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Who takes this fight?

Sentry!

sentry

Flash.

Originally posted by KMC_Drifter
Who takes this fight?

sentry

The fight would go something like this, IMO.

Flash punches up Sentry in the air (obviously Flash would get the first hit)
Sentry stays in the air, Flash starts to toss things at him, Sentry gets hit, grabs some of them, tosses them back until he his Flash.

Sentry

Flash blitzes him for the win,what is Sentry gonna do really?
Did people forget what happened when Bart went after SBP?

Bart is the frigging Speed-force.

Sentry's gonna hit what now? I don't think he could Wally, he's definitely not touching Bart.

That was Prime, and he had to sneak him for the win, what happens if Prime was ready for Bart? Also we really don't know Sentries true potential, nor do we know how powerful the Collective was, I'm sure that the Collective would fry Bart like he did to Ms.Marvel.

Sentry is too much for Bart, the only thing I see Bart doing to Sentry is annoy him, and let's not forget the Under a Red Sun thing as far as Prime is concerned, Sentry does not have these weakness'. Wasn't that how they contained Prime?

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
That was Prime, and he had to sneak him for the win, what happens if Prime was ready for Bart? Also we really don't know Sentries true potential, nor do we know how powerful the Collective was, I'm sure that the Collective would fry Bart like he did to Ms.Marvel.

Sentry is too much for Bart, the only thing I see Bart doing to Sentry is annoy him, and let's not forget the Under a Red Sun thing as far as Prime is concerned, Sentry does not have these weakness'. Wasn't that how they contained Prime?

.........I take it you never heard of the IMP? Or anything else that the Flash has done in the last 10 years? haermm

Flash ftw.

You still did not prove that Bart would win against Sentry... how would he win? and where is your proof? The Void is Sentry correct? can you honestly gauge the voids power?

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
That was Prime, and he had to sneak him for the win, what happens if Prime was ready for Bart?
He sneaked? That's called a speed blitz and if Prime couldn't handle it Sentry sure as hell can't.Lets not forget Prime had a bloody nose and was screaming in fear "get away from me Bart".Why didn't Prime stick around and fight it out? That's right he was scared of Bart,who's the Speed force.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic

We've seen enough of Sentry to determine that he'd stand no chance against someone as fast as Bart.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Sentry is too much for Bart, the only thing I see Bart doing to Sentry is annoy him, and let's not forget the Under a Red Sun thing as far as Prime is concerned, Sentry does not have these weakness'. Wasn't that how they contained Prime?
Bart schooled Prime out side while Prime was wearing his suit...
I highly doubt Sentry can take thousands of hits a second,again hits that bloodied SBP.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
You still did not prove that Bart would win against Sentry... how would he win? and where is your proof? The Void is Sentry correct? can you honestly gauge the voids power?

Can Sentry survive an Infinite Mass Punch? Having his motion drained? Vibrational explosions? Permanently draining all kinetic energy? BFR by time travel, or by Speedforce dump?

HELL NAH. dur

this is assuming that prime can take Sentry right? we have not seen the extent of his power, are you saying that bart is now the most powerful hero on DC Earth? Sentry is no slouch in the speed dept. either, how are you so sure that he could not catch Bart and toss him into deep sace where he will surely die? prove all of this. I like the Flash (Wally in particular) I just never saw them in the light that you do.

I'll wait for the opinions of other posters I as it has been established that our opinions differ greatly.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
this is assuming that prime can take Sentry right? we have not seen the extent of his power, are you saying that bart is now the most powerful hero on DC Earth? Sentry is no slouch in the speed dept. either, how are you so sure that he could not catch Bart and toss him into deep sace where he will surely die? prove all of this. I like the Flash (Wally in particular) I just never saw them in the light that you do.
Sentry gets one shotted by Prime...
Actually it's debatable that Bart was the most powerful for that short stint that he was around.
Sentry IS a slouch when compared to Bart....FACT.

What stops Bart from just stealing all of Sentry's speed making him unable to move then pummeling him at light speed with IMP's?

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
this is assuming that prime can take Sentry right? we have not seen the extent of his power, are you saying that bart is now the most powerful hero on DC Earth? Sentry is no slouch in the speed dept. either, how are you so sure that he could not catch Bart and toss him into deep sace where he will surely die? prove all of this. I like the Flash (Wally in particular) I just never saw them in the light that you do.

.........You think Sentry can take SBP? Go read his respect thread, and then Flash's.

Then immediately come back here and apologize for being a fanboy. 313

Seriously go read the threads.

Originally posted by Kento
What stops Bart from just stealing all of Sentry's speed making him unable to move then pummeling him at light speed with IMP's?
Sentry's untapped Potential...durfist

So I guess this means that Bart could make the a million mutants resort to opening up a wormhole to get rid of him, because he was so much trouble for them right? Or Bart could hold off Galactus all by himself? Or Bart could utterly crush a Terrax that was recently seen destroying a planet? I just don't see it... how often does Bart shine the way that he did when he grabbed hold of Super Boy Prime? Also Prime is not telepathic, hence he was not able to avoid Barts rush. Prime was also seen taking on many other heroes, one on one Bart would not have a chance against Prime, face it. Or do you really believe that Bart could take on an entire contingent of GL's coupled by DC earths mightiest.... I don't think so.

It doesn't matter how strong somebody is when they can't move and can only sit there taking IMP after IMP.

Sentry

Mindrape FTW

Originally posted by tkitna
Sentry

Mindrape FTW



This is what I was thinking, I think he would beat Bart with a smile on his face like he did to Terrax.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
This is what I was thinking, I think he would beat Bart with a smile on his face like he did to Terrax. I doubt that he'd be able to do so...Batman once told Flash that if he could outthink ( or not talk and just move at full speed) Fernus aka evil MM...that he'd be unaffected by telepathy. Also Sentry has shown no speed feats to put him near Supes let alone the Flash. Flash could do a million things to Sentry before he could even utter a thought.

Sentry moves so fast that he can be in one place avert a disaster and be back before you finish using the bathroom, these are not speed feats? If not please tell me what they are?

Read his mini again, remember when he was with his wife and he crossed the globe to stop some disaster and she thought that he went to the bathroom? I call that pretty damn fast.

Yet it's still not up to Flash's par...he can't hang with Flash..Wally who didn't have the speed force in him was able to be on the Titans and the JLA at the same time and noone knew the difference...He carried over 500,000 people 32 miles by ones and twos...in less than a split second..then theres the fact that Flash could just easily speed steal from Sentry and Sentry'd be helpless.

What of the power of thought? Is Bart truly unfazed by tp? Are you saying that Bart should be named the Juggernaut? I don't think so, how would he speed steal if Sentry was cracking his bones? how could he do all of theses things if he were in the air... I'm about to call a stalemate because there are too many variables in this fight, Sentry isn't a one trick pony, I mean what's to say that speed steal, or IMP is even viable against Sentry, we really don't know how fast Sentry is he may be faster than Gladiator, and he (Gladiator) far outstrips Wally or Bart, in the speed department, also did anyone care to notice that anyone moving at speeds so great carrying people would not only ripp them to pieces, but it would cause global disasters within said biosphere? Whatever I have to get to work now, Bioshock is out today, what a day I will have.... I kinda wish I were Wally or Bart.

Gladiator doesn't outstrip Wally in anything when it comes to speed...The thing you forget is that Sentry would have a hard time even finding where Flash would be let alone crush him...this Flash beat Zoom who was owning WW and hit harder than Supes and this is the same Zoom that Wally needed a powerup to even hope to beat...and at that speed Supes was a statue along with everyone else on Earth...and Bart easily dispensed him...oh and i'm pretty sure that a speed steal will be viable on Sentry...Wally said he could do it to Supes...Jay actually has done it to Supes...and Wally has done it to an entire planet. So i doubt it wouldn't work.

Bart beat Zoom in a few pages without too much trouble. That's something not even Wally has done.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
I'll wait for the opinions of other posters I as it has been established that our opinions differ greatly. Sentry loses. Read some Flash.

It really depends on how Emo Sentry is. I.e. if he's being written by Bendis, he should get his ass handed to him. If he's in full confidence and actually has the power of one billiongazillionmallion exploding suns, then he can surely just throw the moon at the plane ?t, causing it to split in half and go into a period of cooling that will probably take about a hundred years. Bart gets BBQ in the process of course.

Bart isnt stealing anything from the Sentry. Last I checked, the speedforce didnt exist in Marvel.

Also, from what i'm reading, people are speaking as if the Flash is the most powerful earth bound hero in comics. Somebody ought to at least tell DC this.

Originally posted by tkitna
Bart isnt stealing anything from the Sentry. Last I checked, the speedforce didnt exist in Marvel.

Also, from what i'm reading, people are speaking as if the Flash is the most powerful earth bound hero in comics. Somebody ought to at least tell DC this.

Oh you're gonna pull that bullshit? bullshit I've got news for you, on KMC all powers are considered active by default.

2nd, as Skeets said, it's actually debatable that Bart was the most powerful for the time he was around. He was the personification of the speed force. doped

Stoic: The reason he can move so fast, without ripping people apart or causing disasters, is the speed force. Now go read some DC, or at least Flash's respect thread. Since it is clear you know nothing of his abilities or DC in general.

Originally posted by tkitna
Bart isnt stealing anything from the Sentry. Last I checked, the speedforce didnt exist in Marvel.

He is actually

Thanks to the Speedforce he can do just about anything he wants before anyone can react. (Flashes have at various times used speed to: travel time, out race death, heal, hypermetabolize poison, gain immense knowledge, create images, phase though solid matter, create a suit out of speed, form full color images in the air by waving his hands, strike with enough force to launch a target almost into orbit, become involved in a fight at such speeds that the planet was circled several times before superman could turn around, grant people speed enough to match his, take speed from bullets in flight etc etc)

Originally posted by tkitna
Also, from what i'm reading, people are speaking as if the Flash is the most powerful earth bound hero in comics. Somebody ought to at least tell DC this.

Fortunately for everybody his mind doesn't work that way and he'd likely end up losing to Sentry because of it.

Originally posted by tkitna
Bart isnt stealing anything from the Sentry. Last I checked, the speedforce didnt exist in Marvel.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Sentry moves so fast that he can be in one place avert a disaster and be back before you finish using the bathroom, these are not speed feats? If not please tell me what they are?
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4306/jlasfo2004dvp16cq8ce6.th.jpg http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5586/jlasfo2004dvp17io1av4.th.jpg http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6804/jlasfo2004dvp18aq7zo7.th.jpg http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2260/jlasfo2004dvp19uo8yo2.th.jpg http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7946/jlasfo2004dvp20yl5bn1.th.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5835/jlasfo2004dvp22io2yw5.th.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1816/jlasfo2004dvp23nl3gs3.th.jpg

It's one thing to be so fast as to beat someone out of the bathroom but to be in 2 spots at once, looking at yourself through a portal and even fooling Superman and Wonder Woman is in a whole different ballpark. I wouldn't give Sentry good odds against Wally much less Bart who was far smarter (on average) in using his abilities

Hold on a minute, I just read that the Speed Force does not work in neutral space if this is the case, Sentry will crush him.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Hold on a minute, I just read that the Speed Force does not work in neutral space if this is the case, Sentry will crush him.

Did you even look at the forum rules?

Janus77 say's "in a neutral universe there would be no such nonsense as "The Speedforce". Flash would simply be another Faster Than Light character.

Thanos would pawn him soooooo badly all DC would shudder. a simple pimp slap upside the head and Flash' head goes tumbling into outerspace.

Thanos' reaction times and perception >>>> Silver Surfer's FTL speeds >> Flash at his very best".

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Janus77 say's "in a neutral universe there would be no such nonsense as "The Speedforce". Flash would simply be another Faster Than Light character.

Thanos would pawn him soooooo badly all DC would shudder. a simple pimp slap upside the head and Flash' head goes tumbling into outerspace.

Thanos' reaction times and perception >>>> Silver Surfer's FTL speeds >> Flash at his very best".

Janus vs Long Established (and written down) Forum Rules


. . .



Yeah

Forum Rules state........... "No outside help
Unless specified otherwise, no contestant may call for outside assistance, even in scenario matches. For example, Captain America cannot call in the Avengers during a fight with Batman."


The Speed Force can be considered as "Outside Help".

Bart is the speed force. How would it be outside help. How would it be outside help for Wally as Flash also? That's where the power comes from. If that was considered outside help then Wally wouldn't be able to fight anybody unless they were from DC in the forum because he'd be a normal person.

The Speed Force is greter than Sentry, I concede to this, but Bart in his normal form is not the Speed Force... in neutral territory he, like Janus77 pointed out is just another character that can move at light speed or a little better. Which is in Sentry's range, or do you think that someone sent through a wormhole to parts unknown could get back to earth as fast as he did?

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
The Speed Force is greter than Sentry, I concede to this, but Bart in his normal form is not the Speed Force... in neutral territory he, like Janus77 pointed out is just another character that can move at light speed or a little better. Which is in Sentry's range, or do you think that someone sent through a wormhole to parts unknown could get back to earth as fast as he did?

1. Neither you or Janus know shit about the speed force. Bart and Wally are wayyyyyyyy beyond light speed. Sentry won't even touch them.

2. If the speed force is outside help, then I guess the dimension where Hulk gets his power from is outside help. And the Vishanti for Strange. Or the power cosmic for Surfer. or the energy in a GL ring.

Yeah.....screw that. KMC rules (which work)>>>>>>>Your shitty interpretation. dur

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
The Speed Force is greter than Sentry, I concede to this, but Bart in his normal form is not the Speed Force... in neutral territory he, like Janus77 pointed out is just another character that can move at light speed or a little better. Which is in Sentry's range, or do you think that someone sent through a wormhole to parts unknown could get back to earth as fast as he did? In a neutral world he'd have all his abilities. The ability to go faster than light, the ability to steal speed, the ability to amp speed, and so on and so forth. If it took place in the MU then yes the Speed Force would be null and void and Flash would loose his speed and abilities as the fight progressed like Wally was in JLA/Avengers but not in a neutral world.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If the speed force is outside help, then I guess the dimension where Hulk gets his power from is outside help.

Wait huh? Hulk gets his powers from another dimension??

Kento I'll listen to what you have to say because you bring very good points to the table without bashing me for my opinion. I'll go along with Bart winning because I know very little about the Flash because I have not read the comic for a while and had no idea that he'd become so powerful.

Trickster you should work on your debating skills because bullying someone into believing your story is getting old, fast.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Kento I'll listen to what you have to say because you bring very good points to the table without bashing me for my opinion. I'll go along with Bart winning because I know very little about the Flash because I have not read the comic for a while and had no idea that he'd become so powerful.

Trickster you should work on your debating skills because bullying someone into believing your story is getting old, fast.

You're new here, so I'll be nice. We have a rather nasty troll infestation on here at the moment. So some of the forum regulars like myself have little patience for stupid comments.

"in a neutral universe there would be no such nonsense as "The Speedforce". Flash would simply be another Faster Than Light character.

Thanos would pawn him soooooo badly all DC would shudder. a simple pimp slap upside the head and Flash' head goes tumbling into outerspace.

Thanos' reaction times and perception >>>> Silver Surfer's FTL speeds >> Flash at his very best".

Stuff like this? This will not get you respect, and indeed, this opinion will get you rediculed. For one thing: Flash is faster than Surfer. 2, Thanos would have a harder time hitting Flash than he would Surfer. And Wally stole the speed from an entire planet, so Sentry is no biggie. And even if you say he is, he's stopped Superman.

Superman>>>Sentry.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You're new here, so I'll be nice. We have a rather nasty troll infestation on here at the moment. So some of the forum regulars like myself have little patience for stupid comments.

"in a neutral universe there would be no such nonsense as "The Speedforce". Flash would simply be another Faster Than Light character.

Thanos would pawn him soooooo badly all DC would shudder. a simple pimp slap upside the head and Flash' head goes tumbling into outerspace.

Thanos' reaction times and perception >>>> Silver Surfer's FTL speeds >> Flash at his very best".

Stuff like this? This will not get you respect, and indeed, this opinion will get you rediculed. For one thing: Flash is faster than Surfer. 2, Thanos would have a harder time hitting Flash than he would Surfer. And Wally stole the speed from an entire planet, so Sentry is no biggie. And even if you say he is, he's stopped Superman.

Superman>>>Sentry.
Superman>one million exploding suns let's me laught dude.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
The Speed Force is greter than Sentry, I concede to this, but Bart in his normal form is not the Speed Force...

When he was the Flash he was the SpeedForce, it was actually part of him. Thats why he became the freaking Flash.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
in neutral territory he, like Janus77 pointed out is just another character that can move at light speed or a little better.

The Flash can move much faster than light and most of his abilities just use that speed to incredible effect.

Originally posted by Kento
Wait huh? Hulk gets his powers from another dimension??

Yup. Hulk has some sort of access to another dimension that provides him with energy and mass for transformation.

isn't the "Speedforce" an essential dimension/FORCE within the DC universe?

whereas merely pulling in energies (however vague) from another universe do not fundamentally alter the realities within which the opponent works.

Hulk pulls in infinite energies from someother universe, but that doesn't in anyway shape or form inhibit his opponent, it doesn't place them in some new and biased territory where their previously autonomous powers are now subject to the whims of a FORCE that exists purely for the benefit of their opponent...

if that's acceptable, I don't see how Flash could possibly lose to say Galactus or even Eternity, as he could take all "the momentum out of them" - ie stop every electron from whizzing around every nucleus.

give me a plausible reason why, in a +neutral+ universe, the laws that govern that posited universe must be in accordance with that of only ONE party in a match?

the Speedforce is a special case, imo, it cannot exist but at the clear and severe detriment of any and all opponents. and as such any 'versus' match with Flash becomes simply spite.


either give Flash his autonomous abilities, sans speed/momentum sucking, or take him out of these setups.

Originally posted by janus77
isn't the "Speedforce" an essential dimension/FORCE within the DC universe?

whereas merely pulling in energies (however vague) from another universe do not fundamentally alter the realities within which the opponent works. In addition as the Speed Force was internalized within Bart it wouldn't leave him in another universe.

Hulk pulls in infinite energies from someother universe, but that doesn't in anyway shape or form inhibit his opponent, it doesn't place them in some new and biased territory where their previously autonomous powers are now subject to the whims of a FORCE that exists purely for the benefit of their opponent...

if that's acceptable, I don't see how Flash could possibly lose to say Galactus or even Eternity, as he could take all "the momentum out of them" - ie stop every electron from whizzing around every nucleus.

give me a plausible reason why, in a +neutral+ universe, the laws that govern that posited universe must be in accordance with that of only ONE party in a match?

the Speedforce is a special case, imo, it cannot exist but at the clear and severe detriment of any and all opponents. and as such any 'versus' match with Flash becomes simply spite.


either give Flash his autonomous abilities, sans speed/momentum sucking, or take him out of these setups. However in this forum both characters get full use of their abilities...regardless of the power source. No such thing as a neutral universe.

That was never stipulated in this thread. I mean if the Speed Force exists in this fight who is to say that Sentry will be unable to tap it's potential, Janus has a very good point.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
That was never stipulated in this thread. I mean if the Speed Force exists in this fight who is to say that Sentry will be unable to tap it's potential, Janus has a very good point.

Oh for ****'s sake man.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Oh for ****'s sake man.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels
Full capacity of Sentry has the power of a million exploding Suns...he's even said that he had the power and "released" it on Absorbing Man.

Originally posted by Priest
Full capacity of Sentry has the power of a million exploding Suns...he's even said that he had the power and "released" it on Absorbing Man.

And he lacks proof to back it up.

Doesn't change anything.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
However in this forum both characters get full use of their abilities...regardless of the power source. No such thing as a neutral universe.
you don't get it. it's not about "the full use of their abilities" it's about recomposing every NON-DC character in order to make them reliant on a universal force exclusive to and specifically the domain of DC and The Flash.

the Speedforce doesn't begin and end at The Flash, it is also the actual universe within which he operates, that's why the momentum sucking etc etc works at all.

imagine if the Living Tribunal went up against Spectre and just blinked him out of existence? he can't his power is contingent upon his universe's makeup and the same for the Spectre.

instead we adjust their powers and the extent of their influence in the hypothetical 'versusverse' so that a 'realistic' conflict might take place.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Oh for ****'s sake man.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels
This one would have been better...

Concerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun.

Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.

Originally posted by darthgoober
This one would have been better...

Concerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun.

Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.

Thats the one I was looking for. Couldn't find it though (blinded by rage as I was)

fine, Flash versus Eternity... my money's on Flash!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And he lacks proof to back it up.

Doesn't change anything.
so ur trying to say that we only are supposed to use feats that are depicted by narration not character's word of mouth?

Originally posted by janus77
fine, Flash versus Eternity... my money's on Flash!

Then you'd be wrong. Eternity can probably manipluate equivalent energies. Or barring that unmake him via time travel.

Originally posted by Priest
so ur trying to say that we only are supposed to use feats that are depicted by narration not character's word of mouth?

Well when what's said is obvious hyperbole . . . yeah I'd rather use narration.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then you'd be wrong. Eternity can probably manipluate equivalent energies. Or barring that unmake him via time travel.
probably is not good enough, Flash does it time and again on panel. according to posters here, HE IS THE SPEEDFORCE.

Eternity wouldn't be able to even register the onset of hostilities as within the first trillionth of a second, Flash would have stolen ALL momentum.


also, sans momentum, no conscious thought no sentience.

Originally posted by janus77
probably is not good enough, Flash does it time and again on panel. according to posters here, HE IS THE SPEEDFORCE.

Eternity wouldn't be able to even register the onset of hostilities as within the first trillionth of a second, Flash would have stolen ALL momentum.

also, sans momentum, no conscious thought no sentience.

No BartAllen was the Speedforce. Other Flashes tap into it as a powersource.

Eternity is Time itself existing as a concept he should be capable of thinking far far faster than even Flash at his best.

Originally posted by janus77
probably is not good enough, Flash does it time and again on panel. according to posters here, HE IS THE SPEEDFORCE.

Eternity wouldn't be able to even register the onset of hostilities as within the first trillionth of a second, Flash would have stolen ALL momentum.


also, sans momentum, no conscious thought no sentience.
Isn't the Speedforce technically PART of the universe? And since Eternity IS the universe under the new forum rules shouldn't the Speedforce would simply be a part of Eternity that he could access like any other part?

but don't forget, Speedforce is a force of the universe - the shared universe, thus Speed/momentum stealing becomes an option for Flash. also being essentially in charge of momentum you trump 'time', as time can only unfold in the universe as a result of energy - the big bang - which is momentum, in essence.


it just throws up tons of stupid matches.
Flash versus the following (all together):
Galactus, Cyttorak, Dr Strange, Ego, Rune King Thor, Odin ... you get the picture?

Speedforce is essentially a remoulding of the opposing (non-DC) character, not something as innocuous as an extra-source of energy (ala power cosmic/oan energy)... it places fundamental control over the opposition in the hands of Flash.

Originally posted by janus77
but don't forget, Speedforce is a force of the universe - the shared universe, thus Speed/momentum stealing becomes an option for Flash. also being essentially in charge of momentum you trump 'time', as time can only unfold in the universe as a result of energy - the big bang - which is momentum, in essence.


it just throws up tons of stupid matches.
Flash versus the following (all together):
Galactus, Cyttorak, Dr Strange, Ego, Rune King Thor, Odin ... you get the picture?

Speedforce is essentially a remoulding of the opposing (non-DC) character, not something as innocuous as an extra-source of energy (ala power cosmic/oan energy)... it places fundamental control over the opposition in the hands of Flash.

That why characters have to fight within the limits of their personality.

I have never seen any Flash start a fight with anything but superspeed or even consider speedstealing until extremely hard pressed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Isn't the Speedforce technically PART of the universe? And since Eternity IS the universe under the new forum rules shouldn't the Speedforce would simply be a part of Eternity that he could access like any other part?
a unique to DC conception, part of the DC universe. Eternity has no access to this force, as Eternity's omniverse does not partake of it.

you can speculate, but Flash has on-panel control, Eternity is just "reasonable to assume" ... but as I show above, it can - and does - get an awful lot worse.


I believe it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Speedforce does, over and above empowering Flash with speed and durability...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That why characters have to fight within the limits of their personality.

I have never seen any Flash start a fight with anything but superspeed or even consider speedstealing until extremely hard pressed.
but then you have "blood lusted" options... and KMC specifically calls for fighting to the utmost of a character's ability, rather than character.

and obviously, most people argue power-sets, rather than persona.

Originally posted by janus77
a unique to DC conception, part of the DC universe. Eternity has no access to this force, as Eternity's omniverse does not partake of it.

you can speculate, but Flash has on-panel control, Eternity is just "reasonable to assume" ... but as I show above, it can - and does - get an awful lot worse.


I believe it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Speedforce does, over and above empowering Flash with speed and durability...
Even if we went under the assumption that he DIDN'T have access to it, he would still have access to the Power Primordial which can be used the same way the Speedforce is(it's what powers the Runner after all). And as SC already pointed out, Eternity is the embodiment of time so there's no way for Flash to get the jump on him.

Originally posted by janus77
but then you have "blood lusted" options... and KMC specifically calls for fighting to the utmost of a character's ability, rather than character.

and obviously, most people argue power-sets, rather than persona.
Wrong...

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels .

You can't spell "janus" without "anus."

even if Eternity is debatable, what about those below him - again, Galactus, Odin .... ? Eternity also exists within space, time is a function of the big bang, so I'd see it as being equally reasonable to assume that the stealing of 'momentum' would stop time - indeed, Flash does traverse time via the speedforce!


any non-abstract will be recreated to depend upon Speedforce as the mechanism for the way they exist... that their momentum, is a part of a universal force which is the domain of The Flash.

Originally posted by batdude123
You can't spell "janus" without "anus."
you could :P

cf my post in your thread about comparative intelligence :P

Originally posted by janus77
even if Eternity is debatable, what about those below him - again, Galactus, Odin .... ? Eternity also exists within space, time is a function of the big bang, so I'd see it as being equally reasonable to assume that the stealing of 'momentum' would stop time - indeed, Flash does traverse time via the speedforce!

any non-abstract will be recreated to depend upon Speedforce as the mechanism for the way they exist... that their momentum, is a part of a universal force which is the domain of The Flash.

So you want us to believe that 1) Wally/Bart understands this 2) Wally/Bart could figure out how to do 3) It applies even though nothing like it has been shown, in fact completely taking the speed from a target has been shown not to be lethal.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So you want us to believe that 1) Wally/Bart understands this 2) Wally/Bart could figure out how to do 3) It applies even though nothing like it has been shown, in fact completely taking the speed from a target has been shown not to be lethal.
I'm not arguing that it's lethal in and of itself. nor am I arguing persona/intellect. I'm refering to the powerset and the unwise policy of saying "Speedforce" must exist within a 'neutral' universe.

we can see that this would require a reconfiguration of the non-DC opponent, in order to apply the new laws - the DC laws - governing their physics.

Originally posted by janus77
I'm not arguing that it's lethal in and of itself. nor am I arguing persona/intellect. I'm refering to the powerset and the unwise policy of saying "Speedforce" must exist within a 'neutral' universe.

The powerset is immense. But it actually is his powers.

What's the point of having Flash fight san Speedforce? He'd just be a normal person with no powers and no real combat training.

Originally posted by janus77
we can see that this would require a reconfiguration of the non-DC opponent, in order to apply the new laws - the DC laws - governing their physics.

No he would simply be subject to Flash's powers. Just as Flash would be subject to all of his opponents.

not really, it's both his powerset and the makeup of the universe.

Flash is not subject to anyone's powers, if the Speedforce is a fundamental force of the shared universe, as he can stop all energies from building up - momentum sucking.

for instance, Galactus works on the power cosmic, which is just universal energies from stars and such, but energy is momentum, and thus Flash can prevent Galactus from having any power whatsoever.

sentry wins. no contest.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Forum Rules state........... "No outside help
Unless specified otherwise, no contestant may call for outside assistance, even in scenario matches. For example, Captain America cannot call in the Avengers during a fight with Batman."


The Speed Force can be considered as "Outside Help". A characters powers are not "outside help".
That rule refers to calling in other characters. It even gives a specific instance.

You see that was my mistake, I always thought that all of the people that called themselves the Flash tapped into the speed force, I never knew that they were the speed force.

Originally posted by janus77
not really, it's both his powerset and the makeup of the universe.

Flash is not subject to anyone's powers, if the Speedforce is a fundamental force of the shared universe, as he can stop all energies from building up - momentum sucking.

for instance, Galactus works on the power cosmic, which is just universal energies from stars and such, but energy is momentum, and thus Flash can prevent Galactus from having any power whatsoever.

Are you even listening to yourself at this point? You're throwing a hissy-fit because you think Flash is some kind of god-like being that can't beaten even by abstracts. When in reality, you just don't get his powers and how they work.

Flash has limits, he can be beaten. But Sentry doesn't have the means to do it. Galactus however, would easily deal with Flash.

Originally posted by janus77
for instance, Galactus works on the power cosmic, which is just universal energies from stars and such, but energy is momentum, and thus Flash can prevent Galactus from having any power whatsoever.
You're just joking around right?
Originally posted by quanchi112
sentry wins. no contest.
You're just joking around right?
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
The Speed Force can be considered as "Outside Help".
No, it can't.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
But Sentry doesn't have the means to do it. Galactus however, would easily deal with Flash.
But Sentry fought Galactus to a standstill....

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
You see that was my mistake, I always thought that all of the people that called themselves the Flash tapped into the speed force, I never knew that they were the speed force. All the other Flashes tapped into it but Bart from what I gathered was the Speed Force when he became the Flash.