Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbat...rd=070901012310


"Dear Chris, Everyone is going nuts debating about this standoff between the Hulk and Juggernaut. I need to know the truth, did the Hulk physically stop the Juggernauts mystical movement or was he being slowly pushed back??? BTW, great job on this series I'm sure everyone who read it enjoyed it!

Chris Gage:

"Thanks! Glad you liked it.

Hulk stopped him for a moment...whether he could have stopped him for long, I don't know. More likely the ground would have caved in first, which is why Prof X yelled at him to stop. Hey, I'm not gonna take sides here!

Take care,

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbat...rd=070901012310


"Dear Chris, Everyone is going nuts debating about this standoff between the Hulk and Juggernaut. I need to know the truth, did the Hulk physically stop the Juggernauts mystical movement or was he being slowly pushed back??? BTW, great job on this series I'm sure everyone who read it enjoyed it!

Chris Gage:

"Thanks! Glad you liked it.

Hulk stopped him for a moment...whether he could have stopped him for long, I don't know. More likely the ground would have caved in first, which is why Prof X yelled at him to stop. Hey, I'm not gonna take sides here!

Take care, dead link much?

In any case, War Hulk stopping Juggernaut is not a feat for Hulk or one he can replicate. It's a feat for Apocalypse and his celestial technology that enhanced Hulk.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
In any case, War Hulk stopping Juggernaut is not a feat for Hulk or one he can replicate. It's a feat for Apocalypse and his celestial technology that enhanced Hulk. He's talking about WW Hulk.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbat...rd=070901012310


"Dear Chris, Everyone is going nuts debating about this standoff between the Hulk and Juggernaut. I need to know the truth, did the Hulk physically stop the Juggernauts mystical movement or was he being slowly pushed back??? BTW, great job on this series I'm sure everyone who read it enjoyed it!

Chris Gage:

"Thanks! Glad you liked it.

Hulk stopped him for a moment...whether he could have stopped him for long, I don't know. More likely the ground would have caved in first, which is why Prof X yelled at him to stop. Hey, I'm not gonna take sides here!

Take care,



The act that the link says that none of that exists is mildly funny though

Originally posted by Badabing
He's talking about WW Hulk.

Oh. Then he's an outright dumbass.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


The act that the link says that none of that exists is mildly funny though


The thread he opened up in the respect forum works however.

try this:

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=070901012310

well can't argue with this now can you if this is valid..... looks like hulk stopped the juggernaut

Yeah, but as admitted, he couldn't have held him for long.

I smell some hulkshit in here.......

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, but as admitted, he couldn't have held him for long. true

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, but as admitted, he couldn't have held him for long. This is what he said: "Hulk stopped him for a moment...whether he could have stopped him for long, I don't know. More likely the ground would have caved in first, which is why Prof X yelled at him to stop. "

He said he didn't know. durhuc

Maybe he ment that Hulk slowed him down and was holding him well. But the art nor the story support that claim. The post looks made up. It doesn't even look official. In fact you can post anything and claim anything you want on that site.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbat...rd=070901012310


"Dear Chris, Everyone is going nuts debating about this standoff between the Hulk and Juggernaut. I need to know the truth, did the Hulk physically stop the Juggernauts mystical movement or was he being slowly pushed back??? BTW, great job on this series I'm sure everyone who read it enjoyed it!

Chris Gage:

"Thanks! Glad you liked it.

Hulk stopped him for a moment...whether he could have stopped him for long, I don't know. More likely the ground would have caved in first, which is why Prof X yelled at him to stop. Hey, I'm not gonna take sides here!

Take care,

Hulk rules

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Maybe he ment that Hulk slowed him down and was holding him well. But the art nor the story support that claim. The post looks made up. It doesn't even look official. In fact you can post anything and claim anything you want on that site. i think we can say he paused him for a moment that's not too bad

Originally posted by lando005
i think we can say he paused him for a moment that's not too bad

Even if he did pause him, (Which there is 0 indication in the art where that happened), Juggernaut would still have to overpower hulk to get moving again, and there is a clear indication of where that happened as you can look at the scan and see where Hulks foot begins to slide back.

Either way, if Gage really did say that, it sounds more look a cop out of an answer then a set in stone view of what happened. It sounds like He is trying to please to Hulk fans who are reading his book which is why to me, his answer sounds very vague and misleading.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, but as admitted, he couldn't have held him for long.
no he didn't. the fact is Hulk +stopped+ juggernaut. the statement about "whether he could do so for long" was merely a sop to keep this interesting issue 'open'. nothing more.

it would be stupid to suggest that Hulk could lack for stamina or for power, considering that he had already enough to STOP juggernaut.

the scans clearly showed Hulk letting juggernaut's momentum build up, before he suckered juggernaut into a bfr.

if Hulk had intended to, juggernaut would have been stopped there for all eternity - as Hulk would just continue to draw upon infinite amounts of power to make himself stronger, and in his calm - calculating state - not even requiring that he goes 'mad'/savage.

moreover, the ground giving way is very reminiscent of what happened when juggernaut was +stopped+ by the GodForce.

so, now we got that cleared up .

^^ ignore the above:

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, but as admitted, he couldn't have held him for long.
no he didn't. the fact is Hulk +stopped+ juggernaut. the statement about "whether he could do so for long" was merely a sop to keep this interesting issue 'open'. nothing more.

it would be stupid to suggest that Hulk could lack for stamina or for power, considering that he had already enough to STOP juggernaut.

the scans clearly showed Hulk letting juggernaut's momentum build up, before he suckered juggernaut into a bfr.

if Hulk had intended to, juggernaut would have been stopped there for as long as Hulk wants, because Hulk would never want for the power to do this.

think of it, if Hulk at t-0 has enough power to stop the juggernaut, then Hulk at t-1 will only be exponentially stronger, if he's still in battle with juggernaut.

but Hulk never had any intention to use lethal force against any of the X-men, hell he wasn't even willing to kill Xavier, satisfied that Xavier was suffering a personal hell of his own.

Hulk steamrollered through the X-men with his 'safety-on', and that includes his interactions with juggernaut. so I think that again reinforces the point that a focused Hulk would quite simply >> juggernaut pretty much all the time.

moreover, the ground giving way is very reminiscent of what happened when juggernaut was +stopped+ by the Godblast.

so, now we got that cleared up .

Ok, here is the full post, unedited from the site



So some guy on a message board claims to have emailed Chris Gage and got this answer and we are meant to take it as conclusive proof?

Call me a cynic but I'm dubious...especially when the OP's name is MegostretchHulk!

correct link.

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=070901012310

I'm guessing that either the writer's website or another poster would have corrected/denied the quote if it had been fabricated.

there's not a lack of people willing to double check, and given how easy it is to drop an email, I doubt that this poster is the only one to have communicated with the writer.

also, it makes sense with the way the battle was depicted. Hulk clearly held up the juggernaut and used his momentum against him.

Originally posted by janus77
I'm guessing that either the writer's website or another poster would have corrected/denied the quote if it had been fabricated.

there's not a lack of people willing to double check, and given how easy it is to drop an email, I doubt that this poster is the only one to have communicated with the writer.

also, it makes sense with the way the battle was depicted. Hulk clearly held up the juggernaut and used his momentum against him.

Only if they had seen it and as you say you are guessing.

Its strange that this is the only reference I can find on the net, its also strange how DevilHulk,not only put up a dead link but edited the full post so that we couldn't see that it was a hulk fan claiming to have emailed the writer.

Just because it hasn't been corrected or denied YET, doesn't mean it won't be, it was after all only posted at 1am this morning GMT.

but would you be at all surprised if this is confirmed as true?

I personally wouldn't as it's pretty much reasonable and fits with most of what we 'know' about The Hulk's abilities.

While I doubt the Hulk could stop a running Juggernaut, he did definitely slow Cain down there. You could tell that Hulk was being pushed back, but I still think it's pretty impressive.

Originally posted by janus77
but would you be at all surprised if this is confirmed as true?

I personally wouldn't as it's pretty much reasonable and fits with most of what we 'know' about The Hulk's abilities.

Well at the moment I see it that Hulk slowed him right down but he was still moving all be it very slowly, the panel with just their feet in it confirms that for me.

IF the writer says otherwise, I have no problem with it, its just the source at this moment in time that I question.

Originally posted by Hercules
Only if they had seen it and as you say you are guessing.

Its strange that this is the only reference I can find on the net, its also strange how DevilHulk,not only put up a dead link but edited the full post so that we couldn't see that it was a hulk fan claiming to have emailed the writer.

Just because it hasn't been corrected or denied YET, doesn't mean it won't be, it was after all only posted at 1am this morning GMT.


I have no idea why first link did not work, but after your post i know you are an huge idiot

Hulk stopped Juggernaut, The autor confirmed this. You can die happy.

Hulk > your favorites chars.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
I have no idea why first link did not work, but after your post i know you are an huge idiot

Hulk stopped Juggernaut, The autor confirmed this. You can die happy.

Hulk > your favorites chars.

Omg what a retard!!!!!

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
I have no idea why first link did not work, but after your post i know you are an huge idiot

Hulk stopped Juggernaut, The autor confirmed this. You can die happy.

Hulk > your favorites chars.

No, someone posted that he had emailed the author and that was his reply, I could say I spoke to Stan Lee and he told me that Rocket Racoon was more powerful than Galactus, doesn't mean I did.

Name calling and stating that Hulk>my favourite characters, wow, impressive, what do you do for an encore, dribble, play with yourself or throw feces?

Hulk is one of my favourite characters, I already said if I saw official conformation of this from the writer, I had no problems with it, I just didn't see it that way from the artwork and I'm not the kind of person to take someones word for it on a website.

So be a good little boy, let the adults talk and remember to put your hulk hands on before bed, that way there will be no nasty accidents when you put the night light out.

See, you are the problem, the whole reason why there is so much Hulk hate on these boards, Janus I know is a huge fan and whether I agree with him or not, at least he can debate and articulate, you and devilgoblin and xmeat etc, just come over as very young, very stupid and very sad.

The insult thing when I don't agree with you, is old and if huge idiot is the best you can come up with, your not even as creative as xmeat, at least he was funny!

So you are also admitting that you are incapable of posting a link correctly?

See I gave you credit for doing that on purpose, it made you seem a little underhand but at least it showed a modicum of intelligence, you just blew yourself out of the water on that one.

Come back and talk to me when you have grown up, so I guess I will be talking to you again in about oooo 30-40 years?

Originally posted by Hercules
No, someone posted that he had emailed the author and that was his reply, I could say I spoke to Stan Lee and he told me that Rocket Racoon was more powerful than Galactus, doesn't mean I did.

Name calling and stating that Hulk>my favourite characters, wow, impressive, what do you do for an encore, dribble, play with yourself or throw feces?

Hulk is one of my favourite characters, I already said if I saw official conformation of this from the writer, I had no problems with it, I just didn't see it that way from the artwork and I'm not the kind of person to take someones word for it on a website.

So be a good little boy, let the adults talk and remember to put your hulk hands on before bed, that way there will be no nasty accidents when you put the night light out.

See, you are the problem, the whole reason why there is so much Hulk hate on these boards, Janus I know is a huge fan and whether I agree with him or not, at least he can debate and articulate, you and devilgoblin and xmeat etc, just come over as very young, very stupid and very sad.

The insult thing when I don't agree with you, is old and if huge idiot is the best you can come up with, your not even as creative as xmeat, at least he was funny!

So you are also admitting that you are incapable of posting a link correctly?

See I gave you credit for doing that on purpose, it made you seem a little underhand but at least it showed a modicum of intelligence, you just blew yourself out of the water on that one.

Come back and talk to me when you have grown up, so I guess I will be talking to you again in about oooo 30-40 years?

Game, set and match.

Herc smash puny huc fanboy.

Wow, what happened here?

Originally posted by Badabing
Wow, what happened here?

Thor beat Captain Marvel and the Huc combined.

Originally posted by llagrok
Thor beat Captain Marvel and the Huc combined. Dream on you cupcake! madfist




dur

Originally posted by llagrok
Thor beat Captain Marvel and the Huc combined.


wha?!


huc!? Implussible!!11 HUC IS TEH ABSOLUTE STRONGEWST!!! IN TEE MARVEL UNIVE#SEre!!*@


you lie norwegian. LIE! soooo pathetic!1111


callz me a fanboy al you want! atlest i have a life!

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
wha?!


huc!? Implussible!!11 HUC IS TEH ABSOLUTE STRONGEWST!!! IN TEE MARVEL UNIVE#SEre!!*@


you lie norwegian. LIE! soooo pathetic!1111


callz me a fanboy al you want! atlest i have a life! THE TRUE EVIL ASH! shock

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
YEAH!


I AM TEH HERALD OF HUC!!!111


THE GREEN GOD OF LIMITLESS STRENGTH!@11



HE WHO SHALL SMASH THEE!1! you spelled everything mostly right ermm

Originally posted by Hercules
No, someone posted that he had emailed the author and that was his reply, I could say I spoke to Stan Lee and he told me that Rocket Racoon was more powerful than Galactus, doesn't mean I did.

Name calling and stating that Hulk>my favourite characters, wow, impressive, what do you do for an encore, dribble, play with yourself or throw feces?

Hulk is one of my favourite characters, I already said if I saw official conformation of this from the writer, I had no problems with it, I just didn't see it that way from the artwork and I'm not the kind of person to take someones word for it on a website.

So be a good little boy, let the adults talk and remember to put your hulk hands on before bed, that way there will be no nasty accidents when you put the night light out.

See, you are the problem, the whole reason why there is so much Hulk hate on these boards, Janus I know is a huge fan and whether I agree with him or not, at least he can debate and articulate, you and devilgoblin and xmeat etc, just come over as very young, very stupid and very sad.

The insult thing when I don't agree with you, is old and if huge idiot is the best you can come up with, your not even as creative as xmeat, at least he was funny!

So you are also admitting that you are incapable of posting a link correctly?

See I gave you credit for doing that on purpose, it made you seem a little underhand but at least it showed a modicum of intelligence, you just blew yourself out of the water on that one.

Come back and talk to me when you have grown up, so I guess I will be talking to you again in about oooo 30-40 years?


You talk, i do facts: i reported Gage's answer to a fan

You dont' want to believe, that's your problem.

I don't care if in comic boards green hate makes the hulk lose thousands debate, i really don't care...what i really care is to see The Hulk winning in comics and proving more and more he is the strongest one there is, and what i really care even more is posting here the truths to make hulk detractors literally die

Good try.

(i don't think anyone pretends to receive a mail if it's not truth, but i think guys as Estacado think wwh is worst nightmare )

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
You talk, i do facts: i reported Gage's answer to a fan

You dont' want to believe, that's your problem.

I don't care if in comic boards green hate makes the hulk lose thousands debate, i really don't care...what i really care is to see The Hulk winning in comics and proving more and more he is the strongest one there is, and what i really care even more is posting here the truths to make hulk detractors literally die

Good try.

(i don't think anyone pretends to receive a mail if it's not truth, but i think guys as Estacado think wwh is worst nightmare )
Read the other thread with the true answer not some fakes hit ....idiot.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
You talk, i do facts: i reported Gage's answer to a fan

You dont' want to believe, that's your problem.

I don't care if in comic boards green hate makes the hulk lose thousands debate, i really don't care...what i really care is to see The Hulk winning in comics and proving more and more he is the strongest one there is, and what i really care even more is posting here the truths to make hulk detractors literally die

Good try.

(i don't think anyone pretends to receive a mail if it's not truth, but i think guys as Estacado think wwh is worst nightmare )

Well, what you posted has already been debunked by the writer sooo...shrug


I'm not a hulk detractor, just a realist, you should try it sometime!

Hulk stopped Juggernaut for a moment.....Hulk redirected Juggernaut's momentum. Who cares? I thought it was a good showing for both. Hulk showed enough strength to momentarily stop Juggernaut or slow him down enough to appear still. Juggernaut stalemated a Hulk who's torn through almost every team and hero plus the Military. Either way it was a good showing for both. durhuc jugdurnaut

Originally posted by Badabing
Hulk stopped Juggernaut for a moment.....Hulk redirected Juggernaut's momentum. Who cares? I thought it was a good showing for both. Hulk showed enough strength to momentarily stop Juggernaut or slow him down enough to appear still. Juggernaut stalemated a Hulk who's torn through almost every team and hero plus the Military. Either way it was a good showing for both. durhuc jugdurnaut

You posted that in both threads! durfist

Originally posted by Estacado
Read the other thread with the true answer not some fakes hit ....idiot.

The answer i posted is true, Gage answered in the same way to other posters that you like it or not.

The second thread started by your friend is an obvious fake.

Anyway: comics talks clear! in the pic we see The Hulk stopping Juggy, if he was not running why could not stop himself when hulk let him go ?

Sorry Hulk Hater, and don't worry when the hulk will beat Sentry you'll be the first to know and don't try to get a fake answer by Greg Pak kind "oh, no the hulk who beat the Sentry in wwh#5 was not real, it happened only in your mind, it was a joke".

devilhulk, no offence but can you substantiate any of the boasts you're making?

for instance, can you actually prove that the email confirming (what to my eyes seemed to be the case) that Hulk stopped - momentarily - the Juggernaut, is genuine?

why not email the writer and get a more expansive answer from him?

I do admit that it looks obvious that Hulk STOPPED juggernaut for a moment or two (indeed "redirecting juggernaut's momentum downwards would still require stopping the velocity and power of juggernaut's "unstoppable" charge before redirecting it downwards) before he let go and smacked juggernaut on the back to send him smashing through the building and into the drink. though people will always seek out rationalisations for their preferred answers and this potentially conclusive email could be useful to put an end to one strand of bickering.

I have no problem with saying Hulk slowed Juggernaut down, but outright stopping him? It's an impossibility. Juggernaut is now back to full power, and stopping him is beyond Hulk's powers. I can admit that Hulk slowed him down and redirected him.

The writer took the only real option IMO. You can't have Hulk lose to juggernaut in the middle of his own book. But at the same time, you can't have him beat the juggernaut if Juggernaut's back to full power.

So what's left? A stalemate. Or technically a win by BFR for Hulk. Which is fine, it shows him using his brain as opposed to being dumb enough to slug it out with Cain Marko.

lol, you realise there is no absolute 'stop' so slowing down something to such an extent that it is redirected and/or that momentum builds up that it cannot then control, is basically proving that your strength overmatches its.

like a charging 5yr old who you hold at bay by placing your extended hand upon his head... he builds up momentum, because he doesn't have the strength to overcome your power but, once you let go, he can't control the momentum he's built up and he crashes into you.

just read some of Hulks past achievements, and honestly, the character is designed to wreck reputations and characters such as juggernaut.

he defeated the High Evolutionary's armour, with the HE inside it, ripped it to pieces in an hour - according to the HE.

another Elder of the universe, The Gardener had the Soul Gem taken from him by Hulk. he was astounded that the Hulk had power sufficient to match/overmatch him.

Apocalypse says his Celestial Tech reports that the power that The Hulk +generates+ (not some ultimate potential, but the power Hulk could realistically output) might be enough to challenge The Celestials.

the problem with the Hulk - Juggernaut conflict in the recent WWH arc is that Hulk just doesn't have the slightest bit of interest in juggernaut. he's not bothered, juggernaut is an insignificant factor, as is everybody else who is not part of the Illuminati.

also, and quite clearly, The Hulk fought all the X-men while severely holding back, with the safety-on, no kills no permanent damage, just enough to get the job done. so, naturally, the easiest way to beat juggernaut is not for Hulk to gee himself up to break Cyttorak's pet, but to simply bfr him using his superior strength and intellect.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
The answer i posted is true, Gage answered in the same way to other posters that you like it or not.

The second thread started by your friend is an obvious fake.

The one I posted is not a fake. I was given an e-mail and that is what I recieved. I have more proof than you do. You won't take proof as evidence and you want people to accept your claims, even though you post crap all the time? Why do you think most people don't like you?

Plus that other "e-mail" is very fague.

Originally posted by Badabing
Hulk stopped Juggernaut for a moment.....Hulk redirected Juggernaut's momentum. Who cares? I thought it was a good showing for both. Hulk showed enough strength to momentarily stop Juggernaut or slow him down enough to appear still. Juggernaut stalemated a Hulk who's torn through almost every team and hero plus the Military. Either way it was a good showing for both. durhuc jugdurnaut Everybody else is wrong and I'm right! Just drop it...durfist

Originally posted by janus77
lol, you realise there is no absolute 'stop' so slowing down something to such an extent that it is redirected and/or that momentum builds up that it cannot then control, is basically proving that your strength overmatches its.

like a charging 5yr old who you hold at bay by placing your extended hand upon his head... he builds up momentum, because he doesn't have the strength to overcome your power but, once you let go, he can't control the momentum he's built up and he crashes into you.

just read some of Hulks past achievements, and honestly, the character is designed to wreck reputations and characters such as juggernaut.

he defeated the High Evolutionary's armour, with the HE inside it, ripped it to pieces in an hour - according to the HE.

another Elder of the universe, The Gardener had the Soul Gem taken from him by Hulk. he was astounded that the Hulk had power sufficient to match/overmatch him.

Apocalypse says his Celestial Tech reports that the power that The Hulk +generates+ (not some ultimate potential, but the power Hulk could realistically output) might be enough to challenge The Celestials.

the problem with the Hulk - Juggernaut conflict in the recent WWH arc is that Hulk just doesn't have the slightest bit of interest in juggernaut. he's not bothered, juggernaut is an insignificant factor, as is everybody else who is not part of the Illuminati.

also, and quite clearly, The Hulk fought all the X-men while severely holding back, with the safety-on, no kills no permanent damage, just enough to get the job done. so, naturally, the easiest way to beat juggernaut is not for Hulk to gee himself up to break Cyttorak's pet, but to simply bfr him using his superior strength and intellect.

You not only think Apocalypse meant that Hulk could fight the celestials, you actually think Hulk can beat Juggernaut at full power? haermm

JUGGERNAUT IS INVULNERABLE! HE CANNOT BE PHYSICALLY HARMED BY ANYTHING IF HE'S AT FULL POWER! JUGGERNAUT CANNOT BE STOPPED ONCE HE IS IN MOTION!

These are facts. They cannot be argued with, and if you attempt to do so, you become the next DevilHulk.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
The answer i posted is true, Gage answered in the same way to other posters that you like it or not.

The second thread started by your friend is an obvious fake.

Anyway: comics talks clear! in the pic we see The Hulk stopping Juggy, if he was not running why could not stop himself when hulk let him go ?

Sorry Hulk Hater, and don't worry when the hulk will beat Sentry you'll be the first to know and don't try to get a fake answer by Greg Pak kind "oh, no the hulk who beat the Sentry in wwh#5 was not real, it happened only in your mind, it was a joke".
Should the **** up you idiot it's obvious yours is fake you can't even prove it that it's real while PTR has proof that he has really spoken to Chris now GTFO you failure.

All that aside, doesn't this beg the question of will we ever know a true Juggernaut again? Now its not so much a test of Cyttorak's power vs <whoever> but it can be written off as a test of Cain's will to win vs whoever.

he clearly threw him aside

He did nothing.

He didn't stop the juggernaut, he slowed him down a little and then used his own momentum against him.

Originally posted by janus77
lol, you realise there is no absolute 'stop' so slowing down something to such an extent that it is redirected and/or that momentum builds up that it cannot then control, is basically proving that your strength overmatches its.

like a charging 5yr old who you hold at bay by placing your extended hand upon his head... he builds up momentum, because he doesn't have the strength to overcome your power but, once you let go, he can't control the momentum he's built up and he crashes into you.

just read some of Hulks past achievements, and honestly, the character is designed to wreck reputations and characters such as juggernaut.

he defeated the High Evolutionary's armour, with the HE inside it, ripped it to pieces in an hour - according to the HE.

another Elder of the universe, The Gardener had the Soul Gem taken from him by Hulk. he was astounded that the Hulk had power sufficient to match/overmatch him.

Apocalypse says his Celestial Tech reports that the power that The Hulk +generates+ (not some ultimate potential, but the power Hulk could realistically output) might be enough to challenge The Celestials.

the problem with the Hulk - Juggernaut conflict in the recent WWH arc is that Hulk just doesn't have the slightest bit of interest in juggernaut. he's not bothered, juggernaut is an insignificant factor, as is everybody else who is not part of the Illuminati.

also, and quite clearly, The Hulk fought all the X-men while severely holding back, with the safety-on, no kills no permanent damage, just enough to get the job done. so, naturally, the easiest way to beat juggernaut is not for Hulk to gee himself up to break Cyttorak's pet, but to simply bfr him using his superior strength and intellect.

Well a redirection isn't really overpowering someone, a martial artist can redirect the force of a blow and use someones own strength against them, the stronger the person the more force used against them.

This doesn't make the other person stronger, I've seen a 110lb Aikido master throw around men twice his size as if they're nothing, hes not overpowering them hes simply using their own size and strength against them.

If for instance someone charges you and you redirect the force of their charge downwards they will fall flat on their face, doesn't me you overpowered them, just means you were using your brain and yes ultimatley you have stopped their momentum but not through overpowering them.

What Gage is doing is showing that Hulk uses his brain and can control his rage and fight better than any other incarnation before him, redirected Cain's force downwards which slowed him almost to a stand still, we then see from the panel with their feet in it that the rubble is behind Hulk's foot but in front of Juggernaut's indicating that Cain's momentum is building and Hulk is slowly being pushed back.

However instead of game over for Hulk this is what Hulk wants to happen, when Prof X distracts him he seizes the moment, side steps him, gives him a slap on the back for good measure and lets momentum do the rest, so he did in fact uses Cain's own power against him to sling shot him almost out of the fight.

To me that takes nothing away from Juggernaut, still shows Hulk as at unheard of strength levels andalso shows just how good he is now with tactics and hand to hand skill and all fans can walk away happy with what to me is a very believable outcome and a good showing for both parties.

That should really be an end to it imo but the war no doubt will Rage on.

Just because someone says something and then a couple of his bestest mates agree with him and then they all shout it the loudest while sticking their fingers in their ears doesn't mean it is factual.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
Just because someone says something and then a couple of his bestest mates agree with him and then they all shout it the loudest while sticking their fingers in their ears doesn't mean it is factual.

Well if you think thats whats happening, then I suggest you stop trying to shout them down and go get proof of your own, like janus suggested.

So far we have seen a copy of only one email which has Gage's email address on it and that was the one PTR posted.

So the onus on proof is on you, not on us, so go get proof, present it without calling anyone an idiot and people will take a look at it.

At the end of the day, yes their are Hulk haters on this board as their are Hulk fans and fanboys, their are also a lot of us who really don't mind either way but need more than some ranting that hes right and everyone else is wrong to convince them.

So email him yourself, get the answer and post it, simple really.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
Just because someone says something and then a couple of his bestest mates agree with him and then they all shout it the loudest while sticking their fingers in their ears doesn't mean it is factual.

Uh, yeah...

And I'm sure something coming from a guy named DEVILHULK is factual....

Anyway....

http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emailiy7.jpg

Okay last try. I e-mailed him once more about the situation with the e-mails. It seems it was a misunderstanding of how he wrote to you Devil. I figured you had a liable e-mail, it was just written in a confusing way.



I am done with going back and forth. This guy was courteous enough to reply to both of my e-mails and I am not going to bother him again. Mr. Gage used the words "presenting" and "semantics", not actually halting his charge, but redirecting it. Basically stopping what Cain initially tried to do, which was push him out of the compound. Please take the time and read it all, and undestand what he is saying here. But if you still think it is fake or you misread/misunderstand this statement, so be it. But it doesn't hurt to accept that you are wrong.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You not only think Apocalypse meant that Hulk could fight the celestials, you actually think Hulk can beat Juggernaut at full power? haermm

JUGGERNAUT IS INVULNERABLE! HE CANNOT BE PHYSICALLY HARMED BY ANYTHING IF HE'S AT FULL POWER! JUGGERNAUT CANNOT BE STOPPED ONCE HE IS IN MOTION!

These are facts. They cannot be argued with, and if you attempt to do so, you become the next DevilHulk.

You can't seriously believe that though

A greater power than Cytorrak would be able to stop or harm Juggernaut with ease. For everyday purposes Juggernaut can be called unstoppable but he's really nothing of the sort.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You can't seriously believe that though

A greater power than Cytorrak would be able to stop or harm Juggernaut with ease. For everyday purposes Juggernaut can be called unstoppable but he's really nothing of the sort.

Juggernaut though is highly unlikely to come up against a foe who is more powerful than Cytorrak in his travels though, so for all intents and purposes he is unstoppable by a PHYSICAL force.

Obivously there are entities and abstracts a lot more powerful than Cytorrak who could not only halt him but blink him out of exsistance but hes hardly likely to be duking it out with one.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You can't seriously believe that though

A greater power than Cytorrak would be able to stop or harm Juggernaut with ease. For everyday purposes Juggernaut can be called unstoppable but he's really nothing of the sort. At the same time Hulk isn't really the strongest there is.

I mean let's be serious you have to go seriously high up in the Universal pecking order to go above an Elder God like Cyttorak.

Originally posted by Hercules
Juggernaut though is highly unlikely to come up against a foe who is more powerful than Cytorrak in his travels though, so for all intents and purposes he is unstoppable by a PHYSICAL force.

Obivously there are entities and abstracts a lot more powerful than Cytorrak who could not only halt him but blink him out of exsistance but hes hardly likely to be duking it out with one.
Originally posted by Newjak
At the same time Hulk isn't really the strongest there is.

I mean let's be serious you have to go seriously high up in the Universal pecking order to go above an Elder God like Cyttorak.

I know that but Trickster's insane zealotry is really irritating (especially since he never bothers to give evidence)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I know that but Trickster's insane zealotry is really irritating (especially since he never bothers to give evidence) I personally like Trickster's insane zealotry.

Makes me feel like I finally am getting the Juggernaut message across

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I know that but Trickster's really irritating

Co-signed.

Mother****ers..... durbeware I do give evidence. Just not when dealing with fanboys. It's not my fault the characters I'm usually defending have big ass respect threads.

and thanks, Newjak. durflowers

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Mother****ers..... durbeware I do give evidence. Just not when dealing with fanboys. It's not my fault the characters I'm usually defending have big ass respect threads.

and thanks, Newjak. durflowers No problem jugdurnaut

Originally posted by Newjak
At the same time Hulk isn't really the strongest there is.

I mean let's be serious you have to go seriously high up in the Universal pecking order to go above an Elder God like Cyttorak.
Savage Hulk has overpowered Elder Gods. there's scans of his confrontation with The Gardener.

but that is besides the point. there's the simple fact that War Hulk did it. that cement seems to retard juggernaut, even if for a short while.
he quite obviously isn't "unstoppable" nor is he indestructible, just highly durable and powerful.

even then, it doesn't really come to xxx >> Cyttorak, in order to physically best the juggernaut. he is an avatar true, but that doesn't mean he has the sum total of Cyttorak's power. he has a fraction.

and before the confused get started on the "a fraction of infinity still equals infinity" a) no it doesn't, you need to learn to deal with the concept of infinity, there are orders of infinity and great subtleties besides b) anyone with the powers of a whole universe/dimension, has by definition a limit to their powers and c) that limit is beyond meaningful quantification and thus is referred to as 'infinite'.

:. Hulk's infinite energies may still pale in the presence of Galactus, it doesn't mean that Hulk can hope to fight these abstracts, since they may have energies several billions of times more 'infinite' than his.

Originally posted by janus77
Savage Hulk has overpowered Elder Gods. there's scans of his confrontation with The Gardener.

but that is besides the point. there's the simple fact that War Hulk did it. that cement seems to retard juggernaut, even if for a short while.
he quite obviously isn't "unstoppable" nor is he indestructible, just highly durable and powerful.

even then, it doesn't really come to xxx >> Cyttorak, in order to physically best the juggernaut. he is an avatar true, but that doesn't mean he has the sum total of Cyttorak's power. he has a fraction.

and before the confused get started on the "a fraction of infinity still equals infinity" a) no it doesn't, you need to learn to deal with the concept of infinity, there are orders of infinity and great subtleties besides b) anyone with the powers of a whole universe/dimension, has by definition a limit to their powers and c) that limit is beyond meaningful quantification and thus is referred to as 'infinite'.

:. Hulk's infinite energies may still pale in the presence of Galactus, it doesn't mean that Hulk can hope to fight these abstracts, since they may have energies several billions of times more 'infinite' than his. Juggernaut took the Godforce without being hurt and took on Nightmare a being that was dominating Strange.

And Juggernaut does have low points but then again so does Hulk, python anyone.


Juggernaut like Hulk can sommon more power from Cyttorak based on how bad he wants something.

we don't know if he can "summon" more power. we know that Cyttorak can grant him more, but that's if Cyttorak feels like doing so... as juggernaut found out the first time he faced Hulk in the WWH arc.

more to the point, Juggernaut was stopped, for however brief a period of time, and thus the "unstoppable" claim is not true.

it also sheds light on the previous stoppage - War Hulk hurling juggernaut about like a toy - physical force. something that Hulk would always be able to do, given the will/anger...

still, they've played this well... juggernaut wasn't hurt and we're still waiting for a proper fight between these two.

Originally posted by janus77
we don't know if he can "summon" more power. we know that Cyttorak can grant him more, but that's if Cyttorak feels like doing so... as juggernaut found out the first time he faced Hulk in the WWH arc.

more to the point, Juggernaut was stopped, for however brief a period of time, and thus the "unstoppable" claim is not true.

it also sheds light on the previous stoppage - War Hulk hurling juggernaut about like a toy - physical force. something that Hulk would always be able to do, given the will/anger...

still, they've played this well... juggernaut wasn't hurt and we're still waiting for a proper fight between these two. Except as Cyttorak said "I didn't limit your power you did."

He said that Cain had a weak reason therefore was weak. Basically Cain gets stronger the more he wants something. So yes he can tap into more power.

He wasn't stopped he was redirected downward. So instead of pushing Hulk Cain was pushing the ground. There was no stopping at all.

And WAR HULK has celestial tech which helped negate some of Cain's power. Nothing special about it

Originally posted by Newjak
Except as Cyttorak said "I didn't limit your power you did."

He said that Cain had a weak reason therefore was weak. Basically Cain gets stronger the more he wants something. So yes he can tap into more power.

He wasn't stopped he was redirected downward. So instead of pushing Hulk Cain was pushing the ground. There was no stopping at all.

And WAR HULK has celestial tech which helped negate some of Cain's power. Nothing special about it
lol, again... as the writer's said too - momentarily stopped - redirecting it into the ground.

Hulk stood infront of juggernaut and juggernaut could not get passed him. that's stopping his forward momentum. the fact that it results in downward pressure is neither here nor there.

as I said a day ago, it's reminiscent of what happened with juggernaut when he was hit with the god blast of Thor's. the ground gave way.


as to the "I didn't limit you..." that's not the same as saying "you have ALL my power", it's been stated often enough that juggernaut is an avatar not a manifestation of Cyttorak. unless shown otherwise, the assumption remains that Cyttorak, wherever he is, requires some of his own powers to sustain himself and so cannot give juggernaut 100% of his powers.


regarding the Celestial Tech stuff, it didn't negate anything, it merely amplified The Hulk's strength. show me where it says it did any such thing as negating the magics? that's just baseless rationalisation and in the face of a character who has - in the same comic, by Apocalypse himself - been said to generate energies perhaps sufficient to trouble The Celestials.

Originally posted by janus77
lol, again... as the writer's said too - momentarily stopped - redirecting it into the ground.

Hulk stood infront of juggernaut and juggernaut could not get passed him. that's stopping his forward momentum. the fact that it results in downward pressure is neither here nor there.

as I said a day ago, it's reminiscent of what happened with juggernaut when he was hit with the god blast of Thor's. the ground gave way.


as to the "I didn't limit you..." that's not the same as saying "you have ALL my power", it's been stated often enough that juggernaut is an avatar not a manifestation of Cyttorak. unless shown otherwise, the assumption remains that Cyttorak, wherever he is, requires some of his own powers to sustain himself and so cannot give juggernaut 100% of his powers.


regarding the Celestial Tech stuff, it didn't negate anything, it merely amplified The Hulk's strength. show me where it says it did any such thing as negating the magics? that's just baseless rationalisation and in the face of a character who has - in the same comic, by Apocalypse himself - been said to generate energies perhaps sufficient to trouble The Celestials. If Cain is still moving in a direction whether it be forward down backwards or up he isn't stopped as being stopped means no momentum but Juggs still had it.

The Problem with your analogy is that Cyttorak lives in the Crimson Cosmos where he is like God and wields infinite energy so Juggernaut can always will himself more just like Hulk can rage more strength.


Let me see where I got it from. Cain was pushing Hulk back until Hulk started to Glow green from the CELESTIAL TECH. Once he started to glow then Cain was stopped. Seeing as it is confirmed Cain can get stronger the more he wants something the only thing there that could possibly over power him was the tech.

Originally posted by Newjak
If Cain is still moving in a direction whether it be forward down backwards or up he isn't stopped as being stopped means no momentum but Juggs still had it.

The Problem with your analogy is that Cyttorak lives in the Crimson Cosmos where he is like God and wields infinite energy so Juggernaut can always will himself more just like Hulk can rage more strength.


Let me see where I got it from. Cain was pushing Hulk back until Hulk started to Glow green from the CELESTIAL TECH. Once he started to glow then Cain was stopped. Seeing as it is confirmed Cain can get stronger the more he wants something the only thing there that could possibly over power him was the tech.
as I said in another post, I wasn't talking about an absolute stop but comparing who is the more powerful. Hulk didn't redirect juggernaut by applying force from a side, but by standing in front of him and applying greater force against him.

like if I stood infront of a charging five year old and placed my palm on his head, extending out my arm... he could keep moving, my arm my wobble, but he's not going to get passed me.

as for juggernaut's power, reread what I wrote, I feel you haven't really understood.


re the Celestial Tech thing - again, you've not proved or even given reasonable grounds for supposing anything like what you're suggesting.

Originally posted by janus77
as I said in another post, I wasn't talking about an absolute stop but comparing who is the more powerful. Hulk didn't redirect juggernaut by applying force from a side, but by standing in front of him and applying greater force against him.

like if I stood infront of a charging five year old and placed my palm on his head, extending out my arm... he could keep moving, my arm my wobble, but he's not going to get passed me.

as for juggernaut's power, reread what I wrote, I feel you haven't really understood.


re the Celestial Tech thing - again, you've not proved or even given reasonable grounds for supposing anything like what you're suggesting. Except that isn't what Hulk did. Hulk redirected the Juggernaut's Momentum so he wouldn't take the brunt of it. Not that he overcame it but that he managed to lessen the burden on him and even still it clearly shows Hulk's feet being pushed back on panel.


I understand what you meant but understand this the only way Cain will never have enough power is if he is going against someone Greater than Cyttorak. Which would be a greater infinite because Cyttorak is infinite in the Crimson Cosmos.


And the proof is on the panel. If Hulk overcame Juggernaut purely physically why was he GLOWING?

throw a ball against a wall, ball bounces. the wall's stronger. throw a ball in the air, hit it at an angle with a coin and it will alter the flight of the ball. see the difference?
juggernaut's forward momentum was overcome by Hulk's power.

for juggernaut and Cyttorak to exist as independent entities, juggernaut cannot have 100% of Cyttorak's power. moreover, it's long been accepted that Juggernaut is an avatar and a mere fraction of Cyttorak's power.

if it was Hulk versus Cyttorak, but a purely physical battle, then you could say that Hulk would need to be greater than Cyttorak to win. but it isn't, thus this formulation is always erroneous.

also, Hulk has bested Elders, out muscling the Gardener and The High Evolutionary.

and re the War Hulk thing, remember he was siphoning energies from two universes. that glow was probably a visual cue to that fact. showing how War Hulk was pulling in more energies, to boost his strength.

Originally posted by janus77
throw a ball against a wall, ball bounces. the wall's stronger. throw a ball in the air, hit it at an angle with a coin and it will alter the flight of the ball. see the difference?
juggernaut's forward momentum was overcome by Hulk's power.

for juggernaut and Cyttorak to exist as independent entities, juggernaut cannot have 100% of Cyttorak's power. moreover, it's long been accepted that Juggernaut is an avatar and a mere fraction of Cyttorak's power.

if it was Hulk versus Cyttorak, but a purely physical battle, then you could say that Hulk would need to be greater than Cyttorak to win. but it isn't, thus this formulation is always erroneous.

also, Hulk has bested Elders, out muscling the Gardener and The High Evolutionary.

and re the War Hulk thing, remember he was siphoning energies from two universes. that glow was probably a visual cue to that fact. showing how War Hulk was pulling in more energies, to boost his strength.

But Juggernaut's power is apparently dependent on his will to win. So that means he can dynamically increase his powers just by willing it.

Gardener isn't much of a feat.....but the HE? You seriously think Hulk beat the HE legitimately? HE wanted Hulk to smash his armor.

Like I said back at the beginning,
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
In any case, War Hulk stopping Juggernaut is not a feat for Hulk or one he can replicate. It's a feat for Apocalypse and his celestial technology that enhanced Hulk.

Apocalypse's tech enabled that win, whether Hulk supplied the power or not.

Plus, you can't seriously believe Apoc was serious when he said WarHulk could fight the celestials.....shocklaugh

lol, I guess you've been arguing with DevilHulk too long. you're resembling him .

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
But Juggernaut's power is apparently dependent on his will to win. So that means he can dynamically increase his powers just by willing it.

Cool.

Guess how Hulk's powers work

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Gardener isn't much of a feat.....but the HE? You seriously think Hulk beat the HE legitimately? HE wanted Hulk to smash his armor.

Originally posted by janus77
as I said in another post, I wasn't talking about an absolute stop but comparing who is The more powerful. Hulk didn't redirect juggernaut by applying force from a side, but by standing in front of him and applying greater force against him.



That doesn't really hold true, redirecting mass isn't about having greater counter force. Its about having just enough force to redirect it. They don't have to be stronger then someone to redirect there charge, check The akido expert who would could (not always) toss The charging bench press champ aside.

Yes it is true hulk stood in front of juggs, yet at The same time he redirect it downward, (which is why The mansion started to give way).

When Juggernaut regained himself, (which at that point Juggernaut had made The comment about their dance) from his initial charge, and started to push Hulk once again (evidence by Hulks foot sliding back, you cant deny that).

Professor X interrupted Juggernaut, and Hulk wisely sidestepped and pushed Juggs on his back and let him go. Now you could say, Hulk could have gotten stronger and stalemated juggs, in the same accord I could also say Juggernaut could have gotten stronger and pushed Hulk more, we will never know so to say either argument would not be 100% true, all we do not is that, Juggernaut did push Hulk's foot back, if ever so slightly, which is what I think the writer and the artist wanted to get across.

I don't mind saying Hulk stopped Juggernauts initial charge, but you have to be willing to say that after Juggernaut regained himself, He was pushing Hulk back.

And by Pushing Hulk back from a standstill (because remember he stopped his initial charge) Juggernaut didn't have to power of The enchantment on his side, He had to straight up OVERPOWER hulk with pure strength, again, their is on panel evidence to support this also.