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Three Supreme beings within thier omniverses. Actually Mom may be surpeme out side of the omniverse. Not sure. So who wins?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Three Supreme beings within thier omniverses. Actually Mom may be surpeme out side of the omniverse. Not sure. So who wins?

Isn't Elaine more powerful than Lucifer or Michael

how could anyone defeat thanos?

thanos wins as his feats speak for themselves.

Originally posted by guy222
Isn't Elaine more powerful than Lucifer or Michael

Yes. She is God of Vertigo.

id like t see some scans of elaines most impressive feats. bet i wont though.

Originally posted by guy222
Isn't Elaine more powerful than Lucifer or Michael

Lucifer is more powerful. He is older and smarter then her. She does have the power but Lucifer has will power and is a lot smarter then her. Michael is also more powerful he had those powers longer and would know how to use them better. He is Lucifers twin and they was made by God to be equals.

Originally posted by kevdude
Lucifer is more powerful. He is older and smarter then her. She does have the power but Lucifer has will power and is a lot smarter then her. Michael is also more powerful he had those powers longer and would know how to use them better. He is Lucifers twin and they was made by God to be equals. how can michael be more powerful when Elaine has michael's power? And Elaine is the ruler and took god's place as God?

Well in Michaels real form he is more powerful then her having his powers. He's had them since he was created and he was created to take over for his Father. Elaine is used by God because the twins wouldn't take there place. Elaine as ruler I would agree is more powerful. She is still being used by God.

MOM wins. All have shown weakness and faults except MOM he/she truly is god.

Originally posted by kevdude
Well in Michaels real form he is more powerful then her having his powers. He's had them since he was created and he was created to take over for his Father. Elaine is used by God because the twins wouldn't take there place. Elaine as ruler I would agree is more powerful. She is still being used by God. basically thanos wins here. he was supreme and no one was better. he proved it on panel as well. does anyone else here have these combat feats like thanos has.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5044/elainepowerfa6.jpg

A clarrification : Elaine (Yaweh's place) > Lucifer = Michael = Elaine (Michael's power)

As for the subject at hand , Thanos isn't even in their league seeing as how he is at best a Multiversal power while Elaine and MoM are gods .

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
A clarrification : Elaine (Yaweh's place) > Lucifer = Michael = Elaine (Michael's power)

As for the subject at hand , Thanos isn't even in their league seeing as how he is at best a Multiversal power while Elaine and MoM are gods . thanos was supreme and almighty. thanos wins here as he has feats. show me some scnas of feats that puts anyone above him in combat.

MoM stands for Man of Miracles, right--but he's only an aspect of "Mother".
As for this thread.

External Forces > Yahweh = Elaine
Mother > MoM
Thanos w/ Heart = supreme

Thanos cannot lose, unles fighting a writer--which seems messed up.

Originally posted by Astner
MoM stands for Man of Miracles, right--but he's only an aspect of "Mother".
As for this thread.

External Forces > Yahweh = Elaine
Mother > MoM
Thanos w/ Heart = supreme

Thanos cannot lose, unles fighting a writer--which seems messed up. correct. thanos cant lose as established in the comic.

Originally posted by Astner
MoM stands for Man of Miracles, right--but he's only an aspect of "Mother".
As for this thread.

External Forces > Yahweh = Elaine
Mother > MoM
Thanos w/ Heart = supreme

Thanos cannot lose, unles fighting a writer--which seems messed up.


The "External Forces" are the DC writers...just like the TOAA are the writers in Marvel....so, Yahweh=Thanos/w HOTI

Originally posted by quanchi112
correct. thanos cant lose as established in the comic.


Thanos can lose if the TOAA writes him to lose

thanos with the HOTU destroyed the 616 reality and all other universes connected to it. he didnt destroy anything OUTSIDE it, not the void, not the beyond realm. it was ONE multiverse at max{warlock survived}. and the HOTU remade the multiverse.

elaine on the other hand single handedly created her multiverse{without micheal or lucifer i think} accidentally without burning out her power at all. her peers in power, micheal and lucifer have each created more than one/stood at ground zero of multiverse shattering explosions{like THOTU did ONCE and it was the extenet of its power} without suffering a scratch and can easily exist in the void etc.

neither thanos nor THOTU is in the same league as them. elaine will write the HOTU out of existance with a thought if she wished.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
thanos with the HOTU destroyed the 616 reality and all other universes connected to it. he didnt destroy anything OUTSIDE it, not the void, not the beyond realm. it was ONE multiverse at max{warlock survived}. and the HOTU remade the multiverse.

elaine on the other hand single handedly created her multiverse{without micheal or lucifer i think} accidentally without burning out her power at all. her peers in power, micheal and lucifer have each created more than one/stood at ground zero of multiverse shattering explosions{like THOTU did ONCE and it was the extenet of its power} without suffering a scratch and can easily exist in the void etc.

neither thanos nor THOTU is in the same league as them. elaine will write the HOTU out of existance with a thought if she wished.
But you are aware of him overpowering the Living Tribunal, that itself is far greater than destroying and recreating the omniverse.

Originally posted by Astner
But you are aware of him overpowering the Living Tribunal, that itself is far greater than destroying and recreating the omniverse.

Why? when has the LT ever done anything Omniversal? What Multiverses or Omniverses has the LT destroyed or created all at once?

its a PIS feat where people CLAIM he is holding two omniverses. when he can not infact do so as an omniverse implies all realities of all comic book publishers. and there is only one multiverse in marvel. sorta like how genis vell is now an OMNIVERSAL TELEPATH and scarlet which in house of m with her chaos wave cud destroy the omniverse. etc etc.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
its a PIS feat where people CLAIM he is holding two omniverses. when he can not infact do so as an omniverse implies all realities of all comic book publishers. and there is only one multiverse in marvel. sorta like how genis vell is now an OMNIVERSAL TELEPATH and scarlet which in house of m with her chaos wave cud destroy the omniverse. etc etc.

We went over this months ago. Most writers use omniverse to prescribe to all things medium including tv, comic books, cartoons, ect. But marvel and dc have both used omniverse a couple times now. Grant morrison wrote a book in which he describes how the comics omniverse was created. By the Lord of Time.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
its a PIS feat where people CLAIM he is holding two omniverses. when he can not infact do so as an omniverse implies all realities of all comic book publishers. and there is only one multiverse in marvel. sorta like how genis vell is now an OMNIVERSAL TELEPATH and scarlet which in house of m with her chaos wave cud destroy the omniverse. etc etc. Um, he was holding to megaverses, noit Omniverses.

And Marvel has more then one multiverse.

MOM-Mother Of Creation. She has Always been Supreme, and always will be. In Image, there is No Higher Power Than Herself.



Elaine is more powerful than Lucifer and Micheal, but she wasn't always omnipotent. She had to become so. She created one multiverse and merged two others with it. She will still never surpass Yahweh.


Thanos w HOTI was omnipotent for a short time, through acquisition, not through his own natural power, and was being manipulated by the TOAA. He will still NEVER surpass TOAA,.



Mother of Creation/MOM is the only being out of the three who is pure omnipotence, on her own, without the AID of any evolution or artifact of power. She takes it. She needs not surpass anyone, for she is the end all.


She is Image's TOAA/Presence.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
thanos with the HOTU destroyed the 616 reality and all other universes connected to it.

Correct.

That's the Omniverse.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
he didnt destroy anything OUTSIDE it,

Anything outside Time & Space specifically.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
not the void,

What's there to destroy?

In any case,

That's because Thanos turned Time & Space into a Void.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
not the beyond realm.

That's because it's located outside of Time & Space.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it was ONE multiverse at max{warlock survived}.

Warlock survived because he was attending Atleza with Gamora.

Atlea's Realm is Outside if Time & Space.

Thanos only absorbed all the Time & Space in the Omniverse.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and the HOTU remade the multiverse.

Along with the Omniverse.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
elaine on the other hand single handedly created her multiverse{without micheal or lucifer i think}

Thanos re-created from nothingness All of Time & Space in Marvel.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
accidentally without burning out her power at all.

Thanos never bunrt out his powers either.

Thanos obliterated the Heart himself.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
her peers in power, micheal and lucifer

THOTI's peers?

None.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
have each created more than one/stood at ground zero of multiverse shattering explosions{like THOTU did ONCE and it was the extenet of its power} without suffering a scratch

Thanos didn't receive a scratch either when the LT (who can crush MegaverseS in one hand)
attacked Thanos.

...................................................................................

" The Tribunal is serene in His OMNIPOTENCE"

"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him,

for He is its HEART,

ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,


a Destiny spun by His mighty hand"

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2936/ltrulescl3.th.jpg

"A Hand soon opening to allow TWO Brothers

to assume their pre-destined Roles as Architects of New Realities ...

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6986/thmyi8.th.jpg

and ONLY this Judge knows why"

...................................................................................


Each Megaverse is a collection of MultiverseS:


(excerpt fro the Official Marvel Handbook 2006)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg

"Within the Omniverse,

collections of associated realms from different Multiverses are referred to as Megaverses"

...................................................................................

That same LT, who holds the embodiments of Two MegaverseS in one hand,

getting stomped by THOTI:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and can easily exist in the void etc.

And?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
neither thanos nor THOTU is in the same league as them.
elaine will write the HOTU out of existance with a thought if she wished.

5funny

Originally posted by Mr Master
Correct.

That's the Omniverse.



Anything outside Time & Space specifically.



What's there to destroy?

In any case,

That's because Thanos turned Time & Space into a Void.



That's because it's located outside of Time & Space.



Warlock survived because he was attending Atleza with Gamora.

Atlea's Realm is Outside if Time & Space.

Thanos only absorbed all the Time & Space in the Omniverse.



Along with the Omniverse.



Thanos re-created from nothingness All of Time & Space in Marvel.



Thanos never bunrt out his powers either.

Thanos obliterated the Heart himself.



THOTI's peers?

None.



Thanos didn't receive a scratch either when the LT (who can crush MegaverseS in one hand)
attacked Thanos.

...................................................................................

" The Tribunal is serene in His OMNIPOTENCE"

"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him,

for He is its HEART,

ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,


a Destiny spun by His mighty hand"

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2936/ltrulescl3.th.jpg

"A Hand soon opening to allow TWO Brothers

to assume their pre-destined Roles as Architects of New Realities ...

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6986/thmyi8.th.jpg

and ONLY this Judge knows why"

...................................................................................


Each Megaverse is a collection of MultiverseS:


(excerpt fro the Official Marvel Handbook 2006)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg

"Within the Omniverse,

collections of associated realms from different Multiverses are referred to as Megaverses"

...................................................................................

That same LT, who holds the embodiments of Two MegaverseS in one hand,

getting stomped by THOTI:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg



And?



5funny always well thought out posts with meat to them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
how could anyone defeat thanos?

thanos wins as his feats speak for themselves.

MOM beats Thanos

Originally posted by guy222
MOM beats Thanos does mom have any combat feats equal to thanos?

Originally posted by quanchi112
does mom have any combat feats equal to thanos?


She doesn't need to fight. She is naturally infinite and eternal. She created God, Satan, GodSpawn, and Urizen. She has countless children who are Immortal and All-Powerful within themselves.


All the wisdom, power, time/space, and every other aspect of Image's existance belongs to her.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
She doesn't need to fight. She is naturally infinite and eternal. She created God, Satan, GodSpawn, and Urizen. She has countless children who are Immortal and All-Powerful within themselves.


All the wisdom, power, time/space, and every other aspect of Image's existance belongs to her. well then in image she is supreme but in marvel she isnt. thanos was supreme on panel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
well then in image she is supreme but in marvel she isnt. thanos was supreme on panel.

It matters not whether Thanos was supreme in Marvel. What matters is MOM is supreme in Image they stalemate. Just because Thanos was supreme in Marvel, which is a big stretch doesn't put him over MoM unless you hate Image

Originally posted by kevdude
It matters not whether Thanos was supreme in Marvel. What matters is MOM is supreme in Image they stalemate. Just because Thanos was supreme in Marvel, which is a big stretch doesn't put him over MoM unless you hate Image well if thanos has feats and mom doesnt shouldnt that give thanos the slight edge?

If they are both stated to be Supreme then it shouldn't matter unless there is doubt that MOM is not supreme.

untrue. that is a singular multiverse. the megaverse wud comprise of the beyond realm and the void which wasnt in time or space itself. it wud also consist of death etc and anti time/space abstracts. plus all things beyond eternity/infinite.

the OMNIVERSE on the other hand consists of all such relaities{ANYTHING that has ever been hinted or shown to be a defineable construct in ALL other comic publishers}





yes. and those comprise of the marvel megaverse. it isnt just the 616 reality and the multiverse surrounding it




the concepts of destruction itself and the concept of nuthingness. remember what strange saw inside the beyonder? "power to CREATE POWER and THINGS BEYOND"

lucifer/micheal/elaine are all beyond destruction/death etc. lucifer cud kill death if he wished and this was confirmed by death. the beyonder KILLED death.




hence sumthing of the reality survived, even if it wasnt traditional EXISTANCE. thanos did not have power over it and hence wasnt SUPREME.




so you admit there were things he didnt have power over. hence u cant call it ALL OF MARVEL REALITY. and he isnt supreme in the megaverse.
and already adressed, it wasnt the omniverse, it wasnt even the megaverse, it was just the multiverse. a single one.




untrue. its already explained that it wasnt even the MEGAVERSE. let alone the omniverse. go up to the definitions.





RE created. not just CREATED, without any context. furthermore, he didnt REcreate death. or the beyond realm or NUTHINGNESS. tmie and space and eternity/infinite. two VERY falliable abstracts that have been beaten/killed before by beings like abraxas and destroyed by the infinity gauntlett. it is just ONE multiverse.




it wasnt his power. and i was merely elaborating that that wasnt an end all feat. just a casual one.





beyonder, ultimate nullifier, TOAA, roma, scarlett witch in house of m with chaos. not really peers but infact superior.





LT can not crush megaverses{initially u claimed they were omniverses} he PROTECTS a singular multiverse. he has no power over the void and beyond realm of marvel which ALONG WITH THE SINGULAR MULTIVERSE COMPRISE THE MARVEL MEGAVERSE. he has no power over the megaverses of another comic book publisher. it is called COPYRIGHT, sumthing even the supreme being{TOAA} or his pencil can not surpass. get used to the idea.




hyperbole, bull. i cud give tons more quotes and poetic dialogue which has been used to describe every1 from galactus to eternity to the ifinites and not excluding the dimensional fortress/infinity/genis/phoenix/shiar crystal/beyonder etc.

he has no authority over anything more than the singular multiverse of marvel





official handbook is in ignorance, as it fails to account the realms OUTSIDE the multiverse but still in the confines of the comic publisher. they also comprise the publisher's megaverse.

marvel megaverse= singular multiverse+beyond realm+void+infinity being{although it is sysnonomous with the multiverse and its abstracts}

ofcourse u shud know there are NUMEROUS discrepancies in the official handbook.




it is PIS. LT is PART of a singular megaverse. remember, even the supreme pencil can not surpass copyright.

Originally posted by Power16
If they are both stated to be Supreme then it shouldn't matter unless there is doubt that MOM is not supreme. true if mom is supreme there prolly would be a stalemate. i just like supremacy and proving it on panel. gives u evidence but if mom is supreme then its a stalemate.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
untrue. that is a singular multiverse. the megaverse wud comprise of the beyond realm and the void which wasnt in time or space itself. it wud also consist of death etc and anti time/space abstracts. plus all things beyond eternity/infinite.

the OMNIVERSE on the other hand consists of all such relaities{ANYTHING that has ever been hinted or shown to be a defineable construct in ALL other comic publishers}

yes. and those comprise of the marvel megaverse. it isnt just the 616 reality and the multiverse surrounding it

the concepts of destruction itself and the concept of nuthingness. remember what strange saw inside the beyonder? "power to CREATE POWER and THINGS BEYOND"

lucifer/micheal/elaine are all beyond destruction/death etc. lucifer cud kill death if he wished and this was confirmed by death. the beyonder KILLED death.

hence sumthing of the reality survived, even if it wasnt traditional EXISTANCE. thanos did not have power over it and hence wasnt SUPREME.

so you admit there were things he didnt have power over. hence u cant call it ALL OF MARVEL REALITY. and he isnt supreme in the megaverse.
and already adressed, it wasnt the omniverse, it wasnt even the megaverse, it was just the multiverse. a single one.

untrue. its already explained that it wasnt even the MEGAVERSE. let alone the omniverse. go up to the definitions.

RE created. not just CREATED, without any context. furthermore, he didnt REcreate death. or the beyond realm or NUTHINGNESS. tmie and space and eternity/infinite. two VERY falliable abstracts that have been beaten/killed before by beings like abraxas and destroyed by the infinity gauntlett. it is just ONE multiverse.

it wasnt his power. and i was merely elaborating that that wasnt an end all feat. just a casual one.

beyonder, ultimate nullifier, TOAA, roma, scarlett witch in house of m with chaos. not really peers but infact superior.

LT can not crush megaverses{initially u claimed they were omniverses} he PROTECTS a singular multiverse. he has no power over the void and beyond realm of marvel which ALONG WITH THE SINGULAR MULTIVERSE COMPRISE THE MARVEL MEGAVERSE. he has no power over the megaverses of another comic book publisher. it is called COPYRIGHT, sumthing even the supreme being{TOAA} or his pencil can not surpass. get used to the idea.

hyperbole, bull. i cud give tons more quotes and poetic dialogue which has been used to describe every1 from galactus to eternity to the ifinites and not excluding the dimensional fortress/infinity/genis/phoenix/shiar crystal/beyonder etc.

he has no authority over anything more than the singular multiverse of marvel

official handbook is in ignorance, as it fails to account the realms OUTSIDE the multiverse but still in the confines of the comic publisher. they also comprise the publisher's megaverse.

marvel megaverse= singular multiverse+beyond realm+void+infinity being{although it is sysnonomous with the multiverse and its abstracts}

ofcourse u shud know there are NUMEROUS discrepancies in the official handbook.

it is PIS. LT is PART of a singular megaverse. remember, even the supreme pencil can not surpass copyright.

Yes ok,

All the On Panel evidence I gave you is "poetic hyperbole"

All the official Handdbooks are "ignorant"

The Two official Marvel websites are "making things up"


But thank goodness we have you here, to correct all that.

Yes I know your opinion contradicts everything that took place in
Marvel Comics On Panel,
that's stated in the Official Marvel Handbooks,
and established on the Official Marvel websites.

But somehow you have to still be right. crazy

Reminds me a lot of you.

This is a battle between Elaine and MOM in my opinion... which could be a stalement

Thanos is irrelevant here as he wasn't supreme like TOAA

Originally posted by rico777
This is a battle between Elaine and MOM in my opinion... which could be a stalement

Thanos is irrelevant here as he wasn't supreme like TOAA

MOM beats Elaine. Elaine Is a stalemate for Thanos with the Heart. MOM is above both she answers to no one. Elaine Answers to the Presence and Thanos answers to the one above all. MOM won this fight before it began.

it is at this point just like it is at many others. and this is just one.




no but u r. the things you are extrapulating from their words is making things up. specially when things like "supreme" is thrown around like garbage




well, that is ur oppinion isnt it. im flattered anyway.

your opinion contradicts everything that took place in
Marvel Comics On Panel,
that's stated in the Official Marvel Handbooks,
and established on the Official Marvel websites.

completely and utterly untru. it contradicts small parts of a large number of statements given in either. but is in accordance with the GREATER number of on panel feats{exponentially} than it is contradicting the handfull of PIS feats u mentioned.

on the other hand it is mostly in opposition of the majority of YOUR wildly extrapulant and contradictory claims.



read above. n no, u made my job a lot easier by being WRONG. i just have to state the case of sanity.

remember, NO1, surpasses the rules of earthly copyright.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
MOM beats Elaine. Elaine Is a stalemate for Thanos with the Heart. MOM is above both she answers to no one. Elaine Answers to the Presence and Thanos answers to the one above all. MOM won this fight before it began.



Yep

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
MOM beats Elaine. Elaine Is a stalemate for Thanos with the Heart. MOM is above both she answers to no one. Elaine Answers to the Presence and Thanos answers to the one above all. MOM won this fight before it began. elaine loses right off the bat. she cant hang with either one. thanos answered to no one. he became god and was supreme on panel. thanos and mom stalemate.

wrong. this has been dealt with. thanos was not surpeme. just a singular multiversal threat. remembre the rule of copyright. plus parts of marvel were not affected. elaine would blink him out of existance.

as to elaine vs mom. i cant say. elaine doesnt really answer to the presence. and micheal only did because he willingly submitted. lucifer is trying to overthrow the presence and hes a threat even the presence considers fit to take its place.

mom is too abstract and undefined at the time to be explained.

although lucifer did talk once about the infinity heirarchy of gods above the presence that neither he nor the presence could comprehend.

read back to my previous rebuttals quanchi.

This shit again?

Please, explain how Warlock could have been "outside of time and space" when he had a body and could move around (space) and he could think and experience time passing (time).

Don't give me the old "the comic said it so it's canon" excuse, that doesn't apply to things that are logically impossible. If a comic said that 2 + 2 = 5, would you believe it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
elaine loses right off the bat. she cant hang with either one. thanos answered to no one. he became god and was supreme on panel. thanos and mom stalemate.


No.


MoM beats Thanos with HOTI. Thanos was still under the manipulation of TOAA, and the HOTI was a piece/icon of TOAA's power.

While Thanos' power was temporary and he only possessed it for a limitted time, that already puts him below MoM, who always had her power, and always will have her power.

Yeah, LT is badass

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
No.


MoM beats Thanos with HOTI. Thanos was still under the manipulation of TOAA, and the HOTI was a piece/icon of TOAA's power.

While Thanos' power was temporary and he only possessed it for a limitted time, that already puts him below MoM, who always had her power, and always will have her power.

Nah dude Thanos and MoM stalemate. If we are going by Elaine just being the God of Vertigo instead of taking the Presence's place then she goes down. TOAA is a different concept and cannot be compared to any other comic character except the one's from Marvel since TOAA has writing authority over Marvel. Thanos became the supreme of Marvel within the comic book world and therefore can be compared to other comic book characters like MoM.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Nah dude Thanos and MoM stalemate. If we are going by Elaine just being the God of Vertigo instead of taking the Presence's place then she goes down. TOAA is a different concept and cannot be compared to any other comic character except the one's from Marvel since TOAA has writing authority over Marvel. Thanos became the supreme of Marvel within the comic book world and therefore can be compared to other comic book characters like MoM.

Youcan't compare the way comic companies run thier companies. ONly the equivs. In Marvel, the one above is all is the ONLY supreme being. In DC, The Presence is the ONLY supreme being. MOM is supreme in image. all others no matter how powerful aren't supreme.

Marvel and DC have on canon panel illustrated that they have a omniverse, each.
- So it is by all means canon.

And Mike, that 2 + 2 = 5 thing, fictions universal laws can vary from our own.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
This shit again?

If I considered what's included/depicted in a comic book as shit,

I simply wouldn't indulge it.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Please, explain how Warlock could have been "outside of time and space" when he had a body and could move around (space) and he could think and experience time passing (time).

Try explaining how people fly in comics?
How mountains are lifted?
How Planets or Galaxies are destroyed or created by humanoids?

And on, and on ...


Anyhow, it's a Marvel Fact for years,
that there are places BEYOND Space & Time in the Marvel Universe,
were several beings have been able to venture into to. (including Warlock)

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg
"Beyond the Realms of Space & Time"



http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg
"I was Outside the influence of Eternity & Infinity"

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Don't give me the old "the comic said it so it's canon" excuse,
that doesn't apply to things that are logically impossible.

Again,

people flying, others picking up buildings, some moving objects with their minds, homegirl controlling the weather, or hey, mythical cats like Thor & Hercules running around.

This is all logically impossible, imo. But it's Comics so ... who

Originally posted by Endless Mike
If a comic said that 2 + 2 = 5, would you believe it?

No.

But erasing or creating Universes is believable?

No, but you accept that fantasy and dismiss another.

It's comics mike, you know that.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Youcan't compare the way comic companies run thier companies. ONly the equivs. In Marvel, the one above is all is the ONLY supreme being. In DC, The Presence is the ONLY supreme being. MOM is supreme in image. all others no matter how powerful aren't supreme. the presence isnt supreme. it tied the geb. thanos with the heart was supreme. u have seen the scans and cant argue with it.

thanoswheart=mom>presence=geb.


this is correct.

MoM stands for Man of Miracles, not Mother of Creation.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
This shit again?

Please, explain how Warlock could have been "outside of time and space" when he had a body and could move around (space) and he could think and experience time passing (time).

Don't give me the old "the comic said it so it's canon" excuse, that doesn't apply to things that are logically impossible. If a comic said that 2 + 2 = 5, would you believe it?
Sorry Mike but I have to side with Mr. M on this one. When dealing with comics logic rarely ever actually factors into is. Think about it...

Logic(and physics for that matter) tell us that there's no way for someone to lift something like a building, airplane, or aircraft carrier because the object in question would collapse under it's own weight. Logic(and again physics) tells us that there's no way anything can exceed the speed of light.

But does that mean that we discount every strength or speed feat where just that kind of thing happens?

Originally posted by quanchi112
the presence isnt supreme. it tied the geb. thanos with the heart was supreme. u have seen the scans and cant argue with it.

thanoswheart=mom>presence=geb.


this is correct.

Wrong . Elaine is now taking over for The Presence who is watching everything beyond creation, on panel. She could destroy all of creation by herself if she wanted (but of course won't cause thats not the plan). Thanos w/thotu = Elaine at the best. MoM is beyond both and equals DC's God. I bet you thought Krona would have gotten stomped by Galactus in the JLA/Avengers but it turned out the other way. I can see where you would think he would equal The Presence or tgeb, but that would mean TOAA gave him almost all his powers away and into a object, then let things take there course, it could have happened but I doubt it.

Then we have the major questions like, if LT or Eternity is so powerful like there written most of the time then why would they have sat back and watched Thanos all that time and done nothing?? Something to think about.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If I considered what's included/depicted in a comic book as shit,

I simply wouldn't indulge it.

What was depicted contradicts what was stated.



All of those things defy physics, but they don't defy logic. You don't seem to understand the difference.



Yet he is still able to move and think. Warlock was obviously just being an idiot and had no clue WTF he was talking about. Characters can be wrong about things, you know.



No, those things are not logically impossible. They are physically impossible, but not logically impossible. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Something logically impossible is something that contradicts itself and cannot possibly be true. For example, 2 + 2 being 5, or a square circle, or being able to move and think outside of time and space. Anytime something appears in fiction which is logically impossible, either it's bad writing and should be ignored, or there's a much simpler expanation (i.e. Warlock was wrong).



Learn the difference between logical contradictions and physical contradictions before trying to debate me again.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry Mike but I have to side with Mr. M on this one. When dealing with comics logic rarely ever actually factors into is. Think about it...

Logic(and physics for that matter) tell us that there's no way for someone to lift something like a building, airplane, or aircraft carrier because the object in question would collapse under it's own weight. Logic(and again physics) tells us that there's no way anything can exceed the speed of light.

But does that mean that we discount every strength or speed feat where just that kind of thing happens?

No, only physics tells us that. Those things are completely possible within a self - consistent logical framework, even if they are physically impossible.

No one here understands the difference between a physical impossibility and a logical impossibility.

Let me give you an example:

Physical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light

Logical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light without moving

Do you see the difference?

Originally posted by kevdude
Wrong . Elaine is now taking over for The Presence who is watching everything beyond creation, on panel. She could destroy all of creation by herself if she wanted (but of course won't cause thats not the plan). Thanos w/thotu = Elaine at the best. MoM is beyond both and equals DC's God. I bet you thought Krona would have gotten stomped by Galactus in the JLA/Avengers but it turned out the other way. I can see where you would think he would equal The Presence or tgeb, but that would mean TOAA gave him almost all his powers away and into a object, then let things take there course, it could have happened but I doubt it.

Then we have the major questions like, if LT or Eternity is so powerful like there written most of the time then why would they have sat back and watched Thanos all that time and done nothing?? Something to think about. ur wrong as the presence couldnt defeat the geb. show me elaine defeating all the uber beings at once like thanos did cuz until u do ur specuating. thats the difference she hasnt done it while thanos has.

thanos with heart=mom>presence=geb>elaine

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, only physics tells us that. Those things are completely possible within a self - consistent logical framework, even if they are physically impossible.

No one here understands the difference between a physical impossibility and a logical impossibility.

Let me give you an example:

Physical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light

Logical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light without moving

Do you see the difference?

How is it logically possible for someone to fly faster than light when it is physically impossible?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What was depicted contradicts what was stated.

All of those things defy physics, but they don't defy logic. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Yet he is still able to move and think. Warlock was obviously just being an idiot and had no clue WTF he was talking about. Characters can be wrong about things, you know.

No, those things are not logically impossible. They are physically impossible, but not logically impossible. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Something logically impossible is something that contradicts itself and cannot possibly be true. For example, 2 + 2 being 5, or a square circle, or being able to move and think outside of time and space. Anytime something appears in fiction which is logically impossible, either it's bad writing and should be ignored, or there's a much simpler expanation (i.e. Warlock was wrong).

Learn the difference between logical contradictions and physical contradictions

before trying to debate me again.
dontgetit
Originally posted by Mr Master

Anyhow, it's a Marvel Fact for years,
that there are places BEYOND Space & Time in the Marvel Universe,
were several beings have been able to venture into to. (including Warlock)

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg
"Beyond the Realms of Space & Time"



http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg
"I was Outside the influence of Eternity & Infinity"

bored

Originally posted by Air Legend
How is it logically possible for someone to fly faster than light when it is physically impossible?

noneyes

Originally posted by Astner
MoM stands for Man of Miracles, not Mother of Creation.


Man of Miracles is an AVATAR of the Mother of Creation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry Mike but I have to side with Mr. M on this one. When dealing with comics logic rarely ever actually factors into is. Think about it...

Logic(and physics for that matter) tell us that there's no way for someone to lift something like a building, airplane, or aircraft carrier because the object in question would collapse under it's own weight. Logic(and again physics) tells us that there's no way anything can exceed the speed of light.

But does that mean that we discount every strength or speed feat where just that kind of thing happens?



I think the argument, "that's not logically right" in a Comic book forum,

is ... well ... illogical. stoned

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, only physics tells us that. Those things are completely possible within a self - consistent logical framework, even if they are physically impossible.

No one here understands the difference between a physical impossibility and a logical impossibility.

Let me give you an example:

Physical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light

Logical impossibility - Flying faster than the speed of light without moving

Do you see the difference?




Your imposition of science in comic books is just as bad and annoying as Juntai's imposition of religion in comic books.


What you are trying to argue is just as valid/invalid as Juntai saying:



-"God works in mysterious ways"


-"Lucifer Morningstar is evil because the Bible says so"


-"The Lawbringers are not evil. They are just serving thier God- from Negation"


**************************************************
*********


You can easily see how the top 3 are Non-Arguments, because they are not derived from the comic books themselves, but from Juntai's own personal biases.


Well likewise, you are trying to use science and logic to challenge the claims of the comic books....and in that, you have no right.



Religion and Science have no real place here. When debating comic books, we only have the COMIC BOOKS to go by. Not the Bible, not a science text book, nothing except the comic book itself.



Please, stay on topic, and stop derailing from the focus of the thread. I mean this respectfully, and I'm saying this now, so that someone else won't bring it up later. Thanks

To solve the debate of what is logical, it's easy, just follow the companies established logic. Warlock can exist outside of time and space becuz he isn't held by eternity or Infinities sway. The LT told this to eternity a while back.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
To solve the debate of what is logical, it's easy, just follow the companies established logic. Warlock can exist outside of time and space becuz he isn't held by eternity or Infinities sway. They dont' have a destiny.


But aren't you annoyed by the fact that so many posters will try to use religion and/or science in a comic book argument ? None of that belongs here, only the comic books and their realm of actuality matter.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
But aren't you annoyed by the fact that so many posters will try to use religion and/or science in a comic book argument ? None of that belongs here, only the comic books and their realm of actuality matter.

Sometimes you have to use logic, science, and religion when the comic leaves too much wiggle room. But It matters not, Warlock is outside of Eternity and infinities grip, he can exist anywhere per the LT.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Warlock is outside of Eternity and infinities grip, he can exist anywhere per the LT.



And per the fact that he did it on panel in the scans above.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
When debating comic books, we only have the COMIC BOOKS to go by.

Not the Bible, not a science text book, nothing except the comic book itself.

Please, stay on topic, and stop derailing from the focus of the thread.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Sometimes you have to use logic, science, and religion when the comic leaves too much wiggle room. But It matters not, Warlock is outside of Eternity and infinities grip, he can exist anywhere per the LT.


But that's what gets into a whole other mess !


One's personal logic shouldn't be involved, because you can't position your logic over someone else's.


Science is invalid, because the comic book realities do not adhere to our reality. The universes which exist in comic books have thier own physics, thier own laws, and thier own structures. Our science is irrelevant.


And Religion...please don't even get me started on that. Because of religion, Juntai claimed that the Lawbringers were not truly evil since they were only serving thier God- Emporer Charon....meanwhile, the Lawbringers from Negation are the most sadistic and cruel creatures I've ever seen in comic books to date !




We only have the comic books to go on...that's all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ur wrong as the presence couldnt defeat the geb. show me elaine defeating all the uber beings at once like thanos did cuz until u do ur specuating. thats the difference she hasnt done it while thanos has.

thanos with heart=mom>presence=geb>elaine

It is becoming more clear you pick and chose what to read and what not to read. Elaine doesn't need to be shown defeating all the uber beings at once, she is that powerful!! Here is a scan you seemed to have missed.. http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5044/elainepowerfa6.jpg

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Your imposition of science in comic books is just as bad and annoying as Juntai's imposition of religion in comic books.


What you are trying to argue is just as valid/invalid as Juntai saying:



-"God works in mysterious ways"


-"Lucifer Morningstar is evil because the Bible says so"


-"The Lawbringers are not evil. They are just serving thier God- from Negation"


**************************************************
*********


You can easily see how the top 3 are Non-Arguments, because they are not derived from the comic books themselves, but from Juntai's own personal biases.


Well likewise, you are trying to use science and logic to challenge the claims of the comic books....and in that, you have no right.



Religion and Science have no real place here. When debating comic books, we only have the COMIC BOOKS to go by. Not the Bible, not a science text book, nothing except the comic book itself.



Please, stay on topic, and stop derailing from the focus of the thread. I mean this respectfully, and I'm saying this now, so that someone else won't bring it up later. Thanks

Originally posted by Juntai



I'm not making an attack on you, but you have said those things before. Three rediculous statements that you tried to pass off as arguments in regard to Yahweh/Lucifer/Spectre.

If I could remember other examples from other posters about using sources non related to the comic books, I would, but yours stood out the most.

No hard feelings.

It's funny that you still cling to that, here a couple years later after I shut you down so many times back then, because you feel it's a way to slander me of sorts.

The truth is, we were discussing the social stigma of evil, and it's implications in a debate of 'who's more evil?', it's not wrong to offer another point of view. When 'Good and Evil', are defined differently to different people.

The point of saying "The bible says so", in regards to Lucifer Morning star, which you've vastly taken out of context here. Is because while the bible has no bearing on the events of the comic, because the story derails from the version presented religiously, it is still a perversion of what that text considers 'evil', so from those standards/point of view, the statement is one hundred percent correct.

The Lawbringers aren't inherently evil beings by their own decision, they are manifest of Charon's will. His evil. Which is what I was explaining in that old thread. Once again, showing you takings out of context.

I was offering objective points of view.

Now hop off the nuts, that was years ago.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's funny that you still cling to that, here a couple years later after I shut you down so many times back then, because you feel it's a way to slander me of sorts.


First of all, you never shut me down. Not once. Please don't flatter yourself


Secondly, it was months ago, not years ago. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you are the only person I could think of. Like I said, it wasn't a personal attack.





Originally posted by Juntai
The truth is, we were discussing the social stigma of evil, and it's implications in a debate of 'who's more evil?', it's not wrong to offer another point of view. When 'Good and Evil', are defined differently to different people.


Right, but you tried to argue that Lucifer was evil because the Bible says so. Which is invalid, because the Bible has no place here. Besides...

Lucifer Morningstar isn't represented in Vertigo the way the Bible represents him. Lucifer Morningstar was a rebel. Not a sadistic entity. He wanted to fight for his individuality and his own freedom. He felt it was unfair that Yahweh have total control over him.

Lucifer Morningstar also couldn't care less about the suffering of his subjects in Hell. Infact, he left Hell, because he got tired of it.


He's nothing like Satan in the Bible. So your Biblical reference was WAY OFF





Originally posted by Juntai
The point of saying "The bible says so", in regards to Lucifer Morning star, which you've vastly taken out of context here. Is because while the bible has no bearing on the events of the comic, because the story derails from the version presented religiously, it is still a perversion of what that text considers 'evil', so from those standards/point of view, the statement is one hundred percent correct.



No it's not, as I have already explained why. The Bible has no place here, just like a science or philosophy textbook don't have either.





Originally posted by Juntai
The Lawbringers aren't inherently evil beings by their own decision, they are manifest of Charon's will. His evil. Which is what I was explaining in that old thread. Once again, showing you takings out of context.


The Lawbringers are evil by nature. And one of them isn't. They are evil because they do evil things. They are cruel, sadistic, and destructive.

Lawbringer QZTR himself has killed and tortured more people than a thousand Hitlers could ever have.


And finally, no, they are not bound by Charon's will. Infact, Charon has even punished QZTR for defying him, when he sent Obregon Kaine to planet Korakorum against his will.


The Lawbringers do have Free Will, as one Lawbringer even rebelled against Charon himself. Nice Try





Originally posted by Juntai
I was offering objective points of view.


Not when you referenced the Bible.




Originally posted by Juntai
Now hop off the nuts, that was years ago.



That was months ago, not years. And I don't care about you enough to attack you. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you were the best example I could use.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
First of all, you never shut me down. Not once. Please don't flatter yourself


Secondly, it was months ago, not years ago. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you are the only person I could think of. Like I said, it wasn't a personal attack. Yes, I have, last this post, this post and several other times. And secondly it was well over a year ago. early 06. Closing two years ago. Forget how long you've been riding my nuts much?
Not a personal attack? You bring this up almost every 2 months or so and each time I shut you down because you miscontrue what I say or outright take it out of context.



Did you ignore what I said? I was not speaking of the Biblical portrayal of Lucifer, but the Biblical portrayal of evil. Lucifer in both texts is evil by Christian views. He embodies it's principals.


Which has nothing to do with what I said. Lucifer doesn't care for the value of life or goodness. He's selfish. Getting in his path will leave martred or massacred. He has abandoned God. This can go all day. Although portrayed in a more son rejecting father way, with a very human view as opposed to all powerful entity type of understanding, he still embodies and revels in the same character traits attributed to evil by the standards of a Christian. The point being, when you were asking what character is more evil, what one considers evil or 'how' evil, is only in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone envelopes the same views. There was no way to find a 'correct' or 'wrong' answer.


Sorry, you taking me off of context, is what's way off. Plus you pretending I don't shut you down like this every time we debate, that was pretty WAY OFF too.









Depends on the context of the debate at hand.








Funny, want to share exactly what a Lawbringer is now? Characteristics of Charon that he expelled from himself. They are just extensions of will and characteristics. One defying Charon is just a characteristic of that trait, the part of Charon he embodies. It does't truly imply free will. I wouldn't expect you to understand that however, or rather if you did understand it, to pretend you don't get it in the face of trying to present a rather weak arguement here.





You care about me enough to try to repost this every chance you get. If you don't want me to take it as a character attack after the hundredth time you bring it up, then just don't bring it up, and keep my name out of your posts. And then you won't get a response from me.

The point isn't about Lucifer or the Lawbringers though. And it's not about how I've maintained it's all a matter of perspective on what evil is, and I wasn't debating about a character being evil because his character in the Bible is, but because the Bible's teachings on what evil is, makes his characteristics so. While another might not consider it the same. It was merely an objective offering into the viewpoints. I was offering several various viewpoints in that thread. Trying to hit from different angles. You kept telling everyone that they were 'wrong', when the judgement is up to the individual.

No, that's not what this is about...
It's about you leaving my name out of your posts, if you don't want me to keep from considering it attacks on my character, then just don't do it. It's the repitition that makes it relivent and evident, regardless of you trying to pass it off as innocent. In fact, I can bring up a topic from less than a month ago, where you reference religion, and immediately bring my name up.
It's almost like you're beckoning me in to own you again.

But this is it, I'm tired of recycling this every couple months. It must be like this for MrMaster whenever GalacticStorm comes back, but at least he attempts to bring some new evidence to the table usually, and isn't marked by a streak of ignorance and denial.

Originally posted by Juntai
Funny, want to share exactly what a Lawbringer is now? Characteristics of Charon that he expelled from himself. They are just extensions of will and characteristics. One defying Charon is just a characteristic of that trait, the part of Charon he embodies. It does't truly imply free will. I wouldn't expect you to understand that however, or rather if you did understand it, to pretend you don't get it in the face of trying to present a rather weak arguement here.
And adding to this, I'm not denying that the killings and things they do aren't acts of evil, it can certainly be seen that way... these are inherently evil acts. But most of 'evil', is in intent rather than an act itself, in my mind. In a similar matter, as I said- killing is an act of evil- but running up and stealing a fish from a bear, and it killing you, is more an act of nature than evil. It doesn't know different.

It's funny that looking over this thread, and some of the previous ones where this was brought up, and dealt with, at those times. I could pretty much go back to a random 06 thread with us in it, and hit quote, and paste it here, since you have the same baseless arguement where you consistantly take what I've said out not only out of context, but litterally called a opinions on concepts right and wrong. I think what really gets you, is that going back to the thread that started it all, more people voted for Lucifer being evil than the Lawbringer, in fact without actually counting, probably had more votes than most other characters mentioned. I wasn't the only one who voted for him being one of the most evil characters, I was just the one offering other viewpoints into character portrayals and whether or not I believe they are full of 'evil' traits.

I could go around every month or so and throw your name out there about how you actually said Spectre is evil, when he's as natural an occurance as death is, and maybe crack a joke about it. But I wouldn't do that, I'm more respectful, forgiving, and it's quite frankly not worth my time or effort.

Just in this thread; not an attack on my character? Please.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Your imposition of science in comic books is just as bad and annoying as Juntai's imposition of religion in comic books.


What you are trying to argue is just as valid/invalid as Juntai saying:



-"God works in mysterious ways"


-"Lucifer Morningstar is evil because the Bible says so"


-"The Lawbringers are not evil. They are just serving thier God- from Negation"




Last month, in a debate I wasn't even part of; whos' nuts are those you're on?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

That's pretty much all you need to know. I could argue a million times why Yahweh from Lucifer is fallible and hypocritical, but you and Juntai would argue to the death with your religious bias.


Oct 6 06. You throwing back to the debate in a new thread. As if it helped your current arguement.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Okay, let me clarify. Three ABSURD arguments you have made in the past:


1) Lucifer Morningstar is evil because the Bible says he is...

2) The Lawbringers from NEGATION are not evil, because they are serving thier God Charon

3) Lucifer is evil because he defies God (even though Yahweh planned every single conflict and suffering that did not center around Lucifer)




Oh wait, and I almost forgot...the worst argument you ever made:


"God works in mysterious ways"

Like that's gonna cut it in a debate...

Oct 31 06, nearly a whole month later, you trying to throw it at me again, when it was completely off base of the subject matter.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

That is the FIRST logical, correct, and accurate non-biblical biased answer you have ever responded to me.

And this is just a couple examples.


Like I said, keep my name out of your mouth, and we won't have keep going through this. It's quite obvious you're trying to do this however, so I fully expect to see the same circular logic again in another month or two, and my name thrown into the mix.

Screw it, I'm just putting you on ignore, rather than letting you try to bait me into threads by throwing shots at me - which is clearly proven that you do; above-- when I'm not even involved, and the topic is barely relative if at all. I normally refrain from doing this to those I think are fairly knowledgable in certain areas, and make good points from time to time, but your behavior on this is just absurd and quite repetitive. Whenever you finally reply, just go back to my first or second post in this thread, or one of the previous threads, because I'm quite sure it'll be an accurate retort to whatever presented, without me having to repost or rephrase.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
First of all, you never shut me down. Not once. Please don't flatter yourself


Secondly, it was months ago, not years ago. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you are the only person I could think of. Like I said, it wasn't a personal attack.








Right, but you tried to argue that Lucifer was evil because the Bible says so. Which is invalid, because the Bible has no place here. Besides...

Lucifer Morningstar isn't represented in Vertigo the way the Bible represents him. Lucifer Morningstar was a rebel. Not a sadistic entity. He wanted to fight for his individuality and his own freedom. He felt it was unfair that Yahweh have total control over him.

Lucifer Morningstar also couldn't care less about the suffering of his subjects in Hell. Infact, he left Hell, because he got tired of it.


He's nothing like Satan in the Bible. So your Biblical reference was WAY OFF









No it's not, as I have already explained why. The Bible has no place here, just like a science or philosophy textbook don't have either.








The Lawbringers are evil by nature. And one of them isn't. They are evil because they do evil things. They are cruel, sadistic, and destructive.

Lawbringer QZTR himself has killed and tortured more people than a thousand Hitlers could ever have.


And finally, no, they are not bound by Charon's will. Infact, Charon has even punished QZTR for defying him, when he sent Obregon Kaine to planet Korakorum against his will.


The Lawbringers do have Free Will, as one Lawbringer even rebelled against Charon himself. Nice Try








Not when you referenced the Bible.








That was months ago, not years. And I don't care about you enough to attack you. I was bringing up an example of religion being used in a comic book forum, and you were the best example I could use. u owned him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
u owned him.

Um no. you dont' even know what they are talking about. I would cuss you out, but it's not worth it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um no. you dont' even know what they are talking about. I would cuss you out, but it's not worth it. yes i do i read their positions about inherently evil beings and what not. he wasnt insulting juntai and he got so upset and made it personal. for shame.

ull never cuss me out cuz u know ur better than that. i wasnt talking to u and heres ur warning. dont threaten me like this again. dont break the rules nver.

Originally posted by quanchi112
yes i do i read their positions about inherently evil beings and what not. he wasnt insulting juntai and he got so upset and made it personal. for shame.

ull never cuss me out cuz u know ur better than that. i wasnt talking to u and heres ur warning. dont threaten me like this again. dont break the rules nver.

You arent' warning me of anything lil kid. You are flaming when you post dumb shit like you owned him. Now I'm sticking up for juntai. I'm telling you to grow up. I'm not cussing you out becuz you are the laughing stock of the universe. you should have your own comic. And every month, they should post all of the poeple who have called you . Now I'm warning you, stop flaming or Ill report you.

Originally posted by Air Legend
How is it logically possible for someone to fly faster than light when it is physically impossible?

Because it does not contradict itself. It's self - consistent. If the laws of physics were different, the laws of logic would still be the same.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Your imposition of science in comic books is just as bad and annoying as Juntai's imposition of religion in comic books.


What you are trying to argue is just as valid/invalid as Juntai saying:



-"God works in mysterious ways"


-"Lucifer Morningstar is evil because the Bible says so"


-"The Lawbringers are not evil. They are just serving thier God- from Negation"


**************************************************
*********


You can easily see how the top 3 are Non-Arguments, because they are not derived from the comic books themselves, but from Juntai's own personal biases.


Well likewise, you are trying to use science and logic to challenge the claims of the comic books....and in that, you have no right.



Religion and Science have no real place here. When debating comic books, we only have the COMIC BOOKS to go by. Not the Bible, not a science text book, nothing except the comic book itself.



Please, stay on topic, and stop derailing from the focus of the thread. I mean this respectfully, and I'm saying this now, so that someone else won't bring it up later. Thanks

It is not science, it is logic. Do you understand the difference?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You arent' warning me of anything lil kid. You are flaming when you post dumb shit like you owned him. Now I'm sticking up for juntai. I'm telling you to grow up. I'm not cussing you out becuz you are the laughing stock of the universe. you should have your own comic. And every month, they should post all of the poeple who have called you . Now I'm warning you, stop flaming or Ill report you. now listen up did u hear when u were gone how peaceful things were. u were even caught socking. this is all commom knowledge around here. im not flaming and people say owned all the time. i feel spear really proved his point while the other debator got angry and went for spear telling him hes pawned him for years and to get off his nuts. thats no way to debate at all.

i care not about ur personal feelings about me ok and want u to act better than u have. thats all. i dont want to see u get banned and get people drawn into ur little cutdown fests. it ruins this forum i care so deeply about. now lets get back to the debate at hand. and dont ever tell someone ull cuss them out on here. that is against forum rules.

thanos and mom tie as they are both supreme. elaine loses.

Originally posted by quanchi112
now listen up did u hear when u were gone how peaceful things were. u were even caught socking. this is all commom knowledge around here. im not flaming and people say owned all the time. i feel spear really proved his point while the other debator got angry and went for spear telling him hes pawned him for years and to get off his nuts. thats no way to debate at all.

i care not about ur personal feelings about me ok and want u to act better than u have. thats all. i dont want to see u get banned and get people drawn into ur little cutdown fests. it ruins this forum i care so deeply about. now lets get back to the debate at hand. and dont ever tell someone ull cuss them out on here. that is against forum rules.

Um no, you ruin the forum. With your rediculous marvel wins all the time, non logical arguments, and inciting of incedents. I would have never gotten banned if you weren't on this forum. everyone else has put up with each other for years and you come along and single handidly RUIN the forum. Bait threads, retarded threads about thanos, and the constant telling people they were owned does not make for a happy forum. before you point the finger at me, look at your self buddy. You aren't innocent and you know it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um no, you ruin the forum. With your rediculous marvel wins all the time, non logical arguments, and inciting of incedents. I would have never gotten banned if you weren't on this forum. everyone else has put up with each other for years and you come along and single handidly RUIN the forum. Bait threads, retarded threads about thanos, and the constant telling people they were owned does not make for a happy forum. before you point the finger at me, look at your self buddy. You aren't innocent and you know it. listen i am not what ruins this forum. u can disagree with me all u want but i back up my points with solid reasoning. u say u want to cuss people out. do u think thats want makes for a good healthy intelligent forum. im asking you seriously. do u like breaking the rules becuz u say cuz of me u arent allowed to swear or cuss people out. these arent my rules but the moderators i follow. dont get offended by this as i am really skin you what u want this forum to be like. oh and by the way u got banned while i was at work. quit blaming me for the actions that u take.
we all have choices and start by following the rules and making the right ones.

Originally posted by quanchi112
listen i am not what ruins this forum. u can disagree with me all u want but i back up my points with solid reasoning. u say u want to cuss people out. do u think thats want makes for a good healthy intelligent forum. im asking you seriously. do u like breaking the rules becuz u say cuz of me u arent allowed to swear or cuss people out. these arent my rules but the moderators i follow. dont get offended by this as i am really skin you what u want this forum to be like. oh and by the way u got banned while i was at work. quit blaming me for the actions that u take.
we all have choices and start by following the rules and making the right ones.
Solid Reasoning? LMAO. Why do people call you idiot and retard if you have solid reasoning? I haven't seen someone called idiot or retarded as much as you EVER. And I got banned becuz I hate you. I hate what you stand for, I hate how you troll, I hate how you make spam threads, I hate how you go around telling people they got owned becuz it happens to be someone that likes DC. You have never in the history of your time here ever given one person that Likes DC comics a compliment. You are BIASED and you don't give logical arguments, Maybe if you owned a few thousand DC comic books, I'd have more respect for you. At least I own at least 5,000 marvel comics. I know enough to call a battle. I dont' go around saying, Superman is better at hand to hand he wins. Or The LT doesn't have any combat feats so he loses. That is stuff you do. Now take a good long hard look at your self, becuz it was not needed for you to comment on who pwned who. It wasn't your conversation to be part of. You are an attention glut. P.S. remember, I may cuss people out, but people will admit that alot of the time, I know my stuff. when was the last time ANYONE on here who isn't biased said that about you. the only people who agree with you are other rediculously biased marvel fans.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Solid Reasoning? LMAO. Why do people call you idiot and retard if you have solid reasoning? I haven't seen someone called idiot or retarded as much as you EVER. And I got banned becuz I hate you. I hate what you stand for, I hate how you troll, I hate how you make spam threads, I hate how you go around telling people they got owned becuz it happens to be someone that likes DC. You have never in the history of your time here ever given one person that Likes DC comics a compliment. You are BIASED and you don't give logical arguments, Maybe if you owned a few thousand DC comic books, I'd have more respect for you. At least I own at least 5,000 marvel comics. I know enough to call a battle. I dont' go around saying, Superman is better at hand to hand he wins. Or The LT doesn't have any combat feats so he loses. That is stuff you do. Now take a good long hard look at your self, becuz it was not needed for you to comment on who pwned who. It wasn't your conversation to be part of. You are an attention glut. P.S. remember, I may cuss people out, but people will admit that alot of the time, I know my stuff. when was the last time ANYONE on here who isn't biased said that about you. the only people who agree with you are other rediculously biased marvel fans. first off im not a troll. u have been banned before not me. i dont constantly break the rules and yell at people all the time. quit letting ur personal feelings affect ur response to me. i like dc as well three of my top five fave characters are from dc. i hate how superman always wins in dc just as u do. i credit superman though cuz i have to.

im not biased i call it how i see it. i give reasoning as to why i think a certain way. i dont just respond as many do on here and say u tard ur wrong. thats no way to debate. u think u have vast comic book knowledge but cant scan any comic books at all. sometimes people have to prove ur points for u. i need no ones help. i prove them on my own.

dont get offended by me and if u do just let it go. im here to stay.

Originally posted by quanchi112
first off im not a troll. u have been banned before not me. i dont constantly break the rules and yell at people all the time. quit letting ur personal feelings affect ur response to me. i like dc as well three of my top five fave characters are from dc. i hate how superman always wins in dc just as u do. i credit superman though cuz i have to.

im not biased i call it how i see it. i give reasoning as to why i think a certain way. i dont just respond as many do on here and say u tard ur wrong. thats no way to debate. u think u have vast comic book knowledge but cant scan any comic books at all. sometimes people have to prove ur points for u. i need no ones help. i prove them on my own.

dont get offended by me and if u do just let it go. im here to stay.

How you see it is wrong. And it doesn't matter if I am too lazy to scan a comic. I know that I'm usually correct or at least have sound reasoning. where's your reason? I doesn't matter if you stay. You'll end up leaving just like xmeat and devilhulk when enough people simply stop responding to you or calling you enough names. And you haven't proven one point outside of your own lil head. No one and I repeat no one follows your logic and no one hardly ever agree with you. If they do, they dont' agree with you for the same reasoning. You sir, have gotten a big fat FAIL, for being a troller, biased, and a flamer.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How you see it is wrong. And it doesn't matter if I am too lazy to scan a comic. I know that I'm usually correct or at least have sound reasoning. where's your reason? I doesn't matter if you stay. You'll end up leaving just like xmeat and devilhulk when enough people simply stop responding to you or calling you enough names. And you haven't proven one point outside of your own lil head. No one and I repeat no one follows your logic and no one hardly ever agree with you. If they do, they dont' agree with you for the same reasoning. You sir, have gotten a big fat FAIL, for being a troller, biased, and a flamer. ill never leave. i dont care. i respond to peoples arguments. howmany times have people just ripped into u and mocked u on here as well. people actually told u to ur face that the fourms were better off when u were gone and it wasnt me becuz thats not my style. i hoped u would be better off after they caught u socking. i am disappointed nver. i thought u changed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ill never leave. i dont care. i respond to peoples arguments. howmany times have people just ripped into u and mocked u on here as well. people actually told u to ur face that the fourms were better off when u were gone and it wasnt me becuz thats not my style. i hoped u would be better off after they caught u socking. i am disappointed nver. i thought u changed.

The only people who told me the forum was better off when I was gone are the same lames that I have gotten into it with when I first came. And you do realize that everyone who mocked me has been proven a fool as most of what I have said has been proven. don't think so? Someone had the nerve to say I was wrong and that michael couldn't beat the LT. I said this months ago. now look, most of the forum agrees. I'm disappointed in you becuz you haven't changed yet.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The only people who told me the forum was better off when I was gone are the same lames that I have gotten into it with when I first came. And you do realize that everyone who mocked me has been proven a fool as most of what I have said has been proven. don't think so? Someone had the nerve to say I was wrong and that michael couldn't beat the LT. I said this months ago. now look, most of the forum agrees. I'm disappointed in you becuz you haven't changed yet. michaels dead. and there is no way he could hang with lt. no way whatsoever. i dont think king kandy is a fool nor air legend. i dont call people fools i=even if i really believe they are. its against the rules.

Originally posted by quanchi112
michaels dead. and there is no way he could hang with lt. no way whatsoever. i dont think king kandy is a fool nor air legend. i dont call people fools i=even if i really believe they are. its against the rules.

If it's against the rules, you should start telling the majority of the forum that has called you a fool or idiot or retard to stop it. And I didn't give any names. I just said the fools who I have gotten into with earlier are the same fools who said the forums where better without me. And micheal from the main DC continuity is NOT dead.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If it's against the rules, you should start telling the majority of the forum that has called you a fool or idiot or retard to stop it. And I didn't give any names. I just said the fools who I have gotten into with earlier are the same fools who said the forums where better without me. And micheal from the main DC continuity is NOT dead. arre there two michaels now?i do tell them. if the keep up it and dont respnd t my argument they get reported. no one is above the rules.

Originally posted by quanchi112
arre there two michaels now?i do tell them. if the keep up it and dont respnd t my argument they get reported. no one is above the rules.

obviously no one is above being biased either. you have that down packed.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
obviously no one is above being biased either. you have that down packed. even though i think ur baised i dont use tha in my counter points. ok that isnt a point. just letting u know.

Originally posted by quanchi112
even though i think ur baised i dont use tha in my counter points. ok that isnt a point. just letting u know.

I'm biased. Everyone knows it. i just have common sense. you will never see me say Kismet beats Classic beyonder. Or Mr. mxy beats the lt. I have common sense. Something I do not find in your posts.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'm biased. Everyone knows it. i just have common sense. you will never see me say Kismet beats Classic beyonder. Or Mr. mxy beats the lt. I have common sense. Something I do not find in your posts. im not biased. that is the difference. classic beyonder beat lt but u just said mxy couldnt beat lt while classic beyonder could? what gives?

Originally posted by quanchi112
im not biased. that is the difference. classic beyonder beat lt but u just said mxy couldnt beat lt while classic beyonder could? what gives?



The classic Beyonder didn't beat the omniversal Lt. he only beat the multiversal one. Big difference.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The classic Beyonder didn't beat the omniversal Lt. he only beat the multiversal one. Big difference. theres only one lt. u also thought there was multieternity.

Originally posted by quanchi112
theres only one lt. u also thought there was multieternity.





There is a multieternity. and back then the lt was only gaurdian over the multiverse. So he wasn't as powerful as he is now. Pwned.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is a multieternity. and back then the lt was only gaurdian over the multiverse. So he wasn't as powerful as he is now. Pwned. no there isnt. wow i cant believe u think there are different eternities.

Originally posted by quanchi112
no there isnt. wow i cant believe u think there are different eternities.

No you silly kid. Eternity is part of the multieternity.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No you silly kid. Eternity is part of the multieternity. sure he is.

Originally posted by quanchi112
sure he is.




where one eternity exist, there is a boundless multieternity.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
where one eternity exist, there is a boundless multieternity. it has always been one eternity not just his aspect.

geez two presence boundless eternity.

how do u come up with this stuff.

*cough*

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Eternity.jpg

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
*cough*

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Eternity.jpg
PWNED. Thanks for the scan. now quan, you see how others feel when They get pwned for trying to come against nvr's knowlege.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
*cough*

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Eternity.jpg

Yup an "embodiment". No such thing as multi-eternity.

Originally posted by Air Legend

Yup an "embodiment". No such thing as multi-eternity.

AN ETERNITY of it's own. The key word being AN. As in one.

I'll take Captain Universe's word for it...


"And where one Eternity would ensure a boundless Universe --- A Multi-Eternity would ensure a boundless Multiverse":

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_multieternity.jpg

.
quanchi fails again.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
AN ETERNITY of it's own. The key word being AN. As in one.
EMBODIED by an eternity of its own. Learn how to read.



Originally posted by Galan007
I'll take Captain Universe's word for it...


"And where one Eternity would ensure a boundless Universe --- A Multi-Eternity would ensure a boundless Multiverse":

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_multieternity.jpg
This seems to contradict the bio. Good thing it was Captain Universe saying it and not the narrator

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
PWNED. Thanks for the scan. now quan, you see how others feel when They get pwned for trying to come against nvr's knowlege. how was i pawned did u read the scan and have u read what other posters said. quit making things up now its getting old.

Originally posted by Air Legend
EMBODIED by an eternity of its own. Learn how to read.




This seems to contradict the bio. Good thing it was Captain Universe saying it and not the narrator owned. nice job air legend im glad someone comprehends it correctly.

Originally posted by Air Legend
EMBODIED by an eternity of its own. Learn how to read.




This seems to contradict the bio. Good thing it was Captain Universe saying it and not the narrator

But when Thanos says he's supreme on panel, you take his word for it? What gives?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It is not science, it is logic. Do you understand the difference?

I disagree.


You are arguing that Adam Warlock did exist within Time and Space, otherwise he would have not been able to move or speak.

Makes sense, but did you ever figure that perhaps the realm beyond omniversal time/space is like a dream ? Dreams do not occupy space, and time is irrelevant as well.


If Marvel says that Adam Warlock, Thanos, and Death existed beyond time and space, then that's that. No amount of logic you present (even if it makes sense) is going to change that.

Originally posted by Juntai
Screw it, I'm just putting you on ignore, rather than letting you try to bait me into threads by throwing shots at me - which is clearly proven that you do; above-- when I'm not even involved, and the topic is barely relative if at all. I normally refrain from doing this to those I think are fairly knowledgable in certain areas, and make good points from time to time, but your behavior on this is just absurd and quite repetitive. Whenever you finally reply, just go back to my first or second post in this thread, or one of the previous threads, because I'm quite sure it'll be an accurate retort to whatever presented, without me having to repost or rephrase.


Blah, blah, blah... do what you wish.

I was not making a personal attack on you. I was explaining how and why religion and science have no place in a comic book debate. They are both irrelevant. You were the only person on this forum who tried to use religion as a support for your arguments regarding Lucifer and Spectre. Atleast as far as I can remember.


If you are going to take it personal, then do so. Your choice.

Originally posted by Air Legend

Yup an "embodiment". No such thing as multi-eternity.

There is no such thing as a being called "Multi-Eternity"

Captain Universe was describing Eternity's Totality (which is the Multiverse)
and so he termed it "Multi-Eternity" but it was still just Eternity.


Here Captain Universe summerizing the origin of Eternity:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg

"and where One Eternity would ensure a boundless Universe,
a Multi-Eternity would ensure a boudless Multiverse"




Now watch -


the SAME "Multi-Eternity" being called ... just ... "Eternity"

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5025/etuh4.th.jpg
"What was revealed to me through the Cosmic Entity known as ETERNITY"

Eternity's Totality (the Multiverse) and Eternity's Aspects (single Universes)
share the Same Consciousness since atleast 1983:

................................................................................


The Dr Strange, Silver Surfer and Phoenix of this Universe were spared Nullification.

When Strange returns to the Universe that was erased,

he finds the UN as the Culprit:

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3959/d1wb0.th.jpg

................................................................................


They were expelled from that Universe before it's demise.

It was the Universe Korvac ruled.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/5537/d2be2.th.jpg

................................................................................



This is where Strange figured how to Re-Create the Universe with the UN,

as you can see, the essence of Eternity emerges:

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2048/d3xy5.th.jpg
"I am the Spirit of the Universe that once existed here ... hear my plea"

................................................................................


Eternity let's it be known he's died, and prefers to keep this way.

Eternity explains that THIS Universe is just ONE of his Aspects,

of a "nigh-Infinite" amount of Eternitys. (NOW completely Infinite)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1092/d4hg3.th.jpg


So as you can see, this Sigular Eternity (an Aspect)
speaks as though it was the Multiverse.

Why?

Because Eternity's Totality and his Aspects share the Same Consciousness.

Originally posted by Mr Master
There is no such thing as a being called "Multi-Eternity"

Captain Universe was describing Eternity's Totality (which is the Multiverse)
and so he termed it "Multi-Eternity" but it was still just Eternity.


Here Captain Universe summerizing the origin of Eternity:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg

"and where One Eternity would ensure a boundless Universe,
a Multi-Eternity would ensure a boudless Multiverse"




Now watch -


the SAME "Multi-Eternity" being called ... just ... "Eternity"

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5025/etuh4.th.jpg
"What was revealed to me through the Cosmic Entity known as ETERNITY" thank u i dont know what nver had cooked up with this multieternity. another misinterpretation.

i cant believe there are more out there that buys this. multieternity.

Originally posted by Mr Master
There is no such thing as a being called "Multi-Eternity"
That's what I meant to say on that post you quoted me on. Bad grammer

nver thinks there is a being called multieternity,there are two presences,one michael who is as powerful as god,now elaine is god. lucifer can defy anyone and has ultimate willpower,geb is vertigo and doesnt exist in dc becuz as he says there are two presences. the spectre can defeat anyone and is the wrath of god and mxy can do whatever he wants and its a fifty fifty crapshoot against spectre.


these are some of nvers mysterious theories hes pumping out here in this forum.