Akatsuki v.s. The Soul Society

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Last Fre3lancer
Akatsuki:
Itachi
Kisame
Deidara
Hidan
Kakuzu

Soul Society
Sosuke Aizen(Before he left the SS)
Kenpachi
Byakuya
Toshiro
Kaname

Takes place in Karakura town High

Violent2Dope
Aizen would beat Itachi, that's a well known fact, Kenpachi cuts buildings in half, and is fast for a dude who can't use flash steps and fights more ferociously than Kisame, Byakuya is faster than Deidara and a better fighter, and his Initial Release would tear him to pieces, Hidan may be immortal, but he is also slow and Toshihiro could freeze him and then shatter his body. Kakuzu could provide problems for Tosen, but since all of Kakuzu's partners are dead(cept Hidan who is just as good as) so is he. Soul Society in a curbstomp of galactic proportions.

ladov52014
honestly i would think soul society but considering the place its akatsuki cause they have limited energy and even if energy was released still think akatsuki cause they would be heartless while soul society they would be alll i can't die run away PLUS what about pein the the leader and tobi **** add them cause they are akatsuki and they will win...

Last Fre3lancer
I forgot to mention they have those power limiters off.

Itachi v.s. Sosukemessedosuke can create better illusions than Itachi, and if Itachi notices the illusion, it cannot be broken sinse Aizen has full capability over it, and Sosuke's spells and flash steps can kill Itachi with relative ease.

Kenpachi v.s. Kisame: Kisame's Water jutsus may be a problem for Kenny, but he'll survive it easily and it'll all come down to sword against sword, and Kenny pretty has that covered.

Byakuya v.s. Deidara: Byakuya's Senbonzakura it much to fast for Deidara to keep up with. It will cut through all of his clay creations and eventually kill him.

Toshiro v.s. Hidan: Hidan may have that immortality thing, but he just needs to be frozen by Shiro's zanpakuto and then be shattered into bits by a powerful kido spell.

Kaname v.s. Kakuzu: Kaname night have trouble fighting him in his first release, but if he uses Bankai which cuts off senses exept for touch, he will be able to do massive damage without any resistance.

Soul Society wins.

Violent2Dope
Soul Society team run away? Lol. Aizen is a megalomaniac who is fearless according to his Espada. Kenpachi has ZERO sanity and would love nothing more than to die in battle. Byakuya is a gay f@g, tho he still won't run away. Toshiriro is a genius and has been in life and death situations before, and Tosen is...well Tosen. He didn't put Pein and Tobi cause what they can actually do is still not known.

Last Fre3lancer
Ditto.

leonheartmm
soul society loses. big time. maybe they would have stood a slightly better chance with ichigo and yamato in it. still loses with their current power.

btw, aizen will lose to itachi. its a well known fact. and all the other akatsuki are being severely uneretimated here. so is their speed. naruto characters are on the same speed level as bleach.

Aizen
Aizen and Kenpachi would kill them all!

leonheartmm
untrue, both will die horrible deaths.

Last Fre3lancer
Nope, Aizen and Kenpachi kills all.

BlaxicanHydra
Stop spamming the topic, Fre3lancer 313

Last Fre3lancer
Shut up. I was on topic.

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
Nope, Aizen and Kenpachi kills all.
Originally posted by Aizen
Aizen and Kenpachi would kill them all!

no deidara kills all with his self-made bomb

BlaxicanHydra
Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
Shut up. I was on topic.

That wasn't 131

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by leonheartmm


btw, aizen will lose to itachi. its a well known fact.

How is it a fact, when it never even happened?

We haven't seen all of Akatsuki, but from what I've seen Soul Society takes it.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by leonheartmm
soul society loses. big time. maybe they would have stood a slightly better chance with ichigo and yamato in it. still loses with their current power.

btw, aizen will lose to itachi. its a well known fact. and all the other akatsuki are being severely uneretimated here. so is their speed. naruto characters are on the same speed level as bleach. The Soul Society team actually have the perfect guy to take out Itachi with no effort at all: Tosen. His Bankai will remove all senses except for touch from him, it's not an illusion, more like a shroud, and Itachi can't take a sword to the midsection like Kenny to grab the sword and dispel it. Byakuya could use his Bankai to attack several Akatsuki members at once, Toshihiro freezes Hidan and shatters him(immortal my ass), Kenny has superior sword skills, is more fercious in battle, stronger, and more durable than Kisame who has superior speed and has his Jutsus, but Kenny also is a good tactician shown in his fight with Tosen and could beat him. Byakuya could also use his Bankai to hit all of Kakuzu's hearts at once, while Aizen disposes of Deidara(weakest guy in fight IMO) with ease.

Last Fre3lancer
Thank you.

Crimson King
Pfft.... Any one of the Bleach team can solo the Akatsuki. Their speed and power are beyond anything in Naruto.

Warmonger
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
The Soul Society team actually have the perfect guy to take out Itachi with no effort at all: Tosen. His Bankai will remove all senses except for touch from him, it's not an illusion, more like a shroud, and Itachi can't take a sword to the midsection like Kenny to grab the sword and dispel it. Byakuya could use his Bankai to attack several Akatsuki members at once, Toshihiro freezes Hidan and shatters him(immortal my ass), Kenny has superior sword skills, is more fercious in battle, stronger, and more durable than Kisame who has superior speed and has his Jutsus, but Kenny also is a good tactician shown in his fight with Tosen and could beat him. Byakuya could also use his Bankai to hit all of Kakuzu's hearts at once, while Aizen disposes of Deidara(weakest guy in fight IMO) with ease.

Itachi points finger at Tosen. Tosen is dead or comatose after getitng stuck in a Genjutsu. Lets face it Genjutsus attack all five senses so being blind doesn't help him there. Hell for all Tosen knows all he is attakcig is just a shadow clone. Once again something special in Bleach is common place in Naruto.

Byakuya could try that but then agian pretty much all the Akatsuki members cna attack all of soul society at one time as well. Hell Kisame and Deidra by themselves could level that entire city in a few moves.

That would pretty much work on Hidan of course there is a better chance that Hidan can tag whitey once and once he does that its pretty much over for him.

Byakuya couldn't kill Renji with his Bankai or that loud mouth guy how could he even damage Kakazu. Keep in mind that Renji is just an ordinary human Kakazu is not even made of flesh and he cna harden himself even further. Also Kakazu cna do everything that Byakuya can do with his Bankai with his regular coils, add in the fact that he can use city leveling masks on his back... well I'm sorry but that is more raw firepower than half of team SS combined.

As for Kisame I don't really know what else he ca do truth be told. Right now all we know is that he can use water jutsus and he has a chakra absorbing sword. Thsoe things inthemselves don't allow you to get into Akatsuki. But lets say that is all he can do. Hell his speed is proably as fast as Ichigo's Bankai any damn way. Combined with the fact that he can use water Jutusus that can easily cause as much damage as Byakuyas Bankai and probably more. I'm willing to bet on Kisame here.

How do you figure hat Kenpachi has superior sword skills ichigo beat him and Ichigo hadn't even wielded a sword until his Shinigamai powers were released.

See my above argument on why Byakuya has pretty much no chance of hitting even one of his hearts more over all of them. Not to mention how is he going to avoid dying in a few seconds once Kakazu starts attacking? His speed is nothing speicla in the Naruto world, where as Kakazu's speed is.

Deidra has the least amount of crazy jutusus and speed feats. But he like most of Akatsuki has the power to wipe out the entire team in one shot. If you don't belive me see his fight with Gaara if not for the KazeKage the hidden sand village would be smoking crater. So while this is the one match up that is favorable to SS it really is still Akatsuki's game to lose.


Akatsuki wins without much effort.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Warmonger
Itachi points finger at Tosen. Tosen is dead or comatose after getitng stuck in a Genjutsu. Lets face it Genjutsus attack all five senses so being blind doesn't help him there. Hell for all Tosen knows all he is attakcig is just a shadow clone. Once again something special in Bleach is common place in Naruto.

Byakuya could try that but then agian pretty much all the Akatsuki members cna attack all of soul society at one time as well. Hell Kisame and Deidra by themselves could level that entire city in a few moves.

That would pretty much work on Hidan of course there is a better chance that Hidan can tag whitey once and once he does that its pretty much over for him.

Byakuya couldn't kill Renji with his Bankai or that loud mouth guy how could he even damage Kakazu. Keep in mind that Renji is just an ordinary human Kakazu is not even made of flesh and he cna harden himself even further. Also Kakazu cna do everything that Byakuya can do with his Bankai with his regular coils, add in the fact that he can use city leveling masks on his back... well I'm sorry but that is more raw firepower than half of team SS combined.

As for Kisame I don't really know what else he ca do truth be told. Right now all we know is that he can use water jutsus and he has a chakra absorbing sword. Thsoe things inthemselves don't allow you to get into Akatsuki. But lets say that is all he can do. Hell his speed is proably as fast as Ichigo's Bankai any damn way. Combined with the fact that he can use water Jutusus that can easily cause as much damage as Byakuyas Bankai and probably more. I'm willing to bet on Kisame here.

How do you figure hat Kenpachi has superior sword skills ichigo beat him and Ichigo hadn't even wielded a sword until his Shinigamai powers were released.

See my above argument on why Byakuya has pretty much no chance of hitting even one of his hearts more over all of them. Not to mention how is he going to avoid dying in a few seconds once Kakazu starts attacking? His speed is nothing speicla in the Naruto world, where as Kakazu's speed is.

Deidra has the least amount of crazy jutusus and speed feats. But he like most of Akatsuki has the power to wipe out the entire team in one shot. If you don't belive me see his fight with Gaara if not for the KazeKage the hidden sand village would be smoking crater. So while this is the one match up that is favorable to SS it really is still Akatsuki's game to lose.


Akatsuki wins without much effort. 1.Really? I could just be a dick and say because Tosen has no chakra Genjutsu will not affect him. Genjutsu's don't turn you comatose, only Tsukiyomi does, which is useless against a blind man as you need to see Itachi's eyes to get caught in it. Also, what if one of SS distracted Itachi, and then Tosen just used his Bankai on him? Itachi will be done for.

2. Kisame level an entire city? My ass, all he can do is make a lake by spitting out water, and he only does that to use his jutsus. Deidara will be dead so fast he won't have time to make a bomb, he's the weakest link in this fight.

3.Not really, with Toshihiro's Bankai he could freeze Hidan with one attack, and Hidan is the slowest dude in this fight, it would not be hard.

4. Renji a normal human? Wtf? He could have easily killed Ganju(asuming that's who you're talking about), and that was his Shikai. Kakuzu is made of flesh dude, he uses a jutsu to harden his skin(which would be easily cut by Kenny, who slices f*cking buildings in half). I think that Kakuzu in this fight will be one of the tougher guys to take out, but most or all of his team will be dead, so it doesn't matter.

5. Kisame is fast, strong, has a good sword, and has powerful water jutsus, but is no match for Kenny. He doesn't even know his Zanpakuto's name, but his swordskills and massive spiritual pressure allowed him to kill the former Team 11 captain and become the new captain. He sliced a building in half, he took Ichigo's sword without a scratch, and the amount of damage it took to make him KO was immense.

6. I will say right now that fight was BULLSHIT! Kenny was beating Ichigo's ass til Ichigo borrowed all his sword's power, then got a bunch of bad cuts in on Kenny. Kenny then showed his full power by removing his eyepatch which seals some of his power, then they dashed towards eachother in one clash, Ichigo fainted by Kenny's stab to the midsection(Ichigo had not bad wounds like Kenny did), and Kenny fell shortly after, but it was not that attack that felled him. It was blood loss, had Kenpachi been at full ower the whole fight, he would have murked Ichigo, even if Ichigo was borrowing all of his swords power. That is why that fight was bullshit.

7. Kakuzu's not that fast mane, Byakuya when he first met Ichigo ran by Ichigo and slashed him, Ichigo didn't even see him attack and could barely see him move, this is when he is in humanworld and his power is reduced to about 1/10. Byakuya's Bankai gives him control of like hundreds of 3 foot long floating blades, he would hit more than one of Kakuzu's hearts.

8. Too bad he dies before he can even use one of his big bombs(that would also kill him and his team btw).

Overall, Bleach characters are just plain stronger than Naruto ones.

Warmonger
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1.Really? I could just be a dick and say because Tosen has no chakra Genjutsu will not affect him. Genjutsu's don't turn you comatose, only Tsukiyomi does, which is useless against a blind man as you need to see Itachi's eyes to get caught in it. Also, what if one of SS distracted Itachi, and then Tosen just used his Bankai on him? Itachi will be done for.

2. Kisame level an entire city? My ass, all he can do is make a lake by spitting out water, and he only does that to use his jutsus. Deidara will be dead so fast he won't have time to make a bomb, he's the weakest link in this fight.

3.Not really, with Toshihiro's Bankai he could freeze Hidan with one attack, and Hidan is the slowest dude in this fight, it would not be hard.

4. Renji a normal human? Wtf? He could have easily killed Ganju(asuming that's who you're talking about), and that was his Shikai. Kakuzu is made of flesh dude, he uses a jutsu to harden his skin(which would be easily cut by Kenny, who slices f*cking buildings in half). I think that Kakuzu in this fight will be one of the tougher guys to take out, but most or all of his team will be dead, so it doesn't matter.

5. Kisame is fast, strong, has a good sword, and has powerful water jutsus, but is no match for Kenny. He doesn't even know his Zanpakuto's name, but his swordskills and massive spiritual pressure allowed him to kill the former Team 11 captain and become the new captain. He sliced a building in half, he took Ichigo's sword without a scratch, and the amount of damage it took to make him KO was immense.

6. I will say right now that fight was BULLSHIT! Kenny was beating Ichigo's ass til Ichigo borrowed all his sword's power, then got a bunch of bad cuts in on Kenny. Kenny then showed his full power by removing his eyepatch which seals some of his power, then they dashed towards eachother in one clash, Ichigo fainted by Kenny's stab to the midsection(Ichigo had not bad wounds like Kenny did), and Kenny fell shortly after, but it was not that attack that felled him. It was blood loss, had Kenpachi been at full ower the whole fight, he would have murked Ichigo, even if Ichigo was borrowing all of his swords power. That is why that fight was bullshit.

7. Kakuzu's not that fast mane, Byakuya when he first met Ichigo ran by Ichigo and slashed him, Ichigo didn't even see him attack and could barely see him move, this is when he is in humanworld and his power is reduced to about 1/10. Byakuya's Bankai gives him control of like hundreds of 3 foot long floating blades, he would hit more than one of Kakuzu's hearts.

8. Too bad he dies before he can even use one of his big bombs(that would also kill him and his team btw).

Overall, Bleach characters are just plain stronger than Naruto ones.

Of course he has chakra. Everybody has chakra it sjust a name to describe the energy that flows through people. Its probalby not too differnt form the spirit energy they use in bleach or, DZ or any other anime or even Avatar. Don't get too hung up on names. Gnejutsu's can kill. He mihgt not die from it butor evne be comatose but but it doesn't take much for itachi to cast it. But mrerly pointing his finger. While a member of SS is distracting him one of their teamtes is getting double teamed. There is no body onf team SS that cna handle two Akatsuki members at all. Dont forget that Itachi cna create shadow clones so he cna fight more than one member of SS at atime not to mention SS have no way of knowing the real from the fake.


At 1/3 Chakra he turned desert into a lake wihtout any real effort. He doesn't have to spit on the groundhe can spit it at them or but the fac tis that if he did that a couple of times in a city it would be prety much under water. Perhaps Level was too strong a word, but then agian water Jutsus can saw through rock just look at the Sasori fight.

Hidan is not the slowest guy in the fight he is the slowest member of Akatsuki. Kenpachi or tosen are probaly the slowest people in the fight. Though I can see Whitey beating him but I can jsut as easily seeing nailing him instead. Also the only time I've seen him Flash Freeze someone is with his Bnakai and it was anything but instant. By then hidan will have his head.

Yes Renji is a normal human. He is a spirit jsut like eveyone else inSS but heis durablity is no higher than that of aregular human being. He is still jsut skin and flesh like other humans. Kakazu's body is made up of a a bunch flexible cables. Also it doesnt't matter iof he uses a jutsu to harden his fleshno one in SS cna stop him form doing it.

So what if Kenpachi cuts buildings in half. Why didn't he cut Ichigo in half, or Tousen for that matter? For the same reason that Tsunade was albe to Axe kick a crater in the ground but her hits didn't turn Orochimaru into a pile of goo. Cause hitting an inanimate object is nothing but display of power so that the cartoonist can show yo how bad-ass someone is. Byakya was carving up rocks but when he hit ichigo he idn't turn him into dog-meat did he?

Blood loss? Why didn't he faint after Tosen stabbed him through the abdomen he sure lost a lot of blood there. He got beat by a rookie swordsman. I agree that it was cheap cause he should have beat Ichigo but then again Neji should have pummeled naruto, but those are the breaks.

Of course Kakuza is that fast. The average Naruto ninja can do a min equivelant of a flash step. That like FLicker thing that ey do that is seen so often in anime. IT is a big deal in Bleach but inNaruto nearly everyone does it. Rock lee a mere Gnein was able to acheive speeds that actually impressed them. Asuma flickered from whre he was fighitnt Hidan to right behind Shikamaru and Kakuza is even faster than him a Jounin. Everyone in Akatsuki moves insaneley fast you cna see ti in their battles. where as on the SS team only afew people have speeds that cna keep up.
Which is why someone siad that the team owuld have done better with Ichigo cause he is one of the few able to match the speeds of Naruto characters.


He doesnt need hsi big bombs those little spider one s that he sent after Kakashi would be pretty much all he needs.

leonheartmm
itachi's genjustus works at the level of the SOUL, not just the chakra circulatory system.

Haruhi
Soul Society curbstomps Akatsuki. End of story.

Last Fre3lancer
soul Society

Sandai Kitetsu
Tsukiyomi can be avoided by simply closing ones eye's.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Warmonger
Of course he has chakra. Everybody has chakra it sjust a name to describe the energy that flows through people. Its probalby not too differnt form the spirit energy they use in bleach or, DZ or any other anime or even Avatar. Don't get too hung up on names. Gnejutsu's can kill. He mihgt not die from it butor evne be comatose but but it doesn't take much for itachi to cast it. But mrerly pointing his finger. While a member of SS is distracting him one of their teamtes is getting double teamed. There is no body onf team SS that cna handle two Akatsuki members at all. Dont forget that Itachi cna create shadow clones so he cna fight more than one member of SS at atime not to mention SS have no way of knowing the real from the fake.


At 1/3 Chakra he turned desert into a lake wihtout any real effort. He doesn't have to spit on the groundhe can spit it at them or but the fac tis that if he did that a couple of times in a city it would be prety much under water. Perhaps Level was too strong a word, but then agian water Jutsus can saw through rock just look at the Sasori fight.

Hidan is not the slowest guy in the fight he is the slowest member of Akatsuki. Kenpachi or tosen are probaly the slowest people in the fight. Though I can see Whitey beating him but I can jsut as easily seeing nailing him instead. Also the only time I've seen him Flash Freeze someone is with his Bnakai and it was anything but instant. By then hidan will have his head.

Yes Renji is a normal human. He is a spirit jsut like eveyone else inSS but heis durablity is no higher than that of aregular human being. He is still jsut skin and flesh like other humans. Kakazu's body is made up of a a bunch flexible cables. Also it doesnt't matter iof he uses a jutsu to harden his fleshno one in SS cna stop him form doing it.

So what if Kenpachi cuts buildings in half. Why didn't he cut Ichigo in half, or Tousen for that matter? For the same reason that Tsunade was albe to Axe kick a crater in the ground but her hits didn't turn Orochimaru into a pile of goo. Cause hitting an inanimate object is nothing but display of power so that the cartoonist can show yo how bad-ass someone is. Byakya was carving up rocks but when he hit ichigo he idn't turn him into dog-meat did he?

Blood loss? Why didn't he faint after Tosen stabbed him through the abdomen he sure lost a lot of blood there. He got beat by a rookie swordsman. I agree that it was cheap cause he should have beat Ichigo but then again Neji should have pummeled naruto, but those are the breaks.

Of course Kakuza is that fast. The average Naruto ninja can do a min equivelant of a flash step. That like FLicker thing that ey do that is seen so often in anime. IT is a big deal in Bleach but inNaruto nearly everyone does it. Rock lee a mere Gnein was able to acheive speeds that actually impressed them. Asuma flickered from whre he was fighitnt Hidan to right behind Shikamaru and Kakuza is even faster than him a Jounin. Everyone in Akatsuki moves insaneley fast you cna see ti in their battles. where as on the SS team only afew people have speeds that cna keep up.
Which is why someone siad that the team owuld have done better with Ichigo cause he is one of the few able to match the speeds of Naruto characters.


He doesnt need hsi big bombs those little spider one s that he sent after Kakashi would be pretty much all he needs. 1. No, Chakra is biological in the Naruto world, whereas Tosen is a ghost, and they have Spiritual pressure/power, not chakra. They lack the chakra network running through their body. No one in SS that can handle two Akatsuki members? Aizen could solo alot of the team by his damn self with an illusion.

2. He only uses that technique to have water so he can use Jutsus, that is it. The amount of pressure he unleashes has never even been suggested to be able to kill someone. His jutsus will do damage, but not that.

3. Okay, Kenny is not really slow, he just is not as fast on his feet(he can't Flash Step) but his striking speed is still fast and powerful, tho I admit he probably can't run as fast as Hidan. Tosen is not really slow, no idea why you are saying that. How will Hidan lob off his head? Whitey is way too fast, he could just lob off Hidan's arm and then freeze him, and also Whitey's weapon is MUCH longer.

4. This is how I know you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Shinigami(Soul Reapers) all have more strength, speed, and durability than normal humans. To say they are only normal humans is ridiculous. Only the inside of Kakuzu is made of cables, not his whole body, and that jutsu that hardens his skin would be easily cut through by Kenny or Aizen.

5. Maybe it's cause said characters have enough durability to take attacks from them? I can't believe you are trying to say Kenny cutting a building in half is not relevant because they cannot do it in battle, that's stupid. Ichigo has more durability than rocks.

6. Tosens wound was nothing compared to the numerous wounds he should not have suffered in his fight with Ichigo. He was not beat, it was a PIS(plot induced stupidity) filled "draw" that Kenny should have won.

7. Everyone cept Kenny is capable of Flash Step(and he is still above human speed and his striking speed is still fast) and they all move faster than the eye can see. Aizen has become so powerful, he can no longer improve as a Shinigami, he is the fastest guy in this fight most likely. Bleach characters are faster and stronger than Naruto characters. Lee is a Taijutsu prodigy and is faster than many Jonin dude. Kakuzu may be faster than Asuma, but Asuma is not really that fast in the grand scheme of things. The fastest guy on Akatsuki team is probably Kisame.

8. Those would be easily avoided by Aizen, Whitey, Byakuya, and Tosen, whereas Kenny with his uber durability would run through it and lob off Deidara's head.

Akatsuki are nothing in the Bleach universe. Sandai, why don't you participate in this debate?

leonheartmm
chakra at lower levels is biological but when your talking about higher level techniques it ISNT. just like sasuke using the shaaringan to get into naruto's SOUL or itachi attacking a person's SOUL{and yes he cas tsukiyomi on sasuke with his eyes closed}, or using the 9 illusionary dragons jutsu or yondaime's shinigami jutsu.

people have this illusion of power of bleach characters simply cause they live in the SOUL SOCIETY. compare feats for feats, strength/speed/reflexes and naruto characters always come out on top.

the fact that they are shinigami means nuthing cause the attacks they use are often physical and physical barriers{like being blind etc} can CANCEL the so called techniques which work at the level of one's spirit.

akatsuki wins as they currently stand. far too much power and versatility.

leonheartmm
also, in bleach, the greater battle paremeter seems to be speed. it predominates over other characteristics{unlike strength etc. characters with the best speed are always superior} thats why people seem to get that bleech characters are faster than naruto. but just because they are weaker in the other characteristics, doesnt mean naruto characters are inferior in speed.

people are also forgetting kakuzu's masochistic jutsu, there is also the same mystery as aizen about itachi's true power. he has thus far shown to be superior and his shaaringan will null any ordinary zanpakuto illusion and amaterasu will probably rip through the entire opposition. diedara might take the whole opposite team ALONE with his c-4 and/or kamekaze jutsu. the puppet master with his 100 who can take down an entire country, etc etc. and were not even considering the extremely strong and mysterious pein{a guy who casually causes eternal rain to pour around the rain village etc} his female partnet, urochimaru and tobi.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by leonheartmm
chakra at lower levels is biological but when your talking about higher level techniques it ISNT. just like sasuke using the shaaringan to get into naruto's SOUL or itachi attacking a person's SOUL{and yes he cas tsukiyomi on sasuke with his eyes closed}, or using the 9 illusionary dragons jutsu or yondaime's shinigami jutsu.

people have this illusion of power of bleach characters simply cause they live in the SOUL SOCIETY. compare feats for feats, strength/speed/reflexes and naruto characters always come out on top.

the fact that they are shinigami means nuthing cause the attacks they use are often physical and physical barriers{like being blind etc} can CANCEL the so called techniques which work at the level of one's spirit.

akatsuki wins as they currently stand. far too much power and versatility. No, all chakra is biological. What does entering someone's soul do that makes it not? Oh, and no Tsukiyomi never works if the person is not looking in their eyes. Speed: Flash Step allows Ukitake and that other dud travel miles in an instant. Strength: Kenpachi casually sliced a builging in half like it was nothing. Reflexes: Ichigo could defend against Byakuya's attacks despite being much slower(didn't even know Flash Steps yet). While I'm at it Durability: Kenny took Ichigo's sword to the chest without a scratch.

Bleach characters are much stronger than Naruto characters. Ichigo early in the series with his weak but big Zanpakuto defeated a Menos Gillian, which was like 300 feet tall.

Haruhi
Originally posted by leonheartmm
also, in bleach, the greater battle paremeter seems to be speed. it predominates over other characteristics{unlike strength etc. characters with the best speed are always superior} thats why people seem to get that bleech characters are faster than naruto. but just because they are weaker in the other characteristics, doesnt mean naruto characters are inferior in speed.


But they ARE inferior in speed. That's just how it is. And are we watching the same Bleach? Because, from what I've seen, Bleach characters are VERY strong.




Itachi has hypnotized Kakashi, Naruto and Sasuke with his Mangekyou Sharingan. He showed that he is able to perform hand signals quickly. What else has he done that puts him remotely near Aizen's level? Nothing. Aizen cuts off Itachi's head long before the thought of Tsukiyomi even becomes a plausible option for him.



Only one thing... they all get speed blitzed.

Seriously, Bleach is just too fast. When it comes to a bloodlust battle, then that's what it comes down to : Who hits first.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
No, all chakra is biological. What does entering someone's soul do that makes it not? Oh, and no Tsukiyomi never works if the person is not looking in their eyes. Speed: Flash Step allows Ukitake and that other dud travel miles in an instant. Strength: Kenpachi casually sliced a builging in half like it was nothing. Reflexes: Ichigo could defend against Byakuya's attacks despite being much slower(didn't even know Flash Steps yet). While I'm at it Durability: Kenny took Ichigo's sword to the chest without a scratch.

Bleach characters are much stronger than Naruto characters. Ichigo early in the series with his weak but big Zanpakuto defeated a Menos Gillian, which was like 300 feet tall.

untrue. not all chakra is biological. the kyuubi isnt a biological part of naruto and yet its chakra leaks into naruto. entering sum one's soul with shaaringan/chakra proves that shaaringan jutsu works at the level of the souland that chakra based jutsu are not just biological.

tsukiyomi worked on sasuke when he had his eyes closed. plus later, itachi's normal genjutsu worked on naruto when he wasnt looking at itachi simply by POINTING A FINGER.

speed, hidan and kakuzu left the couintry instantaneously. and again, the light speed feat remain. there are many others.

strength, naruto destroyes a waterfall thousands of men's width wide and extremely tall. 4 tails destroyes the entire landscape in second{10s of miles of it} gaaara changes landscapes etc. dont even get me started on diedara's jutsus.

reflexes: shaaringan. sasuke vs one tail. fighting blurs. fighting haku, etc etc

durability: laughing laughing laughing , normal naruto and sasuke surviving mini nuke level clashed of chidori vs shaaringan which left shockwaves as large as a humoungous lake. sasuke surviving diedara's clay attacks. hmmm, again too many feats.

bleach characters are not as strong as naruto characters, even in the chuunin ark naruto defeated shukaku whose single attack could level an entire footbal fields worth of ground. and it was definately larger than any foe ichigo has faught.

Haruhi
Originally posted by leonheartmm
untrue. not all chakra is biological. the kyuubi isnt a biological part of naruto and yet its chakra leaks into naruto. entering sum one's soul with shaaringan/chakra proves that shaaringan jutsu works at the level of the souland that chakra based jutsu are not just biological.


Chakra is biological to the Naruto universe. And Sharingan works against your mind. Not soul. Stop lying.



No, it didn't. And guess what? Before Itachi sticks his fingers out, Aizen cuts if off his his hand.



You do realize that between panels/pages of a manga, time can actually PASS, right? Therefore, that's not a legitimate feat. And light speed is bullshit.



You do realize this isn't a contest of who can tear more landscape up, but rather, who can kill first. In that case, it's Bleach who wins because of their speed.



Reflexes, Ichigo cutting up tens of thousands of sakura blade petals in an instant, all from different angles.



Right... so, that's why Naruto and them can get hurt by simple cuts by kunais. roll eyes (sarcastic)



Oh, wow. A giant raccoon leveled some ground with its big ass body. That's something I should be impressed about?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by leonheartmm
untrue. not all chakra is biological. the kyuubi isnt a biological part of naruto and yet its chakra leaks into naruto. entering sum one's soul with shaaringan/chakra proves that shaaringan jutsu works at the level of the souland that chakra based jutsu are not just biological.

tsukiyomi worked on sasuke when he had his eyes closed. plus later, itachi's normal genjutsu worked on naruto when he wasnt looking at itachi simply by POINTING A FINGER.

speed, hidan and kakuzu left the couintry instantaneously. and again, the light speed feat remain. there are many others.

strength, naruto destroyes a waterfall thousands of men's width wide and extremely tall. 4 tails destroyes the entire landscape in second{10s of miles of it} gaaara changes landscapes etc. dont even get me started on diedara's jutsus.

reflexes: shaaringan. sasuke vs one tail. fighting blurs. fighting haku, etc etc

durability: laughing laughing laughing , normal naruto and sasuke surviving mini nuke level clashed of chidori vs shaaringan which left shockwaves as large as a humoungous lake. sasuke surviving diedara's clay attacks. hmmm, again too many feats.

bleach characters are not as strong as naruto characters, even in the chuunin ark naruto defeated shukaku whose single attack could level an entire footbal fields worth of ground. and it was definately larger than any foe ichigo has faught. 1. Yes it is. To do chakra you need to have it flowing thru your body, Kyuubi is just blocked off from the rest of it. Sharingan does not enter the soul, only the mind, and you need to look in their eyes to do it.

2. No it didn't, that's a bullshit lie. I saw the episode and read the manga, his eyes were open. Also, the finger thing was just a normal Sharingan related Genjutsu, and Aizen will have killed Itachi before he could react. And Sharingan only dispels Genjutsus, Aizen's illusion will work. Tosen would actually kill Itachi easier than Aizen would.

Speed: Hidan and Kakuzu left nothing instantaneously, that's all bullshit. Once again, are you really arguing that Sasuke's fireballs are ANYWHERE near lightspeed?

Strength: None of that is strength, I was talking about physical power.

Reflexes: Sharingan users are the only ones who can match up to Bleach characters in this department.

Durability: Mini nuke? My ass, you know what a nuke is right? Also, no blast was obviously touching them, Naruto characters get cut by kunai, and their punches are nowhere near mini nukes. Sasuke would have died if not for summoning Manda and you know it.

Menos Gillian is even bigger than Shukaku, and they're cannon fodder in present-time Bleach.

Warmonger
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. No, Chakra is biological in the Naruto world, whereas Tosen is a ghost, and they have Spiritual pressure/power, not chakra. They lack the chakra network running through their body. No one in SS that can handle two Akatsuki members? Aizen could solo alot of the team by his damn self with an illusion.

2. He only uses that technique to have water so he can use Jutsus, that is it. The amount of pressure he unleashes has never even been suggested to be able to kill someone. His jutsus will do damage, but not that.

3. Okay, Kenny is not really slow, he just is not as fast on his feet(he can't Flash Step) but his striking speed is still fast and powerful, tho I admit he probably can't run as fast as Hidan. Tosen is not really slow, no idea why you are saying that. How will Hidan lob off his head? Whitey is way too fast, he could just lob off Hidan's arm and then freeze him, and also Whitey's weapon is MUCH longer.

4. This is how I know you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Shinigami(Soul Reapers) all have more strength, speed, and durability than normal humans. To say they are only normal humans is ridiculous. Only the inside of Kakuzu is made of cables, not his whole body, and that jutsu that hardens his skin would be easily cut through by Kenny or Aizen.

5. Maybe it's cause said characters have enough durability to take attacks from them? I can't believe you are trying to say Kenny cutting a building in half is not relevant because they cannot do it in battle, that's stupid. Ichigo has more durability than rocks.

6. Tosens wound was nothing compared to the numerous wounds he should not have suffered in his fight with Ichigo. He was not beat, it was a PIS(plot induced stupidity) filled "draw" that Kenny should have won.

7. Everyone cept Kenny is capable of Flash Step(and he is still above human speed and his striking speed is still fast) and they all move faster than the eye can see. Aizen has become so powerful, he can no longer improve as a Shinigami, he is the fastest guy in this fight most likely. Bleach characters are faster and stronger than Naruto characters. Lee is a Taijutsu prodigy and is faster than many Jonin dude. Kakuzu may be faster than Asuma, but Asuma is not really that fast in the grand scheme of things. The fastest guy on Akatsuki team is probably Kisame.

8. Those would be easily avoided by Aizen, Whitey, Byakuya, and Tosen, whereas Kenny with his uber durability would run through it and lob off Deidara's head.

Akatsuki are nothing in the Bleach universe. Sandai, why don't you participate in this debate?

How do you kow they will be fighitng in Soul Soceity? Or for that matter how do you know it spirit energy works in the Naruto world. Unless other wise stated they are in a neutral world where both their powers work or you are giving them a major handicap I assume that hey are ina neutral settig where all their powers work unless the OP says otherwise. Also Naurto cahracters have techniques that actualy combat illusions, something they don't have in Bleach.
Please Kakazu could solo these guys.

True he has never used it in that manner but I don't see why he can't. Either way turning the battlefeild into a lake is still a major advantage for him. As he can simply trap several SS in Water Sheilds while his party members kill the others.


How will he lob off his head? With his giant Scythe. Why do you keep assuming Whitey is faster, he isn't. At best I'm giving him the huge benifit of the doubt5 and sayign that he is even. But tlets face it Bleach speedsters are fast in a world of normal speed people. Naruto characters are fast in a world of super-fast ninjas. I'm not evne saying whitely is definelty going to lose. Simply that it could go either way depending on how it plays out. My money is on Hidan for what tis worth.


Oh really? Enlgihten me then. Show me where abverage no name Shinigami have super-human strength. Show me where rank and faile Shinigami have super speed. Form the very first episode of Naruto the ninjas where zippping around the city at super-speeds there wasn't one speed feat until Kuchiki Byuakuya showed up. Show me the superhuman abilities of the Shinigami which ar enot named and I'll belive it. I'll save you some time their arent any. Shinigami are about the speed of humans tops. Only the elite LT and up have any sped and even the top, Ichigo, is only faster than these other slow guys.

Of course its meaningless. Do you think Kenpachi has more strength and cutting ability than Renji when Ichigo first came to SS. Of course. Yet Renji was able to cut Ichigo, so doesn't taht mean that Kenpachi should have cut right through him? He is a Captain after all. The answer is that Beating up inanimate objects is pointless unless it works jsut as well on people. So cutting a building in Half is just cinematics to make you go "ohhh this guys is Sh!t" tis meanignless.

Yet he didn't win, he lost. In order to claim PIS you have to show that it is inconsistent with the characters average showings. Up until that fight what showings did Kenpachi have? None this was his first fight and it set the tone so it wasn't PIS. IT isnt' PIS so much as it establishes the Heirarchy. Byakuya>Kenpachi>Tosen?Dog Guy.

Considerng that basic no name ninjas can do a weak flash step. These super-elite ninjas can too... except maybe Deidra. Hell Hidan and Kakazu did one after they were recalled. Faster than which Jounin? How do you know that? He isn't faster than Kakashi or Guy and they were nothing to Akatsuki.

Maybe, Maybe not.

Hey if Chakra doesn't work there then yes. If it does then they easily take that little city over.

Haruhi
Once again, Naruto ninjas shimmering and disappearing is not a speed feat. That's an effect many anime use. Only in Bleach, it's an actual move with a description behind it. Only real speed feet happened when Haku used his water mirror jutsu.

Naruto ninjas are not as fast as you make it out to be. In fact, if they're so damn fast, why does it take them forever to search around the city and surrounding areas? If they're as uber fast as you wank them to be, how is it that they can't just once over a city and find anything? Simply put, they're not that fast. Read comparison of cartoon characters using same effect.

Akatsuki can try so hard and get so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter. (haha)

They get owned. Badly.

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by leonheartmm
bleach characters are not as strong as naruto characters, even in the chuunin ark naruto defeated shukaku whose single attack could level an entire footbal fields worth of ground. and it was definately larger than any foe ichigo has faught.

didn't aizen and gin beat like 10 giant hollows, easily?

Akuki
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
didn't aizen and gin beat like 10 giant hollows, easily?
Aizen has been shown defeating giant hollows with his bare hands with no effort at all.

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by Akuki
Aizen has been shown defeating giant hollows with his bare hands with no effort at all. What, no he hasn't.

Akuki
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
What, no he hasn't.
Actually yes he has, it was shown during Hinamori's recollections of her early days of training. I'll try and find a pic or link of it.

Akuki
Originally posted by Akuki
Actually yes he has, it was shown during Hinamori's recollections of her early days of training. I'll try and find a pic or link of it.
ok I looked it up, it happened in episode 46.

Also if we're equating reiatsu with Chakra, that means that unless naruto characters have overwhelming levels of chkra they wouldn't even be able to get their jutsu's to work on bleach characters as the higher level characters have the ability to ignore any reiatsu attack that is not strong enough to penetrate their unconcious power level. In Aizen's case with his power level even Naruto's wind jutsu would have an enormous amount of difficulty penetrating it.

Sandai Kitetsu
The energy manipulation of Bleach and Naruto is relative, but Bleach is simply greater in scale. Combined with HaDo/KiDo and Zanpaktou (Which utilisizes spirits). They are simply more fearsome, plus Akatsuki is outnumbered. You have to be a serious fanboy to think that they stand a chance.

Sandai Kitetsu
http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_143/bleach-ch143-04.png

http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_143/bleach-ch143-05.png

How exactly will anyone in Akatsuki dodge that kind of attack?

Akuki
Some of his kidou spells were pretty impressive as well, I don't really see any of the Akatsuki surviving the lightning spell through the heart like he did against renji, not to mention the trapping spell.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Warmonger
How do you kow they will be fighitng in Soul Soceity? Or for that matter how do you know it spirit energy works in the Naruto world. Unless other wise stated they are in a neutral world where both their powers work or you are giving them a major handicap I assume that hey are ina neutral settig where all their powers work unless the OP says otherwise. Also Naurto cahracters have techniques that actualy combat illusions, something they don't have in Bleach.
Please Kakazu could solo these guys.

True he has never used it in that manner but I don't see why he can't. Either way turning the battlefeild into a lake is still a major advantage for him. As he can simply trap several SS in Water Sheilds while his party members kill the others.


How will he lob off his head? With his giant Scythe. Why do you keep assuming Whitey is faster, he isn't. At best I'm giving him the huge benifit of the doubt5 and sayign that he is even. But tlets face it Bleach speedsters are fast in a world of normal speed people. Naruto characters are fast in a world of super-fast ninjas. I'm not evne saying whitely is definelty going to lose. Simply that it could go either way depending on how it plays out. My money is on Hidan for what tis worth.


Oh really? Enlgihten me then. Show me where abverage no name Shinigami have super-human strength. Show me where rank and faile Shinigami have super speed. Form the very first episode of Naruto the ninjas where zippping around the city at super-speeds there wasn't one speed feat until Kuchiki Byuakuya showed up. Show me the superhuman abilities of the Shinigami which ar enot named and I'll belive it. I'll save you some time their arent any. Shinigami are about the speed of humans tops. Only the elite LT and up have any sped and even the top, Ichigo, is only faster than these other slow guys.

Of course its meaningless. Do you think Kenpachi has more strength and cutting ability than Renji when Ichigo first came to SS. Of course. Yet Renji was able to cut Ichigo, so doesn't taht mean that Kenpachi should have cut right through him? He is a Captain after all. The answer is that Beating up inanimate objects is pointless unless it works jsut as well on people. So cutting a building in Half is just cinematics to make you go "ohhh this guys is Sh!t" tis meanignless.

Yet he didn't win, he lost. In order to claim PIS you have to show that it is inconsistent with the characters average showings. Up until that fight what showings did Kenpachi have? None this was his first fight and it set the tone so it wasn't PIS. IT isnt' PIS so much as it establishes the Heirarchy. Byakuya>Kenpachi>Tosen?Dog Guy.

Considerng that basic no name ninjas can do a weak flash step. These super-elite ninjas can too... except maybe Deidra. Hell Hidan and Kakazu did one after they were recalled. Faster than which Jounin? How do you know that? He isn't faster than Kakashi or Guy and they were nothing to Akatsuki.

Maybe, Maybe not.

Hey if Chakra doesn't work there then yes. If it does then they easily take that little city over. 1.Well, I think that FL said they were fighting in SS. Sure, why not send them in a world where all powers work, it makes no difference. Fact is, they can only combat Genutsus, not Aizen's illusions.

2. Because it is not even known how much pressure it would do. He can only trap ONE in a Water Shield, as he needs to touch the shield to mantain it, and he will be a sitting duck since he can't move or use the hand making the shield.

3. Yes, Whitey is much faster, and has a much longer weapon(in Bankai form anyway). Bleach speedsters make Might Guy look slow.

4. Sure, how about the numerous times they block the blows of 30 foot hollows with their unsealed swords? That's strength, and to be able to take an unsealed Zanpakuto and cut through the skull of a hollow is hard. Ichigo after becoming a Shinigami jumps long and crosses large amounts of distance in a pretty short amount of time. Ichigo in Bankai form was dodging all of Byakuya's hundreds of swords, which were moving very fast, that's beyond anything a Naruto character has done speedwise.

5. Wow, you really know nothing of Bleach do you? First of all, Kenny in the start of the fight had his eyepatch on, which seals off the large bulk of his Spirit power(which when released spirals all the way above the clouds in a booming DBZ like fashion). Even then he was toying with Ichigo, then Ichigo grew some balls(at first he was afraid of Kenny because of his immense Spiritual Pressure, this is with eyepatch on mind you) and landed a small cut on Kenny, but then Ichigo got cocky, and Kenny walked up to him, and stabbed his sword straight thru Ichigo's(which also broke it in half), impaling him in the chest. Then, Ichigo did some gay plot device, revived himself(fully healed I might add) and his sword, and with his newfound power(he was borrowing all of Zangetsu's, his sword's, power) got MANY bad cuts on a grinning and laughing Kenny. Kenny then removed his patch, revealing his true power, and had one final clash with Ichigo, Kenny stabbed him in the chest while Ichigo barely got his sword thru Kenny's chest, and Ichigo fell, followed by Kenny who only fell due to his massive blood loss. I hope this explains it to you, basically while fighting Kenny he grew much stronger than when he fought Renji.

6. I explained that until the final clash, Kenny was holding back to make the fight last longer, he could have killed Ichigo with ease even with Ichigo borrowing all of Zangetsu's power if Kenny didn't have the Goddamned eyepatch.

7. First of all, for all we know those ninja on the first episode were all Jonin, so don't act like they were weak, they were all adults, so chances are all were Chunin or Jonin, I know for a fact Choji's dad, a Jonin, was there. That whole crossing a country instantly is bullshit, time can take place between manga panels you know?

Sandai Kitetsu
How will they survive this:

http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_148/bleach-ch148-18-19.png

Violent2Dope
Kenny could solo the whole team with the exception of the homosexical Itachi.

Sandai Kitetsu
As for speed:

http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_154/bleach-ch154-14.png

Violent2Dope
In case no one knows this, the above scan Sandai just posted is Yoruichi taking out a whole platoon of Special Corps Shinigami using only speed and H2H combat.

Sandai Kitetsu
Then there is Yamamoto Genryusai Shigekuni:

With his spirit pressure alone, incapasitates Nanao:

http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_155/bleach-ch155-06.png

http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_155/bleach-ch155-08.png

Violent2Dope
Old ass overpowered bastard.

Akuki
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Old ass overpowered bastard.
Check out the one where Aizen does the same thing to Grimmjow.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/M7BleachCh24509.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/M7BleachCh24510.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/M7BleachCh24511.jpg

Sandai Kitetsu
http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_156/bleach-ch156-06-07.png

http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_156/bleach-ch156-08.png

http://www.mangarun.com/bleach/bleach_156/bleach-ch156-09.png

Lord Prime
LMAO just because u dont have chakra dosent mean Genjutsu will not affect anyone in the Soul Society, we have seen Itachi put a woman in Genjutsu to make her like Jiraiya, did she have chakra?

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Lord Prime
LMAO just because u dont have chakra dosent mean Genjutsu will not affect anyone in the Soul Society, we have seen Itachi put a woman in Genjutsu to make her like Jiraiya, did she have chakra?

Yes, all Naruto humans have Chakra.

Violent2Dope
I did not post those big ass f*ckin word quilts for them to be ignored. Prove Akatsuki wins or SS does(not that you'll be able to).

Warmonger
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1.Well, I think that FL said they were fighting in SS. Sure, why not send them in a world where all powers work, it makes no difference. Fact is, they can only combat Genutsus, not Aizen's illusions.

2. Because it is not even known how much pressure it would do. He can only trap ONE in a Water Shield, as he needs to touch the shield to mantain it, and he will be a sitting duck since he can't move or use the hand making the shield.

3. Yes, Whitey is much faster, and has a much longer weapon(in Bankai form anyway). Bleach speedsters make Might Guy look slow.

4. Sure, how about the numerous times they block the blows of 30 foot hollows with their unsealed swords? That's strength, and to be able to take an unsealed Zanpakuto and cut through the skull of a hollow is hard. Ichigo after becoming a Shinigami jumps long and crosses large amounts of distance in a pretty short amount of time. Ichigo in Bankai form was dodging all of Byakuya's hundreds of swords, which were moving very fast, that's beyond anything a Naruto character has done speedwise.

5. Wow, you really know nothing of Bleach do you? First of all, Kenny in the start of the fight had his eyepatch on, which seals off the large bulk of his Spirit power(which when released spirals all the way above the clouds in a booming DBZ like fashion). Even then he was toying with Ichigo, then Ichigo grew some balls(at first he was afraid of Kenny because of his immense Spiritual Pressure, this is with eyepatch on mind you) and landed a small cut on Kenny, but then Ichigo got cocky, and Kenny walked up to him, and stabbed his sword straight thru Ichigo's(which also broke it in half), impaling him in the chest. Then, Ichigo did some gay plot device, revived himself(fully healed I might add) and his sword, and with his newfound power(he was borrowing all of Zangetsu's, his sword's, power) got MANY bad cuts on a grinning and laughing Kenny. Kenny then removed his patch, revealing his true power, and had one final clash with Ichigo, Kenny stabbed him in the chest while Ichigo barely got his sword thru Kenny's chest, and Ichigo fell, followed by Kenny who only fell due to his massive blood loss. I hope this explains it to you, basically while fighting Kenny he grew much stronger than when he fought Renji.

6. I explained that until the final clash, Kenny was holding back to make the fight last longer, he could have killed Ichigo with ease even with Ichigo borrowing all of Zangetsu's power if Kenny didn't have the God damned eye patch.

7. First of all, for all we know those ninja on the first episode were all Jonin, so don't act like they were weak, they were all adults, so chances are all were Chunin or Jonin, I know for a fact Choji's dad, a Jonin, was there. That whole crossing a country instantly is bullshit, time can take place between manga panels you know?

!. Pure Thoery. None of thier Illusions might work but right now we jsut got opinions on that. Considering that Itachi can see through pretyt much any kind of illsuion and even into the soul (I don't know about all that other stuff but it does allow you to look into the soul) I think he won't fall for it. The rest of Akatsuki might be boned though. Unless Itachi kills Aizen frst.

2. Actually he can trap several in a water bubble by using his water clone Jutsu just like when he fought team Guy.

3. Longer weapon yes, faster no. Hidan can fight forever though and where as whitey has to hit him with his main attack for that to work. Hidan only has to nick him.

4. Yet Ganju's spear sends him flying. Theat fruity spirit detective guy was able to block a hollow attack as well. He aint superhuman. Also I'm not talking about ichigo I'm talking about all those nameless Shinigami that run around SS. They never do anything remotely superhuman. No it isn't. Anything that Byakuya could do with his sand Gaara could do with his Sand and Rock lee was able to dodge it. Chiyo was able to make both her and Sakura dodge wave after wave of Sasori's needles which was more numerous than Byauya's flower petals.

5. Yeah I saw the fight I have ti on my hard drive. So waht you call Ichigo using his wepaon's power a Plot Device. HE grew stronger yes but that was after getitn cut down. Yet he didn't cut Ichigo in half before he got his power-up. In fact his power-up didn't seem to affect his ability to cut him at all. So cutting a buidling in half still only gets you so far if it doesn't work on person.

6. Thats not PIS thats CIS. He wasn't puncked so much as he didn't use his full abilites until he had a reason to. So he was just acting in character and paid for it. Which is why I was metnioning Naruto vs Neji as someone getting doped by somethig they should have but they le ttheir guard down.

7. I didnt' say they were all Genin but Chunin is not a big deal in Naruto. Also Iruka was able to perform the same feats. Crossing the the whole country thing, I don't rember vouching for that. I simply indicated their abiltiy to move far with a sinlge movemnt.

Warmonger
Please Gamabunta would wipe the floor with that oversided Suit of Armor. Hell Akatuski atcually takes down POWERFUl gigantic mosnters not some overstuffed Samurai. Diedra could solo that thing.

The Reitsu thing is not impressive at all. Orochimaru did that as his first Gnejutsu. It wouldn't evne faze anyone in Akatsuki.

As for the whirldwind thing that is impressive. I can't say I can place an exact duplicate but I would probably pick Sakura' s fight with Sasori's 100 puppets.

Well if your going to bring the Old man in then SS chances go up significantly.

Warmonger
One of the problems with this debate is that we don't know who will mathc up with who and this determines plety of who might be the victors in thsi match so I'm goign to give a match-up break-down.

Itazchi vs Aizen.
Aizen is still too mcuh of a mystery to add when he displays his real power I'll be better able to judge same thing goes for ITachi. So i'm going to judge them purley on what they've shown.
Itachi 6/10
This is close but like I said Itachi is nearly blind and if you don't see the initial release of Aizen's Napakto then you don't get caught in the Illusion. Though evne if he gets caught his Sharingan will peirce it anyway. If for some reason their powers cancel out and they have to go at it with powers and wepaons this is where Itachi is realy better. Hsi Jutsus are more desttrucive certainly more than that lame ass black cage attack nto to mention that he can easily use shadow cloens to keep Aizen off balance though he sitl ahs to wathc out for Aizens spells and sword and Aizne might have him beat in sheer speed. Tough battle but he has the edge so far.

Itachi vs Kenpachi
Iachi 8/10
I'm not sure how much damage he could really do with his Genjustu to Kenpachi as the man is alreyad pretty warped. I Imagin it'l come down to kunai and and jutsus and Kenpachi is pretyt good in clsoe but ITachi is faster. I imagine this one ends with Kenpachi a walking pinchusion of shurukein and Kunai beofre he finally drops.

ITachi vs Byakuya
Itachi 7/10
Another tough one. But I imagine Byakuya is more vulnerable to Genjutsu than Kenpachi making his job somewhat easier. However he is in danger ofgetting skewred if he doesn't keep moving and good luck getting an Shurukein through those petals. He might have to break out Ameretsu for this one.

Itachi vs Toshiro
Itachi 8/10
Itahci melts all hsi ice attacks iwht hsi fire jutsus and he Whitey is still pretty vulnerable to Gnejutsus and things ask Aizen.

Itahci vs Tosen
Itachi 9/10
The only thing tosen has goign for him is that Bankai, and I don't think that will work on Itachi. Granted all of his Sharingan genjutsu goes out the door, but that doesnt' save Tosen for being shanked preiosn style byt a Kunai.

Kisame vs Aizen
Aizen 8/10
Kisame is another character who hasn't gone all out yet either, I assume there is more to him than jsut a guy who has nice water Jutsus and a sowrd but thats all I got to work with. If that is all he has then I imagine he wont be able to beat his Jutsu. The reason I gve Aizen only 8 is in the case that he doesn't use his illusion then Kisame's chances are better.

Kisame vs Kenpachi
Ksiame 7/10
Man I would pay money to see this fight. I wold love to see the expresison on Kisame's face when he sucks out Kenny's power only to have evnemore spring up. Though I imagine if the fight wore on Kisame is faster is a better sowrdsman and is more versatile giving him a nice advantage.

Kisame vs Byakuya
Byakuya 6/10
There isn't much that Byakuya cna do with his power that Kisame can't mimic with Suiton jutsus. But the ease with which Byakya can do it might be too mcuh for Kisame. Though if Ichigo cna do it then there is a good chance that Kisame can as well.

Kisame vs Toshiro
Kisame 7/10
Ice techiniques probalby won't evne be able to harm Kisame since he is suiton master. Though they might still be damaging This battle could go on a while as the two throw wepaons at each other though Kisame's things like water clones and such ive him the versilitlity edge over Whitey.

Kisame vs Tosen
Kisame 9/10 or Tosen 9/10
This match is a split depending on how Samehada interacts with a Bleahc character if it works like it does in NAruto then tosen is boned as he sword would proably draw out the power Tosen's Bankai. If not then he is pretty much screwed as Tosen kills him at his leisure.

Deidra vs Aizen
Aizen 9/10
No explanation needed really. THough I haven't read the Deidra vs Sasuke fight yet so I dont' know f his eye peice works or not though I'm willgn to bet it doesn't.

Deidra vs Kenapchi
Deidra 8/10
Dedra stays out of his range all day and bombs him to death. TIs gay but its a win.

Dedira vs Byakuya
Deidra 6/10
Thsi fight is a tricky one for deidra but if he cna stay out of Gaara's reach (which is further than anything Byakya has) he cna stay out of Byakuya's. And unlike Gaara Byakuya doen't have any absolute defsnes to protect hism self from deidras's explsoives. Though mayb ehe has plety of speed. I think those little spirder bombs are fast enough. Nto to mention that Deidra's a pretyt good strategist and could get Byakuya near enoguh to a bomb. If not then he dies.

Deidra vs. Toshiro
Deidra 6/10
Kenshiro would put up agood fight but I thin he would evneutally get tagged. Also possible that he hits the bird Deidr'as flying on and brings Deidra down which is a worst case scenerio for Deidra.

Deidra vs Tosen
Tosen6/10
I really do need to see if his eye things works though it might not matter with Tosen. Though Deidra's little bobms mgiht be unaffected.

Hidan vs Azien
Aizen 9/10
Hidna is really too limited to pose much of a threat to Aizen. He might not be able to permanently kill him but decapitaion is not too hard for him.

Hidan vs Kenpachi
Hidan 9/10
Sorry but Hidna could not have asked for a better match up. Why cause Kenpachi is goign to wait for Hidan to cut him not knowig whats coming. He might have to stab hismelf a coulpe of times but eventually Kenpachi goes down.

Hidan vs Byakuya
Byakuya 7/10
While tis not immpossilbe it simply highly unlikely that hidan is ogign to acutally connect with Byakuya. Though it spossible for Byakuya to hit him with this attack and think he is dead and turn his back, other than that Hidan is toast.

Hidan vs Toshirio
Hidan 6/10
Hidan cna win this barely it really depends on his luck with taggin Toshiro and his ability to dodge his attacks of if he cna nick him he can take it. though it could go either way.

Hidan vs Tosen.
Tosen 8/10
Hidan probaly has no real counter to this Bankai he doens't really strike me as smart enought o figure out what Kenpachi did so I imagine he is done.

Kakuzu vs Aizen
Aizen 7/10
ITs hard to call while Kakuzu is vu.nverable to the illusion his masks might not be. Int he end its too much of longshot to hope he could doge the illusion. However any other sort of aphsyical battle is heavily in his favor.

Kakuzu vs Kenpachi
Kakuzu 9/10
This guy can do everythin Kenpahci cna nd thensome. He would lay was to Kenny and pretty much the rest of the city. Even if Ken hit him he still have four lives to spare.

Kauzu vs Byakuya
Kakuzu 8/10
He can attack Byakuya form everyside with powerful elemetnal attacks while still dodging everything Byakuya has. Hell Byakuya's power was sealed with a mere clothe byt at cat chick he coudl proably do the same with his body coils while murdering him.

Kakuzu vs Toshiro
Kakuzu 9/10
Sorry he has it all.

Kakuzu vs Tosen
Kakuzu 7/10
Evne though he can't see through the illusion he cna still try to lay waste to the area and hope to hit him. Then evne if he gets stabbed he can play possum just like he did with Kakazhi and get up and kill Tosen before he knows it. If not then he is defiently smar t enough to figure out how to disrupt the Technique by grabbign Tsoen after beign impaled.


Damn I jsut typed alot of stuff I'm goignto tkae abreak.

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by Warmonger
Please Gamabunta would wipe the floor with that oversided Suit of Armor.

Since when was Gamabunta in Akatsuki?


Originally posted by Warmonger

Hell Akatuski atcually takes down POWERFUl gigantic mosnters not some overstuffed Samurai. Diedra could solo that thing.

No one in Akatsuki has taken down a monster that big. Kokujo standing up is as big as a sky scrapper.



Originally posted by Warmonger

The Reitsu thing is not impressive at all. Orochimaru did that as his first Gnejutsu. It wouldn't evne faze anyone in Akatsuki.

That was not genjutsu, it was his muderous intent. Kenpaichi did the samething when he fought ichigo.


Originally posted by Warmonger


Well if your going to bring the Old man in then SS chances go up significantly.

Of course he's here, your putting the entire soul soceity against Akatsuki.

leonheartmm
actually akatsuki have taken down the 2 tails, 3 tails, 4 tails and one tail{actually they took down him and gaara combined in power}. i think they are PRETTY BIG monsters, but maybe thats just me.

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually akatsuki have taken down the 2 tails, 3 tails, 4 tails and one tail{actually they took down him and gaara combined in power}. i think they are PRETTY BIG monsters, but maybe thats just me.

Compared to kokujo, it's not even a comparison.

leonheartmm
kokujo?

really, thats just plain wrong. bijuu are far powerful than kokujo.

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by leonheartmm
kokujo?

really, thats just plain wrong. bijuu are far powerful than kokujo.
Not all Bijuu are more powerful. Furthermore, who cares, they are not in this bout versus Kokujo who is.

Akuki
Ok i think I've got a rough way to calculate the speed of Bleach characters.
See if you can follow my math. In the original battle with Ichigo , Byakuya was able to move around 80 meters/ snap ichigo's sword off and return before Ichigo could even blink. I'm going to round this up to 100 meters due to the fact that he has to turn around and snap the sword.
Now it takes .3seconds for a human to blink. So if Byakuya went 200m in .3 seconds he went at .666km/sec= 2400km/hr. Also this happened in the real world while under power restraints which kept Byakuya's speed at 1/5th it's regular level. Therefore in soul society Byakuya's minimum speed is: 12,000km/hr. Now At this level of speed Ichigo was able to run circle's around Byakuya when he was in his bankai, which forced Byakuya to switch hisbankai into a mode where he could move at twice his normal speed, which would put him at 24,000km/hr. Even with all that Bankai Ichigo was still slightly faster and Varizard Ichigo was almost double Bankai Ichigo's speed. Thereby putting Vaizard Ichgio conservatively at around 48,000km/hr. Now Grimmjow was able to move at equal speeds with vaizard ichigo, and he's one of Aizen's lesser minions. Due to all this i say that Itachi dies a very quickly death.

leonheartmm
erm, didnt the starter actually have a tier of opponents? not the entire SOUL SOCIETY surely. just like when you say marvel vs DC. you have a tier of fighters from each. if your gonna bring in the entire soul society, then its useless.

Last Fre3lancer
Don't throw me back into this.

Akuki
Originally posted by Akuki
Ok i think I've got a rough way to calculate the speed of Bleach characters.
See if you can follow my math. In the original battle with Ichigo , Byakuya was able to move around 80 meters/ snap ichigo's sword off and return before Ichigo could even blink. I'm going to round this up to 100 meters due to the fact that he has to turn around and snap the sword.
Now it takes .3seconds for a human to blink. So if Byakuya went 200m in .3 seconds he went at .666km/sec= 2400km/hr. Also this happened in the real world while under power restraints which kept Byakuya's speed at 1/5th it's regular level. Therefore in soul society Byakuya's minimum speed is: 12,000km/hr. Now At this level of speed Ichigo was able to run circle's around Byakuya when he was in his bankai, which forced Byakuya to switch hisbankai into a mode where he could move at twice his normal speed, which would put him at 24,000km/hr. Even with all that Bankai Ichigo was still slightly faster and Varizard Ichigo was almost double Bankai Ichigo's speed. Thereby putting Vaizard Ichgio conservatively at around 48,000km/hr . Now Grimmjow was able to move at equal speeds with vaizard ichigo, and he's one of Aizen's lesser minions. Due to all this i say that Itachi dies a very quickly death. Anyone?

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Akuki
Ok i think I've got a rough way to calculate the speed of Bleach characters.
See if you can follow my math. In the original battle with Ichigo , Byakuya was able to move around 80 meters/ snap ichigo's sword off and return before Ichigo could even blink. I'm going to round this up to 100 meters due to the fact that he has to turn around and snap the sword.
Now it takes .3seconds for a human to blink. So if Byakuya went 200m in .3 seconds he went at .666km/sec= 2400km/hr. Also this happened in the real world while under power restraints which kept Byakuya's speed at 1/5th it's regular level. Therefore in soul society Byakuya's minimum speed is: 12,000km/hr. Now At this level of speed Ichigo was able to run circle's around Byakuya when he was in his bankai, which forced Byakuya to switch hisbankai into a mode where he could move at twice his normal speed, which would put him at 24,000km/hr. Even with all that Bankai Ichigo was still slightly faster and Varizard Ichigo was almost double Bankai Ichigo's speed. Thereby putting Vaizard Ichgio conservatively at around 48,000km/hr. Now Grimmjow was able to move at equal speeds with vaizard ichigo, and he's one of Aizen's lesser minions. Due to all this i say that Itachi dies a very quickly death.

zabuza moved the length of an entire footbal field{over a kilometre} before either kakashi or the three rookie genin could blink. use the same formula on this pre chuunin era characters and see the speed that you come up with. ofcourse, theyr are all MUCH faster now.

well i atleast appreciate the attempt at trying to quantify blech speed. its impressive{although u did pick among the top 5 spead feats in bleach} but naruto characters trump it.

Sandai Kitetsu
I wanna see how you came across these measurements. Post the work, and I'll post scans?

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by leonheartmm
zabuza moved the length of an entire footbal field{over a kilometre} before either kakashi or the three rookie genin could blink. use the same formula on this pre chuunin era characters and see the speed that you come up with. ofcourse, theyr are all MUCH faster now.

well i atleast appreciate the attempt at trying to quantify blech speed. its impressive{although u did pick among the top 5 spead feats in bleach} but naruto characters trump it.

Where are you getting these distances, post scans.

Akuki
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
I wanna see how you came across these measurements. Post the work, and I'll post scans?
You talking to me or leo?

leonheartmm
this is when zabuza was facing off against naruto party for the first time{im hazy but i think hat is right}. he was standing near or on water. and the party could just make it out in the distance{atlleast half a footbal field at max almost the entire length}. and then he instantly moved between the party {after disappearing} in betweem all of them backed up against one another. and cast his water prison jutsu. they hadnt even moved an inch and only later kakashi started percieving that he was infact behind them.

i think that is about right.

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by Akuki
You talking to me or leo?

both

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by leonheartmm
this is when zabuza was facing off against naruto party for the first time{im hazy but i think hat is right}. he was standing near or on water. and the party could just make it out in the distance{atlleast half a footbal field at max almost the entire length}. and then he instantly moved between the party {after disappearing} in betweem all of them backed up against one another. and cast his water prison jutsu. they hadnt even moved an inch and only later kakashi started percieving that he was infact behind them.

i think that is about right.

I'll post scans, because I'm not taking anoyone's words on these imaginary distances.

leonheartmm
ofcourse you do have spead feats of naruto reaching from an end of the lake to near the middle{easily beyond a footbal field} in less than half a second{or before even shaaringan sasuke could percieve} and deliver three punches and lift sasuke in the air before kicking him the length of another footbal field away, skipping on water.

leonheartmm
yea well, you have to take approximates{im almost certain about the lake, its atleast larger}. just like akuki had to take approximates on bleach.

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by leonheartmm
this is when zabuza was facing off against naruto party for the first time{im hazy but i think hat is right}. he was standing near or on water. and the party could just make it out in the distance{atlleast half a footbal field at max almost the entire length}. and then he instantly moved between the party {after disappearing} in betweem all of them backed up against one another. and cast his water prison jutsu. they hadnt even moved an inch and only later kakashi started percieving that he was infact behind them.

i think that is about right.

where did it say in the anime or manga that zabuto traveled the lenght of a football field so quickly?

leonheartmm
it didnt say that it was the length of a footbal field. that is just gues work{half a footbal field actualluy}. its hard to say it was a feet away for example. educated guesses. and his movement speed is seen by the fact that the others dont move a muscle even when he has arrived and only figure it out later that hes there.

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by leonheartmm
it didnt say that it was the length of a footbal field. that is just gues work{half a footbal field actualluy}. its hard to say it was a feet away for example. educated guesses. and his movement speed is seen by the fact that the others dont move a muscle even when he has arrived and only figure it out later that hes there.

that doesn't make any sense, you can't guess something like that

leonheartmm
uhhh, yes you can. judging by apprent sizes of humans and the difference in side, visual markers etc.

Akuki
Here's some of the scans that i was using to arrive at my estimate:
First encounter with Byakuya:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-16.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-17.jpg

Renji stating that in the human world they are limited to 1/5 of their abilities:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/manga-rainbleach-ch095-17.png
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/manga-rainbleach-ch095-18.png

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Warmonger
!. Pure Thoery. None of thier Illusions might work but right now we jsut got opinions on that. Considering that Itachi can see through pretyt much any kind of illsuion and even into the soul (I don't know about all that other stuff but it does allow you to look into the soul) I think he won't fall for it. The rest of Akatsuki might be boned though. Unless Itachi kills Aizen frst.

2. Actually he can trap several in a water bubble by using his water clone Jutsu just like when he fought team Guy.

3. Longer weapon yes, faster no. Hidan can fight forever though and where as whitey has to hit him with his main attack for that to work. Hidan only has to nick him.

4. Yet Ganju's spear sends him flying. Theat fruity spirit detective guy was able to block a hollow attack as well. He aint superhuman. Also I'm not talking about ichigo I'm talking about all those nameless Shinigami that run around SS. They never do anything remotely superhuman. No it isn't. Anything that Byakuya could do with his sand Gaara could do with his Sand and Rock lee was able to dodge it. Chiyo was able to make both her and Sakura dodge wave after wave of Sasori's needles which was more numerous than Byauya's flower petals.

5. Yeah I saw the fight I have ti on my hard drive. So waht you call Ichigo using his wepaon's power a Plot Device. HE grew stronger yes but that was after getitn cut down. Yet he didn't cut Ichigo in half before he got his power-up. In fact his power-up didn't seem to affect his ability to cut him at all. So cutting a buidling in half still only gets you so far if it doesn't work on person.

6. Thats not PIS thats CIS. He wasn't puncked so much as he didn't use his full abilites until he had a reason to. So he was just acting in character and paid for it. Which is why I was metnioning Naruto vs Neji as someone getting doped by somethig they should have but they le ttheir guard down.

7. I didnt' say they were all Genin but Chunin is not a big deal in Naruto. Also Iruka was able to perform the same feats. Crossing the the whole country thing, I don't rember vouching for that. I simply indicated their abiltiy to move far with a sinlge movemnt. 1. And it still makes no difference even if he can(which he can't), Itachi is strong, but he can't solo the whole team, most of his teamates are already dead.

2. That's an exception, and are you implying that a 1/10 power Kisame will be able to even do this?

3. Longer weapon, by like 3-5 feet, yes. Faster, hell yes. Hidan is slow(compared to rest of Akatsuki), why can't you accept that? If Whitey stabbed him, Hidan could not get his scythe to reach Whitey. Also, If Hidan has his arm lobbed off, he can't wield the scythe, and Kakuzu will be too busy getting murked to do anything.

4. Ganju has a spear? Didn't know that. Also, Ganju clearly is not a normal human, he can manipulate sand to a degree, and he has phenomenal stamina. So, are you saying normal humans can also block a strike 30 foot monster trying to eat you? Ichigo after first becoming a Shinigami's power was about the equivelant of a nameless Shinigami most of the time(as stated by Ulquiorra his power fluctuates). Byakuya does not have sand dude, and that Fruity guy is only a 5th seat, it's not like he's anywhere near the dudes in this fight in power. Needles are much smaller than 300 3-4 foot swords which Byakuya completely controls, and I can't remember that part of the fight, someone post a scan.

5.Kenny didn't cut him once, he stabbed him, both times.no expression

6. PIS, CIS, it's the same damn thing. Point is he could have easily beat Ichigo even with his sword powerup thing, but didn't because then the series would end.

7. Iruka is also a Chunin.no expression They can move far very quickly, true, but Bleach is on a whole other level.

Oh, and Kenny is a better swordsman than Kisame.

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
that doesn't make any sense, you can't guess something like that
Not without scans you can't.

Akuki
Ichigo is caught by Senbonzakura even though his earlier speed was able to match Byakuya.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-14.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-15.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-16.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-17.jpg

After he hits bankai he's able to move and put his sword at Byakuya's throat before he can react.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/162-17.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/162-18.jpg

easily dodging Senbonzakura even though Byakuya double's it's speed.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-08.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-09.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-10.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-12.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-13.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-14.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-15.jpg

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by Akuki

After he hits bankai he's able to move and put his sword at Byakuya's throat before he can react.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/162-17.jpg


The average human reacts at 0.5 seconds. So, ichigo can move what seems to be 8-10 meters in less then that.

Akuki
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
The average human reacts at 0.5 seconds. So, ichigo can move what seems to be 8-10 meters in less then that.
Keep in mind that is against Byakuya who as it's already been shown moves and reacts and speeds hundreds of times faster than the average human. The fastest any human can run is about 10.23 m/sec based on the world record 100 in the hundred meter dash and that's without any stopping slowing down etc. Byakuya shows he can move. So if we use the earlier math on how he was going 666.7 m/sec. in the human world in his limited form. He would have a reaction time at least 65.17 times that of the ordinary individual. if we take the fact that he was in soul society and 5 times faster then he would have a reaction time at least 325.855 times faster than the average human. that means he could react within .0015344seconds, and ichigo was able to easily overcome that in bankai. Note that in just about all of these measurements I'm being very very conservative.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
The average human reacts at 0.5 seconds. So, ichigo can move what seems to be 8-10 meters in less then that.

that would put him at around 20 m/s. for comparison the speed of sound is 330m/s and an average bullet goes 800 m/s. theres sumthin wrong here, that speed is TOO low.

Akuki
Originally posted by leonheartmm
that would put him at around 20 m/s. for comparison the speed of sound is 330m/s and an average bullet goes 800 m/s. theres sumthin wrong here, that speed is TOO low.
In the human world Byakuya is going about 666.7m/s. In soul society at normal speed he's going about 3333.5m/s. At the end of the fight with Ichigo he's moving at minimum 6667m/s and Ichigo's till beating him at speed, and shwoing himself to be at minimum about twice as fast as Byakuya, which would place him somewhere around 13334m/s. Once he hits vaizard form Ichigo's at minimum doubles, which places the current top bleach speed at around: 26668m/s

Lord Prime
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes, all Naruto humans have Chakra.


Can u show me where this is stated?

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Lord Prime
Can u show me where this is stated?

When Neji fights Hinata. Gai explains about how Neji's jyuuken affects the chakra system inside of their bodies.

Tallis
No one in the entire Narutoverse, is strong enough to even deal with the Spirit Pressure coming off of Zaraki with his eye-patch ON!. Much less dealing with any of the captains.

Naruto-verse is at best merely strong enough to deal with the Lieutenant level Shinigami.

Violent2Dope
Yeah, I didn't wanna say it, but Kenny could probably beat them all just by being in their presence, with the patch off, it's no comparison.

leonheartmm
the last 2 is disproven bias.currently naruto characters are far surpassing bleach characters in all aspects. perhaps near the end of bleach, the characters will regain their above narto place but currently theyd lose BADLY.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by leonheartmm
the last 2 is disproven bias.currently naruto characters are far surpassing bleach characters in all aspects. perhaps near the end of bleach, the characters will regain their above narto place but currently theyd lose BADLY. Disprove it. You can't, can you? Exactly, Bleach characters are much stronger than Naruto characters.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Disprove it. You can't, can you? Exactly, Bleach characters are much stronger than Naruto characters.

dont draw conclusions based on assumptions. i already did, comparing chakra vs reitsu and both affects in super human prowess and destructive power/illusionary/mystical affect by providing feats. you were not quoting feats there, just making over generalised statements about power level.

really, for a guy who questions my credibility as a poster, you ought to work a little more on providing evidence and analysing the argument. bleash characters AS THEY STAND wont last 2 minutes against naruto characters.

leonheartmm
plus the argument is based in negetive evidence. a classical logical fallacy. the burden of evidence is on you to prove{which u havent} not me to disprove. your statement holds no value if it hasnt already been established{and the OPPOSITE has been established already}

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by leonheartmm
dont draw conclusions based on assumptions. i already did, comparing chakra vs reitsu and both affects in super human prowess and destructive power/illusionary/mystical affect by providing feats. you were not quoting feats there, just making over generalised statements about power level.

really, for a guy who questions my credibility as a poster, you ought to work a little more on providing evidence and analysing the argument. bleash characters AS THEY STAND wont last 2 minutes against naruto characters. I have been disproving you and Warmongerer since this started. I can't provide evidence on sumthin nonspecific, you want me to just provide evidence on why Bleach>Naruto? Okay, Kenny with his massive Reitsu cut a builtding in half casually, took Ichigo's Zanpakuto head on, Shunsui or whatever his name is instantly went miles in one leap, Aizen blocked the punch of a VERY large Hollow with one hand, then disintigrated him with a Kido that he didn't even say the incantation to, Byakuya's Bankai has hundreds of 3-4 foot blades flying around him that he controls completely, and STILL couldn't hit Bankai Ichigo. I could go on, but I'll wait for your pathetic case to crush it. And no I can't provide scans as I don't know how.

Haruhi
Originally posted by leonheartmm
plus the argument is based in negetive evidence. a classical logical fallacy. the burden of evidence is on you to prove{which u havent} not me to disprove. your statement holds no value if it hasnt already been established{and the OPPOSITE has been established already}


But he's given you legitimate feats that happened in the Bleach cannon. (not that filler crap). And you're the one saying that Bleach characters don't stand a chance as they are now. Without giving feats. So, really,the burden of proof is on you to explain WHY. Because,again, some of the stuff they do in Bleach TEAR up whatever they do in Naruto. I've seen both series, and Bleach has upper tier characters in strength and speed. No matter how adamantly you deny it, that's just how it is.

When just about everyone else in the thread agrees, don't you think there's SOME reason why?

leonheartmm
or perhaps you simply are not paying attention to any of the points being made and avoid a reply which undermines your argument.


exactly so why make statements about it and try to use them as evidence to suggest that bleach>naruto?



naruto cut a giant ciff face which stretched towards both horizons, utterly while trying out the unharnessed power of his wind element for the first time, diadara created a blast which{minus thedestructive area around it} was as large as a village and that was just his smallest c-3 explosion. you cant substantiate he went the distance you claim and cant substantiate that it was infact in a measureable timeframe. on the other hand zabuza/lee/sasuke etc have much better speed feats than that. look at the aizen vs itachi thread. and those are pre shippuden feats. the akatsuki have taken chakra attacks from MUCH larger and MUCH more powerful bijuu without breakin a sweat. and defeated and trapped them with reletive ease. yondaime kazekage had many times more/larger and more powerful iron sand blands tipped with poison which need not even do damage to kill you and sakura avoided all while being surrounded by a mesh of them. and lets not forget, naruto can create THOUSANDS of clone with his weaker jutsus and that can more than counyter anything the full brunt of byakuya's bankai can dish out.

just a word of advice, stop personally attacking people with phrases like pathetic and whatnt which are unwarranted as i didnt attack you. plus it does nuthing good for your dredibility to use offence for no reaosn. if you cant provide scans than go look at the page in question. youll see that mu argument about being unable to compare speeds still holds. there is no reference point in the manga to compare such things. akuki found one with the whole faster than the blink of an eye thing but the argument was undermined by going from one assumption to another.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Haruhi
But he's given you legitimate feats that happened in the Bleach cannon. (not that filler crap). And you're the one saying that Bleach characters don't stand a chance as they are now. Without giving feats. So, really,the burden of proof is on you to explain WHY. Because,again, some of the stuff they do in Bleach TEAR up whatever they do in Naruto. I've seen both series, and Bleach has upper tier characters in strength and speed. No matter how adamantly you deny it, that's just how it is.

When just about everyone else in the thread agrees, don't you think there's SOME reason why?

same thing again. replying to posts that have nuthing to do with you or your previous posts. its becoming a norm with you.

he didnt give legitemate feats. statements like



have no feats or evidence. and obviously your not familiar with logical analysis so dont even try. the brunt of such arguments stand on since X is true because i assume it is{giving no evidence for its validity}, then based on X, Y shud also be true. and X is true{without having any evidence for it} until it is DISPROVEN.

the quoted statment is an assumption and it is upto the POSTER to give evidence to substantiate it and not ME to disprove it when it hasnt been proven or hinted at outside the posters personal oppinions{not based in evidence} to begin with.

naruto characters currently have higher feats. the reason 3 or 4{which really is the entire number of active people on bleach threads} people choose to defend bleach is because they think its cooler than naruto and the word SHINIGAMI inspires some kind of fanboy attraction which makes people think they are super powerful. plus the fact that aizen is more traditionally badass than naruto characters. they forget that badass does not equal power.

agains its a similar thing you find with alucard fanboys. who just based on his BADASS attitude, believe he is one of the strongest manga characters and would beat the likes of surfer and thor whne he isnt even on class 70 strength level.

Sol Valentine
Kenny dosen't need a badass attitude. He'll take the Akatsuki by himself if he had to.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by leonheartmm
naruto cut a giant ciff face which stretched towards both horizons, utterly while trying out the unharnessed power of his wind element for the first time, diadara created a blast which{minus thedestructive area around it} was as large as a village and that was just his smallest c-3 explosion. you cant substantiate he went the distance you claim and cant substantiate that it was infact in a measureable timeframe. on the other hand zabuza/lee/sasuke etc have much better speed feats than that. look at the aizen vs itachi thread. and those are pre shippuden feats. the akatsuki have taken chakra attacks from MUCH larger and MUCH more powerful bijuu without breakin a sweat. and defeated and trapped them with reletive ease. yondaime kazekage had many times more/larger and more powerful iron sand blands tipped with poison which need not even do damage to kill you and sakura avoided all while being surrounded by a mesh of them. and lets not forget, naruto can create THOUSANDS of clone with his weaker jutsus and that can more than counyter anything the full brunt of byakuya's bankai can dish out.

just a word of advice, stop personally attacking people with phrases like pathetic and whatnt which are unwarranted as i didnt attack you. plus it does nuthing good for your dredibility to use offence for no reaosn. if you cant provide scans than go look at the page in question. youll see that mu argument about being unable to compare speeds still holds. there is no reference point in the manga to compare such things. akuki found one with the whole faster than the blink of an eye thing but the argument was undermined by going from one assumption to another. 1. The Naruto thing with his Wind Rasengan is because of the massive chakra he had in the attack(cause you know, he has alot of it), whereas Kenny cutting a building in half is just a normal swipe of his sword, Kenny's Reitsu at full power spiraled up in the sky in a DBZ-like fashion.

2. Deidara's blast may have been impressive, but you also need to remember that's pretty much the only thing he has to his name, his bombs. He's not very fast compared to other members, not as strong, or as skilled in Taijutsu. In melee he would be crushed by anyone in SS team.

3. Zabuza, Sasuke, and Rock Lee's speed feats better than Ichigo easily dodging like 1,000 of Byakuya's petals simultaneously? My ass. Shunsui instantly went there(along with Ukitake) in one leap(the miles thing was just an estimate, tho it was still a great distance). For the scan, someone in this thread or the Itachi/Aizen thread posted it.

4. That's true and impressive, tho the Menos Gillian are bigger than any Biju, and those things are fodder for even people lower than the rank and power of a Lieutenant. Size is not everything, Deidara kinda cheated to capture Gaara(not really cheated, but he relied on uderhanded tricks), the Nekomata was just a big fire breathing cat,and Hidan cannot die and Kakuzu is hard as hell to kill as well and make an excellent fighting team,Sanbi is f*ckin retarded and couldn't use it's power right, so it was easy to catch, and as for Four Tails, Kisame apparently had some trouble fighting him due to it's ability to do many Chakra Fusions in battle. Not as impressive as you made it sound.

5. I can't remember about this attack Sakura dodged, could you post a scan?

6. Naruto's clone technique is a double edged sword, they take one hit to kill and are weaker than a full powered Naruto. Byakuya's Bankai could easily take it out.

7. I admit I jumped the gun when I insulted you and I apologize.

leonheartmm
that wasnt the wind raasengan. it was JUST wind element that he used with his kage bunshin to destroy the rock face. and kenny cutting the building was a high end strike. the very fact that its quoted is testament to that{btw kenny hasnt shown the true extent of his power yet. he doesnt even know his zanpakuto's name}.
and again we were comparing power levels and naruto feats currently are greater than bleach ones.



not really. he has his sand clones. body flicker, clone bomb, c-4 air dispersed charges and flight etc based on his jutsu. anyway, if you compare it to bleach characters, most are also highly limited because of their zampakuto's characteristic. they only have the specific zanpakuto type{normally around which their entire battle stratey is based} and the occasional kido and flash step. only very few visored/arrancnar have added {and even then specific} powers like cero.



you should undertstand that the feat in question your mentioning was more an AGILITY/REFLEX feat than it was a SPEED feat. the daggers were not dispersed over a phenomenal area. on the other hand rock lee was moving the ENTIRE length of the chunin stadium to deliver each hit to mid air gara, and hundreds of end to end stadium hits in the same time period are MUCH faster than deflecting hundreds of daggers which are closely spaced. no1 is saying it wasnt an awesome feat, its ust that naruto has greater if you strictly look at the criteri or stat your looking at as opposed to personal liking for feats.

also, one LEAP has no time period. and as ive explained before, you have sasuke flying away for miles instantaneously to avoid diedara's attacks etc plus zabuza crossing the lengths to come n stand on his thrown sword in the blink of an eye. etc etc etc



i doubt it, thy are big certainly, but not big enough to dwarf mountains. plus the bijuu are MUCH stronger. diedara was PLAYING with gaara. if he exerted himself at any level close to what he did against sasuke, the whole sand would be nuthing more than well......... SAND/dust in seconds. he had a hard time keeping the jinchuuriko ALIVE.



unfortunately right now, i have another limitation, its called screwed up DIALUP. the page is where sasori uses the doll of yondaime hokage who creates literally a matrix of thousands of angular spikes tipped with poison using his iron sand kekai genkai.


true, but it WUD take each blade tens of tries to kill all naruto clones. and that is NOT assuming each clone counterattacks. meanwhile naruto can attack byakuya who wudnt be able to control his bankai and has no offence other than kidou{hard to do while in bankai. concentration n all} or running away with flash step{which admittedly non kyuubi NARUTO can counter as he doesnt really know body flicker}



appreciated smile

Remindme
I hate you two!!! how could you make me read all that?!

i can't be bother to say anything, other than i'm offended at how much the Bijuu's are downplayed sad

Memos maybe bigger than Bijuu's but there no way i can believe they are even close in srength erm

Bijuu List
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=57918

Warmonger
I'm not too good at math here and I'm not evne going to attempt a bunch of bizzare calculations. But I remeber in the fight with Haku Sasuke kicked a puddle of water about a foot in the air and they had a bit of a mini fight before the water landed. When I get home I'll take a look at the clip but at their slowest speeds they were all including naruto able to perform several actions in that span of time. Akatsuki is magnitudes past that speed already. Honeslty Ichigo should have been in this to make this fight swing more in SS facor. Though after reading further I think there is a possiblity that Aizen could take on two Akatsuki members on his own.


Also I'm sorry but Bleach has good speed fetas but pure destructive feats do belong to Naruto characters.

Warmonger
Originally posted by Remindme
I hate you two!!! how could you make me read all that?!

i can't be bother to say anything, other than i'm offended at how much the Bijuu's are downplayed sad

Memos maybe bigger than Bijuu's but there no way i can believe they are even close in srength erm

Bijuu List
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=57918

I hear you Dog-face's Bankai is just a big suit of armor without any real offesnive abilties and he barely made a dent in the ground. The two taild Cat would have incinerated the Soul Soceity (city not chars).

Sol Valentine
yeah, until the powerful captains destroyed it.

leonheartmm
never gonna happen. bleachers are hyped too much on kmc.

Sol Valentine
Ahem, yes it would.

Damn, this thread still lives.

Akuki
Originally posted by leonheartmm
never gonna happen. bleachers are hyped too much on kmc.
I went over to NarutoFan, and they agree Bleach power levels are much higher than Naruto as well.

Sol Valentine
Even NarutoFan said that?

leonheartmm
narutofan said that or some BLEACHFAN on narutfan forums said that????

either way, personally i think naruto is, considering the feats.

Sol Valentine
Bleachfan on narutofan is bad chemistry.

Go have a look at it if you don't believe Akuki.

leonheartmm
yes but WHERE? i mean narutfan doesnt have an official power comparison page. just endless forum threads and its surely some topic where people discuss etc. people ave preseferences and bleach and naruto are two of the most widely read manga and many people like em both. i highly doubt its anything more than a comparison thread like this one.

Sol Valentine
I see.

Akuki
Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes but WHERE? i mean narutfan doesnt have an official power comparison page. just endless forum threads and its surely some topic where people discuss etc. people ave preseferences and bleach and naruto are two of the most widely read manga and many people like em both. i highly doubt its anything more than a comparison thread like this one.
I was stating that based on the fact that in all of the Bleach character vs. Naruto character threads in the Outskirts Battle Dome, the general consensus is generally that Top tier bleach characters>>>>>Top tier naruto characters. There's a pretty long thread there on whether or not Byakuya by himself could solo most of the villages in Naruto.

Sol Valentine
There was?

leonheartmm
yea well there are pretty long threads here based on alucard vs beyond herald level beings. you cant always go based on an unfair allocation of fans. and from what i remember, narutofan threads did have a fair amount of naruto suporters too{seeing as i go there from time to time to get the naruto manga's latest chapters}. there will always be groups of people who put up silly threads{please any1 who thinks byakuya can solo narutoverse shud go shoot themseles}. doesnt make em valid. besides, the points abot naruto vs bleach stats remains doesnt it.

Endless Mike
Practically any Bleach vs. Naruto match begins and ends with shyunpo + stab to the throat.

Sol Valentine
LOL.

leonheartmm
yea well thas the perception of bleachers. even if its utterly false.

Sol Valentine
There's nothing utterly false about it.

Some points yes, others no.

Violent2Dope
I'll say to Leon the same thing I said to BT, there is a reason you are the only one who thinks this.

Sol Valentine
Heh.

leonheartmm
ill say, that reason is more the way the art is presented than the actual on panel feats of bleach. theres a whole science behind perception and bleachers just seem COOLER and their feats more impressive when infact if you look at the actual content of the feats, its nuthing any more impressive than naruto.

Endless Mike
Show me someone from Naruto knocking down a million+ supersonic homing blades in a few seconds

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Show me someone from Naruto knocking down a million+ supersonic homing blades in a few seconds

a million plus???? thye were more like a few hundred-thousand in his bankai. in his shikai, they werent knocked down as much as they were blown away seeing as they were too tiny to be seen by the naked eye.

sakura dodged thousands of incoming venomous spikes{where one would spell disaster} against sasori's use of yondaime kazekage's puppet. again this is more of a reflex feat than a speed feat, since the blades werent very far dispersed. and their speed is in question too.

alternately, show me ANY 1 in bleach doing damage close to what diedara has done with his jutsus.

Violent2Dope
Shunsui and Ukitake with one leap and in an instant went miles. There is not a single Naruto speed feat to match that. Strength, Kenny cuts buildings in half, the average Shinigami can block an attack from large Hollows, and Aizen with one hand block the punch of an extremely big hollow, before disintegrating it with a kido without even using the incantation, which makes it weaker. Deidara is the ONLY non-bijuu in Naruto that can do damage like that, but his other abilities are sub-par compared to most of Akatsuki.

Blax_Hydralisk
What get's me about Bleach is how terrible the fight scenes are. It's like

Person A stands in one spot with his tiny sword and smirks.

Ichigo stands twenty feet away with his HUGE ASS SWORD and smirks.

Person A uses his benkai, while standing in one spot. Ichigo swings his sword.. while standing one spot. They both smirk some more and talk about how they haven't even used the height of there powers. They run at each other, and you think: "Oh man.. now we get to see them sword fight!" Nope. They just lock swords and somehow Ichigo with his giant ass sword is unable to overpower person a with his tiny, skinny one. They then break the sword lock and jump away, then smirk at each other some more.

I thought Naruto was bad with it's constant flashbacks that last entire episodes.. but geeze, at least you can actually see there abilities. Just by watching Bleach it's hard to tell how good of fighters they are,

Sol Valentine
They love cliffhangers.

Blax_Hydralisk
Well I mean, no offense to Bleach at all, I'm just saying. I tried getting into that show but the fights just bored me.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
What get's me about Bleach is how terrible the fight scenes are. It's like

Person A stands in one spot with his tiny sword and smirks.

Ichigo stands twenty feet away with his HUGE ASS SWORD and smirks.

Person A uses his benkai, while standing in one spot. Ichigo swings his sword.. while standing one spot. They both smirk some more and talk about how they haven't even used the height of there powers. They run at each other, and you think: "Oh man.. now we get to see them sword fight!" Nope. They just lock swords and somehow Ichigo with his giant ass sword is unable to overpower person a with his tiny, skinny one. They then break the sword lock and jump away, then smirk at each other some more.

I thought Naruto was bad with it's constant flashbacks that last entire episodes.. but geeze, at least you can actually see there abilities. Just by watching Bleach it's hard to tell how good of fighters they are, The Kenny fight was badass.

Sol Valentine
Kenny v.s. Ichigo
Byakuya v.s. Ichigo
Rukia v.s. Aroneiro Arleri
Uryu v.s. Mayuri
Renji v.s. Ichigo
Ikkaku v.s. Edorad Leones
Renji v.s. Illfort Grantz
Grimmjow Jaggerjack v.s. Ichigo

Those were great.

Blax_Hydralisk
The Grimjow one was the weakest fight.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Shunsui and Ukitake with one leap and in an instant went miles. There is not a single Naruto speed feat to match that. Strength, Kenny cuts buildings in half, the average Shinigami can block an attack from large Hollows, and Aizen with one hand block the punch of an extremely big hollow, before disintegrating it with a kido without even using the incantation, which makes it weaker. Deidara is the ONLY non-bijuu in Naruto that can do damage like that, but his other abilities are sub-par compared to most of Akatsuki.

problem is, an INSTANT cant be measured. lee actually travelled many miles in a second or so at the most. you consistantly forget that while making claims like there is NO naruto speed feat which comes close. yes there is and infact there ARE. sasuke flew away miles against diedara's explosion in an instant. and moved instantaneously from the earth to behind him while he was flying high up. naruto has far more, its just that the speed feats are CENTRAL to the bleach plot/fights etc. nuthing more. kenny cutting buildings in half is no big deal, its CUTTING{hardly any resistance} as opposed ot OBLITERATING{far more power required}, the average shinigami has their combined asses handed to them by large hollows. its only a few individuals in the soul society which can take them on. and these hollows pale in comparison to naruto creatures/summons etc. aizen is on of the supreme bleachers and yet even then the hollow was nowhere near bijuu strength{if u think otherwise than try and recall any feats of the hollow} and his jidou pales in comparison to jutsu used in naruto. diadaa's sinle feas TRUMP those by a long shot. and no didara is FAR from the only character who can do damage like that, bijuu can and have. shukaku was clearing areas the length of football fields with single attacks. gamabunta was clearing forests with wrod slashes. and have we so soon forgotten the fight between naruto 4 tails and urochimaru. the were completely annihlating miles in single attacks and moving much greater lengths in single frames. your claim is completely hollow. and diedara isnt even close to the strongest akatsuki. even gara was creating sand constructs compareable in size to the entire city sized sand village. hell curse mark two archer was clearing giant chunks of teh forest with single arrows and the fat curse mark sound nin was creating craters compareable to small town in his fight with red pill chouji. kimimaru created ultra strong 4-5 story high{atleast} bones spikes to devestate the area almost stretching to the horizon while gaara was changing the entire landscape in his fight against kimimaru. there are still many more. like naruto creating giant craters and obliterating colossally wide cliffs wigth just his wind element.

and his other abilities like speed an reflexes are easily superior to a lot of shinigami if you look at his fights.{diedara}

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