Ron Paul for president? A Republican or A LiBeRtArIaN?

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Czarina_Czarina
Have you guys even heard of him, I haven't.

What do you think about the Libertarian Party?



http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Healing Artisan
i dont follow politics too much but many consider him to be a "real republican"

Kinneary
Yes, he is a real republican, though he does keep a strong relationship with the libertarian party open. He's got my vote, no holds barred.

Here's a small summary of his views:

He supports free trade, sharply lower taxes, smaller government, states' rights, national sovereignty, and a non-interventionist foreign policy, advocating a withdrawal from NATO and the United Nations. He voted against the USA PATRIOT Act, the Iraq War Resolution, and the Military Commissions Act of 2006. Paul supports reduced government spending, opposes the debt-based monetary system and seeks the re-introduction of the gold standard. As congressman, he states that he has never voted to raise taxes or to approve an unbalanced budget. He has called for the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service and the federal income tax. Paul is strongly opposed to abortion, and opposes capital punishment, believing both issues should be reserved to the states via the 10th amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul

Czarina_Czarina
You guys already know about this, but I had to refresh my mind about it, here's a few sentences about libertarianism.


My apologies for speaking the obvious:

"Libertarians strongly oppose infringement of civil liberties such as restrictions on free expression (e.g., speech, press, or religious practice), prohibitions on voluntary association, or encroachments on persons or property. Libertarians also oppose any laws restricting personal or consensual behavior..."

Strangelove

Czarina_Czarina
Anyone have news about this person?

pepperjeff
He is actually popular in online circles. He might surprise you just a little.

Schecter
if i had to choose between him and the war profiteering neocon fascist pieces of human garbage which infest the 'republican' side of the candidacy, yeah of course he would have my vote.

with that said, there is already a thread on the republican nomination. thanks again for a useless and redundant thread, soul switcher.

Imaginary
Withdrawal from the UN?

Oh, bloody brilliant roll eyes (sarcastic)

ADarksideJedi
Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
Have you guys even heard of him, I haven't.

What do you think about the Libertarian Party?



http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I hate liberals.terri mad

Devil King
Originally posted by Imaginary
Withdrawal from the UN?

Oh, bloody brilliant roll eyes (sarcastic)

Indeed. He has a lot of good things to say. And while he is the best candidate on the Republican side of this election, his views on foreign affairs are almost irresponsible at this point in history.

Bardock42
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I hate liberals.terri mad He's a republican.

Devil King
Originally posted by Bardock42
He's a republican.

And a conservative one at that.

(see, "Terri" doesn't know the principles of her own party. In fact, most republicans don't.)

Fishy
The guy has some good points and on others he's just a complete idiot...

I wouldn't want to see him in the white house.

Strangelove
Originally posted by Imaginary
Withdrawal from the UN?

Oh, bloody brilliant roll eyes (sarcastic) Not just withdrawal from the UN, he wants to see it disbanded. He also wants to abolish the Department of Education, Department of Energy, FEMA, NATO, the WTO, the CIA, the IRS, etc....and while I don't necessarily think that those are all good organizations, it seems too radical a position to me.

Bardock42
Has some good points. And some weird ones. All in all probably the best candidate altogether in my opinion though.

Czarina_Czarina
Originally posted by Healing Artisan
i dont follow politics too much but many consider him to be a "real republican"

ok, but what do you think about libertarianism?

Darth_Erebus2
Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina


What do you think about the Libertarian Party?






That we're in a world of shit if it ever comes to power. Libertarians are Republicans on steroids. Libertarians advocate "liberty" for those only with large amounts of money. They want to take power away from government and give that power to giant corporations. What middle class? What America? The global elite are the libertarians.

Kinneary
Libs believe the government is incompetent, as they have shown over and over again, and that with small regulation, capitalism and competition leads to a better product and service. Which, at least in my experience, is quite true.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
That we're in a world of shit if it ever comes to power. Libertarians are Republicans on steroids. Libertarians advocate "liberty" for those only with large amounts of money. They want to take power away from government and give that power to giant corporations. What middle class? What America? The global elite are the libertarians.

What bullshit.

botankus
Everytime the GDF page loads, I automatically think this thread reads "RuPaul for President."

Darth_Erebus2
Originally posted by Bardock42
What bullshit.


Obviously you don't know shit.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Obviously you don't know shit. Haha, or you were just fed social(ist) propaganda instead of thinking for yourself and understand the fundamental use and truth of the libertarian approach.

Darth_Erebus2
Originally posted by Bardock42
Haha, or you were just fed social(ist) propaganda instead of thinking for yourself and understand the fundamental use and truth of the libertarian approach.

First of all, I'm not a socialist. I fully understand that it's a market economy that drives economic growth. But one need only look at the current sub prime meltdown in the US to see what happens when business functions without regulation. Libertarians aren't against monopolies. Libertarians favor unrestricted immigration. Libertarians favor allowing corporate interests to supersede national interests. This model simply doesn't work for "liberty". It serves only to concentrate wealth and turn give financial entities power that should belong to political ones.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
First of all, I'm not a socialist. I fully understand that it's a market economy that drives economic growth. But one need only look at the current sub prime meltdown in the US to see what happens when business functions without regulation. Libertarians aren't against monopolies. Libertarians favor unrestricted immigration. Libertarians favor allowing corporate interests to supersede national interests. This model simply doesn't work for "liberty". It serves only to concentrate wealth and turn give financial entities power that should belong to political ones.

I didn't say you were a socialist.

Libertarians are not for corporations. They are for freedom of everyone. You don't actually consider the US a libertarian country, do you?

Darth_Erebus2
Originally posted by Bardock42
I didn't say you were a socialist.

Libertarians are not for corporations. They are for freedom of everyone. You don't actually consider the US a libertarian country, do you?


Freedom for everyone? What a joke. Look closely at the Libertarian agenda and the only result of them coming to power is big business controls everything.

Fishy
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Freedom for everyone? What a joke. Look closely at the Libertarian agenda and the only result of them coming to power is big business controls everything.

What liberals do in the US isn't necessarily what Liberals should be doing.

Never the less, from what I can see they still allow for more personal freedoms then most republicans. Only problem is that they are heavily conservative liberals compared to most liberals in other country's, because of the powerful republican party in the US.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Fishy
What liberals do in the US isn't necessarily what Liberals should be doing.

Never the less, from what I can see they still allow for more personal freedoms then most republicans. Only problem is that they are heavily conservative liberals compared to most liberals in other country's, because of the powerful republican party in the US. Though to be fair, we are talking about libertarians.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Freedom for everyone? What a joke. Look closely at the Libertarian agenda and the only result of them coming to power is big business controls everything. Haha...yes, freedom for everyone. no expression

What do you base your bullshit "big businesses control everything" on?

inimalist
Originally posted by Bardock42
What do you base your bullshit "big businesses control everything" on?

anarcho-capitalism?

lol

Darth_Erebus2
Originally posted by Bardock42


What do you base your bullshit "big businesses control everything" on?


It's not bullshit. What do you think will happen if there is no government law?

Corporations will be able to merge at will eliminating competition and giving them the ability to manipulate markets.

Unlimited free trade meaning wherever the cheapest labor is.

No recourse for average citizens against the powers that be IE "big business".

Without government to keep them in check, large corporations in effect become the government, without the checks and balances, since they control the money.

Only a niave fool believes that everone would be "free" if you removed government from the picture.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
It's not bullshit. What do you think will happen if there is no government law?

Corporations will be able to merge at will eliminating competition and giving them the ability to manipulate markets.

Unlimited free trade meaning wherever the cheapest labor is.

No recourse for average citizens against the powers that be IE "big business".

Without government to keep them in check, large corporations in effect become the government, without the checks and balances, since they control the money.

Only a niave fool believes that everone would be "free" if you removed government from the picture.

We are talking about libertarians, not anarchists.

You not knowing the difference does discredit your opinion quite a bit though, in my opinion..

In a way I agree with the things you said about anarchism though, just, that it has more problems than just corporations killing everyone.

Darth_Erebus2
Originally posted by Bardock42
We are talking about libertarians, not anarchists.

.

Libertarians basically ARE anarchists.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Libertarians basically ARE anarchists. Inaccurate.

Kinneary
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Libertarians basically ARE anarchists.
No. Not at all.

Grimm22
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
That we're in a world of shit if it ever comes to power. Libertarians are Republicans on steroids. Libertarians advocate "liberty" for those only with large amounts of money. They want to take power away from government and give that power to giant corporations. What middle class? What America? The global elite are the libertarians.

What the f**k?

Um, as a libertarian myself, I can honestly say you're a idiot wink

Darth_Erebus2
It's no surprise that none of you can say WHY I'm an idiot or exactly HOW I'm wrong.

Strangelove
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
It's no surprise that none of you can say WHY I'm an idiot or exactly HOW I'm wrong. Because everyone knows you're wrong except you happy

Bardock42
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
It's no surprise that none of you can say WHY I'm an idiot or exactly HOW I'm wrong.

Libertarians want a government.

There you have it you idiot.

Darth_Erebus2
Originally posted by Bardock42
Libertarians want a government.

There you have it you idiot.

Well, that's a well reasoned intelligent post....NOT! Libertarians may want a government but they don't want it to have any teeth. What a moron you are.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Well, that's a well reasoned intelligent post....NOT! Libertarians may want a government but they don't want it to have any teeth. What a moron you are.

Obviously you do not know one thing about libertarian believes. As I thought you were just fed propaganda and don't think for yourself. You are the equivalent of a redneck saying that Democrats want to create a communist society.

Czarina_Czarina
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Libertarians basically ARE anarchists.

wrong. read the constitution. it's starts with the mind and property, meaning, i don't tell you what to think of yourself, you have freedom of association (meaning i am not to tell you who you should associate with, now, if they don't want to associate with you, that's not the issue, the issue is no one should tell you who you should associate with, esp. if there is a mutual acceptance, what some controlling folks try to do is create disharmony so that there is a break in mutual acceptance, and then, they inadvertanly control that person's freedom of assocition). people don't have a right to your property (your life, work, income).

if you see what fraud means, fraud means force, if i force myself into your mind, it brings you to slavery.

Czarina_Czarina
Originally posted by Bardock42
(edit by CC) you (edit) don't think for yourself.

+1

inimalist
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Well, that's a well reasoned intelligent post....NOT! Libertarians may want a government but they don't want it to have any teeth. What a moron you are.

Libertarians are for a VERY powerful state, and a very centralized state, however, they are interested in a state with limited application of said "teethy" power.

wink

most Libertarians are notoriously tough on crime.

Czarina_Czarina
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Libertarians basically ARE anarchists.

and about the mind, if you want to be a pawn to a group or cause, let's say for beneficial or alterist motivation(s), as long as it's concentual, I can't say that you are being a slave to them, unless you don't want to offer that service and your mind is being forced into it.

and if you want to offer it to a group that looks like you or not, it's not up to me to tell you which group you can associate with (freedom of association), esp. if it's mutual. if i try to intervene and make trouble, and go to them reporting bad news about you and in turn, going to you reporting bad things about them, i'm forcing my will upon you in a indirect manner, yet still aggressive in action. and my motive of this is wrong if this group isn't violating the liberty of another, no matter if that group looks like neither you nor I.

if that group isn't causing you or I to lose income (the right to earn income), association (slander), robbing your home or bank account, or raping your body or mind; if that group isn't violating another person's liberty, why would i tell you or anyone else who you should associate with whom or how you ought to think?

Dreamt
Originally posted by Imaginary
Withdrawal from the UN?

Oh, bloody brilliant roll eyes (sarcastic) Slightly off topic, but it's ironic how many UN countries hate America, yet the UN itself is on American Soil.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Libertarians basically ARE anarchists. laughing

Captain REX
Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
+1

Editing quotes can be considered bashing, CC, especially when it doesn't contribute to anything and is not done in good humor.

Don't do it again.

Czarina_Czarina
Originally posted by Captain REX
Editing quotes can be considered bashing, CC, especially when it doesn't contribute to anything and is not done in good humor.

Don't do it again.


Ok thanks.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
Have you guys even heard of him, I haven't.

What do you think about the Libertarian Party?



http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism He's not that bad, he won't win though.

Czarina_Czarina
Originally posted by lord xyz
He's not that bad, he won't win though.

It's too far away to decide who's the best match for Americans.

Really wanting to know if he was a true libertarian or moderate one.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
It's too far away to decide who's the best match for Americans.

Really wanting to know if he was a true libertarian or moderate one. He's not a true libertarian. I wouldn't call him moderate either though.

BobbyD
I'll say this much, he's a touch bizarre for me, though I understand where he's coming from.

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