Origin of Hobbits and Sauron's Powers?

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Captain REX
The Silmarrilion emphasizes the beginning of Middle-earth, the birth of the Elves, the birth of Men, and the birth of Dwarves, and al that other stuff, but it never says one word about where Hobbits originated or when.

And Sauron dies at least twice in the Silmarrilion. How so?

mah
em..Sauron dies twice in hte Simlarillion?

Ushgarak
Don't be confusing big, even seemingly total, defeats of Sauron with his actual, genuine death. Evenm after the Ring is destroyed his essence is only permanently dispersed, not destroyed.

Captain REX
I think so...

Sauron gets pulled into the void that the Valar make in the sea, or something like that, in the destruction of the Numanorean's city.

Dexx
hmm..must finish the book first. Can't talk about what i don't know...yet

glorfindel
Why not? IT,s never stopped me LOL.
yes sauron lost his phiycal form a few times but as ush. said(typed) his spirit lives on. mad evil face
as for hobbits I just don,t know eek!
I think they just turn up. after all the dwarfs were held back so as the elves would be first born, then came the dwarfs, then men then hobbits?? stick out tongue

Dexx
cronology's something else....it's how they appeared that's confusing/

glorfindel
every one has to start somewhere.

Dexx
Must finish the book firts. I'm only at the "beren and Luthien" chapter ( amaisingsmile ) But it would be strange not mentioning the hobbits.
About sauron's powers...he was Morgoth's closest and most powerfull servant. Morgoth makes his own ...staff, so he's responsible for all of sauron's abillities

glorfindel
sorry morgoth does not make his own staff.... they are corrupted by him ,he is not able to make new life only ERU can do that big grin

LanceWindu
Maybe the Hobbits are nothing but a cross breed of Elves and Dwarves

mah
big grin that would be something

Ushgarak
Dwelves.

glorfindel
the movie would have to be an 18 or x smokin'

Dexx
didn't mean "make" as in create...

glorfindel
sorry what did u mean?

Dexx
i mean morgth's servants became that way through his actions. He didn't literally create life....only bend it.

glorfindel
that must hurt

Captain REX
Like bending my finger back until...OWW!!!...it snaps off like this?

*holds up finger*

A.D. Skinner
So since the "in" thing now is to be drudging up old threads..I thought that I would do my part in helping getting this Forum back to it's roots...

I found this thread and it asks a very interesting question...

Where did Hobbits come from and when ? Can anyone field this answer ?

Exa

Fëanor
i think...that in foresight...iluvatar created the hobbits with the valar ignorant of the fact...he(ilu) knew the hearts of men and the unwillingness of the elves and the mandate placed upon the valar to not interfere in the affairs of men, esp in the third age...the hobbits had the qualities of both elves and men...e.g. the ears and the mortal life span...their size was due to the fact that the two elder races would think nothing or very little of them when it came to war with sauron...even sauron and saruman thought little of them...looked what happened to them...

no man or elf or dwarf for that matter could have stirred treebeard and ents to fight saruman...

a man and an elf in the end would have given up hope if they were burdened to take the ring to mt. doom...or used it for themselves...

a hobbit is an enigma that tolkien didn't explain much, but i think that that's what they are: Iluvatar took the qualities of all three races to make the hobbit...

but then again i could be wrong... stick out tongue

sauron
opinions on hobbits of some are actually that they are elves that became mortal...or men who had longer lives.
although they did appear on middle earth shortly after the arrival of the istari leading to the belief of some that they were from valinor, which of course i do not believe, some of their qualities would make this seem reasonable, frodo and bilbos amazing resistance to the ring is one, but never was it stated in the silmarillion of their baing hobbits in valinor, in fact it only ever states that there is any other race there apart from vala maia and elves in one part of the book, when the men of numenor land to conquer, and of course are defeated and 'trapped' until the final battle aka the dagor dagorath

it also never states that the hobbits landed WITH the istari, as cirdans tale of events says only the istari landed.


so hobbits came from...who knows....tolkien does, but try asking a corpse a question.


i believe that the hobbits could be in some way connected to tom bombadil only a much lesser being than he
both small, both can resist the ring for a time although over tom the ring has no power over...both have a love for verse

well...as i have said nobody really knows

sauron
scratch that bilbo, frodo and sam are the only hobbits allowed into valinor
if hobbits were desended from elves then i believe they too would be allowed into valinor.


also sauron is not killed in the silmarillion, sauron is never killed in any written work by tolkien, he is a maia and while their physical body may indeed be destroyed, the maia spirit in them will survive and can take on another form.

shadowy_blue
The prologue of the LOTR gives the most information on Hobbit origins. These origins are lost in the mists of time, since Hobbits did not record them and Elves did not pay much attention to other races. At one point, Hobbit ancestors lived in the Vales of Anduin. Then numbers of them moved west.

Most interesting to me is that each branch of the Hobbits seems to have close ties to another race of Middle-earth, just like Feanor said. In the case of the Fallohides, they actually have some physical resemblance to the other races. The Harfoots, that came to be the dominant group of Hobbits, initially had much to do with Dwarves. They were browner and shorter. (I think Sam is Harfoot.) They moved westward earliest. Not surprisingly, with the Dwarf influence, they were the ones who came to live in tunnels and holes. The Stoors mixed more with Men; they came west later. They were the ones who liked boats, swimming, etc. since they lived by the river a long time. This was Smeagol's ancestry. The most intriguing to me were the Fallohides who were most like the Elves. They loved forests, were taller and slimmer, more adventurous, fairer of skin and hair, loved language and song, and in ancient times practiced hunting rather than agriculture.

The Fallohides provided many of the Hobbit leaders. Merry, Pippin, and Frodo all had Fallohide blood. I often wonder if some wandering Avari elf and some ancient Hobbit ancestor came together at least once to leave some special traits and genes for the Fallohides! We know Hobbit origin goes back before the Third Age.

No way to prove this. But it would go far towards explaining why Faramir can say that Frodo looks Elvish, and why Frodo is an Elf-friend and has visions of Elvenhome, or why Goldberry sees the light of an elf-lover in his eyes, or why he comments on his yearning for the sound of the Sea while in Rivendell. It would also place in context the last two lines of Galadriel's song to the departing Fellowship where she says "may you find Valinor". Tolkien explicitly says in The Road Goes Ever On that these two lines are addressed specifically to Frodo.

It could also be another reason for Sam's close emotional attachment to Frodo. Perhaps, like Faramir, he can sense some ancient throwback genes or traits. (You know how Sam likes Elves.)

Again, this is wild speculation. Maybe Frodo just likes Elves and Elvenhome, and there's no genetic component. That's certainly the case, for example, with Sam who has no Fallohide blood. And all the references to the Sea and the West could simply be preparing Frodo and us for the fact that he will have to go there for healing after the quest. But, then again, you never know...

For the nth time, I'm in no way saying that those I've posted are facts, they are just my wild speculations. wink stick out tongue

Bar-en-Danwedh

Smodden
while others moved west some did stay and fish the river...and it is interesting that many 'modern' day hobbits are afraid of water...messed




laughing...THAT thought has NEVER enterd my mind before...very interesting...



now that i think of it the idea isn't that far fetched...stick out tongue...elves and hobbits have numerous similarities...
physical traits...(ears)
and some vague ''spiritual'' traits...like lovers of song ect...

although i think it is most prominent in Frodo...then any of the other hobbits..imho


yes...somethings tolkien didn't explain...and i think its done intentionally...so as to leave us thinking and wondering, for ourselves...smile

Agent Elrond

sauron
maybe a hobbit is simply a hobbit
nothing else
always was a hobbit
always will be a hobbit

not evolved from anything

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