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Most people interpret Marvel's Supreme Being, the TOAA, to be one of a few things:
-the Marvel company
-the Editor
-the Writer

Now holding true with this idea, Christian God created Man and the Universe. The -real- universe in which TOAA resides.

If TOAA, Stan Lee/the Editor of Marvel/whatever, believes in this God, that essentially means God is more powerful than TOAA.

Now to some this seems ridiculous. Of course God is above a fictional concept. But to some, God is just a fictional concept to be used as such in versus debates. So i'm going with that idea though I personally believe in Him.

I think this is a good idea for a nice topic. I'd like to hear what other people think.

Unless StanLee created god . . .

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Most people interpret Marvel's Supreme Being, the TOAA, to be one of a few things:
-the Marvel company
-the Editor
-the Writer

Now holding true with this idea, Christian God created Man and the Universe. The -real- universe in which TOAA resides.

If TOAA, Stan Lee/the Editor of Marvel/whatever, believes in this God, that essentially means God is more powerful than TOAA.

Now to some this seems ridiculous. Of course God is above a fictional concept. But to some, God is just a fictional concept to be used as such in versus debates. So i'm going with that idea though I personally believe in Him.

I think this is a good idea for a nice topic. I'd like to hear what other people think.

To me...outside of Comics...God is "that which no greater can be thought" Meaning no human intellect or imagination can understand nor comprehend such power.

So yes, when I read Thanos becomes God. I find it to be utterly stupid and poorly cheap writing.

Several characters have become God in Comics.

Including people knowna s...God. lol

Keep in mind there's a difference between "a god" and "God".

In different mythos gods are not as powerful as God... since gods can be killed (Norse:Ragnarok for example) where as "God"? no stories about his/her demise being possible.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Unless StanLee created god . . .

doh

Didn't you guys hear? The Babel Fish killed God, when it proved his existence beyond a doubt, thus negating the need for faith...He then, in His Onipotence, disappeared into non-existence in a puff of logic.

...

Also, this is dangerously close to religion-forum fodder, and I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of it is anyway. I'll probably be closing it eventually.

Well, it relates to religion and comic books. How the two coincide. Just like all teh topics about levels of omnipotence as omnipotence is usually associated with religion.

I'm just seeing if my idea is viable; that if TOAA is Marvel and Marvel believes iN God, that God would be above TOAA.

Can't you keep it open for at least a day or so?

Interesting.

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Well, it relates to religion and comic books. How the two coincide. Just like all teh topics about levels of omnipotence as omnipotence is usually associated with religion.

I'm just seeing if my idea is viable; that if TOAA is Marvel and Marvel believes iN God, that God would be above TOAA.

Can't you keep it open for at least a day or so?

Well, are you trying to build a bridge between Comic book fiction and religious theology?

You could do it by way of mythos. However, IMO Marvel characters aren't well establish myths.....yet. Whereas DC does have the Golden age to provide such discussions.



If I recall...the Jews also believe Man and the Universe were the actions of that which we call God....

So do Muslims

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Christian God created Man and the Universe.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
If I recall...the Jews also believe Man and the Universe were the actions of that which we call God....

Originally posted by Endless Mike
So do Muslims

Wow . . . it's like they all worship the exact same entity.




Oh wait. That's why I hate religious wars between those three.

In the context that they both can be seen as fictional concepts. If you choose not to believe in Christianity, God is no more legitimate than the Living Tribunal and thus judging his "feats" is as objective as any other fictional character.

That's the angle I'm working with here though, as I said, I believe in Him.




Hence why He's usually referred to as the Judao-Christian God, I assume.

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
In the context that they both can be seen as fictional concepts. If you choose not to believe in Christianity, God is no more legitimate than the Living Tribunal and thus judging his "feats" is as objective as any other fictional character.

That's the angle I'm working with here though, as I said, I believe in Him.

Awesome. Now I can justify God vs LT vs Haruhi.

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
In the context that they both can be seen as fictional concepts. If you choose not to believe in Christianity, God is no more legitimate than the Living Tribunal and thus judging his "feats" is as objective as any other fictional character.

That's the angle I'm working with here though, as I said, I believe in Him.



So you're saying that the discussion is inherently geared toward those who don't believe in God, so that we can treat God's "feats" on the same level as TOAA? Otherwise the Biblical/Quranic/Judaic God wins by default.

Hilarious.

In that case, TOAA ftw! God has to show me more on-panel feats before I believe the hype.

31

...

...probably closing soon anyway though. I can't see this thread running smoothly for any length of time.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Didn't you guys hear? The Babel Fish killed God, when it proved his existence beyond a doubt, thus negating the need for faith...He then, in His Onipotence, disappeared into non-existence in a puff of logic.


Sadly enough, I get the reference without having read the book.

Clearly someone has never read Superman vs. Jesus.

For some people, such as the person who inspired me to make this topic, think we should use their feats because they're as 'real" as any comic book character.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Didn't you guys hear? The Babel Fish killed God, when it proved his existence beyond a doubt, thus negating the need for faith...He then, in His Onipotence, disappeared into non-existence in a puff of logic.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
this is dangerously close to religion-forum fodder


I agree, quoting Douglas Adams always comes close to being religious forum fodder

You miss the point of TOAA. TOAA is the actual creator of the comics. He writes the fiction and is not a part of it - that's why TOAA is truly supreme. Just like how TOAA is supreme onto his creations, God is supreme onto His creations: TOAA.

Clarify?

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
You miss the point of TOAA. TOAA is the actual creator of the comics. He writes the fiction and is not a part of it - that's why TOAA is truly supreme. Just like how TOAA is supreme onto his creations, God is supreme onto His creations: TOAA.

Yeah, but Marvel's TOAA has never claimed to be the Creator behind anything except the Marvel Omniverse (or multiverse/whatever-verse). Western images of God would have him as the Creator of the entire Omniverse, which would include the fictional Marvel universe.

Even based on fictional asumptions, not actual theology, "God" has the advantage because we don't know for certain that there's another Omniverse above ours, and we're just a creation of one of its inhabitants. We do know that about TOAA/Stan Lee so it's a non-fight.

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Clarify?
How can God be all powerful and good, when there is so much pain and suffering in the world?
- Either he's isn't completely good, all powerful or both.


Did you know that 73,4% of the Americans rather believe in the Bible than what has been scientifical proven?
Still most Americans haven't read it, they just have a Bible at home.
It's most likely that the Bible is an old fiction which have awaken thoughts.
You can't prove it wrong, but then again you cannot prove Hans and Greta wrong either.

To say that God >> Writer = TOAA
Is like saying Joe Public = Writer >> Superman
So why do some wish that they were Superman?

Not to mention that God from the bible both the new and old testament is terribly flawed.

Originally posted by Astner
How can God be all powerful and good, when there is so much pain and suffering in the world?
- Either he's isn't completely good, all powerful or both.


Did you know that 73,4% of the Americans rather believe in the Bible than what has been scientifical proven?
Still most Americans haven't read it, they just have a Bible at home.
It's most likely that the Bible is an old fiction which have awaken thoughts.
You can't prove it wrong, but then again you cannot prove Hans and Greta wrong either.

To say that God >> Writer = TOAA
Is like saying Joe Public = Writer >> Superman
So why do some wish that they were Superman?

Not to mention that God from the bible both the new and old testament is terribly flawed.

This is comments (and surprisingly immature comments at that) which would be better suited for a religious debate, not a comic book discussion thread

Originally posted by willRules
I agree, quoting Douglas Adams always comes close to being religious forum fodder

Douglas Adams > Christianity

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, but Marvel's TOAA has never claimed to be the Creator behind anything except the Marvel Omniverse (or multiverse/whatever-verse). Western images of God would have him as the Creator of the entire Omniverse, which would include the fictional Marvel universe.

Even based on fictional asumptions, not actual theology, "God" has the advantage because we don't know for certain that there's another Omniverse above ours, and we're just a creation of one of its inhabitants. We do know that about TOAA/Stan Lee so it's a non-fight. I think you may be reading into this too much Digi.

All I think the Thread Starter is saying is that TOAA has been shown un panel to be Jack KIrby and Stan Lee.

He is saying if those guys represent Marvel and they believe in God(which they do/did) then wouldn't that mean TOAA would also worship God as TOAA is supposed to be represented by people that do.

At least I think that is what he was saying.


Although since God is the supreme being in DC wouldn't that mean DC hs power over both itself and Marvel

^ that is exactly what I meant. TOAA is supreme because he/it is not a part of the creation. He/it actually makes the comic. So if TOAA believes God made them and creation, then that means God is above TOAA.

Wish Mr. M was around here for this argument. Oh well.

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
^ that is exactly what I meant. TOAA is supreme because he/it is not a part of the creation. He/it actually makes the comic. So if TOAA believes God made them and creation, then that means God is above TOAA.

Wish Mr. M was around here for this argument. Oh well.

It doesn't go like that, because there is no proof that the god that Kirby/Lee believe in exists.

Also, according to your logic someone would have to be stronger than Jack/Kirby to be above the TOAA, but anyone who's strong enough to rip apart a comic is above the TOAA. In Jack/Kirby's mind God might be above the fictional character created by them. To me however, they're both fictional, ridiculous and possess no power at all

Whether He's real or not has no bearing in comparison to fictional beings.

Originally posted by Astner
How can God be all powerful and good, when there is so much pain and suffering in the world?
- Either he's isn't completely good, all powerful or both.


Did you know that 73,4% of the Americans rather believe in the Bible than what has been scientifical proven?
Still most Americans haven't read it, they just have a Bible at home.
It's most likely that the Bible is an old fiction which have awaken thoughts.
You can't prove it wrong, but then again you cannot prove Hans and Greta wrong either.

To say that God >> Writer = TOAA
Is like saying Joe Public = Writer >> Superman
So why do some wish that they were Superman?

Not to mention that God from the bible both the new and old testament is terribly flawed.

It's stuff like this that will get the thread closed. Keep it comics, because this is on a short leash anyway.

Originally posted by llagrok
Douglas Adams > Christianity

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Most people interpret Marvel's Supreme Being, the TOAA, to be one of a few things:
-the Marvel company
-the Editor
-the Writer

Now holding true with this idea, Christian God created Man and the Universe. The -real- universe in which TOAA resides.

If TOAA, Stan Lee/the Editor of Marvel/whatever, believes in this God, that essentially means God is more powerful than TOAA.

Now to some this seems ridiculous. Of course God is above a fictional concept. But to some, God is just a fictional concept to be used as such in versus debates. So i'm going with that idea though I personally believe in Him.

I think this is a good idea for a nice topic. I'd like to hear what other people think.



How do you know the Christian God is real ?



Christianity only exists on Earth, as far as we know.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It's stuff like this that will get the thread closed. Keep it comics, because this is on a short leash anyway.



That's what this thread is a trap for. Why are we bringing religion into comics ? This thread is rediculous !

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
That's what this thread is a trap for. Why are we bringing religion into comics ? This thread is rediculous !

And this is overracting. Is hasn't caused problems yet, and there's actually legit (though strange) comic-related discussion going on in this thread. We don't need cries for closing it when they aren't warranted. Believe me when I say I'm keeping track of this thread. If it jumps the shark, it's gone.

God and TOAA are not the same in thanos the end which is a unvierse that exists in the MU TOAA couldnt do nothing to prevent armageddon God does not have such problems

Originally posted by DigiMark007
And this is overracting. Is hasn't caused problems yet, and there's actually legit (though strange) comic-related discussion going on in this thread. We don't need cries for closing it when they aren't warranted. Believe me when I say I'm keeping track of this thread. If it jumps the shark, it's gone.


I did not ask for it to be closed, but is a trap. Or atleast will become one.


This thread is going to have non-stop religious vs atheist perspectives, and watch...it will end up being a "God does exist" vs "God doesn't exist" fiesta.


The opening statement itself poses a problem. Claiming that the Biblical God is more powerful than TOAA....because one exists and the other doesn't....


Just answer me this, if I am wrong: What is the point of this thread ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I did not ask for it to be closed, but is a trap. Or atleast will become one.


This thread is going to have non-stop religious vs atheist perspectives, and watch...it will end up being a "God does exist" vs "God doesn't exist" fiesta.


The opening statement itself poses a problem. Claiming that the Biblical God is more powerful than TOAA....because one exists and the other doesn't....


Just answer me this, if I am wrong: What is the point of this thread ?

It hasn't gotten to that point yet, nor will it because I'll close it before then. So e'd probably be smart to stop assuming that it will devolve into a closable thread and merely wait to see if it does. As it is, discussion has mostly died out so I honestly doubt much good or bad will come of it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It hasn't gotten to that point yet, nor will it because I'll close it before then. So e'd probably be smart to stop assuming that it will devolve into a closable thread and merely wait to see if it does. As it is, discussion has mostly died out so I honestly doubt much good or bad will come of it.


Eh...I kinda stopped caring

THe biblical GOD is soooooooooooooo much stronger TOAA had a flaw in 616 and THANOs was able to become TOAA.


---biblical GODis more powerful than all o his creation combined could ever amount to.

---in fact GOD could destroy even TOAA with a thought.