Photon Genis vs Superboy Prime

RageOfTheGods

Originally posted by guy222
Superboy Prime

http://c.imagehost.org/t/0405/FC-Lot3W01-006.jpg http://c.imagehost.org/t/0789/FC-Lot3W01-014.jpg http://c.imagehost.org/t/0686/FC-Lot3W01-015.jpg http://c.imagehost.org/t/0485/FC-Lot3W01-016.jpg http://c.imagehost.org/t/0893/FC-Lot3W01-017.jpg http://c.imagehost.org/t/0696/FC-Lot3W01-028.jpg

I just got that issue........it seems to be turning into something really interesting.....

Anyways Superboy Prime for the win........Genis-Vell does have a chance if he uses Prime's Solar Limitations to his advantage.....

guy222

good issue and good art

RageOfTheGods

Yup enjoyed it.......one of the best Final Crisis issues out so far and yes good art.......always enjoyed Perez's work.......

OneDumbG0

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4564/genisds5.th.jpg http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8507/newthunderbolts018page157mh.th.jpg http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/9360/newthunderbolts018page163fe.th.jpg http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/8492/newthunderbolts018page180bb.th.jpg http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6941/newthunderbolts018page199eo.th.jpg http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8996/newthunderbolts018page200oa.th.jpg

sly

guy222

that was a great issue

RageOfTheGods

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4564/genisds5.th.jpg http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8507/newthunderbolts018page157mh.th.jpg http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/9360/newthunderbolts018page163fe.th.jpg http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/8492/newthunderbolts018page180bb.th.jpg http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6941/newthunderbolts018page199eo.th.jpg http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8996/newthunderbolts018page200oa.th.jpg

sly

Nice I remember that one.........so this fight is Genis-Vell in his photonic form then........

He is part of a fundemental force that is one of the building blocks of reality and was going to destroy the Universe because of the connection Zemo made with the Moonstones (he accelerated Genis-Vell return I believe which in turncaused by Genis-Vell to siphon energy at both the beginning and end)........

He is much powerful than his father but do not forget Prime survived an attack that basically destroyed a Universe no worse for wear from what I saw.........and do not forget.......Prime's very punches were altering reality across the entire DC.........

Even Superboy Prime had the durability to survive a Big Bang..........

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Realityalterpunch2.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/notstupid6.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/notstupid7.jpg

And he was severely weakened due to the lack of Solar Radiation when this occured......

His abilities are impressive but against Superman Prime I do not see what he could do to physically harm him.........against Superboy Prime Genis-Vell could use the Solar Limitation to his advantage to weaken Prime........but I will give Prime the win......I have not read Thunderbolts for a little while now but I do not recall Genis-Vell showing any force strong enough to put Prime down.......just to make sure I will go find my Thunderbolt's collection........

Can anyone tell me how Zemo defeated Genis-Vell.......I recall him slicing Genis-Vell into pieces then trapping him in different parts of time correct, right?

OneDumbG0

^ Genis-Vell changed reality without the need for plot device reality barriers and such by doing it the ole fashioned way and actually destroying the multiverse and rewriting history. Specifically, he changed where he ignored saving an alien girl's life who would go on to unite alien races. Of course, when he ends up saving her in the new multiverse, he sees that this leads to even greater destruction throughout the cosmos and goes insane again. Well, the effort is what counts, not the results... And remember, it was multiverse, not universe as this scan confirms:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1967/cm1ls8.th.jpg

As far as I see, Genis is well above Superman Prime in that department if you want to talk about universal destruction and all that jazz. As for what he'd physically do to him, I guess he could just drive him insane by unleashing a Primal Scream:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5135/primalscream01fr6.th.jpg

RageOfTheGods

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Genis-Vell, before he turned into Photon also helped destroy the universe and survived that destruction. He also survived the subsequent new Big Bang that restored the universe. As far as I see, Genis is one up on Superman Prime in that department if you want to talk about universal destruction and all that jazz.

Entropy (Cosmic Entity and basically off spring of Eternity) somehow managed to succeed into basically making Eternity reach Entropy (It was Entropy's destiny and design to do so I believe) .....but Genis-Vell was there........Entropy and I believe Epiphany was present later on.........it has been awhile since I read it but if I recall correctly I did not see him do anything to suggest he has anywhere near the power or durability to destroy and survive the destruction of a Universe.......if it was not for Entropy he would have been dust......Entropy ressurected him from his death........method of death was shooting himself in the head.......

He and Jones convinced Entropy to recreate Reality......since I recall Rick Jones was there ( I am pretty sure that Genis convinced Entropy to bring back Jones ) and also survived and witnessed the creation of a new reality it is safe to assume that Entropy did all of it........well Genis-Vell did make it so that they were sent back before the events that happened.......

OnPrime does this on his own power.......he survived the destruction of one under his own durability........

He was present at the destruction and recreation because of Entropy and such........

Do you remember what issue it was in? I want to go and re-read it to refresh my memory........

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
Entropy (Cosmic Entity and basically off spring of Eternity) somehow managed to succeed into basically making Eternity see Entropy.....but Genis-Vell was there........Entropy and I believe Epiphany was there as well.........it has been awhile since I read it but if I recall correctly I did not see him do anything to suggest he has anywhere near the power or durability to destroy and survive the destruction of a Universe.......if it was not for Entropy he would have been dust......Entropy ressurected him from his death........method of death was shooting himself in the head.......

He and Jones convinced Entropy to recreate Reality......since I recall Rick Jones was there ( I am pretty sure that Genis convinced Entropy to bring back Jones ) and also survived and witnessed the creation of a new reality it is safe to assume that Entropy did all of it........ Considering that Entropy never takes credit for doing that and Genis actually takes the credit personally for allowing Rick Jones to witness the destruction and recreation of the multiverse on-panel, I'd say your interpretation is incorrect:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/791/g4kb1.th.jpg

Mindset

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
Entropy (Cosmic Entity and basically off spring of Eternity) somehow managed to succeed into basically making Eternity reach Entropy (It was Entropy's destiny and design to do so I believe) .....but Genis-Vell was there........Entropy and I believe Epiphany was present later on.........it has been awhile since I read it but if I recall correctly I did not see him do anything to suggest he has anywhere near the power or durability to destroy and survive the destruction of a Universe.......if it was not for Entropy he would have been dust......Entropy ressurected him from his death........method of death was shooting himself in the head.......

He and Jones convinced Entropy to recreate Reality......since I recall Rick Jones was there ( I am pretty sure that Genis convinced Entropy to bring back Jones ) and also survived and witnessed the creation of a new reality it is safe to assume that Entropy did all of it........well Genis-Vell did make it so that they were sent back before the events that happened.......

I think you have some things mixed up.

Entropy didn't make Eternity reach entropy, he simply killed him, unless that's what you meant which would be technically right.

Anyway Entropy needed Genis help to do this, by his own admission. It was never said or shown anywhere that Entropy brought Genis back to life, it was however shown that Genis could not die in a sense, he would simply just become energy, he no longer needed a physical body.

Entropy had nothing to do with Genis surviving the end of the universe, he might have however saved Epiphany, I don't know. Anyway, the only reason Rick was there was because Genis saved him through their bond. Entropy had nothing to do with Rick being there.

Genis shot Entropy in the head causing a big bang and turning Entropy into Eternity.

Rick only was unaffected because he didn't have a physical body to harm.

RageOfTheGods

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Considering that Entropy never takes credit for doing that and Genis actually takes the credit personally for allowing Rick Jones to witness the destruction and recreation of the multiverse on-panel, I'd say your interpretation is incorrect:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/791/g4kb1.th.jpg

Hold on which issue was this in so I can refresh my memory.......I want to get all the facts before I continue this discussion lol.........

Mindset

Genis "killing" Entropy and causing a big bang.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CaptainMarvelIV06p11.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CaptainMarvelIV06p12.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CaptainMarvelIV06p13.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CaptainMarvelIV06p14.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CaptainMarvelIV06p15.jpg

"He's beyond the need of a physical body, or his physical body is beyond the needs he is familiar with" Entropy didn't bring Genis back to life.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CaptainMarvelIV05p15.jpg

Mindset

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
Hold on which issue was this in so I can refresh my memory.......I want to get all the facts before I continue this discussion lol.........

#6

Galan007

genis "killed" a willing entropy, by shooting him in the face with his kree weapon (none). anyhow, for some reason i just don't see prime having too much difficulty against a being that sentry was virtually stalemating.

prime ftw.

Mindset

Galan007

i do, but that still doesn't change anything i said. anyhow, the weapon is a moot point in this particular debate. why? because iirc, photon does not carry it on his person.

prime ftw.

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by Galan007
genis "killed" a willing entropy, by shooting him in the face with his kree weapon (none). anyhow, for some reason i just don't see prime having too much difficulty against a being that sentry was virtually stalemating.

prime ftw. Is crushing a bound Eternity better for you?

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6278/g2zm0.th.jpg

Yeah. He takes personal credit for that too. Either way, going on durability alone, Genis survived both multiversal destruction and a multiversal Big Bang. Superman Prime apparently survived universal destruction... along with a lil flower. Anyhow, for some reason I just don't see Genis having too much difficulty against a being that Superman-1 and Superman-2 kicked the crap out of by dipping in the red sun for a few seconds.

Mindset

Originally posted by Galan007
i do, but that still doesn't change anything i said. anyhow, the weapon is a moot point in this particular debate. why? because iirc, photon does not carry it on his person.

prime ftw.

Ok, and Genis doesn't need the gun to use his power... no expression

Galan007

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Is crushing a bound Eternity better for you?

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6278/g2zm0.th.jpg

eh, not only did the battle in which eternity was killed take place off panel, but we know that both genis AND entropy were present. we also know that just before the battle transpired, entropy was asking for genis to help with this task . in short, there is really no way to give genis sole credit for taking out eternity.

anyhow, sentry managed to stalemate photon for a while. imho, prime is >> sentry.

imo, prime takes this.

Originally posted by Mindset
Ok, and Genis doesn't need the gun to use his power... no expression

there is no proof whatsoever that the gun can take out a being of entropy's caliber, if they are not willing to "die" in the first place. so i don't know why that 'feat' keeps getting brought up..

anyhow, i've already stated my opinion here. smile

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by Galan007
eh, not only did the battle in which eternity was killed take place off panel, but we know that both genis AND entropy were present. we also know that just before the battle transpired, entropy was asking for genis to help with this task . in short, there is really no way to give genis sole credit for taking out eternity.

anyhow, sentry managed to stalemate photon for a while. imho, prime is >> sentry.

imo, prime takes this. Never gave Genis sole credit for destroying Eternity. I just think the idea of crushing a bound Eternity in your hand is pretty cool. Either way, considering that Genis was only trying to stall Sentry as per Baron Zemo's specific instructions and not defeat him and both of them were holding back and not actually trying, I don't find that instance to be very applicable in this scenario. I guess, unless we're using a holding back, not-serious Genis who isn't trying to win here. Yeah, maybe then Superman Prime could stalemate and then get BFR'ed into the Microverse? As you know, Genis has true Cosmic Awareness. He'd completely know about Superman Prime's weakness.

Anyhow, Superman-1 and Superman-2 managed to beat the snot out of Superboy Prime through a single red-sun dip. IMHO, Genis >> red-sun dip.

IMO, Genis takes this.

Galan007

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Anyhow, Superman-1 and Superman-2 managed to beat the snot out of Superboy Prime through a single red-sun dip.you mean after prime returned from the SF weaker than before? after he took on the likes of black adam, j'onn, the ray, nightshade, conner, wondergirl, flash, multiple GL's ? and even after all that + being flown through a red sun, he still managed to kill e-2 supes.

that what you mean? stick out tongue

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
IMO, Genis takes this. cool beans. smile

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by Galan007
you mean after prime returned from the SF weaker than before? after he took on the likes of black adam, j'onn, the ray, nightshade, conner, wondergirl, flash, multiple GL's ? and even after all that + being flown through a red sun, he still managed to kill e-2 supes.

that what you mean? stick out tongue

cool beans. smile

He had his suit on the whole time during the encounters you mention. You saw what he could do with his suit on in Sinestro Corps War. It continually fed him yellow sunlight.

Depowered Superman-2 = old man and depowered Superboy-Prime = teenager. You want to give props to a teenager for beating on an old man?

That what you mean? stick out tongue

Either way, Genis, who can't turn off his damn true Cosmic Awareness even when he wants to, would sense his red sun weakness and transport him inside a red sun. The end.

Harbinger

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Is crushing a bound Eternity better for you?

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6278/g2zm0.th.jpg

Yeah. He takes personal credit for that too. Either way, going on durability alone, Genis survived both multiversal destruction and a multiversal Big Bang. Superman Prime apparently survived universal destruction... along with a lil flower. Anyhow, for some reason I just don't see Genis having too much difficulty against a being that Superman-1 and Superman-2 kicked the crap out of by dipping in the red sun for a few seconds.
Didn't Prime beat the hell out of Earth 2 Supes even after he'd been flown through Rao?

Harbinger

Galan beat me to it. Oh well.

OneDumbG0

You guys should watch Clockwork Orange. There's a scene where teenagers beat the crap out of an old man. Should be right up your alley...

shifty

... not really. dur

Galan007

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He had his suit on the whole time during the encounters you mention. You saw what he could do with his suit on in Sinestro Corps War. It continually fed him yellow sunlight. glad you brought that up, actually. during the first issue of SC wars, prime was released from his prison within a red sun, and given back his 'power suit'. fast-forward to "GL #22", and he can be seen just sitting on the moon waiting for the rest of the SC army to arrive. this means that for 7 issues, prime was just sitting on the moon doing nothing, with his suit on, and absorbing solar radiation . fast-forward yet again to the "superman-prime" comic, and prime specifically stated that he was "nearly whole" again. implying that despite him absorbing solar radiation at an enhanced rate for a total of 7 issues, he was still not at full power.

point being, he surely wouldn't have been at full power when he broke out of the SF during infinite crisis either. why? because not only had he been kept under a red sun for "years" by the flashes, but when he came out of the SF, he immediately started battling heroes, which would naturally slow the absorption process.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Depowered Superman-2 = old man and depowered Superboy-Prime = teenager. You want to give props to a teenager for beating on an old man?

That what you mean? stick out tongue

e-2 supes was far from a feeble old man.

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by Galan007
glad you brought that up, actually. during the first issue of SC wars, prime was released from his prison within a red sun, and given back his 'power suit'. fast-forward to "GL #22", and he can be seen just sitting on the moon waiting for the rest of the SC army to arrive. this means that for 7 issues, prime was just sitting on the moon doing nothing, with his suit on, and absorbing solar radiation . yet in the "superman-prime" comic, he specifically stated that he was "nearly whole" again. implying that despite him absorbing solar radiation at an enhanced rate for a total of 7 issues, he was still not at full power.

point being, he surely wouldn't have been at full power when he broke out of the SF during infinite crisis either. why? because not only had he been kept under a red sun for "years" by the flashes, but when he came out of the SF, he immediately started battling heroes, which would naturally slow the absorption process.That's reasonable. Doesn't change the fact that a single quick dip through a red-sun depowers Superman Prime from uber-kick-the-crap-out-of-everyone Infinite Crisis levels to nothing pretty much instantaneously. And well, Genis has Cosmic Awareness, which he couldn't turn off if he wanted to, and the ability to transport himself and people all over the place. He also has a vast, though sort of undefined, ability to manipulate energy personally.
Originally posted by Galan007
e-2 supes was far from a feeble old man. True. I still wouldn't give props to a raging emo teenager for beating up an old man who doesn't kill, feeble or not.

Galan007

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's reasonable. Doesn't change the fact that a single quick dip through a red-sun depowers Superman Prime from uber-kick-the-crap-out-of-everyone Infinite Crisis levels to nothing pretty much instantaneously. And well, Genis has Cosmic Awareness, which he couldn't turn off if he wanted to, and the ability to transport himself and people all over the place. He also has a vast, though sort of undefined, ability to manipulate energy personally.i agree that even if prime were at his max, a red sun dip would obviously weaken him. however, i wouldn't expect him to become anywhere near as weak as he was when said 'attack' was used against him during IC. why? because when we saw that attack used, prime was already weaker then he was at 'peak levels'.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
True. I still wouldn't give props to a raging emo teenager for beating up an old man who doesn't kill, feeble or not. i would. guess i'm just sick like that. evillaugh

OneDumbG0

Evil bastard! jr_shakefist

Mindset

And where are you getting Entropy was willing to die? Genis didn't give him a chance to do or say anything, Entropy was talking about creating something and asked where to begin, Genis said something then immediately shot Entropy in the head.

Exactly what level is Entropy? He needed Genis to help him beat Eternity.

And I was using it to show Genis was at the site of the big bang, I wasn't using him shooting Entropy as of feat of anything, so...

Enyalus

OneDumbG0, do you have a scan of Genis as Photon literally mind raping Purple Man (or whatever he was called), which ended up with said villian curled up in the fetal position crying on the ground? That's more or less along the lines of what I thinking of for my initial post:

Originally posted by Enyalus
Thats...nice. But Photon would make SMP cry. Literally.

OneDumbG0

^ I don't. Sorry. I vaguely remember what you're talking about though. That could work. I just think a Primal Scream would be more flashy...

biscuits

Galan007

Originally posted by Mindset
And where are you getting Entropy was willing to die? Genis didn't give him a chance to do or say anything, Entropy was talking about creating something and asked where to begin, Genis said something then immediately shot Entropy in the head. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6369/cm1zv6.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mindset
Exactly what level is Entropy?abstract.

Originally posted by Mindset
And I was using it to show Genis was at the site of the big bang, I wasn't using him shooting Entropy as of feat of anything, so... the act of killing eternity didn't affect genis and the gang, so why would his resurrection? *shrugs*

Mindset

Originally posted by Galan007
this part of the page is crucial:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6369/cm1zv6.th.jpg

"some sort of energy discharge would be appropriate." hmm

abstract.

the act of killing eternity didn't affect genis and the gang, so why would his resurrection? *shrugs*

Yea energy discharge, I'm sure he knew Genis was gonna shoot him in the face after he said that...

Abstract level that needed Genis help in killing Eternity.

Well Entropy and Epiphany exist outside of the perimeters of the cosmos, the only reason Rick was there was because Genis saved him or else he would have ceased to exist like everyone else. Genis was already "dead" how he survives isn't explained, but it could be because he was just energy.

I don't even see how SBP would kill Genis, possibly a ko.

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by Galan007
there is no proof whatsoever that the gun can take out a being of entropy's caliber, if they are not willing to "die" in the first place. so i don't know why that 'feat' keeps getting brought up..I'm not sure, but are you interpreting Entropy's use of the term "energy discharge" as him requesting that Genis shoot him? I'm very sure that Entropy was thinking that he should discharge energy from himself to start creation, not to receive an energy discharge from Genis. The fact that Genis uses an "energy discharge" to start the Big Bang was surely meant to be irony. I personally don't believe Entropy was "willing to die."