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I was one of the freaks that had read the trilogy twice, The Simarillion, and various other books (Lost Tales, etc.) by about my freshman year of high school, then added biographies of Tolkien's life and a few of his non-Middle Earth writings shortly thereafter.

In short, I had it bad.

Now, for the record, I love the movies. Possibly my favorite series ever, and RotK is up there as one of favorites period. So I'm not complaining.

But.

The "but" is that the movies made it mainstream. Suddenly people knew (for example) who Elrond was. I actually saw him at a Halloween party a couple years ago. They still couldn't tell you his involvement in pre Third Age wars, how he's actually related to Aragorn via some insanely distant relatives, etc. They've never heard of Morgoth, the Sindarin dialect, or any number of other obscure-but-cool bits of Tolkien lore.

Basically, there's now a new breed of "watered-down" fanboys/fangirls. And as a result, my fandom has decreased. It's almost like I resent them for making me less of a dork.

...I get the same annoyance when I get into a discussion about Spider-Man (it happens a lot with me ), and someone thinks he knows what's up from only watching the movies.

...

Anyone else experience this? It could be with LotR's or any other franchise.

First of all Digi i understand where your coming from with your complaints regarding the watered down new fans. However, I am Tolkien super freak, Ive read the Sil, Children of Hurin, the Hobbit, LOTR, and the encyclopedia of Middle Earth, and not even I knew that Elrond and Aragorn were related. I would love to hear the line that makes them related. If i had to take a guess i would say its through Elronds father Earendil whos father was Tuor i believe, but Ive never read anything where it acutally states that they are related.

Anyway, Im not really bothered by people who are casual fans. I have my things in which Im not a hardcore fanatic. You cant blame people for not being as involved in a subject as we are about Tolkien or comics for that matter. Im just glad Tolkiens writing has finally recieved the worldwide fame and recongition it deserves. Not that it wasnt extremely successful before the movies.

Originally posted by nimbus006
and not even I knew that Elrond and Aragorn were related. I would love to hear the line that makes them related. If i had to take a guess i would say its through Elronds father Earendil whos father was Tuor i believe, but Ive never read anything where it acutally states that they are related.

Aragorn is distantly related to Elrond (and hence Arwen, et al.) because he is descended from Elros, the first king of Númenor, who was the brother of Elrond.

BTW: I agree, to an extent. The people who revel in the story but refuse to delve deeper annoy me greatly, because they'll never understand the true depth of the stories and their characters. The people who think they understand the story at all because they've seen the films are even worst.

Y'know, it's completely understandable to be a little "irked" by the mainstream appeal Lord of the Rings has, all of Tolkien's works in fact; it's not usually mainstream terriotory. But you as your self said DigiMark; they are brilliant movies, and although I prefer Fellowship Of the Ring over the others, we have just got to keep seeing them as a boon, as a gift and be grateful that such a talented director as Jackson had the nerve to touch such noble texts!

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not complaining in a larger sense about the whole thing. I'm happy the movie happened. I just wanted to use that to get to the phenomenon I'm talking about in this thread.

So it might be a contradiction, but I feel justified in loving the movie but being irked that people think they are hardcore fans because, I dunno, they watched all the bonus "making of" features on the DVDs or something.

Casual fans are what let you become a super-hardcore-geek-a-fanatic.

Casual fans support the franchise, hardcore fans are in VERY short supply in comparison...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I was one of the freaks that had read the trilogy twice, The Simarillion, and various other books (Lost Tales, etc.) by about my freshman year of high school, then added biographies of Tolkien's life and a few of his non-Middle Earth writings shortly thereafter.

In short, I had it bad.

Now, for the record, I love the movies. Possibly my favorite series ever, and RotK is up there as one of favorites period. So I'm not complaining.

But.

The "but" is that the movies made it mainstream. Suddenly people knew (for example) who Elrond was. I actually saw him at a Halloween party a couple years ago. They still couldn't tell you his involvement in pre Third Age wars, how he's actually related to Aragorn via some insanely distant relatives, etc. They've never heard of Morgoth, the Sindarin dialect, or any number of other obscure-but-cool bits of Tolkien lore.

Basically, there's now a new breed of "watered-down" fanboys/fangirls. And as a result, my fandom has decreased. It's almost like I resent them for making me less of a dork.

...I get the same annoyance when I get into a discussion about Spider-Man (it happens a lot with me ), and someone thinks he knows what's up from only watching the movies.

...

Anyone else experience this? It could be with LotR's or any other franchise.

i know exactly what you mean, i've had the same experiences (not with tolkien mind you, as i've only read a few of the books), and you're sort of like, 'you dont need to tell me how good they are, i was there before all this shit happened'

and to this day i despise people who treat comic book movies as an authority over the comic characters...

Originally posted by pr1983
i know exactly what you mean, i've had the same experiences (not with tolkien mind you, as i've only read a few of the books), and you're sort of like, 'you dont need to tell me how good they are, i was there before all this shit happened'

and to this day i despise people who treat comic book movies as an authority over the comic characters...

Heh. That's a classic one. No one can debate anything except from the movie versions, and it's usually a bit annoying. A couple of my friends know better though, and they have a passing interest in comics. They'll flat-out ask me who wins in a fight, and don't bother arguing because they know they're out of their league. One of my favorite moments was when a friend of ours stated that Green Lantern could beat anyone. I was like "er, no" and she was like "yes"....my face became serious. The two I mentioned averted their eyes in a painful expression like someone was about to be raped.

...good times.

They have other realms of epic geekdom where I do the same with them though, so it's a reciprocal thing.

Worst ,I've had like this was when at the end of Fellowship Of The Ring, the bloke behind me said ''is that it? Is that all that happens?'' The lad didn't even know where the movies came from. I was in the height of my Tolkien obsession at the time, so I was close to turning round and shouting in his face.

I worked at a movie theater and some little kid told me LotR's was just copying off of Harry Potter.

Hahaha, I bet it took a lot of self control not to shout.

Originally posted by Soljer
Casual fans are what let you become a super-hardcore-geek-a-fanatic.

Casual fans support the franchise, hardcore fans are in VERY short supply in comparison...

Very well said Soljer. Thats exactly the point im trying to get at. Everyone is a casual fan before they become true fans.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Worst ,I've had like this was when at the end of Fellowship Of The Ring, the bloke behind me said ''is that it? Is that all that happens?'' The lad didn't even know where the movies came from. I was in the height of my Tolkien obsession at the time, so I was close to turning round and shouting in his face.

I understand how you feel, but you shouldn't think that way. Im sure there are movie franchises you have gone to see which you didnt have in depth knowledge about. For example, I was a casual Transformers fan when i was younger, and went to go see the movies and thought they were awesome. Are you going to hang me beause i think the Transformers are really cool, yet i dont know much about them. Just be glad your favorite writer/franchise is getting financial support from the masses. You can only hope those casual fans become true ones because of the movies. I have plently of freinds who were Star Wars freaks, and switched over to Tolkien because of the movies and little push from me i might add. I was happy to convert them from casual to somewhat knowledgeable Tolkien fans (most of them read LOTR and the Hobbit, and one even went on to read the Sil)

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Hahaha, I bet it took a lot of self control not to shout.

Not to shout? Hell, it took control not to stab him with a pen.

I had never read anything by Tolkien before the movies came out. Now I am a big fan and I've read The Silmarillion, the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and the Book of Lost Tales. So I am really glad the movies came out.

You see how the movies can help casual fans transition into real fans. Thats nice to hear.

I have become a little irked that some of you hold some significance for parading around as a "true "hardcore" fan".

Originally posted by exanda kane
I have become a little irked that some of you hold some significance for parading around as a "true "hardcore" fan".

I'm not parading anything. And I don't begrudge fans that aren't as "hardcore". But it ruins some of the fun for me when something is so mainstream....that's all.

Yet it was always meant to be mainstream.

I don't mind at all. Little of that stuff is particularly important anyway. You can take pride in knowing the fine detail but I think it is a grave error to worry so much about this kind of thing.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Heh. That's a classic one. No one can debate anything except from the movie versions, and it's usually a bit annoying. A couple of my friends know better though, and they have a passing interest in comics. They'll flat-out ask me who wins in a fight, and don't bother arguing because they know they're out of their league. One of my favorite moments was when a friend of ours stated that Green Lantern could beat anyone. I was like "er, no" and she was like "yes"....my face became serious. The two I mentioned averted their eyes in a painful expression like someone was about to be raped.

...good times.

They have other realms of epic geekdom where I do the same with them though, so it's a reciprocal thing.



ive had a few of those moments myself...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I worked at a movie theater and some little kid told me LotR's was just copying off of Harry Potter.



did you kill him?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yet it was always meant to be mainstream.

I don't mind at all. Little of that stuff is particularly important anyway. You can take pride in knowing the fine detail but I think it is a grave error to worry so much about this kind of thing.

Worry, no. I think maybe I'm coming across as more upset than I really am. I guess when many people enjoy it, it just destroys the facade of being a geek, which is something I embrace, not shun. Like if Authority comics were suddenly as popular as Spider-Man...my Doctor Halloween costume would be normal rather than dorky and obscure, and the delicious fun on my own personal in-joke (whilst other laugh at me in mockery, likely ) would be lost.

Originally posted by pr1983
did you kill him?

Shot him a death stare and considered giving them tickets to the wrong movie, but no. To this day he lives, spreading his vile message across the land.

*weeps*

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Shot him a death stare and considered giving them tickets to the wrong movie, but no. To this day he lives, spreading his vile message across the land.

*weeps*

cry

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I was one of the freaks that had read the trilogy twice, The Simarillion, and various other books (Lost Tales, etc.) by about my freshman year of high school, then added biographies of Tolkien's life and a few of his non-Middle Earth writings shortly thereafter.

In short, I had it bad.

Now, for the record, I love the movies. Possibly my favorite series ever, and RotK is up there as one of favorites period. So I'm not complaining.

But.

The "but" is that the movies made it mainstream. Suddenly people knew (for example) who Elrond was. I actually saw him at a Halloween party a couple years ago. They still couldn't tell you his involvement in pre Third Age wars, how he's actually related to Aragorn via some insanely distant relatives, etc. They've never heard of Morgoth, the Sindarin dialect, or any number of other obscure-but-cool bits of Tolkien lore.

Basically, there's now a new breed of "watered-down" fanboys/fangirls. And as a result, my fandom has decreased. It's almost like I resent them for making me less of a dork.

...I get the same annoyance when I get into a discussion about Spider-Man (it happens a lot with me ), and someone thinks he knows what's up from only watching the movies.

...

Anyone else experience this? It could be with LotR's or any other franchise.

yes i know exactly what you mean, especially when it comes to all superhero movies and people try to argue with me

I just take pride in out-geeking ANYONE that tries to face me. and-for the record- Green Lantern can beat anyone.

(FYI- I don't read comics so

JK LOL )

I agree with this to an extent, but disagree as well.

In my opinion, A fanboy is someone who argues in favor of their favorite____ or argue against anyone opposing their favorite _____ to the point of blind stupidity; i.e. ignoring all fact and reason because they like or agree with their favorite ____.


In my opinion, this more defines the movie fans than the actual book fans. I have read much of the history of Middle Earth, and love the Story of Morgoth and Fingolfin and such. I think if anything, the movie actually created a whole breed of fanboys.

That said, I feel it did disenfranchise us "hardcore" fans (which is what I refer to myself as opposed to fanboy) seeing this new breed born, knowing they'd never reach our level of knowledge, yet would fanboyishly argue against us nonetheless.