not be 100% accurate.

Marvel.com (official site of the Marvel company)

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe

Mr Master
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Warlock was just being an idiot. He didn't know what he was talking about.

Actually that's Jim Starlin talking, the Writer giving Warlock his thoughts.

Not to mention it was Eternity/Infinity
that guided Warlock to the Portal that lead to "Beyond Space & Time"


And I'm not continuing this with you dude,

you're willfully ignoring on panel artwork and character statements.

That's intransigence and I'm not dealing with that ever again. (I had enough with Nvr)

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
No where on panel or in a bio is it stated how many Multiverses were erased,
so adding the letter "A" to Multiverse is inaccurate to was was stated. Huh?

Genis/Entropy were only shown destroying one Eternity, .

Am I to assume they destroyed anything else, even though such was never shown? confused

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Genis/Entropy were only shown destroying one Eternity, .

There's only one Eternity in Marvel. (the Multiverse) his Totality.

Other Eternitys are just Aspects (single Universes) of the Totality.


Fold 616 and/or the Prime Multiverse = affect the entire Omniverse.

Originally posted by Galan007
Am I to assume they destroyed anything else, even though such was never shown?

Reed & the Alien Entity folded the Omniverse back to the point before the Big Bang,

did you see other Universes or Multiverses?

No we did not.

All the Alien & Reed needed to do was fold Time & Space from within the 616 Reality,
and ALL of Marvel returned to the Void before the Big Bang.

As we know, they collectively Re-created ALL of Marvel again.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
This scan could easily be argued.

laughing

Originally posted by Galan007
The word "omni" simply means "all".

And Thanos specifically said Omni-Reality, ,

NOT Omni-Realities, .

The Omniverse is one big Reality ... categorized into segments. (Multiverses)

The Marvel Universe = the Omniverse.

Originally posted by Galan007
IMO,

That scan isn't quite as concrete as you may think.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
There's only one Eternity in Marvel. (the Multiverse) his Totality.

Other Eternitys are just Aspects (single Universes) of the Totality.


Fold 616 and/or the Prime Multiverse = affect the entire Omniverse. I don't remember Genis/Entropy affecting the Omniverse.

All I remember them affecting was A Multiverse, .


And since they were some of the characters you listed above as Omniversal destroyers.

I had to remind you that there was absolutely nothing to suggest they influenced more then A Multiverse. smile

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Omniverse is one big Reality ... categorized into segments. (Multiverses)

The Marvel Universe = the Omniverse. So you must also believe that every time a character says "I will destroy THE Universe", they secretly mean, the entire Omniverse!

You are saying THE Universe = THE Omniverse afterall, so to say you disagree with the above statement, is to disagree with yourself. smile

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't remember Genis/Entropy affecting the Omniverse.

All I remember them affecting was A Multiverse, .

It was never stated on panel that they even affected the Multiverse:
(so your memory is off old friend)


It was coincidentaly termed, "THE Universe" (just like in the END) smile


Epiphany:

"Can't you see he's blaiming himself for failing to kill you and save the Universe?"


Captain Marvel:

"think of all the times you saved the Universe"

"Truth is. the Universe was living on borrowed time"

"the truth is, the Universe did END with a whimper,

Eternity didn't want to keep going"

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3217/cm2cj1.th.jpg

shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
And since they were some of the characters you listed above as Omniversal destroyers.

I had to remind you that there was absolutely nothing to suggest they influenced more then A Multiverse.

Again,

Genis & Entropy erased the Prime Multiverse,

thus erasing all of Marvel according to Marvel the company that makes this shit up.


Erase the 616 Reality and/or the Prime Multiverse = affecting the Omniverse,

not according to me ... but according to Marvel.

Marvel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any and all other opinions.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
So you must also believe that every time a character says "I will destroy THE Universe", they secretly mean, the entire Omniverse!

If it's the 616 Reality which has Omniversal significance?

Yes.

Any other Universe?

No.


And they don't secretly mean anything, it just is what it is.

Erase the 616 ... affect the Omniverse.

Originally posted by Galan007
You are saying THE Universe = THE Omniverse afterall, so to say you disagree with the above statement, is to disagree with yourself.

You must not be paying attention.

Cause I posted like 3 times that ONLY when it involves the 616 Reality is that the case.

Now you got a problem with it, email Marvel.

Cause again,


Marvel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any and all opinions and/or theories concerning Marvel.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
According to Marvel.com

Both Thanos/THOTI and Genis/Entropy destroyed the entire Marvel Universe:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe


On this same page, it is clear that the 616 Universe & the Omniverse are connected.

It is also clear that they are speaking about ALL of Marvel (Omniverse/whatever) when,

Sis-Neg re-created it in 1972

Genis/Entropy did it in 2002

Thanos/THOTI did it in 2003

Alien Entity/Reed did it in 2006

shrug


Who ever is displeased with this Fact,

discuss it with Marvel ... I'm done.

I just convey what Marvel states on panel, corresponding bios or at its official sites.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
It was never stated on panel that they even affected the Multiverse:
(so your memory is off old friend) Is it?

:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1967/cm1ls8.th.jpg
Originally posted by Mr Master
Now you got a problem with it, email Marvel. lol

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Is it?

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1967/cm1ls8.th.jpg

That's the Inside page on the back of the Cover.
(updating the reader on the previous issue)

Not exactly "on panel"


This on the other hand is On Panel:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Epiphany:

"Can't you see he's blaiming himself for failing to kill you and save the Universe?"


Captain Marvel:

"think of all the times you saved the Universe"

"Truth is. the Universe was living on borrowed time"

"the truth is, the Universe did END with a whimper,

Eternity didn't want to keep going"

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3217/cm2cj1.th.jpg

Besides, it makes no difference,

cause I myself said, Genis/Entropty erased the Multiverse, not the Omniverse.

But when the Multiverse was erased, the rest of Marvel was erased too.

Because the foundation of Marvel (616) was erased,
so the whole system mirrored its course.

............................................................................

This is why the Alien and Reed were able to fold the Omniverse (all of Marvel)
because they did it from the 616 Reality.

Or have we forgotten about this?

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's the Inside page on the back of the Cover.
(updating the reader on the previous issue)

Not exactly "on panel"lol

Whatever you say. smile
Originally posted by Mr Master
But when the Multiverse was erased, the rest of Marvel was erased too.

Because the foundation of Marvel (616) was erased,
so the whole system mirrored its course. lsd

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
lol

Whatever you say.

lol

You mean whatever Marvel says.

Originally posted by Galan007
lsd

Here I'll show ya how it works:


The Alien Entity and Reed erase all of Marvel (Omniverse) by Folding the 616 Reality:

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8701/42638994zn0.th.jpg

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/857/41971322ws8.th.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3888/14819650xd7.th.jpg


Then the Alien produces & uses the Spark that ignites the Original Big Bang:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7271/97778926vg9.th.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6941/10de8.th.jpg



The Marvel Universe (Omniverse) being re-created on panel:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9581/15ev6.th.jpg

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/2927/16sd3.th.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7471/17ff6.th.jpg


It's all Canon and official:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe

So ... shrug or whatever you say.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
lol

You mean whatever Marvel says. No.

lol at your descriptions. smile



Anyhow,

This trivial crap has lead the thread way off course..... Moving on... smile

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
No.

lol at your descriptions.

...

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyhow,

This trivial crap has lead the thread way off course.....

Just Marvel facts vs opinions.


Like this other fact:


Thanos is narrating the events that took place,
from the beginning to the point where Warlock finds him in the void.

When Thanos said,

"Doom was ALSO having His Universe badly shaken"

Thanos was differentiating TWO separate UniverseS,

no matter what the heck he meant by what he said.


This no one can dispute.

And if there's MORE than One Universe involved in this story,
then the "One Universe" theory and or opinion/interpretation is moot null and void.



On Panel verification:

Here we have Zeus summoning the rest of the Pantheons from other Timelines,

Like Horus:

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9029/thotiwq3.th.jpg

"Tis also THIER Universe (like 4321) that be imperiled"


And Thanos says,

"meanwhile Doctor Doom was also having HIS Universe (616) badly shaken"




There's no getting around this,
yall wanted some On Panel Proof that depicted the END taking place in MORE than One Universe,

Well there it is, On Panel.




Also:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4524/th11mq7oi8.th.jpg
"I was a grain of sand in a distant Future"

In Marvel Comics,

any Future beyond the Present (616) is a separate Reality/Universe:

So again,

Thanos is clearly telling us he's everything and OTHER Universes are part of this everything.

Mr Master
Back to the topic at hand.

If Michael is truly the embodiment of the Presence's power then Michael wins.


But I have never seen a scan that clearly states that Michael has the Presence's power.

I'm looking for something similar to this clarification:


http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9954/th17wg4.th.jpg
"Eternity, you must sense that Everything the Almighty was I now am,

did you ever dare demand anything from Him"


Eternity RESPONDS,

No, but .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)




http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/500/th18br2.th.jpg
"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ... my will is Supreme,

I will not demand worship, as my predecessor expected"

Mr Master
Edit*

bah, who cares.

131

kevdude
Michael wins. He does have Gods power, read his last name and what it means.. He cannot die he's above Death, only reason he died was because of Ragnarok was happening and God left. Him and Lucifer are twins and Lucifer in Deaths realm powerless threatened her, Lucifer powerless did what it took Thanos with THOTU to do. I'll try to make a Michael Demiurgos respect thread soon seeing people unwisely underestimate him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Air Legend
You sound like nvr sick laughing

its funny how people try to favor dc in all the threads and then leave before they can be corrected. biased much?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's the Inside page on the back of the Cover.
(updating the reader on the previous issue)

Not exactly "on panel"


This on the other hand is On Panel:



Besides, it makes no difference,

cause I myself said, Genis/Entropty erased the Multiverse, not the Omniverse.

But when the Multiverse was erased, the rest of Marvel was erased too.

Because the foundation of Marvel (616) was erased,
so the whole system mirrored its course.

............................................................................

This is why the Alien and Reed were able to fold the Omniverse (all of Marvel)
because they did it from the 616 Reality.

Or have we forgotten about this? way to correct and spread the truth.

quanchi112
Originally posted by kevdude
Michael wins. He does have Gods power, read his last name and what it means.. He cannot die he's above Death, only reason he died was because of Ragnarok was happening and God left. Him and Lucifer are twins and Lucifer in Deaths realm powerless threatened her, Lucifer powerless did what it took Thanos with THOTU to do. I'll try to make a Michael Demiurgos respect thread soon seeing people unwisely underestimate him. he cannot die hes above death,only reason he dies was becuz

roll eyes (sarcastic)

way to contradict urself within the same sentence.

when did luficer defeat all the abstracts and powerhouses in dc at once. what issue i want to give it a read.

kevdude
Originally posted by quanchi112
he cannot die hes above death,only reason he dies was becuz

roll eyes (sarcastic)

way to contradict urself within the same sentence.

when did luficer defeat all the abstracts and powerhouses in dc at once. what issue i want to give it a read.


If he (powerless) can threaten Death in her realm while it took Thanos w/thotu to do the same then he should be above Thanos right?. Death will destroy everything even the abstracts!!

Check out Lucifer # 26 Q

quanchi112
Originally posted by kevdude
If he (powerless) can threaten Death in her realm while it took Thanos w/thotu to do the same then he should be above Thanos right?. Death will destroy everything even the abstracts!!

Check out Lucifer # 26 Q different deaths. so its a moot point. thanos pawned death with the ig. he was supreme with this power and would curbstomp michael.

lt wins this.

kevdude
You are almost as bad as phenom on his pro DBGT

Lord Prime
Michael ftw

quanchi112
any scans of michael just pawning beings with little to no effort.

quanchi112
Originally posted by kevdude
You are almost as bad as phenom on his pro DBGT show me some feats by way of scans to make me see the error of my ways.

KMC_Drifter
Originally posted by quanchi112
show me some feats by way of scans to make me see the error of my ways.


my feats are kinda dirty right now...walkin' around here barefooted...but, I'll send ya a scan of them if you'd like.

kevdude
Originally posted by KMC_Drifter
my feats are kinda dirty right now...walkin' around here barefooted...but, I'll send ya a scan of them if you'd like.

laughing out loud

Air Legend
Galan007 actually tried to debate with Mr Master. laughing He totally got owned.

Air Legend
Originally posted by kevdude
Michael wins. He does have Gods power, read his last name and what it means.. He cannot die he's above Death, only reason he died was because of Ragnarok was happening and God left. Him and Lucifer are twins and Lucifer in Deaths realm powerless threatened her, Lucifer powerless did what it took Thanos with THOTU to do. I'll try to make a Michael Demiurgos respect thread soon seeing people unwisely underestimate him.

haermm And DC is greater than Marvel haermm

Air Legend
Originally posted by quanchi112
different deaths. so its a moot point. thanos pawned death with the ig. he was supreme with this power and would curbstomp michael.

lt wins this.
thumb up

Air Legend
Originally posted by kevdude
You are almost as bad as phenom on his pro DBGT
And you're worse than Phenomenal.

Astner
DC´s second = Marvel´s second -- seems only fair.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Air Legend
Galan007 actually tried to debate with Mr Master. laughing He totally got owned. figures. galan is overrated in my book and only takes in what he wants to while disregarding the rest.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Air Legend
haermm And DC is greater than Marvel haermm laughing

Superherovandal
Originally posted by Air Legend
thumb up yeah but at least DC's death hasn't been pwned by a certain sorcerer named Dr Strange before.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Superherovandal
yeah but at least DC's death hasn't been pwned by a certain sorcerer named Dr Strange before. lets look at the wrath of god then shall we. he was curbstomped by an amped cap marvel.

that is ridicuolus. the wrath o god getting his ass kicked in this fashion is laughable in the very least.

Superherovandal
Originally posted by quanchi112
lets look at the wrath of god then shall we. he was curbstomped by an amped cap marvel.

that is ridicuolus. the wrath o god getting his ass kicked in this fashion is laughable in the very least. First of all he was amped by every magician so he was rediculously powerful. and secondly this was a very weakened Spectre and third that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread so why mention it..and fourth Spectre beats Captain Marvel.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Superherovandal
First of all he was amped by every magician so he was rediculously powerful. and secondly this was a very weakened Spectre and third that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread so why mention it..and fourth Spectre beats Captain Marvel. spectre defeated him while he wasnt amped. he was amped by all remaining magicians. still the wrath should be able to defeat him. hes the wrath.

Superherovandal
he's also not listening to God therefore he's nowhere his normal levels. His power is entirely dependent on God for power. and as he wasn't doing God's will he'd obviously be weaker. However this has absolutely no relevence to the thread...Mine at least did you said that Death was different so it was irrelevent. However you cannot prove that MU's Death is stronger...in fact it would be easier to prove it was weaker..

quanchi112
Originally posted by Superherovandal
he's also not listening to God therefore he's nowhere his normal levels. His power is entirely dependent on God for power. and as he wasn't doing God's will he'd obviously be weaker. However this has absolutely no relevence to the thread...Mine at least did you said that Death was different so it was irrelevent. However you cannot prove that MU's Death is stronger...in fact it would be easier to prove it was weaker.. boh deaths are equal. dont make me bring in obliov to back up death. dc has no counterpart to oblivion how do they?

Stupid Rookie
Michael is Supposed to be the strongest of all creations in DC isn't he?

He owned the Spectre, and I think he "could" take the LT. It is impossible to truly know who would win, but I think Michael might have what it takes to take down the LT.

Astner
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
Michael is Supposed to be the strongest of all creations in DC isn't he?

He owned the Spectre, and I think he "could" take the LT. It is impossible to truly know who would win, but I think Michael might have what it takes to take down the LT.
Actually the Presence is above him.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Astner
Actually the Presence is above him.

Didn't Yahweh create him is what I meant. He was created to be the strongest.

Stupid Rookie
In both companies there are beings abover everything. God, TOAA, whatever you want to call it. Michael was created to be the manifestation of that power wasn't he?

I could be wrong, I don't claim to be a DC expert.

Astner
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
In both companies there are beings abover everything. God, TOAA, whatever you want to call it. Michael was created to be the manifestation of that power wasn't he?

I could be wrong, I don't claim to be a DC expert.
Presence can unmake/kill Michael at any moment, Michael can´t kill the Presence.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Superherovandal
yeah but at least DC's death hasn't been pwned by a certain sorcerer named Dr Strange before.

Strange never pwnd or even hurt Death.

Death allowed Strange to fool himself into believing that for a moment.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Astner
Presence can unmake/kill Michael at any moment, Michael can´t kill the Presence.
I am not arguing that Michael can kill the presence. But after the Presence isn't Michael pretty much the most powerful?

The Presence could take out the LT with ease couldn't it?

Astner
After the One Above All, the Living Tribunal is the most powerful.

Erik-Lensherr
5 pages for a fight Michael wins easily? laughing

Astner
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
5 pages for a fight Michael wins easily? laughing
OK, not to be a pain, but you´re really DC biased.

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by Astner
OK, not to be a pain, but you´re really DC biased.

Not really . They simply are more powerfull .

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Astner
After the One Above All, the Living Tribunal is the most powerful.

I think there are others that are in between. HOTU is the power of TOAA, couldn't that be like the Demiurgos. Also Pre-Retcon Molecule Man, and Beyonder could be stronger than LT.

Astner
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Not really . They simply are more powerfull .
That was the most ignorant reply I've even seen.
Not to mention, you started this thread.

Astner
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
I think there are others that are in between. HOTU is the power of TOAA, couldn't that be like the Demiurgos. Also Pre-Retcon Molecule Man, and Beyonder could be stronger than LT.
They do not longer exist, they never did exist that´s the point of retconing someone.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Astner
They do not longer exist, they never did exist that´s the point of retconing someone.

Point taken. I still think this is a tough match, but the Michael can maybe take it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Astner
OK, not to be a pain, but you´re really DC biased. thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Not really . They simply are more powerfull . provide some scans to back up ur claims.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Not really . They simply are more powerfull .

This coming from the dumbass that thinks Goku can beat Thanos.

And yes they are powerFULL haermm

kevdude
Originally posted by Air Legend
And you're worse than Phenomenal.

Why do you waste time posting?? This is coming from the guy that truly thinks TOAA is a real person laughing

joesdabest1
Michael Vs LT - Mike

Michael Vs Thanos w/Hotu - Stalemate

Endless Mike
Originally posted by kevdude
Why do you waste time posting?? This is coming from the guy that truly thinks TOAA is a real person laughing

Jack Kirby wasn't a real person?

kevdude
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Jack Kirby wasn't a real person?

Yup hes a real person but hes in the comic and a comic character shown as God 2 separate things . Anyone that thinks jack can put himself in the comic literally needs to stop reading comics and go outside wink

quanchi112
Originally posted by kevdude
Why do you waste time posting?? This is coming from the guy that truly thinks TOAA is a real person laughing oh broher. its funny how this is inevtiable here. people debate then fling mud in each others eyes. lay off the insults and prove him worng with ur points not ur insults.

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
oh broher. its funny how this is inevtiable here. people debate then fling mud in each others eyes. lay off the insults and prove him worng with ur points not ur insults. Now wait a minute, I put you ignore, but I HAVE to respond to this. Why can the guy who calls him names, doesn't have to prove his points, and he does? I smell a double standard. You dislike it when people insult you, yet when your buddy does the same it's all good. You are really full of crap.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
Now wait a minute, I put you ignore, but I HAVE to respond to this. Why can the guy who calls him names, doesn't have to prove his points, and he does? I smell a double standard. You dislike it when people insult you, yet when your buddy does the same it's all good. You are really full of crap. so u dont respond to my points but this. laughing

i dont like it when anyone insults anyone on here. glad to see ur still paying attention.


stick out tongue

kevdude
Well I wasn't the 1 that threw mud in his eye first q, you know that, and i've given more then enough points about Michael but you ignore them, you won't EVEN go to Lucifers respect thread yourself and you want me to post things for YOU!! btw i'm done with this thread, its old and ended long ago..

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
so u dont respond to my points but this. laughing

i dont like it when anyone insults anyone on here. glad to see ur still paying attention.


stick out tongue And I still do...

I've seen you rub your shit in peoples faces, for what you do yourself. Hmm, I recall you getting onto someone for speaking on how they dislike Superman, and you are the same person, who made a statement similar to that one. Look in the mirror, your not as innocent as you make yourself out to be. Your a hypocrite and a instigator.

Superherovandal
oh and Micheal's energy spawned a multiverse not a universe.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
And I still do...

I've seen you rub your shit in peoples faces, for what you do yourself. Hmm, I recall you getting onto someone for speaking on how they dislike Superman, and you are the same person, who made a statement similar to that one. Look in the mirror, your not as innocent as you make yourself out to be. Your a hypocrite and a instigator. wow u really do pay attention to what i post on here a little to much. they prolly not only disliked superman but didnt give him the credit he deserved. i myself hate superman but give him his due credit.

that is me though mr. unbiased.

i dont instigate i try to break up namecalling flamewars. its not my cup of tea so to speak. listen dont hate me ok and think im this eil person. i just want to post my opinion here. why do people get so angry on here. i wouldnt come here if i fumed all the time over dissenting opinions. relax and enjoy this great forum that we are all a part of. k.



wink

Air Legend
Originally posted by starking
Now wait a minute,
Ok...
Originally posted by starking
I put you ignore,
Yes, you put quanchi ignore dur
Originally posted by starking
but I HAVE to respond to this.
No you didn't. You had the choice to keep on ignoring him.
Originally posted by starking
Why can the guy who calls him names, doesn't have to prove his points, and he does?
Actually, I didn't call him any names on this thread. The only insult I insinuated was that he was worse than phenomenol and that was only because of his arrogant attitude. Here it is:
Originally posted by quanchi112
different deaths. so its a moot point. thanos pawned death with the ig. he was supreme with this power and would curbstomp michael.

lt wins this.

Originally posted by kevdude
You are almost as bad as phenom on his pro DBGT

OK now what makes him almost as bad as phenomenol? Are they different deaths? Yes. Was Thanos w/ IG superior to death?yes Was he supreme with the IG? well according to the narrotor he held "the mantle of supremacy" but the LT was greater so of course he wasn't supreme. Curbstomp michael? Not happening if Michaels is at full power . It wins this? Yes.

That is nowhere near as bad as Phenomenol- "Buu stares at Thanos and Thanos dies!"
Originally posted by starking
I smell a double standard. You dislike it when people insult you, yet when your buddy does the same it's all good.
It's ok with quanchi when I insult him? laughing Sweet. I'm going to call him all sorts of names from now on. rolling on floor laughing
Originally posted by starking
You are really full of crap.
Nice way to end your speech of quanchi and his double standards on insults- with an insult. laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by Air Legend
Ok...

Yes, you put quanchi ignore dur

No you didn't. You had the choice to keep on ignoring him.

Actually, I didn't call him any names on this thread. The only insult I insinuated was that he was worse than phenomenol and that was only because of his arrogant attitude. Here it is:




OK now what makes him almost as bad as phenomenol? Are they different deaths? Yes. Was Thanos w/ IG superior to death?yes Was he supreme with the IG? well according to the narrotor he held "the mantle of supremacy" but the LT was greater so of course he wasn't supreme. Curbstomp michael? Not happening if Michaels is at full power . It wins this? Yes.

That is nowhere near as bad as Phenomenol- "Buu stares at Thanos and Thanos dies!"

It's ok with quanchi when I insult him? laughing Sweet. I'm going to call him all sorts of names from now on. rolling on floor laughing

Nice way to end your speech of quanchi and his double standards on insults- with an insult. laughing out loud he took me off ignore to throw an insult my way. i wish people on here would take the mature route once in a while and leave the insults in their minds and not way a post with them.

Merlyn
Originally posted by Air Legend
You sound like nvr sick And you sound like quanchi.


See?

I can indirectly member bash, and add nothing to a debate as well...


Grow up. smile

starking
Originally posted by Air Legend
Ok...

Yes, you put quanchi ignore dur

No you didn't. You had the choice to keep on ignoring him.

Actually, I didn't call him any names on this thread. The only insult I insinuated was that he was worse than phenomenol and that was only because of his arrogant attitude. Here it is:




OK now what makes him almost as bad as phenomenol? Are they different deaths? Yes. Was Thanos w/ IG superior to death?yes Was he supreme with the IG? well according to the narrotor he held "the mantle of supremacy" but the LT was greater so of course he wasn't supreme. Curbstomp michael? Not happening if Michaels is at full power . It wins this? Yes.

That is nowhere near as bad as Phenomenol- "Buu stares at Thanos and Thanos dies!"

It's ok with quanchi when I insult him? laughing Sweet. I'm going to call him all sorts of names from now on. rolling on floor laughing

Nice way to end your speech of quanchi and his double standards on insults- with an insult. laughing out loud You have reading comprehension problems, don't you?

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
Back to the topic at hand.

If Michael is truly the embodiment of the Presence's power then Michael wins.


But I have never seen a scan that clearly states that Michael has the Presence's power. "God had vested in you the Demiurgic power. The word of fire that builds and breaks":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg


Demiurge (Demiurgos):

1.) "Many Gnostic philosophers identify the Demiurge with Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament."

2.) "Christian church fathers used the word Demiurge to describe God as creator."


So by the very meaning of the word, we know the power God vests in Michael, , is the "power of God"..




Though the first scan demonstrates this fact the best, here's a few more instances I came across...


-Raphael on Michael-

"Michael is a vessel for the Divine power. If he dies, if that vessel cracks.... The worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike1.jpg



-A weak Michael speaks on his power-

"You know what I am, and what I contain. By torturing me, you put the whole of creation, at terrible risk":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2-1.jpg



Not to mention that the power contained within a greatly weakened Michael, was sufficient to create a Multiverse from nothingness.

Astner
Question, how the heck was he tortured if he has the power of Yahweh, not to mention that the other scans are pretty vage--which usually means hyperbole, none directly refers to the Presence or Yahweh, nor does Yahweh stat them as equals.

Not to mention that even you stat the Great Evil Beast and the Source above him.

Galan007
Originally posted by Astner
Question, how the heck was he tortured if he has the power of Yahweh..Because he had began to fall from Yahweh's graces.

And again, even in this state, the power within Michael created a Multiverse.
Originally posted by Astner
not to mention that the other scans are pretty vage--which usually means hyperbole, none directly refers to the Presence or Yahweh, nor does Yahweh stat them as equals. Vague?

The Demiurgic power, directly references the power of God. confused

Air Legend
Originally posted by Merlyn
And you sound like quanchi.
Because I think the LT would win?
Originally posted by Merlyn
See?
No, not really....
Originally posted by Merlyn
I can indirectly member bash, and add nothing to a debate as well...
I couldn't stand the fact that he actually thought Thanos w/HOTI absorbed just a universe or multiverse. That's just like nvr- spewing bullshit about Marvel. Good thing Mr Master was here to correct him.
Originally posted by Merlyn
Grow up. smile
I don't say things without a reason. smile

Air Legend
Originally posted by starking
You have reading comprehension problems, don't you?
This is your response. laughing
You have writing problems. You're just not smart enough to know it.

guy222
Originally posted by Air Legend
This is your response. laughing
You have writing problems. You're just not smart enough to know it.

Lets stay on topic. Insults and getting the last word will only get the mods involve and another good topic will be closed. Warnings issued as well.

IMO, LT wins.

Air Legend
Originally posted by guy222
Lets stay on topic. Insults and getting the last word will only get the mods involve and another good topic will be closed. Warnings issued as well.

IMO, LT wins.
otay wink

Astner
Originally posted by Galan007
Because he had began to fall from Yahweh's graces.
So he was tortured by ... ? -- I mean he would still have the power he was created with, would he not?


OK, Demiurge is supose to be the power of the creator, ture.
But he could have an aspect of that power, a fraction.

Again, you concur on that he is not equal to other aspects of God, namely the Source and the Great Evil Beast, correct?

Merlyn
Originally posted by Air Legend
Because I think the LT would win?

No, not really....

I couldn't stand the fact that he actually thought Thanos w/HOTI absorbed just a universe or multiverse. That's just like nvr- spewing bullshit about Marvel. Good thing Mr Master was here to correct him.

I don't say things without a reason. smile Regardless of how much you like Mr M, he really doesn't make valid points ALL the time.

Every thread I've seen him post in has nothing but the same scans and smilie faces we always see..... And his very arrogant attitude of course.


And then you come in with your childish posts, without making any relevent points.


Meh, whatever.. There's no point dragging it even more off topic. (though I'm sure "someone" will feel the need to chime in and get that last word).... Not talking about you. smileOriginally posted by Galan007
"God had vested in you the Demiurgic power. The word of fire that builds and breaks":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg


Demiurge (Demiurgos):

1.) "Many Gnostic philosophers identify the Demiurge with Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament."

2.) "Christian church fathers used the word Demiurge to describe God as creator."


So by the very meaning of the word, we know the power God vests in Michael, , is the "power of God"..




Though the first scan demonstrates this fact the best, here's a few more instances I came across...


-Raphael on Michael-

"Michael is a vessel for the Divine power. If he dies, if that vessel cracks.... The worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike1.jpg



-A weak Michael speaks on his power-

"You know what I am, and what I contain. By torturing me, you put the whole of creation, at terrible risk":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2-1.jpg



Not to mention that the power contained within a greatly weakened Michael, was sufficient to create a Multiverse from nothingness. thumb up

Air Legend
Michael has the power of creation (demiurgic power), not God's power. If he had God's power he'd be able to do everything and anything, which is not the case.

Galan007
Originally posted by Astner
So he was tortured by ... ? -- I mean he would still have the power he was created with, would he not? He never tried to prevent the torture.... Felt it was "God's plan", I guess.

Originally posted by Astner
OK, Demiurge is supose to be the power of the creator, ture.
But he could have an aspect of that power, a fraction.Nowhere is it implied that he has a fraction of God's power.... That's just your opinion.

Originally posted by Astner
Again, you concur on that he is not equal to other aspects of God, namely the Source and the Great Evil Beast, correct? God is greater then Michael, because God decides what his power will be.


Same with every other character, as a matter of fact.

Galan007
Originally posted by Air Legend
Michael has the power of creation (demiurgic power), not God's power. If he had God's power he'd be able to do everything and anything, which is not the case. confused

The Demiurge, is a word used to describe God himself in some religions.... So...

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
"God had vested in you the Demiurgic power. The word of fire that builds and breaks":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg

According to Webster's Dictionary,

the Demiurge is A "subordinate deity"

Originally posted by Galan007
Demiurge (Demiurgos):

1.) "Many Gnostic philosophers identify the Demiurge with Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament."

"Gnostics?" (I thought the DC divine hierarchy was based on Judeo-Christianity)


Becareful, you're actually telling us Michael is below the Power of God.

"Gnosticism generally taught that matter was evil,
and was the creation of a lesser "god", called the Demiurge, after Plato.

reference:
(http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/GNOSTICISM)


Originally posted by Galan007
2.) "Christian church fathers used the word Demiurge to describe God as creator."

"church fathers" are individuals ... not the ones who define or created the term.



The term itself concerning meaning differs:
.......................................................................................

From Webster'a Dictionary:


1. In the language of Platonists,
means that mysterious agent which made the world and all that it contains.

2. The Logos or Word spoken of by St. John, in the first chapter of his gospel,
is the Demiurgus of Platonising Christians.

.......................................................................................

3. In the Gnostic systems, Jehovah
(as an eon or emanation of the Supreme Being) is the Demiurge.

4.. According to Winchell: Science and Religion:
"The power is not that of an absolute cause, but only a world-maker,
a Demiurge; and this does not answer to the human idea of deity."

.......................................................................................

Origin

5. The term Demiurge or Ialdaboth (Yaltabaoth and several other variants)
is a name given within some belief systems to a deity responsible
for the creation of the physical universe and the physical aspect of humanity.

6. The word is derived from the ancient Greek ?????????? (démiourgos),
meaning an artisan or craftsman.
(This word in turn comes from ?????? "official"
which in turn comes from ????? "people"
and ????? meaning "creation" or "piece of work".)

.......................................................................................

7. Although the term is used in a number of different religious and philosophical systems
(most notably Platonism and Gnosticism)
the precise nature and character of the Demiurge varies considerably,
from being the benign architect of matter in some systems,
to the personification of evil in others.

8. Plato refers to the Demiurge frequently in the Timaeus
as the entity who "fashioned and shaped" the material world.

9. Gnosticism also presents this distinction between the overall "creator" and the Demiurge.
However, in contrast to Plato,
many systems of Gnostic thought present the Demiurge
as being antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Creator.

.......................................................................................

reference:
(http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/Demiurge)

.......................................................................................


Originally posted by Galan007
So by the very meaning of the word, we know the power God vests in Michael, , is the "power of God"..

I never came across any definitve proof that relates
the power of God himself, with the Demiurge.

In fact, all I got is that the Demiurge is a lesser force/deity that God uses to Create.

Even the Gnostics make a distinction between "the Creator" and the Demiurge.

Originally posted by Galan007
Though the first scan demonstrates this fact the best, here's a few more instances I came across...

"Michael is a vessel for the Divine power. If he dies, if that vessel cracks.... The worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike1.jpg

So if Michael dies, all life in the Universe dies.

Cool,

same thing would happen if Captain Universe dies in Marvel:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1262/cu3ua0.th.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
-A weak Michael speaks on his power-

"You know what I am, and what I contain. By torturing me, you put the whole of creation, at terrible risk":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2-1.jpg

If Galactus dies, the whole of Creation is at a terrible risk aswell in Marvel.

Being essential to Creation is not really something unique to Michael.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not to mention that the power contained within a greatly weakened Michael, was sufficient to create a Multiverse from nothingness.

Absolutely,

Michael has the power to Create, all of Reality if need be.

But does this make him equal to God's absolute power?

Not IMO. ... Not if it's based on the meaning of the Demiurge.



If all it took was the power to Create to be one with God's power in DC,

Mxy would also be the Demiurge right?
(He erased and remade DC ... that's even more than Michael)

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
confused

The Demiurge, is a word used to describe God himself in some religions.... So...
In some religions maybe, but the Presence is suppose to represent the Abrahamic God. The word demiurge is just the power of creation in this case.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Air Legend
In some religions maybe, but the Presence is suppose to represent the Abrahamic God. The word demiurge is just the power of creation in this case.

I have to agree.

That's what I just discovered.

The Demiurge is the power of creation ... Not of God.

The power of God is superior to the power of the Demiurge
(this is a Fact in Judeo-Christianity)

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
I never came across any definitve proof that relates
the power of God himself, with the Demiurge.

In fact, all I got is that the Demiurge is a lesser force/deity that God uses to Create.

Even the Gnostics make a distinction between "the Creator" and the Demiurge. Concerning that word, I noticed different dictionary sites have differing definitions on that word...

So instead of picking and choosing which ones worked best with my argument, I used my personal dictionary, .
Originally posted by Mr Master
So if Michael dies, all life in the Universe dies.

Cool,

same thing would happen if Captain Universe dies in Marvel:

If Galactus dies, the whole of Creation is at a terrible risk aswell in Marvel.

Being essential to Creation is not really something unique to Michael.What goes on over in Marvel, does not concern Michael in the slightest.

Thus relating them to eachother is of no concern to me...


I mean if what you say is true,

In Marvel, all you need to do is destroy the 616 Universe, and you can collapse the Omniverse.... So..

Galan007
Originally posted by Air Legend
The word demiurge is just the power of creation in this case. Not in that instance.

God wouldn't have just given Michael the power of creation, if he was intended to destroy Hell's army. ...

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Galan007
Not in that instance.

God wouldn't have just given Michael the power of creation, if he was intended to destroy Hell's army. ...

I agree, I mean it is stated on panel that he could have defeated the legions of hell isn't it. I mean defeating Lucifer and his army is a task pretty much nothing in comics could do.

Galan007
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
I agree, I mean it is stated on panel that he could have defeated the legions of hell isn't it. I mean defeating Lucifer and his army is a task pretty much nothing in comics could do. Yep,

It was stated he could have ended all the Angels of Hell "with a gesture".

BobbyD
Anything that looks like this, will not go down easy.


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/...19931012if7.jpg

They are one and the same, IMO.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Galan007
Yep,

It was stated he could have ended all the Angels of Hell "with a gesture".

I agree with you on this Galan, I think Mr. Master makes a good argument, but I still feel that on panel Michael is shown to have power even greater than the LT.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
Not in that instance.

God wouldn't have just given Michael the power of creation, if he was intended to destroy Hell's army. ...

That was just hyperbole. Michael has the power of creation. Face the fact.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by BobbyD
Anything that looks like this, will not go down easy.


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/...19931012if7.jpg

They are one and the same, IMO.

Couldn't get the link to work. I do think that there are good arguments for both sides, and it certainly wouldn't be an easy victory for either of them. This is one of those debated where I don't think anyone is proven wrong, just different opinions.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
Couldn't get the link to work. I do think that there are good arguments for both sides, and it certainly wouldn't be an easy victory for either of them. This is one of those debated where I don't think anyone is proven wrong, just different opinions.

Oops...sorry. It's a link found in the Respect Spectre thread where Spectre meets Michael.

Galan007
Originally posted by Air Legend
That was just hyperbole. Michael has the power of creation. Face the fact. Hyperbole is a word thrown around here to try and discredit that which people don't agree with...

A word that hardly disproves anything.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by BobbyD
Oops...sorry. It's a link found in the Respect Spectre thread where Spectre meets Michael.
Ahh I remember that battle, awesome fight, Michael really is a beast.

Galan007
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
I agree with you on this Galan, I think Mr. Master makes a good argument, but I still feel that on panel Michael is shown to have power even greater than the LT. I agree.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
Hyperbole is a word thrown around here to try and discredit that which people don't agree with...

A word that hardly disproves anything.

So you still think Michael has the power of God even though it's a proven fact that the demiurge means the power of creation in this case? lol

Galan007
And as for Demiurgic power only being a creative force....


"God had vested in you the Demiurgic power. The word of fire that builds and breaks":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg


To me,

Builds = creates
Breaks= destroys


smile

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Galan007
"God had vested in you the Demiurgic power. The word of fire that builds and breaks":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg




"Builds and Breaks"

Not just builds. If it just builds, then why did Lucifer have to speed Michael away when he was near death. If he died on earth the destruction would have been total.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
And as for Demiurgic power only being a creative force....


"God had vested in you the Demiurgic power. The word of fire that builds and breaks":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg


To me,

Builds = creates
Breaks= destroys


smile

You think the power of creation doesn't allow one to destroy things? lol

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Galan007
And as for Demiurgic power only being a creative force....


"God had vested in you the Demiurgic power. The word of fire that builds and breaks":

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mike2.jpg


To me,

Builds = creates
Breaks= destroys


smile

Ha ha, good thinking... Thanks for the scan.

Galan007
Originally posted by Air Legend
So you still think Michael has the power of God No.

I think God can give Michael his power, but take it back just as easily.

Thus making God perpetually > Michael. smile

Originally posted by Air Legend
even though it's a proven fact that the demiurge means the power of creation in this case? lol Creation AND destruction. smile

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
No.

I think God can give Michael his power, but take it back just as easily.

Thus making God perpetually > Michael. smile

See above. smile

So your explanation for everything is God can give him the power if he wants? lol. I guess TOAA can't do the same.

Galan007
Originally posted by Air Legend
So your explanation for everything is God can give him the power if he wants? lol. Seeing as how God vested the Demiurgic power in Michael, on panel....... Yeah that's basically what I'm saying. smile

Goddess Kali
Micheal is God's Creative Power manifested.


He is not the embodyment of God's power.


Lucifer is the manifestation of God's will, which is why he alone has the power to truly defy Yahweh. He is the wild card.

Lucifer is a greater threat than Micheal, because Lucifer is the will. While Micheal has the raw fire of creation, Lucifer has the will to shape it. Lucifer has the will to find some way to make existance succumb to him.

That is why nearly nothing is impossible for Lucifer, for even in human form, he can still prevail. His will is infinite and will always be in tact.


Micheal does not possess Lucifer's will. Micheal only possesses raw power.



Spectre is the Wrath. He is not the power of creation, he is not the Will, he is the Wrath. He is Anger personified, and his authority is that of the Presence's.


Technically, all three are infinite, because they are direct aspects of Yahweh/The Presence. They each have different roles, however.




****

The Living Tribunal is not like Micheal and Lucifer or Spectre. He is not sentimental, he is not attached, he is not "good or evil", he is indifferent. LT does what he must, not what he wants to do.


He is second only to TOAA, and he judges universes, multiverses as he sees fit. Good and Evil mean jack shit to him. He would gladly sacrafice a universe to save five others.


LT, is Authority embodied. It's not about creation, will, or wrath. It's about sheer Authority.


Multi-Eternity is below LT.



Lucifer, Yahweh, and Elaine created three "Multi-Eternities" at best. In DC/Vertigo, a Creation is a multiverse. A universe with possibly infinite alternate realities.


LT is ABOVE Multi Eternity.


Marvel is full of megaverses which contain countless "multi eternities", and the omniverse contains who knows how many megaversus.



LT is the Authority between these realms.



The Heart of the Infinity was a portion and/or embodyment of TOAA's power. That is why Thanos exceeded even LT.


Thanos was supposed to cure a "cancer" within creation, that TOAA saw unfit. TOAA was apparently working through Thanos, without even LT knowing.



Yahweh/Presence can easily defeat and over ride the likes of Lucifer, Micheal, and Spectre.


Likewise, TOAA can override and overpower even LT.


**************************************************




So it basically comes down to Micheal (power of creation) vs Living Tribunal (TOAA's Authority).


Micheal's power is equivalent to a multiverse. Maybe a few.

The Ultamate Nullifier can destroy a multiverse.

LT is above Multi Eternity, and above the Ultamate Nullifier.



I am convinced that Living Tribunal would ultamately be the victor in a serious fight against Micheal.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
Seeing as how God vested the Demiurgic power in Michael, on panel....... Yeah that's basically what I'm saying. smile
Originally posted by Air Legend
So your explanation for everything is God can give him the power if he wants? lol. I guess TOAA can't do the same.


Also
Originally posted by Air Legend
You think the power of creation doesn't allow one to destroy things? lol

Stupid Rookie
I don't really understand what the argument is. I mean of course god, or TOAA can remove a being's power. If TOAA decides to get rid of the LT there isn't much the LT can do.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Concerning that word, I noticed different dictionary sites have differing definitions on that word...

So instead of picking and choosing which ones worked best with my argument, I used my personal dictionary, .

I only trust Webster's Dictionary. (It's #1 in the world)

That's where my info comes from.

Originally posted by Galan007
What goes on over in Marvel, does not concern Michael in the slightest.

Thus relating them to eachother is of no concern to me...

Fair enough.

So I'll pull out a DC example.

If Michael dies all Creation dies,

same thing happens if Darkseid dies:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/772/legion29022fcyi2.th.jpg

"Darkseid is torn violently out of the Continuum,
his sudden absence creates a catastrophic Temporal shockwave,

Time itself and the Universe is progressively annihilated"



http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9171/legion29032lsbl1.th.jpg

"All Creation dissolves"



http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3436/legion29105kobn6.th.jpg



Even the Anti-Monitor is wipe out during COIE:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5391/legion29134fttf8.th.jpg


So again,

being essential to Creation is not unique to Michael.

Originally posted by Galan007
I mean if what you say is true,

In Marvel, all you need to do is destroy the 616 Universe,
and you can collapse the Omniverse.... So..

I didn't say that, Marvel did. smile

And they demonstrated this on panel,

I also posted the scans yesterday depicting Uatu explaining it on panel.
(exactly what Marvel.com says .. with even more detail)

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Micheal is God's Creative **************************************************


So it basically comes down to Micheal (power of creation) vs Living Tribunal (TOAA's Authority).


Micheal's power is equivalent to a multiverse. Maybe a few.

The Ultamate Nullifier can destroy a multiverse.

LT is above Multi Eternity, and above the Ultamate Nullifier.



I am convinced that Living Tribunal would ultamately be the victor in a serious fight against Micheal.

GOod argument, but I don't see how a creation in Marvel can so easily be said to be equal or greater than Micheal. I don't think that there is any tech that could destroy Michael.

I might be wrong, but that is my opinion.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
Ahh I remember that battle, awesome fight, Michael really is a beast.

From the scans in that fight, it would seem that Spectre put up a good showing (a testament to Spectre power), but Michael merely vanishes him to another plane when he's had enough of him. ...would seem that Michael spares him too (a testament to his power).

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