Darth Malak vs. Darth Vader

Manslayer

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How can you say that Vader had mastered Force to a high degree?
How can you say he couldnt? He is 80% the strength of the most powerful sith lord, studied the dark side for decades under palpatine. And vader has performed techniques that malak has yet to demonstrate

Im pretty sure even the ancient sith saluted vader when they built his throne on korriban along side the deceased ancient sith lords

Dont expect a reply soon legend if you respond, im in alot of shit IRL at the moment so it may take a while

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

In a force fight, Malak would win if he is able to utilize his force lightning. He was described as a very powerful force user. However, Vader has mastered the force to a higher degree. Provided there is no force lightning, Vader wins.

Well it depends who strikes first sexy, if malak strikes with lightning before vader does anything, its a garentee vader goes down, But what if vader strikes with his force crush which was strong enough to destroy an entire medical room when he was merely unhappy and displeased? Then vader would be the victor right?

Btw was it stated that vader couldnt block lightning with force techniques? Because shadows of the empire novel indicated he could use the force to deflect blaster bolts and that technique could be the same as yoda who used it to block palpatines lightning.

I just need a confirmation from anybody about this matter, thank you

Timing is critical in this situation

tulakhordpwns

Originally posted by Manslayer
Well it depends who strikes first sexy, if malak strikes with lightning before vader does anything, its a garentee vader goes down, But what if vader strikes with his force crush which was strong enough to destroy an entire medical room when he was merely unhappy and displeased? Then vader would be the victor right?
That was very uncontrolled, and it took Vader a little while to do it. And a strong force user would be able to at least partially block the crush. I think Sidious was in the room when it was crushed, he obviously was not killed.

In I, Jedi it is shown that Corran Horn uses the force to absorb the energy from blaster bolts and shoot it back at people, so that is probably what Vader did. While this technique might work on lightning, it would still result in Vader's electronic parts being destroyed.

If this is RotJ Vader
a)Vader- Malak hasn't shown anything other than being called a skilled duelist, Vader was one of the best duelists ever.
b)Malak- he kills him with force lightning
c)Malak- again, force lightning wins it

If this is RotS Vader
a)Vader
b)Malak- Vader hasn't shown much skill to this point
c)Vader- His dueling skills overcome Malak's force mastery

Gideon

At the rate you're heading, that isn't going to happen. I make it a personal habit to remind you of the KotoR era's inferiority every time you attempt to exaggerate its greatness; that's how it's always going to be until you accept it and move on.

Malak's command of Force lightning was exceptional? I would appreciate the source. Furthermore, substantiate exceptional. Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to repel Force lightning from Count Dooku -- who was, according to G-canon one of the very most powerful Jedi Masters in the Jedi Order's twenty-five thousand year history and an even stronger Sith Lord -- with just his lightsaber, and without too much difficulty. Vader, who is physically stronger than Kenobi and stronger in the Force, would suddenly be destroyed by someone inferior to Dooku? Doubt it.

I could just as well say that Vader will crush Malak's lightsaber and do the same to his windpipe.

Proteus

S_W_LeGenD...

One limitation that Vader possesses and that Malak doesn't says nothing about who's mastered the force to the higher degree, seeing as it has no relation on his other abilities, such as TK, which Vader has displayed with far more mastery than Malak has for any technique (such as when he chokes that Imperial to death while lightyears away from him).

It would be like saying that Yoda or Mace Windu could never master the lightsaber to the degree that Grievous has simply because they only possess two arms and not four (a limitation, so to speak) and therefor can't ever naturally wield four sabers. Sounds silly, doesn't it? It's parallel to what you're saying.

darthsith19

This is close, which Vader is this? If it's ROTS Vader then:

a. Vader wins. Very few people could beat Vader in a saber duel.

b. ???

c. Vader.

If it's OT Vader then:

a. ???

b. Malak, though only because of lightning.

c. Not sure. With his saber, Vader can block lightning, so then he'd be above Malak with the Force. This is close.

Manslayer

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
That was very uncontrolled, and it took Vader a little while to do it.
Thats because he was using his emotions, not a force technique, the amount of damage he can do with that technique would be even greater than just using his emotions

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

And a strong force user would be able to at least partially block the crush.
If the force user has force shield technique which malak has yet to demonstrate

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

I think Sidious was in the room when it was crushed, he obviously was not killed.
He was not focusing ALL of his anger on sidious alone, besides vader can never harm sidious weather he uses a technique or not
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

In I, Jedi it is shown that Corran Horn uses the force to absorb the energy from blaster bolts and shoot it back at people, so that is probably what Vader did. While this technique might work on lightning, it would still result in Vader's electronic parts being destroyed. Well the lightning doesnt directly touch yodas hand when he dissipates it and im sure he used that same technique to deflect a bolt shot by a yinchorri in acts of war.

Anyways its not like vader doesnt have a lightsaber to block it

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

If this is RotJ Vader
a)Vader- Malak hasn't shown anything other than being called a skilled duelist, Vader was one of the best duelists ever.
Agreeable, though i think malak may beat him in a saber duel though there is nothing to back it up so vader wins this

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

b)Malak- he kills him with force lightning
And vader can kill him with a force crush which completely immobalises malaks body movement. In a pure force fight, timing is critical, malak strikes first then malak wins BUT if vader strikes with his crush, then he is likely to win.

Timing is critical friend. And going by your logic R2D2 will annihilate vader because he has an electric zapper.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

c)Malak- again, force lightning wins it I guess you forgot vader has a lightsaber in this fight, Again vaders a smart fighter and admist the duel he can use the sorroundings to his advantage.

The fight wont be easy for vader but he will win it given his force mastery, skill in the force and lightsaber skills
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

If this is RotS Vader
a)Vader
b)Malak- Vader hasn't shown much skill to this point
c)Vader- His dueling skills overcome Malak's force mastery Agreed

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Spartan 063
the fight occurs on a neutral planet with the two of them starting 30 feet from one another

who wins.

how would the two compare in:

a. saber fight
b. force fight
c. all out fight

In case of ROTS Vader vs Malak:

a. Vader
b. Malak
c. 50 / 50 chances for both

NOTE: (for point c)

If Vader forces Saber duel on Malak and keeps pressure on him, then he can win.

OR

If Malak manages to immobilize Vader quickly and early on in the duel with his impressive Force Mastery, then he can win.

In case of OT Vader vs Malak:

a. Malak
b. 50 / 50 chances for both
c. Malak have higher chances to win in this case

NOTE: (for point b)

It depends upon the factor that who strikes first.

NOTE: (for point c)

Malak is the better duelist in this case. He is physically strong and also more agile then OT Vader and his Force Mastery is also exceptional. He have higher chances to defeat OT Vader in an all out fight.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Proteus
S_W_LeGenD...

One limitation that Vader possesses and that Malak doesn't says nothing about who's mastered the force to the higher degree, seeing as it has no relation on his other abilities, such as TK, which Vader has displayed with far more mastery than Malak has for any technique (such as when he chokes that Imperial to death while lightyears away from him).
You seemed to have forgotten that Malak was Force Choking two "Jedi Knights" simultaneously in one of his fights against them in the KOTOR. Now that was surely impressive.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Gideon
At the rate you're heading, that isn't going to happen. I make it a personal habit to remind you of the KotoR era's inferiority every time you attempt to exaggerate its greatness; that's how it's always going to be until you accept it and move on.
I try to keep my judgments as nuetral as possible and I acknowledge greatness of both eras and also acknowledge the fact that the technology of the PT period was indeed superior.

Originally posted by Gideon
Malak's command of Force lightning was exceptional? I would appreciate the source. Furthermore, substantiate exceptional.
Sure!

An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. (DSSB)

Malak have demonstrated several Force skills like: Force Lightning, Chain Lightning, Force Whirlwind, Force Choke, Drain Force, TK based Saber attacks and Stasis Field.

- He used Force Whirlwind to overcome Revan on Leviathan.
- He could Force Stun several opponents simultaneously.
- He could Force Choke a couple of Jedi simultaneously.
- He could throw Light Saber at great precision towards his target from long distances and the Light Saber after striking would return to him.
- He was a master practitioner of Force Lightning and could also perform Chain Lightning.
- He could use Drain Force on his opponents in combat and we all know that what this technique does.

Originally posted by Gideon
Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to repel Force lightning from Count Dooku -- who was, according to G-canon one of the very most powerful Jedi Masters in the Jedi Order's twenty-five thousand year history and an even stronger Sith Lord -- with just his lightsaber, and without too much difficulty. Vader, who is physically stronger than Kenobi and stronger in the Force, would suddenly be destroyed by someone inferior to Dooku? Doubt it.
Malak being inferior to Dooku in the Force? Doubt it!

Originally posted by Gideon
I could just as well say that Vader will crush Malak's lightsaber and do the same to his windpipe.
And what is stopping Malak from using a Force Whirlwind to trap Vader inside and then crush him through his lethal Force Lightning strikes?

Darth Sexy

Oh yes, because not only is force whirlwind a canon ability of Malak's, but Malak should be able to use his force abilities on ANY force user, nevermind the fact that the better the force user, the more of a defense he has to force techniques. While Malak has force lightning, Vader has demonstrated mastery of the force superior to Malak. With your logic, Vader should be able to force choke Malak from a distance, or force crush him.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh yes, because not only is force whirlwind a canon ability of Malak's, but Malak should be able to use his force abilities on ANY force user, nevermind the fact that the better the force user, the more of a defense he has to force techniques. While Malak has force lightning, Vader has demonstrated mastery of the force superior to Malak. With your logic, Vader should be able to force choke Malak from a distance, or force crush him.
Force Whirlwind is a kind of power that very few people can resist but even then it would distract them. And that distraction would be enough for Malak to take advantage off.

Then Vader can also overcome Malak through his devastating Force Crush in close combat situations. Force Crush is indeed among the deadliest applications of the Force. Though he won't be able to Force Choke Malak from light years away.

Darth Sexy

Yet Vader's shown more mastery of the force than Malak. Force choking someone from hundreds of light years away is incredible.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yet Vader's shown more mastery of the force than Malak. Force choking someone from hundreds of light years away is incredible.
I suppose that Freedon Nadd's Force mastery would also be on par with that of OT Vader because he too managed to disrupt Vodo from light years away?

What Vader did was indeed very impressive. I do acknowledge the fact that OT Vader's Force mastery was indeed exceptional. I never argued against it.

However read this:

Malak was Force Choking two "Jedi Knights" simultaneously in one of his fights against them in the KOTOR. Now that was also surely impressive.

Darth Sexy

So? He was more powerful than the Jedi Knights. I don't consider Nadd's ability all that impressive considering he was on Korriban and enveloped in the dark side. Although, Nadd is a powerhouse.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So? He was more powerful than the Jedi Knights.
Great logic!

Vader was then far more powerful then that imperial officer he choked.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't consider Nadd's ability all that impressive considering he was on Korriban and enveloped in the dark side. Although, Nadd is a powerhouse.
If Nadd is a powerhouse, then people like Revan, Malak, Exar Kun, Dooku, Sidious, Nihilus, Yoda, Luke, Bane and Vader are Force Gods.

Darth Sexy

First of all, Malak was empowered by the death star, so it wasn't as impressive as you make it out to be, and those jedi knights were nothing.. Vader force choked someone from hundreds of light years away..

Darth Hord

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
First of all, Malak was empowered by the death star, /B]

You mean the star forge wink

Darth Sexy

I don't know what I'm smoking

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
First of all, Malak was empowered by the death star, so it wasn't as impressive as you make it out to be, and those jedi knights were nothing.. Vader force choked someone from hundreds of light years away..
Nice way to downplay a feat.

Care to explain to me that how Malak was being empowered by the Star Forge at that point when he was facing those two Jedi?

The Star Forge was not helping him to overcome those Jedi. It was his own feat.

And by the way, a Jedi Knight is a far superior combatant then an Imperial or Republic officer. And a Jedi Knight possesses much more advanced defensive abilities that can help him withstand Force attacks.

Malak was facing two simultaneously and he managed to Force Choke them both with a flick of his hand.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nice way to downplay a feat.

Care to explain to me that how Malak was being empowered by the Star Forge at that point when he was facing those two Jedi?

The Star Forge was not helping him to overcome those Jedi. It was his own feat.

And by the way, a Jedi Knight is a far superior combatant then an Imperial or Republic officer. And a Jedi Knight possesses much more advanced defensive abilities that can help him withstand Force attacks.

Malak was facing two simultaneously and he managed to Force Choke them both with a flick of his hand.

Downplay? How is that downplaying? Malak's abilities increased to an incredible level while on the star forge, this is fact. How are you going to claim that it was his own feat? I can claim that he had more mastery over the force with less concentration while being on something that is a tool of the darkside.
Nobody cares if a Jedi knight is superior to a non force user. Look at Fett. However, this is all irrelevant. Vader force choking someone from across the galaxy is more impressive than Malak force choking two jedi knights on the star forge.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Downplay? How is that downplaying? Malak's abilities increased to an incredible level while on the star forge, this is fact. How are you going to claim that it was his own feat? I can claim that he had more mastery over the force with less concentration while being on something that is a tool of the darkside.
Malak's abilities did not increased to an incredible level while on the Star Forge. The only thing that he enjoyed over there was the strong dark side presence, which would give a dark sider some sort of boost but not a huge one. And he was never directly aided by the Star Forge in any of his fights inside that place. He had to rely on his own skills to defeat the odds during his fights.

Only Bastilla Shan was directly aided by the Star Forge during her clash with Revan.

Now before you come up with more argument, I shall remind you that Malak's Force attacks were highly effective even in those places where dark side was not strong.

Take a look at the case of Malak's fight on Leviathan.

He instantly Force stunned both Bastilla and Carth simultaneously so that they won't interfere in his duel with Revan.

He then managed to overcome Revan twice during his duel with him on that ship through his Force Mastery and was about to defeat him until Bastilla made her move.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nobody cares if a Jedi knight is superior to a non force user. Look at Fett. However, this is all irrelevant. Vader force choking someone from across the galaxy is more impressive than Malak force choking two jedi knights on the star forge.
Only you don't care but many would infact do.

Vader force choked a non-force user who had got no chance to defend against a Force attack.

Malak on the other hand was Force choking two Jedi Knights simultaneously without any external help. They could defend against Force attacks but Malak was too strong for even two of them to handle.

Darth Hord

Um the star forge did aid Malak by allowing to drain atleast one of the captured jedi to replenish him and gives him the jedi's power which was corrupted by the star forge. And Revan's power at the time on the leviathan can't be judge too well in the first place and the same goes for Bastilla.

Gideon

If I might borrow a common phrase from Advent, I lol'd. Based on your rather notorious exploits, you fail to keep anything neutral or bias free when you compare KotoR to any era. So, I bring it upon myself to remind you. The PT age was not only superior in technology, but in importance and power as well. The KotoR age? It was inferior. Accept it and move on.

How nice. A G-canon source -- higher than the Dark Side Sourcebook boasts about Count Dooku's prowess in a greater fashion.

Again, good for Malak. Nevermind the fact that you're labelling attacks from a video game thus making it seem much more impressive, he's still not held in as high of esteem as Count Dooku.

You mean the same Darth Revan that -- according to you -- pwned him later on despite greater odds? Pathetic, you attempt to use double standards. It doesn't work. This Revan had no access to his memories or former level of experience and skill.

Yup, and Dooku brought Asajj to her knees by lifting a finger. Asajj Ventress who, by merit and achievement, would manhandle the majority of KotoR Jedi and Sith.

...Which makes him superior to Vader or Dooku how? Substantiate how powerful these Jedi are. Zannah telekinetically broke the necks of two Jedi in a fit of rage before she became Bane's apprentice. By your logic, she'd WTFpwnannhilate Malak.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha. You mean a typical saberthrow that Luke as of RotJ can do? Not impressed, LeGenD.

And Dooku pwned Sora Bulq with Force lightning while dueling with another Jedi Master. Sora Bulq who nearly mastered Vaapad and was regarded as Dooku's most formidable acolyte (for a time).

And yet it didn't help him against Revan or

Bullshit logic, once more. Are you like a vending machine of suck-ass arguments? "Malak being inferior to Dooku in the Force? Doubt it!" is not an argument. Dooku is held in higher regard. Period. The source that boasts about his power is higher than the one regarding Malak. Period. Dooku is regarded -- verbatim -- as "one of the very best ever"
and "an even greater" Sith Lord. That's more than you can provide for Malak. Period.

Raise. Your. Game. Or. Don't. Bother. Continuing.

Being weaker in the Force. smile

Manslayer

where did vader exactly choke some one lightyears away?

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Gideon
How nice. A G-canon source -- higher than the Dark Side Sourcebook boasts about Count Dooku's prowess in a greater fashion.
Where in a G-Canon source it is stated that Dooku is superior to Malak?

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, good for Malak. Nevermind the fact that you're labelling attacks from a video game thus making it seem much more impressive, he's still not held in as high of esteem as Count Dooku.
Again! It is not my fault if you do not recognize Malak's feats properly.

Originally posted by Gideon
You mean the same Darth Revan that -- according to you -- pwned him later on despite greater odds? Pathetic, you attempt to use double standards. It doesn't work. This Revan had no access to his memories or former level of experience and skill.
Excuse me! What double-standards I am using over here? You need to get your eyes checked.

Can you prove to me that Revan was very weak when he faced Malak on Leviathan? He was actually re-trained by the Dantooine Jedi Order so that he would become ready to face tough challenges again. And couple this with his smartness, he was still a good fighter with great Raw strength.

And he did managed to overpower Malak during the first phase of his duel with him but Malak suddenly generated a powerful Force Whirlwind to stop him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yup, and Dooku brought Asajj to her knees by lifting a finger. Asajj Ventress who, by merit and achievement, would manhandle the majority of KotoR Jedi and Sith.
And she would herself get manhandled by the elite ones though.

Originally posted by Gideon
...Which makes him superior to Vader or Dooku how? Substantiate how powerful these Jedi are. Zannah telekinetically broke the necks of two Jedi in a fit of rage before she became Bane's apprentice. By your logic, she'd WTFpwnannhilate Malak.
Malak's Force choke capabilities are indeed impressive. Force Choking two Jedi Knights simultaneously is not a matter of joke.

Originally posted by Gideon
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha. You mean a typical saberthrow that Luke as of RotJ can do? Not impressed, LeGenD.
OT Vader did that and it decimated an entire object with the single blow. Now imagine a Light Saber hitting you in that manner and then tearing your flesh apart. Sounds not very funny.

Originally posted by Gideon
And Dooku pwned Sora Bulq with Force lightning while dueling with another Jedi Master. Sora Bulq who nearly mastered Vaapad and was regarded as Dooku's most formidable acolyte (for a time).
And Malak also did pwned a Jedi Knight with his Lightning.

Now Sora Bulq did not managed to stop the Lightning attack and it shows that how good he really was. I can say that even AOTC Obi-Wan is better then him then because he did managed to block Dooku's Lightning with his Light Saber.

Originally posted by Gideon
And yet it didn't help him against Revan or
It was REVAN (One of the most powerful Force Users in SW mythos) and he might have known a defensive ability that would have protected him against such an attack.

Now prove to me that Dooku can defend against Drain Force attacks.

Originally posted by Gideon
Bullshit logic, once more. Are you like a vending machine of suck-ass arguments? "Malak being inferior to Dooku in the Force? Doubt it!" is not an argument. Dooku is held in higher regard. Period. The source that boasts about his power is higher than the one regarding Malak. Period. Dooku is regarded -- verbatim -- as "one of the very best ever"
and "an even greater" Sith Lord. That's more than you can provide for Malak. Period.
You and some others keep Dooku in higher regard but not all. No where Dooku have been compared to Malak in terms of power.

And when Dooku will demonstrate feats like Drain Force, Force Whirlwind and Stasis Field and Force Choke two jedi simultaneously, then come talk to me.

Originally posted by Gideon
Being weaker in the Force. smile

Check the above two lines.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Where in a G-Canon source it is stated that Dooku is superior to Malak?
Where did Escape even state this? Why are you twisting his words around? He said that the sources speak greater of Dooku than they do of Malak. Now I am one to argue that Malak is superior to Dooku in force usage, but that's a whole different debate/

Why would he need to prove Revan was weak? Do you understand the rules of debate? Shouldn't it be you who proves Revan was strong?

Gameplay mechanics are not canon..

Nor does it make him a force god.

I guess you missed ROTJ when Vader chucked his lightsaber in Luke's direction.

So?

I don't think you understand the concept of proof or burden of proof, honestly.

Why would he? One is basically EU, while the other is Star Wars. Why would they be compared anywhere? Make a point or stop typing.

When you learn to differentiate between canon abilities and gameplay mechanics, people will take you more seriously. And your logic of "Oh he performed feat X and the other guy didn't so he wins", is hilarious. I can just as easily say "when Malak has the ability to force choke someone from the other side of the galaxy, come back and talk to me". See how that makes no sense? Probably not.

Manslayer

can some one answer my question

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Where did Escape even state this? Why are you twisting his words around? He said that the sources speak greater of Dooku than they do of Malak. Now I am one to argue that Malak is superior to Dooku in force usage, but that's a whole different debate
I am not twisting his words. He actually needs to prove here that Dooku was superior to Malak in terms of Force Mastery and for that he needs to point out the relevant canon source in which such thing is stated.

Canon sources have verbally fellated Darth Bandon more then Malak but that does not means that Darth Bandon was better then him.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why would he need to prove Revan was weak? Do you understand the rules of debate? Shouldn't it be you who proves Revan was strong?
It is what he is indirectly trying to say here. Revan was not weak when he engaged Malak on Leviathan. A weak person would never be able to overpower a powerful DLOTS like Malak in a duel. However it is true that Malak overcame him through some impressive Force moves and it shows that his Force attacks were effective even in places where dark side was not strong.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Gameplay mechanics are not canon..
You have got a better source to indicate Malak's power then please refer it to me.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nor does it make him a force god.
Did I ever say so? It however does shows that Malak was strong in the Force and could compete with the likes of OT Vader and Dooku.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I guess you missed ROTJ when Vader chucked his lightsaber in Luke's direction.
I said that OT Vader threw his Light Saber towards the direction of his son but it hit an object and it got destroyed. It shows that TK based Light Saber attacks can be very dangerous.

Malak managed to kill a Jedi Knight instantly by using a similar technique too.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So?
So his Lightning attacks can be lethal too.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't think you understand the concept of proof or burden of proof, honestly.
I am not debating for the first time over here.

It is his job to prove to me that Dooku can withstand Drain Force attacks. Just because Revan managed to do so, it does not mean that Dooku can also do so.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why would he? One is basically EU, while the other is Star Wars. Why would they be compared anywhere? Make a point or stop typing.
He gave me an example to show me that Dooku's Lightning is lethal too. I accept it. But the point is that even medium level Jedi Knights can defend against his Lightning attacks and AOTC Obi-Wan showed to us.

Now it shows that how good Sora Bulq really was, if he got pwned by Dooku's Lightning.

A canon event is a canon event regardless of it taking place in EU or movies.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
When you learn to differentiate between canon abilities and gameplay mechanics, people will take you more seriously. And your logic of "Oh he performed feat X and the other guy didn't so he wins", is hilarious. I can just as easily say "when Malak has the ability to force choke someone from the other side of the galaxy, come back and talk to me". See how that makes no sense? Probably not.
I am using the only two sources available that talk about or show Malak's abilities. You have got a better source to use then please refer it to me.

tulakhordpwns

Originally posted by Manslayer
where did vader exactly choke some one lightyears away?
I am interested in this too.

Allankles

I think they're talking about ESB. Although I can't be suree whether Vader choked the officer from wihin his sheep, an adjacent sheep in the fleet or across light years. Wha is clear though is that Vader's TK is immense, and far more potent than Malak's.

S_W_LeGenD

Actually we don't get to see enough TK abilities of any character in KOTOR game. You can blame it on poor game mechanics, so we can't say for sure that Malak had poor TK abilities.

But since Malak was also strong in the Force and his Force mastery was indeed good, it can be safely assumed that he too could perform decent Telekinetic Force moves. Though OT Vader might be slightly better in this regard but I do not know for sure.

Manslayer

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You have got a better source to indicate Malak's power then please refer it to me. Do you have a better source than gameplay mechanics? Because i myself might as well use gameplay mechanics with the likes of ANH obi wan, sidious and vader whom can easily annihilate 100 rebel soldiers or storm troopers while destroy an entire building with relative ease in empire at war.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I said that OT Vader threw his Light Saber towards the direction of his son but it hit an object and it got destroyed. It shows that TK based Light Saber attacks can be very dangerous.

Malak managed to kill a Jedi Knight instantly by using a similar technique too. And whats your point? A lightsaber always kills a victim when you throw it/hit him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So his Lightning attacks can be lethal too.
And its not like vader cant block it with a lightsaber, Mara jade whom is inferior to vader could block jorus c boaths lightning attack with her lightsaber whom is a master of force lightning

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am using the only two sources available that talk about or show Malak's abilities. You have got a better source to use then please refer it to me. Its you who needs to find a better source as your always so fond of preaching how powerful malak is without backing it up with a reliable source. Your using gameplay mechanics as you yourself admitted

Oh i forgot, going by how you use gameplay to back your sources up, it takes several hits with a lightsaber for malak to actually kill revan when in fact it only takes a stroke of the lightsaber to cleave some one in half

Find a reliable source other than gameplay which is highly ambiguous and non canon.THEN come and debate. Seriously im sick and tired of your kotor fanboyism

Count Makashi

ROTS Vader

1. Vader
2. Malak
3. Vader

OT VADER

1. Tough one to call, although he isn't as good as he was in ROTS, OT Vader is also one of the best swordsman eve, but Malak was good to.

2. Vader- Mastered the Force to the higher degree then Malak, studied under the most powerful Sith Lord ever for 20 years, but Malak has a chance of victory, because of Lightning.

3. Vader, better Force powers, can hold his own in a saber fight(if not win), smarter fighter...

Can Vader block Lightning with his hands?, Dooku blocked his, when Yoda returned it back and Vaders Force mastery is higher then Dookus.
They block Lightning with their hands, but are using the Force, or would Vader get zapped anyway.

darthsith19

He might be able to, but I'd guess no. Cause think about it, Dooku and Sidious shot lightning with their hands, but are using the Force, but Vader would get zapped anyway. Same thing, I believe.

Manslayer

Originally posted by darthsith19
He might be able to, but I'd guess no. Cause think about it, Dooku and Sidious shot lightning with their hands, but are using the Force, but Vader would get zapped anyway. Same thing, I believe. Couldnt he dissipate the lightning with the force? I mean that force dissipate technique shouldnt be beyond his abilities considering that he is very strong in the force and been studying it for a long time.

Shadow of the empire novel did state that vader can use the force to shield him from blaster bolts but im not sure if that can block force based lightning because blocking X doesnt mean you can block Y

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Manslayer
Do you have a better source than gameplay mechanics? Because i myself might as well use gameplay mechanics with the likes of ANH obi wan, sidious and vader whom can easily annihilate 100 rebel soldiers or storm troopers while destroy an entire building with relative ease in empire at war.
What gameplay mechanics?

I have mentioned those Force feats of Malak that he have demonstrated in cutscenes in KOTOR. Now those Force feats are 100% canon.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And whats your point? A lightsaber always kills a victim when you throw it/hit him.
That's a plus point for Malak. He can throw Light Saber with great precision towards his targets.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And its not like vader cant block it with a lightsaber, Mara jade whom is inferior to vader could block jorus c boaths lightning attack with her lightsaber whom is a master of force lightning
OT Vader does not have a pure living body. His mechanical body parts are still vulnerable. And it is not necessary that Malak will always target his Lightning towards same spot towards Vader. He can look forward to exploit any signs of vulnerabilities during duels.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Its you who needs to find a better source as your always so fond of preaching how powerful malak is without backing it up with a reliable source. Your using gameplay mechanics as you yourself admitted
No!

We are talking about a character whose powers and feats have been described or shown in two sources yet:

1) KOTOR
2) DSSB

When some more sources will be available. Then we will use them.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Oh i forgot, going by how you use gameplay to back your sources up, it takes several hits with a lightsaber for malak to actually kill revan when in fact it only takes a stroke of the lightsaber to cleave some one in half
Now this is what I would term as using pure gameplay mechanics in debates. You need to understand the difference between pure gameplay mechanics and Malak's Force feats that he demonstrated during cutscenes, in which his Force powers seem to make a major impact on his foes like they should.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Find a reliable source other than gameplay which is highly ambiguous and non canon.THEN come and debate. Seriously im sick and tired of your kotor fanboyism
You find one and then inform me.

It is a matter of my personal choice, if I debate for any particular SW character in this forum. You will have to deal with it or stop responding to my posts.

Manslayer

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What gameplay mechanics?

I have mentioned those Force feats of Malak that he have demonstrated in cutscenes in KOTOR. Now those Force feats are 100% canon. Those force feats were based of gameplay mechanics, really there is no attack such as "force whirlwind".

Its a gameplay mechanic term

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

That's a plus point for Malak. He can throw Light Saber with great precision towards his targets. Right like vader cant do the same, so what if he can throw his saber in great precision? Its a typical saber throw where even bastila could do

That will leave malak exposed to vaders force attacks. And its easy enough to just get out of range.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

OT Vader does not have a pure living body. His mechanical body parts are still vulnerable. And it is not necessary that Malak will always target his Lightning towards same spot towards Vader. He can look forward to exploit any signs of vulnerabilities during duels. And its not like vader *doesnt* have a lightsaber to block out his lightning which AOTC obi wan was able to do to dookus lightning whom was described as one of the orders most powerful.

We have seen mara jade, some one inferior to vader blocking jorus, some one who has mastered lightning to a very high degree block his lightning with slightly more effort than what AOTC obi wan did.

Vader can die from malaks lightning? Malak himself will get crushed the moment vader executes his telekenetic crush attack which wtf pwnd a super thick steel door and annihilated a medical room by just lashing out with his anger.

He will do even more damage if he uses it as a technique

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

We are talking about a character whose powers and feats have been described or shown in two sources yet:

1) KOTOR
Ok iv seen this one but seriously? Your going to take what? A few of malaks feats and dispute that he has better force mastery and strength in the force than vader? Keep trying

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Now this is what I would term as using pure gameplay mechanics in debates.
You HAVE used pure gameplay mechanics before legend and if i recall correctly you have recently.

"Zomg! Nihilus absorbed exiles force attacks! few force powers worked!" And you gave me a link to that video which turned out to be pure gameplay

"ZOMG! Vrook was hard to kill! So it means he is very p0wd3rf00l!!!!! becuz g@m3 pl@y !$ teh Onlay w@y to D3t3rM!ne H!$ $tr3ngth!!!!!"

Right, which is why i find you very unreliable when it comes to debates. I have serious doubts in what you claim because
1) You exaggerate immensely

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You need to understand the difference between pure gameplay mechanics and Malak's Force feats that he demonstrated during cutscenes, in which his Force powers seem to make a major impact on his foes like they should. Lol "major" impact it is, your very right legend, He killed a jedi with a lightsaber, big deal

And he killed a dying jedi with lightning, the one struck by his lightning was already having his life squeezed out of him and by observing the way he tries to move: he has no fighting spirit left at all and theres also the fact that the jedi he killed was weak, Nothing indicates him of being anywhere half as strong as bulter swan in the force

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It is not a matter of my personal choice, if I debate for any particular kotor character in this forum. You, Darth sexy and gideon will have to respond to my posts. Fixed

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Manslayer
Those force feats were based of gameplay mechanics, really there is no attack such as "force whirlwind".

Its a gameplay mechanic term
Really?

DSSB lists Force Whirlwind as a Force feat of Malak.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right like vader cant do the same, so what if he can throw his saber in great precision?
OT Vader can also do it. I do know this.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Its a typical saber throw where even bastila could do
And Malak managed to counter it, which was also impressive.

Originally posted by Manslayer
That will leave malak exposed to vaders force attacks. And its easy enough to just get out of range.
It's more easy for Malak to do so because he is not a cyborg.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And its not like vader *doesnt* have a lightsaber to block out his lightning which AOTC obi wan was able to do to dookus lightning whom was described as one of the orders most powerful.
Indeed he can do so. But like I said before, it depends upon the circumstances as well. If Malak manages to distract Vader, then he can take advantage of that distraction and use his Lightning on him.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Vader can die from malaks lightning?
OT Vader will surely die from Malak's Lightning if he gets hit by it. His mechanical body is what makes him vulnerable.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak himself will get crushed the moment vader executes his telekenetic crush attack which wtf pwnd a super thick steel door and annihilated a medical room by just lashing out with his anger.
Vader can ovecome Malak through his Force Crush ability. I have already acknowledged this.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Ok iv seen this one but seriously? Your going to take what? A few of malaks feats and dispute that he has better force mastery and strength in the force than vader? Keep trying
He knows some techniques that Vader does not. Then Vader also knows some techniques that Malak does not. Though Malak can compete with the likes of OT Vader and Dooku in the Force.

Originally posted by Manslayer
You HAVE used pure gameplay mechanics before legend and if i recall correctly you have recently.
Not in this debate.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right, which is why i find you very unreliable when it comes to debates. I have serious doubts in what you claim because
And I find you very unreliable when it comes to the subject of OT Vader because you always use one-sided points regarding him.

You fail to realize that both Malak and Vader can kill each other. It is not that Vader will always win and same can be said about Malak.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol "major" impact it is, your very right legend, He killed a jedi with a lightsaber, big deal
I am indeed right regarding my assertion.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And he killed a dying jedi with lightning, the one struck by his lightning was already having his life squeezed out of him and by observing the way he tries to move: he has no fighting spirit left at all and theres also the fact that the jedi he killed was weak, Nothing indicates him of being anywhere half as strong as bulter swan in the force
That is your assumption. If Malak wanted to kill them through the Force Choke, he would have done so. He did not had to use his others techniques on them.

Manslayer

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Really?

DSSB lists Force Whirlwind as a Force feat of Malak.
I concede this point
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

OT Vader can also do it. I do know this.
Any one can
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Malak managed to counter it, which was also impressive/
LOL and ROTJ luke whom isnt that great with the force being inferior to both vader and malak evaded vaders saber throw.

Not impressive seeing inferior jedi do it easily. If i recall malak actually got hit but it merely scarred his arm. Thats simply because bastila has got nothing to show with the lightsaber

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It's more easy for Malak to do so because he is not a cyborg. Right you forgot how agile vader is even in his current state

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Indeed he can do so. But like I said before, it depends upon the circumstances as well. If Malak manages to distract Vader, then he can take advantage of that distraction and use his Lightning on him.
You seem to forget vaders precognition. It wouldnt be so easy to merely distract him because roan shryne attempted to do the same thing i believe but in the end failed. Just that he tried to shut up vaders control box manually.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

OT Vader will surely die from Malak's Lightning if he gets hit by it. His mechanical body is what makes him vulnerable.
Actually it isnt the mechanical part on his limbs, its the machine which helps him breathe which will shut down when he gets struck by lightning.

Malak too will surely die when he gets struck by one of vaders telekenetic attacks. Now if that stupid website swtimeline.ru isnt down, id be more than happy to post scans which shows that vaders telekenesis attacks are impressive and surpasses that of malak.

For one he flung tark effortlessly , a cyborg up 30-60 feet into the air and caused a massive dent in the interior of the star destroyer avenger.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Vader can ovecome Malak through his Force Crush ability. I have already acknowledged this.
To be honest in a pure force fight timing is critical. Vader doesnt have his lightsaber and if malak wins the pure force fight, it is only due to his lightning.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He knows some techniques that Vader does not. Then Vader also knows some techniques that Malak does not. Though Malak can compete with the likes of OT Vader and Dooku in the Force. Vaders strength and mastery of the force > malaks. So, just because malak knows X and vader doesnt means malak can even compete with vader?

Sad to tell you, before you ramble that malaks force whirlwind is so almighty and will place vader in danger, vader has the force wave technique which in many instances can be even more dangerous than a force whirl wind technique and he has demonstrated this technique shortly after the battle of yavin when he crash landed on a planet

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And I find you very unreliable when it comes to the subject of OT Vader because you always use one-sided points regarding him.
Uh one sided? I acknowledged the fact that malak can kill him in a pure force fight provided he strikes with lightning first.

One sided am i? No, Short sided are you? Yes!

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You fail to realize that both Malak and Vader can kill each other. It is not that Vader will always win and same can be said about Malak. True true but the odds of vader winning are greater than malaks given his force strength, lightsaber skill, battle tactics, intelligence and mastery of the force

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am indeed right regarding my assertion. And it is relevant how? A lightsaber always kills its victims when you know how to use it

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

That is your assumption. If Malak wanted to kill them through the Force Choke, he would have done so. He did not had to use his others techniques on them. Right what ever they were, they were already dying by the time he got them in a choke hold. Besides they had to go through several dark jedi, soldiers and droids to get to malak and by the time they got there,

It is safe to assume they lost they energy and stamina which severely affects their performance

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Manslayer
Any one can
Yes! But the level of precision and speed is determined by the level of control exhibited on that action by the particular person.

Originally posted by Manslayer
LOL and ROTJ luke whom isnt that great with the force being inferior to both vader and malak evaded vaders saber throw.
The Light Saber never hit Luke.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Not impressive seeing inferior jedi do it easily. If i recall malak actually got hit but it merely scarred his arm. Thats simply because bastila has got nothing to show with the lightsaber
Bastilla has got nothing to show with the Light Saber is an under-statement. She was not an idiot.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right you forgot how agile vader is even in his current state
He is far less agile as half-machine. Malak however have no such restrictions.

Originally posted by Manslayer
You seem to forget vaders precognition. It wouldnt be so easy to merely distract him because roan shryne attempted to do the same thing i believe but in the end failed. Just that he tried to shut up vaders control box manually.
And you think that Malak lacks precognitive abilities? Vader's precognition is not infallible. He can make mistakes too.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Actually it isnt the mechanical part on his limbs, its the machine which helps him breathe which will shut down when he gets struck by lightning.
And that will be the end of him.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak too will surely die when he gets struck by one of vaders telekenetic attacks. Now if that stupid website swtimeline.ru isnt down, id be more than happy to post scans which shows that vaders telekenesis attacks are impressive and surpasses that of malak.
And Malak cannot deflect or counter Force moves, right?

Originally posted by Manslayer
For one he flung tark effortlessly , a cyborg up 30-60 feet into the air and caused a massive dent in the interior of the star destroyer avenger.
That is indeed impressive.

Originally posted by Manslayer
To be honest in a pure force fight timing is critical. Vader doesnt have his lightsaber and if malak wins the pure force fight, it is only due to his lightning.
I agree that in a pure Force fight, timing is indeed critical.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Vaders strength and mastery of the force > malaks. So, just because malak knows X and vader doesnt means malak can even compete with vader?
Malak also knows some techniques that Vader does not, so that makes them even.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sad to tell you, before you ramble that malaks force whirlwind is so almighty and will place vader in danger, vader has the force wave technique which in many instances can be even more dangerous than a force whirl wind technique and he has demonstrated this technique shortly after the battle of yavin when he crash landed on a planet
Force Whirlwind is different from Force Wave. It works like a voilent rotating wind around you and will cause distraction long enough for Malak to take advantage.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Uh one sided? I acknowledged the fact that malak can kill him in a pure force fight provided he strikes with lightning first.
Fair enough.

Originally posted by Manslayer
True true but the odds of vader winning are greater than malaks given his force strength, lightsaber skill, battle tactics, intelligence and mastery of the force
You should note that Malak is more agile and will duel more effectively with a Light Saber then the OT Vader.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And it is relevant how? A lightsaber always kills its victims when you know how to use it
Malak knows how to use it.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right what ever they were, they were already dying by the time he got them in a choke hold. Besides they had to go through several dark jedi, soldiers and droids to get to malak and by the time they got there,
They were not dying but were struggling to get free from Malak's Force Choke but could not do so.

Originally posted by Manslayer
It is safe to assume they lost they energy and stamina which severely affects their performance
They could use the Force to replenish themselves. That is one benefit for being a Force User.

Manslayer

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes! But the level of precision and speed is determined by the level of control exhibited on that action by the particular person.
Right and vader surpasses malak in that seeing that vader is an even better dueler
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The Light Saber never hit Luke. Because luke moved. So can vader, so can anybody for that matter

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Bastilla has got nothing to show with the Light Saber is an under-statement. She was not an idiot.
She couldnt harm malak or any powerhouse for that matter
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He is far less agile as half-machine. Malak however have no such restrictions.
Doesnt mean vader *cant* evade it
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And you think that Malak lacks precognitive abilities? Vader's precognition is not infallible. He can make mistakes too. And i am going to refute that. By the way do you even have any proof that malaks precognitive abilities are even on the level of vaders?

Heres something to hand you your ass claiming vader will make mistakes despite his level in precognition. When has malak ever demonstrated precognition? Right, never. Assume all you want because it is all speculation.

This is backed up by the omniscient narrator

Time and again the two jedi knights attempted to alter their style, but vader had an answer for every lunge. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest,most dangerous levels, his moves were crisp and unpredictable.
In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate Forte's and kulka's strategies and maneuvers.

Source RODV, Vaders precognition is alot greater than malaks, its been proven, accept it and move on legend, and before you claim vader will make mistakes. Just what is there to even indicate that he will make mistakes against somebody who is a dangerous opponent?

Do you have anything to back it up? Or are you speculating.... as usual.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And that will be the end of him. You seem to forget vaders holding a lightsaber, Iv handed your ass to you about this issue several time. And i shall keep repeating myself

We have seen mara jade, some one inferior to vader blocking jorus, some one who has mastered lightning to a very high degree block his lightning with slightly more effort than what AOTC obi wan did.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Malak cannot deflect or counter Force moves, right? Can you prove that he can defend against a killing force crush? Did he even demonstrate creating a shield around him to block out force attacks?

Or are you attempting and planning to speculate that malak will automatically counter vaders moves? Because if you are trying to do that, i can say the very same thing that vader will counter all of malaks techniques

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I agree that in a pure Force fight, timing is indeed critical. This is true

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Malak knows some techniques that Vader does not, so that makes them even. Bad analogy, Knowing a couple of techniques more than your opponent doesnt make you greater or equal to some one who has tremendous strength in the force, has higher mastery and greater proficiency in the force.

I might as well dispute dark side bastila > darth tyranus because she knows BM, force stun and a couple of other force powers that dooku doesnt know.

Very very bad analogy legend , Then i guess the night sisters in dathomir would be more powerful or prehaps equal to vader because they know force lightning and force drain which vader doesnt know.

I also guess it means plo koon is equal or greater than vader because he knows lightside lightning and vader doesnt.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force Whirlwind is different from Force Wave. It works like a voilent rotating wind around you and will cause distraction long enough for Malak to take advantage. Did i say they are the same? Ok so what, big deal that whirlwind twirls you around and leaves you exposed, Force wave can blow you back even as far as 50-100 feet and break every bone in your body as vader did to some thug who harrased him when he was looking for a jedi with boba fett.

Even if the wave doesnt manage to break your bones when you fall back on something, you will get dazed out and take a few mere seconds to recover which will give vader the opportunity he needs to execute his force crush which is instantaneous and devastating.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You should note that Malak is more agile and will duel more effectively with a Light Saber then the OT Vader. Your actually wrong in one part. Theres enough evidence to put vader as a greater dueler than malak. And it occurs to me just about every body agreed in this thread vaders the better dueler

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Malak knows how to use it. So does any jedi, sith or force adept.

"Malak knows how to use it" doesnt mean shit especially when every force user knows how to use it

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They were not dying but were struggling to get free from Malak's Force Choke but could not do so.
Yes they were, the one getting choked.

Observe him and you will notice he is gasping for air and when you go w/o oxygen for a time being, you lose conciousness and thus lowers your resistence and defence thus allowing your opponent to gain the upper hand

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They could use the Force to replenish themselves. That is one benefit for being a Force User. Doesnt mean they havnt lost most of their strength by the time they reached malak. Oh and who knows, malak could have got a hold of them even before they replenish themselves