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rock lee cant use the sacred jutsu (its like an automatic win)

Zabuza and Haku

Neji can take on either Haku or Zabuza. But for thsi fight I'd say..

Neji defeats Haku and Rock Lee rapes Zabuza.

Rock Lee can't take Zabuza. Haku using bloodline limit > Zabuza = Kakashi = Gai >>> Lee or Neji.

Haku's Ice Mirrors for the win. As long as he doesn't fool around and goes straight for the kill so he doesn't use up chakra and get slow enough for Lee or Neji to hit him.

Haku won't even get a hit in. if Naruto barely even in Kyuubi can do it Neji can sure as hell do it. Heavenly spin ftw. And Rock Lee with either weights off or gates will destroy Zabuza.

Lee with Gates would win yes. But Lee with out weights is still not as strong as Gai and Gai is as strong as Kakashi and Zabuza is as strong or stronger than Kakashi. Lee without the use of Gates is loosing to Zabuza. And the op said no sacred jutsu so I'm guessing he means no Gates since they are a Forbidden Jutsu.

And Haku had lost a lot of chakra and was moving slower because the jutsu uses up a lot of chakra. He even states this. If he goes straight for the kill unlike he did against Sasuke and Naruto not even the Byakugan is going to save Neji.

How would he kill Neji? Every time he tries to barrage Neji with needles all he has to do is use his heavenly spin and he'll deflect all of them. And the heavenly spin doesn't take up as much chakra as one would think, the only reason whats his name (The spider guy with the bow) was able to stop Neji's spin was because the little spiders spun webs around him, which kept him from rotating. Also, who says Haku will even get the chance to use that jutsu? I took like 30 seconds for the ice mirrors to even form up. As soon as the match starts Neji just uses his superior speed and H2H and touches Haku once. Just once. And Haku's dead. Neji ftw.

As for Rock Lee I see no reason why weightless Lee would be unable to win. We all saw how slow Zabuza's sword is, and when Kakashi fina;;y got serious and pwned him he didn't use any fancy maneuvers. He just slapped him twice, punched him, and used his Kunai to disable his arms. Zabuza hasn't shown any good speed feats.

Either way the Mist duo lose.

Neji is a bad match for Haku. Kaiten will stop the whole needles thing. As far as Zabuza, I haven't seen enough of him to really tell. Being the rank he was he should be able to beat lee but thats a guess.

It would take as long as it would to do Byakugan. And Neji has a blind spot. Also he has to be able to move fast enough to do the Kaiten. Haku would be to fast one he was inside the Ice Mirrors. And if he goes straight for the kill he can do it unless he goes easy on Neji.

Also Kakashi was able to use his sharingan when he easily beat Zabuza on the bridge. Zabuza can easily reduce Lee's vision to zero so he won't be able to charge around. Lee will be wondering where he is at his speed will be useless.

If Lee just moves around at insane speeds it won't matter. Zabuza won't even be able to catch-up.

And again who says Haku will even have time to summon the Ice Mirrors? They're instantaneous. When Sasuke got trapped in it was PIS because he literally just stood there and watched himself get surrounded. Neji won't.

actually its wrong to assume that haku>kakashi cause kakashi admitted it and he was stronger than zabuza. that was the FIRST story arc. and ALL characters have far surpassed their previous levels. in that arc all of them were weaklings.

this is no match. neji and lee cumberstomp them.

Except Kakashi isn't stronger without his Sharigan there to help. And the students improve sure but Kakashi doesn't. Kakashi and Gai are still more powerful than Neji and Rock Lee. If Haku used his Ice Mirrors against Kakashi he isn't going to loose against Kakashi if he doesn't fool around. Also Zabuza admits Haku is stronger than him because of his Bloodline Limit.

Sasuke also doesn't just stand there and let the Ice Mirrors happen. He didn't have much choice in the matter. It's one quick hand sign and they are up. And Kaiten isn't going to break them. Also the needles would be flying faster than Neji could do the Kaiten is Haku didn't fool around because he didn't want to kill them. Sasuke only hit him and dodged him bacuse Haku messed around to much and was using up to much chakra and was getting slower.

It would all result in Neji vs Haku. If Haku takes Neji first Haku and Zabuza win but if Haku fights Lee first he'd exhaust his chakra to much to take out Neji while Zabuza can reduce Lee's visibility to zero so Lee's speed would mean absolutely nothing because he wouldn't be able to see anything where Byakugan would be able to see through the mist and he could seal off Zabuza's chakra and beat him that way. So I think it could go either way depending on who fights who. Cause I doubt Zabuza is going to know what Neji can do before it's to late.

How do you know Kakashi is going to lose? Proof please.

I think Kakashi, with his superior Sharingan, would easily break out of the mirrors easily.

And no, the mirror jutsu takes at least 5-10+ seconds to form up. Neither the Manga nor the Anime show it to be instantaneous. So Neji just spped blitz's Haku and Rock Lee defeats Zabuza.

Neji will know where haku is any way due to his byakugan, his heavenly spin thing takes care of any attack towards him. Also Haku is not stronger than Kakashi wtf he was no where near his level. Rock Lee can keep zabuza busy while Neji defeats Haku.

theres a reason he was known as a genius. he was a genius ninja FAR before the shaaringan. kakashi has improved a HELL of a lot. he was battling itachi and kidsame, the sound nin, diedara and whatnot. gai has always been extremely powerful, late;y opening 7 gates and killing kisame clone and whatnot{he was practically FLYING like a rocket}. you cant use their current power levels and compare them to their INITIAL power levels an use that to say that HAKU>KAKASHI/GAI>LEE/NEIJI. his ice mirror were DESTROYED by an unpracticed kyuubi CHAKRA naruto.



kaiten is far faster than the needles of haku. and strong enough to break the mirrors. remember, REAL kyuubi chakra naruto was deflected by his kaiten.



both of them will die at the hands of either neiji or lee. its a pity too, tehy were such great and tragic characters. odd how they had almost NOTHING to do with the story after the chuunin arc began.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
theres a reason he was known as a genius. he was a genius ninja FAR before the shaaringan. kakashi has improved a HELL of a lot. he was battling itachi and kidsame, the sound nin, diedara and whatnot. gai has always been extremely powerful, late;y opening 7 gates and killing kisame clone and whatnot{he was practically FLYING like a rocket}. you cant use their current power levels and compare them to their INITIAL power levels an use that to say that HAKU>KAKASHI/GAI>LEE/NEIJI. his ice mirror were DESTROYED by an unpracticed kyuubi CHAKRA naruto.



kaiten is far faster than the needles of haku. and strong enough to break the mirrors. remember, REAL kyuubi chakra naruto was deflected by his kaiten.



both of them will die at the hands of either neiji or lee. its a pity too, tehy were such great and tragic characters. odd how they had almost NOTHING to do with the story after the chuunin arc began.
He easily lost to Itachi and he didn't fight Kisame really. He didn't really do so well against Deidara until he pulled out his Mangekyou, and the Sound and Sand Nin were being taken out in groups by nearly every ninja in Konoha. Kakashi doesn't improve in skill very much at all besides the Mangekyou Sharingan.

Naruto was controlling the Kyuubi chakra he wasn't Kyuubi Naruto like he was against Haku or against Sasuke. Also Haku was moving slower and Haku had used up a lot of Chakra. Plus Kyuubi > Kaiten anyday.

What is Lee going to do if he can't even see to do anything? He isn't going to run around blindly in Mist unable to see his target at all. And how is Neji going to get out of Ice Mirrors. Just because he can see him doesn't mean he can hit him and using Kaiten all the time would use up a lot of chakra also. It would either come down to either a lucky hit from Haku from Neji's blind spot or who lost the most chakra first.

Originally posted by Shin_Blax
How do you know Kakashi is going to lose? Proof please.

I think Kakashi, with his superior Sharingan, would easily break out of the mirrors easily.

And no, the mirror jutsu takes at least 5-10+ seconds to form up. Neither the Manga nor the Anime show it to be instantaneous. So Neji just spped blitz's Haku and Rock Lee defeats Zabuza.

Because it took Kyuubi Naruto to break out and Kyuubi Naruto > Kakashi by a whole lot.

And what it Kakashi going to do? Mangekyou Sharingan the Ice Mirrors and take the chance of missing Haku and then getting killed while he has no strength? I highly doubt that.

And yes in those few seconds it's forming, Neji is going to speed blitz because he knows exactly what it is when if he went forwards it could grab him or something worse. And How does Rock Lee get past the Mist technique?

Originally posted by Magee
Neji will know where haku is any way due to his byakugan, his heavenly spin thing takes care of any attack towards him. Also Haku is not stronger than Kakashi wtf he was no where near his level. Rock Lee can keep zabuza busy while Neji defeats Haku.

Knowing where Haku is will help Neji how if he's trapped in the Ice Mirrors? Also Kakashi is stronger but he isn't going to win if he gets caught in the Ice Mirrors. Zabuza was stronger than Haku but he even admits he can't stand against Haku if he used the Ice Mirrors.

ROCKLEE WOULD BE STRAIGHT AT HAKU FOR HIS SHEER SPEED IS GREATER AND HED KICK HIS ASS NEJI THEN WOULD WOOP HIS ASS (ZABUZA)

Apparently you people dont watch naruto much do you?How in the world will Rock Lee or Neji beat Zabuza Momochi a elite Jonin?Rock open 5 gates on Gaara a chunin and still lost but you think it would work on Zabuza?Haku lost to Naruto because the demonic ice mirrors use alot of chakra.If you read the japanese manga or watched the japanese dub of the show you would of read that.Haku states holding the mirrors in place and moving that the speeds he moved uses a incredible amount of chakra which is why Sasuke was begging to see him movement and the reason nine tailed Naruto was able to beat him.
Zabuza would beat Neji and Rock Lee by himself but with Haku there to help this would be over in a flash.

This is tough. I think I'll go with Neji and Rock.

Team 2 wins.

This isnt Dragonball z you know.....characters at the begging of the series paled in power to characters at the end.Naruto is alot different and this difference is the main reason i like it better than Dragonball

According to the official japanese power guide Neji's power,speed and skill still aren't even close to being near Zabuza.Do you think the Mizukae selected Zabuza to be a chunin because some kids could beat him?Zabuza and Haku had to die in their fights with Kakashi,Naruto and Sasuke...there is no other way around it.If Haku would of killed Naruto and Sasuke instead of just trying to put them to sleep you know how different the show would be?There would be no Naruto...The name of the show would have to change.If Zabuza would of just killed Kakashi in their first fight then Naruto and Sasuke would of been killed by him.]

We don't know how powerful Haku might have been because he never fought to kill.We only know that Kakashi a highly skilled ninja said there was no way for him to copy or destroy the "demonic ice mirrors so a chibi induced Naruto shouldn't have been able to destroy it either.Not only was Zabuza Momochi a elite level Jonin he was a anbu Member and a member of the seven swordsman of the mist.Of all of the Jonin shown so far Zabuza is probably still one of the best according to the official japanese stats guide.
Instead of saying on character would win because he is cool how about you learn about both characters before you choose who would win in a battle.

lee's taikutsu is surpassed by no one other than gai lee would own zabuza

Lee would be cut in half by Zabuza.

Originally posted by yungz22
lee's taikutsu is surpassed by no one other than gai lee would own zabuza A lot of people surpass Lee in taijutsu...

Correct. Ice Mirrors takes a lot of chakara to sue. Neji can use the kaiten multiple tiems without having to worry much, however. Aside from that he's way faster then Haku is outside outside of the ice mirrors technique. That being said,this is how it goes down.


Scenario 1: Neji defeats Haku nigh instantly when they clash in H2H first. He helps Rock Lee, who is more then quick enough to hold his own against Zabuza, and the duo win.

Scenario 2 (Dumbass fail Anime logic.): Haku somehow survives long enough to use the demon ice mirrors. Neji uses kaiten and easily repels all of the senbon barrages until Haku starts to tire out. Neji rapes sodomizes him with a chakra finger afterwords. Rock Lee is fighting Zabuza and usig his speed to stay out of reach for the most part.. either goes gates and rapes him brutally or Zabuza stalls for time with mist and survives. Then Neji comes, uses Byakugan to easily see through the mist, and rapes Zabuza utterly.

Secnario 3: Neji sues his Byakugan to easily counter the mist and kills Zabuza hardcore with the gentle fist while Rock Lee stalls for time with the gates in the ice mirrors. Rock Lee either wins or he dies, then Neji finishes Haku off.

Lee getting trapped inside the ice mirrors would loose horribly against Haku who wasn't messing around. Lee has no way to dodge all the needles or block them. Haku in the mirrors is faster than Lee is.

As for Byakugan seeing through the mist...still not sure how he's suppose to see through it. No matter how far he looks everything is going to be cloudy. Well he may be able to tell where Zabuza is by chakra but he's not going to be able to dodge a sword he isn't going to be able to see.

As for the other...Neji would probably beat Haku since Neji can block with Kaiten and not loose as much chakra as quick as Haku would be using Ice mirrors. However Lee wouldn't even come close to beating a Jonin ninja who is close to Gai's level which Zabuza is. Even Neji is still weaker than Gai. Neither one should have a real shot at taking out somebody at Zabuza's level. Kakashi had the sharingan to help him out both times. Not to mention Kakashi is a much better fighter, and smarter than either Lee or Neji. Just because he was like the second villain doesn't make him weak. Naruto and Sasuke before the time skip never got to Kakashi's power, and the chunin exams not one of the genin were strong as Kakashi besides Kabuto who wasn't really there to actually take the test. We have no way of knowing how strong Neji and Lee are after the time skip...since they pretty much did nothing but I have a hard time seeing them beating Kakashi even if Neji is a jonin. There are a lot of Jonin that weren't stronger than Kakashi even during the beginning. Haku also not killing Sasuke and Naruto was because he doesn't like to kill not because he couldn't. Well maybe in Naruto's case he couldn't but he never tried in either case.

Neji was able to free himself from being trapped in the water prison created by Kisame. In where Kakashi being trapped in the same water prison by Zabusa was not able to do it at all by himself.

So even if its true that Neji is still weaker than Kakashi. You can't actually say he can't defeat Zabusa.

Lee can take out Haku easily. Haku's demonic Ice prison < Lee's speed. Remember that when Sasuke's sharingan awakened he can see the attacks already and somehow avoid it. In where the same sharingan wasn't even able to cope up at Lee's attack in their first encounter. This was a Lee with the weights on and before the Chuunin exam.

So Neji and Lee wins this one.

Haku also was getting slower by the time the sharingan awakened because of how much chakra was being drained using that technique. Sasuke could also see Lee fine..he just couldn't react. Haku also wasn't trying to kill Sasuke nor Naruto.

Not to mention he was not trying to physically keep up with Haku either. He was trying to keep up with Lee but could not. He was just trying to blast Haku with fireballs while using Naruto as a distraction.

lee with weights off or drunken would ripp zabuza after that he would go help neji by breaking the mirrors from the outside

Lee with weights off would still die, as would drunken.

Why? The only time I've seen Zabuza do anything impressive was when he was in the water. Outside of that... the only impressive thing he has is his mist jutsu.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Why? The only time I've seen Zabuza do anything impressive was when he was in the water. Outside of that... the only impressive thing he has is his mist jutsu. Which is enough to kill Lee honestly. He is also very fast as shown when he threw his sword and landed on it the moment it hit the tree. He is physically more powerful than Lee or Neji easily. He has very high level destructive water jutsu as well, which will be hard to dodge(and certainly to block) for either. He also has far more experience than either in fighting. With the mist, killing Lee shall be easy.

Where was that insane speed when Kakashi was beating his ass, and even my fatass could have dodged that vertical slash he made when Kakashi was tending to Haku? Even if his movement speed is fast we have never seen him attack quickly. We have never seen him use that jutsu in a place were there isn't an abundance of water, so whatever destructive water jutsu he has is irrelevant unless he's fighting on or near a large water source.

Simple brute strength is pointless unless you have superior durability, otherwise someone who is faster then you will beat you. And Neji can kill Zabuza with one punch. So... *shrug*

The Mist doesn't cover an infinite area of land, and again it depends on if there's a water source around. Zabuza doesn't just randomly spout mist out of his ass. He needs a water source first. Same rules as above apply.

Despite that, even with mist activated it's not an automatic loss. Mist does not spread out infinitely, the only reason it was dangerous was because Kakashi and co. were on a bridge with no where to go. Weightless Lee's speed is incredible enough for him to, at the least escape from the mist depending on the area.

The location that this is taking place at is the ultimate answer really.

Zabuza and Haku are dead already so therefore, this fight never happens.

Where was that insane speed when Kakashi was beating his ass, and even my fatass could have dodged that vertical slash he made when Kakashi was tending to Haku? Even if his movement speed is fast we have never seen him attack quickly. We have never seen him use that jutsu in a place were there isn't an abundance of water, so whatever destructive water jutsu he has is irrelevant unless he's fighting on or near a large water source.

Simple brute strength is pointless unless you have superior durability, otherwise someone who is faster then you will beat you. And Neji can kill Zabuza with one punch. So... *shrug*

The Mist doesn't cover an infinite area of land, and again it depends on if there's a water source around. Zabuza doesn't just randomly spout mist out of his ass. He needs a water source first. Same rules as above apply.

Despite that, even with mist activated it's not an automatic loss. Mist does not spread out infinitely, the only reason it was dangerous was because Kakashi and co. were on a bridge with no where to go. Weightless Lee's speed is incredible enough for him to, at the least escape from the mist depending on the area.

The location that this is taking place at is the ultimate answer really.



Where was Kakashi's speed when Zabuza almost killed him in their first fight?Maybe i watch a different Naruto from what you people watch because the one i watch Zabuza had the upper hand in their second fight until Kakashi's tracking dogs bit his arms.Let some big dogs bite your arms and lets see how fast you could swing a sword.
Zabuza only needed the mist to began with because Kakashi has a sharingan eye.You people act like the ony way Zabuza could beat anyone is if he is hiding in mist when the offical japanese ninja stats state he is a 9 out of 10 in taijutsu a 9 out of 10 in ninjutsu and pretty much a 8 or higher at every other ninja skill besides genjutsu


Haku also was getting slower by the time the sharingan awakened because of how much chakra was being drained using that technique. Sasuke could also see Lee fine..he just couldn't react. Haku also wasn't trying to kill Sasuke nor Naruto.

Exactly the japanese manga stated that the demonic ice mirrors use alot of chakra to keep up and haku moving at high speeds also burns up alot of chakra which is the reason Sasuke could track him at the end.Even Sasuke said he knew Haku was never trying to kill him even at the end when Sasuke sharingan emerged.As i said we don't know how powerful Haku was because he wasn't a killer.Based on what i read in the official japanese naruto guide's to become a Jonin a ninja need to know at least 2 elemental Jutsu so apparently Zabuza would have to know at least 2 right and the fact he wasn't just a regular Jonin he was a elite Jonin so he probably knew more than 2.
I also said this so let me repeat it.There was no way that Zabuza or Haku could win the fight again Naruto,Sasuke and Kakashi because if they did the show would be over.Think abou it...why didn't Haku try to kill Kakashi when Zabuza was injured up against the tree in their first fight?There would be no way for Kakashi to know Haku would throw needles at him so there would be no way to avoid it.Why didn't Zabuza's water clone didn't just kill Naruto and Sasuke instead of just punching them around a little.Why did Zabuza only swing his head cleaving sword once in their second fight and then put it on his back?Kakashi had no way to know where Zabuza was in the mist but Zabuza knew how to kill Kakashi just by using sound alone.
Most of you think just because Rock Lee and Might Gai can open the 8 inner gates that means they cant be defeated which is hilarious since opening 5 gates agaist Gaara who was a chunin level fighter almost got him killed.Zabuza is also better at taijutsu than lee is or even Kakashi.Might Gai is one of the fastest people on the show but none of the characters on naruto think Gai is a better ninja than Kakashi do they and Kakashi,Lee,Haku and Zabuza speed are all 8 out of 10 compared to Gai's 10 out of 10.Even if you look at Nenji and Rock Lee's stats after the time skip neither is even close to Zabuza's level yet.Rock Lee stats are basically the same as they were when the show started.
I doubt Neji and Rock Lee together could beat Zabuza never mind Zabuza and Haku together.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Where was Kakashi's speed when Zabuza almost killed him in their first fight?

Last I checked the first fight also took place directly on a lake, where Zabuza ahd the advantage in every way. But wait. Where was Zabuza's speed when Kakashi BEAT him? Once Kakashi stopped playing around and acivated his sharingan he made Zabuza look like a clown, actually believing that he could see the future.



Kakashi used the dogs to keep Zabuza in one place so he could use his raikiri. Ninja can take having big ass shuriken thrown into there backs, impaled with hundreds of senbon needles, stabbed with kunai, set on fire, thrown into mountains at high velocities, and not even care. Why would a couple of dog bites, which weren't even that deep, be so damaging? Sounds like BS to me. Zabuza didn't lose the ability to use his sword right until Kakashi stabbed him in the elbows with his kunai, but by that point the fight was already mostly over. Zabuza never had a chance of beating Kakashi when Kakashi goes all out.



Number stats mean nothing. Feats and abilities are the only thing that matter in debates.




Don't see what this has to do with anything. He's not getting past Neji's kaiten. And Neji's chakra will last a lot longer then Haku's will if he uses ice mirrors.

But again. Who says Haku would last long enough to use it? I still say Neji kills him before he can use it.



Gaara would kill Haku with utter ease. He'd beat him in maybe.... ten, twenty seconds tops? And unless Zabuza used some uber water jutsu, Gaara would rape him as well.



You're using stats, which don't count as canon sources in debates.

The fact of that matter is that what we've seen of Zabuza's taijutsu and sword skills are pathetic in comparison with the likes of Neji, Rock Lee, and kakashi who straight up pwned Zabuza once he quit playing around.

Wait Gaara beating Zabuza? Gaara is powerful sure, and even more so when he unleashes Shukaku..though that can be argued about it not being Gaara...however Gaara isn't going to go around easily killing the top dogs. Actually Gai was able to stop his sand pretty easy as it was going in to kill Lee. Not one of those genin ever proved they had what it takes to beat a Jonin. Kakashi's sharingan is what got him the win against Zabuza. Kakashi's sharingan would get him a win over a lot of people as strong and as skilled as him though. Zabuza not being able to beat the sharingan has no bearing on this match at all. As for where they'd fight. Sure the OP could put them wherever he wanted but do you think Zabuza would attack somebody unless it was around water? Going by personalities Zabuza fighting away from water would just be stupid and Zabuza isn't stupid. Neither Lee nor Neji would do half as well as Zabuza did. They may be strong genin but during the first half of the Naruto they weren't even close to Jonin level. And where they stand now isn't known even if Neji is Jonin that says he's powerful but not if he's top rank of the Jonin or bottom of it.

If Gaara were to wrap himself completely in sand like he did against Sawsgay, I don't see Zabuza beating him.

People toss the word "Jounin" around like it means something. It's nothing more then a title, like king or commander. Only thing that really matters is what we've seen these people do in combat. And what we've seen from Neji and Rock Lee is quite simply much more impressive then what we've seen either Haku or Zabuza do.

If Lee nearly kicked Gaara's ass in the chunin exams, he might be able to harm Zabuza. If Neji was trapped in that mirror jutsu created by Haku, when Haku jumps from mirror to mirror throwing those needles, Neji can push them back all the time just by using that jutsu that has him rotating fast enough to make the wind currents stronger to push back almost anything that comes near him. If possible, Haku will get exhausted leaping from mirror to mirror and he uses up all his chakra causing the mirrors to disappear. Even with Haku going super fast, Neji will still own him.


ROCK LEE AND NEJI OWN THE GUY IN BANDAGES, AND THE GUY WHO LOOKS LIKE A WOMAN. If you ask me, Haku's gay for Zabuza

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Only thing that really matters is what we've seen these people do in combat. And what we've seen from Neji and Rock Lee is quite simply much more impressive then what we've seen either Haku or Zabuza do.

Hell even early Sasuke without the Sharingan beat Haku at Taijutsu and called him slow. How the hell can he react to either Neji or Lee's attack. Sure his demonic ice mirrors is deadly but either of the 2 can hold their own until he runs out of Chakra and they would start pummeling his girly @ss.

Zabusa's main taijutsu would be a slash or a thrust. If he engage Neji in Taijutsu in his initial attack. One strike from a Gentle Fist and he would be paralyze. And unable to move. Neji would then go set him up for the 64 or 128 points of divinity which will then cause Haku to take it in instead of Zabusa. Leaving then Zabusa still paralyze to be finished off by a either a Lotus or Another Points of Divinity.

Originally posted by Kento
Haku also was getting slower by the time the sharingan awakened because of how much chakra was being drained using that technique. Sasuke could also see Lee fine..he just couldn't react. Haku also wasn't trying to kill Sasuke nor Naruto.

Haku was getting slow because his chakra was depleted, yes. But is Sasuke also in top condition when he dodge those needles? No he was also at his limit because yeah he was also at the fight that cause Haku to exhaust his chakra.

When he fought Lee on the other hand he was fresh and ready to fight but still could't react to what he sees.

Plus if you compare a kick to needle. I think a needle is much harder to evade than a kick. But he avoided the needle and not the kick. Thus I conclude that:

Lee's speed is faster than Haku's needles.

Well, it's actually quite possible that Lee's kicks > Haku's senbon, but that's easy to see. Even though he was getting his ass kicked, he was able to dodge/deflect many of the senbon. The danger isn't the senbon speed so much as Haku's movement speed though. He moves so fast that even if the senbon are dodgeable there are so many coming at once that you get overwhelmed.

So while Lee's kick might be > Haku's senbon, I don't think Lee is faster or as fast as Haku when he's doing the demon mirrors. Though he'd kick his ass in a taijutsu fight.

Doesn't matter though. LEe hangs with Zabuza. Neji easily defeats Haku.

Neji has to spin to use Kaiten. Haku in the mirrors speed is enough to hit a bunch of Naruto's spread around in a group many times, and is so fast it looks like Naruto is standing still. I think it is a fair guess Haku can kill Neji before he can do Kaiten.

I disagree. As noted the senbon needles themselves don't move that fast, it's just that there's so many of them that it's hard to dodge them.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
I disagree. As noted the senbon needles themselves don't move that fast, it's just that there's so many of them that it's hard to dodge them. No, but Haku moving out of the mirrors is fast.

Right. So.. ? His movement speed is fast, but not to the point where he can just tackle Neji like I think you're trying to say.
Don't forget that aside from the twirl, he can simply release chakra fro his pores and it'll act like a shield but without the deflection power, and that version is activated with a mere thought...

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Right. So.. ? His movement speed is fast, but not to the point where he can just tackle Neji like I think you're trying to say.
Don't forget that aside from the twirl, he can simply release chakra fro his pores and it'll act like a shield but without the deflection power, and that version is activated with a mere thought... True, but Neji will have to be doing that constantly, he will have no time for attack and will run out of chakra eventually.

And Zabuza wrecks Lee.

Neji's kaiten takes less chakra to use then Haku's demon ice mirrors. This has been said, constantly, by people in here. Even the pro-Haku ones. Neji will simply outlast Haku and kill him easily. And again, this is all if Haku lives long enough to use the ice mirrors in the first place, which he wont because Neji is far faster and a far superior fighter then Haku outside of ice mirrors, and can kill him with one punch. Haku would only have time to use the ice mirrors if we used stupid anime logic. Neji stands in one spot like a dumb**** staring in awe as a bunch of slow ass mirrors rise up around him. Not going to happen.

We're going in circles. If you want your statement to mean anything other then you're obviously biased in Zabuza and Haku's favor, go refute the last five pro-Rock Lee arguments that you have ever so conveniently chosen to ignore. Otherwise, I'll pass it off as a rave from a fanboy, and move on.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Neji's kaiten takes less chakra to use then Haku's demon ice mirrors. This has been said, constantly, by people in here. Even the pro-Haku ones. Neji will simply outlast Haku and kill him easily. And again, this is all if Haku lives long enough to use the ice mirrors in the first place, which he wont because Neji is far faster and a far superior fighter then Haku outside of ice mirrors, and can kill him with one punch. Haku would only have time to use the ice mirrors if we used stupid anime logic. Neji stands in one spot like a dumb**** staring in awe as a bunch of slow ass mirrors rise up around him. Not going to happen.

We're going in circles. If you want your statement to mean anything other then you're obviously biased in Zabuza and Haku's favor, go refute the last five pro-Rock Lee arguments that you have ever so conveniently chosen to ignore. Otherwise, I'll pass it off as a rave from a fanboy, and move on. 1. Neji's Kaiten takes less to use, yes, but he would have to constantly use it, so over time Haku will lose chakra, but Neji if forced to use Kaiten every nanosecond...Yeah, he is gonna lose chakra faster. Haku's jutsu drains him of chakra slowly, wheras Kaiten takes chakra everytime it is used. It is not like everytime Haku leaves a mirror he loses chakra. Far faster? Not really, he is not as fast as you make him out to be, certainly not Rock Lee speed. And for one...Who the hell says Haku and Neji fight? If Zabuza fights Neji, he will be destroyed.

2. Kay. Zabuza has shown speed to physically keep up with Kakashi, who is faster than Neji and as fast as Lee. Zabuza has shown greater physical strength as well. And with the Mist, he will be invisible, even to the Byakugan, which could prolly see his chakra, but not Zabuza himself, nor will he see his sword. Also, one other thing you have not remembered is Haku's ability to easily find the weakness of any jutsu, in this case, the blind side of the Byakugan. Using that, he can put a senbon directly where the blindspot is located, and Neji will not be able to do shit. And Zabuza's strongest Water Jutsus will destroy Neji or Lee.

Now, you can say,"But there's no wata!!!!!" But I think it is fairly obvious that this battle was meant to take place in an area where the opponent's get all their abilities to use(as is KMC rule btw), so...Yeah.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Neji's kaiten takes less chakra to use then Haku's demon ice mirrors. This has been said, constantly, by people in here. Even the pro-Haku ones. Neji will simply outlast Haku and kill him easily. And again, this is all if Haku lives long enough to use the ice mirrors in the first place, which he wont because Neji is far faster and a far superior fighter then Haku outside of ice mirrors, and can kill him with one punch. Haku would only have time to use the ice mirrors if we used stupid anime logic. Neji stands in one spot like a dumb**** staring in awe as a bunch of slow ass mirrors rise up around him. Not going to happen.

We're going in circles. If you want your statement to mean anything other then you're obviously biased in Zabuza and Haku's favor, go refute the last five pro-Rock Lee arguments that you have ever so conveniently chosen to ignore. Otherwise, I'll pass it off as a rave from a fanboy, and move on.

Agreed, Nejis can block/deflect anything thrown at him by Hakus ice mirrors. Frankly haku wont evn get dat opportunity as he will be dead. Neji is a much better taijutsu fighter and can stop haku from performing any jutsu with just one hit and then proceed to kill him with the next one. His Byakugan will also allow him to see haku from any directiom and avoid getting trapped in the ice mirrors. Rock lee is fast enough to hang with zabuza long enough fro neji to assist him and then the fights over

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Neji's Kaiten takes less to use, yes, but he would have to constantly use it, so over time Haku will lose chakra, but Neji if forced to use Kaiten every nanosecond...Yeah, he is gonna lose chakra faster. Haku's jutsu drains him of chakra slowly, wheras Kaiten takes chakra everytime it is used. It is not like everytime Haku leaves a mirror he loses chakra. Far faster? Not really, he is not as fast as you make him out to be, certainly not Rock Lee speed. And for one...Who the hell says Haku and Neji fight? If Zabuza fights Neji, he will be destroyed.

2. Kay. Zabuza has shown speed to physically keep up with Kakashi, who is faster than Neji and as fast as Lee. Zabuza has shown greater physical strength as well. And with the Mist, he will be invisible, even to the Byakugan, which could prolly see his chakra, but not Zabuza himself, nor will he see his sword. Also, one other thing you have not remembered is Haku's ability to easily find the weakness of any jutsu, in this case, the blind side of the Byakugan. Using that, he can put a senbon directly where the blindspot is located, and Neji will not be able to do shit. And Zabuza's strongest Water Jutsus will destroy Neji or Lee.

Now, you can say,"But there's no wata!!!!!" But I think it is fairly obvious that this battle was meant to take place in an area where the opponent's get all their abilities to use(as is KMC rule btw), so...Yeah.

Neji is not getting caught in those ice mirrors period. Byakugan allows him to see them from any direction and promptly exit. Also Neji is considerably faster than Haku. An example of his speed is seen when he fought the sound ninja who then commeneted on how fast Neji was.

Also Neji will be able to see zabuzas bodys chakra outline. This will help him avoid zabuzas attacks. Neji might not beat zabuza one on one but he can survive long enough for lee to arrive and together they win

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Neji is not getting caught in those ice mirrors period. Byakugan allows him to see them from any direction and promptly exit. Also Neji is considerably faster than Haku. An example of his speed is seen when he fought the sound ninja who then commeneted on how fast Neji was.

Also Neji will be able to see zabuzas bodys chakra outline. This will help him avoid zabuzas attacks. Neji might not beat zabuza one on one but he can survive long enough for lee to arrive and together they win 1. Nope, has a blindspot, which Haku will exploit. And Zabuza is considerably faster than Neji, point?

2. Kay, he won't see his sword coming towards him. He will die, the Mist believe it or not will fvck up the Byakugan.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Nope, has a blindspot, which Haku will exploit. And Zabuza is considerably faster than Neji, point?

2. Kay, he won't see his sword coming towards him. He will die, the Mist believe it or not will fvck up the Byakugan.

The way you talk about the byakugan, u make it seem like it is better to have normal eyes. The only reason nejis blind spot was exploited was because the sound ninja was fighting him from a distance that was beyond the byakugans reach and he evn admitted that he would be dead in direct physical combat. How is haku going to exploit the blind spot when he is fighting neji head on like he did against naruto and sasuke before the mirrors? Did they not have blind spots? How is haku ging to exploit nejis blind spoy when neji is facing him all the time and trying to attack? The ice mirrors come up in different directions and are visible to people wit normal eyes let alone the byakugan. This whole business of exploiting his blind spot is just rubbish.

And then to the thing of Zabuzas sword, Nejis byakugan has shown that it can work as an x ray and see through substances, just like he did in the chunin exam where he looked through somebody. He can look through the mist and see the sword.

He'd only have to use it when Haku attacks, and yes whenever Haku uses that attack he loses chakra. That's why he slows down. Moving that fast burns through his chakra. So the only way Neji would have to "defend constantly" would be if Haku attacks constantly. Haku's chakra will burn far faster then Neji's will. So no. And Neji is > Rock Lee without his weights on, that's why Rock Lee learned to use the gates it was, according to him, his way of beating Neji. If he could defeat him with his weights off he wouldn't need a move specifically designed to beat him.



Now I know you're reaching for straws, this is the most pathetic thing you've said so far.

Who the hell says they won't? And Zabuza will never defeat Neji.

Neji has a Byakugan that allows him to see through any object, including mist. He can also see in every direction at once, so there is no way Zabuza will sneak up on him. Neji's attack speed >>> Zabuza's attack speed by far far far. So the way the score is, Zabuza has no way of sneaking up on him, so he's going to have to fight him head-on. Neji is far faster, and unlike Zabuza one punch to any part of his body will completely **** him up. One punch to the chest will kill him. Neji won't be getting hit by Zabuza's slow moving sword after what we've seen him dodge. So no, Neji would wreck Zabuza's shit in a straight up fight.



No he hasn't. Both times when Kakashi got serious he raped him. Kakashi easily dodged Zabuza's sword slash while tending to Haku, and Zabuza came up from behind, yet he couldn't do him in. Zabuza can't hold a candle to kakashi in anything except brute strength, otherwise he's his *****.



I'm not even going to waste my time at this point. Here,





Prove it. Prove the Byakugan can't see through fog.

Show me.

Even if he does have this "zOMG uber haxx pwoerz", only Neji's byakugan has this blindspot. The kaiten is completely impenetrable. Try again.




What you "think", doesn't mean anything. That's like automatically assuming that any match involving Gaara and Sandman will start in a desert so they can fully use there abilities, or that Malak automatically starts on the Star Forge so that he can use hsi special amped abilities. And there's no rule stating that.

So no. However, just to humor you, I don't see why the Kaiten couldn't protect him from a water attack. Better yet, I don't see why Neji can't just dodge it. Or speed blittz. Let's take a look shall we.

cPgZrllGwYs

gg3nbGSBcNg

I suppose that you're going to say next that Neji is just going to stand there, like an idiot, and let Zabzua do all 50 of those hand seals? No. Zabuza will never have enough time to do that. Show me Zabuza pulling off any of those attacks in the heat of combat, without his opponentn just staring at him not moving thirty feet away on a lake, wiithout anime PIS, and you might actually have a case.




Neji is leagues faster then Zabuza. Prove otherwise. And as for the blindspot...





Prove it.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
The way you talk about the byakugan, u make it seem like it is better to have normal eyes. The only reason nejis blind spot was exploited was because the sound ninja was fighting him from a distance that was beyond the byakugans reach and he evn admitted that he would be dead in direct physical combat. How is haku going to exploit the blind spot when he is fighting neji head on like he did against naruto and sasuke before the mirrors? Did they not have blind spots? How is haku ging to exploit nejis blind spoy when neji is facing him all the time and trying to attack? The ice mirrors come up in different directions and are visible to people wit normal eyes let alone the byakugan. This whole business of exploiting his blind spot is just rubbish.

And then to the thing of Zabuzas sword, Nejis byakugan has shown that it can work as an x ray and see through substances, just like he did in the chunin exam where he looked through somebody. He can look through the mist and see the sword. 1. No, it is a literal area near the back of the head that Neji cannot see from. Head on? Idk, by putting a Senbon in it? He was not trying to really harm Naruto or Sasuke. Haku can fly from the mirrors with speed and put a senbon in the back of his head.

2. See through the mist? That is like saying he can see through air. There is mist all around, he cannot see through the mist.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
He'd only have to use it when Haku attacks, and yes whenever Haku uses that attack he loses chakra. That's why he slows down. Moving that fast burns through his chakra. So the only way Neji would have to "defend constantly" would be if Haku attacks constantly. Haku's chakra will burn far faster then Neji's will. So no. And Neji is > Rock Lee without his weights on, that's why Rock Lee learned to use the gates it was, according to him, his way of beating Neji. If he could defeat him with his weights off he wouldn't need a move specifically designed to beat him.



Now I know you're reaching for straws, this is the most pathetic thing you've said so far.

Who the hell says they won't? And Zabuza will never defeat Neji.

Neji has a Byakugan that allows him to see through any object, including mist. He can also see in every direction at once, so there is no way Zabuza will sneak up on him. Neji's attack speed >>> Zabuza's attack speed by far far far. So the way the score is, Zabuza has no way of sneaking up on him, so he's going to have to fight him head-on. Neji is far faster, and unlike Zabuza one punch to any part of his body will completely **** him up. One punch to the chest will kill him. Neji won't be getting hit by Zabuza's slow moving sword after what we've seen him dodge. So no, Neji would wreck Zabuza's shit in a straight up fight.



No he hasn't. Both times when Kakashi got serious he raped him. Kakashi easily dodged Zabuza's sword slash while tending to Haku, and Zabuza came up from behind, yet he couldn't do him in. Zabuza can't hold a candle to kakashi in anything except brute strength, otherwise he's his *****.



I'm not even going to waste my time at this point. Here,





Prove it. Prove the Byakugan can't see through fog.

Show me.

Even if he does have this "zOMG uber haxx pwoerz", only Neji's byakugan has this blindspot. The kaiten is completely impenetrable. Try again.




What you "think", doesn't mean anything. That's like automatically assuming that any match involving Gaara and Sandman will start in a desert so they can fully use there abilities, or that Malak automatically starts on the Star Forge so that he can use hsi special amped abilities. And there's no rule stating that.

So no. However, just to humor you, I don't see why the Kaiten couldn't protect him from a water attack. Better yet, I don't see why Neji can't just dodge it. Or speed blittz. Let's take a look shall we.

cPgZrllGwYs

gg3nbGSBcNg

I suppose that you're going to say next that Neji is just going to stand there, like an idiot, and let Zabzua do all 50 of those hand seals? No. Zabuza will never have enough time to do that. Show me Zabuza pulling off any of those attacks in the heat of combat, without his opponentn just staring at him not moving thirty feet away on a lake, wiithout anime PIS, and you might actually have a case.




Neji is leagues faster then Zabuza. Prove otherwise. And as for the blindspot...





Prove it.

Meh. Gonna go play some basketball with some friends. I'll destroy your inevitable reply when I get back, foo'!super13

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No, it is a literal area near the back of the head that Neji cannot see from. Head on? Idk, by putting a Senbon in it? He was not trying to really harm Naruto or Sasuke. Haku can fly from the mirrors with speed and put a senbon in the back of his head.

2. See through the mist? That is like saying he can see through air. There is mist all around, he cannot see through the mist.

It seems u dont understand that haku is not going to be able to use the mirrors at all. Heck see how slowly they came up. Nejis byakugan will allow him to easily evade the mirrors. Nejis blindspot can only be exploited by haku if he is in the mirrors but he will neva get such a chance. Neji will utterly dominate haku in direct physical combat and win easily as he has numerous advantages.

And how can you compare mist and air. For one air is a clear gas and hence vision is not impaired. Mist is however a totally different story as it does impair vision. Mist is not clear and hence normal human beings cannot see throughout. As long as it is not clear neji can see through it and will see in all directions.

Mist is nothing more then air with water vapor and drops of water in it, hence, it's matter. The Byakugan allows the user to see through all forms of matter, so he can see through mist, yes.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
He'd only have to use it when Haku attacks, and yes whenever Haku uses that attack he loses chakra. That's why he slows down. Moving that fast burns through his chakra. So the only way Neji would have to "defend constantly" would be if Haku attacks constantly. Haku's chakra will burn far faster then Neji's will. So no. And Neji is > Rock Lee without his weights on, that's why Rock Lee learned to use the gates it was, according to him, his way of beating Neji. If he could defeat him with his weights off he wouldn't need a move specifically designed to beat him.



Now I know you're reaching for straws, this is the most pathetic thing you've said so far.

Who the hell says they won't? And Zabuza will never defeat Neji.

Neji has a Byakugan that allows him to see through any object, including mist. He can also see in every direction at once, so there is no way Zabuza will sneak up on him. Neji's attack speed >>> Zabuza's attack speed by far far far. So the way the score is, Zabuza has no way of sneaking up on him, so he's going to have to fight him head-on. Neji is far faster, and unlike Zabuza one punch to any part of his body will completely **** him up. One punch to the chest will kill him. Neji won't be getting hit by Zabuza's slow moving sword after what we've seen him dodge. So no, Neji would wreck Zabuza's shit in a straight up fight.



No he hasn't. Both times when Kakashi got serious he raped him. Kakashi easily dodged Zabuza's sword slash while tending to Haku, and Zabuza came up from behind, yet he couldn't do him in. Zabuza can't hold a candle to kakashi in anything except brute strength, otherwise he's his *****.



I'm not even going to waste my time at this point. Here,





Prove it. Prove the Byakugan can't see through fog.

Show me.

Even if he does have this "zOMG uber haxx pwoerz", only Neji's byakugan has this blindspot. The kaiten is completely impenetrable. Try again.




What you "think", doesn't mean anything. That's like automatically assuming that any match involving Gaara and Sandman will start in a desert so they can fully use there abilities, or that Malak automatically starts on the Star Forge so that he can use hsi special amped abilities. And there's no rule stating that.

So no. However, just to humor you, I don't see why the Kaiten couldn't protect him from a water attack. Better yet, I don't see why Neji can't just dodge it. Or speed blittz. Let's take a look shall we.

cPgZrllGwYs

gg3nbGSBcNg

I suppose that you're going to say next that Neji is just going to stand there, like an idiot, and let Zabzua do all 50 of those hand seals? No. Zabuza will never have enough time to do that. Show me Zabuza pulling off any of those attacks in the heat of combat, without his opponentn just staring at him not moving thirty feet away on a lake, wiithout anime PIS, and you might actually have a case.




Neji is leagues faster then Zabuza. Prove otherwise. And as for the blindspot...





Prove it. 1. For one, when is the last time we have seen Neji do a constant Kaiten? Haku can press the offensive, and I have never seen Neji use Kaiten over and over again. Neji is faster than Rock Lee without the weights? Lol, prove it, he has never shown to be that fast, EVER. Overall he is better than Lee, but Lee takes speed. Oh, and Haku's reaction time with throwing Senbon is phenomenol, he was able to catch Zabuza's shuriken easily.

Oh yeah, btw, Haku's Ice Mirrors are only slow in anime. In manga, they are near instant.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/24/Naruto24-11/

And as we see, Sasuke was not able to react at all to being attacked by multiple needles, one could kill if Haku wished.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/24/Naruto24-16/

Shown again here, only with both Naruto and Sasuke.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/25/Naruto25-09/

2. I would prefer you not insult me.

Who says they will? This battle can go many ways. And Zabuza will DESTROY Neji.

Including mist? Prove it. He sees through people by using it to see past objects, there is mist everywhere here. He can see past all the mist eh? No he cannot. Zabuza can't sneak because Neji will see his chakra, but he won't see his sword flying towards him. Neji is far faster? Never shown it. Zabuza can travel like a hundred feet instantly the moment his sword hit a tree so he could land on it. He is fast enough to fight Kakashi, he is fast enough to fight Neji. Any hit to his body? Like every hit to Hinata or Naruto crippled them? Lol. Any sword slash from Zabuza will cripple Neji, his name is "Never Cuts Twice" for a reason. One hit to the head, abdomen, or arm, will cripple of kill Neji. Slow moving? He could hit Kakashi with it. Oh, and when Kakashi dashed to save Sasuke from Haku's Ice Mirrors, Zabuza was fast enough to get in his path before he could make any real distance. And here is Zabuza shown rushing Kakashi and wounding him.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/26/Naruto26-03/

Here is one of him blitzing Kakashi, who with the Sharingan was able to block, and then appearing behind Kakashi.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/26/Naruto26-11/

Here is Zabuza callin Kakashi too slow lolz.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/26/Naruto26-14/

3. He easily dodged a Zabuza with ever limb on his body fvcked up, along with his neck and back, and with one arm useless. Yeah, I think it is pretty safe to say Zabuza's speed was compromised. Zabuza the first battle beat Kakashi, who had help to escape the prison. Zabuza's confidence got in the way. He was then ill prepared to handle the Sharingan. Second time Zabuza had the upper hand, until Kakashi summoned dogs from the ground...Let's be honest, who the hell would have expected that shit?

Oh, and here is some evidence that Zabuza was not going all out, he was not getting "Beat like an idiot", he had Haku observing for their next fight so he can properly fight the Sharingan.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/26/Naruto26-08/

4. It is like a super telescope, it can see past things, but when said thing is all that surrounds you and the person that you are tryin to see is in said thing, well it will be useless. Oh, and as for saying prove it cannot see through fog, I can't prove a negative, you have to prove it can.

5. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/26/Naruto26-08/

Keep on reading to hear Zabuza explaining what Haku observed.

Hell, actually here it is.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/26/Naruto26-14/

6. Yeah, there is. The Star Forge is an amp. And the rules clearly state they all have access to all their abilities.

7. Once again, fvck the anime.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/15/naruto_v02_ch015_154/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/15/naruto_v02_ch015_155/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/15/naruto_v02_ch015_156/

"That many seals, and in seconds"

Lolz

Read the friggin manga.

8. Already did.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Mist is nothing more then air with water vapor and drops of water in it, hence, it's matter. The Byakugan allows the user to see through all forms of matter, so he can see through mist, yes. Air is matter, it has mass because it can move objects, and it takes up space cause, well, look at balloons.

Lee and Neji take it !!

www.narutohurricane.com/character-bios

Check out character bio's and stats.I think the writers for the show would now who is faster and strong and better at Taijutsu.And with that i am done.Some people will never learn..you can prove them dead wrong and they will still argue to prove themselves even if they are dead wrong.
Comparing Zabuza's fight with Kakashi a another elite Jonin with the sharingan with some dimwit like Rock Lee because he can open some of the inner gates yet still gets beat by a chunnin level ninja like Gaara cracks me up.Jonin is the highest ninja ranking you can aquire besides Kage which means they are far more skilled then gennin and chunnin.
Some characters have to die to keep the plot going.There was no way Kakashi,Naruto or Sasuke were going to lose that fight against Zabuza and Haku.The show is called Naruto for crying out loud.Why would you think he would be killed so early in the shows life cycle?They manga stated over and over that Haku was so skilled at throwing needles he could kill or put a fighter to sleep with one needle yet he threw countless needles and couldn't put Sasuke or Naruto to sleep.The only reason Zabuza lost to Kakashi the most skilled ninja in the hidden leaf village was becasue Zabuza put his sword on his back and Kakashi had tracker dogs.
Not only was his arms damaged he was fighting somebody with a sharingan and as you know it is almost impossible to fight a person with sharingan head on.Some dumb dumb said when Kakashi got serious and used the sharingan he dominated Zabuza which is funny since Kakashi was using the sharingan the whole fight and why wouldn't he be serious when a highly skilled ninja is trying to kill him and his team?Kakashi even stated that if Naruto and Sasuke weren't there in the first fight he would of died.Kakashi was defeated with one kick.That was all it took to defeat the man Tsunade thinks would be a good Hokage.But anyway just go to that site and read and learn.

Well lately it seems like the show is called Sasuke and the Magical Eye.

If Neji can see trough water then he can certainly see trough fog.

www.narutohurricane.com/character-bios

This is nothing more but a fansite and thus its not canon. Heck anybody could create their own fansite and create character bios of their own.

I say it again Neji and Lee will take down Zabusa and Haku.

This is nothing more but a fansite and thus its not canon. Heck anybody could create their own fansite and create character bios of their own.

I say it again Neji and Lee will take down Zabusa and Haku


The stats are from the offical Naruto guide.Let me say this one more time little kids..Kage are the highest level ninjas then Jonin then Chunnin and then Gennin.No Chunnin or Gennin level ninga could beat a regular Jonin never mind a "elite" Jonin and if you can't get than then i feel sorry for you.

http://narutoinfo.ru/pages-13.html

Another stats guide.I guess everyone is making up these stats because they are Zabuza Momochi fans right?This one is better because it shows even in the new Naruto episodes Neji and Rock Lee still arent close to being as good as Zabuza.

lee drunken was able to keep up with kimmimaru for a while and neji was impaled by a strong bow and arrow and i know zabuza or haku cant beat any of the sound 4 so there you have it lee and neji would win against zabuza and haku

Originally posted by yungz22
lee drunken was able to keep up with kimmimaru for a while and neji was impaled by a strong bow and arrow and i know zabuza or haku cant beat any of the sound 4 so there you have it lee and neji would win against zabuza and haku The Sound 4 are epic fail suck ninjas of faggotry. Only Kimmy was worth a shit.

I thought Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura beat Zabuza and Haku. If they can I'm prtty sure that Lee and Neji can also.

Originally posted by yungz22
lee drunken was able to keep up with kimmimaru for a while and neji was impaled by a strong bow and arrow and i know zabuza or haku cant beat any of the sound 4 so there you have it lee and neji would win against zabuza and haku The same sound 4 that only beat the Jonin that are unimportant because they were weak from the mission they just got back from? The sound 4 who would have been beaten by those same unimportant Jonin if they hadn't of been weakened? The same sound 4 that were beaten by some of the strongest genin but low tier in terms of actual power of the village? As for Lee...Kimimaro was doing fine against him without even using cursed seal, and was moving only because of willpower. Lee has no chance against Kimimaro...except to make a cool fight scene. Tayuya in cursed seal 2 was stalled by Shikamaru...seriously Shika is my man but he's not exactly powerful and he was able to not die right away even before he got his plan into action. Neji tells Kidomaru he was weaker than Naruto during the chunin tournament. So yea they aren't all that great.

Originally posted by Kento
The same sound 4 that only beat the Jonin that are unimportant because they were weak from the mission they just got back from? The sound 4 who would have been beaten by those same unimportant Jonin if they hadn't of been weakened? The same sound 4 that were beaten by some of the strongest genin but low tier in terms of actual power of the village? As for Lee...Kimimaro was doing fine against him without even using cursed seal, and was moving only because of willpower. Lee has no chance against Kimimaro...except to make a cool fight scene. Tayuya in cursed seal 2 was stalled by Shikamaru...seriously Shika is my man but he's not exactly powerful and he was able to not die right away even before he got his plan into action. Neji tells Kidomaru he was weaker than Naruto during the chunin tournament. So yea they aren't all that great.

but im pretty sure neither zabuza nor haku could stay in the fight as long as lee did against kimmimaru and remember lee was weak too because he had just come from surgery and regardless neji still beat kidomaru with last resort eight gates assault

Those were not jonin, they were CHUNIN. Weakened chunin(may have been special jonin, in other words, chunin with some joni abilities)would have beaten them if they did not use the Cursed Seals. The Sound 4 suck ass.

Originally posted by yungz22
but im pretty sure neither zabuza nor haku could stay in the fight as long as lee did against kimmimaru and remember lee was weak too because he had just come from surgery and regardless neji still beat kidomaru with last resort eight gates assault Like I said Kidomaru was weak...Neji even says he was weaker than Naruto. Kimimaro even points out that Lee's a bad fighter because he's to easy to predict. His speed is the only reason he was so good. Which is probably a good reason Neji can beat him easily since the Byakugan reads people anyway. I think Zabuza being a better fighter with a lot of long range attacks would last easily enough until he died. Haku...his jutsu wouldn't really work but he may be able to stay alive long enough.

@Dark-Jaxx - I thought they were Jonin. Well them being Chunins makes it even worse that they would have beaten them if they hadn't of been weakened.

Originally posted by Kento
Like I said Kidomaru was weak...Neji even says he was weaker than Naruto. Kimimaro even points out that Lee's a bad fighter because he's to easy to predict. His speed is the only reason he was so good. Which is probably a good reason Neji can beat him easily since the Byakugan reads people anyway. I think Zabuza being a better fighter with a lot of long range attacks would last easily enough until he died. Haku...his jutsu wouldn't really work but he may be able to stay alive long enough.

@Dark-Jaxx - I thought they were Jonin. Well them being Chunins makes it even worse that they would have beaten them if they hadn't of been weakened. Yeah, they were either chunin or Special Jonin, Chunin with a Jonin level area of ability, but not Jonins. So the Sound 4 can't beat weakened chunin/special jonin without their Cursed Seals. They suck.

Originally posted by Tech243
I thought Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura beat Zabuza and Haku. If they can I'm prtty sure that Lee and Neji can also. Kakahi beat Zabuza and killed Haku. Sakura did nothing, Sasuke got beat by Haku, and Naruto had to have Kyuubi emerge to even do anything to Haku.

None of the sound 4 were Jonin...there were chunnin so weak they got killed by other chunnin.Why is it that hard for you little kids to get.No Chunnin or Gennin level ninja could beat a Jonin or a elite Jonin like Zabuza,Kakashi,Might Gai, or whatever elite Jonin you choose.Like i said Rock Lee opened 5 gates and still lost to Gaara a chunnin at that point in time with no speed,strength or taijutsu.If Gaara was so powerful then why not send a Jonin like Kakashi to deal with him instead of Naruto and Sasuke?Gaara was weak at that time and no Jonin would waste their time fighting some punk kid.Zabuza and the other Jonin have completed many A rated missions which are the hardest but you still think some chunnin because they look cool could beat a Jonin?This is hilarious and silly even trying to explain it to you.Zabuza alone could beat Neji,Rock Lee and TenTen with ease and probaby could beat all 3 after the time skip.
How many times have you seen fighters like Kakashi or Zabuza move as fast at Rock Lee?Not often right even though their official stats say they are just as fast as Lee.Neither of them fight that way.I am sure Itachi is pretty fast and i never seen him move at that speed either.The show only showed Zabuza using water clones even though if you read the manga all Jonin level fighters can use shadow clones.All Jonins know how to use at least 2 elemental Jutsu like water fire earth ect ect ect but they only showed Zabuza using water attacks.Every character on Naruto fights different which is one of the ways the show is better than Dragonball Z where all of the Z Warriors did the Kamehameha every 5 seconds.
Haku on the other hand wasn't fighting to kill from the begging or the end of his fight with Sasuke and Naruto.Imagine fighting somebody holding back while they try their best to kill you.Haku would of easily beating both Naruto and Sasuke if he was a killer.Haku is also on of the smartest teen ninja in the show.Most adults never figure out the sharingan but he could after only seeing it once.Rock Lee is a idiot and Neji isn't much better.One on one neither had the talent to defeat Haku....I said this in a earlier post so let me say it again.We don't know how powerful Haku might have been but we know as a small child who had no clue how to control his powers he was able to erect huge ice spikes through his house and kill his dad and the attacking mob.Haku's abilities were controlling wind and water right?So who says he couldn't freeze of cool a persons blood which is made mostly out of water?We only know his jutsu were so were great enough where Kakashi himself said there was no way Naruto or Sasuke could beat him and that even as powerful as he was that he couldn't copy or destroy the demonic ice mirrors.

Originally posted by big juggy man
None of the sound 4 were Jonin...there were chunnin so weak they got killed by other chunnin.Why is it that hard for you little kids to get.No Chunnin or Gennin level ninja could beat a Jonin or a elite Jonin like Zabuza,Kakashi,Might Gai, or whatever elite Jonin you choose.Like i said Rock Lee opened 5 gates and still lost to Gaara a chunnin at that point in time with no speed,strength or taijutsu.If Gaara was so powerful then why not send a Jonin like Kakashi to deal with him instead of Naruto and Sasuke?Gaara was weak at that time and no Jonin would waste their time fighting some punk kid.Zabuza and the other Jonin have completed many A rated missions which are the hardest but you still think some chunnin because they look cool could beat a Jonin?This is hilarious and silly even trying to explain it to you.Zabuza alone could beat Neji,Rock Lee and TenTen with ease and probaby could beat all 3 after the time skip.
How many times have you seen fighters like Kakashi or Zabuza move as fast at Rock Lee?Not often right even though their official stats say they are just as fast as Lee.Neither of them fight that way.I am sure Itachi is pretty fast and i never seen him move at that speed either.The show only showed Zabuza using water clones even though if you read the manga all Jonin level fighters can use shadow clones.All Jonins know how to use at least 2 elemental Jutsu like water fire earth ect ect ect but they only showed Zabuza using water attacks.Every character on Naruto fights different which is one of the ways the show is better than Dragonball Z where all of the Z Warriors did the Kamehameha every 5 seconds.
Haku on the other hand wasn't fighting to kill from the begging or the end of his fight with Sasuke and Naruto.Imagine fighting somebody holding back while they try their best to kill you.Haku would of easily beating both Naruto and Sasuke if he was a killer.Haku is also on of the smartest teen ninja in the show.Most adults never figure out the sharingan but he could after only seeing it once.Rock Lee is a idiot and Neji isn't much better.One on one neither had the talent to defeat Haku....I said this in a earlier post so let me say it again.We don't know how powerful Haku might have been but we know as a small child who had no clue how to control his powers he was able to erect huge ice spikes through his house and kill his dad and the attacking mob.Haku's abilities were controlling wind and water right?So who says he couldn't freeze of cool a persons blood which is made mostly out of water?We only know his jutsu were so were great enough where Kakashi himself said there was no way Naruto or Sasuke could beat him and that even as powerful as he was that he couldn't copy or destroy the demonic ice mirrors. Your posts hurt my eyes.

Gaara could beat fodder Jonin. His powers are hax.

I'm still waiting for Blax's reply.

Originally posted by Kento
Like I said Kidomaru was weak...Neji even says he was weaker than Naruto. Kimimaro even points out that Lee's a bad fighter because he's to easy to predict. His speed is the only reason he was so good. Which is probably a good reason Neji can beat him easily since the Byakugan reads people anyway. I think Zabuza being a better fighter with a lot of long range attacks would last easily enough until he died. Haku...his jutsu wouldn't really work but he may be able to stay alive long enough.

@Dark-Jaxx - I thought they were Jonin. Well them being Chunins makes it even worse that they would have beaten them if they hadn't of been weakened.


neji said naruto was the one who would save sasuke from the light not that naruto was stronger

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I'm still waiting for Blax's reply.

haermm

Originally posted by yungz22
neji said naruto was the one who would save sasuke from the light not that naruto was stronger Neji called Naruto the strongest person he ever faced while Kidomaru he called his strongest enemy. In the same sentence also. When he starts telling Kidomaru about the whole destiny thing.

Gaara could beat fodder Jonin. His powers are hax

Gaara couldn't even beat Naruto who was still a gennin trying to become a chunnin.If Gaara was so dangerous then why not send Kakashi to stop him?If the sound 4 were dangerous then why send gennin/chunnin to stop them.Why do you think Zabuza Momochi was a Jonin/a ANBU member/7 Swordsman of the mist?Do you believe the Mizukage appointed Zabuza these positions because he was unskilled and chunnin and gennin could beat him?


I seen some guy say Kakashi was toying with Zabuza and once he got serious he beat Zabuza easy?Where here are some direct quotes from their fight to show that Zabuza was the one toying with Kakashi.This also shows Haku could defeat Kakashi too with his kekkei genkai.

Zabuza : The Sharingan again?Such a unimaginative guy!

Kakashi : You might call me "an unimaginative guy". but you are afraid of the Sharingan after all....Zabuza!

Zabuza :The secret technique of a Shinobi...isn't something that you show your opponent so many times.

Kakashi: Be appreciative.You're the only man who had the chance to see it twice...And there will be no third time.

Zabuza: Even if you were able to defeate me,you can't defeat Haku...

Sakura:What?Kakashi Sensei can't win?

Zabuza explains how he found Haku and how he trained him.Then he explains how he knows about the Sharingan.


Kakashi: Zabuza...We're both busy people.I know it's against your style,But i think it's about time we stopped playing around.Why don' we settle this once and for all wtih the next move?

Zabuza:Interesting.What can you possibly do in this situation?
Kakashi ,go ahead.Show me. (How would Zabuza know Kakashi had tracking dogs?If he did I doubt he would of put his sword back on his back)

This shows that the only reason Sasuke eventually began to see Haku was because he was losing chakra.

Sasuke: Just because i can the trail,doesn't mean I can keep up with his speed.

Sasuke:It's likely that there's a limit to that guy's Chakra too!I can feel him slowing down.

Haku: Those eyes..I can't be...Sharingan...You are...

Sasuke: Only a little but I was able to see!

Haku: So,you also have the power of Kekkei Genkai...What a kid...It's not perfect yet, but to think that in the middle of a battle he was able to rouse this power...I that's the case.I can't fight him too long...This Jutsu uses alot of Chakra. There are also limits to retaining the teleportation speed.

Man I wish i knew how to put pictures from the manga to show this instead of just typing it. But this shows Haku wasn't afraid because Sasuke had the Sharingan just suprised and it also shows Sasuke could only see him because he was getting fatigued.If Kakash couldn't figure out how how to destroy the mirrors then why do you think Sasuke could?

Rock Lee was only sucessful against Sasuke because he was using taijutsu which is effective against the Sharingan...or well against somebody who didn't master it like Sasuke.This wasn't a real fight either.I am sure Sasuke didn't think Rock Lee was that talented not to mention Haku had to worry about Sasuke and Naruto who were both trying to kill him while he was holding back.

The fight between Kakashi and Zabusa cannot be considered as a one on one scenario. He had too many things to think about first was that not only did he have to guard himself but also Sakura and the old guy. He also was also not in 100% attentive mode because he was worried at Sasuke and Naruto's condition. As it is their first true fight.

Zabusa on the other hand could care less about what was to happen to Haku and could strike either Kakashi, Sakura, or the Old Guy. It was a Handicapped match and yet Kakashi still won.

And about those websites that contains character bios. I said that I don't believe that there were canon but if there were then I'd have to use them myself then.

Neji's stats at Pre-Chunnin
http://narutoinfo.ru/pages-8.html


Kidoumaru's stats - scroll down to Kidoumaru's
http://narutoinfo.ru/pages-238.html

Now if you'd look at the stats Kidoumarou is way more powerful than Neji at that time. Then why the hell did Neji win? Because as blax said it all comes down to skill and what the Character can and cannot do against it's opponents.

I could care less if Whether Kakashi is weaker than Zabusa and Kakashi is stronger than Neji and then you would automatically presume Zabusa then is stronger than Neji. Hell if that's your reasoning then we could now all see Sasuke as being the strongest on the series. Because Sasuke defeated Itachi and Orochimaru.
He is now stronger than Kakashi and the 3rd Hokage who was then defeated by the two respectively.

Neji and Lee will take down Zabusa and Haku

Originally posted by dant3g0

Now if you'd look at the stats Kidoumarou is way more powerful than Neji at that time. Then why the hell did Neji win? Because as blax said it all comes down to skill and what the Character can and cannot do against it's opponents.

I could care less if Whether Kakashi is weaker than Zabusa and Kakashi is stronger than Neji and then you would automatically presume Zabusa then is stronger than Neji. Hell if that's your reasoning then we could now all see Sasuke as being the strongest on the series. Because Sasuke defeated Itachi and Orochimaru.
He is now stronger than Kakashi and the 3rd Hokage who was then defeated by the two respectively.

Neji and Lee will take down Zabusa and Haku There is a difference between Kidomaru and Zabuza. Besides the power difference Zabuza is a better fighter. There is also a difference between who Sasuke beat and Kakashi. Nobody Kakashi beat wanted to die or was already dying. Besides Sasuke is stronger than Kakashi but I doubt he'll beat him in a fight if you take away the sharingan because Kakashi is more skilled. Same thing with Zabuza against Neji or Lee. Kidomaru also only lost because Neji sent chakra through the web. Zabuza can play the same game as Kidomaru with his water style jutsu in mist and not have anything connected to him.

Originally posted by Kento
Zabuza can play the same game as Kidomaru with his water style jutsu in mist and not have anything connected to him.

Oh now your just making stuff up.

How will Zabusa:

1.] Attack in Range whereas it is clear he is a close combat fighter.
2.] Create webbings embedded with chakra to stop his opponent.
3.] Summon hundreds of spiders to fight for him.
4.] Uncover Neji's Blindspot.
4.] Attack Neji's blindspot with an over 100% accuracy.
5.] Cover himself up with webbing that will help protect him from the gentle fist and points of divinity.

And if the off-chance he can really do those:
Why the hell did he not use it against Kakashi instead he let Kakashi hand his ass over to him. When it's already a handicapped fight in favor of Zabusa.

If Zabusa was even as fast as a Lee without the weights he could have easily pawned the old guy and Sakura in a Heartbeat. Those are two people Kakashi cannot protect simultaneously.

If he can't even attack with those kinds of openings. How the hell will he connect with Neji who has a 360 degrees vision with a 50m radius. Chakra Emitting field that will sense an attack even if he cannot see it. Or Against Kaiten.

Or better yet how will he protect himself from Neji's attack who we could clearly say that can cope up with a Lee without weights. Attacks that will stop Chakra flow. And deadly blows that can even go trough an armor embedded with chakra.

He does'nt even have his element of suprise which is probably the only reason that made Kakashi struggle in their fight.

Originally posted by dant3g0
Yes but that was a before the Time-Skip Neji. The current Neji

Oh now your just making stuff up.

How will Zabusa:

1.] Attack in Range whereas it is clear he is a close combat fighter.
2.] Create webbings embedded with chakra to stop his opponent.
3.] Summon hundreds of spiders to fight for him.
4.] Uncover Neji's Blindspot.
4.] Attack Neji's blindspot with an over 100% accuracy.
5.] Cover himself up with webbing that will help protect him from the gentle fist and points of divinity.

And if the off-chance he can really do those:
Why the hell did he not use it against Kakashi instead he let Kakashi hand his ass over to him. When it's already a handicapped fight in favor of Zabusa.

If Zabusa was even as fast as a Lee without the weights he could have easily pawned the old guy and Sakura in a Heartbeat. Those are two people Kakashi cannot protect simultaneously.

If he can't even attack with those kinds of openings. How the hell will he connect with Neji who has a 360 degrees vision woth a 50m radius. Chakra Emitting field that will sense an attack even if he cannot see it. Or Against Kaiten.

Or better yet how will he protect himself from Neji's attack who we could clearly say that can cope up with a Lee without weights. Attacks that will stop Chakra flow. And deadly blows that can even go trough an armor embedded with chakra.

He does'nt even have his element of suprise which is probably the only reason that made Kakashi struggle in their fight. Current Neji really has no feat to say how much stronger he is. Except he's one of the only genin to become a Jonin.

I meant attacking from a distance where Neji can't see him but instead of being hidden in trees and far away he could just hide in a mist he creates and use water style jutsu which are long range attacks.

Zabuza lost to the sharingan. Something Neji doesn't have. Zabuza could have killed the old man the time he got inbetween Sakura, Sasuke, Naruto, and the old man. Instead he just appeared there not using any attack.

As for the Byakugan..for it suppose to see everywhere it's been fooled plenty of times. By Jirobu, Kidomaru, Naruto, and Tobi. Why couldn't Zabuza with his mist fool it? There's nothing to even suggest it wouldn't.

Making the field full of mist would give him the element of surprise for the most part. Mix that with water clones he always uses, and the fact he uses shurikens a lot along with his long sword. Neji isn't going to know where he's coming from. The only hope Neji has is that chakra field but even then he'll know something is there but not what. He'd waste more chakra than anything trying to stay alive. And when he runs out he'll be helpless. And the fact Zabuza uses water clones, and shurikens so much would get him to know about Kaiten. All he has to do it wait for Neji to run out of chakra while staying hidden and using shuriken and weak long range jutsu.

Neji has a better chance against Haku than he does Zabuza. Zabuza can beat either Lee or Neji one quite easily. Besides the fact that Lee is easily predictable and Zabuza being as skilled as he is should be able to read his moves the mist would counter out anything Lee could do. You can't fight what you can't see.

The fact Lee is easily read could also be a very good reason why Neji can beat him and not be shown nearly as fast.

Originally posted by Kento
Zabuza could have killed the old man the time he got inbetween Sakura, Sasuke, Naruto, and the old man. Instead he just appeared there not using any attack.


No he did attack the old man and yet Kakashi still got there quick enough to stab him. You could see his sword being swung at one of the panels.

Originally posted by Kento
Making the field full of mist would give him the element of surprise for the most part. Mix that with water clones he always uses, and the fact he uses shurikens a lot along with his long sword. Neji isn't going to know where he's coming from.


Kidomaru was able to do that because he was in fact a long range fighter. And uses a Bow not a shuriken which is better in power and precision. And I dont believe Zabusa can attack in long range the same way Kidomaru did.

Besides Zabusa will not do that kind of tactic because it is not in his repertoire. If it was he would have done it against Kakashi.

The attack he will most likely do is what he did against Kakashi on their first encounter. Using a clone to attack first to measure the enemy. Then when Neji attack the clone he will attack Neji from behind. But Neji can see behind him so he can easily counter attack Zabusa. And it will come down to a fight in Taijutsu which will then Neji has the upperhand. A slash a kick for Zabusa but one hit from the Gentle fist and his done.

If he will then use the same tactic against Kakashi and use the water prison in which he undeniably labeled inescapable. Neji will just wait till he drops his guard down then break the prison and attack him in surprise.

Originally posted by dant3g0
No he did attack the old man and yet Kakashi still got there quick enough to stab him. You could see his sword being swung at one of the panels.



Kidomaru was able to do that because he was in fact a long range fighter. And uses a Bow not a shuriken which is better in power and precision. And I dont believe Zabusa can attack in long range the same way Kidomaru did.

Besides Zabusa will not do that kind of tactic because it is not in his repertoire. If it was he would have done it against Kakashi.

The attack he will most likely do is what he did against Kakashi on their first encounter. Using a clone to attack first to measure the enemy. Then when Neji attack the clone he will attack Neji from behind. But Neji can see behind him so he can easily counter attack Zabusa. And it will come down to a fight in Taijutsu which will then Neji has the upperhand. A slash a kick for Zabusa but one hit from the Gentle fist and his done.

If he will then use the same tactic against Kakashi and use the water prison in which he undeniably labeled inescapable. Neji will just wait till he drops his guard down then break the prison and attack him in surprise. No he didn't. He's right there behind Team 7, and in front of the old man. He puts his hand up and Kakashi attacks him. He doesn't swing. I'm talking about the water clone he did it with also.

Zabuza is going to get up close and personal when he sees Kaiten why? Any attack that Zabuza would use to test him Neji would deflect with Kaiten against so he'd see it. Also Zabuza doesn't need to be as far as Kidomaru did because the mist will block him. Along with multiple water clones. There is also a difference in Neji and Kakashi. He'd see Neji's Kaiten while Kakashi has nothing like that to knock him back or block attacks. Neji also wouldn't have the upperhand in h2h. Zabuza is more skilled and more ruthless. Plus a longer reach and a large sword. Neji would have to actually hit him for gentle fist to work.

It's weird that my one post destroyed most of the pro-Neji/Lee arguments but no one acknowledges it...

It's because no one wants to look through all those scans. haermm

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
It's because no one wants to look through all those scans. haermm Cause manga proofz>>>Anime proofz! haermm

Well of course, for debates.

ANyone ca sit on there fatass and watch a video, it takes skills to read through multipel scans. haermm

Originally posted by Kento
No he didn't. He's right there behind Team 7, and in front of the old man. He puts his hand up and Kakashi attacks him. He doesn't swing. I'm talking about the water clone he did it with also.

Zabuza is going to get up close and personal when he sees Kaiten why? Any attack that Zabuza would use to test him Neji would deflect with Kaiten against so he'd see it. Also Zabuza doesn't need to be as far as Kidomaru did because the mist will block him. Along with multiple water clones. There is also a difference in Neji and Kakashi. He'd see Neji's Kaiten while Kakashi has nothing like that to knock him back or block attacks. Neji also wouldn't have the upperhand in h2h. Zabuza is more skilled and more ruthless. Plus a longer reach and a large sword. Neji would have to actually hit him for gentle fist to work.


first of all neji can see the chakra inside the mist as he did in the raiga fillers on that kid with the eyes was making illusions he was the only 1 to really fool the byakugan and neji doesnt have 2 be tht close cuz 64 is inescapable. zabuza's sword is not that great because it has been blosk with a fist on 2 occcasions kakashi and tobi.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Well of course, for debates.

ANyone ca sit on there fatass and watch a video, it takes skills to read through multipel scans. haermm Fatass. haermm

Originally posted by Kento
No he didn't. He's right there behind Team 7, and in front of the old man. He puts his hand up and Kakashi attacks him. He doesn't swing. I'm talking about the water clone he did it with also.

His clearly said "It's Over" because he was cocky enough to think his hit would connect and on the second panel from the left you can see his sword being swung.

Oh now your just making stuff up.

How will Zabusa:

1.] Attack in Range whereas it is clear he is a close combat fighter.
2.] Create webbings embedded with chakra to stop his opponent.
3.] Summon hundreds of spiders to fight for him.
4.] Uncover Neji's Blindspot.
4.] Attack Neji's blindspot with an over 100% accuracy.
5.] Cover himself up with webbing that will help protect him from the gentle fist and points of divinity.

And if the off-chance he can really do those:
Why the hell did he not use it against Kakashi instead he let Kakashi hand his ass over to him. When it's already a handicapped fight in favor of Zabusa.

If Zabusa was even as fast as a Lee without the weights he could have easily pawned the old guy and Sakura in a Heartbeat. Those are two people Kakashi cannot protect simultaneously.

If he can't even attack with those kinds of openings. How the hell will he connect with Neji who has a 360 degrees vision with a 50m radius. Chakra Emitting field that will sense an attack even if he cannot see it. Or Against Kaiten.

Or better yet how will he protect himself from Neji's attack who we could clearly say that can cope up with a Lee without weights. Attacks that will stop Chakra flow. And deadly blows that can even go trough an armor embedded with chakra.

He does'nt even have his element of suprise which is probably the only reason that made Kakashi struggle in their fight


Oh boy I keep saying this is the last post but I keep coming back. Did you think Zabuza became a Jonin and a ANBU member just because he can hide in mist? He only used that because Kakashi has Sharingan.Again let me repeat IF ZABUZA WOULD OF KILLED KAKASHI,SASUKE AND NARUTO THE SHOW WOULD BE OVER...THERE WAS NO WAY ZABUZA OR HAKU WAS GOING TO WIN THAT FIGHT.ZABUZA COULD OF EASILY MADE MORE WATER OR SHADOW CLONES WHEN HE HAD KAKASHI TRAPPED IN THE WATER PRISON..HE COULD OF HAD SOME HELP HIM KILL KAKASHI AND HAD THE OTHERS KEEP SAKURA,SASUKE AND NARUTO FROM INTERFERRING BUT AGAIN IF THIS WOULD OF HAPPENED THE SHOW WOULD OF BEEN OVER RIGHT THERE.

IF ROCK LEE WAS SO SKILLED THEN WHY IS HE STILL A CHUNNIN?EVEN AFTER THE 3 YEAR TIME SKIP HE IS STILL A CHUNNIN.APPARENTLY HE ISNT REALLY THAT SKILLED IS HE? NEJI IS A JONIN BUT A LOW LEVEL ONE ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE NARUTO. HIS OFFICIAL STATS STILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO ZABUZA THE FIRST REAL VILLIAN IN THE SHOW.

ZABUZA WAS IN ANBU JUST LIKE KAKASHI WHICH MEANS THEY BOTH KNOW HOW TO KILL OR PUT TO SLEEP JUST BY USING ONE NEEDLE JUST LIKE HAKU.HOW DID YOU THINK HAKU LEARNED?HE WAS NEVER IN ANBU. DID KAKASHI USE FIRE BALL JUTSU AGAINST ZABUZA? BUT IF YOU WATCHED THE SHOW YOU WOULD KNOW MOST JONIN IN THE HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. KAKASHI KNOWS OVER 1000 JUTSU BUT HOW MANY DID HE USE AGAINST ZABUZA? KAKASHI IS THE MOST SKILLED JONIN IN THE HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE SO WHY TRY TO COMPARE ROCK LEE A MORON WHO CAN'T USE NINJUTSU OR GENJUTSU AT ALL WITH KAKASHI? HOW MANY DIFFERENT JUTSU HAVE YOU SEEN NEJI USE? IF GENTLE FIST WAS SO DEADLY THEN WHY ISNT NEJI'S UNCLE CONSIDERED THE MOST SKILLED NINJA IN THE LEAF VILLAGE WHEN HIS OFFICAL NUMBERS ARE FAR BETTER THAN NEJI.

THE ONLY PERSON YOU SEEN ZABUZA FIGHT AGAINST WAS KAKASHI A ELITE LEVEL JONIN. ROCK LEE WAS ALMOST KILLED BY GAARA A CHUNNIN AT THE POINT WITH NO SPEED.POWER.TAIJUTSU.OR GENJUTSU. THIS IS KIND OF FUNNY BECAUSE EVEN THE CHUNNIN AND GENNIN ON THE SHOW ADMIT THEY ARE NO MATCH FOR A JONIN BUT SOME HOW YOU PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.

Originally posted by yungz22
first of all neji can see the chakra inside the mist as he did in the raiga fillers on that kid with the eyes was making illusions he was the only 1 to really fool the byakugan and neji doesnt have 2 be tht close cuz 64 is inescapable. zabuza's sword is not that great because it has been blosk with a fist on 2 occcasions kakashi and tobi. Because fillers count...compared to how many times in canon it's been easily fooled in forests when the person was extremely close to them and he nor Hinata was able to see somebody when actually looking for them. Originally posted by dant3g0
His clearly said "It's Over" because he was cocky enough to think his hit would connect and on the second panel from the left you can see his sword being swung. Okay I was wrong he did swing..But then again it was a water clone and they are weaker. And he took the time to talk and move his hand before beginning to even swing that huge sword of his. And Zabuza just before that also said he would have to beat Kakashi before he could kill the old man. I highly doubt he thought it was going to be that easy. Which is probably why it was a water clone.

Originally posted by Kento
Because fillers count...compared to how many times in canon it's been easily fooled in forests when the person was extremely close to them and he nor Hinata was able to see somebody when actually looking for them. Okay I was wrong he did swing..But then again it was a water clone and they are weaker. And he took the time to talk and move his hand before beginning to even swing that huge sword of his. And Zabuza just before that also said he would have to beat Kakashi before he could kill the old man. I highly doubt he thought it was going to be that easy. Which is probably why it was a water clone.


name 1 time it was actually fooled in canon other than kidumaro who didnt even didnt fool it he just figured out his weakness.
and fail to take account two the 2 times zabuza's sword was blocked by just a mere hand kakashi and tobi so im pretty sure lee could do the same and if notlee wouldnt even be hit by that sword anyway because he is too fast for that

Originally posted by yungz22
name 1 time it was actually fooled in canon other than kidumaro who didnt even didnt fool it he just figured out his weakness.
and fail to take account two the 2 times zabuza's sword was blocked by just a mere hand kakashi and tobi so im pretty sure lee could do the same and if notlee wouldnt even be hit by that sword anyway because he is too fast for that Kakashi never blocked Zabuza's sword with one hand. he has blocked it with Kunai, that is it. He blocked that big Shurikan with his hand if that is what you meant. Tobi is probably the single strongest character in Naruto, lol.

Originally posted by yungz22
name 1 time it was actually fooled in canon other than kidumaro who didnt even didnt fool it he just figured out his weakness.
and fail to take account two the 2 times zabuza's sword was blocked by just a mere hand kakashi and tobi so im pretty sure lee could do the same and if notlee wouldnt even be hit by that sword anyway because he is too fast for that Jirobu, Naruto (though he wasn't being looked for), and Tobi. Neji couldn't find Jirobu when he disappeared, and Hinata couldn't find Tobi when he disappeared. Heck Kiba was able to easily find Tobi first and Hinata is suppose to be able to see everywhere. Same with Neji. There really isn't any other times cause the Byakugan users are hardly ever used.

And just because Kakashi can do something doesn't mean Lee can. And Suigetsu isn't Zabuza. Couldn't he barely even lift the sword when he took it from Zabuza's grave?

edit - Lee isn't to fast at all. Lee's fast for a genin not for a Jonin. Zabuza was one of the seven strongest people from the Mist, Kakashi had to use the sharingan to fight him, he's more ruthless, he's a better fighter, and Lee's easily read. How will Lee do anything except die?

Originally posted by big juggy man


He only used that because Kakashi has Sharingan.Again let me repeat IF ZABUZA WOULD OF KILLED KAKASHI,SASUKE AND NARUTO THE SHOW WOULD BE OVER...THERE WAS NO WAY ZABUZA OR HAKU WAS GOING TO WIN THAT FIGHT.ZABUZA COULD OF EASILY MADE MORE WATER OR SHADOW CLONES WHEN HE HAD KAKASHI TRAPPED IN THE WATER PRISON..HE COULD OF HAD SOME HELP HIM KILL KAKASHI AND HAD THE OTHERS KEEP SAKURA,SASUKE AND NARUTO FROM INTERFERRING BUT AGAIN IF THIS WOULD OF HAPPENED THE SHOW WOULD OF BEEN OVER RIGHT THERE.



Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument.


Originally posted by big juggy man

IF ROCK LEE WAS SO SKILLED THEN WHY IS HE STILL A CHUNNIN?EVEN AFTER THE 3 YEAR TIME SKIP HE IS STILL A CHUNNIN.APPARENTLY HE ISNT REALLY THAT SKILLED IS HE? NEJI IS A JONIN BUT A LOW LEVEL ONE ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE NARUTO. HIS OFFICIAL STATS STILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO ZABUZA THE FIRST REAL VILLIAN IN THE SHOW.


It's because to become a Jounin you have to had mastered at least two different elemental Ninjutsu. Lee knows zilch about Ninjutsu that is why he is a Chuunin and forever will be unless the writer will prove another point otherwise.

Originally posted by big juggy man

THE ONLY PERSON YOU SEEN ZABUZA FIGHT AGAINST WAS KAKASHI A ELITE LEVEL JONIN. ROCK LEE WAS ALMOST KILLED BY GAARA A CHUNNIN AT THE POINT WITH NO SPEED.POWER.TAIJUTSU.OR GENJUTSU. THIS IS KIND OF FUNNY BECAUSE EVEN THE CHUNNIN AND GENNIN ON THE SHOW ADMIT THEY ARE NO MATCH FOR A JONIN BUT SOME HOW YOU PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.


Yes Ninja Title's are something but it will not be a definite reason for a win.

Hidan an S-Rank was defeated by a Chuunin.
Kazuku also an S-Rank was defeated by a Genin.
Deidara an S-Rank defeated a Kazekage.
Deidara was defeated by a Genin Missing-Nin.

PS: Check your Keyboard I think your Caps Lock broken...

Originally posted by dant3g0
Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument.. Well there is some point in what he's saying. Sasuke would have been dead if he hadn't been a main character. Same goes for Naruto but Haku wasn't going all out and was to kind to actually kill them. Then it would have been Haku and Zabuza vs Kakashi and Kakashi had his hands full with just Zabuza up until the mist vanished and Zabuza was once against owned by the sharingan.

Yes Ninja Title's are something but it will not be a definite reason for a win.

Hidan an S-Rank was defeated by a Chuunin.
Kazuku also an S-Rank was defeated by a Genin.
Deidara an S-Rank defeated a Kazekage.
Deidara was defeated by a Genin Missing-Nin.

PS: Check your Keyboard I think your Caps Lock broken...

S-Ranked could equal Kage ranked

Sasuke was above Gennin when he defeated Deidara not to mention he had mastered the Sharingan.

Shikamaru is a genius which is why he defeated Hidan

Neji doesn't have the sharingan he has a lesser kekkai genkai.

Rock Lee is a idiot.



Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument.

I would be emarassed if i was a moron like you who couldnt grasp logic. The name of the show is Naruto so how in the hell is he goin to die in his first real battle? My mom never watched Naruto but i am sure she could grasp that. The writers had Sakura say Haku was more powerful than Kakashi and Kakashi said himself Haku was more skilled than he was .I think the writers on the show would know more about their characters than some jack azz in a forum. The people who write the official ninja stats have Haku,Zabuza,Kakashi and Rock Lee speed at 8 out of 10..are you a writer on Naruto? Zabuza's taijutsu is a 9 out of 10 Kakashi is a 8 out of 10 and Rock Lee is either a 7 or 8 out of 10 and Neji was even lower during the time Zabuza was alive. I believe a 9 is a bigger number than a 8 or a 7 and if you can't realize than then again I feel sorry for you.

This isn't a american comics forum but let me make a quick point. Is Spiderman dead?Nope he is not but he has fought people like Juggernaut a guy who is just as strong as the Hulk or Thor yet he always manages to avoid being killed. Why is that? Because the writers don't want to kill of their most popular character especially in their on books. Are you telling me Spiderman is more powerful than Juggernaut? Are you telling me Batman is more powerful than let us say Bizzaro Superman? Hell no the writers can write how they feel...they can say one character is weak and then have then beat a character they say is strong. But this is a forum where we are speculating on battles that never happened or happened by we would like to see again.

You childish insults dont bother me but if all i could do is try to insult somebody who is superior to you then I feel sorry for you. How about you try making points instead of just saying one character is cool and that is the reason they would win...how about you try that and when you can make some points or state some facts then don't post to me.

Well there is some point in what he's saying. Sasuke would have been dead if he hadn't been a main character. Same goes for Naruto but Haku wasn't going all out and was to kind to actually kill them. Then it would have been Haku and Zabuza vs Kakashi and Kakashi had his hands full with just Zabuza up until the mist vanished and Zabuza was once against owned by the sharingan.


Exactly if the show was called Haku then he would of live and Naruto would of died. Kakashi even said during the fight that Naruto and Sasuke were no match for Haku and Haku wasn't even going all out for the kill. After the fight was over Sasuke said he knew from the begging that Haku was trying to avoid killing him.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Yes Ninja Title's are something but it will not be a definite reason for a win.

Hidan an S-Rank was defeated by a Chuunin.
Kazuku also an S-Rank was defeated by a Genin.
Deidara an S-Rank defeated a Kazekage.
Deidara was defeated by a Genin Missing-Nin.

PS: Check your Keyboard I think your Caps Lock broken...

S-Ranked could equal Kage ranked

Sasuke was above Gennin when he defeated Deidara not to mention he had mastered the Sharingan.

Shikamaru is a genius which is why he defeated Hidan

Neji doesn't have the sharingan he has a lesser kekkai genkai.

Rock Lee is a idiot.



Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument.

I would be emarassed if i was a moron like you who couldnt grasp logic. The name of the show is Naruto so how in the hell is he goin to die in his first real battle? My mom never watched Naruto but i am sure she could grasp that. The writers had Sakura say Haku was more powerful than Kakashi and Kakashi said himself Haku was more skilled than he was .I think the writers on the show would know more about their characters than some jack azz in a forum. The people who write the official ninja stats have Haku,Zabuza,Kakashi and Rock Lee speed at 8 out of 10..are you a writer on Naruto? Zabuza's taijutsu is a 9 out of 10 Kakashi is a 8 out of 10 and Rock Lee is either a 7 or 8 out of 10 and Neji was even lower during the time Zabuza was alive. I believe a 9 is a bigger number than a 8 or a 7 and if you can't realize than then again I feel sorry for you.

This isn't a american comics forum but let me make a quick point. Is Spiderman dead?Nope he is not but he has fought people like Juggernaut a guy who is just as strong as the Hulk or Thor yet he always manages to avoid being killed. Why is that? Because the writers don't want to kill of their most popular character especially in their on books. Are you telling me Spiderman is more powerful than Juggernaut? Are you telling me Batman is more powerful than let us say Bizzaro Superman? Hell no the writers can write how they feel...they can say one character is weak and then have then beat a character they say is strong. But this is a forum where we are speculating on battles that never happened or happened by we would like to see again.

You childish insults dont bother me but if all i could do is try to insult somebody who is superior to you then I feel sorry for you. How about you try making points instead of just saying one character is cool and that is the reason they would win...how about you try that and when you can make some points or state some facts then don't post to me.



ok now your talking about marvel and dc characters main characters arent killed your right none of us here feel spiderman is stronger than the juggernaut or hulk because he has been beaten by them several times.

Originally posted by Kento
Jirobu, Naruto (though he wasn't being looked for), and Tobi. Neji couldn't find Jirobu when he disappeared, and Hinata couldn't find Tobi when he disappeared. Heck Kiba was able to easily find Tobi first and Hinata is suppose to be able to see everywhere. Same with Neji. There really isn't any other times cause the Byakugan users are hardly ever used.

And just because Kakashi can do something doesn't mean Lee can. And Suigetsu isn't Zabuza. Couldn't he barely even lift the sword when he took it from Zabuza's grave?

edit - Lee isn't to fast at all. Lee's fast for a genin not for a Jonin. Zabuza was one of the seven strongest people from the Mist, Kakashi had to use the sharingan to fight him, he's more ruthless, he's a better fighter, and Lee's easily read. How will Lee do anything except die?


for jirobu neji was focusing in front of him no behind him, and hinata isnt as good as neji is with the byakugan


only person who said lee was easily read was kimmimaro and he was a master in taijutsu and even with his predictable fighting style he still put up way longer zabuza would if he were to fight kimmimaro
and in all the ninja fights taijutsu is usually used first and lee would kill zabuza in that weights off or drunken

Originally posted by yungz22
for jirobu neji was focusing in front of him no behind him, and hinata isnt as good as neji is with the byakugan


only person who said lee was easily read was kimmimaro and he was a master in taijutsu and even with his predictable fighting style he still put up way longer zabuza would if he were to fight kimmimaro
and in all the ninja fights taijutsu is usually used first and lee would kill zabuza in that weights off or drunken Neji can see in every direction at once...why would he only be focusing in front of him? Specially when a guy has disappeared. And wasn't it dust that allowed Jirobu to disappear while Neji was using Byakugan anyway? And Hinata can't see as far as Neji..but Tobi wasn't exactly far. And she can still see in every direction at once.

Lee isn't exactly the greatest in taijutsu. And Zabuza isn't exactly a idiot in taijutsu. In fact he's a master in Taijutsu. He's also got more experience than Kimimaro and Lee. And what makes you think Kimimaro could defeat Zabuza? Zabuza has the ability to hide in the mist. Kimimaro would die before he had a chance to do anything. And Zabuza never started off a fight with taijutsu. When he first started fighting Kakashi he used mist, on the bridge he used mist. What is Lee going to do when he can't see anything but the person fighting him can find him easily? Zabuza's biggest thing is his mix of stealth killing and using mist so nobody can see him. Which is a big advantage when nobody in this fight is as skilled as Kakashi or even as skilled as Zabuza. Lee without weights isn't going to be beating somebody stronger, faster, and more skilled who also would have him fighting blinded. Same with drunk Lee. Lee has no way to get around the mist that Zabuza has always shown to use as the fight starts. And Lee nor Neji are going to be blitzing Zabuza.

Originally posted by Kento
Neji can see in every direction at once...why would he only be focusing in front of him? Specially when a guy has disappeared. And wasn't it dust that allowed Jirobu to disappear while Neji was using Byakugan anyway? And Hinata can't see as far as Neji..but Tobi wasn't exactly far. And she can still see in every direction at once.

Lee isn't exactly the greatest in taijutsu. And Zabuza isn't exactly a idiot in taijutsu. In fact he's a master in Taijutsu. He's also got more experience than Kimimaro and Le