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Tee battle is between star wars titans, who would win?

the battle occurs on neutral ground.

Luke wins quite comfortably.

Luke at his peak pwns him.

Luke at his peak takes this, revan is doomed.

If Darth Caedus can put up some fight against Luke, Revan can surely do better.

Though Luke will win.

Drew Karpyshyn should write some novels about Revan. Only then we would know better.

Problem is you can't prove that Revan is anywhere near Jacen in lightsaber ability (which is the only way in which Jacen rivals Luke in ability, and the only way he was able to put up a fight against him), not that the fight would necessarily come to a saber duel anyway.

Originally posted by Proteus
Problem is you can't prove that Revan is anywhere near Jacen in lightsaber ability (which is the only way in which Jacen rivals Luke in ability, and the only way he was able to put up a fight against him), not that the fight would necessarily come to a saber duel anyway.
I am not talking about Revan's Light Saber skills over here.

Though Drew made it clear that Revan was a skilled swordsman and that he had such a firm control over his fighting style that it was easy for him to unleash Force attacks during duels.

And as you have already hinted, fights do not necessarily involve long saber duels.

Revan is really, really strong.


Luke is unbeatable one on one.

Revan lost before the battle began. (not saying he is crap cause he is very far from it but luke is just better in the force and in lightsabers)

luke

That is an unsupported claim. Darth Caedus could only contend with an inconceivably reckless and brassed off Luke (think of Kenobi v. Skywalker) in a lightsaber duel. Prove that Revan is superior to Jacen in dueling ability.



Yes, and quite comfortably.



You say this every time. The point is that 'Drew' hasn't, and Revan is still not on par with Luke.

Edit: Wouldn't that be great if the Revan Fan Brigade who voted would be so kind as to offer arguments in favor of him?

HAHAHAHA. Revan Fan Brigade. That's classic.

luke

Luke will win because he's the hero. The battle goes as follows: Luke activates some Dues Ex Machina Bull and automatically gets better in lightsaber dueling and the force than Revan. Luke proceeds to decapitate him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who said that Revan is on par with Luke? No one did because every one knows that no one actually is on par with Luke.

Look at the results of the poll.

There's still kotor fanboys here...

Luke will utterly demolish Revan, what completely ridiculous thread.

Luke takes this obviously, He's got Revan beat in every catagory, Lightsaber, force, all of it. Really, sending Luke against anyone 1v1 is pointless now.

Why are you making an argument for Revan, legend? You were the one in the first place by saying " of cadeus can do this than revan can do that" you seem feel that in EVERY conflict involving Revan you need to reminds of something Revan did/is. Even when you admit he is gonna lose like in this case you seem to feel you need to mention something of his so no one said he sucked.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not arguing about Revan's saber skills but then again you cannot say that he sucked or could not contend with the greatest saber duelists in SW mythos.

Like here for instance you are mentioning his saber skills when no one said they sucked. Rather it is a little bit of a stretch to say he can contend with Luke in saber combat and put up a fight to injure Him like Jacen did. This is the type of stuff that pisses gideon off(and others most likely) because you ALWAYS need to say something about Revan or most kotor characters even when they are going to lose and lose quite comfortably like in here or in the thread regarding HK vs Grievous for example.

Alright well, I don't think Revan is being given enough credit by some people. Yes, he's gonna lose. And yes, it won't be an especially close fight. But Luke is going to work up a significant sweat winning this and I woudn't be surprised if he earned some nice news scars/fake body parts.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Alright well, I don't think Revan is being given enough credit by some people. Yes, he's gonna lose. And yes, it won't be an especially close fight. But Luke is going to work up a significant sweat winning this and I woudn't be surprised if he earned some nice news scars/fake body parts.

Work up a sweet,definitely but earning scars/fake body parts scars maybe but it definitely seems to be pushing it to me that revan make a luke lose a body part and then it would seem like luke would be driven to the limit in that case. And I don't think revan is that good to make luke lose body parts.

Of course, Lumiya gave Luke some scars and new body parts, and she is surely below Revan.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Of course, Lumiya gave Luke some scars and new body parts, and she is surely below Revan.

He lost his arm because he was distracted as to what was happening with Mara Jade. And when Luke was in "kill mode" he destroyed her. Luke would have no distractions here.

Darth Hord nailed it on the head. Twice. I wouldn't have such a problem with SW LeGenD or the KotoR era if he didn't make a habit of cramming in "Revan is very powerful!", "Revan is very smart!", and "Revan is a great Sith!" into every post he makes -- even if he acknowledges that Revan would get WTFpwned, he has to cram that detail in.

We comprehend: Revan's pretty damn uber. No one here has contested that. But are there stronger characters? Yes. Are there smarter characters? Yes. Are there characters with greater achievements? Yes. Are there characters who are have all three on Revan? Yes. And every time you fellate Revan, I make it my personal mission to fellate every other character to make the point.



Actually, it's a canon fact that Revan is less than RotS Yoda and RotS Sidious. It's been argued that they couldn't give Luke -- at this time -- that hard of a fight, so Revan likely won't either.



This is true. However, this was a half-distracted Luke who was using most of his energy trying to keep the bar patrons from killing him (and from Lumiya killing them), as well as fighting Lumiya at the same time. And he still won. Strength for strength? She doesn't register at all, and you know that.

The only way Revan's going to injure Luke is if he uses the circumstances against him: which is fair and legitimate, as Revan is surely -- tactically, at least -- Luke's superior. But is he anything approaching Luke's strength? No.

Originally posted by Gideon
The only way Revan's going to injure Luke is if he uses the circumstances against him: which is fair and legitimate, as Revan is surely -- tactically, at least -- Luke's superior. But is he anything approaching Luke's strength? No.
That is what I am trying to get at, circumstances could very well result in Luke getting injured.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
That is what I am trying to get at, circumstances could very well result in Luke getting injured.

But we can't necessarily rely on that. That Lumiya managed to outwit Luke on one occasion and injure him due to manipulation of circumstances does not suggest that she will always be able to do so, nor that anyone else would. Emperor Palpatine manipulated the galaxy for two decades -- outwitting supremely powerful Force-users and experienced warriors -- and he's far closer to Luke than Revan is. If we use this line of logic, Palpatine will pwn Luke and anyone else every time simply because, not only is he comparable to Luke in strength, he's a hell of a lot smarter.

I'm not saying Revan will win, only that he, and many other people, have a chance of injuring Luke.

unless luke is trying to kill them cause when he wanted lumiya dead he killed her........... easily.

I dont really see the point of putting Luke in a 1on1 match with anyone. He'll always win, most of them quite easily I might add. Man, if I were only an admin here, I would add another rule stating that Luke should NOT be used in a 1 on 1 match. He can only be used if more than 1 combatant is against him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, it's a canon fact that Revan is less than RotS Yoda and RotS Sidious. It's been argued that they couldn't give Luke -- at this time -- that hard of a fight, so Revan likely won't either.

Not questioning you or anything, but Im curious can you show me this canon fact or atleast point me to a source.

Revan of course! XD

Originally posted by -Blasmaster-
Not questioning you or anything, but Im curious can you show me this canon fact or atleast point me to a source.

It pretty much goes like this ROTS Sidious is called the most powerful sith lord ever. And ROTS is called the most devastating foe the darkside has ever seen.(or something along those lines) Which means that post kotor revan (who is a jedi) can't be more powerful than yoda who was able to stalemate the most powerful sith lord ever. So by that line of thought he isnt more powerful.

Originally posted by -Blasmaster-
Not questioning you or anything, but Im curious can you show me this canon fact or atleast point me to a source.

You're entitled to question me whenever you please. As for your answer, in the RotS novelization, Yoda is called "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" by the omniscient narrator.

Originally posted by Gideon
Darth Hord nailed it on the head. Twice. I wouldn't have such a problem with SW LeGenD or the KotoR era if he didn't make a habit of cramming in "Revan is very powerful!", "Revan is very smart!", and "Revan is a great Sith!" into every post he makes -- even if he acknowledges that Revan would get WTFpwned, he has to cram that detail in.
Revan getting WTFpwned is a judgment that you cannot use in this case. You or anybody else don't know enough about Revan's abilities. But keeping Revan's feats in mind, it is hard to say that he will get WTFpwned in a fight.

You have to look at what Revan did on the Star Forge.

Revan's performance on the Star Forge:

"It is a place which was already filled with strong dark side presence and this would give the Sith stationed over there additional bonus.

Then when the fight began, Revan first destroyed an entire army of SF battle droids. Those droids were powerful enough to even deal with the Jedi as even Malak was surprised when they were wiped out but then he acknowledged that it happened only because of Revan. His two other companions were not powerful enough to do so by themselves.

Then Malak decided to send every thing at his disposal against Revan. Even then he doubted that it would stop Revan and would instead only slow him down. And we know that what happened to Malak's Sith and not to forget that they were being aided by Bastilla's powerful BM.

Then Revan reached Bastilla and overcame her singlehandedly even when the Star Forge was directly replenishing her energies.

After that he once again had to face a large numbers of SF battle droids by himself and they were being constantly generated by SF droid generators and still Revan overcame the odds.

Then finally, Revan faced the DLOTS who had made certain preparations that made him nearly unstoppable and despite of that, we know that who came out victorious."

NOTE: This is Revan who does not remembers his knowledge fully yet.

So we are talking about a person who managed to do all this inside the stronghold of the Sith and you think that he will get WTFpwned? Show me a "combat feat" of Darth Caedus that surpasses Revan's performance on the Star Forge.

OK! I admit that Revan would loose in this fight but even then you cannot say that he would go down "very easily." His abilities are not to be under-estimated.

Originally posted by Gideon
We comprehend: Revan's pretty damn uber. No one here has contested that. But are there stronger characters? Yes. Are there smarter characters? Yes. Are there characters with greater achievements? Yes. Are there characters who are have all three on Revan? Yes. And every time you fellate Revan, I make it my personal mission to fellate every other character to make the point.
Once again! Very few characters have surpassed Revan.

You and some others do not give enough credit to Revan. This is why I argue for him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, it's a canon fact that Revan is less than RotS Yoda and RotS Sidious. It's been argued that they couldn't give Luke -- at this time -- that hard of a fight, so Revan likely won't either.
Again this means something?

Power is not the only deciding factor in fights. A character grows or changes with passage of time.

Even then Revan has shown us that he is damn good in combat and his feats are amazing.

You seem to forget that Mara Jade Skywalker was going to defeat Darth Caedus even when Caedus was more powerful. Her smartness is what gave her massive advantage. But then again Caedus was not an idiot either and manage to win through a cheap shot.

Originally posted by Gideon
The only way Revan's going to injure Luke is if he uses the circumstances against him: which is fair and legitimate, as Revan is surely -- tactically, at least -- Luke's superior. But is he anything approaching Luke's strength? No.
Now since Revan is very smart, he will most certainly try to take advantage of the circumstances around him to make some gains in the fight. Though Luke is so powerful that he manages to tolerate a lot more then any Jedi could, so he might still win.

Luke is the strongest character in SW mythos. So I don't think that he should be used in 1 on 1 fights any more.

XD

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Show me a "combat feat" of Darth Caedus that surpasses Revan's performance on the Star Forge.


First off let me state that no one here is underestimating Revan like you think.
And you wanted a feat from Jacen Solo well here is one during his duel with Omni. And this speaks for itself.

So Jacen reached that state and was never able to reach it again. Luke and Anakin also reached that state. Interesting how that wasn't the "First time", and that it was a common technique among the Jedi Order during ancient times.

Onimi was a Force user, LeGenD.

Moreover, Jacen literally became one with the Force in that fight

Onimi was a force user? Wtf?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Onimi was a force user? Wtf?

Yup. Onimi was the last Yuuzhan Vong with a connection to the Force, and he used it to manipulate Shimrra.

Interesting. I haven't read those books. I thought all of the Vong were outside the force. I wonder which book I should start with that details the Vong War?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Moreover, Jacen literally became one with the Force in that fight

Fo' realz?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Regarding Jacen vs Onimi:

Jacen defeated Onimi and it is indeed an amazing accomplishment. But you have to keep in mind 3 points here:

1) Onimi is not a Force User. He could not use the Force offensively on Jacen.

2) Jacen had "Wong Sense" ability, which was an added bonus for him.

3) Then Jacen could use the Force to vastly amplify his strength, speed and effectiveness during combat against Onimi and he indeed did so.



Omni was a force user so he too can increase his strength,speed,etc. too



As can Jacen as you have stated.



.

And Jacen was able to badly injure Luke, who has defeated DE Sidious in lightsaber combat.





For like the millionth time I and most of us here know the details of the fight on the star forge. And we know that Revan is among the strongest ever. But there are quite a few others that can beat him . And Jacen is one of them no matter how much you let your kotor fanboyism get in the way.

Lets get one thing straight. Jacen wasn't able to badly injure Luke. Luke saw how him killing Jacen would turn Ben to the darkside so he was hesitating. DE Sidious is superior to Jacen in the force and saber combat.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Lets get one thing straight. Jacen wasn't able to badly injure Luke. Luke saw how him killing Jacen would turn Ben to the darkside so he was hesitating. DE Sidious is superior to Jacen in the force and saber combat.

Jacen did badly injure Luke. Broken ribs, two black eyes, a broken jaw/nose (IIRC), and a dislocated knee.

Originally posted by Gideon
Onimi was a Force user, LeGenD.
This is indeed strange.

Still I don't remember him using lethal Sith techniques that only a DLOTS with exceptional Force Mastery would demonstrate.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Omni was a force user so he too can increase his strength,speed,etc. too
This would indeed help Onimi.

But as I have stated before, prove to me that he could use lethal Sith techniques in combat that only a powerful DLOTS would demonstrate.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
As can Jacen as you have stated.
And also REVAN.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
And Jacen was able to badly injure Luke, who has defeated DE Sidious in lightsaber combat.
You know what? This primitive A > B > C logic is already getting old.

DE Sidious is still more powerful then Darth Caedus. He is the strongest Sith Lord in history. Leia was using her BM ability to help Luke in his fight against Sidious. Her BM effectively caused Sidious's Force Storm to fail to materialize during combat.

And if a canonical fight between Revan and Luke takes place, it won't be WTFpwnage for Revan. I won't be surprised if Luke gets injured in that fight. Though he still would win.

Revan has shown no less combat prowess then Caedus and he is smarter then Caedus. Also do keep in mind his performance in the battle of the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
For like the millionth time I and most of us here know the details of the fight on the star forge. And we know that Revan is among the strongest ever. But there are quite a few others that can beat him . And Jacen is one of them no matter how much you let your kotor fanboyism get in the way.
For like billionth time, you still don't give enough credit to Revan even when you claim to know the details of his performance on the Star Forge. Your LOTF fanboyism gets in your way actually.

Did I said that Revan could not be defeated? NEVER

And prove to me that Jacen (in his current state) is better then Revan. Just because he managed to injure Luke, it does not means that others cannot do so. Luke is not invincible. Though Jacen's saber combat skills are indeed exceptional.

In pure saber combat, he might beat Revan.

Though I would like to know more about Revan's skill in saber combat too before making a more fair judgment. Still we should keep in mind that Revan was also a skilled duelist and hava indeed defeated an another skilled duelist of his age in Light Saber combat (as evident from Duron's vision in Shadows & Light). Thus he would most probably put up a good fight against Jacen even in pure saber combat.

But do not forget that the outcome of fights are not just dependent on power factor. Several other factors play their parts too.

And I would be waiting for the last LOTF Novel aka "Invincible" to arrive and see that how far Jacen would reach in terms of power before making a final judgment. When Jacen will start to perform feats that would match that of Sidious, then I would surely acknowledge that he had surpassed Revan.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jacen did badly injure Luke. Broken ribs, two black eyes, a broken jaw/nose (IIRC), and a dislocated knee.

I know that I've read Inferno. I also know that Luke got distracted by Ben knowing that if he killed Jacen, he'd turn to the darkside. I don't see how this puts Jacen on par with DE Sidious in saber combat.

Originally posted by Gideon
You're entitled to question me whenever you please. As for your answer, in the RotS novelization, Yoda is called "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" by the omniscient narrator.

I was actually expecting something other than that. I already know of that statement. And it has been a source of constant confusion between me and my mates when discussing Yoda's power ranking in the Star War-verse. While it was indeed stated that he was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known", Yoda's showings and that of others don't quite support that statement, bordering on contradiction, really.

But no. I wont discuss it here with you. I just came on this thread in the hopes of reading something important. I'm not gonna be responsible for yet another thread going off-topic like a lot threads do recently. I'll bring this up later in an appropriate time.

luke wins??? i dont think so ,dont any1 saw how strong revan was when he was the Dark Lord???
Revan has better force powers iam pretty sure of that
dueling skills Luke loses totally
when luke is grand master he is like 50 years old
and revan much younger like..... well i dunno but Revan will win.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jacen did badly injure Luke. Broken ribs, two black eyes, a broken jaw/nose (IIRC), and a dislocated knee. Um broken rinds are pretty bad. I know from experience.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
But as I have stated before, prove to me that he could use lethal Sith techniques in combat that only a powerful DLOTS would demonstrate.

You are talking about Jacen here and not Omni right. Well in any case jacen has demonstrated force lightning,mind wiping taking technique,force choke, to name a few and he can sever someone's force connection by touching them, as he did with Ben on the Anakin Solo. Which can pretty scary if he could do that in battle.




I wasn't trying get at that Caedus is better that Sidious (and i apologized if it seems that way) I was trying to get that Luke has been in duels against the best of them in saber combat and emerged the victor and Jacen was able to contend with him in a very brutal duel.






Actually Revan IS my favorite character as I had said in previous threads on this site. I just don't try and overhype a few of revan's feats which you seems to have done. Nor do I cram people with info about him when I know he is beat.





Agreed and I also want to know more about his saber skills but until then there are people that will be put above him if they are close to him in the force and have demonstrated great saber skills.



I am fully aware of that and it has happened a quite a few times in the movies. But here if it is a simple one on one fight then you know as well as i do that we have to go with the character who is more powerful because these duels will probably never occur in a book or anything.


Originally posted by darth gezorko
luke wins??? i dont think so ,dont any1 saw how strong revan was when he was the Dark Lord???
Revan has better force powers iam pretty sure of that
dueling skills Luke loses totally
when luke is grand master he is like 50 years old
and revan much younger like..... well i dunno but Revan will win.

I take it back legend at least you don't say stuff like this. We are aware how strong Revan is as SW Legend has posted in here the details of his duel on the Star Forge. Revan is not better that LUke in any category period. And so what if he is 50? Dooku was latter in age and manage to beat kenobi and anakin in ATOC. Sidious was like 60 in Revenge of the Sith and he took out 3 of the most powerful jedi of the era in seconds.

And as far as broken ribs are concerned it sucks and is very painful. I know because I broke 2 ribs in a car accident 2 years ago and it does restrict your movements. And for Luke to duel still with great efficency speaks greatly for his endurance.

Originally posted by -Blasmaster-
While it was indeed stated that he was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known", Yoda's showings and that of others don't quite support that statement,
Actually it does, Yoda lifting part of a mountain with the force and GL's statement which is a higher level of canon stating that to compete with sidious you have to be on the level of yoda or mace which implies that yodas strength in the force rivals that of sidious whom is already above all other sith lords as several sources stated: TNEC

And the statement of the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known is canon, you cant argue against that.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
You are talking about Jacen here and not Omni right. Well in any case jacen has demonstrated force lightning,mind wiping taking technique,force choke, to name a few and he can sever someone's force connection by touching them, as he did with Ben on the Anakin Solo. Which can pretty scary if he could do that in battle.
I was talking about Onimi here and not Jacen.

Onimi have not demonstrated Force Mastery on the level of a Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I wasn't trying get at that Caedus is better that Sidious (and i apologized if it seems that way) I was trying to get that Luke has been in duels against the best of them in saber combat and emerged the victor and Jacen was able to contend with him in a very brutal duel.
That was a note-worthy effort from Jacen and hence I acknowledge that Jacen has exceptional dueling skills. Though in case of the Force Mastery, Luke is still ahead of him.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Actually Revan IS my favorite character as I had said in previous threads on this site. I just don't try and overhype a few of revan's feats which you seems to have done. Nor do I cram people with info about him when I know he is beat.
I have not overhyped any of Revan's feats in this thread. What he did on the Star Forge is really amazing.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I am fully aware of that and it has happened a quite a few times in the movies. But here if it is a simple one on one fight then you know as well as i do that we have to go with the character who is more powerful because these duels will probably never occur in a book or anything.
It has happened in some EU fights as well. A few examples are:

1) Mara Jade Skywalker vs Darth Caedus (Sacrifice)
2) Jedi Exile and her companions vs Darth Nihilus (KOTOR II)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I was talking about Onimi here and not Jacen.

Onimi have not demonstrated Force Mastery on the level of a Sith Lord.

No but when you combine his force abilities with his vong strength and he can make deadly toxins throughout his body like his fingernails,teeth and blood. So if he were to scratch you poison so that becomes very deadly in a duel especially in close range.(particular in lightsaber duels)



Agreed seeing as how he force pinned Caedus to his chair.





No one said it wasn't but there are others who could do the same in Revan's place. But that still doesn't change the fact Luke will still comfortably beat him. And you have made statements that seem to be you overhyping a characters ability. Like in the HK and Grievous for example.



Yes but in vs. threads we have to go by who is the strongest.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I know that I've read Inferno. I also know that Luke got distracted by Ben knowing that if he killed Jacen, he'd turn to the darkside. I don't see how this puts Jacen on par with DE Sidious in saber combat.
The dislocated knee and broken ribs happen before Ben says anything. And when Ben does distract Luke, it is the dislocated knee that allows Caedus to rejoin the fight.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
No one said it wasn't but there are others who could do the same in Revan's place.
Very few.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
But that still doesn't change the fact Luke will still comfortably beat him.
It will not be WTFpwnage or an easy challenge.

Revan knows some deadly techniques that even Sith Lords would think twice before trying and he could indeed use some of those techniques in combat situations. Now don't blame me for this information. Blame POD for it.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
And you have made statements that seem to be you overhyping a characters ability. Like in the HK and Grievous for example.
What I mentioned in that thread is canon information. It was mean't to show that HK-47 was no joke either. Though Grievous was still better.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Yes but in vs. threads we have to go by who is the strongest.
Not always the smartest thing to do.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
.It will not be WTFpwnage or an easy challenge.

Revan knows some deadly techniques that even Sith Lords would think twice before trying and he could indeed use some of those techniques in combat situations. Now don't blame me for this information. Blame POD for it.

It probably wont be easy but by comfortably I mean that he will be a somewhat tired later on and not badly injured.

Fair enough but you never responded to us again so we assumed you meant HK could take him




So if the duel is one vs. one and there on a neutral setting (like on plains or a field for example) and no one else is around. We have to assume that most powerful win because you can't like this character will become arrogant on the verge of victory and will lose at the last second. That argument would get destroyed. Intelligence might come into play but it is usually not the deciding factor in a duel.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
It probably wont be easy but by comfortably I mean that he will be a somewhat tired later on and not badly injured.
Fair enough!

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Fair enough but you never responded to us again so we assumed you meant HK could take him
Never assume anything about me before I make a conclusion

Originally posted by Darth Hord
So if the duel is one vs. one and there on a neutral setting (like on plains or a field for example) and no one else is around. We have to assume that most powerful win because you can't like this character will become arrogant on the verge of victory and will lose at the last second. That argument would get destroyed. Intelligence might come into play but it is usually not the deciding factor in a duel.
If the setting is completely neutral (like an open plain), then the strongest one will be indeed at advantage.

Whats the point of this poll lol? George Lucas says luke's the best jedi so i guess we shouldnt be debating if Revan wins or loses, it's how he loses and how long he takes to lose. Plus Revan wasn't even at his peak in the time that we was a sith lord, he became stronger after he was redeemed.
Wth, revan will lose there's no denying that but he wont lose fast, he was one of the strongest, smartest and most knowlagable person of Old Sith Wars, if Luke couldnt easily defeat someone like Desann I doubt he could defeat Revan as quickly as you guys would like to think. Probably a not too long, not too short lightsaber battle.

Originally posted by Sith Dude
Whats the point of this poll lol? George Lucas says luke's the best jedi so i guess we shouldnt be debating if Revan wins or loses, it's how he loses and how long he takes to lose. Plus Revan wasn't even at his peak in the time that we was a sith lord, he became stronger after he was redeemed.
Wth, revan will lose there's no denying that but he wont lose fast, he was one of the strongest, smartest and most knowlagable person of Old Sith Wars, if Luke couldnt easily defeat someone like Desann I doubt he could defeat Revan as quickly as you guys would like to think. Probably a not too long, not too short lightsaber battle.

NJO Luke rapes everyone when he tries to kill someone it is almost a forgone conclusion hat the person will die or at least lose the duel. As seen in the previous two legacy books and even before that.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
NJO Luke rapes everyone when he tries to kill someone it is almost a forgone conclusion hat the person will die or at least lose the duel. As seen in the previous two legacy books and even before that.

He can't annihilate everyone. He'd probably own most people and likely beat them all, but there are still a few who can challenge him.

Originally posted by Gideon
He can't annihilate everyone. He'd probably own most people and likely beat them all, but there are still a few who can challenge him.

i know for me i consider rape and own equal so its just a misunderstanding i know people can give him difficulty both the majority will most likely not.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
NJO Luke rapes everyone when he tries to kill someone it is almost a forgone conclusion hat the person will die or at least lose the duel. As seen in the previous two legacy books and even before that.

It's really ironic how you said Luke could rape anyone he tries to kill when i previously stated how he couldn't kill Desann. Also i fully agree with you, Luke is the most powerful jedi and he can beat Revan, but he will not beat one of the most powerful jedi in the kotor era so easily. Also you sort of make Luke look like a god, hes far from it and cannot easily disarm or kill a powerful jedi or sith.

Originally posted by Sith Dude
It's really ironic how you said Luke could rape anyone he tries to kill when i previously stated how he couldn't kill Desann. Also i fully agree with you, Luke is the most powerful jedi and he can beat Revan, but he will not beat one of the most powerful jedi in the kotor era so easily. Also you sort of make Luke look like a god, hes far from it and cannot easily disarm or kill a powerful jedi or sith.

Based on feats? Yes, he is quite a bit ahead of Darth Revan. Based on G-canon narrative, we already can already gauge Revan's relative prowess and skill within the continuity. The Revenge of the Sith novelization makes it explicitly clear that, by that time, Master Yoda was the "most devastatingly powerful foe had ever known" -- making him the de facto strongest light sider and Jedi in history up to that point -- and we know from multiple sources (tNEC, CVD, and the aforementioned novelization) that Darth Sidious possessed the strongest connection and mastery of the dark side of the Force that had been seen in history as well.

Realistically, Luke could defeat either Yoda or Sidious (at this point) rather comfortably. He might be able to defeat the both of them simultaneously (though this feat would be far from easy). NJO Luke's documented levels of prowess rank with those he performed in Dark Empire in raw skill, and then you have to calculate that he's only improved in experience and technique in the decades since. There are only a handful of individuals who are on Luke's own level of prowess, Revan isn't one of them.

He's "more powerful" than anyone in the PT save for Yoda and Sidious. Though Mace Windu would defeat him in a lightsaber duel, as would Anakin.

Originally posted by Sith Dude
It's really ironic how you said Luke could rape anyone he tries to kill when i previously stated how he couldn't kill Desann. Also i fully agree with you, Luke is the most powerful jedi and he can beat Revan, but he will not beat one of the most powerful jedi in the kotor era so easily. Also you sort of make Luke look like a god, hes far from it and cannot easily disarm or kill a powerful jedi or sith.

I apologized if i made him sond liek a god and cant be killed but he has done some amazing feats that can be seen godlike for even a force user such as manipulating a black hole. And the biggest problem for revan is that his saber skills are still not entirely known. Yes when know he was a saber prodigy and killed some powerful people like Malak. But the exact details is not known being that it is gameplay. And when luke fought desann he was not even at his strongest yet. And lukes power is varied based on the author such as Zhan showing him to be weaker. And luke did beat the most powerful sith lord ever de sidious in saber combat and is ahead of revan and pretty much everyone in every category in one on one fights.

Originally posted by Gideon

He's "more powerful" than anyone in the PT save for Yoda and Sidious. Though Mace Windu would defeat him in a lightsaber duel, as would Anakin. Or OT vader for sabers for that matter, we know absolutely nothing about revans saber skills, all we know is he is the best duelist of his time but the real question is just how good is he?

Actually, i think that Gideon pretty much stated the right place for revan's power and skill. As for OT vader, it was stated by GL himself that vader and obi's fight, in ANH, was slow and less impressive then other prequel fights since obi was out of practice/old after so many years in dantooine and that vader was simply a half men/half machine, greatly injured. Also, you have to see the fact that it was showed that maul was actually was even better then vader when they fought, when it comes to lightsaber (which i don't think too surprising to tell the true).

So, i am not saying that vader suckes with the lightsaber, it's not that, but i am pretty sure that his most powerful weapon was his force power and not the lightsaber.

Ah, and of course, Lukes owns Revan, no chance for him.

Originally posted by kamhal
Actually, i think that Gideon pretty much stated the right place for revan's power and skill. As for OT vader, it was stated by GL himself that vader and obi's fight, in ANH, was slow and less impressive then other prequel fights since obi was out of practice/old after so many years in dantooine and that vader was simply a half men/half machine, greatly injured. Also, you have to see the fact that it was showed that maul was actually was even better then vader when they fought, when it comes to lightsaber (which i don't think too surprising to tell the true).
We have seen vader fight remarkably with the lightsaber in the EU, Chee stated EU speeds to not contradict what is shown in the movies.

So no, vader isnt slow, hes better than revan in saber categories, crimson empire and RODV pretty says that much.

And how was vader out of practice? He has been hunting and killing jedi over the last 19 years, he surely had improved from the last time because the idea of not doing so is absurd.

Isn't the fights in Episode V and VI not impressive because at the time they where produced it wasn't possible to make lightsaber battle like the ones we see in Episode I, II and III?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Isn't the fights in Episode V and VI not impressive because at the time they where produced it wasn't possible to make lightsaber battle like the ones we see in Episode I, II and III?

Exactly and that greatly alters they way he see vader fight in the OT compared what he can really do and most likely would have been much more impressive in saber combat if the tech. was the same

Isn't the fights in Episode V and VI not impressive because at the time they where produced it wasn't possible to make lightsaber battle like the ones we see in Episode I, II and III?

All this can be true, yet GL himself stated that the fights were less impresive due to vader's injuries and obi's lack of practise. He could have surely have justified himself with the lack of technology, but he chose other way, so, and since GL's word>any other writer's word, this is the canon version.



Did i say that vader was out of practise? In case you haven't notice i said that OBI-WAN was stated as out of practise...

Originally posted by kamhal


All this can be true, yet GL himself stated that the fights were less impresive due to vader's injuries and obi's lack of practise. He could have surely have justified himself with the lack of technology, but he chose other way, so, and since GL's word>any other writer's word, this is the canon version.
I'm sorry kamhal but that does not mean he suck, If he fights so slow with obi wan, why is he even faster than his ANH self in TESB and ROTJ? Why is it stated by leeland chee and further more approved that movie speeds and EU speeds do not contradict?

GL only said the fights are not as good in the prequels, he never hinted the fact that vader sucks, we dont see him even try in the movies, the highest form of canon depicts this.

Oh and the fight between mace and windu was around the same speed as the ROTJ and TESB duels, and we have only seen mace fight in the movies, then i guess mace, one of the best duelers in the PT, is slow.

I repeat, GL only stated vaders fights are less impressive, which are true seeing his former self is better than him. Does that mean he suck? No

Originally posted by kamhal

Did i say that vader was out of practise? In case you haven't notice i said that OBI-WAN was stated as out of practise... Yet er have seen obi wan fight, hmm darth krayt? Doesn't matter though, vader was not out of practise, shadows of the empire can heavily prove my point. And so would common sense, vader is assigned to kill other people and hunt down the remaining jedi, so he cannot possibly let himself get rusty, on the other hand obi wan just has to watch luke.

First, you need to learn how to read what other people write.



This was me. So, and let's make it clear, i never said that vader sucks. What i said is that vader is not as good as some of the top duelists of prequels, for example. And you can see it by the fact that he only beat maul because once again maul was cocky and careless. Also, what i said is indeed a GL statement, which is high canon, over any EU made by other writers. So, once again i say that vader is not useless with the lightsaber, but he is not also as good as the top duelists of the prequels.



Damn it, READ what i WRITE. I didn't said vader was out of practise, for the third time, i said OBI-WAN was out of practise. And actually obi's fight agaisnt krayt was right before ANH? No, guess what, it was just some time after the end of the clone wars, several years before his fight against vader, and by this time is obvious that obi-wan is not out of practise...

Look, i don't know why I even have to try to explain this since it wasn't me who stated this, it was GL.

Originally posted by kamhal
First, you need to learn how to read what other people write. And you need to learn how to debate


Originally posted by kamhal

This was me. So, and let's make it clear, i never said that vader sucks. What i said is that vader is not as good as some of the top duelists of prequels, for example. And you can see it by the fact that he only beat maul because once again maul was cocky and careless. Also, what i said is indeed a GL statement, which is high canon, over any EU made by other writers. So, once again i say that vader is not useless with the lightsaber, but he is not also as good as the top duelists of the prequels.
Firstly when maul used the juyo and his DBL, they were evenly matched until maul altered his style into jarkai which vader is unfamiliar with and nearly got killed hence he got lucky.

And GL never stated vader sucks or he is slow, he just says as of ANH vaders dueling abilities are not as impressive as he once was, That doesnt mean vaders abilities with the lightsaber are not impressive.

Also, nothing from the EU depicting vaders ability contradicts GL or the movie because in the movies, vader does not try. Theres no debate in this, its pure common sense, We obviously dont see him try.

I guess going by "higher movie canon", the EU feats of sidious( lightning ) contradicts the movies because in the movie, we never see sidious kill anybody with lightning, nor did we see mace fighting fast and was the same speed as vader in TESB, Your point holds no water at all.

Ill repeat this for the last time, lucas only said he is less impressive than before, that doesnt mean he isnt impressive


Oh and he IS among the top duelers of the PT, behind mace and yoda under maul. Notice how easily he tools some of the jedi?


Originally posted by kamhal

Damn it, READ what i WRITE. I didn't said vader was out of practise, for the third time, i said OBI-WAN was out of practise. And actually obi's fight agaisnt krayt was right before ANH? No, guess what, it was just some time after the end of the clone wars, several years before his fight against vader, and by this time is obvious that obi-wan is not out of practise... Your point? I merely was backing my points of view

Who got lucky, Maul? Or vader, by killing maul off guard?



For the last time, I DIDN'T say that vader sucks with the lightsaber, i simply said that he was not as good as some of the top guys from the prequels, like yoda, sidious, windu, etc...



No? Then how windu was killed? Besides, sidious only tried force lightning against windu and yoda, 2 of the strongest force users of his time and ever... And even then only yoda survived. And why have I do justify an statement that is not mine after all?



Really? Hmm, but if i am wrong anakin only beat dooku "in teh zone", at his "regular" skill he was more or less even with dooku, which would mean that vader owuld be weaker then dooku with the lightsaber. Anakin also lost to obi-wan in ROTS by the way. So, no, he is not even in top 3 of the prequels, so is he great? Yes. Is he one of the very best? No.

Originally posted by kamhal
Who got lucky, Maul? Or vader, by killing maul off guard? vader, but the point is that he evenly matched maul before maul altered his style


Originally posted by kamhal

For the last time, I DIDN'T say that vader sucks with the lightsaber, i simply said that he was not as good as some of the top guys from the prequels, like yoda, sidious, windu, etc...
I was just making a point

Originally posted by kamhal

No? Then how windu was killed?
He fell off a window
Originally posted by kamhal

Besides, sidious only tried force lightning against windu and yoda, 2 of the strongest force users of his time and ever... And even then only yoda survived. And why have I do justify an statement that is not mine after all?
I was going by the "highest canon rule" which some people(not you) love to use to dispute that vader is a weakling so hence i brought up this point, i was only merely discussing it and being analytical.

Not that im trying to argue with you on this one but make a point
Originally posted by kamhal


Really? Hmm, but if i am wrong anakin only beat dooku "in teh zone", at his "regular" skill he was more or less even with dooku,
Anything to back this up? The novel already clearly indicated that dookus experience and mastery is irrelevant to the fury and skill of anakin, anakin in the zone is "fully utalising his skill"
Originally posted by kamhal

which would mean that vader owuld be weaker then dooku with the lightsaber.
Its debatable, because in RODV and the purge, we see how easily vader tooled some saber duelists without exerting much strength and remember katarn stating then when you alter your style, your opponents get off balanced?

They did it to vader, yet they still get tooled
Originally posted by kamhal

Anakin also lost to obi-wan in ROTS by the way.
And obi wan lost to dooku while anakin beat dooku, your point? A>B>C? Obi wan knew the way anakin fought, he knew him from head to toe, they have been in thousands of sparring matchs according to the novel
Originally posted by kamhal

So, no, he is not even in top 3 of the prequels, so is he great? Yes. Is he one of the very best? No. Did i say he was in the top tree? learn to read . I just pointed out he is among the top in the PT

Luke wins a fair fight. How many fights are fair though? For all practical purposes, Revan wins. Luke allows himself to be taken by surprise too easily. He lets his guard down. Oh sure, he doesn't loose when he fights. But he doesn't think very well until then.

Luke is BAR NONE the BEST force wielder to known date.

as much of a Revan fan as i am. Cant deny that Luke wins.. Luke beats Sids, Sids beats Revan, Luke beats revan.

THE END

The more I read forum topics with Revan mentioned the more I learn that lots of ppl hate and underestimate his character...which is veeery sad. Ok I completely understand that there are lots of original Star Wars fans(movies, books..) and when such character like Revan appears and his creators make him soooo powerful and great you cant just agree with this...I saw a lot of **** about Revan, being nothing compared to Anakin, or that Luke much more powerful...but this is very stupid to say, cos as creators of Star Wars Expanded Universe stated that Revan was the most powerful force user of his era (this inc. Marca Ragnos, Exar Kun, Bane, and etc...) and George Lucas stated himself that old jedi were more experienced and stronger with the force...So screw you all who say that Revan is only "a great military tactician" and that Luke pwns him... thats soooo ignorant..(Luke is stronger cos he lived for about 150 years(so we know more about his accomplishments),Revan achieved everything by the time he was 25(26)(- 1 year of restoration) And here is smth about Revans powers and achievements:

- Again, as a Dark Lord of the Sith, Revan is immensely powerful and considered to be one the most powerful of all time. According to another Sith Lord, Traya, he was power incarnate, looking at him was like "staring into the heart of the Force." He was strong enough to cause the entire Jedi Order to tremble. He was able to activate and take control of the Star Forge, a powerful Dark Side artifact, and survived the incredible Dark Side powers of Malachor V. Even after his mind was wiped, Revan regained his control of the Force extremely quickly, and the new Revan is perhaps the quickest Jedi ever trained next to Luke Skywalker.

- Revan's knowledge most likely matches or exceeds that of Darth Sidious. In a time when the Sith were very prominent, Revan not only studied every shred of knowledge the Jedi had to offer, but also studied ancient Sith holocrons, was taught by another powerful Dark Lord in a well of Dark Side energy on Malachor V, and visited Korriban as Sidious did. Knowledge was Darth Revan's fetish and it's likely he knew Sith magic as well.

- With a lightsaber, Revan is extremely dangerous. Already powerful and in control, he also has the ancient Sith holocron of Tulak Hord, the greatest lightsaber duelist to have ever lived. In addition, Revan is extremely experienced in lightsaber dueling, doing it on a regular basis and always emerging as victor.

- Tactically, Revan was a military genius. He is the almost sole reason the Republic won the Mandalorian War and very nearly destroyed the Republic despite Bastila's powerful morale controlling ability. During the Sith War, Revan purposefully left the Republic's infrastructure intact, so that even if he lost, he'd leave it stronger and more capable. He also utilized underlings like Sidious, particularly HK-47, to assassinate any destabilizing entities.

- Feats wise, Revan found and dominated the Star Forge, survived the Dark Side energies of Malachor V, converted many, many Jedi and half of the Republic fleet to his side, single-handedly defeated the leader of the Mandalorians and his army, and would have dominated the Republic, without destroying, through brute force, no subterfuge required. Arguably, Revan destroyed the Old Sith Empire, leaving the next truly dangerous Dark Lord of the Sith to be a mere Republic official - Sidious.
P.S. You must admit that Lucas, talking about Sidious-most powerfull Sith ever, Luke/Anakin Jedi ever doesn't take in consideration the whole expanded universe thing...And it is not I who is Raven funboy, but you - ignorant Original Crappy Books fans... P.P.S. And the whole "the chosen one" prophecy theory is bull... , cos according to Lucas himselve Anakin was just a product of Plagues experiments... P.P.P.S. And dont forget that according to Traia Revan is not some "Chosen One" but nothing less than a "Life of the Force" itself .

MaxWham, I don't think you understand how powerful Luke becomes. By the time of the NJO Luke has surpassed even DE Palpatine, a man who could create force storms that could tear the space-time continuum. NJO Luke is hands down the most powerful thing to have ever existed in the SW universe, he's as close to a god as they come. He has come a long, long, long, long way from the Luke we see in RotJ.

Let's make this short in ROTS novel Yoda is called the " most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" This means he is stronger than any lightsider to ever come before him. And Malak states the redeemed lightside Revan (canon ending) is stronger now than as a sith lord. So that alone puts Yoda above Revan and Yoda could not defeat Sidious in their duel and Luke comes and surpasses Yoda later on as the strongest. So as much as love Revan he just simply loses because Luke is simply better than him in every way related to one on one dueling. And btw as cool as Traya's quotes are they are third party in universe statement and she is falliable.

And in regards to Revan's saber skills. Yes he was the best in and order of ten of thousands which is impressive yet we don't know how he won his duels because everyone can different based on gameplay. We don't know which form he preferred. And you don't actually have to get Tulak Hord's tablet/holocron. So even that is debatable as is the fact that if he acquired it he could have given it to Uthar. And Tulak was the best of the ancient sith there is not enough to say he could contend with Jacen,Luke,Sidious,Bane etc.

MaxWham, this isn't hard to understand. NJO Luke is as close to a god as you can be. He could wave his hand and cause Revan to have a heart attack. This is literally a no contest fight, Revan cannot win.

Lol... Great argument )) Have you anything else to say?? And why he didn't wave his hand when Yuuzhan Vong came? Instead of loosing so many, he loved....? And was previously defeated by Desann )) lolzzz.P.S. I also can say that KOTOR3 Revan could blink his eye and cause Luke to blow up??

It was slight hyperbole, but 90% of the statement is true. Luke is so much more powerful in the force than Revan that he could kill him with something like force choke.

Revan has never shown anything that was even close to Luke's level of ability. The simple fact is that NJO Luke could overpower Revan with just the force, and he would do it very easily.

Originally posted by MaxWham
The more I read forum topics with Revan mentioned the more I learn that lots of ppl hate and underestimate his character...which is veeery sad. Ok I completely understand that there are lots of original Star Wars fans(movies, books..) and when such character like Revan appears and his creators make him soooo powerful and great you cant just agree with this...I saw a lot of **** about Revan, being nothing compared to Anakin, or that Luke much more powerful...but this is very stupid to say, cos as creators of Star Wars Expanded Universe stated that Revan was the most powerful force user of his era (this inc. Marca Ragnos, Exar Kun, Bane, and etc...) and George Lucas stated himself that old jedi were more experienced and stronger with the force...So screw you all who say that Revan is only "a great military tactician" and that Luke pwns him... thats soooo ignorant..(Luke is stronger cos he lived for about 150 years(so we know more about his accomplishments),Revan achieved everything by the time he was 25(26)(- 1 year of restoration) And here is smth about Revans powers and achievements:

- Again, as a Dark Lord of the Sith, Revan is immensely powerful and considered to be one the most powerful of all time. According to another Sith Lord, Traya, he was power incarnate, looking at him was like "staring into the heart of the Force." He was strong enough to cause the entire Jedi Order to tremble. He was able to activate and take control of the Star Forge, a powerful Dark Side artifact, and survived the incredible Dark Side powers of Malachor V. Even after his mind was wiped, Revan regained his control of the Force extremely quickly, and the new Revan is perhaps the quickest Jedi ever trained next to Luke Skywalker.

- Revan's knowledge most likely matches or exceeds that of Darth Sidious. In a time when the Sith were very prominent, Revan not only studied every shred of knowledge the Jedi had to offer, but also studied ancient Sith holocrons, was taught by another powerful Dark Lord in a well of Dark Side energy on Malachor V, and visited Korriban as Sidious did. Knowledge was Darth Revan's fetish and it's likely he knew Sith magic as well.

- With a lightsaber, Revan is extremely dangerous. Already powerful and in control, he also has the ancient Sith holocron of Tulak Hord, the greatest lightsaber duelist to have ever lived. In addition, Revan is extremely experienced in lightsaber dueling, doing it on a regular basis and always emerging as victor.

- Tactically, Revan was a military genius. He is the almost sole reason the Republic won the Mandalorian War and very nearly destroyed the Republic despite Bastila's powerful morale controlling ability. During the Sith War, Revan purposefully left the Republic's infrastructure intact, so that even if he lost, he'd leave it stronger and more capable. He also utilized underlings like Sidious, particularly HK-47, to assassinate any destabilizing entities.

- Feats wise, Revan found and dominated the Star Forge, survived the Dark Side energies of Malachor V, converted many, many Jedi and half of the Republic fleet to his side, single-handedly defeated the leader of the Mandalorians and his army, and would have dominated the Republic, without destroying, through brute force, no subterfuge required. Arguably, Revan destroyed the Old Sith Empire, leaving the next truly dangerous Dark Lord of the Sith to be a mere Republic official - Sidious.
P.S. You must admit that Lucas, talking about Sidious-most powerfull Sith ever, Luke/Anakin Jedi ever doesn't take in consideration the whole expanded universe thing...And it is not I who is Raven funboy, but you - ignorant Original Crappy Books fans... P.P.S. And the whole "the chosen one" prophecy theory is bull... , cos according to Lucas himselve Anakin was just a product of Plagues experiments... P.P.P.S. And dont forget that according to Traia Revan is not some "Chosen One" but nothing less than a "Life of the Force" itself . Your wrong, lucas stated the movie jedi are far superior to the kotor jedi.

Originally posted by MaxWham
Lol... Great argument )) Have you anything else to say?? And why he didn't wave his hand when Yuuzhan Vong came? Instead of loosing so many, he loved....? And was previously defeated by Desann )) lolzzz.P.S. I also can say that KOTOR3 Revan could blink his eye and cause Luke to blow up?? Will there be even kotor 3? Oh right NJO luke is 10 times more powerful than a post DE luke who got defeated by desann(going by what you said).

How is revan going to defend against attacks he has never seen before? Again common sense proves that NJO luke > revan.

Are you BLIND or smth??? GIVE ME ANYTHING TO PROOF THAT YODA WAS POWERFUL INSTEAD OF THIS QUOT!!!!
Yoda was 800 y. old and that was about 700 y. experience of force using.
Revan was f..ng 22-25 when he destroyed Mandalorians, killed Yusanis, controlled Star Forge, one of the most devastating tools of the dark side, easily killed Terentateks, conquered Rakatan, nearly defeated Republic, then crushed Malak and all his Sith armada, shaped the future of the whole Galaxy by reestablishing Jedi Order and providing the knowledge for Rule of Two creation!!!!!!!
ARE YOU BLIND???!!!??? GIVE ME AT LEAST ONE THING THAT YODA DID IN 800(!!!) YEARS TO BE COMPARED TO THIS!!!!???

Originally posted by MaxWham
Are you BLIND or smth??? GIVE ME ANYTHING TO PROOF THAT YODA WAS POWERFUL INSTEAD OF THIS QUOT!!!!
The quote IS proof. Face it accept it move on with life.


Originally posted by MaxWham

Revan was f..ng 22-25 when he destroyed Mandalorians, killed Yusanis, controlled Star Forge, one of the most devastating tools of the dark side, easily killed Terentateks, conquered Rakatan, nearly defeated Republic, then crushed Malak and all his Sith armada, shaped the future of the whole Galaxy by reestablishing Jedi Order and providing the knowledge for Rule of Two creation!!!!!!!
And how is that relevant to power? Palpatine accomplished more than that and yoda is his equal.
Originally posted by MaxWham

ARE YOU BLIND???!!!??? GIVE ME AT LEAST ONE THING THAT YODA DID IN 800(!!!) YEARS TO BE COMPARED TO THIS!!!!??? How about lifting mountains with the force which surpasses anything revan did with the force.

Welcome to the forums.

Here is the bottom line on the usage of quotes. The statements made by Darth Traya regarding Darth Revan are in-universe and subject to both suspicion and investigation; ultimately, she was a fallible mortal, ergo -- her opinion is not the end all be end all. Unlike the omniscient narrator in most Star Wars novels, Traya was victim of all sorts of biases and predispositions -- her statement that Revan was "the heart of the Force" is simply to be taken for its literal meaning: he was a very powerful Force-user.

Meanwhile, you have statements from the omniscient narrator in the G-canon source material -- Revenge of the Sith novelization -- that Master Yoda was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" is to be taken as the absolute gospel, because not only is the statement coming from a film novelization (which is among the highest forms of continuity) but also because the statement was made by the omniscient narrator.

Likewise, comparing Darth Revan to Emperor Palpatine in terms of accomplishments is a joke at best. One of them was a diabolical genius who used the dark side of the Force and his unparalleled grasp of politics and psychology to ascend to the highest office in the Galactic Republic, orchestrated the most devastating war (up to that point in history), toppled the Jedi Order, and replaced the Republic with the most powerful military regime in galactic history. The other was a remarkably skilled tactition who achieved remarkable success in battle, but failed to conquer the Jedi, Sith, or the galaxy in any respect. Though Revan is certainly among the most accomplished individuals, Palpatine trumps him.

And this thread is a half-hearted attempt by pro-Revan fanboys to spit in logic's eye and proclaim their insanity to the rest of the universe; it's a failed attempt at best.

The quote does prove Yoda was the most powerful Jedi until that point. Canon dictates that Yoda > Revan at his best, and also that NJO Luke > Yoda. By the power of reasoning we can conclude that NJO Luke >>> Revan.

I don't how you can say G canon isn't proof.

Originally posted by MaxWham

Sidious had no minions yeah? Listen to your own words, ok? HE HAD THE WHOLE ARMADA OF CLONED Jango Fetts,didn't he???

Last I checked he couldn't use them fully to carry out what he wanted to until the time was right to initiate order 66. And they weren't all loyal to him and some even refused order 66. Plus he couldn't just send them out against the jedi from the gecko because then he would have been tried for treason.

Originally posted by MaxWham
By the way... Rule of Two was Revans idea, and it tells that if Sith Master will teach more than one apprentice he is a fool, it doesn’t say however that he can’t have other military units and dark side acolytes.

read the book rule of two and you know what im talking about.

No, the rule of two was Bane's idea. He formed it from Revan's statement about each master only taking one apprentice, but Bane gets credit for the actual rule of two plan that became the way of the Sith.

Originally posted by MaxWham
Ok : maybe Star Forge powered Malak = DE Sidious, Shimrra (not Shirrma lol) = Mandalore The Ultimate and Jacen = Yusanis ?


lmao DE Sidious tears Malak apart and Jacen pwns Yusanis and Shimrra can defeat madarlore the utlimate. And do you know what all these battles have in common? We know nothing about the actual fight other than the ending. Revan could have been losing them all for all you know and managed to get in a quick to stab or something similar to the sort. And even stating SF Malak=DE Sidious is more fanyboyism the Legend showed.



Because as I have stated the quote I have provided came after kotor was made. If they only intended it to refer to a specific time period it would but guess what it says the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known.

Seriously guys, why even respond? At this point we know he's not interested in actually debating, hell, he doesn't even seem all that interested in typing up proper responses. If you want to keep out the everyday troll , then they have to be ignored. Besides, everyone here has already handed him his ass anyway.

^Good point

You showed yourselves to be really pathetic morons... you have no evidence but a quote from the book... Face it...
P.S. I was not the first to start calling names...

ROFL... Just when I thought Noobaris was the dumbest person on this forum. I guess I'm pleasantly surprised every day.

I don't know if this guy is worse than Nebaris yet, but he's getting pretty close.

Originally posted by MaxWham
You showed yourselves to be really pathetic morons... you have no evidence but a quote from the book... Face it...
P.S. I was not the first to start calling names...

Yes, all users here are pathetic morons, you are the one person who isn't blinded by things like logic, or facts. No, you're use of opinions that you don't back up with any actual facts far surpasses our own, cited and researched claims. Truly, you are a light in the dark....now leave.

I remember posting but a few feats of Yoda combat wise to

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I don't know if this guy is worse than Nebaris yet, but he's getting pretty close.

Nebaris is much, much worse. Mainly because he's actually kinda smart, but also has way to much time on his hands, this coupled with the fact that he's an ass makes him a far worse troll

This guy now is a bad itch, you scratch and then it's gone and forgotten. Neb is like poison ivy, you can't help but want to scratch it because it's just so obnoxious and incontinent, but when you do you only make things worse.

Oh my god, and I am stuped now?? You havent provided any evidence but that quote from the book, and I am stuped... Oh cmone...

I guessed you miss this and I have added a little more to it

He caused Count Dooku a highly powerful sith lord and the greatest Makashi duelist ever to live to fleed from him and Yoda had thoughts against killing him on Vjun where the darkside of the planet further empowered Dooku similar in way to what the star forge did to malak.

"Slowly, slowly, Dooku gave way: and in the dark drunken air, Yoda was terrible to behold." this was stated in Rendevous

"Yoda's skill with a lightsaber was still second to none on the council." from Darth Maul shadow Hunter which is before TPM and the experience he gains in the clone wars

Yoda was also one of the greatest if not the greatest Ataru duelist ever while we know next to nothing about Revan's saber skill.
and he was also able to reflect Sidious's lightning without his lightsaber being active.

Dooku told Grievous to avoid fighting Yoda in LOE

Called the" most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known"

In shatterpoint Windu says he is "not Yoda's equal in peace or war"

Hold on a second, now it's "Yoda's skills were second to none" in Shadow Hunter? I thought it was Bondara's skills that were "second to none".

Edit: Nm, one says council one says order.

http://www.foureyesjokeshop.com/ProductImages/Shut_The_Hell_UP_Gum.jpg

It was made by the omniscient narrator -- not a character -- in the RotS novelization. As you've been told. Multiple times. Selective vision must be a by-product of fanboyism...

Come back when you've got something better to work with, squirt.

And by the way THANKS for all your reply and great patience!!! Tomorrow I will try to think over this all again and post my final arguments.
P.S. He was called that only within the limits of that novelization.
Meanwhile we cant see any of his great skills...
And I will surely come back, clyster ;0 .
By the way I am 27. Older than you, right??

Dude, how old are you?

Originally posted by Sylar
Destroying the jedi which revan couldn't.

Wasn't Revan's goal more focused on catching and seducing Jedi to his Sith cause?

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
Wasn't Revan's goal more focused on catching and seducing Jedi to his Sith cause?

He knew he had to kill the ones that he couldn't turn and one way he did this was by putting some of the unloyal ones in the front lines of the battle of malachor


Do you read what is posted?




Actually i have said in the past Revan is one of my favorites inf not my favorite. Darth Sexy likes then ancient sith mainly Marka Ragnos,he also likes Revan I believe,Sylar's favorite is Vader.

MaxWham you are unfortunately a Revan fanboy I have seen you use the same argument here as you did on another forum and there the people reached the same conclusion as us. My advice and I suggest you take serious consideration to it is to stay away from the majority of vs threads involving Revan.

*slaps self*

why'd I even waste the time...

Nicely done

Originally posted by Pwned61
why'd I even waste the time...
Why do we waste our time but then again I did already have the majority my recent 2 posts that I have just posted saved and all I had to do was tweak them for this debate


Revan is NOT the sithari I really would like to see Nebaris tool with his pro Bane argument.

Wow mega ownage. This idiot really has no clue how to debate, hell i'm starting to praise nebaris seeing that he is (and i honestly mean it) far more intelligent than this lunatic.

Its no wonder this maxWham is a dumbass, he comes from lucasmorons.com, a place where filled with alot of stupid fanboys save for a few members i respect.

This guy is as stupid as that idiot jedimasterJambi from that site as well.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Wow mega ownage agreed 100%
GJ pwned61

Well done indeed, just that sidious mind wiped more than hundres and thousands of people on coruscant, possibly even millions considering how densely populated the city is.

I wouldn't say they are all stupid on lucasforums the consensus is over there now seems to be Nihilus beats Revan. Even the people who have admitted to be fanboys are realizing it.

Well you do know that idiot admin roguenine right? He and a few others deserve the title stupid dumbass of the year 2008. Just take a look at his arguement when i argued with him, and he banned me after wtf owning him in a debate.

Wow, those dumbass' over at stupidrevanfanboys.com need to be shot for excessive use of extreme stupidity.

It's funny how they contradict themselves time and time again in their piss poor excuse of arguments saying 'R3v4n iz t3h Ub4R!11!1!!' all the time.

I hate to admit this, but they're even worse than N00baris(Though not by much, I assure you).