Silver Surfer/Beta Ray Bill/ Quasar vs. Hal Jordan/Lightray/Firestorm

darthgoober

rico777

Isn't Lightray much weaker than Hal and Firestorm? this means a 2v3 match... doesn't look so good for team 2

UniOmni

Beta Ray Bill would maim Lightray, and rape Firestorm.

They wanna take the fight to the sun?

He sleeps in suns.

The enormous pressure/heat contained within don't phase him.

At all.

Lightray is the weakest link by far here, and is gonna get put down, hard.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Then you're basing it solely off ABC logic then? Because Surfer did a lot better against Korvac than the Avengers and Guardian's of the Galaxy combined, and he's taken down a Watcher and the Unilord(twice)....

Needless to say, high end feats aren't the only that are taken into consideration. So what ELSE has he done to suggest that he's out of Surfer's or Hal's league?
Light ray isn't always a warrior. As such, he was always powerful but never really displayed it much becuz of his nature. His power was always vast. He can create heat multiple times the sun with ease. Create suns and such, move far faster than light, has molecular altering abilities, super strength, high invulnerability. This is why I said he was in his insane light ray mode. It was a way to show how powerful he truly is without damaging the goodness of the character.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by UniOmni
Beta Ray Bill would maim Lightray, and rape Firestorm.

They wanna take the fight to the sun?

He sleeps in suns.

The enormous pressure/heat contained within don't phase him.

At all.

Lightray is the weakest link by far here, and is gonna get put down, hard.
You obviously don't know light ray.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Light ray isn't always a warrior. As such, he was always powerful but never really displayed it much becuz of his nature. His power was always vast. He can create heat multiple times the sun with ease. Create suns and such, move far faster than light, has molecular altering abilities, super strength, high invulnerability. This is why I said he was in his insane light ray mode. It was a way to show how powerful he truly is without damaging the goodness of the character.
Again, NONE of the things you mentioned are beyond the abilities of guys like Surfer and Hal. Seriously...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Create suns and such
Surfer's created a black hole and Hal's...alright I'm not that big of a GL follower, but I'm pretty sure he has something along those lines.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
, move far faster than light,
Standard for heralds and GL's worth mentioning
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
has molecular altering abilities,
Again standard...
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
super strength,
Standard for Surfer(and can be increased through amping), and completely within Hal's power to simulate.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
high invulnerability.
Still standard...

See the things you listed MIGHT qualify him as a top tier herald level character depending on the circumstances and consistency of the feats, but they damn sure don't put him BEYOND high end herald level characters.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, NONE of the things you mentioned are beyond the abilities of guys like Surfer and Hal. Seriously...

Surfer's created a black hole and Hal's...alright I'm not that big of a GL follower, but I'm pretty sure he has something along those lines.

Standard for heralds and GL's worth mentioning

Again standard...

Standard for Surfer(and can be increased through amping), and completely within Hal's power to simulate.

Still standard...

See the things you listed MIGHT qualify him as a top tier herald level character depending on the circumstances and consistency of the feats, but they damn sure don't put him BEYOND high end herald level characters.
Him being Nearly as powerful as takion sure does. And it's on panel from takion's own mouth. That puts him on equal footing in my book with anyone here. He won't be the weak link. Also when he wasn't in his insane mode, he beat mongul with ease, created a sun after being exhausted trying to stop the death avatar br, and knocked highfather off of his feat. I'd say he is at least a match for anyone on the field. Which is why he's in the match in the first place.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Him being Nearly as powerful as takion sure does. And it's on panel from takion's own mouth. That puts him on equal footing in my book with anyone here. He won't be the weak link. Also when he wasn't in his insane mode, he beat mongul with ease, created a sun after being exhausted trying to stop the death avatar br, and knocked highfather off of his feat. I'd say he is at least a match for anyone on the field. Which is why he's in the match in the first place.
So now you're basing your assessment off a statement?

What about Supes statement that Thor was the toughest opponent he'd ever fought(and that was AFTER Supes fought DD and DS)? Or Genis's(the guy who recreated the universe) statement that Surfer was more powerful than he? Or all the people that run around comics saying that Juggs is "unstoppable", Hulk is "the strongest one there is", and that Ironman is "invincible"?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
So now you're basing your assessment off a statement?

What about Supes statement that Thor was the toughest opponent he'd ever fought(and that was AFTER Supes fought DD and DS)? Or Genis's(the guy who recreated the universe) statement that Surfer was more powerful than he? Or all the people that run around comics saying that Juggs is "unstoppable", Hulk is "the strongest one there is", and that Ironman is "invincible"?

No. I'm basing it off of a statement while in the midst of a battle. Statement plus feats. It's not like you can look at light ray and go, hmm, most beings can do what he can do. Beating mongul EASILY is no small feat. Creating a sun after being nearly depowered and a giant one at that, is no small feat. easily heating up times a few suns isn't something a lot of beings do. And His strength and durability were shown when he fought takion. And yes, I agree with Superman, Thor should be the tuffest opponent he's ever beaten. the fight should have lasted an entire series if you ask me.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No. I'm basing it off of a statement while in the midst of a battle. Statement plus feats. It's not like you can look at light ray and go, hmm, most beings can do what he can do. Beating mongul EASILY is no small feat. Creating a sun after being nearly depowered and a giant one at that, is no small feat. easily heating up times a few suns isn't something a lot of beings do. And His strength and durability were shown when he fought takion. And yes, I agree with Superman, Thor should be the tuffest opponent he's ever beaten. the fight should have lasted an entire series if you ask me.
So if you agree with Supes's statement, then you accept Thor being tougher than DS or HP DD?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
So if you agree with Supes's statement, then you accept Thor being tougher than DS or HP DD?

Superman didn't beat Doomsday. He died at his hands. And He didn't beat Bp DD either.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Superman didn't beat Doomsday. He died at his hands. And He didn't beat Bp DD either.
Yes Supes DID beat DD. The first fight Supes won due to his being alive/conscious while DD wasn't, and against Hunter/Prey he won via BFR. And you never answered for DS...

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes Supes DID beat DD. The first fight Supes won due to his being alive/conscious while DD wasn't, and against Hunter/Prey he won via BFR. And you never answered for DS...
I say he didn't beat DD becuz he died. I call that author's discretion becuz it was the death of superman. So of course he would die last. And he didn't BEAT DD/HP. He had help from Waverider. As for DS. Well those were avatars. As I'm sure will be explained in DS unleashed. a massive retcon is coming if you didn't know. smile

Galan007

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, NONE of the things you mentioned are beyond the abilities of guys like Surfer and Hal. Seriously...

Surfer's created a black hole and Hal's...alright I'm not that big of a GL follower, but I'm pretty sure he has something along those lines.

Standard for heralds and GL's worth mentioning

Again standard...

Standard for Surfer(and can be increased through amping), and completely within Hal's power to simulate.

Still standard...

See the things you listed MIGHT qualify him as a top tier herald level character depending on the circumstances and consistency of the feats, but they damn sure don't put him BEYOND high end herald level characters. If the things nvr listed are what it takes to be a high-end Herald, then why is Firestorm listed as low-Herald in that "ranking" thread?

He's done all that, and more. ermm

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I say he didn't beat DD becuz he died. I call that author's discretion becuz it was the death of superman. So of course he would die last. And he didn't BEAT DD/HP. He had help from Waverider. As for DS. Well those were avatars. As I'm sure will be explained in DS unleashed. a massive retcon is coming if you didn't know. smile

Waverider didn't beat DD Supes did. All Waverider contributed to DD's defeat was his timetravel device, which Supes reprogrammed(still a win for Supes). And however you want to try to justify it, Supes was the last one conscious in the DOS saga, which means that he won there also.

As for DS, while SOME of his losses were rectoned to be avatars there are still several which are unaccounted for which means that Supes still has wins over him as well.

So if the standard for Takion's statement being taken at face value holds true for other characters as well, then it must mean that Thor is tougher than ALL the versions of DD that Supes beat at the time of the Avengers/JLA crossover, and DS and his avatars as well.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Galan007
If that's what it takes to be a high-end Herald, then why is Firestorm listed as low-Herald in that "ranking" thread?

He's done all that, and more.

becuz that ranking thread is shit. that is why. it's about popularity. Firestorm beats most herald lvl beings classic or current FS at that.

darthgoober

Originally posted by Galan007
If the things nvr listed are what it takes to be a high-end Herald, then why is Firestorm listed as low-Herald in that "ranking" thread?

He's done all that, and more. ermm
Hey don't look at me, there are plenty of things that I see as being wrong with the tier list. But since the things nvr listed are still indications of BEING a high level herald character(rather than being far beyond it), nvr doesn't really have a case for his initial assessment of Lightray's power. And if those are his high end feats(rather than his typical displays of power), then there's not even much of a case for high tier herald either....

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Waverider didn't beat DD Supes did. All Waverider contributed to DD's defeat was his timetravel device, which Supes reprogrammed(still a win for Supes). And however you want to try to justify it, Supes was the last one conscious in the DOS saga, which means that he won there also.

As for DS, while SOME of his losses were rectoned to be avatars there are still several which are unaccounted for which means that Supes still has wins over him as well.

So if the standard for Takion's statement being taken at face value holds true for other characters as well, then it must mean that Thor is tougher than ALL the versions of DD that Supes beat at the time of the Avengers/JLA crossover, and DS and his avatars as well.

DS avatars have always been able to be beaten by someone powerful enough. But it comes str8 from DS own mouth that he cannot be beaten on the physical plane. As it isn't just a statement from takion's mouth. It's the ass kicking that light ray was handing out as well. Not many can dish out enough power to make Takion flinch, let alone make a comment about it. Light ray with his speed and physical prowess showed that he could dish it out as good as any top tier. as for your argument about superman and DS and all that, that is just a detour from the real argument, which is that, Lightray can give ANY one in this thread a tuff fight. And I could argue him on his few beats beating any of them at least 4 out of ten.

UniOmni

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You obviously don't know light ray.

I know Lightray.

I also know that his showing vs Takion wasn't the norm.

He slammed Takion through a star....

Which is high end, but doesn't match the stuff the rest of the bruisers have brought several times.

You're trying to pass Lightray off as big stuff, but he's the Jimmy to Orions Superman.

Or maybe the Spoiler to Orions Batman?

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DS avatars have always been able to be beaten by someone powerful enough. But it comes str8 from DS own mouth that he cannot be beaten on the physical plane.
And it comes strait from Juggs mouth that he's unstoppable, and Hulk's mouth that he's the strongest one there is, and Doom's mouth that he's the most powerful mortal of all(including Molecule Man), and Wolverine's mouth that he's the best at what he does, so what's your point?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As it isn't just a statement from takion's mouth. It's the ass kicking that light ray was handing out as well. Not many can dish out enough power to make Takion flinch, let alone make a comment about it.
Thor's high end feats are damaging the likes of Galactus and the Celestials, so they support Supes statement that Thor's tougher than DD or DS too, and he DID go toe to toe with Supes(who has wins over both DD and DS)...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Light ray with his speed and physical prowess showed that he could dish it out as good as any top tier.
I never said otherwise. All I did was ask what feats he had to his credit that support your acting like he was far beyond anyone else involved in power.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
as for your argument about superman and DS and all that, that is just a detour from the real argument, which is that, Lightray can give ANY one in this thread a tuff fight. And I could argue him on his few beats beating any of them at least 4 out of ten.
4 out of 10 isn't what you initially said though is it? You said that he was "considerably greater than any on the field", which means that he should take AT LEAST 8/10 over anyone participating.

Galan007

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey don't look at me, there are plenty of things that I see as being wrong with the tier list. But since the things nvr listed are still indications of BEING a high level herald character(rather than being far beyond it), nvr doesn't really have a case for his initial assessment of Lightray's power. And if those are his high end feats(rather than his typical displays of power), then there's not even much of a case for high tier herald either.... Yeah, I'm not really debating Lightray...

Just irks me that FS is so low on the list. sad

darthgoober

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I'm not really debating Lightray...

Just irks me that FS is so low on the list. sad

Well go raise Hell and get him bumped up. If you post a couple of his major feats, I'm sure he get bumped up to the appropriate level...

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by UniOmni
I know Lightray.

I also know that his showing vs Takion wasn't the norm.

He slammed Takion through a star....

Which is high end, but doesn't match the stuff the rest of the bruisers have brought several times.

You're trying to pass Lightray off as big stuff, but he's the Jimmy to Orions Superman.

Or maybe the Spoiler to Orions Batman?

The Norm? the Norm when he's in a his light hearted not really wanting to fight mood is creating stars, beating mongul with EASE, and piercing shields that no one else could. His insane mode is just showing what he would do if he wasn't such a good guy. His lack of feats goes with his character. not becuz he can't, but becuz he's a GOOD guy in the strictest sense of the word.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
And it comes strait from Juggs mouth that he's unstoppable, and Hulk's mouth that he's the strongest one there is, and Doom's mouth that he's the most powerful mortal of all(including Molecule Man), and Wolverine's mouth that he's the best at what he does, so what's your point?

Thor's high end feats are damaging the likes of Galactus and the Celestials, so they support Supes statement that Thor's tougher than DD or DS too, and he DID go toe to toe with Supes(who has wins over both DD and DS)...

I never said otherwise. All I did was ask what feats he had to his credit that support your acting like he was far beyond anyone else involved in power.

4 out of 10 isn't what you initially said though is it? You said that he was "considerably greater than any on the field", which means that he should take AT LEAST 8/10 over anyone participating.

Light is considerably greater. When looking at the fact that he actually knocked highfather over and was able to dish it to takion. No one else on the field could. And it's not like takion was talking about himself. As your examples about Juggs and hulk are thrown out. Takion was talking about SOMEONE else as HE FOUGHT him. nuff said.

UniOmni

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Norm? the Norm when he's in a his light hearted not really wanting to fight mood is creating stars, beating mongul with EASE, and piercing shields that no one else could. His insane mode is just showing what he would do if he wasn't such a good guy. His lack of feats goes with his character. not becuz he can't, but becuz he's a GOOD guy in the strictest sense of the word.

Decent stuff, but again, already aware of it.

Still not up to the par of Surfer OR Bill.

Quasar vs Lightray would probably be a decent match, with the edge to Wendell.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by UniOmni
Decent stuff, but again, already aware of it.

Still not up to the par of Surfer OR Bill.

Quasar vs Lightray would probably be a decent match, with the edge to Wendell.

Quasar would do well if Lightray only had Energy powers at his disposal. But He's got Far greater combat Speed than Quasar. He's also far tuffer and stronger. I actually thought Ligh ray would be a better fight for BRB and Quasar for HAL. As Firestorm was a good match for Silver surfer. But in my opinion, any of the three could pick another opponent and not have an easy time of it.

UniOmni

Beta Ray Bill vs Lightray is basically a less skilled, but more brutal and durable Orion putting a huge foot in his ass.

Quasar vs Hal is Hals fight to lose, since Quantam energy is clearly trumphed by Oan energy.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Light is considerably greater. When looking at the fact that he actually knocked highfather over and was able to dish it to takion. No one else on the field could. And it's not like takion was talking about himself. As your examples about Juggs and hulk are thrown out. Takion was talking about SOMEONE else as HE FOUGHT him. nuff said.
And Surfer beat down a Watcher and beat the Unilord(both of which are easily as impressive as knocking over Highfather or fighting Takion for a bit) so how is Lightray "considerably greater"?

And since SOMEONE ELSE(who had just fought him) was the one to say that Thor was tougher than DS or DD again I ask....

Do we take statements like that at face value?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Surfer beat down a Watcher and beat the Unilord(both of which are easily as impressive as knocking over Highfather or fighting Takion for a bit) so how is Lightray "considerably greater"?

And since SOMEONE ELSE(who had just fought him) was the one to say that Thor was tougher than DS or DD, so again I ask....

Do we take statements like that at face value?

As I said, Thor should be the tuffest opponent superman has ever beaten. I stand behind the fact that Superman has never beaten DD or DS. And it's not just Takion talking about Lightray from his ass. he's got cosmic awareness that is superceded by few, and he's actually taking the lumps to prove it. Also, since when was the watcher as powerful as highfather?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by UniOmni
Beta Ray Bill vs Lightray is basically a less skilled, but more brutal and durable Orion putting a huge foot in his ass.

Quasar vs Hal is Hals fight to lose, since Quantam energy is clearly trumphed by Oan energy.

Beta Ray isn't as fast as Orion. And He also doesn't have the luxury of being constantly being healed during the fight. also, BRB isn't more durable than Orion. NOT.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As I said, Thor should be the tuffest opponent superman has ever beaten. I stand behind the fact that Superman has never beaten DD or DS.
Except we know for a fact that Supes DID beat both of them(when one person is conscious and the other's not, it equals a win for the conscious character), which means that Thor is tougher than both.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And it's not just Takion talking about Lightray from his ass. he's got cosmic awareness that is superceded by few, and he's actually taking the lumps to prove it. Also, since when was the watcher as powerful as highfather?
Well according to Galactus(since you're accepting statements as evidence) the Watcher(s) are damn near as powerful as Big G himself. Other than that, one of the Watchers(Aaron) also has a win against Molecule Man...

Galan007

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well go raise Hell and get him bumped up. If you post a couple of his major feats, I'm sure he get bumped up to the appropriate level... Nah,

I'd rather not look like more of a FS fanboy. laughing out loud

Galan007

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
becuz that ranking thread is shit. that is why. it's about popularity. That I can agree with.

UniOmni

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Beta Ray isn't as fast as Orion. And He also doesn't have the luxury of being constantly being healed during the fight. also, BRB isn't more durable than Orion. NOT.

Beta Ray Bill likely is a shade more durable than Orion.

He sleeps in suns, and takes planet busting and shakes it off.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by UniOmni
Beta Ray Bill likely is a shade more durable than Orion.

He sleeps in suns, and takes planet busting and shakes it off.

check how Orion walks thru the nuclear reactors of a planet. Each some rediculous mega tons per second. How he fights DS for Weaks on end without ceasing. I'd say BRB is NOT a shade more durable.

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
check how Orion walks thru the nuclear reactors of a planet. Each some rediculous mega tons per second. How he fights DS for Weaks on end without ceasing. I'd say BRB is NOT a shade more durable. dont forget orion breaks out of titanium boxes.

ps hows galans list of cosmic beings coming there nver?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by quanchi112
dont forget orion breaks out of titanium boxes.

ps hows galans list of cosmic beings coming there nver?

Has everyone on the forum stopped calling you idiot and retard yet? i sure hope so. roll eyes (sarcastic)

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Has everyone on the forum stopped calling you idiot and retard yet? i sure hope so. roll eyes (sarcastic)

i was bringing up one of his impressive feats.

ps should i wait to bring up the loss to the hand gesture.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by quanchi112
i was bringing up one of his impressive feats.

ps should i wait to bring up the loss to the hand gesture.

Losing to hand gesture from a being who creates MULTIPLE universes and reaches into the firestorm matrix isn't a low feat. You forget that Firestorm was pwned with the same wave. And he's potentially the most powerful man on earth. Nice try. FAIL. now go to bed with no milk and cookies.

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Losing to hand gesture from a being who creates MULTIPLE universes and reaches into the firestorm matrix isn't a low feat. You forget that Firestorm was pwned with the same wave. And he's potentially the most powerful man on earth. Nice try. FAIL. now go to bed with no milk and cookies. orion has never beaten darkseid even when he wsnt using his reality altering powers. orion has been a failure since day one.

Roldz

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Neither Hal nor Surfer would do well against Takion. Takion Completely owned Kyle, Flash, and Captain atom without trying. Lightray did well. Silver surfer would get owned by those three. Takion >>>Hal,Captain atom,flash. And yet Light ray actually made Takion fight for it.
They got owned solely because of how there power is derived from Takions main power source.. They're powers had no effect on him and the last time a check PC/Quantum band belongs not to the source..

Capt. Atom directly absorbs the energy Takion wielded draining him (but couldn't contain it).. Quasar should be quite capable of doing similar feat without the negative feedback via chanelling it to quantum zone.. Just realised Takions not in this match up..

As for Lightrays encounter w/ takion not the norm, Takion shouldn't have any diff. going up against anyone from Genesis cept the likes of Highfather/DS/Metron...

Close match but im giving it to Marvel team 6/10.. What UniOmni said Lightray is the weaklink.. Just my 2 cents..

Phenomenol

Quasar is the strongest out of everyone here so his team takes this.

Roldz

Nah this is quite even match.. What Quasars energy feat at some point in the other chars. own series has done something similar..

Phenomenol

Quasar is hella powerful, he would beat everyone on that list.

Roldz

Ahm, How so?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Roldz
They got owned solely because of how there power is derived from Takions main power source.. They're powers had no effect on him and the last time a check PC/Quantum band belongs not to the source..

Capt. Atom directly absorbs the energy Takion wielded draining him (but couldn't contain it).. Quasar should be quite capable of doing similar feat without the negative feedback via chanelling it to quantum zone.. Just realised Takions not in this match up..

As for Lightrays encounter w/ takion not the norm, Takion shouldn't have any diff. going up against anyone from Genesis cept the likes of Highfather/DS/Metron...

Close match but im giving it to Marvel team 6/10.. What UniOmni said Lightray is the weaklink.. Just my 2 cents..

i See quasar as a weaker link. only becuz Lightray is far faster, stronger, and has matter manip. Quasar is the only one who doesn't have matter manip and some kind of body altering power, or invulnerablity. He's also not as fast in combat as the others.

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
i See quasar as a weaker link. only becuz Lightray is far faster, stronger, and has matter manip. Quasar is the only one who doesn't have matter manip and some kind of body altering power, or invulnerablity. He's also not as fast in combat as the others. quasar is a virtual equal to hal jordan.

try and keep up.

Caps Conscience

RESPECT DA CAPTAIN

TricksterPriest

Originally posted by quanchi112
quasar is a virtual equal to hal jordan.

try and keep up.

Thought about this one abit more. The two are well matched, but the edge goes to Hal for a few reasons. The Q-bands ARE weaker than a GL ring. Too many weaknesses.

Quasar's problem is he can't fight well close up. And he never figured out how to amp his stats with the Q-bands, something Hal is very good at.

Lightray vs. Bill is tough to call. Normally Bil would win simply because Lightray wouldn't want it badly enough. However, Insane Lightray is pretty tough. The fight could go either way. I don't see Bill as being able to easily beat him. Even Orion had a tough time taking Insane Lightray down. I can't remember how fast Lightray is, so barring a speedblitz, close fight.

Surfer vs. Firestorm goes to Surfer narrowly. But if they get smart and switch up the matchups abit, this could be a win for the DC team. Firestorm would clobber Bill alot more easily than Lightray could.

Acrosurge

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thought about this one abit more. The two are well matched, but the edge goes to Hal for a few reasons. The Q-bands ARE weaker than a GL ring. Too many weaknesses.

Quasar's problem is he can't fight well close up. And he never figured out how to amp his stats with the Q-bands, something Hal is very good at.Quasar has often increased his durability and strength with the Q-Bands. He shields himself with an aura, spherical bubbles, and Quantum armor. During Annihilation, he flew from ground level to orbit in four seconds or less. In the same series, he was also able to amp his strength high enough to physically stop Nova's ship from crashing into a planet.

I'm not saying Q takes a majority over Hal, I just wanted to point out that their stats aren't catastrophically different. Hal may have an advantage in the amount of info the Ring can process (mental advantage), but not so much in other categories.

UniOmni

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thought about this one abit more. The two are well matched, but the edge goes to Hal for a few reasons. The Q-bands ARE weaker than a GL ring. Too many weaknesses.

Quasar's problem is he can't fight well close up. And he never figured out how to amp his stats with the Q-bands, something Hal is very good at.

Lightray vs. Bill is tough to call. Normally Bil would win simply because Lightray wouldn't want it badly enough. However, Insane Lightray is pretty tough. The fight could go either way. I don't see Bill as being able to easily beat him. Even Orion had a tough time taking Insane Lightray down. I can't remember how fast Lightray is, so barring a speedblitz, close fight.

Surfer vs. Firestorm goes to Surfer narrowly. But if they get smart and switch up the matchups abit, this could be a win for the DC team. Firestorm would clobber Bill alot more easily than Lightray could.

Firestorm would clobber Bill?

In what showing did he clobber an elite top tier of Bills caliber?

quanchi112

Originally posted by UniOmni
Firestorm would clobber Bill?

In what showing did he clobber an elite top tier of Bills caliber? psssst.

trickster is dc biased. he admites it pretty much saying hes a dc fanatic.

quanchi112

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thought about this one abit more. The two are well matched, but the edge goes to Hal for a few reasons. The Q-bands ARE weaker than a GL ring. Too many weaknesses.

Quasar's problem is he can't fight well close up. And he never figured out how to amp his stats with the Q-bands, something Hal is very good at.

Lightray vs. Bill is tough to call. Normally Bil would win simply because Lightray wouldn't want it badly enough. However, Insane Lightray is pretty tough. The fight could go either way. I don't see Bill as being able to easily beat him. Even Orion had a tough time taking Insane Lightray down. I can't remember how fast Lightray is, so barring a speedblitz, close fight.

Surfer vs. Firestorm goes to Surfer narrowly. But if they get smart and switch up the matchups abit, this could be a win for the DC team. Firestorm would clobber Bill alot more easily than Lightray could. qbands are superior to a gl ring.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by UniOmni
Firestorm would clobber Bill?

In what showing did he clobber an elite top tier of Bills caliber?

Firestorm>upgraded Kalibak>Orion>BRB

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
qbands are superior to a gl ring.
Since when?

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Firestorm>upgraded Kalibak>Orion>BRB brb would stomp a mudhole in orions face.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by quanchi112
brb would stomp a mudhole in orions face.

laughing

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
laughing

two words for u.

handgesture.

Estacado

Could you tell me what can the quantum bands do that a GL ring can't?Cause I can list a few this that a ring can do but the bands can't....

Acrosurge

Originally posted by Estacado
Could you tell me what can the quantum bands do that a GL ring can't?Cause I can list a few this that a ring can do but the bands can't.... Never seen the Q-bands manipulate matter, so the GL rings are superior in that respect. Pound for pound, however, a Quantum Band user should ultimately be able to call upon more raw power than a GL user, since they have access to the endless Quantum Zone and the GL wielders have to share the Central Battery.

Hal and Wendell's limits are kind of reversed, which is an interesting point. Hal is limited by the extent of his will. Wendell is not limited by his will (it isn't necessary for him to manipulate power or generate constructs), but imposes mental limits on himself due to his human body.

Again, not saying Quasar wins absolutely over Hal, just pointing out some differences, positives, and negatives.

Estacado

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Never seen the Q-bands manipulate matter, so the GL rings are superior in that respect. Pound for pound, however, a Quantum Band user should ultimately be able to call upon more raw power than a GL user, since they have access to the endless Quantum Zone and the GL wielders have to share the Central Battery.

Hal and Wendell's limits are kind of reversed, which is an interesting point. Hal is limited by the extent of his will. Wendell is not limited by his will (it isn't necessary for him to manipulate power or generate constructs), but imposes mental limits on himself due to his human body.

Again, not saying Quasar wins absolutely over Hal, just pointing out some differences, positives, and negatives.
The power of the Battery is limitless it is also called the "Righ Hand Of God" Hal can also stop time ,drain souls ,give him self any power he wants and many more.....

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
Could you tell me what can the quantum bands do that a GL ring can't?Cause I can list a few this that a ring can do but the bands can't.... qbands arent afraid of the color yellow that is for sure.

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
qbands arent afraid of the color yellow that is for sure.
What are you talking about?

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
What are you talking about? gl rings were affected by the color yellow. remember. damn parallax.

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
gl rings were affected by the color yellow. remember. damn parallax.
You idiot GLs can over come yellow weakness with ease for about 2-3 years now...haermm
Haven't read too much GL books....eh?

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
You idiot GLs can over come yellow weakness with ease for about 2-3 years now...haermm
Haven't read too much GL books....eh? i kno wthey can now. but they had the weakness.

that shows how weak they can be.

parallax destoyed all the gl's.

its easy to kill gl's in dc though.

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
i kno wthey can now. but they had the weakness.

that shows how weak they can be.

parallax destoyed all the gl's.

its easy to kill gl's in dc though.
You idiot the weakness was set by the Guardians because Parallax was imprisoned in the central battery so they had to make sure that when GLs recharge their rings they won't get influenced by Parallax that's why the rings had no effect on yellow it's not because it is weak against the yellow color...
Your comic knowledge is so poor and pathetic.You fail thumb down

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
You idiot the weakness was set by the Guardians because Parallax was imprisoned in the central battery so they had to make sure that when GLs recharge their rings they won't get influenced by Parallax that's why the rings had no effect on yellow it's not because it is weak against the yellow color...
Your comic knowledge is so poor and pathetic.You fail thumb down

yes they had to put a failsafe in so they dont get influenced by parallax. hal jordan went nuts and killed many many gl's.
\

gls have historically been cannon fodder.

parallax>haljordan>any other green lantern ever.

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
yes they had to put a failsafe in so they dont get influenced by parallax. hal jordan went nuts and killed many many gl's.
\

gls have historically been cannon fodder.

parallax>haljordan>any other green lantern ever.
You fail again 5 green lanters have locked up Parallax in the central battery in GL rebirth.Kyle ,Hal ,Kilowog ,Guy ,John.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
You fail again 5 green lanters have locked up Parallax in the central battery in GL rebirth.Kyle ,Hal ,Kilowog ,Guy ,John. he cant kill them all. the gl's will survive but wow did parallax mess them up.

cannon fodder.

laughing

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
he cant kill them all. the gl's will survive but wow did parallax mess them up.

cannon fodder.

laughing

It was Hal not Parallax and he killed less then 30 GLs Hal only became uber powerful because he absorbed the battery not because he was influenced by Parallax.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Estacado
It was Hal not Parallax and he killed less then 30 GLs Hal only became uber powerful because he absorbed the battery not because he was influenced by Parallax. was parallax influencing hal or did hal want to do this on his own.

please get ur facts straight. what happened to u with all ur darkseid feats in the other thread.

oh u came to ur senses huh?

Estacado

Originally posted by quanchi112
was parallax influencing hal or did hal want to do this on his own.

please get ur facts straight. what happened to u with all ur darkseid feats in the other thread.

oh u came to ur senses huh?
Have you even read the story? Hal attacked the CORPS because they didn't allow him to repair his city.

carver9

Ummm, I kinda agree with brb being superior to orion. Brb>orion, just my opinion. Brb just possess to much raw, planet busting power. Havent seen many top tiers destroy a planet in dc while fighting. Can you show me a recent scan of a dc top tier destroying a planet. To my knowledge there isnt any. A lot of people claim that dc is > marvel but I havent seen anything yet to convince me of that. Brb destroying 2 planets in one fight and shrugging off a blast that was stated as being hotter than a dozen suns.

Sirius77

Insane Lightray takes the Surfer.

Hal takes Quasar easily.

Firestorm turns BRB into an inanimate object.

carver9

Originally posted by Sirius77
Insane Lightray takes the Surfer.

Hal takes Quasar easily.

Firestorm turns BRB into an inanimate object.

Surfer destroys lightray, insane or not.

Hal takes quasar but not easily.

Beta ray bill absorbs everything that firestrorm throws at him and punches his head off with a planet destroying punch and can someone please show me someone below sky father level from dc destroying a planet.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer destroys lightray, insane or not.

Hal takes quasar but not easily.

Beta ray bill absorbs everything that firestrorm throws at him and punches his head off with a planet destroying punch and can someone please show me someone below sky father level from dc destroying a planet.

DC characters dont' go around destroying planets. For what? Not when they can just move them. As kilowog did. Anyway, Surfer doesn't destroy Insane light ray. unless you think Surfer is superior to takion. Who had a time of lightray himself.

darthgoober

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Stop trying to base his power off of a single feat for crying out loud. Do you consider Lightray the equal of a Watcher or the Unilord? Because Surfer actually BEAT them...

Get the **** outta here. The runner didn't have many appearaces either and yet we base him off of his fight with the surfer. now what. As I thought. be quiet. this is INSANE lightray. and there is only that feat. But his other feats while sane do back up that he is insanely powerful and never bothers to fight. Do you not understand peace loving is his nature? i guess you don't. It's the same argument I use for surfer as to why He jobbers to thanos when he should put up a much better fight.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Get the **** outta here. The runner didn't have many appearaces either and yet we base him off of his fight with the surfer. now what. As I thought. be quiet. this is INSANE lightray. and there is only that feat. But his other feats while sane do back up that he is insanely powerful and never bothers to fight. Do you not understand peace loving is his nature? i guess you don't. It's the same argument I use for surfer as to why He jobbers to thanos when he should put up a much better fight.
And Surfer's a pacifist, but the times he beat a Watcher or the Unilord he was pretty pissed so by your logic that must be how powerful a bloodlusted Surfer really is.

And stop comparing Lightray to the Runner. Lightray has quite a few more appearances than the Runner does, so when has he EVER demonstrated power on par with Takion outside of that fight?

carver9

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DC characters dont' go around destroying planets. For what? Not when they can just move them. As kilowog did. Anyway, Surfer doesn't destroy Insane light ray. unless you think Surfer is superior to takion. Who had a time of lightray himself.

ABC logic huh. Well since your doing that then i can say this then. Thor used the god blast on galactus and made him flee and scream in pain and then turned around and used it on juggernaut who didnt even feel it, didnt get a scratch and basically walked through it. So juggernaut>>>>galactus.

Just like I thought, dc characters dont have planet destroying strength. Dont have any on panel feats to prove other wise.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Surfer's a pacifist, but the times he beat a Watcher or the Unilord he was pretty pissed so by your logic that must be how powerful a bloodlusted Surfer really is.

And stop comparing Lightray to the Runner. Lightray has quite a few more appearances than the Runner does, so when has he EVER demonstrated power on par with Takion outside of that fight?

When he created a super sun after being exhausted fighting the death avatar the black racer. who is invincible. when there was a shield around new genenisis that no one could break, and yet he casually heated up to a few times a suns heat and pierced it like a bullet. when he beat mongel with ease. Something Superman hasn't ever done. And Takion said he was nearly as powerful. As i said, While sane, he has shown that he has the power. But his peaceful nature doesn't allow him many combat feats. at any rate, the new gods are all uber. A lowly NEw god threw the gravity of a couple thousand galaxies at superman. And he was beneath lightray. And yes surfer is uber powerful. He shouldn't be getting his ass waxed to thanos like he does. but, he's a pacifist. There is nothing in Lightray's power sets that suggest he is any lessor than anyone on the field. But Popularity seems to determine who people think is "herald" lvl and who isn't.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by carver9
ABC logic huh. Well since your doing that then i can say this then. Thor used the god blast on galactus and made him flee and scream in pain and then turned around and used it on juggernaut who didnt even feel it, didnt get a scratch and basically walked through it. So juggernaut>>>>galactus.

Just like I thought, dc characters dont have planet destroying strength. Dont have any on panel feats to prove other wise.

Superman and Wonder Woman held up the wieght of Eternity. wink

P.S. I haven't seen many marvel guys destroy a planet with pure strength. It's almost always a hammer, or some cosmic energy around thier fist, or an ax.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When he created a super sun after being exhausted fighting the death avatar the black racer. who is invincible.
Surfer created a black hole and...

Blackhole>Sun

And if we're thinking of the same instance, Lightray didn't really fight BR so much as run from him until Metron saved him by teleporting BR away. And if Lightray was really on par with Takion, then why was he running from BR anyway?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
when there was a shield around new genenisis that no one could break, and yet he casually heated up to a few times a suns heat and pierced it like a bullet.
Surfer shattered a mystic forcefield that was keeping Dr. Strange and the rest of the Defenders captive.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
when he beat mongel with ease. Something Superman hasn't ever done.
Surfer defeated Durok with ease, which is something that Thor's never done.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And Takion said he was nearly as powerful.
Do you have any IDEA how many times Surfer's gotten praise from his opponents(including the Unilord, who's power Surfer matched)?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As i said, While sane, he has shown that he has the power. But his peaceful nature doesn't allow him many combat feats.
In that case, I guess we have to consider a bloodlusted Spiderman to be herald level since he can take down Firelord when he's REALLY pissed.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
at any rate, the new gods are all uber. A lowly NEw god threw the gravity of a couple thousand galaxies at superman. And he was beneath lightray.
Proof?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And yes surfer is uber powerful. He shouldn't be getting his ass waxed to thanos like he does. but, he's a pacifist.
But should he be considered on par with the Unilord or a Watcher?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is nothing in Lightray's power sets that suggest he is any lessor than anyone on the field.
There's nothing to suggest that the random people walking around Marvel aren't actually TOAA other than a lack of feats...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But Popularity seems to determine who people think is "herald" lvl and who isn't.
No, CONSISTENT feats determine who's herald level. EVERYONE has one or two high showings.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer created a black hole and...

Blackhole>Sun

And if we're thinking of the same instance, Lightray didn't really fight BR so much as run from him until Metron saved him by teleporting BR away. And if Lightray was really on par with Takion, then why was he running from BR anyway?

Surfer shattered a mystic forcefield that was keeping Dr. Strange and the rest of the Defenders captive.

Surfer defeated Durok with ease, which is something that Thor's never done.

Do you have any IDEA how many times Surfer's gotten praise from his opponents(including the Unilord, who's power Surfer matched)?

In that case, I guess we have to consider a bloodlusted Spiderman to be herald level since he can take down Firelord when he's REALLY pissed.

Proof?

But should he be considered on par with the Unilord or a Watcher?

There's nothing to suggest that the random people walking around Marvel aren't actually TOAA other than a lack of feats...

No, CONSISTENT feats determine who's herald level. EVERYONE has one or two high showings.

first of all. I forgot that you are a surfer fanboy. so now that I know where you are coming from i'll address you accordingly.

Super Sun AFTER being exausted. SUPER SUN. not a regular sun.

Also, BR is more powerful than ANy new gods. EvEN TAKION. so yeah. light ray had to run.

Spiderman Firelord is a dumb example of you to use. Becuz spiderman is not a god. he does not have 8 times light speed, hard light constructs, Herald lvl durability, matter manipulation, Multiple times the sun's destructive heat capacity, and godly origins to back him up as having anything to suggest that he was ever in firelord's ball park.

As I said, lightray has lack of feats only in battle. But the displays of power that he does have, show that he is totally with in reason when not holdign back to be as powerful as Takion suggested. Even Superman says that anything that can kill Lightray is a SERIOUS threat.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
first of all. I forgot that you are a surfer fanboy. so now that I know where you are coming from i'll address you accordingly.

Super Sun AFTER being exausted. SUPER SUN. not a regular sun.

Also, BR is more powerful than ANy new gods. EvEN TAKION. so yeah. light ray had to run.

Spiderman Firelord is a dumb example of you to use. Becuz spiderman is not a god. he does not have 8 times light speed, hard light constructs, Herald lvl durability, matter manipulation, Multiple times the sun's destructive heat capacity, and godly origins to back him up as having anything to suggest that he was ever in firelord's ball park.

As I said, lightray has lack of feats only in battle. But the displays of power that he does have, show that he is totally with in reason when not holdign back to be as powerful as Takion suggested. Even Superman says that anything that can kill Lightray is a SERIOUS threat.
I'm a fanboy laughing out loud

? I'm not the one that's trying to base a character off of a single high end feat.

But back to the point(and ignoring your sidestepping), does Lightray have a SINGLE feat(other than the fight with Takion itself) to indicate he's beyond a top tier herald or GL(meaning a feat that they haven't matched or beaten)?

Oh yeah, and reported for bashing...

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm a fanboy laughing out loud

? I'm not the one that's trying to base a character off of a single high end feat.

But back to the point, does Lightray have a SINGLE feat(other than the fight itself) to indicate he's beyond a top tier herald or GL(meaning a feat that they haven't matched or beaten)?

Oh yeah, and reported for bashing...

Please report. HAH. cuz i called you a fanboy. See how well that goes over. laughing

Fanboy is used all of the time and is not bashing.

It's a single high end feat in BATTLE. But it's not the only one. Remember him pwning Mongul with Ease. Superman is High end herald for sure. And has NEVER done that so easily. I dont' know too many herald lvl beigns who have created Super Suns. Surfer went mad just from the power of ONE sun. And it's not about a single feat anyone hasn't matched or beaten. It's about a collection of feats that put him on level with everyone here. And one high end showing while mad, against highfather, and one high end showing against Takion, that shows, he can be beyond the others when pushed. And I just waiting to see how you rebuff the fact that your Spiderman Firelord example was trashed by my reasoning.

Galan007

Originally posted by quanchi112
orion has never beaten darkseid even when he wsnt using his reality altering powers. orion has been a failure since day one. I've seen Orion kill Darkseid on panel. smile

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Please report. HAH. cuz i called you a fanboy. See how well that goes over. laughing

Fanboy is used all of the time and is not bashing.
You obviously haven't read up on the new rules(you should probably get around to that). See, Rex DOES consider the word "fanboy" to be bashing wink

.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's a single high end feat in BATTLE.
And guys like Surfer have SEVERAL high end feats "in BATTLE" which put him at skyfather or even abstract level.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But it's not the only one. Remember him pwning Mongul with Ease. Superman is High end herald for sure. And has NEVER done that so easily.
And Surfer beat Durok with far greater ease than Thor(who's also high end herald). But just for clarification, are you talking about Pre Crisis or Post Crisis Mongul?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I dont' know too many herald lvl beigns who have created Super Suns. Surfer went mad just from the power of ONE sun.
Yeah about 10 years ago Surfer couldn't handle the power of a Sun, big deal. Since then he's gone on to create a black hole, and I don't know of any New Gods that have done that...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And it's not about a single feat anyone hasn't matched or beaten. It's about a collection of feats that put him on level with everyone here. And one high end showing while mad, against highfather, and one high end showing against Takion, that shows, he can be beyond the others when pushed.
Surfer has FAR more numerous high end feats than you just listed and Surfer's high end exceeds Lightray's by quite a bit, so I'm still not getting why you see Lightray as being superior.

Here I have an idea, you post a high end feat of Lightray's and I'll respond with a high end feat from Surfer that equals or exceeds it, and we'll see who's really better. You game?

carver9

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Superman and Wonder Woman held up the wieght of Eternity. wink

P.S. I haven't seen many marvel guys destroy a planet with pure strength. It's almost always a hammer, or some cosmic energy around thier fist, or an ax.

But again struggled to move a moon by himself.

I have seen plenty of marvel people destroy planets. So Im guessing that youre saying that if I had thor hammer I could destroy a planet. I dont agree, thor and beta ray bill strength alone destroyed the planet, the hammer was just there with them during this time.

So gladiator used cosmic energy to destroy a planet. I could have sworn it was his fist. Never, can you just show me a scan of a dc top tier destroying a planet.

I also disagree that superman is a top tier herald being. He is powerful but not even close to the power that any herald has. When he is able to bring back the dead, heal people, matter manipulate, go back in time, reverse time, fast foward time, give other beings powers, create suns, create star, create black holes, take your powers away from you, etc... then I would consider him a herald but he aint even close.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
You obviously haven't read up on the new rules(you should probably get around to that). See, Rex DOES consider the word "fanboy" to be bashing wink

.

And guys like Surfer have SEVERAL high end feats "in BATTLE" which put him at skyfather or even abstract level.

And Surfer beat Durok with far greater ease than Thor(who's also high end herald). But just for clarification, are you talking about Pre Crisis or Post Crisis Mongul?

Yeah about 10 years ago Surfer couldn't handle the power of a Sun, big deal. Since then he's gone on to create a black hole, and I don't know of any New Gods that have done that...

Surfer has FAR more numerous high end feats than you just listed and Surfer's high end exceeds Lightray's by quite a bit, so I'm still not getting why you see Lightray as being superior.

Here I have an idea, you post a high end feat of Lightray's and I'll respond with a high end feat from Surfer, and we'll see who's really better. You game?

First of all, a black hole comes from a collapsed star. it takes more power to create one than to collapse one. The black hole itself is superior to light and stars. but not the creation of. Just thought you would like to know that.

As far as surfer having more feats, of course. he's had his own series and been in more books. So I won't play the game.Surfer jobbers to thanos but beats others more powerful. Surfer's consistand handling by thanos shows that his battle's with others is PIS. his battle feats are shit becuz he still can't beat thanos. now if you excuse me, I have more research to do on the new gods. big grin

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by carver9
But again struggled to move a moon by himself.

I have seen plenty of marvel people destroy planets. So Im guessing that youre saying that if I had thor hammer I could destroy a planet. I dont agree, thor and beta ray bill strength alone destroyed the planet, the hammer was just there with them during this time.

So gladiator used cosmic energy to destroy a planet. I could have sworn it was his fist. Never, can you just show me a scan of a dc top tier destroying a planet.

I also disagree that superman is a top tier herald being. He is powerful but not even close to the power that any herald has. When he is able to bring back the dead, heal people, matter manipulate, go back in time, reverse time, fast foward time, give other beings powers, create suns, create star, create black holes, take your powers away from you, etc... then I would consider him a herald but he aint even close.

Not all heralds can do what you are saying. Top tier herald lvl in power output. As far as the hammers go, anyone knows that the hammers are enchanted and are indestructible. Any act permitted with them in hand is not a pure strength feat as the hammer itself contributes to the destruction of what ever they are hitting.

As for top tier herald lvl, There are GL"s who shit on heralds for feats. Should then GL's be skyfathers? roll eyes (sarcastic)

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
First of all, a black hole comes from a collapsed star. it takes more power to create one than to collapse one. The black hole itself is superior to light and stars. but not the creation of. Just thought you would like to know that.
Tell you what, you ask any of the respected posters around here which is more impressive, the creation of a star or the creation of a black hole and see which they find more impressive.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As far as surfer having more feats, of course. he's had his own series and been in more books. So I won't play the game.
Cop out. Surfer not only has more feats, he also has BETTER feats than any I've heard for Lightray, which is why only the most biased individual can make the claim that Lightray's more powerful unless they know of a feat that hasn't been mentioned.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl

Surfer jobbers to thanos but beats others more powerful. Surfer's consistand handling by thanos shows that his battle's with others is PIS. his battle feats are shit becuz he still can't beat thanos.
Tell you what, when Thanos showings start lacking consistency THEN Surfer losing might be considered PIS. But seeing as how he's dominated pretty much every fight he's been in involving herald level characters, you're probably SOL on that claim.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
now if you excuse me, I have more research to do on the new gods. big grin

You should. And you should also devote some time to gathering actual evidence outside of ABC logic and speculation wink

carver9

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Not all heralds can do what you are saying. Top tier herald lvl in power output. As far as the hammers go, anyone knows that the hammers are enchanted and are indestructible. Any act permitted with them in hand is not a pure strength feat as the hammer itself contributes to the destruction of what ever they are hitting.

As for top tier herald lvl, There are GL"s who shit on heralds for feats. Should then GL's be skyfathers? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Did i say anything about feats, nope, Im talking about power out put and also abilities. GL's, i consider them herald level beings because most of the things that i named, they can do. Do you consider mimic mid level herald since he can fly at enourmous speed, has super strength, near invulnerability, optic blast, healing factor, super hearing and seeing, etc... Do you think that he is mid level herald. I dont think so. High level heralds has all of superman powers plus interest, a lot of interest. Like I said superman is very powerful but no where close to the power that a herald has.

The hammer, yes that is a true statement if the user didnt have the strength backing up the power. Beta ray bill used nothing but pure raw strength. Gladiator used nothing but pure raw strength. No dc earth (i said earth, not cosmic) level being has destroyed a planet yet, I have yet to witness them destroy anything the size of a moutain yet, with there fist. Dc will be here forever so they have plenty of time to write a character doing that but until then they dont have planet busting strength, until proven other wise.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Tell you what, you ask any of the respected posters around here which is more impressive, the creation of a star or the creation of a black hole and see which they find more impressive.

Cop out. Surfer not only has more feats, he also has BETTER feats than any I've heard for Lightray, which is why only the most biased individual can make the claim that Lightray's more powerful unless they know of a feat that hasn't been mentioned.

Tell you what, when Thanos showings start lacking consistency THEN Surfer losing might be considered PIS. But seeing as how he's dominated pretty much every fight he's been in involving herald level characters, you're probably SOL on that claim.

You should. And you should also devote some time to gathering actual evidence outside of ABC logic and speculation wink

.

I don't have to ask any posters which is more impressive. I know scientifically it takes more energy to create a star. And he created a Super STAR after being exhausted. So creating a black hole is well with in his full powered status of abilities.

As for me being biased, not exactly, i'm just using logic. One doesn't fight Takion, and have him say out of his mouth that he is nearly as powerful as He, and then when looking at Lightray's powers, and his origin, and his other feats, and think, that that is a once only thing. It's pretty much saying this is his true power lvl when he's not such a lame.

Thanos beating herald lvl characters has nothing to do with the fact that thanos cannot beat a sky father. So Surfer beating skyfathers and abstracts goes out of the window becuz those are inconsistant showings while Thanos beating his ass is consistant.

You should devote some time to learning that I dont use abc logic. I use a combination of things. If I used abc logic, I would think Thanos beats galactus just becuz Surfer has beaten abstract lvl beings.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I don't have to ask any posters which is more impressive. I know scientifically it takes more energy to create a star. And he created a Super STAR after being exhausted. So creating a black hole is well with in his full powered status of abilities.
Except that if Lightray's star contained more energy than Surfer's black hole, it would have collapsed under the weight of its own gravity which ALSO would have created a black hole. That means there's no way his star was more impressive. What's more Surfer didn't just create a black hole, the black hole was actually a SIDE EFFECT of Surfer's energy output, which means that the initial blast was roughly equivalent to a Super Nova(and as we know Supernova's are backed by the entirety of the star's energy). The creation of the black hole also happened after a fight between Surfer and Annihilus's guys(so he wasn't in peak condition either) and he still had plenty of energy left over after the black hole was created.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As for me being biased, exactly, i'm just using logic. One doesn't fight Takion, and have him say out of his mouth that he is nearly as powerful as He, and then when looking at Lightray's powers, and his origin, and his other feats, and think, that that is a once only thing. It's pretty much saying this is his true power lvl when he's not such a lame.
If it wasn't a one time demonstration of power, then you shouldn't have ANY trouble finding a feat that backs up Takion's statement.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Thanos beating herald lvl characters has nothing to do with the fact that thanos cannot beat a sky father. So Surfer beating skyfathers and abstracts goes out of the window becuz those are inconsistant showings while Thanos beating his ass is consistant.
Why can't Thanos beat a skyfather? After all, he stood up to the top skyfather in Marvel for a while, and he's been upgraded(and has far more impressive feats) since then.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You should devote some time to learning that I dont use abc logic. I use a combination of things. If I used abc logic, I would think Thanos beats galactus just becuz Surfer has beaten abstract lvl beings.
Bullshit. You're basing your entire assessment of Lightray off of his battle with Takion(which as Uni pointed out, isn't the norm for Lightray). If you weren't, you'd have some feat in mind that hasn't been equaled or surpassed by the likes of Surfer or a GL.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that if Lightray's star contained more energy than Surfer's black hole, it would have collapsed under the weight of its own gravity which ALSO would have created a black hole. That means there's no way his star was more impressive. What's more Surfer didn't just create a black hole, the black hole was actually a SIDE EFFECT of Surfer's energy output, which means that the initial blast was roughly equivalent to a Super Nova(and as we know Supernova's are backed by the entirety of the star's energy). The creation of the black hole also happened after a fight between Surfer and Annihilus's guys(so he wasn't in peak condition either) and he still had plenty of energy left over after the black hole was created.

If it wasn't a one time demonstration of power, then you shouldn't have ANY trouble finding a feat that backs up Takion's statement.

Why can't Thanos beat a skyfather? After all, he stood up to the top skyfather in Marvel for a while, and he's been upgraded(and has far more impressive feats) since then.

Bullshit. You're basing your entire assessment of Lightray off of his battle with Takion(which as Uni pointed out, isn't the norm for Lightray). If you weren't, you'd have some feat in mind that hasn't been equaled or surpassed by the likes of Surfer or a GL.

Actually the feat is creating the star and maintaining it while DRAINED in order to stop the black racer. So um yeah, the star wouldn't collapse while LR was holding it together to stop BR.

As I said, Light ray beat Mongul with EASE. That is enough of a feat in itself to back up Takion's Claim. Also him knocking over highfather. haven't seen too many people do that.

And No, thanos cannot beat a skyfather. he's never beaten one.

Any idiot can see that Lightray fighting takion isn't the norm. he's a passifist. And he hasn't ever had his own series. Duh. The full extent of his abilities were fleshed out. and it's not like the fight with takion was the only thing he did when insane.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually the feat is creating the star and maintaining it while DRAINED in order to stop the black racer. So um yeah, the star wouldn't collapse while LR was holding it together to stop BR.
Prove that the star would have collapsed and created a black hole if not for Lightray.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As I said, Light ray beat Mongul with EASE. That is enough of a feat in itself to back up Takion's Claim. Also him knocking over highfather. haven't seen too many people do that.
Then Surfer beating Durok with EASE must mean the same thing. And I haven't seen to many people beat on the Unilord either.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And No, thanos cannot beat a skyfather. he's never beaten one.
He's done better. He beat the Maker, who's an evolved cosmic cube wink

.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Any idiot can see that Lightray fighting takion isn't the norm. he's a passifist. And he hasn't ever had his own series. Duh. The full extent of his abilities were fleshed out. and it's not like the fight with takion was the only thing he did when insane.
Then name some other stuff he did to support it.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Prove that the star would have collapsed and created a black hole if not for Lightray.

Then Surfer beating Durok with EASE must mean the same thing. And I haven't seen to many people beat on the Unilord either.

He's done better. He beat the Maker, who's an evolved cosmic cube wink

.

Then name some other stuff he did to support it.
I don't have to prove anything. Everyone knows that when a star collapses, it makes a black hole. You prove that surfer can make a star. See how easy and silly that game is.

I have the unilord saga. And I have to read it again. Not sure it was just a str8 up fight. there was more to it.

Any way, The maker, was an evolved cosmic cube that did what? not all cube beings are created equal. hell it took the goddess with 30 cubes to try and ignite all the suns in the universe. And you surely aren't trying to use thanos beating the maker as some kind of example when you are so adamant about me not using lightray's fight with takion as example now are you? Thanos bowed before Galactus, never hurt odin, and didn't hurt tyrant. He consistantly shows he cannot beat skyfather lvl beings.

As for other stuff that support Takion's claim, i already stated them. Knocking over highfather with a casual blast, beating mongul with ease, creating a super star, and piercing a barrier that NO ONE could get thru. On a planet full of Gods. Since he has so few appearances, his feats are consistant enough that when not holding back, takion's statement hold's true. Unless you can show me lightray trying to light a candle and not being able to do it. Or trying to go faster than light and failing. He's shown on more than one occasion he can make solid light constructs, matter manipulate, generate multiple times the heat of stars without effort, and high lvl durability.

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I don't have to prove anything. Everyone knows that when a star collapses, it makes a black hole. You prove that surfer can make a star. See how easy and silly that game is.
Sure you do because you're making the UNFOUNDED claim that the star didn't become a black hole because of Lightray. I personally saw no such thing suggested and for the claim to be valid there needs to be actual evidence.

But in case you didn't notice, you said yourself that when a star collapses it makes a black hole, that means that Surfer's energy discharge was the equivalent of a star big grin

.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I have the unilord saga. And I have to read it again. Not sure it was just a str8 up fight. there was more to it.
It wasn't. Surfer got upgraded by a Blackbody which is what allowed him to absorb that much power, but since he never got rid of that upgrade...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Any way, The maker, was an evolved cosmic cube that did what? not all cube beings are created equal. hell it took the goddess with 30 cubes to try and ignite all the suns in the universe. And you surely aren't trying to use thanos beating the maker as some kind of example when you are so adamant about me not using lightray's fight with takion as example now are you? Thanos bowed before Galactus, never hurt odin, and didn't hurt tyrant. He consistantly shows he cannot beat skyfather lvl beings.
The difference between the Thanos/Maker fight and the Takion/Lightray fight is simple...Thanos was upgraded. The upgrade was never fully explored, but there's NOTHING to indicate that the feat was bogus. Pretty much the only showings Thanos had between his upgrade and his death was his beating the Maker, his blasting Galactus, and his utter owning of the Fallen One. Lightray received no actual upgrade(and he's still alive and making appearances), and the battle is beyond what he normally demonstrates.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As for other stuff that support Takion's claim, i already stated them. Knocking over highfather with a casual blast, beating mongul with ease, creating a super star, and piercing a barrier that NO ONE could get thru. On a planet full of Gods. Since he has so few appearances, his feats are consistant enough that when not holding back, takion's statement hold's true. Unless you can show me lightray trying to light a candle and not being able to do it. Or trying to go faster than light and failing. He's shown on more than one occasion he can make solid light constructs, matter manipulate, generate multiple times the heat of stars without effort, and high lvl durability.
And everything you just listed has been topped by Surfer(with feats that I've already listed), so NONE of it is an indication of Lightray's being equal to Surfer(let alone his being superior to Surfer).

quanchi112

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure you do because you're making the UNFOUNDED claim that the star didn't become a black hole because of Lightray. I personally saw no such thing suggested and for the claim to be valid there needs to be actual evidence.

But in case you didn't notice, you said yourself that when a star collapses it makes a black hole, that means that Surfer's energy discharge was the equivalent of a star big grin

.

It wasn't. Surfer got upgraded by a Blackbody which is what allowed him to absorb that much power, but since he never got rid of that upgrade...

The difference between the Thanos/Maker fight and the Takion/Lightray fight is simple...Thanos was upgraded. The upgrade was never fully explored, but there's NOTHING to indicate that the feat was bogus. Pretty much the only showings Thanos had between his upgrade and his death was his beating the Maker, his blasting Galactus, and his utter owning of the Fallen One. Lightray received no actual upgrade(and he's still alive and making appearances), and the battle is beyond what he normally demonstrates.

And everything you just listed has been topped by Surfer(with feats that I've already listed), so NONE of it is an indication of Lightray's being equal to Surfer(let alone his being superior to Surfer). thumb up

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I don't have to prove anything. Everyone knows that when a star collapses, it makes a black hole. You prove that surfer can make a star. See how easy and silly that game is.

I have the unilord saga. And I have to read it again. Not sure it was just a str8 up fight. there was more to it.

Any way, The maker, was an evolved cosmic cube that did what? not all cube beings are created equal. hell it took the goddess with 30 cubes to try and ignite all the suns in the universe. And you surely aren't trying to use thanos beating the maker as some kind of example when you are so adamant about me not using lightray's fight with takion as example now are you? Thanos bowed before Galactus, never hurt odin, and didn't hurt tyrant. He consistantly shows he cannot beat skyfather lvl beings.

As for other stuff that support Takion's claim, i already stated them. Knocking over highfather with a casual blast, beating mongul with ease, creating a super star, and piercing a barrier that NO ONE could get thru. On a planet full of Gods. Since he has so few appearances, his feats are consistant enough that when not holding back, takion's statement hold's true. Unless you can show me lightray trying to light a candle and not being able to do it. Or trying to go faster than light and failing. He's shown on more than one occasion he can make solid light constructs, matter manipulate, generate multiple times the heat of stars without effort, and high lvl durability. this statement says it all to u .

nver says I DONT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING.

spoken like a true ignoramus.

laughing

nvrbeenwthagirl

If thanos could beat this cube being, surely he wouldnt' have bowed in fear of galactus would he?

As fpr the unilord thing, See, there was an upgrade of some sorts that allowed him to win. So then it doesn't count. And since Surfer has had low showings after that saga, i'd say it's safe to say it was a temp upgrade. as comics dont' always take the time to show when an upgrade wears off. Or are we to assume that every time superman sun amps, it sticks with him. Since there is no idication that it is temp as he just stores solar energy until he needs it.

As for lightray not getting an upgrade, where have you been? he is a pacifist!! He doesn't need an upgrade, he is a new god. Connected to the source for one. directly to it. as shown when Yugah cut them all off from it. For two, When he went insane, that wasn't an upgrade, that was just him acting out of character. Acting with in the full extent of his powers. As i said, you act as if him fighting takion was the only thing he'd done while insane. he exibited so many powers and to such a great degree that one can't say, oh yeah, he just had an upgrade. no. He simply was acting out of character.

Surfer gets handled by thanos too much. I seem to remember surfer saying thor was his superior as well. Too much consistancy in Surfer's dealings with other top tiers or in thanos case, a step up, to say Surfer is far and away more powerful than a full extent lightray. Lightray is consistantly shown to be a pacifist, so any argument saying that his showing against takion isn't the norm is dumb. becuz we already know that. We also know that the abilities always were there. And this fight says, Lightray operatin at his insane capacity.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by quanchi112
thumb up

since when did any of the good posters want you to give them a thumbs up?

quanchi112

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
since when did any of the good posters want you to give them a thumbs up? since this one joined the fray.

when i agree with something i give it thumbs up. couldnt u figure that one out?

darthgoober

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
From your view point, I totally understand. As i said, being a fan of both surfer and the new gods, main is a bit more centered. smile

Oh yeah, you're obviously being FAR more objective than I am, which is why your naming feats for Lightray that Surfer hasn't beaten before right? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If thanos could beat this cube being, surely he wouldnt' have bowed in fear of galactus would he?
He wasn't trying to beat Galactus he was trying to get Galactus to listen, big difference. And I honestly don't get your point, since Galactus is more powerful than the Cube Beings.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As fpr the unilord thing, See, there was an upgrade of some sorts that allowed him to win. So then it doesn't count. And since Surfer has had low showings after that saga, i'd say it's safe to say it was a temp upgrade. as comics dont' always take the time to show when an upgrade wears off. Or are we to assume that every time superman sun amps, it sticks with him. Since there is no idication that it is temp as he just stores solar energy until he needs it.
His energy wasn't upgraded, his CAPACITY for storing energy and using it to amp was. And that's the kind of upgrade that doesn't go away until it's officially addressed. But if it makes you happy, I'll change my parallel from Unilord to Korvac who Surfer did better against solo than the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy did as a group.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As for lightray not getting an upgrade, where have you been? he is a pacifist!! He doesn't need an upgrade, he is a new god. Connected to the source for one. directly to it. as shown when Yugah cut them all off from it. For two, When he went insane, that wasn't an upgrade, that was just him acting out of character. Acting with in the full extent of his powers. As i said, you act as if him fighting takion was the only thing he'd done while insane. he exibited so many powers and to such a great degree that one can't say, oh yeah, he just had an upgrade. no. He simply was acting out of character.
Again you're trying to sidestep the REAL issue here. When has Lightray EVER done anything that puts him on par with Takion to validate the claim?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Surfer gets handled by thanos too much. I seem to remember surfer saying thor was his superior as well. Too much consistancy in Surfer's dealings with other top tiers or in thanos case, a step up, to say Surfer is far and away more powerful than a full extent lightray. Lightray is consistantly shown to be a pacifist, so any argument saying that his showing against takion isn't the norm is dumb. becuz we already know that. We also know that the abilities always were there. And this fight says, Lightray operatin at his insane capacity.
Prove that was an accurate portrayal of Lightray's abilities.