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v.s.

http://www.bleachportal.net/fanart/artwork/1161215821_Aizen%202.jpg

Illusion v.s. Illusion

Who wins?

Aizen wins this in a curbstomp. His illusion is stronger, his attacks are stronger, and his speed makes Itachi look like he was standing still.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Aizen is faster, more skilled, and his true abilities are still not realized. He stopped Ichigo's Bankai with a f*ckin finger!

Originally posted by Akuki


I tend to laugh at random things, but I agree with you 100%. I really wanna see Aizen tap into his full powers soon.

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
I tend to laugh at random things, but I agree with you 100%. I really wanna see Aizen tap into his full powers soon.
I know, I'm really getting impatient for them to show Aizen fighting again, once they do I'm definitely making a respect thread.

This doesn't seem so hard. The two men meet from a distance they lock eyes and... Aizen is boned because he has no idea what a sharingan is.

Originally posted by Warmonger
This doesn't seem so hard. The two men meet from a distance they lock eyes and... Aizen is boned because he has no idea what a sharingan is.

More like Aizen kills Itachi before he even has a chance to use any techniques

More like Goku destroys the universe with the spirit bomb 313

More like, get on topic Blaxican.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
More like Aizen kills Itachi before he even has a chance to use any techniques

Two problems with that theory.

1. The whatever sharingan requires nothing more than for their eyes to meet. Aizen has no idea whats coming. Once in his Sharingan Aizen is pretty much a dead man or close enough to it. He has no reason to avert his gaze or anything like that.

Also Itachi doesn't need to do any hand signals to use other Genjuitsus he only needs to point a finger at Aizen. Hell his shadow clones can cast genjuitsus for him.

2. This seems to be based on the belief that Aizen is faster than Itachi. Or can move faster than Itachi can react and this is pretty much not true. Saskue was able to percive someone moving at the speed of light with just one level of his sharingan as his sharingan moved up he was able to perceive faster opponents. While I don't belive that everyone in the NAruto universe is flying around a t the speed of light they sill move extremely fast and there is no reason to belive that Bleach characters are faster. Unless you have some sort of objective measure of their realaitves speeds so that we cna say X is definetly faster thant Y. Cause right now there is no way to know for sure that Aizen is any faster than Itachi.


Also as for destrucitve power Akatsuki members are turning miles and miles of ground into charred craters in single attacks and several could level a city if they tried hard enough. Hell Kisame who is weaker than Itachi turned a Desert into a lake. So don't try to tell me that Bleach characters are more powerful.
Another thing is that ITachi is probably mostly blind and Aizen's illusions might not even work since he can't see it. Evne if they did Naruto characters have the ability to dispel illusions with Techniques as aoopposed to Bleach characters that don't seem to have any effective ways of actually dealing with them.

So it pretty much goes like I said. The two look ata each other and Aizen is done unless he has some sort of knowledge about the Sharingan but the OP didn't state that.

this is a LITTLE hard to call. neither characters have truly shown their strength. however from the looks of it. naruto characters have currently far surpassed the power levels of bleach characters.

itachi>>>urochimaru>>>>>>>diedara who created a pure blasts wider than 20 kilometres and higher than 100 kilometres with his ultimate jutsu. theyr starting to make nuke level attacks look like childsplay.

another thing about the speed. naruto characters with body flicker have instantaneously moved from country to country plus haku's lightspeed etc. their is ZERO evidence to support that bleach speed>naruto speed.

aizen is at a disatvantage because he creates hallucinations which can be countered by not having one of the senses. plus the shaaringan is a sure bet illusion KILLER. not to mention the nuymerous powers it has far surpass sousake's shikai. tsukiyomi iis a far stronger illusion than sousake's shikai. not to mention amaterasu{and his true skill has not yet been revealed} will kill him. aizen also can not cast off itachi's genjutsu.

im still waiting on aizen's bankai and arrancnar/hollow powers to come through. but currently, aizen loses big time.

Aizen, easily.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
this is a LITTLE hard to call. neither characters have truly shown their strength. however from the looks of it. naruto characters have currently far surpassed the power levels of bleach characters.

itachi>>>urochimaru>>>>>>>diedara who created a pure blasts wider than 20 kilometres and higher than 100 kilometres with his ultimate jutsu. theyr starting to make nuke level attacks look like childsplay.

another thing about the speed. naruto characters with body flicker have instantaneously moved from country to country plus haku's lightspeed etc. their is ZERO evidence to support that bleach speed>naruto speed.

aizen is at a disatvantage because he creates hallucinations which can be countered by not having one of the senses. plus the shaaringan is a sure bet illusion KILLER. not to mention the nuymerous powers it has far surpass sousake's shikai. tsukiyomi iis a far stronger illusion than sousake's shikai. not to mention amaterasu{and his true skill has not yet been revealed} will kill him. aizen also can not cast off itachi's genjutsu.

im still waiting on aizen's bankai and arrancnar/hollow powers to come through. but currently, aizen loses big time. 1. Your logic is flawed my friend, just because Deidara can make a blast that large does not make that feat(which also killed Deidara I might add) Itachi's.

2. Instantly moved from country to country? Bullshit. Haku's lightspeed? Are you saying that Sasuke's fireballs are lightspeed as well, because Sasuke caught him with one, and you could see Naruto moving when Haku was, and Naruto can't even move faster than sight.

3. Aizen's illusions cannot be countered by Sharingan cause they use no chakra.

Also don't itachi's illusions attack an opponent's fear, and Aizen is referred to numerous times as being without fear.

This is a joke right? Aizen is so above the Narutoverse it's not funny. With his Shikai alone, he can take on every ninja from Naruto.

When did they state Haku had lightspeed?

Originally posted by Akuki
When did they state Haku had lightspeed? Never, it's just a bullshit assumption.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Your logic is flawed my friend, just because Deidara can make a blast that large does not make that feat(which also killed Deidara I might add) Itachi's.

2. Instantly moved from country to country? Bullshit. Haku's lightspeed? Are you saying that Sasuke's fireballs are lightspeed as well, because Sasuke caught him with one, and you could see Naruto moving when Haku was, and Naruto can't even move faster than sight.

3. Aizen's illusions cannot be countered by Sharingan cause they use no chakra.

2. As for the instantly from country to country thing I am not aware of that. BUt as far as haku's speed. They said that in the anime I think the english dub but Ii m not sure. While I don't belive its true I do belive he was moving at incredible speeds. The point is that the speeds in Bleach are nothign special at all.

3. We don't really know how chakra and spirit energy are going to mix if the two fight fora l we know none of their illusions will work and they will have to hand to hand it.

Naruto people are NOT light speed. That is complete bullshit wankery.

Haku was NOT moving at light speed. Nowhere in the dub (which sucks to begin with) ever states that. Nowhere in the Jpn anime, did it say that. Nowhere in the original manga, did it say that. Nowhere in the source material says that Naruto characters can move from country to country.

Aizen blitzes Itachi, cuts his head off and spits down his throat before Itachi can even begin channeling chakra into his Mangekyou Sharingan.

Originally posted by Haruhi
Naruto people are NOT light speed. That is complete bullshit wankery.

Haku was NOT moving at light speed. Nowhere in the dub (which sucks to begin with) ever states that. Nowhere in the Jpn anime, did it say that. Nowhere in the original manga, did it say that. Nowhere in the source material says that Naruto characters can move from country to country.

Aizen blitzes Itachi, cuts his head off and spits down his throat before Itachi can even begin channeling chakra into his Mangekyou Sharingan.

As far the lightspeed thing goes I'm not stickign to that cause I've been looking over old episodes and can't find it so it probaly isnt' true.

As for Aizen speed blitcing ITachi. Now way no how. Or unless they show him with speed like that which they haven't, I don't know why people assume that he can do that.

Originally posted by Warmonger
As far the lightspeed thing goes I'm not stickign to that cause I've been looking over old episodes and can't find it so it probaly isnt' true.

As for Aizen speed blitcing ITachi. Now way no how. Or unless they show him with speed like that which they haven't, I don't know why people assume that he can do that.
We believe he can blitz him, because even the lower bleach characters have extremely enhanced speed. Byakuya was able to move fast enough to move over 100 yards, stab ichigo twice in the chest and then move away with speed enough that Renji had trouble seeing the sword being taken out, and Byakuya was at 10% power since he was in the human world. Ichigo in bankai form is far faster than Byakuya in top form, and Aizen has shown himself to be faster than that.

Originally posted by Haruhi
Naruto people are NOT light speed. That is complete bullshit wankery.

Haku was NOT moving at light speed. Nowhere in the dub (which sucks to begin with) ever states that. Nowhere in the Jpn anime, did it say that. Nowhere in the original manga, did it say that. Nowhere in the source material says that Naruto characters can move from country to country.

Aizen blitzes Itachi, cuts his head off and spits down his throat before Itachi can even begin channeling chakra into his Mangekyou Sharingan. Actually I have heard that he was moving at lightspeed in the English dub but not the manga or japanese version.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Actually I have heard that he was moving at lightspeed in the English dub but not the manga or japanese version.
From looking at the manga, it doesn't indicate he's going anywhere near that level of speed, that's got to be the slowest instance of so called lightspeed I've ever heard of.

Originally posted by Akuki
What episode was that, and where in the manga was it? I haven't seen the english dub in a while. ever since I got into the the japanese version, I never watch the english ones anymore but that I do remember. I think its Haku that says it.

Originally posted by Akuki
We believe he can blitz him, because even the lower bleach characters have extremely enhanced speed. Byakuya was able to move fast enough to move over 100 yards, stab ichigo twice in the chest and then move away with speed enough that Renji had trouble seeing the sword being taken out, and Byakuya was at 10% power since he was in the human world. Ichigo in bankai form is far faster than Byakuya in top form, and Aizen has shown himself to be faster than that.

But the same is true in reverse. Evne low level Naruto characters have highly enhanced speeds. Look at the fisrt Naruto episode when the Hokage tells them tot disperse all the village ninja dash off at speeds that are superhuman. The only time we see high speeds in Bleach is when it is a Captian or higher.

Think about it when was the first speed feat in Bleach? It wasn't until Byakuya showed up. Average Naruto ninjas have speed feats. Guys like Rock Lee are even faster than that. So Naruto characters are pretty uch all faster form the word go. What speed feats does Kenpachi have? Renji or evne other high level Bleach characters? Where are their speed feats. How can you sayt hat the basic Shinigami has extermely enhanced speeds when before Ichigo evne released his powers he was able to perceive Rukia just fine?

Everyone in Naurto is fast they no longer make a huge deal about it. The Flash step is just basic movement to NAruto characters.

With that a s a base lets look at the evidence as to why Aizen can't speed blitz ITachi. We have already established that all shinobi move extemely fast. Next we see that Rock lee is even faster than that. Then Sasuke was able to copy and use Rock's speed to sue his chidori. When Sasuke tired to attack ITachi with his new speed what happend? Itachi casuly deflected it without even moving. Thats just like when Ichigo used his Bankai onAizen and it was stopped by a finger. Just when he though he was getting fast he learend that he hadn't evne attianed real speed.

Itachi is superfast in a world filled with superfast people. Azien is superfast in world filed with mostly slow people. Evne though I belive Itachi is faster than Aizen I'll give Aizen the benifit of the doubt and simply call it a draw just swa the mathc cna be interesting. But there is nothing, no evidence or anything like it to say tha Aizen is faster than Itachi.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Your logic is flawed my friend, just because Deidara can make a blast that large does not make that feat(which also killed Deidara I might add) Itachi's.

2. Instantly moved from country to country? Bullshit. Haku's lightspeed? Are you saying that Sasuke's fireballs are lightspeed as well, because Sasuke caught him with one, and you could see Naruto moving when Haku was, and Naruto can't even move faster than sight.

3. Aizen's illusions cannot be countered by Sharingan cause they use no chakra.

its not itachi's feat. but it can easily be used to compare power levels. itachi>diedara. his jutsu are too. the fact that fish dude was SURPRISED at the fact that sasuke had problem with the blast tells us that it is in no way a supreme jutsu.

the two zombie brothers instantly moved out of the country after killing asuma. and haku is explained to be lightspeed. its the speed om an IMAGE appearing in the mirror. he moves from IMAGE TO IMAGE. as a reflection in his ice prison. NOT that i dont believe its PIS, because it is. but that is the OFFICIAL truth. its just there to counter any high end showings of aizen/byakuya when people try to specifically over power characters and not look at low end showings.

shaaringan doesnt just counter genjutsu. it can see through rocks/sleping gas/physical illusions etc. it can even see inside the soul and enter the spirit/conciousness. shaaringan{specially mangekyo} is SUCH a ridiculous level of telepathy/illusion that it isnt even funny. aizen's illusions have ZERO chance against it.

it would take an entire page to state the shaaringan associated powers shown. chakra would acually stand a better chance against it than aizen's illusions.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Your logic is flawed my friend, just because Deidara can make a blast that large does not make that feat(which also killed Deidara I might add) Itachi's.

2. Instantly moved from country to country? Bullshit. Haku's lightspeed? Are you saying that Sasuke's fireballs are lightspeed as well, because Sasuke caught him with one, and you could see Naruto moving when Haku was, and Naruto can't even move faster than sight.

3. Aizen's illusions cannot be countered by Sharingan cause they use no chakra.

its not itachi's feat. but it can easily be used to compare power le

Originally posted by Warmonger
But the same is true in reverse. Evne low level Naruto characters have highly enhanced speeds. Look at the fisrt Naruto episode when the Hokage tells them tot disperse all the village ninja dash off at speeds that are superhuman. The only time we see high speeds in Bleach is when it is a Captian or higher.

Think about it when was the first speed feat in Bleach? It wasn't until Byakuya showed up. Average Naruto ninjas have speed feats. Guys like Rock Lee are even faster than that. So Naruto characters are pretty uch all faster form the word go. What speed feats does Kenpachi have? Renji or evne other high level Bleach characters? Where are their speed feats. How can you sayt hat the basic Shinigami has extermely enhanced speeds when before Ichigo evne released his powers he was able to perceive Rukia just fine?

Everyone in Naurto is fast they no longer make a huge deal about it. The Flash step is just basic movement to NAruto characters.

With that a s a base lets look at the evidence as to why Aizen can't speed blitz ITachi. We have already established that all shinobi move extemely fast. Next we see that Rock lee is even faster than that. Then Sasuke was able to copy and use Rock's speed to sue his chidori. When Sasuke tired to attack ITachi with his new speed what happend? Itachi casuly deflected it without even moving. Thats just like when Ichigo used his Bankai onAizen and it was stopped by a finger. Just when he though he was getting fast he learend that he hadn't evne attianed real speed.

Itachi is superfast in a world filled with superfast people. Azien is superfast in world filed with mostly slow people. Evne though I belive Itachi is faster than Aizen I'll give Aizen the benifit of the doubt and simply call it a draw just swa the mathc cna be interesting. But there is nothing, no evidence or anything like it to say tha Aizen is faster than Itachi.

Average ninja in Naruto had speed feats? When? Haku moving at "light speed" is not credible because too much contradicts that statement. Haku was definitely one of the faster characters, even by Naruto standards. His technique allowed him to trap his opponents w/in the ice and from then on, move from mirror to mirror with speed alone and attacking. He's NOT light speed. That's narrative hyperbole at best.

Naruto people are fast, true. But, they still don't compare to Bleach. Characters from Bleach are able to cover miles at a time in a moment with Shyunpo. And Shyunpo is a basic skill for captains. And Aizen being one of the stronger one should give you an idea of how fast he really is. Especially since he manhandled a Bankai Ichigo who was freaking fast himself. Have you even see Bleach to actually be saying that? It doesn't seem like that at all.

Itachi defending Chidori isn't anything worth bragging about. Sasuke wasn't moving very fast anyways, during that little skirmish. He was just running at regular speed when attacking Itachi.

Seriously, Shyunpo allows Bleachers to move miles at a time in an instant. Shyunpo is a low level technique most people use. And guess what, Aizen is especially fast, even among that standard.

Aizen >>>>> Itachi by a long shot.

Sharingan ain't all that great, either. If the Tsukiyomi was as great as you all are making it out to be, why is it that Kakashi was able to actually survive it? His own Sharingan hardly did anything, because the moment his eyes glanced at Itachi, he was immediately losing... but he still came out sane.

Originally posted by Haruhi
Average ninja in Naruto had speed feats? When? Haku moving at "light speed" is not credible because too much contradicts that statement. Haku was definitely one of the faster characters, even by Naruto standards. His technique allowed him to trap his opponents w/in the ice and from then on, move from mirror to mirror with speed alone and attacking. He's NOT light speed. That's narrative hyperbole at best.

Naruto people are fast, true. But, they still don't compare to Bleach. Characters from Bleach are able to cover miles at a time in a moment with Shyunpo. And Shyunpo is a basic skill for captains. And Aizen being one of the stronger one should give you an idea of how fast he really is. Especially since he manhandled a Bankai Ichigo who was freaking fast himself. Have you even see Bleach to actually be saying that? It doesn't seem like that at all.

Itachi defending Chidori isn't anything worth bragging about. Sasuke wasn't moving very fast anyways, during that little skirmish. He was just running at regular speed when attacking Itachi.

Seriously, Shyunpo allows Bleachers to move miles at a time in an instant. Shyunpo is a low level technique most people use. And guess what, Aizen is especially fast, even among that standard.

Aizen >>>>> Itachi by a long shot.

Sharingan ain't all that great, either. If the Tsukiyomi was as great as you all are making it out to be, why is it that Kakashi was able to actually survive it? His own Sharingan hardly did anything, because the moment his eyes glanced at Itachi, he was immediately losing... but he still came out sane.

I just pointed out when. From the very first episode the hokage disperse his ninja to chase down Naruto they all flew off in a flash of speed with a Blur. When have low rank Shingami ever moved that fast?

Even when they were chasing Naruto they were moving around the fcity in blurs and Naruto at that time was one of the worst ninjas in Konaha.

I said form the beignig I don't believe that he was moving at light speed but he was moving very fast. Also Haku's speed is not fast by Naruot standards anymore. After a while Sasuke was able to see him moving and was even able to singe his clothes with a fireball. Meaning that at that level Sasuke was almost able to keep up.

Then when he met Rock Lee Rock was able to completly speed blitz him and he couldn't see it or keep up. Why? Because Rock Lee is even faster than Haku was. And that was with his Training weights still on. His speed went up exponentially when he took them off Putting him leagues above Haku. Sasuke who was able to duplicate Rocks speed was still nothign compared to Itachi. Neither was Kakashi, Guy, Asuma or that woman, who are all Jounin.

Miles at a time you say? So how big is soul society. 10 miles 20 miles hell lets say for the F of it that its 100 miles wide. IT took the fast Flash step user 200 Flash steps to get outside the city. If that city is 100 miles wide that means the best flash step user (can't remeber that cat chicks name) only covers half a mile with a flash step. Thats still far faster than Byakuya.

But we both know that that city isn't 100 miles across. Its about 20 miles tops. So she only couvers about 1/10 or 1/20 (my math isn't too exact at this point) either way its nowhere NOWHERE near miles.

Of course he was moving fast thats why it makes that chirping sound. Check Episode 84.

If Aizen's power is so great why did that dog captain survive his attack? Why did he run when the rest of the Cpatians showed up?

Itachi's eye technique isn't deadly just because it can kill you. IT is deadly because after you get hit with it you are nearly comatose, and it doesn't take much at all to finish you off.

Also lets be honest here we haven't seen enough of Aizen to even kow the full extent of his powers, nor Itachi for that matter. But based on whats already been shown to me ITachi>Aizen.

Originally posted by Warmonger
But the same is true in reverse. Evne low level Naruto characters have highly enhanced speeds. Look at the fisrt Naruto episode when the Hokage tells them tot disperse all the village ninja dash off at speeds that are superhuman. The only time we see high speeds in Bleach is when it is a Captian or higher.

Think about it when was the first speed feat in Bleach? It wasn't until Byakuya showed up. Average Naruto ninjas have speed feats. Guys like Rock Lee are even faster than that. So Naruto characters are pretty uch all faster form the word go. What speed feats does Kenpachi have? Renji or evne other high level Bleach characters? Where are their speed feats. How can you sayt hat the basic Shinigami has extermely enhanced speeds when before Ichigo evne released his powers he was able to perceive Rukia just fine?

Everyone in Naurto is fast they no longer make a huge deal about it. The Flash step is just basic movement to NAruto characters.

With that a s a base lets look at the evidence as to why Aizen can't speed blitz ITachi. We have already established that all shinobi move extemely fast. Next we see that Rock lee is even faster than that. Then Sasuke was able to copy and use Rock's speed to sue his chidori. When Sasuke tired to attack ITachi with his new speed what happend? Itachi casuly deflected it without even moving. Thats just like when Ichigo used his Bankai onAizen and it was stopped by a finger. Just when he though he was getting fast he learend that he hadn't evne attianed real speed.

Itachi is superfast in a world filled with superfast people. Azien is superfast in world filed with mostly slow people. Evne though I belive Itachi is faster than Aizen I'll give Aizen the benifit of the doubt and simply call it a draw just swa the mathc cna be interesting. But there is nothing, no evidence or anything like it to say tha Aizen is faster than Itachi.
Their ability to do the shimmer and disappear cannot really be considered a speed feat, after all that's a classic thing seen in nearly all anime's even many of the fighers in Rurouni Kenshin had that ability. The difference in speed can be seen simply from the fact that thrown weapons still have some sort of effect and can hit in Naruto, how fast can those possibly be going, maybe 100 mph tops? In Bleach in Ichigo's bankai form he is smacking down 1000's of projectiles moving a bullet speeds, something that no naruto character comes close to doing.

Aizen's attack didn't kill the Captain because he was messing around. In bleach if you leave off the enchantment part of the spell, the spell becomes about 3 or 4 times more difficult to cast. Aizen was casting on of the most powerful spells that no other shinigami has approached without the enchantment just to test himself, and as a result of that the spell was only 1/3 it's normal power. Anyways Aizen left soul society because he chose to, not because he was defeated. Also what could Itachi do to hurt Aizen, Aizen either uses his reiatsu to pin Itachi to the ground and cut his head off, and Aizen has been shown to block extremely powerful blades and attacks with his bare hands.

Simmering and vanishing is not a speed feat. If you want speed, we need examples of characters traversing Distances in certain Times. Just because: Speed Lines, Blurs, After Images, and Vanishing is associated with speed in Anime, doesn't mean that every instance of these things happen equate to moving at super speed. That's a "inappropriate generalisation".

Originally posted by leonheartmm
its not itachi's feat. but it can easily be used to compare power levels. itachi>diedara. his jutsu are too. the fact that fish dude was SURPRISED at the fact that sasuke had problem with the blast tells us that it is in no way a supreme jutsu.

the two zombie brothers instantly moved out of the country after killing asuma. and haku is explained to be lightspeed. its the speed om an IMAGE appearing in the mirror. he moves from IMAGE TO IMAGE. as a reflection in his ice prison. NOT that i dont believe its PIS, because it is. but that is the OFFICIAL truth. its just there to counter any high end showings of aizen/byakuya when people try to specifically over power characters and not look at low end showings.

shaaringan doesnt just counter genjutsu. it can see through rocks/sleping gas/physical illusions etc. it can even see inside the soul and enter the spirit/conciousness. shaaringan{specially mangekyo} is SUCH a ridiculous level of telepathy/illusion that it isnt even funny. aizen's illusions have ZERO chance against it.

it would take an entire page to state the shaaringan associated powers shown. chakra would acually stand a better chance against it than aizen's illusions. 1. No, that's A>B>C logic, Deidara can do that because he's a bomb specialist, Itachi is stronger cause all he needs to do is speed blitz him or use his Sharingan.

2. ........That's bullshit, they did not travel a country's distance in one instance. Haku is not lightspeed, are you actually going to try and argue that Sasuke's fireball was also lightspeed?

3. Sharingan cannot see through rocks, that is bullshit, only Byakugan can. It can't see through anything physical, as shown by Kakashi who can't see through his headband while wearing it over his Sharingan to keep from wasting his chakra. See inside the soul? That helps how? All it did for Sasuke is allow him to supress the Kyuubi.

Originally posted by Warmonger
I just pointed out when. From the very first episode the hokage disperse his ninja to chase down Naruto they all flew off in a flash of speed with a Blur. When have low rank Shingami ever moved that fast?


Wrong, wrong, wrong. That is most definitely not a speed feat. Tons of anime characters move around like that. In order for it to be a speed feat, you need to compare it to what's happening around him. For instance, we know Byakuya was so fast (and in weak form) that he was able to cut Ichigo's sword without Ichigo even noticing it, then move back so that it doesn't even look like he moved from the spot he was standing on. That's a speed feat. Simply "moving in a blur" is not legitimate. That's like saying Daffy Duck is super speed because he makes that random dash effect on cartoons. Not legitimate.




Itachi has fast hand speed. Nowhere did he actually move around as fast as Rock Lee and definitely not as fast as Aizen.



It took Shunsui and Ukitake only one Shyunpo movement to traverse several miles, when they were about to fight Ganryusai. Also, keep in mind that Shyunpo can be controlled. A single Shyunpo movement can be a few meters, or up to miles at a time. Just having more allows you to confuse your opponents more.



Wrong, Chidori makes that sound, even when NOT moving.





Aizen curbstomped Renji AND Bankai Ichigo via speedblitz like it was nothing. Try to understand how fast Bankai Ichigo was, before you think his speed isn't all that. He even speed blitzed Hitsugaya like nothing, and he's a captain. What has Itachi done so far that even puts him half on Aizen's level? Nothing.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. No, that's A>B>C logic, Deidara can do that because he's a bomb specialist, Itachi is stronger cause all he needs to do is speed blitz him or use his Sharingan.

2. ........That's bullshit, they did not travel a country's distance in one instance. Haku is not lightspeed, are you actually going to try and argue that Sasuke's fireball was also lightspeed?

3. Sharingan cannot see through rocks, that is bullshit, only Byakugan can. It can't see through anything physical, as shown by Kakashi who can't see through his headband while wearing it over his Sharingan to keep from wasting his chakra. See inside the soul? That helps how? All it did for Sasuke is allow him to supress the Kyuubi.


a>b>c logic works perfectly in shounen manga/anime. specially naruto. this is the vastly inconsistant and retconned marvel/dc comics. i wasnt talking about him being a bomb specialist. im talking about the STRENGTH of the jutsu. concentrated or wide affect. urochimaru/itachi etc hae far stronger and damaging jutsu than diedara. your also discrediting fish boys ridicule of sasuke for taking so long with the fight.

and itachi is also stornger as his amaterasu burns hotter than the core of the sun. speedblitz and genjutsu are not his only options.

2. they did, they were out of the fire country where they were being hunted. also, they were at the ceremony of sealing the bijuu. haku was lightspeed. explicitly stated. HOWEVER, it was PIS. i admit that. the thing is, if you can use only high end feats to ridiculously power up bleach characters then im allowed to use high end feats to ridiculously power up naruto characters. get what im sayin

shaaringan can see through rocks. thats why itachi could hit all the targets in his anbu days, even those behind a rock. same with sasuke in his fight with naruto.shaaringan can most definately see through solid object. kakashi's wearing of the headband was only serious in the first 30 or so episodes. after that it was just symbolic. he normally keeps his shaaringan eye CLOSED.

i wasnt talking about how it helps. i was merely saying that the fact tht shinigami dont have chakra circulatory systems doesnt HELP them evade genjutsu since itachi's genjustu attacks the SOUL and not just your senses or chakra circulatory system.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
a>b>c logic works perfectly in shounen manga/anime. specially naruto. this is the vastly inconsistant and retconned marvel/dc comics. i wasnt talking about him being a bomb specialist. im talking about the STRENGTH of the jutsu. concentrated or wide affect. urochimaru/itachi etc hae far stronger and damaging jutsu than diedara. your also discrediting fish boys ridicule of sasuke for taking so long with the fight.

and itachi is also stornger as his amaterasu burns hotter than the core of the sun. speedblitz and genjutsu are not his only options.

2. they did, they were out of the fire country where they were being hunted. also, they were at the ceremony of sealing the bijuu. haku was lightspeed. explicitly stated. HOWEVER, it was PIS. i admit that. the thing is, if you can use only high end feats to ridiculously power up bleach characters then im allowed to use high end feats to ridiculously power up naruto characters. get what im sayin

shaaringan can see through rocks. thats why itachi could hit all the targets in his anbu days, even those behind a rock. same with sasuke in his fight with naruto.shaaringan can most definately see through solid object. kakashi's wearing of the headband was only serious in the first 30 or so episodes. after that it was just symbolic. he normally keeps his shaaringan eye CLOSED.

i wasnt talking about how it helps. i was merely saying that the fact tht shinigami dont have chakra circulatory systems doesnt HELP them evade genjutsu since itachi's genjustu attacks the SOUL and not just your senses or chakra circulatory system.

1. So what if Amaretsu is hotter than sunfire? It's not like Itachi will have a chance to use it against Aizen.... seeing as how he's going to be blitzed.

2. They did not trek across an entire country in an instant. And Haku stating he's light speed has way too many things going against it. For one thing, it wasn't stated in the ORIGINAL Japanese manga. Nor was it stated in the ORIGINAL Japanese anime. You simply cannot use a dub as your support. And another thing is, it's narrative hyperbole. To be light speed, you would literally have be at your destination before you actually left. That's a general idea of how fast light speed is. Haku was tagged by slow ass fire. He was even caught by Naruto. Are you going to say they're faster than light now? No, because that would be a ridiculous lie. And we're not "powering up" Bleach characters. We're telling you what is actually done. You're just wanking Naruto characters WAY past what they have done.

Itachi nailing those targets wasn't because of his Sharingan. It was because of his skill with the kunai/shuriken. And, no. he actually keeps his Sharingan eyes always activated. Since he's a true heir to the Sharingan, he doesn't waste chakra/strength, by keeping it on. Only time he actually did deactivate it was after he used Tsukiyomi twice and Amaretsu afterwards.

A>B>C logic doesn't work in Naruto. At least, not as well. Especially with Itachi. Think about it..

Itachi > Orochimaru. Generally, Orochimaru = Jiraiya >/= Tsunade (but barely) in terms of strength. When Kisame and Itachi were in Konoha, they deliberately avoided confrontation with Jiraiya, because they would get injured. THEY would get injured. That means two Akatsuki would barely be able to hold off Jiraiya, a sannin. Do you see the contradiction here? Akatsuki ain't shit. Especially to the likes of Aizen.

Where are you getting this "he's attacking the SOUL" crap? Genjutsu affects your perception of REALITY. That's what genjutsu (or really, genjitsu) literally means. Nowhere did it state that Itachi attacks your soul. That's crap. It messes with your mind, but not soul. You need to drop that argument, because it's blatantly not true

Originally posted by Haruhi
1. So what if Amaretsu is hotter than sunfire? It's not like Itachi will have a chance to use it against Aizen.... seeing as how he's going to be blitzed.

2. They did not trek across an entire country in an instant. And Haku stating he's light speed has way too many things going against it. For one thing, it wasn't stated in the ORIGINAL Japanese manga. Nor was it stated in the ORIGINAL Japanese anime. You simply cannot use a dub as your support. And another thing is, it's narrative hyperbole. To be light speed, you would literally have be at your destination before you actually left. That's a general idea of how fast light speed is. Haku was tagged by slow ass fire. He was even caught by Naruto. Are you going to say they're faster than light now? No, because that would be a ridiculous lie. And we're not "powering up" Bleach characters. We're telling you what is actually done. You're just wanking Naruto characters WAY past what they have done.

Itachi nailing those targets wasn't because of his Sharingan. It was because of his skill with the kunai/shuriken. And, no. he actually keeps his Sharingan eyes always activated. Since he's a true heir to the Sharingan, he doesn't waste chakra/strength, by keeping it on. Only time he actually did deactivate it was after he used Tsukiyomi twice and Amaretsu afterwards.

A>B>C logic doesn't work in Naruto. At least, not as well. Especially with Itachi. Think about it..

Itachi > Orochimaru. Generally, Orochimaru = Jiraiya >/= Tsunade (but barely) in terms of strength. When Kisame and Itachi were in Konoha, they deliberately avoided confrontation with Jiraiya, because they would get injured. THEY would get injured. That means two Akatsuki would barely be able to hold off Jiraiya, a sannin. Do you see the contradiction here? Akatsuki ain't shit. Especially to the likes of Aizen.

Where are you getting this "he's attacking the SOUL" crap? Genjutsu affects your perception of REALITY. That's what genjutsu (or really, genjitsu) literally means. Nowhere did it state that Itachi attacks your soul. That's crap. It messes with your mind, but not soul. You need to drop that argument, because it's blatantly not true

1. itachi is as fast if not faster than aizen. body flicker etc. he will never get speed blitzed by aizen. there is ZERO evidence to back up aizen.itachi in speed. admit it and let it go.

2. i already SAID that beyond lightspeed haku was PIS. hwever, the speed of IMAGES/reflection was not just dub. it is fact. it is there to counter high end feats when people start saying WHERE DID IT SAY THAT. im not wanking naruto characters anywhere, people just do not wanna admit to the fact that naruto characters have FAR surpassed current bleach characters in all fields.

and tell me, how can you show your SKILL at sumthing if you can not even sense its there? it was a simple display of itachi's level of shaaringan. stop trying to take away obvious feats. also, how the HECK do u think kakshi can see through body tissue/skin and look at the chakra circlatory system and chakra gates/tendons ligaments{all shown in rock lee vs gaar and neiji was hinata fight} if he cant see through solid object???? sorry my friend, you are beaten by evidence here.

and again ur wrong with the single shaaringan. hes already stated to consume more chakra/stamina than a real uchiha. and he doesnt KEEP IT on it alwas IS on by default. thats why he uses the head band to not expose it. what i meant to say was that he kept his EYELID closed to not exert the shaaringan.

and the logic does work. urochimaru has shown to be stronger than both. itachi and kisame avoided confrontation because KISAME was afraid and itachi did not wish to uselessly engage a time consuming target or START A WAR. he stated that later. there is no contradiction, itachi surpassed jiraya's ultiamet unbeatable jutsi which had jiraya flabbergasted. he also was only trying to ESCAPE and didnt stay for a fight. remeber what jiraya told naruto later, "i was barely able to save us both.. the difference between your level and theirs is too great". itachi alone was beyond jiraya. so your fault in my logic is just imaginary. a>b>c works really well in naruto.

as for the last part . when itachi tsukiyomi'd kakashi. he said, "even you are nothing against my ultimate undispellable genjustu" then he cast it. and when he explained the nature of tsukiyomi, he said "even though your body is fine, your SOUL can not tell the difference between reality and illusion and is fealing the pain. tsukiyomi is an illusion rapped in layers of PAIN through which your soul can not see" rough quote. tsukiyomi also left kakashi SICK for weeks and only tsunade cud heal him. tell me, how do u explain an ILLUSION of perception making a man physically sick for weeks.

fact is, tsukiymi targets the SOUL. and this is backed by the fact that sasuke enters naruto's SOUL with his "accursed shaaringan" as said by the kyuubi before it was suprssed into its seal inside naruto's SOUL.

depowering shaaringan and naruto characters wont work. current aizen will die against itachi. although im still waiting on his bankai{just as itachi's true power is still a mystery}/arrancar.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. itachi is as fast if not faster than aizen. body flicker etc. he will never get speed blitzed by aizen. there is ZERO evidence to back up aizen.itachi in speed. admit it and let it go.


Simply put, no. Itachi is not that fast. HE NEVER SHOWED ANY FEATS. Nobody in Naruto EVER showed any feats of speed that were on the level of Bleach. Especially Aizens. You're arguing and making things up as you go along. You pretend I didn't read Naruto, when I'm clearly correcting every lie you're bullshitting.



If Haku LS was PIS then why the hell are you constantly going back to it? Seriously, it's a weak argument. And a completely invalid one, full of holes. And again, Haku moving that fast still isn't as fast as Bleachers are. Your little ace in the hole doesn't apply here. And yes, you ARE wanking Naruto characters to ridiculous levels. When you deny that Itachi is slower than Aizen and other Bleachers, then I know you're wanking it up, because Naruto characters do not move and fight at the level of speed Bleacher do. In fact, have you even seen Bleach that you're pulling this? I mean, seriously. I think anybody that watches it will have an idea of just how ludicrously strong/fast Aizen really is.




Itachi was up in air when he tossed the kunais. He's seriously that damn good at tossing projectiles. He KNEW it was there. Why the hell do you think he was practicing in the first place? And Kakashi CANNOT see through body tissue/skin. That's limited ONLY to Byakugan. In fact, Kakashi even ADMITS HE CANNOT SEE THEM WITH HIS SHARINGAN. Now I know you're making shit up. Don't try to pull a fast one like that one over me.



That'a Kakashi, who had the Sharingan grafted into his eye. Itachi is a heir, therefore his body is able to handle the Sharingan (and Mangekyou Sharingan) without any wear and tear on his body. You must not know shit about Naruto, huh?




Itachi is the reason Oro even left Akatsuki. How is it that Orochimaru, who is stronger than both Tsunade and Jiraiya, be scared of a person who's not as strong as Jiraiya, with Kisame assist? That contradicts itself. In the hotel where Itachi, Kisame and Naruto were at, Itachi HIMSELF states that if they were to fight Jiraiya, they would BOTH get injured. Why the hell do you think they escaped from inside the frogs tunnel instead of outright fighting Jiraiya? If they were as strong as you claim them to be, they wouldn't have ran away like little bitches. And since when was that an "unbeatable, ultimate" jutsu? Geeze, stop making shit up. Sorry to say, but your logic is as flawed as your idea of Itachi beating Aizen is.




Bull.shit. Itachi STATES himself that Tsukiyomi is a genjutsu and asked Kakashi if his mind could handle it. And the reason he was hospitalized, NOT FOR WEEKS, but for a while,was because it left his mind a wreck. If your mind isn't working, then the rest of your body won't either.

Tsukiyomi targets your mind, like all Genjutsu. Sasuke messed with Naruto's mind.. nothing else with his Sharingan. Stop wanking.



Sorry... but, no. Current Aizen has shown speed and strength that easily pummels Itachi to the ground.

Here's a good example of the speed level of Ichigo's bankai(Aizen exceeds this speed by a lot) Just let it load and watch it starting at about the 6 minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp6Mr-B-HxM

Ignore leonheart, I debated him on Aizen and Itachi. He resorted to ignoring evidence and making things up as he goes along. I'm still waiting for him to confirm that Jyaraia told Sasuke to close his eye's.

I will be leaving this debate, the Akatsuki vs. SS thread is better and I don't like to debate against a bunch of lies.

Akatsuki v.s. SS.....

SS hands down.

Originally posted by Akuki
Their ability to do the shimmer and disappear cannot really be considered a speed feat, after all that's a classic thing seen in nearly all anime's even many of the fighers in Rurouni Kenshin had that ability. The difference in speed can be seen simply from the fact that thrown weapons still have some sort of effect and can hit in Naruto, how fast can those possibly be going, maybe 100 mph tops? In Bleach in Ichigo's bankai form he is smacking down 1000's of projectiles moving a bullet speeds, something that no naruto character comes close to doing.

Aizen's attack didn't kill the Captain because he was messing around. In bleach if you leave off the enchantment part of the spell, the spell becomes about 3 or 4 times more difficult to cast. Aizen was casting on of the most powerful spells that no other shinigami has approached without the enchantment just to test himself, and as a result of that the spell was only 1/3 it's normal power. Anyways Aizen left soul society because he chose to, not because he was defeated. Also what could Itachi do to hurt Aizen, Aizen either uses his reiatsu to pin Itachi to the ground and cut his head off, and Aizen has been shown to block extremely powerful blades and attacks with his bare hands.

Shimmering and dissapreing is a speed feat. IT doens't matter if its common to anime it shows that you are moving faster than the eye can track.

There is nothgin improiper about it if someone is draw as a simply a blur it means their moving really fast.

"Bullet Speeds" see that is an improper generalization. A bullet moves at around a certain speed. So unless you got a radar gun out there measuring the speed of attacks your just guessing. Which is no different than what I said. Also check Sakuras fight with Sasori if you want to see agility feats. Though they belong to Chiyo not Sakura.

I told you, the two meet Aiznehas no idea what a sharingan is and he makes eye contact and its game over. Or lets say he attacks turns out he just attacked a shadow clone and now he is caught in one of Itachi's Genjutsus. Or Itachi jsut sidesteps and cuts his throat cause his Sharingan easily allows him to see it coming.

Aizen would own Itachi. Sharigan only effects Someones sight, by not looking, it is avoidable, and also that deidra(the clay one that fought sasuke) trained his eye to see through the genjutsu of the sharigan.

but Aizens soulcutter has the ability of complete hypnosis, it affects all senses not just sight. And even if you know its coming then you still can't stop be effected by it and you still can't escape.

It will be interesting too see how Ichigo can avoid it.

Also Aizens captian level soul pressure would block any attack that Itachi could land, Like when Ichigo fought kenpachi and he had to have more soul pressure then kenpachi to cut him.

Aizen owns Itachi!!!

Originally posted by Haruhi
Wrong, wrong, wrong. That is most definitely not a speed feat. Tons of anime characters move around like that. In order for it to be a speed feat, you need to compare it to what's happening around him. For instance, we know Byakuya was so fast (and in weak form) that he was able to cut Ichigo's sword without Ichigo even noticing it, then move back so that it doesn't even look like he moved from the spot he was standing on. That's a speed feat. Simply "moving in a blur" is not legitimate. That's like saying Daffy Duck is super speed because he makes that random dash effect on cartoons. Not legitimate.

Tons sure. Tehre are also Tons that don't. If they never used the flash in Bleach then it would be one of them but they use it to show when a character is moving fast. What with the double standard. If they use it in Bleach its because their fast but if they use it in NAruto it is meaningless?


Originally posted by Haruhi

Itachi has fast hand speed. Nowhere did he actually move around as fast as Rock Lee and definitely not as fast as Aizen.
He was able to creat a shadow cloen and get it behind Kakashi before he or anyone else realized it. Also check out Naurto Shippuden 14 his clone at 30 percent was able to dodge Chidori. Also Itachi is hard to guage because he hasn't had a major fight.


Originally posted by Haruhi

It took Shunsui and Ukitake only one Shyunpo movement to traverse several miles, when they were about to fight Ganryusai. Also, keep in mind that Shyunpo can be controlled. A single Shyunpo movement can be a few meters, or up to miles at a time. Just having more allows you to confuse your opponents more.

??? Are you sure cause I just looked at the epsiode. They dived off a cliff and were tlakign then the epsidoe shifted to something else then later it comes back and then they appear in the miidle of the street. Nowhere for all you know it could have take nt hem a hundread. Not to mention how do you know it was "miles" for all you know it could have been 1. Eithe rway they didn't get htere in one move it took them a while.


Originally posted by Haruhi

Wrong, Chidori makes that sound, even when NOT moving.
Nope it makes the electrical humming but it only makes the chirping when moving.




Originally posted by Haruhi

Aizen curbstomped Renji AND Bankai Ichigo via speedblitz like it was nothing. Try to understand how fast Bankai Ichigo was, before you think his speed isn't all that. He even speed blitzed Hitsugaya like nothing, and he's a captain. What has Itachi done so far that even puts him half on Aizen's level? Nothing.

Tell me how fast he was. How many MPH? You don't know your jsut guessing. Rock lee was moving over 3000mph. Lol I don't know how fast he was moving. HE was moving faster than anything they'dd showed until then. Tell me that Ichigo was defieneltly moving faster. Go ahead. Even better Prove it.They did the exact same thing. The appeared and dissapred an vanished and moved in blurs, ddging attacks from a guy standing there throwing a large amount of deadly material at them. But you say that, that doesn't count because a Naruto character did it.

Aizen has done nothing at all really.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Tons sure. Tehre are also Tons that don't. If they never used the flash in Bleach then it would be one of them but they use it to show when a character is moving fast. What with the double standard. If they use it in Bleach its because their fast but if they use it in NAruto it is meaningless?


No, because that "shimmering and disappearing" act in Bleach actually has a name - Shyunpo, which is super speed movement. It even is described as that by characters who do that. Naruto characters just do that as in effect.




And that's a speed feat? Moving a couple of meters? Uh, no. And it's funny you mention that it's hard to gauge Itachi because he hasn't had a major fight so far, yet he's constantly shown signs of weaknesses and shortcomings. OTOH, Aizen, who also hasn't had a major confrontation yet, JUST owned people, before disappearing.




That scene was happening while they were escaping from Ganryusai. The mile(s) movement I'm talking about is when Ukitake with somebody in his arms, quickly left the scene, dropped said person off in a safe distance, then came right back. Ganryusai comments that he was able to move several miles in an instant.



It makes the chirping sound even when immobilzed. When Sasuke stuck his Chidori into Gaara's sand coccoon, you could still hear the chirping sound.




Um, Ichigo was moving faster than Rock Lee was, even without weights on. Seriously, take a look at the episode where he fought against Byakuya. Rock Lee fought against a perpetual turtle who doesn't know shit about moving at high speeds. Ichigo was fighting a captain who's speciality WAS speed, and was almost onpar with the Flash God Yoroichi. And even then, he had a slight edge over Byakuya. And even better, he cut through thousands of sharp petals like nothing. As much as I love Rock Lee (favourite Naruto character), even he's not as fast as a Bleacher. I still think he and Gai are the fasted in Naruto, though.



You clearly didn't watch the end of the Soul Society arc, then. All he did was own people with ease. And these people he owned were damn badass in their own rights. Itachi hasn't done shit, though. At least, not like Aizen.

Originally posted by Akuki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp6Mr-B-HxM
Again I recommend people who doubt Bleach speed watch the 6th minute of this video.

Originally posted by Akuki
Again I recommend people who doubt Bleach speed watch the 6th minute of this video. Talk about epic jobbing, this is why I hate non-canon bleach.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Talk about epic jobbing, this is why I hate non-canon bleach.
I don;t know about that, it's about the same level of speed seen during his fight with Byakuya, and we know he's faster than that now.

Originally posted by Akuki
I don;t know about that, it's about the same level of speed seen during his fight with Byakuya, and we know he's faster than that now.
No, I mean't the fact that 5 captains couldn't beat this one guy, but Ichigo did in one attack.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
No, I mean't the fact that 5 captains couldn't beat this one guy, but Ichigo did in one attack. I will agree with that, I mainly just used it because of the speed feats.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Talk about epic jobbing, this is why I hate non-canon bleach.

Why I never watch anything non-canon. Unless it's just funny stuff.

Fillers are such bullshit.

Mangekyou Sharingan FTW, all it take is for Aizen to look in his eyes and its game over.

Originally posted by Lord Prime
Mangekyou Sharingan FTW, all it take is for Aizen to look in his eyes and its game over.

Ignorant.

All it takes is for the fight to exist in the first place, and the outcome is decided -- Aizen chops off Itachi's head long before he can activate any genjutsu.

your saying SIMPY PUT, doesnt mean anything here. it is not evidence. you fail to provide any that suggests logically that aizen is faster than itachi. your bawling doesnt prove anything and there is not a single shred of evidence to the contrary in that paragraph.





im not using it to BACK my argument. im using it as a display of high end feats which exist in both naruto AND bleach. its an example of how people with common sense shoul NOT hype up the characters based on only high end inconsistant feat and forget low end feats.

and again, you simply saying that aizen moving as fast as bleachers are is NO valid argument to accept your position. give me EVIDENCE to back up/compare speed level. and dont use childish tactics like call me sum1 whose "wanking up naruto" based on the unproven assumption of yours that "AIZEN IS FASTER THAN ITACHI" prove this and only THEN will your statement carry weight.






your clearly arguing against evidence here. itachi was practicing to hit targets in the BLIND SPOT. he wasnt just working on his aim, he was working on sumthinhg the human eye cud not SEE. that is why sasuke was so impressed. you have ZERO evidence to say that shaaringan can not see through material.

and really you ought to know better. that si, if you watch naruto.

kakashi ADMITS TO NOT BE ABLE TO SEE "TENKUTSU"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. which are CHAKRA PORES, ON the outside of the body u fool. he never admitted to not being able to see inside the body. the chakra pores were too small for him to see with HIS LEVEL OF SHAARINGAN. he cud see the chakra circulatory system just fine. that is why he commented on it. and THAT is why with his shaaringan he pointed out that rock lee's muscles had ripped/tendons had ripped. when he was going super speed with his ryuu gates open. kakashi saw his INNER MUSCLES/TENDONS at THAT SPEED. tell me how a person can see tendons/muscles without being able to look through skin/bone/sinew etc. your making crap up here. he only admitted to not being anle to see CHAKRA PORES. dont try to pull that one on me again.





you were referring to kakashi. and why he wore the headband over his left eye. please do not try to twist statements to suit your self.





now your being idiotic. i already EXPLAINED how itachi was always stronger than jiraya. maybe u didnt read my response. itachi never said HE wud get injured. he said there was a chance that thye MIGHT recieve some injury as jiraya was no pushoer{he was referring more to kisame than himself}. he later explained that they were not in konohakagura to FIGHT, and didnt wanna start a war, THAT is why he left saying that there was no need to capture naruto at the time. jiraya admitted later that they were aboe his level. before casting his frog stomach jutsu, he said that it was a jutsu NO1 had ever escaped from. and why do u htink kisame confronted jiraya and jiraya didnt help sasuke against itachi if he was as poerful as u make it seem. itachi>jiraya>kisame. jiraya was shocked when they escaped with amaterasu and told naruto that he was BARELY able to save them both and the oppositions level was "too high".

they didnt run away like bitches. they left of their own will.







yes he says its genjutsu. and this genjutsu works at the SOUL. you obvioulsy read everything and not WATCH or read naruto. there are THREE explanations for genjutsu. first given by shikamaru in the chuunin exam against curse mark. {genjutsu works by targettinn the five senses}

second by jiraya when teaching naruto in shippuden to counter genjutsu{genjutsu works by targetting the chakra circulatory system. if u can shut your chakra, you can break free of it}

third given by itachi when he targetted kakashi{tsukiyomi, the ultimate undispellable genjutsu works on the soul. and the soul does not know the illusion from reality. and therefore it hurts the same as real life and its an illusion covered in layers of pain}

itachi already proved by hspitalising kakshi for two weeks{yes it WAS two weeks, that was how long it took jiraya and naruto to make tsunade come back. even she comments on the time period to kakashi} and explaining that it was the soul. he also surpassed the first condition because he cast it on naruto when he was looking away {decidedly} in shippuden and to sasuke with his eyes closed.{he only needs a finger and that was his CLONE} he also surpassed the second condition where naruto was completely unsuccesful to evade it by shutting down his chakra circulatory system{again this was the weaker CLONE who didnt use tsukiyomi} it IS the soul.

this is backed by how sasuke supressed the kyuubi. tell me, does the kyuubi live inside naruto's MIND????? no, it lives inside his SOUL. how cud sasuke get their and exert himself if shaaringan only acts on the mind?





name ONE feat where his speed can be verified as greater than naruto speed. just ONE. and strength??? dont make me laugh, i can give you tons of strength/destructiveness feats in naruto which DWARF the entire soul society as it stands right now. 4 tails/diedara/manda/rock lee/bijuu/gaara/etc. aizen doesnt have a prayer, the way he currently is.

I've got a reason why Aizen is faster than Itachi, he's shown more impressive speed feats, whereas Itachi has almost none.

Originally posted by Lord Prime
Mangekyou Sharingan FTW, all it take is for Aizen to look in his eyes and its game over. And, Aizen can't do the same with Kyoka Suigetsu?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
your saying SIMPY PUT, doesnt mean anything here. it is not evidence. you fail to provide any that suggests logically that aizen is faster than itachi. your bawling doesnt prove anything and there is not a single shred of evidence to the contrary in that paragraph.



Wrong. I've provided numerous examples of how fast Aizen is. If not me, then others have here and the other thrad.



Don't ever mention that light speed shit again here then.



I ****ing TOLD you Aizen BLITZED THE SHIT OUT OF ICHIGO, WHO HIMSELF WAS A FAST ASS MOTHER****ER. Ichigo Shyunpoing is ALREADY faster than everything else Naruto characters have ever done. Have you ****ing watched/read Bleach yet or are you just taking a one-sided fanboy look at everything? Take a good look at everything said. And yes, you DO wank Naruto up. You've been doing it since the beginning of this discussion. Wanking, I mean, because you're lying your ass off, either out of ignorance, or because you're taking us for fools who don't know anything about Naruto. Newsflash! We know more about it than you do, so don't try to pull a fast one on us.




Actually, you're in luck. I was watching that episode recently in the hospital on tvlinks. And yes, he did hit it with sheer skill. Even Sasuke admits that Itachi's shuriken skill is above most par. Think logically for a minute. Would it really be that difficult of a practice if he COULD see through solid material with his Sharingan? If he could do that, it's just a run of the mill target. The point of that exercise was to test his aiming skills, which again, is badass, even WITHOUT Sharingan.

And, Sharingan has never been able to look through material.




Or, you know, he could've simply NOTICED that Lee's arms and legs were broken judging by the movement of his limbs. Let me give you the details on the Sharingan.

1 Tomoe (dot) : Allows you to see through genjutus, ninjutus and taijutsu.

2 Tomoe : Allows you to copy other peoples jutus, minus the bloodline ones.

3 Tomoe : Allows you to perform genjutsu against target via eye contact.

The Byakugan allows you to see through objects, 360 degrees around you, chakra tenketsus and even inside your body. Sharingan doesn't.




Wrong. He said they WOULD have received injuries. Keyword there is THEY. As in, Itachi included. He wasn't referring to Kisame more than himself. Quit lying. Jiraiya didn't say they were above HIS level. He said they were above Naruto's level, when he tried going after them. And who cares if they escaped one jutsu? It's not like breaking one jutsu automatically means "ZOMG JIRAIYA SUX ITACHI ROX!!" If Itachi were as strong as you wank him to be, he could've just taken out Jiraiya and called it a day. Kisame being there would've only been extra battery. They ran away like bitches. In fact, Kisame wanted to stay and fight. It was Itachi who pussied out.




Bullshit. None of that ever happened. Nobody ever said Genjutsu affected your soul. Stop trying to bullshit me.




Kyuubi lives inside his BODY. This is fact. And Sasuke used GENJUTSU. That affects your MIND.





Speed. People here have given you numerous examples on how fast Aizen is, myself included. If you don't get it by now, you're an idiot who lacks comprehension. And instead, compensate for it with rabid fanboyism.

Strength. Look at what was written.

Go away, scrub. You don't know shit about Naruto OR Bleach

not numerous, you keep on saying numerous but there are only a few. and NONE of them can be verified to COMPARE speeds. stop lying. otherwise, give an estimated speed{in KM/HOUR} if it IS POSSIBLE at all to verify his speed. otherwise, shut the hole in your face spewing flaming sewage.





i will if you continnue to mention ichigo blocking so n so byakuya swords.
stop trying to be gangsta newbie





oh, is your lack of credibility and evidence frustrating you? . agreed they are fast characters, and aizen> ichigo>byakuya in speed. but how fast is BYAKUYA to begin with. think of any TRUE verifyable feat this time instead of brainstorming BS and give me a speed estimate based on logical facts in km/hour. otherwise their speed feats mean absolutely nuthing to naruto speed feats. they can not be compared. the other part of that paragraph is useless bawling and tantrum throwing. {oddly, you assume just because other people support bleach here, that theyr your FRIENDS. hence using the word "US". please stop trying ot make yourself feal better about you ok}






the point was to show his amazing mastery of the SHAARINGAN. and that is why sasuke was amazed. there is still the feat of seeing naruto behind the rock on the lake in sasuke's defection and using the shaaringan controlled shuriken/threads to trap him.






that is OLD description. if that was all there was to it, kyuubi, itachi, madara, urochimaru and tobi wudnt give much of a damn about shaaringan. if you wanna make fake arguments why not take the ORIGINAL explanation of shaaringan in zabuza saga and say it only has an eye of insight and an eye of illusion and nuthing more. please dont talk out of ur ass, the shasringan has been powered up far more since then.

and let me explain what broen TENDONS and MUSCLES do. the instantly cripple your movement ability on sopt as you cant conduct energy form your muscles to the tendons to the bones which mive in leverage. if he saw his hands /limbs DEAD then he cud say that they were broken. but rock lee was ACTIVELY using his limbs to the nth degree with no slowing at all, so how cud kakashi have seen just the outside. fact is he was looking at the INSIDE of his body.he also confirmed this by comparing the byaakugan's then ability of insight and said, that even HE could not see the chakra pores{but could see the chakra circulatory system}. but then who am i kidding, youve already lied about this event and try to portray it as kakashi admitting that he cudnt see inside the body which he never did.

more evidence, in sasuke's fight with diedara, he could see the mine buried in the ground and that is why he pierced his sword straight through it when it was hidden in the ground. also, he was visually able ot see diedara's inside as a demonic bomb{on panel} when his chest absorbed the clay for his suicidal jutsu.






wrong, he said they MIGHT get injured. and they was merely used because kisame was with him. there is no reason to believe he was referring to himself more than kisame. jiraya said he was barely able to stop them from taking naruto. and they surpassed his ultimate jutsu. furthermore, urochimaru later said that itachi is stronger than him to begin with. im not saying jiraya sucks, he wud give itachi a fight as much as urochimaru, but we already know both of them lost{one more than the other as itachi was at the offensive with urochimaru}.

and again, ur forgetting the fact that itachi wasnt there to fight. he already said tthey were not there for hostililty or to accidentaly start a war. since akatsuki's hidden status was already compromised. itachi did not run like a *****. if he had directed his amaterasu against naruto/sasuke/jiraya, they would probably be dead.






. more tantrums? itachi CLEARLY said that kakashi's soul could not tell the difference between the pain and reality.







thats the biggest load of crap ever. the kyuubi is the size multiple footbal stadiums. plus it lives in an orange labyrinth inside a cage/seal in water. do you think naruto's physical body can house all that?!

dont be an idiot. it live inside naruto's soul. sasuke entered naruto's soul.







and, you keep saying theyve given speed feats. they have hardly given 3 or 4. NONE of which can be verified to be faster than naruto. if they truly are, give me a real world speed estimate my friend.



i have. its nuthing new, nuthing worth much. i know more about either than u ever will{judging from your show of intelligent discussion here}. again, stop trying to be an egotistical mob boss kid . this is an online forum.

Originally posted by leonheartmm


thats the biggest load of crap ever. the kyuubi is the size multiple footbal stadiums. plus it lives in an orange labyrinth inside a cage/seal in water. do you think naruto's physical body can house all that?!

isn't your soul in your body?

yes. but it isnt PHSYCIALLY in the body. the soul isnt a physical construst confined by space etc.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
not numerous, you keep on saying numerous but there are only a few. and NONE of them can be verified to COMPARE speeds. stop lying. otherwise, give an estimated speed{in KM/HOUR} if it IS POSSIBLE at all to verify his speed. otherwise, shut the hole in your face spewing flaming sewage.


FACT. Byakuya was able to move several meters, cut off Ichigo's sword, return to former spot WHILE Ichigo kept his eyes on him. And this was only when he was at minimal state, as he was in the human world, not the Soul Society. FACT. Shyunpo allows user to travel vast miles in an instant. FACT. Ichigo is able to cut up thousands of projectiles simultaneously in an instant, fired from different directions. FACT. Aizen owned all of them, DESPITE their already impressive speed showings. Now, tell me. Has Itachi or anybody else done something remotely close to this level? No. Now, stop making your up delusional stories and move on. BTW, you can't provide KM/Hour stats either, so don't even try to pull that card on me, scrub.





One thing is true. The other isn't. Guess which one is, and isn't? Scrub.





Actually, I heard that typing in all caps sometimes helps in getting through to inept readers as it's just plain bigger. And yes, they can be compared, even w/out the actual mathematical data. For one thing, NOBODY in Naruto has ever canonically done something as impressive as Bleach. For another, speed has been displayed regularly in much of the fights. OTOH, Naruto is all about fancy jutsus, clever tricks and whatnot. Speed is NOT that much emphasized in Naruto. However, if you must know, I recommend you check out CBR forums, as they've actually compiled range of how fast Shyunpo users really are, given how much distance they travel and how much time allotted for said distance. It's somewhere in the high mach speeds, believe it or not.







No, he was referring to himself AND Kisame. Hence, the plural "we." And when the heck was his frog stomach thing ever an ultimate jutsu? Yeah, right. There you go again, making crap up. And, it's funny you mention all that, yet Itachi still ran away like a little *****. Kisame's presence there only benefited him that much more. He's not a handicap for Itachi at all. No matter what you say about the situation, the fact of the matter is, Itachi retreated from Jiraiya, making him the loser.



Haha. Fanboy at his best. All that ultimately points to one thing. Itachi ran away like a coward. He lost. No matter how impressive his escape was (using Amaretsu), the fact is, he still pussied away. You can try to deny it all you want to, but that's how the events unfolded. Itachi ran away. Haha. When has Aizen ever ran away from ONE person? Oh, right. Never. Especially when he had others with him?




No he didn't.





It's pretty impressive how much seals can do, eh? And yes, he is housed instead of Naruto's body. Through the many, many chapters/episodes of Naruto ,not once did they mention anything about him being stuffed into his soul. They always mention Naruto's BODY. They even make constant references to it, saying Naruto's body wasn't "big enough" or "strong enough." Sasuke enters Naruto's mind, via genjutsu. Then uses his worst fears/experiences against him.






Judging from everything you say, it's pretty obvious you have no idea how fast Bleach really operates. Especially the higher ups, like the captains. Feats are what we go by, and by feats alone, Bleach HAS done more impressive things with speed than Naruto. Not saying Naruto is slow by any stretch of the imagination, but just that Bleach operates much much faster.

I'm through with you. Time and time again, I've given you an impressive list of feats by the Bleachers, and all you can do is make up lies to cover up the fact that Itachi loses here. Oh well. Aizen > Itachi.

Moving on.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes. but it isnt PHSYCIALLY in the body. the soul isnt a physical construst confined by space etc.

Souls don't exsist.

genin rock lee was able to deliver hundreds of full contact pounches in mid air in the time it took gaara to a fall a metre all in the air.haku was able to move from mirror to mirror thousands of times before sasuke with his body flicker could react at all and practically turn sasuke and naruto into purcupines. zabuza was able to move the strength of a football field after throwing his sword {he moved at exactly the time that kakashi evaded his sword} and appeared behind the opposite ninjas standing on top of his blade. neiji was able to deliver over one thousand surgical strikes to his over 1000 opposing enemy spiders in less than a few seconds. naruto with kyuubi chakra{not tail} was moving fast enough to set fir to a large plank of wood simply by the speed of the natural air around him and it burned the plank to nuthing in less than a second. he was running so fast that mountain rock was being shredded from beneath his feat and sasuke still easily dudged him with basic level three shaaringan. urochimaru was moving so fast against 2 dot shaaringan sasuke that it looked like a single body surrounded him. rock lee without his weights {without gates open} was moving beyond the speed of sound. naruto was running so fast on water around sasuke in the lake that it turne into a huge water spout. in his fight with neiji, in his cakra form, each blow they traded was so fast that the explosions were reachings higher than the stadium itself. these are all PRE shippuden feats. needles, shippuden are FAR too many and far too superior. i dont wanna get into it.

and you see, you simply stating those high end and few bleach feats isnt enough. plus not ONE of them is the type where speed can be verified. it isnt a card when your beaten idiot. stop being a coward and turn them into km/hours if THEY ARE VERIFYABLE. cause otherwise, theyr not and can not be compared to naruto feats.







u shud ponder over changing your name to flaming idiot. but then that wud actually require you to have the analytical skills to understand the content of this statement.







yap yap yap. im too tired{cause i cant say unable} to back up my statements with credible criteria for judging both feats. so ill resort to being stubborn.






yap yap, ill provide no evidence, just statements which show my personal bias and nuthing else. ill also disreguard the fact that jirayastated so himself and he hasnt yet shown a better jutsu.





statements with no evidence again.






yes he did.







really? your lying again. the shinigami technique seals the victim forever in the stomach of the shinigami and the SOUL of the sacrifice is charged by the shinigami. it seals the SOUL of the opposition. this is the only explanation given of the binding technique. his body is not strong enough to deal with the CHAKRA of the kyuubi which leaks from the seal into his own circulatory system. again, tell me, how can the kyuubi fit in his PHYSICAL body? you can not. furthermore, the place he enters, isnt part of his PHYSICAL body as it looks nuthing like it. SPIRITUAL body=soul. the kyuubi residesin naruto's soul. please do not make idiotic arguments just for the sake of arguing.

sasuke NEVER used his worst expiriences agains naruto. and naruto was THERE, standing, ready to recieve kyuubi chakra in a place which WASNT part of his biologicla body. and sasuke put the kyuubi back in its seal with his accursed shaaringan power. that was in the SOUL.








lol. your lying again. if you have an idea, TELL ME, how fast they go in km/hour. give an approximate at least. untill then your claims are as empty as your argument. you have zero evidence to back u up{that is why u never attampt it}



impressive yes. but ive given more impressive feats by naruto characters. in destructiveness/technique/flexibility/strength/illusion casting/telepathy etc they are superior. that cna be verified by feats.
only criteria left is speed and bleach spead feats are inconsistant and are such that no1 can generalise about what their ACTUAL speed is for comparison. just saying its FASTER THAN NARUTO without being able to verify doesnt count. and you havent given a speed estimate.

sorry, your argument is silly as it stands.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Souls don't exsist.

then where does the kyuubi reside?????

how is the kyuubi even able to live seeing as its physical body doesnt exist?????

what was the shinigami pulling out of urochimaru's body in his fight against yondaime????

how did the previous hokages reincarnate in host bodies of killed henchmen of urochimaru????

why did sandaime tell urochimaru "your soul is already half out of your body, so you should be able to see it{shinigamit} now"

why did urochimaru THEN see the shinigami when he couldnt before?

how does urochimaru transfer bodies without physically putting his brain into another body????

what is it that the shinigami asks the caster to sacrifice for sealing the foe?

why is yondaime dead??

how could pupeteer akatsuki live inside a puppet without his body???

what is the LITERAL definition of a shinigami?

answer: souls exist in naruto

Originally posted by leonheartmm
then where does the kyuubi reside?????
how is the kyuubi even able to live seeing as its physical body doesnt exist?????

what was the shinigami pulling out of urochimaru's body in his fight against yondaime????






how did the previous hokages reincarnate in host bodies of killed henchmen of urochimaru????

why did sandaime tell urochimaru "your soul is already half out of your body, so you should be able to see it{shinigamit} now"

why did urochimaru THEN see the shinigami when he couldnt before?

how does urochimaru transfer bodies without physically putting his brain into another body????

what is it that the shinigami asks the caster to sacrifice for sealing the foe?

why is yondaime dead??

how could pupeteer akatsuki live inside a puppet without his body???

what is the LITERAL definition of a shinigami?

answer: souls exist in naruto That wasn't the point, your explanation of the soul residing in blah, blah, blah is illogical. Souls do not exsist for you to make refrence, unless this is another kishimoto comment you can't confirm. Yes, souls exsist in Naruto, but not the way your explaining.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
That wasn't the point, your explanation of the soul residing in blah, blah, blah is illogical. Souls do not exsist for you to make refrence, unless this is another kishimoto comment you can't confirm. Yes, souls exsist in Naruto, but not the way your explaining.

erm, when did this turn into a philosophical debate about what the soul is? ill just explain them simply, ethereal bodies {not physical as seen by the way sandaime percieved the other hokage's souls before consuming them through shinigami and how urochimaru looked like after being half out} not physical in nature, housing life force/conciounce, and in naruto's case, not having physical volume/space etc limitations as an entire realm of the kyuubi can fit inside his soul

there HAPPY with this new one?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm, when did this turn into a philosophical debate about what the soul is?

When you tried to explain where the soul is located.


Originally posted by leonheartmm

ill just explain them simply, ethereal bodies {not physical as seen by the way sandaime percieved the other hokage's souls before consuming them through shinigami and how urochimaru looked like after being half out} not physical in nature, housing life force/conciounce, and in naruto's case, not having physical volume/space etc limitations as an entire realm of the kyuubi can fit inside his soul

there HAPPY with this new one?



Your missing the point, your explanation for the soul and it's place in naruto is your conjecture. With no evidence I might add.

huh? i thought i already gave evidence for why souls existed{quite e few points} and why you can vaguely define the characteristics of naruto souls{again, evidence based on uro examples/kyuubi existing etc} . its not like its a perfect definition but it does make the whole perspective narrower and easier to define.

maybe if you can point out exactly WHICH part of my definition there is no evidence for{As in which characteristic that im imposing on naruto souls which is without evidence to back it up} for naruto souls, than i cud give a better response. as i dont understand your misgiving about my definition right now.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
huh? i thought i already gave evidence for why souls existed{quite e few points} and why you can vaguely define the characteristics of naruto souls{again, evidence based on uro examples/kyuubi existing etc} . its not like its a perfect definition but it does make the whole perspective narrower and easier to define.

I never stated that souls did not exsist in the narutoverse. I said your explainations are unfounded.


Originally posted by leonheartmm

maybe if you can point out exactly WHICH part of my definition there is no evidence for{As in which characteristic that im imposing on naruto souls which is without evidence to back it up} for naruto souls, than i cud give a better response. as i dont understand your misgiving about my definition right now.

*cough*

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes. but it isnt PHSYCIALLY in the body. the soul isnt a physical construst confined by space etc.

Ignore this putz. He obviously has no idea what he's talking about. Just let him falsely believe that Itachi actually has a chance.

what i MEANT to say was that souls are not physically in the body the same way a thing with matter/mass/volume is. it was to not send ambiguous signals that the kyuubi is in the soul and the soul is in the body hence the kyuubi is in the body. the soul is certainly in the body but not in the same was as matter cn enter the physical construct of the body. it is a SPIRIT. and it resides inside a pesons body. only not SPATIALLY reside in a person. {and here is where english language stops allowing us clearer words to express ideas}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
what i MEANT to say was that souls are not physically in the body the same way a thing with matter/mass/volume is.

How would this apply to the Narutoverse?


Originally posted by leonheartmm

it was to not send ambiguous signals that the kyuubi is in the soul and the soul is in the body hence the kyuubi is in the body. the soul is certainly in the body but not in the same was as matter cn enter the physical construct of the body. it is a SPIRIT. and it resides inside a pesons body. only not SPATIALLY reside in a person. {and here is where english language stops allowing us clearer words to express ideas}

If you say so.

it applies because it demonstrates how sasuke, when he faced off against the kyuubi and supressed it into its seal, was infact inside naruto's SOUL with the power of his shaaringan as opposed to his BODY{which others claim}.

it makes clearer, the point about shaaringan affecting the soul/itachi targetting the soul etc. {well he did say so but some peopel just cant accept that}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it applies because it demonstrates how sasuke, when he faced off against the kyuubi and supressed it into its seal, was infact inside naruto's SOUL with the power of his shaaringan as opposed to his BODY{which others claim}.

it makes clearer, the point about shaaringan affecting the soul/itachi targetting the soul etc. {well he did say so but some peopel just cant accept that}


He simply stopped naruto from using kyubi's chakra. What evidence do you have, supporting he can do more than that?

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
He simply stopped naruto from using kyubi's chakra. What evidence do you have, supporting he can do more than that?


errrrr, when did i make the claim that he cud do more or not do more. we dont know and it is not important. the POINT was only to prove that shaaringan infact CAN work on the SOUL level as opposed to the senses/chakra level. and itachi's tsukiyomi attacks the soul. where did doing more than supressing the kyuubi come from?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
in his fight with neiji, in his cakra form, each blow they traded was so fast that the explosions were reachings higher than the stadium itself. these are all PRE shippuden feats. needles, shippuden are FAR too many and far too superior. i dont wanna get into it.

explosions?

they were lights

not the last one. that was an explosion. and one clash before that. {when neiji started using his kaiten and naruto came in headfirst and both their kunai's made contact}.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
He simply stopped naruto from using kyubi's chakra. What evidence do you have, supporting he can do more than that?


He can't. Everything he's babbling is pure, incoherant speculations.

Everybody who knows Naruto, knows how full of crap he is.

Originally posted by Haruhi
He can't. Everything he's babbling is pure, incoherant speculations.

Everybody who knows Naruto, knows how full of crap he is.

says the guy who can not produce a single grain of evidence to back up his position or a single estimate of speed. and resorts to attempting his hand at insulting other peoples arguments while he himself lacks the anylitical skill necessary from understanding them.

nice try, but throw your tantrum some place else crybaby.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
genin rock lee was able to deliver hundreds of full contact pounches in mid air in the time it took gaara to a fall a metre all in the air. Wow, you must think we know absolutely nothing, don't you? First of all, Rock Lee is actually shown to be FASTER than some older and more experienced ninja, second, HE WAS OPENING THE FIFTH GATE WHICH PUTS HIS SPEED FAR ABOVE JONIN LEVEL! Again with the lies.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Wow, you must think we know absolutely nothing, don't you? First of all, Rock Lee is actually shown to be FASTER than some older and more experienced ninja, second, HE WAS OPENING THE FIFTH GATE WHICH PUTS HIS SPEED FAR ABOVE JONIN LEVEL! Again with the lies.

please do no be stupid. i never claimed that he hadnt opened the 5th gate. never claimed he wasnt above AVERAGE jounin {although if u think about it gai had to open all but the last gate to battle off kisame CLONE at 30% power if even that} but against the akatsuki, i dunno. it doesnt count.

so tell me, WHERE was i lying. i was merely mentioning pre ctimeskip speed feats. never claimed any of the things you implied i claimed. if u have quotes, show me where i said he handt opened the gates and was slower than a regular jounin.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
please do no be stupid. i never claimed that he hadnt opened the 5th gate. never claimed he wasnt above AVERAGE jounin {although if u think about it gai had to open all but the last gate to battle off kisame CLONE at 30% power if even that} but against the akatsuki, i dunno. it doesnt count.

so tell me, WHERE was i lying. i was merely mentioning pre ctimeskip speed feats. never claimed any of the things you implied i claimed. if u have quotes, show me where i said he handt opened the gates and was slower than a regular jounin. You were overhyping a feat without explaining it's circumstances to help your case. And if I'm stupid, why is it you are the one that thinks Dante kills multiverse shattering beings?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You were overhyping a feat without explaining it's circumstances to help your case. And if I'm stupid, why is it you are the one that thinks Dante kills multiverse shattering beings?

OVERHYPING?! what is wrong with u? how can i overhype a feat in a LIST of many feats with nospecial indication towrds itself. and how can i overhype it when the description is true and statistics of pounches/fall etc are true and plus ive drawn ZERO conclusions from that and have only placed it there for others to ponder over witout MY interpretation.

and no your not stupid. in shin megami tensei, he DOES kill multiversal beings and beings beyond that. i provided scans for validity. if you have a problem with him doing that then take it up with the game developers and capcom. im no responsible for putting him in nocturne am i? now if i MISREPRESENTED his appearance in the media than u cud question me, but thats not ur claim nor did i do it.

Shin Megami Tensei is noncanon dude.

all i did was make a case for its cannonity. if you dont agree that is your choice. i never said myself that it was cannon. my exact words were it is PROBABLY cannon. not once did i lie about anything. i only talked about feats IN shin megaten. never said it was fact that theyd hold OUTSIDE it. so where is me hyping up the character or lying?????

Well, thing is, you DID say they were canon, then said Dante could kill anyone from DBZ, and fact is, Dante has not showed the power needed to take down multiverse destroying beings in DMC, which is undebateably canon.

NOT that it is on topic. but just for the record, i never said it WAS cannon. i said it was most PROBABLY cannon.

and those comparisons i made based on DMC feats. it is a FACT that he has battled sky skrapper size deomns. it is also a fact that he single handedly manhandled{and killed} the despair embodied. an abstract being which embodied despair itself. it was known as a true GOD, trancending the normal realm. other than that defeating mundus, the god of the underworld who cud finish the world. plus his general feats. ALL support the fact that he can take DB characters rather easily.

not ONCE did i lie in any of these things. so stop trying to make me look bad, cause my statements still say the same thing.

Originally posted by leonheartmm


so stop trying to make me look bad, cause my statements still say the same thing.

Oh, that ship has sailed a long time ago, my friend. A long, long time ago.

Originally posted by Haruhi
Ignorant.

All it takes is for the fight to exist in the first place, and the outcome is decided -- Aizen chops off Itachi's head long before he can activate any genjutsu.

LMAO, Ignorant u say how many anime fights where u see a dude just cut off the other dudes head? Have u seen Aizen just cut a guys head off that he is about to fight? Now if he knew what Itachi can do yea Aizen would win.

haruhi u pathetic soul. hiding behind the unconnected statements of others is a good way to make yourself feal significant. but only in your own eyes.

as for aizen chopping off itachi's head. no. even if itachi ALLOWS it, all aizen will see is itachi's body disappearing into ravens and feathers. before aizen tsukiyomi's his mind to death.

Aizen has been confirmed as several mutliples stronger than captain level. If you check out the Ichigo respect thread I think you'll find a lot of feats that Naruto characters wouldn't be able to keep up with, and Ichigo is just a little above captain level.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
haruhi u pathetic soul. hiding behind the unconnected statements of others is a good way to make yourself feal significant. but only in your own eyes.

as for aizen chopping off itachi's head. no. even if itachi ALLOWS it, all aizen will see is itachi's body disappearing into ravens and feathers. before aizen tsukiyomi's his mind to death.

You just keep thinking that, scrub. In the end, Aizen curbstomps Itachi with contempt, no matter how much you bullshit what he's actually capable of.

Can someone tell me what chapters Itachi used his different sharingan techniques in? I'd loike to go and review the evidence of what he's done.

Originally posted by Haruhi
You just keep thinking that, scrub. In the end, Aizen curbstomps Itachi with contempt, no matter how much you bullshit what he's actually capable of.

lalala. no evidence. every silly pointless tantrum of yours countered. and just to rectify errors made by your so called "mind", the "stop trying to make me look bad" comment was not directed towards YOU. i wud have to be an idiot to think you can actually make any1 other than URSELF look bad.

if uve got a proper unaddressed argument, precent in civilly. dont try to flame while hiding behind others.

Originally posted by Akuki
Can someone tell me what chapters Itachi used his different sharingan techniques in? I'd loike to go and review the evidence of what he's done.

i dont remember pre shippuden chapters. but the first one was when they had the fight in the inn with sasuke/kisame/itachi/jiraya/naruto.

the second was when in shippuden, naruto was following itachi clone and was caught in his genjutsu.

the other two feats belong to SASUKE'S shaaringan{stated them to elaborate the shaaringan-soul connection}. one was when he entered naruto's soul and supressed the kyuubi. the other one was when he destroyed the dimension in which urochimaru did his mind/soul transfer of body, using his shaaringan, and took contorl of urochimaru's body.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lalala. no evidence. every silly pointless tantrum of yours countered. and just to rectify errors made by your so called "mind", the "stop trying to make me look bad" comment was not directed towards YOU. i wud have to be an idiot to think you can actually make any1 other than URSELF look bad.

if uve got a proper unaddressed argument, precent in civilly. dont try to flame while hiding behind others.

Pot kettle black.. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Sorry to say, buddy, but Itachi just gets cremated.

Originally posted by Haruhi
Pot kettle black.. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Sorry to say, buddy, but Itachi just gets cremated.



stop bawling crybaby.

You guys serious? A NINJA vs a SHINIGAMI? The outcome is obvious

Ok lets sum up this fight. If you look in the Ichigo resect thread you can see how Ichigo has been worked out to have at least mach 35.7 speed, and Aizen exceeds him and easily deals with it. Naruto ninja's still move slower than thrown kunai, and even IF we're saying those move at the speed of a bullet, Ichigo and Aizen both move over 30 times faster than that.
2. Ichigo's power attacks easily exceeds Naruto's attack, after all Naruto's resengan just burst a water tower, Ichigo's shikai attack did this:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/67-17.jpg
that's one of his lesser techniques, and his powers still aren't high enough to match Aizen's medium level minions.
Durability: Aizen takes punches from beings the size of skyscrapers wihtout any effect., and rules creatures that easily plow through just about all of ninja in naruto. The main thing to point out about Aizen is that he has an enormous amount of reiatsu. Now one of the rules of bleach is that when to spiritual forces, for example chakra and reiatsu run together, the stronger one damages the lesser. Now Kenpachi and Byakuya have both shown the ability to completely ignore attacks by powerful mystic weapons that dwarf naruto attacks because their unconcious energy they emit is stronger than that of their attackers focused killing intent. Aizen has been confirmed on panel several times as having a reitsu several multiples higher than any captain. No chakra attack in naruto will be able to penetrate that.
Also according to vs. forum rules both opponents are given forewarning of each others basic abilities. Aizen is still able to function very easily in a fight against Itachi for the simple fact that shinigami have shown the consistent ability to locate their enemies via their soul energy, which would also make shadow clones useless against him. Itachi on the other hand has to have his eyes open at all times in order to survive against Aizen since without his sharingan he's even more screwed than he was before. Also I would like to make the point that i don't feel the sharingan would even work against Aizen. The sharingan works by tracing the flows of chakra within the body in order to allow the user to preemtively see the move that is coming. However it has proven that it can't see through attacks by beings of pure chakra(such as when sasuke was unable to sense the way in which the 9 tailed fox chakra was ging to move) Since Aizen is a being of pure spiritual energy, the same applies to him to an even greater extent.
Finally Aizen has complete air superiority, and can easily blast Itachi from the air while Itachi wastes his energy dodging him. In the end Aizen is far faster than Itachi, can easily counter Itachi's most powerful moves, is invulnerable to any attack itachi can throw at him, and Itachi's sharingan can only be used for a short period of time before he becomes drained.

bump

Leon you really don't have the debating skills or cred to insult anyone elses.

well from what i can see, the guy was hiding behind the arguments of others, making NONE of his own, countering NONE, and insulting me at every oppurtunity he cud get with one liners. that makes him nuthing more than a flamer. and my debating skills and credibility are not nulled simply by your oppinion of me.

your drawing conclusions of speed based on assumption after assumption. even though each assumption has evidence and feats to back it up, if you jump from one to another, by the multiplication factor the uncertainty in feats increases exponentially.
let me give you an example. in the zabuza arc, kakashi was able to dodge an attack of zabuza where zabuza moved instantaneousy from the length of haf a footbal field away to where kakashi was. later kakashi showed to toy with that speed withzabuza. he was atleast over 2x faster than him. zabuza said that haku was far superior than him in all aspects. {disreguarding the super high end lightspeed panel feats of haku as they are too PISy to include even in examples}. even by a conservative comparison that is over 2x zabuza speed. and sasuke was able to counter it without his shaaringan and with it{1 dot} naruto with hardly any kyuubi chakra{remember, he was VERY weak in the zabuzaarc even with the chakra} easily cumberstomped haku in speed.
that puts naruto at over 2 times{again very conservative estimates} the speed of haku.

in the chuunin arc, they all got much stronger. sasuke with partial cursed sal activation was able to move far faster than his previous speed character could comprehend{as he had lost earlier to lee who he cud not even see in the fight} and as lee cudnt even touch the guys there. the sound opponents easily indicated that their attacks were the speed of sound. and sasuke dodged them while carrying naruto and sakura without breaking a sweat. that easily puts his speed up at over 4-5x times that of his appeance in the zabuza arc. next we saw lee without weights on panel move faster than any naruto character had done until then. even gaara's sand protection was failing against him. he was able to move the entire length of the chuunin stadium before gaara could blink, multiple time. even kakashi with his shaaringan was impressed, and this was after seeing zabuza arc naruto/sasuke. his speed easily trumped first time seal activation sasuke by 3-6x times{again im being conservative}. NOW he opened the 5 gates and his speed turned from superhuman to godly and he was around 10x faster than his non weight speed{seeing as how many times he could now hit gaara before gaara cud react}. and yet 3 dot shaaringan kakashi cud still see it.

if we compre this with sasuke{who had already acheived beyond lee speed and was stil trumped by itachi with a single wave of the hand} who CUDNT percieve naruto after hsi FIRST tale grew out and had to unleash curse mark 2 to counter it, then we can see that defection arc sasuke with curse mark 2 was a lot faster than lee with his first time at opening the 5 gates. easily 2-3x faster.

now i havent considered MANY pre chuunin feats here which cud make the cut but lets look at where we started from. buy any conservative estimate. zabuza travel atleast 200 metres in 1/4th of a second{about 800m/s}

and sasuke at the end of the defection arc travels 800x2x2x2x4x3x2x10x10= 1536000 m/s or mach 4654.45

{i wudnt go on to the VASTLY greater shippuden feats cause i think any1 wud get the point im making}

does ANY1 here really believe that sasuke pre shippuden cud travel at over 1.5 million metres/sec????????? i dont "think" so.

in themselves those are respectable feats and extrapolation. but if you jump from one to the other, then your gonna get illogical results. if your gonna judg bleach that way. then do the same with naruto. which has better feats and a LOT more of them. overall, logicall, in individual feats, naruto characters trump bleach characters in overall speed.



nope, it creates shockwaves compared to mini nukes against chidoriwhen its power is released, and creates craters as large as medium meteors wud make when coupled with PARTIAL wind element and wind element alone destroyes a small mountain which stretches almost till the closer horizon on panle. raasengan is concentrated power as opposed to explosion.



doesnt matter, try and go by individual consistant feats.otherwise the same problem arises as i described before.





first of all, you shudnt make statements like "PLOW THROUGH ALL NARUTO NINJAS" that is unsupported bias. because you havent proven it. even weaker akatsuki like kisame/diedara have fought bijuu/jinshuuriku which are not only larger than sky scrappers but are also more powerful than a simple zanpakuto and can level areas the size of small forests with singular attacks{even shukaku did}. they pale in comparison to itachi. its admitted that aizen has significant reitsu. but then itachi has enormous chakra. greater than urochimaru/sandaime hokage/jiraya/diedara etc. and the weapons strength has never been shown to Dwarf naruto weapons. plus, naruto character dont USE many special weapons let alone RELY on them. their power doesnt come from zanpakuto. chakra attacks in naruto have plowed through mountains, destroyed football fiield area places in singular attacks, changed landscapes, and whatnot. bring in diedara and his c-3 attack alone{his weakest c- against gaara} created a BLAST{not AFFECTIVE demolition area which causes destruction but the core BLAST} which was larger than 1/4th of a small CITY against gaara. and would destroy the entire sand village{which is the size of a city}. later in his self sacrifice jutsu, he creates a blast which DWARFED small mountain ranges and was over 315 kilometres in area and over five time as tall as it was wide.{again the destruction area is MUCH greater, this was just the core BLAST}.

the 4 tails can create a single chakra blast{one of many} which can penetrate through 4 rashamon gates. so no no amount of reitsu is gonna protect aizen. and remember that sasuke took a c-4 and continued fighting.




it takes time for aizen to locate people, and youve forgotten that kage bunshin each have a portion of the chakra distributed evenly among them. aizen is not gonna be able to find itachi. plus, your merely choosing the version of shaaringan which you see fit. ive already told you that itachi's shaaringan has been proven on panel to work at the level of the soul. the chakra stopping of naruto didnt even work against a normal genjutsu cast by itachi CLONE.there are three different explanations of shaaringan. and itachi has used his shaaringan on beings with incredible chakras like urochimaru and kakashi. tsukiymi works on the soul and is undispelable. aizen doesnt have a prayer{although it is fair to say that NEITHER have shown their true power yet}. sasuke was unable to see the chakras movement in precog BECAUSE he was not powerful enough with his shaaringan and because the chakrawas very powerful and had a MIND OF ITS OWN other tyhan naruto's body on which he was focuding becuse he cud not concentrate on two different attacks from two different uber level foes at the time. after he turned into his form 2 cursed seal he CUD see naruto and countered his attacks.

as far as air superiority goes, it is simply untrue, even naruto could change direction midflight with just his kyuubi CHAKRA in his fight against neiji{look at the frame where neiji throws shuuriken at him and just before they hit midflight, he rushes of in the other direction}, same with chuunin level rock lee who was practically teleporting in air hitting gaara mid flight hundreds of times before he even hit the ground and bounced like a ping pong ball in the air.

also, itachi is MUCH stronger than any1 mentioned yet and he has his shaaringan on CONSISTANTLY if u pay attention in naruto.

I'll respond to the rest of your post later, but one thing I will say is Kisame is one of the stronger guys in Akatsuki.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well from what i can see, the guy was hiding behind the arguments of others, making NONE of his own, countering NONE, and insulting me at every oppurtunity he cud get with one liners. that makes him nuthing more than a flamer. and my debating skills and credibility are not nulled simply by your oppinion of me.


I've given you multiple feats on why and how strong Aizen was. The same with speed. My argument is the same as others. It was you that constantly ignored them and have posted deliberately wrong information about Naruto. No matter what you try to bullshit, I will call it.

Your debating skills is ass and you have no credibility in this thread. It's obvious by now, you know nothing about Bleach and are clearly an Itachi fanboy.

I just realized this is not the SSvs.Akatsuki thread, so I will not debate in it. Leon's lies hurt too much.

Originally posted by Haruhi
I've given you multiple feats on why and how strong Aizen was. The same with speed. My argument is the same as others. It was you that constantly ignored them and have posted deliberately wrong information about Naruto. No matter what you try to bullshit, I will call it.

Your debating skills is ass and you have no credibility in this thread. It's obvious by now, you know nothing about Bleach and are clearly an Itachi fanboy.

lmao. deluded fantasies do not make you credible enough to be a debater let alone, one with authority or intelligence enough to CALL apparent bs.

every point you gave in the beginning i countered. on top of it every feat you gave was trumped by other feats from naruto and every speed feat you gave, you YOURSELF cud not give rational comparison criteria for to judge against naruto feats.

the significant number of posts that you have recently put here include NO comparisons or evidence whatsoever, nor does this one. so i suggest you stop wasting thread space and flaming. and again, my credibility as a poster is not in the least influenced by the insignificant oppinion of an individual, void of logic coeherence and knowhow. join the crybabies of kmc society or sumthin.

to violoent2dope. kisame isnt anywhere as strong as itachi/urochimaru/pein/tobi etc.{not to mention the wierd plant guy who has disappeared all of a sudden}

Kisame is stronger than Kakuzu, Hidan, Deidara, Sasori, and why do you think Zetsu is stronger? What the hell has he done?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao. deluded fantasies do not make you credible enough to be a debater let alone, one with authority or intelligence enough to CALL apparent bs.

every point you gave in the beginning i countered. on top of it every feat you gave was trumped by other feats from naruto and every speed feat you gave, you YOURSELF cud not give rational comparison criteria for to judge against naruto feats.

the significant number of posts that you have recently put here include NO comparisons or evidence whatsoever, nor does this one. so i suggest you stop wasting thread space and flaming. and again, my credibility as a poster is not in the least influenced by the insignificant oppinion of an individual, void of logic coeherence and knowhow. join the crybabies of kmc society or sumthin.

to violoent2dope. kisame isnt anywhere as strong as itachi/urochimaru/pein/tobi etc.{not to mention the wierd plant guy who has disappeared all of a sudden}

Let's see. I gave you a feat in which Bleach characters could travel miles at a time in an instant. You didn't counter that. I gave you a feat in which Ichigo, who is slower and not as strong as Aizen, is able to cut up thousands of blades in an instant. You didn't counter that. I gave you a feat in which people in Bleach had enough strength that they could casually cut down buildings. You didn't counter that. I explained numerous examples of why you were wrong. You lied about all that. Citing specific examples in the manga, I proved why Itachi hasn't done shit that puts him on Aizens level of badassitude. You didn't counter that, save a bunch of fanboy speculatons you made up. I even pointed out Itachi's weaknesses and times in which even he was outsmarted by people weaker than him. You didn't get on that. And you're getting on my case for not giving you theoretical/hypothetical data? Something that you haven't given me, legitimately? Uh, right. Pot kettle black, buddy. Pot. Kettle. Black.

And BTW, when I say "counter" I mean legitimate examples that happened in the Naruto manga. Not all that bullshit you spew.

Itachi loses, my ignorant friend. He might have had a chance in a discussion, had it not been a one-sided fanboy defending him.

So, again. Aizen by MASSIVE speed blitz.

you were unable to substantiate it was an instant. i asked for validation based on evidence in the manga. you didnt give any. the only person whos actually given an argument for speed based on evidence is akuki. i asked you to substantiate what time frame an INSTANT stood for in the manga but you did not. i asked you to substantiate distance based on evidence, you didnt. in the end youve given NO feat in which bleach characters moved miles in an instant.

on the other hand i have given plenty of feats where zabuza/gate open rock lee and many more have moved similar distances in less than the blink of an eye. stop lying and go back and read your posts and then read mine. countered and done with.



you didnt give the distance he had to travel while doing it, you didnt give the amount of time it took for him to do this. without either of these figures verified, you have no speed estimate against which you can judge against naruto characters. i know for a fact that the scenario your mentioning does NOT take place over the length of miles etc. countered{im merely repeating myself}


good for them. i never said that was untrue. however i did give you several feats on how naruto characters create nuke level and greater damage blast, flames hotter than the core of the sun, destruction of mountains etc while still having more to give and take. countered. naruto destruction>bleach destrtction{as they currently stand on feats}



no u didnt, you tried to answer with humiliating statements having nuthing to do with evidence or logical backing.no examples were cited which cud be put on stats against naruto based on evidence. i substantiated each instant by quoting the event in question. i never lied. its your inability to accept sound logical statement backed by evidence and preferring to call them speculations when infact i stated exactly why i thought it was the way it was based on on panel feats. you NEVER proved that itachi has not done anything, save for the ridiculous example where you said that he was WEAKER than jiraya{which wud be laughed at by any person who knew naruto} whne infact he surpassed his highest jutsu at the time and was explicitly quoted to not be TRYING to start a war or kidnapp naruto when it wasnt necessary.

the only reason your supporting aizen is because your a fanboy impressed by his level of BADASSITUDE, similar to hellsing fanboys claiming he can take on surfer. im sorry, you have proven absolutely nuthing.



weakness? he has never shown weakness other than perhaps being a little tired after using the mangekyo shaaringan thrice in the frame of a few hours. all his feats currently are strength feats where he destroyes the opposition. quote me a few of these non existing WEAKNESSES on panel before you make such silly claims. he has never been outsmarted. if he has, give examples.



lol, says the man who claims itachi has on panel weaknes examples and places where he has been OUTSMARTED when no such instances exist in the manga. i have given feats and evidence to back up my arguments. do yourself a favour and hold on to whatever remnants of dignity you might have left here.


lol, in a thread filled only by bleach fanboys and flamers, that comment hardly has significance. stop bawling you little baby.


only in your wet dreams.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you were unable to substantiate it was an instant. i asked for validation based on evidence in the manga. you didnt give any. the only person whos actually given an argument for speed based on evidence is akuki. i asked you to substantiate what time frame an INSTANT stood for in the manga but you did not. i asked you to substantiate distance based on evidence, you didnt. in the end youve given NO feat in which bleach characters moved miles in an instant.


I told you.. many times. When Ukitake performed the Shyunpo in front of Ganryusai, he commented "Ah, I see you're able to travel many miles in an instant." In fact, Ukitake did the Shyunpo and came back RIGHT after. There's your instance. It must be nice to live in a world where you only listen to yourself.



wrong. wrong, wrong my igorant friend. Zabuza has never demonstrated superior body movement. Rock Lee, I admit, is damn fast, especially w/his weights off, but he ALSO didn't move on the level that Bleachers do. Your point is full of lies, therefore, not a legitimate counter. Moving on...



Read above. And you don't know shit about Bleach. Don't pretend to think I know nothing about it when you have yet to counter any Bleach feat. All you're doing is arguing for Naruto, without an idea of who the other faction is.




Again... why does ANY of that matter, when all Aizen has to do is blitz him with superior speed? More collateral damage =/= victory.



Let's see. genjutsu affecting the soul? Lies. Manga never stated that. Somebody traveling through countries in an instant? Never stated. Itachi actually being stronger than Jiraiya? Never been proven. Though, to be absolutely HONEST, I do think Itachi is a bit above Jiraiya... unfortunately, that's not relevant. Itachi still wimped out, so whatever on that. What else have you spewed that was blatantly not stated in the manga and/or is just not true? In terms of what was SEEN, Itachi has NOT done as much as Aizen has. That's not my opinion. That's just how it is. If you've seen Bleach, you would agree. Itachi has shown various limits. Aizen... has not.




Everybody here has given you an example of why Bleachers operate on a higher scale than Naruto. You're alone for a reason here -- because you're wrong.

BTW, who ever said Hellsing can take on Silver surfer is pretty damn stupid. SS can travel across, through and around time with his board and has cosmic energy... No way Alucard can possibly take on all that. OTOH, the gap between Itachi and Aizen, while not as big, is still noticable.




Kakashi has outsmarted Itachi in their little skirmish. It involved usage of Kagebunshins. watch the episode. And opposition? What opposition did he destroy that was so great? Let's see... he punked Naruto with his genjutsu... that's not impressive, because Naruto isn't that skilled in combating it in the first place. He owned Kakashi, an artificial Sharigan user with his TRUE Sharingan eyes... something even Kakashi admitted was the worst case scenario. He beat up his little brother... not that impressive. He burned a hole through a stomach... impressive, but not all that useful against Aizen.



He was shown retreating. That's a weakness. He even shows signs of fatigue after using his techniques. If he's as badass as you wank him to be, why isn't he owning Jraiya, Naruto and everybody and just take the Kyuubi? GEE, I wonder.

It's just too fun talking with you. Please make up more BS so we can pick it apart.

just once. and the japanese dub didnt say MILES. furthermore, theres no way to measure INSTANT. specially seeing that every1 is in agreement that it isnt teleportation. nice try





lmao. he instantaneously moved from a position where he was barely visible to narutoparty to between their standing on defence back to back without any1 noticing and without kakashi even blinking. other than that he moved the length of approximately a footbal field to instantaneousy end up on top of his sword as it stuck in a tree right after he THREW it. and he moved at the last instant. this ridiculous post is evidence enough to see that you know NUTHING about naruto. and the second statement is a disproven bias on which no argument can be based. rock lee has been shown on panel to be verifyably faster than most bleachers. i have not lied. stop throwing another tantrum.





way to avoid a point. you know darn well i was countering allegation that bleach destruction>naruto destruction. your doing nuthing but ytwisting the argument. also, that statement is disproven ass aizen never have been shown a verifyable on panel feat which is faster than itachi.





your lying. it was stated by itachi. and ive given extensive evidence of sasuke shaaringan/kyuubi supression and itachi's own words. if your gonna lie, atleast try it with some tact. the first statement is a total and utter lie. there is also the fact that sasuke destroyed the dimension of urochimaru's soul with his shaaringan. stop being idiotic.

its a well known fact that itachi is stronger than the sannin. urochimaru admitted it AND lost to him. travelling through countries was seen in the fight with hidan kakuzu as they had to get to the akatsuki hideout and drop off the money. itachi never ran away. if your not gonna listen to lgic than thats your problem. he STATED that he wasnt there to start a war or fight if he cud avoid it. plus he said he didnt need naruto then. there is also the fact that he surpassed jiraya's strongest jutsu who admitted that he BARELY stopped them from hurting them. also if jiraya is so powerful, then why didnt he try to fight with kisame as he stood in fornt of itachi kicking sasuke's ass. itachi has shown no limits. after using mangekyo techniques 3 times he was a little tired. aizen has shown limits in his unwillingness to engage yamato or avoiding it atleast. he hardly has any feats. the few that are are impressive but dont put him at itachi level.






no, there were others, but they cudnt be bothered anymore. seeing as you rinse and repost old countered arguments again and again as if theyr new. its a cycle of stubborness and a debating tactic of the worst on kmc like JIA and GS, WHOB. all those examples have been countered to one point or another. bleachers currently operate on a lower scale then naruto.



tell that to the fans. its sorta like telling you about naruto feats{and we both know how that turns out}





kakshi "outsmarted" him? . it was itachi CLONE. unable to use his mangekyo shaaringan. a clone that only had 30% of his chakra. and in his own words the original had infinitely more chakra then the clone. it was also at only 30% of his strength level. plus the clone was admitted by both itachi and pain to be a DISTRACTION.

still it genjutsues naruto who CUDNT dispell it by shutting down his chakra circulatory system. and it took the brunt of the entire team and naruto's great raasengan{and a sizeable crater in the ground} to destroy him. plus he cast genjutsu on a naruto that wasnt even looking and he did it just by pointing a finger.

real itachi killed his entire clan, trumped kakashi at the level of the soul, burned through a stomach who cud take teh strongest mystical fire{by a jutsu which burns for a week and burns hotter than the sun}. he has also tuned into raven and teleported AFTER letting sasuke impale him with his extended chidori.





lmao. countered. go up and read. your inability to understand is not a sign of itachi's weakness.



must be easy for a person who lives in it.

Aizen has the supreme advantage since the top power levels of Bleach is waaaay higher than the top power levels in Naruto.

Though your messing with the Sharingan, and it can see through any genjutsu it's come up against. Aizen's main power is total illusion, something that one might assume is really just not going to work. IF i am right in that prediction, it depends on if Aizen looks Itachi in the eye or not.

p.s When Aizen 'stops' Ichigo's kuroi getsuga with a finger..... What you must remember is all witnesses to that attack are under total illusion, so you can't say Aizen actually stopped the attack.

Anyways, i'm a fan of Naruto not stupid 99%+ chance Aizen Wins

untrue. read back to find out why

No, read the SS vs. Akatsuki thread to find out why Bleach>Naruto in power.

Hmmm, how about this, i'm going to say things, and you disproof them (not deny or ignore) then i'll drop it

1) Sharingan gives Itachi better reflex's than Aizen

2) The Sharingan can see things no normal eyes can, makeing the 'total illusion' worthless

3) Itachi's Jutsu's are more powerful and effective that Aizens Arts

4) Aizen can move faster than Itachi

5) Itachi has no real way of dealing with the sword

6) Itachi will not be affected by Aizens reistu

7) If Aizen looks into Itachi's eyes, he has lost

8) Itachi is cooler than Aizen

9) Aizen is not attractive, unlike Itachi

Yay finished, I know i'm asking you to repeat yourself, but I'm writing it how i see it, you either can disprove me, or i'm right, it's that simple.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
untrue. read back to find out why

Pweez i'm begging you, i read ALL of Akatsuki vs Soul Society, don't make me read this :'(

im finding it hard to understand what your asking and WHICH poster yor referring to. those points have both pro itachi and anti itachi arguments. do you want me to PROVE each one or disprove each one.

I want you to disprove the points that are not true in your eyes, thats all. That is how i see this fight, so i thought it best i be honest, even if i'm only a half wit

(yes, 8 & 9 are jokes, but i'll laugh if you challenge me on them)

1. true, shaaringan has precognition/telepathy/analysing ability/ability to see the flow and control of mystical energy etc. kakashi pre shippuden was able to use it to easily see the movement of 5 gates lee who was practically teleporting going many many times the speed of sound.

2. true. aizen's illusions were not prefect. nor were they extremely powerful. they merely worked by controlling the five human senses. and they did not go up against any illusion killer. and even tosen who merely did not have SIGHT was unaffected by them. like controllable hallucinations working on the senses. shaaringan has seen through far more powerful illusions and works on the soul.

3. curently yes. even though he hasnt shown much, the people he has defeated are some of the best and have surpassed many awesome techniques. even comparitively, weaker akatsuki like diedara etc have shown far more impressive techniques than any1 in the current bleachverse. and tsukiyomi/amaterasu etc are superior than aizen's stats or kidou/zanpakuto shikai.

4. no evidence to suggest it. no evidence to suggest bleach speed>naruto speed or vice verse currently. itachi has easily countered attacks by bloodlust sasuke with the speed of lee with his weights off etc.

5. yes he does, any number of defensice jutsus or offense+ speed. people much weaker than him do more damage with their hands than shinigami with their zanpakutos

6. untrue, itachi WILL be affected by aizen's reitsu just as yamato would be. but he will simply overpower it with his strength and chakra.

7. true. even the kyuubi had to kneel to the power of sasuke's shaaringan

8. i dunno about this. aizen is prolly COOLER in the traditional sense but then again he isnt anywhere as deleiciously evil/cruel/scary as itachi. itachi's cruelty and will is what i like most about him

9. the women will prolly differ.

i really do suggest you read the whole debate before you start potentially flipping out on the points made and question them{or give a chance to some not so intelligent people to simlpy restate their arguments on a new page as if they were new}

8. Itachi can never do what Aizen did with Hueco Mundo. Aizen is much more badass. He has a fraking throne room for christs sake!

9. Itachi is gay.

Originally posted by Remindme
Hmmm, how about this, i'm going to say things, and you disproof them (not deny or ignore) then i'll drop it

1) Sharingan gives Itachi better reflex's than Aizen

2) The Sharingan can see things no normal eyes can, makeing the 'total illusion' worthless

3) Itachi's Jutsu's are more powerful and effective that Aizens Arts

4) Aizen can move faster than Itachi

5) Itachi has no real way of dealing with the sword

6) Itachi will not be affected by Aizens reistu

7) If Aizen looks into Itachi's eyes, he has lost

8) Itachi is cooler than Aizen

9) Aizen is not attractive, unlike Itachi 1. Agreed.

2. Not really, it just sees every detail, which is pretty much the same thing you just stated as it allows them to predict movements much easier.

3. Aizen destroyed a giant Hollow easily with a Kido that didn't even have an incantation, which makes it weaker. The only jutsu Itachi has that beats Aizen's Kido is Amatseratu.

4. Definately. Bleach characters are much faster than Naruto. Shunsui and Ukitake went several miles in an instant and with one leap. There's a scan a couple or more pages back that proves this.

5. Pretty much, yeah.

6. You can't prove it. His Reistu is more than twice that of a Shinigami captain, it could very well bring Itachi to his knees, but I won't debate this part since I can't prove it will either.

7. No, only if he has the Mangekyo Sharingan on, and Itachi will need to use Tsukiyomi.

8. Itachi wears nail polish. I win.

9. I'm straight.

Itachi's a ***.

who paints thier toes and fingers and you know you're gonna be fighting all of your life, probably women too!

About point #9 Itachi is defiantly considered sexier no contest

Just a question, does this work by powers alone, or do you include the character habits? say for example...Ichigo always tests the water before using bankai, so in debates like this do you include that?

He's still a f@g........

And I don't know.

You know after reading deeper into the Hueno Mundo arc I no longer think that Aizen loses this match. Simply by orders of comparison from Ichigo to Grimjow then Aizen.

If Ichigo's Bankai puts him on even-slightly faster than Naruto high teirs characters then Aizne seems to have a much larger speed advantage than I belived he did from merely reading the Soul Society Arc. Its mostly cause I see Itachi getting tired much faster than Aizen because bleach characters seem to have more battle stamina.

I still think he loses if he meets Itachi's eyes, but Aizne has actually gotten more impressive to me now.

His clothes are badass also.