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They're my favorite. Let the hating begin.

I've been to 2 of their concerts....when I was like 15 lol Since then I've discovered real music. No offense.

Yes, you did mean offense. ICP has a very mature message and the way they presented it was well thought out and very creative.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Yes, you did mean offense. ICP has a very mature message and the way they presented it was well thought out and very creative.

He didn't mean offense. Whether or not you TOOK offense is no fault of his.

-AC

He spoke about ICP like they were not real music, just because he does not like them anymore.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
He spoke about ICP like they were not real music, just because he does not like them anymore.

Subjectivity, ya mug.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Subjectivity, ya mug. Lol, you called me a mug. That's cool. Sorry if I'm being a little defensive.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Yes, you did mean offense. ICP has a very mature message and the way they presented it was well thought out and very creative.

They are a gimmick. How can you take them seriously? I mean the only reason I listened to it when I was younger is because it was funny (at the time anyway.). Rapping about dead bodies, necrophilia, Stabbing people, drinking faygo, nailing fat chicks, etc. is not a mature thought out way of presenting any message. The only guy who had any talent musically was Mike E. Clark, and it wasn't like he was all that great.

You can like what you want. I am just saying what is true. Also you expected this so why get upset when it happens?

Then you don't actually know their very mature, well thought out message that was presented in a unique and creative way. Listen to the album The Wraith: Shangi La.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Then you don't actually know their very mature, well thought out message that was presented in a unique and creative way. Listen to the album The Wraith: Shangi La.

Just what is their message. I've only heard one song from them. However, I remember seeing an interview of one of the members on the news and he was signing autographs and he asked what one kid's age was. He replied 12. He was then asked if his balls had dropped. The kid didn't know what he was talking about. The interview started out like this:
Interviewer: Why do you think it was a good idea to ask that young boy about his testicles?

ICP guy: Well... uhh... *nervous chuckle*... I didn't even know what it meant til I was older...

Interviewer: So why did you think he should know what it meant?

ICP: Well, uuhh...


Yep, real mature.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Then you don't actually know their very mature, well thought out message that was presented in a unique and creative way. Listen to the album The Wraith: Shangi La.

Wasn't that the album where they couldn't figure out how to tie up the concept, so they copped out and said "Yeah we're religious.", causing all their fans to split?

Wiki says so.

-AC

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Then you don't actually know their very mature, well thought out message that was presented in a unique and creative way. Listen to the album The Wraith: Shangi La.

I've heard enough ICP to know exactly what they are. I had almost every one of their albums at one point. I don't need to listen to anything.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wasn't that the album where they couldn't figure out how to tie up the concept, so they copped out and said "Yeah we're religious.", causing all their fans to split?

Wiki says so.

-AC Lol, if that is literally what wiki says, it's spewing more of its bullshit. Wiki is not reliable. If you really look hard at their music, then you'll see the religous message was always there.

They paint their faces, they spread a religious message, their lyrics are abysmal.

JesusIsAlive spreads a religious message, it doesn't make the lad an intelligent and righteous influence, he's the same as ICP; a prick that's given too much attention.

Yes, yes, I seem to recall Bugz on My Nutz has textual resonances with Ephesians.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Yes, yes, I seem to recall Bugz on My Nutz has textual resonances with Ephesians.

Yeah and "Redneck Hoe" is based off of Mother Mary....

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Lol, if that is literally what wiki says, it's spewing more of its bullshit. Wiki is not reliable. If you really look hard at their music, then you'll see the religous message was always there.

You still haven't replied to my post. What is their message and how do they present it in a mature manner, while pretending to be hip hop clowns?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You still haven't replied to my post. What is their message and how do they present it in a mature manner, while pretending to be hip hop clowns? I didn't see it. Also, where the hell did you get that "interview". The web does shit like that all the time, make up fake stories about ICP.

I am WAY too lazy to post all of the ways the message is presented, but I have a great link that will tell you all about it, it's by some guy who's not even a Juggalo, but knows alot about ICP, the title of the articale thing is called "An Intelligent Look at the Insane Clown Posse".

And Chills, JIA is a bible pushing ass hole, I hardly see a similarity.

Anyway, here is the link(It's a long article just so you know):


http://www.paoracle.com/?archive=77

icp isnt music. there 2 homosexuals in clown get ups and allways talking about giving chickens head.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I didn't see it. Also, where the hell did you get that "interview". The web does shit like that all the time, make up fake stories about ICP.


It wasn't an article. The interview was on my television on the local news. I think ICP was touring in my town and they decided to have a chat with one of the members. In fact, we got to see the clip of the Insane Clown expressing his interest in the testicular development of a young boy.

I skimmed the article, because I'm waaaayyyy too lazy to read all of that. All I got from it was that they were wiggers.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I skimmed the article, because I'm waaaayyyy too lazy to read all of that. All I got from it was that they were wiggers.

Hardly fair.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hardly fair.

-AC

What's not fair? I didn't judge them or anything. All I could remember from the article was that they were wiggers.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
What's not fair? I didn't judge them or anything. All I could remember from the article was that they were wiggers.

If you're gonna diss someone at least read the article.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you're gonna diss someone at least read the article.

-AC

I dissed them based on the interview I saw. For all I care, they would have a strong, sincere, and positive message in their music, but I can't see it past their gimmicks.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I dissed them based on the interview I saw. For all I care, they would have a strong, sincere, and positive message in their music, but I can't see it past their gimmicks.

Fair point.

-AC

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I dissed them based on the interview I saw. For all I care, they would have a strong, sincere, and positive message in their music, but I can't see it past their gimmicks. Because you didn't read it. I'll give you a hint, if you want to actually know the message, skip to The Wraith: Shangri La. And to PiruBlood, all you probably listen to is that shitty mainstream rap. ICP make the lyrics, Shaggy2Dope makes the beats(well, he and Mike E. Clark do), and Violent J can play an instrument, the guitar.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
And to PiruBlood, all you probably listen to is that shitty mainstream rap.

ICP is mainstream rap that many average joes consider shitty.

Also, I don't feel like putting time and effort into reading an extensive article about a group of people I have no interest in learning about. If they want to be taken seriously and recognized as serious people with a serious message, they should try a different, more direct way of showing it.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
ICP is mainstream rap that many average joes consider shitty.

Also, I don't feel like putting time and effort into reading an extensive article about a group of people I have no interest in learning about. If they want to be taken seriously and recognized as serious people with a serious message, they should try a different, more direct way of showing it. ICP is underground, as they are seldomly on TV or the radio, tho for an underground band they are very well known and liked(and hated). If you didn't want to know, why the f*ck did you ask?

ICP is mainstream. It's certainly not underground; don't be stupid.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
ICP is underground, as they are seldomly on TV or the radio, tho for an underground band they are very well known and liked(and hated). If you didn't want to know, why the f*ck did you ask?

I want you to tell me their message. I don't want to read a huge article in order to find it. That would take effort

As for ICP being underground:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! *sniff* Oh Gods, my rips hurt! I think something ruptured!

Come, now. ICP are very well known and are in no way "underground." Amon Amarth is less known than ICP by a long shot, but I don't consider them underground, either.

Insane Clown Posse are very much a cult group.

It's easy to feel that a band or group are well known when you're over-exposed to them.

Over here, in England, Tool are still pretty unknown to the mainstream, but people from America scoff at that notion because they are big there.

-AC

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I want you to tell me their message. I don't want to read a huge article in order to find it. That would take effort

As for ICP being underground:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! *sniff* Oh Gods, my rips hurt! I think something ruptured!

Come, now. ICP are very well known and are in no way "underground." Amon Amarth is less known than ICP by a long shot, but I don't consider them underground, either. Being underground is not about how well known you are mate. It's about developing a loyal following(Juggalos) and not being recognized by the mainstream.

I'll try to summarize the message the best I can. ICP have been known for their violent and vulgar lyrics, that have been critisized by many. But there often is a hidden message, in most of their songs, the people being killed are greedy people and bigots, people who ICP generally dislike, and voice their displeasure about such practices. Also, in their albums, you will find songs that do indeed have a spiritual message, like Killing Fields in Riddlebox is about their personal view on what hell is like, and is done in a way to put him in hell(so it's like telling a story) as he goes thru what hell uis like, he also explains reasons why he's there, like in the verse "I'd steal from the poor, I'd laugh at the sick, but in the killing fields you get your f*ckin neck ripped". Other songs like Hall of Illusions, tho violent, it is a song telling a story of punishing people who have done wrong(like beating your wife) with illusions of what life could have been for them had they been just, before they are tossed in hell. Other songs like Pass me By are very direct on the message, it is a song about going to heaven. It wasn't until The Wraith: Shangri La, was the message fully revealed, that this whole time they followed God, and have been preaching him the whole time, under the moniker The Dark Carnival. Tho it would be important to realize that what they did is by no means an actual religion, just a set of moral beliefs that can be added to almost any religion.

On a side note, why do you think ICP are wiggers? Because the way they dress reflects hip hop culture?

I fail to see how dressing like clowns reflects hip hop culture.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I fail to see how dressing like clowns reflects hip hop culture.

-AC Actually only the make up is that of a clown, a demented evil clown at that.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Being underground is not about how well known you are mate. It's about developing a loyal following(Juggalos) and not being recognized by the mainstream.

I'll try to summarize the message the best I can. ICP have been known for their violent and vulgar lyrics, that have been critisized by many. But there often is a hidden message, in most of their songs, the people being killed are greedy people and bigots, people who ICP generally dislike, and voice their displeasure about such practices. Also, in their albums, you will find songs that do indeed have a spiritual message, like Killing Fields in Riddlebox is about their personal view on what hell is like, and is done in a way to put him in hell(so it's like telling a story) as he goes thru what hell uis like, he also explains reasons why he's there, like in the verse "I'd steal from the poor, I'd laugh at the sick, but in the killing fields you get your f*ckin neck ripped". Other songs like Hall of Illusions, tho violent, it is a song telling a story of punishing people who have done wrong(like beating your wife) with illusions of what life could have been for them had they been just, before they are tossed in hell. Other songs like Pass me By are very direct on the message, it is a song about going to heaven. It wasn't until The Wraith: Shangri La, was the message fully revealed, that this whole time they followed God, and have been preaching him the whole time, under the moniker The Dark Carnival. Tho it would be important to realize that what they did is by no means an actual religion, just a set of moral beliefs that can be added to almost any religion.

On a side note, why do you think ICP are wiggers? Because the way they dress reflects hip hop culture?

Alright, then. I'll take your word for it. However, they ARE recognized by the mainstream. Just about everyone, fan or not, has at least heard of ICP. And I say they are wiggers, because that's what the article said. A bunch of white kids, emulating hip hop culture, and pretending to be a street gang. Wiggers

Anyone can portray that kind of message though, Violent2. Plus, when it's done in an awful fashion, using pretty run of the mill lyrics like that, it's nothing more than ordinary at best.

If you want to see the messages that can be spread through art forms, I suggest you broaden your horizons. Pick up some Blake or something.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Alright, then. I'll take your word for it. However, they ARE recognized by the mainstream. Just about everyone, fan or not, has at least heard of ICP. And I say they are wiggers, because that's what the article said. A bunch of white kids, emulating hip hop culture, and pretending to be a street gang. Wiggers Oh, that was when they were just kids who recently moved to Southwest Detroit. They formed a gang called "Inner City Posse", and threw themselves in with the other inner city gains of Detroit, which was not a good idea lol, alot of their friends were run out of town and some died, til only a few members were left, ICP included. They don't deny this part of their lives.

I admit it. I've been listening to a lot of ICP lately.


I used to be a huge juggalo, including the obligatory tattoo. Then I quit listening to them after the Shangri La album bullshit, because of the stupid f*cking "the Dark Carnival is God" schtick.

Now, I'm not nearly the fan I was, but still do like their music.

Originally posted by Impediment
I admit it. I've been listening to a lot of ICP lately.


I used to be a huge juggalo, including the obligatory tattoo. Then I quit listening to them after the Shangri La album bullshit, because of the stupid f*cking "the Dark Carnival is God" schtick.

Now, I'm not nearly the fan I was, but still do like their music. If you look at their music, the message has always been there.

True, but I feel it was a cop out to the whole Dark Carnival aspect. Not that I was a "believer", but I acknowledged it. This is me, speaking as a staunch atheist.

The only thing I like from them is "F.uck The World", for the obvious reason that it's hilarious.

Thought that was a Turbonegro song? Same name n all that I assume.

Originally posted by Impediment
True, but I feel it was a cop out to the whole Dark Carnival aspect. Not that I was a "believer", but I acknowledged it. This is me, speaking as a staunch atheist. Well, as an atheist it would make sense that you wouldn't like it. And F*ck the World is one of their better songs, but even it has a deeper meaning. People often misunderstand this song. In it, Violent J curses virtually everything, high and low, absurd and plausible, saying "f*ck" 93 (or more) times. The point of the song comes in at the very final phrase, after mindless cursing of everything under the sun, then J brings it all together in the very final phrase of the song... "and f*ck Violent J". The point of the song being that you can curse everything in the world, but it the end it doesn't even matter.

Wow that's so deep....

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Well, as an atheist it would make sense that you wouldn't like it. And F*ck the World is one of their better songs, but even it has a deeper meaning. People often misunderstand this song. In it, Violent J curses virtually everything, high and low, absurd and plausible, saying "f*ck" 93 (or more) times. The point of the song comes in at the very final phrase, after mindless cursing of everything under the sun, then J brings it all together in the very final phrase of the song... "and f*ck Violent J". The point of the song being that you can curse everything in the world, but it the end it doesn't even matter.

Compared to

''To see a World in a grain of sand,
And Heaven in a wild flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour. ''*

*An actual religiously themed message.

Yeah it seems to me if you wanted a religious message you'd find something better than two retards with filthy mouths/minds to deliver it to you. Don't drink the kool aid man.

Personally, I don't know why people hate ICP so much. Musically I perfer them over a lot of other rappers. Lyrically they talk about dumb horror, midnless killings, necrophilia then turn around and rapp against drug use, wife beating and preach human harmony. Well in my opinion...it's not not that bad considering other rappers (that people find respectable) just talk about "cheddar", "bitches/hoez", "bling", "capp'n niggaz" and make up dumb words like "crunk" and "sho' shizzle". I mean really, sometimes I think people just hate ICP for the sake of hating them.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Personally, I don't know why people hate ICP so much. Musically I perfer them over a lot of other rappers. Lyrically they talk about dumb horror, midnless killings, necrophilia then turn around and rapp against drug use, wife beating and preach human harmony. Well in my opinion...it's not not that bad considering other rappers (that people find respectable) just talk about "cheddar", "bitches/hoez", "bling", "capp'n niggaz" and make up dumb words like "crunk" and "sho' shizzle". I mean really, sometimes I think people just hate ICP for the sake of hating them.

...or because their musical talents are questionable at best?

In other words they suck.

Originally posted by Pezmerga
...or because their musical talents are questionable at best?

In other words they suck.

Well that can be said about a lot of rappers. What makes ICP any worse?

Nothing. we are discussing ICP not other rappers.

Originally posted by Pezmerga
Nothing. we are discussing ICP not other rappers.

Well, you have to bring a standard or gague to judge by when you talk about "musical talent". You brought up their lack musical abilities, so I pointed out that a lot of rappers lack musical ability.

Originally posted by Pezmerga
...or because their musical talents are questionable at best?

In other words they suck. ICP make their own lyrics, Shaggy2Dope makes the beats(with Mike E. Clark), Shaggy is a good DJ, and Violent J can play guitar.

That doesn't really refute what he said.

How many rappers do you know that can do all that? Also, ICP are self made, going from making music in a basement to having a multi-artist record label.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
How many rappers do you know that can do all that? Also, ICP are self made, going from making music in a basement to having a multi-artist record label.

That doesn't make them good.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That doesn't make them good.

-AC They IMO are.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
They IMO are.

Yes, but them doing what you said does not mean they are good.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, but them doing what you said does not mean they are good.

-AC IMO, it does.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
IMO, it does.

So if Britney Spears played instruments and produced her own music, and it sounded the same as it does now, you'd say she's good?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So if Britney Spears played instruments and produced her own music, and it sounded the same as it does now, you'd say she's good?

-AC It won't happen.

It doesn't need to.

If it did, would you say she's good? Even if her music stayed the same?

Or are you afraid to answer.

-AC

If it stayed the same, of course not. ICP's music has changed over the years(not that I don't like the old stuff).

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
If it stayed the same, of course not.

So then simply having the ability to play instruments and produce your own songs doesn't make music better.

So you saying it makes ICP better is bs.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So then simply having the ability to play instruments and produce your own songs doesn't make music better.

So you saying it makes ICP better is bs.

-AC If you can make songs and play an instrument well enough to sell CDs, you are automatically more talented than 50Cent, who doesn't even write his songs(he sometimes adds a little in, but that's it). I have a question, why do you find it necessary to try to make a debate out of everything?

Why do you find it necessary to come to a discussions board and not expect discussions?

I was curious, I asked.

You said ICP doing such things made their music good, this can't be the case if you don't believe it makes someone's music better.

-AC

I've regained an interest in ICP lately. I've been listening to them all day today. Why? I dunno.

bEemuqMcKCM&e

This made me lolz.

only song i thought was catchy was "chicken huntin"

Icp is and always will be 1 of the greatest underground Ben's of all time because they came from nothing made it theirselves and got to were they are on their own merit that's what makes the great

Bands*