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batman w/motherbox
both have 7 days prep

who wins?

According to Amazons Attack, Batman is a better magician than Circe and Zatanna combined so Batman wins...

Originally posted by Draco69
According to Amazons Attack, Batman is a better magician than Circe and Zatanna combined so Batman wins...



Um, Amazons attack was severly rediculous. Wonder Woman was a fool, and she was the best hero in the series.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, Amazons attack was severly rediculous. Wonder Woman was a fool, and she was the best hero in the series.

Amazons Attack was the best story in years. Everyone had perfect characterization. The plot made complete sense. There was absolutely nothing wrong with it at all.

Batman is clearly an AAA magician.

You give Bats 7 days prep???!!

How can he lose?

Batman.

Originally posted by Draco69
According to Amazons Attack, Batman is a better magician than Circe and Zatanna combined so Batman wins...

Did that really happen? I thought I was drunk when I read that comic.

Originally posted by Badabing
Did that really happen? I thought I was drunk when I read that comic.

Sadly, yes. He said one word and suddenly Circe was powerless for 48 hours.

Apparently where Shazam, Zatanna, the Shadowpact and Phantom Stranger tried and failed, Batman had the magical mojo to stop Circe and take down her forcefield....

That goddamn Batman....

Originally posted by Draco69
Sadly, yes. He said one word and suddenly Circe was powerless for 48 hours.

Apparently where Shazam, Zatanna, the Shadowpact and Phantom Stranger tried and failed, Batman had the magical mojo to stop Circe and take down her forcefield....

http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18bw7.jpg

That?

He said some words that he didn't even understand given to him by Zatanna, and it was only a single hour.

Or were you talking about another instance?

Originally posted by Soljer
http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18bw7.jpg

That?

He said some words that he didn't even understand given to him by Zatanna, and it was only a single hour.

Or were you talking about another instance?

My bad about the time.

But it's still ridiculous. You need magical powers to do magic. You can't just say a word and somehow usurp a goddess-level sorceress.

If it was Zatanna doing it? Sure, that's credible.

But an ordinary Joe with no magical powers or reserves whatsoever?

Bullcrap....

Originally posted by Draco69


batman's no ordinary Joe thought

batman knows magic?

Originally posted by masterbruce
batman's no ordinary Joe thought

In the magical world, he is.

Batman has no magical mojo whatsoever.

How the hell did he cast a spell with a few words when he's had no magical training, no magical reserves to call upon or magical powers at all?

Originally posted by Draco69
In the magical world, he is.

Batman has no magical mojo whatsoever.

How the hell did he cast a spell with a few words when he's had no magical training, no magical reserves to call upon or magical powers at all?

Magic is often thought of as a skill, not an innate power.

Something anyone can learn, if they devote enough time to it.

Batman's learned entire martial arts in a single match and has deciphered alien technology within minutes.

If you assume it's a skill and not a power, it's not out of the realm of believability that Zatanna could teach him a single spell.

Originally posted by Draco69
Sadly, yes. He said one word and suddenly Circe was powerless for 48 hours.

Apparently where Shazam, Zatanna, the Shadowpact and Phantom Stranger tried and failed, Batman had the magical mojo to stop Circe and take down her forcefield.... I was hoping I really didn't see that in the comic. I'm always happy to jump on the Batman bandwagon but that's was too much.

On the magic + Batman aspect .....while the writers probably went a tad bit too far (understatement), there is some historical precedence on Bruce knowing some level of magick.

Case in point: There have been several instances where Batman has been shown to be familiar with magick/occult facets. A couple of examples are like when he was searching out a reason for how Jason Todd had come back to life, or for that matter his conversations with the Demon Etrigan on the occult. Batman has an understanding of the occult (ranging from true magick to occultic artifacts to supernatural phenomena like the alchemical lazarus pits and how they are made/destroyed).

Thus it is within his locus for him to be able to use a magical word, particularly if it had been given to him by someone like Zatanna. It was a word, not a complex intricate magical ritual (if i remember correctly the thing that was bothering him was whether or not he could PRONOUNCE it right, meaning that it was the word that had the power).

The ONLY reason why I am not for Batman using magic is this .....per his conversations with Etrigan, he is not for magic. It is too easy. He may know some of it, but he would never use it (unless it was a very special case, and maybe the thing with Circe qualifies).

In a way using magic for Batman is like him using a gun ......not exactly the same (since the gun has certain psychological trauma connections for him), but along the same lines.

Another way of looking at it is that Batman doesn't like 'external' help, be it from a gun, or magic.

Think about when he went to Apokolips, and the only thing that kept him alive (when he was being punched by Darkseid) was the MotherBox ...it barely kept him alive.

Now, when Big Barda told him later that he should let the Mother Box heal his wounds, Batman REFUSED. He said that he had his own methods, and he would rather use them.

He refused INSTANTENOUS healing .....why?

For the same reason he would not use magic, or use a gun.

Thus, my problem is not whether or not Batman knows magick (he does, although on a theoretical level and DEFINITELY NOT to the level of a Strange/Fate/Zatanna/ on even other lesser magick users). My problem is that he USED magick .....it is against his character.

Unless one argues that the case with Circe was a 'special' case.

strange wins for sure.

Bruce has plenty of time to learn just about everything concerning the mother box. 10/10 Batman easily.

Originally posted by DARKLORDCAEDUS
Bruce has plenty of time to learn just about everything concerning the mother box. 10/10 Batman easily. dr strange would be to much even for batman here. strange is great with prep and his magical abiliteis would just crush batman.

a motherbox would only protect him for so long.

Strange win.

Originally posted by quanchi112
dr strange would be to much even for batman here. strange is great with prep and his magical abiliteis would just crush batman.

a motherbox would only protect him for so long.

It is actually not that clear-cut by the way.

Not saying that Batman would win, but it is not automatic for the good Doctor to win either.

A motherbox has amazing abilities, and I am sure that for those 7 days Batman wouldn't be planning on simply using it to negate injuries.

This match is actually closer than people think, and it could go either way.

Why?

Because Strange is a sorcerer supreme with 7 days of prep, and that is just a bad combo for anyone going against Strange. He is almost guaranteed a win. Strange would be a beast!

But also note that Batman has one of the sharpest minds ever, and with a motherbox for 7 days he would have a universe of knowledge (plus the ability to go anywhere to get what he wants via the motherbox's boomtube), and an entire cosmos of strategy against magic-wielders. And it is never prudent to count Bruce out. He is also almost guaranteed a win.

Put the two against each other and the outcome is really hard to call.

I'm going with Batman

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I'm going with Batman

Ditto, I mean he is THE Batman.

Originally posted by Lord Shaper
Ditto, I mean he is THE Batman. strange is the sorcerer supreme. and just as good at prep as batman pretty much. strange wins this hands down.

Originally posted by spetznaz
It is actually not that clear-cut by the way.

Not saying that Batman would win, but it is not automatic for the good Doctor to win either.

A motherbox has amazing abilities, and I am sure that for those 7 days Batman wouldn't be planning on simply using it to negate injuries.

This match is actually closer than people think, and it could go either way.

Why?

Because Strange is a sorcerer supreme with 7 days of prep, and that is just a bad combo for anyone going against Strange. He is almost guaranteed a win. Strange would be a beast!

But also note that Batman has one of the sharpest minds ever, and with a motherbox for 7 days he would have a universe of knowledge (plus the ability to go anywhere to get what he wants via the motherbox's boomtube), and an entire cosmos of strategy against magic-wielders. And it is never prudent to count Bruce out. He is also almost guaranteed a win.

Put the two against each other and the outcome is really hard to call.

All in all it would be a damn good fight.

Originally posted by Lord Shaper
All in all it would be a damn good fight. it wouldnt be as close as u think. batman is out of his league with all this magic stuff.

Batman is a powerfull magician in massive denial

it is often pointed out that The Dark Knight trained and practiced in At least 147 martial arts.

The MENTAL arts the Bat trained in are laughed at on most forums as irrellevent.

But it is these arts and his Unique Chi that give him the power to duplicate Motherboxes healing ability independently

First encounter Manitou Raven with The JLA

Manitou Raven and The God Tezumak take character ownage to new heights with a complete Knock out of A Strong Prepped JLA. Batman acts like their magic and technomagic based attack was an aphrodisiac The Batman breaks his bonds and smashes his teammates restraints

WW and MM look at The Bat REAL hard and confront him
The Bat looks back equally hard. He dosen't give them an answer.

JLA World War III when a universe eating Old God Maggeddon shows up to Eat the New World whose thoughts are so evil MM and Supes pass out at a mere glimpse The Bat is there to take Supes and MM by the hand and lead them into the Mind of a Mad God.

The Detective 10/10

Originally posted by don't shiv
Batman is a powerfull magician in massive denial

it is often pointed out that The Dark Knight trained and practiced in At least 147 martial arts.

The MENTAL arts the Bat trained in are laughed at on most forums as irrellevent.

But it is these arts and his Unique Chi that give him the power to duplicate Motherboxes healing ability independently

First encounter Manitou Raven with The JLA

Manitou Raven and The God Tezumak take character ownage to new heights with a complete Knock out of A Strong Prepped JLA. Batman acts like their magic and technomagic based attack was an aphrodisiac The Batman breaks his bonds and smashes his teammates restraints

WW and MM look at The Bat REAL hard and confront him
The Bat looks back equally hard. He dosen't give them an answer.

JLA World War III when a universe eating Old God Maggeddon shows up to Eat the New World whose thoughts are so evil MM and Supes pass out at a mere glimpse The Bat is there to take Supes and MM by the hand and lead them into the Mind of a Mad God.

The Detective 10/10 dr strange with prep is far greater than superman with prep.

bruce wayne loses. he has also lost to superman with prep. dont forget about that.

superdur

Ich don't think so.

Originally posted by don't shiv
superdur

Ich don't think so. batman cant defeat superman with onesided prep sometimes. superman has glaring weaknesses. dr strange with prep would crush him.

Batman is good, rediculously so. He'd have a much better chance than most against the Dr.

Unfortunately, Dr. Strange is the king of prep. And for the record, the 7 gates of destruction spell takes 7 days to cast.........fear Strange wins via destroying the universe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
dr strange with prep is far greater than superman with prep.

bruce wayne loses. he has also lost to superman with prep. dont forget about that.



As I had posted earlier on the thread, my point is not that Strange would lose or Bruce would win (or that Strange would win or that Bruce would lose).

I know that the good Doctor is a monster without prep, and with Prep you might as well cash in your check and head on home. Anyone saying otherwise either doesn't know comics, or is just acting the fool.

What I am saying is that Batman is not exactly at starter class level when it comes to prep, and when it comes to pulling a trump card when it is least expected he is the BEST at it (note ....I am not talking about prep here, but rather turning an unwinnable situation into a win). The only person who beats him in that regard is Squirrel Girl, and in her case her main power is PIS (Batman on the other side has had a modicum of logic in his feats, for instance how he managed in the Obsidian Age, as well as how he took out the White Martians when the JLA had been effectively pawned).

If you are a bad guy, and you have 'won,' the one character you can COUNT on to mess up your day is Batman. Guaranteed. Just when you think your plan is foolproof (whether you are Vandal Savage, a bevy of White Martians, or Darkseid himself) you can be certain that a certain 'peak human' (an inside DC joke .....private mail me if you want to know more) will mess things up for you. Batman is more than what he seems ......for instance DC almost let their 'joke' outta the bag when they had the Sinestro corps offer Batman a Qwardian ring. Note: Those rings were automatically sent to beings and entities that inspired great fear, and one went to Batman. He refused it, but it was interesting nonetheless. Another favourite of mine (mentioned by another poster) is when he was seemingly able to break out of some high magic when other FAR MORE powerful teammates of his were hapless. Or for that matter the case with the White Martians.

Or the fact that a, ahem DC, 'peak human' was part of the JLA Trimurti!


Note: In terms of pure prep there are a number characters greater (some FAR greater than Batman), but in terms of turning a bad situation into a win probably only Squirrel Girl takes it (oh .....I should also mention Mr. Miracle).

BTW: To Batman fans. I am not saying Batman is not a god of prep ....he is, and cases like the thousand year prep plan in Obsidian age proves this. What I am saying is that there are some charcaters who are better at prep, and have longer spans of time sequence/permutation manipulation.

Anyways, on this thread.

What I am saying is that Batman is not someone to automatically attribute a loss to. Obsidian age showed that ....easily.

And THEN give Batman a MotherBox!

That is not a good scenario for ANY character, because for those days Batman could be anywhere in the UNIVERSE getting ANYTHING and with UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE and awareness.

Conclusion:

I am not saying Batman would win. As stated, Strange with prep is no joke.
But it would be a good fight. It may end in less than a second, but it wouldn't be as obvious as some may think.

This is actually one fight I would PAY to see .....more than any Surfer/Superman/Thor/Thanos/Hulk stupid-punchup. This fight (Strange Bruce) would probably last a split second (as one instantly destroys the other), but I would want to see it.

Why?

Because I would like to see whether Bruce, with those resources, could be able to pull a win against one of the most powerful sorcerers out there, who with prep is basically a demi-god (although note that Batman with a motherbox is a .....you guessed it ....virtually one as well).

Might be a short fight, but it would be intellectually stimulating for YEARS.

(In the punch-up series i would like to see a bout between Shiva, Richard Dragon, Batgirl, and Shang Chi .....and then an 'advanced' level fight between Gamora, Karate Kid, and Batman 1 Million.....probably the only fights I'd put before the Strange Batman fight).