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Professor Hojo has somehow managed to reincarnate Clouds old friend Zack Fair, once SOLDIER's best.
Zack is confused, but Hojo tricks him into believing Cloud is responsible for his death, and that when he was gone he killed Aeris.
Zack is enraged and armed with 'Hojos' version of the Buster Sword (An exact equal).

The two battle at the place where Zack originally died.

Takes place slightly after Advent Children.

NO MAGIC OR SUMMONING, STRAIGHT HAND TO HAND COMBAT

ZACK FAIR
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/f9/CC-Zack-Render.png

VERSUS

CLOUD STRYFE
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Cloud_Strife_art.jpg/200px-Cloud_Strife_art.jpg

Hojo died though.....but ooookay

Cloud probably wins. He defeated Sephiroth who was toying with him

Sephiroth broke poor Zack when he was toying with him

Very very close, but I'll go with Cloud.

OMG HE DID DIE!!
Uhh, he had him in hibernation or somethin'. Don't really matter, aslong as they fight. And one dies.

I'd take Zack.

Why? Because Cloud mostly copied Zack's moves.

And...Sephiroth toyed with Zack, but he toyed with Cloud even more. Heck if it wasn't for Sephiroth's stupid underestimating of Cloud; Mr. Strife would have never been able to defeat him. Only real fight between Cloud and Sephiroth was their first encounter...and even then Cloud managed to severely **** Sephiroth because he took him off guard.

And...I think that seeing Zack alive would completely ruin Cloud's morale which would grant Zack the window of opportunity to defeat him.

In any case the fight will be close.

Zack would win.

Emotions...Zack would win


no emotions

Cloud would cooter stomp Zack.

And you are?

Zack has no chance, Zack is basically as skilled as Cloud at the beginning of FFVII without learning his limit breaks, and the gained experience he's had over FFVII.

Btw, Zack was never "SOLDIERs best" that title has always been to Sephiroth.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Zack has no chance, Zack is basically as skilled as Cloud at the beginning of FFVII without learning his limit breaks, and the gained experience he's had over FFVII.

Btw, Zack was never "SOLDIERs best" that title has always been to Sephiroth.

Bullshit. Zack was much more skilled than Cloud at the beginning of FFVII. For starters we see Zack perform Blade Beam on Sephiroth during their fight in Nibelheim's Mako reactor. At the end of FFVII Cloud might be stronger, but that is not a fact.

Funny tip...Sephiroth toyed around with Zack, but he was smart enough to quickly get the job done. What does that tell you? That he considered Zack a threat. Otherwise he would've just continued to fool and toy around with Zack like he did Cloud later. Not to mention Zack was emotionally attached to Sephiroth. Zack could have killed Sephiroth without trouble, but being the goody 2 shoes friend that he is, he hesitated. Cloud in the other hand only knows hatred towards the man that burnt down his village, killed Aerith and manipulated him.

If the fight goes in character Cloud will lose plain and square. God knows what Zack's reappearance might do to Cloud. He would probably orgasm, or become catatonic, or emo...heck you name it.

There was a ShinRa president?

Well in my opinion of the game, i though Cloud became stronger than Zack when he beat Sephiroth after the victory over Safer Sephiroth. But thats just me, i can understand why others believe otherwise

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
There was a ShinRa president?

Yes. There have been 2 of them. President ShinRa whom Sephiroth/Jenova killed in the ShinRa building, and Rufis ShinRa who became president after his father's death.

Originally posted by Remindme
Well in my opinion of the game, i though Cloud became stronger than Zack when he beat Sephiroth after the victory over Safer Sephiroth. But thats just me, i can understand why others believe otherwise

That would be the case if Cloud did not fight Bizarro & Seifer Sephiroth with Barret, Tifa, Cid, Cait Sith, Vincent & Yuffie. The ultimania guide also states Cloud's final battle with Sephiroth was a mental one. So that has little relevance to Cloud being superior to Zack.

Yeah, but I'm the kind of person who think if you belive you can do it you can. Cloud believes he can beat Sephiroth, and he has. Whereas poor Zack is stuck with reality.

Beating Sephiroth weather he's playing with you or not is a great feat. Better than any of Zacks. My flawed logic i know, but....

Originally posted by Remindme
Yeah, but I'm the kind of person who think if you belive you can do it you can. Cloud believes he can beat Sephiroth, and he has. Whereas poor Zack is stuck with reality.

Beating Sephiroth weather he's playing with you or not is a great feat. Better than any of Zacks. My flawed logic i know, but....

Cloud is the protagonist of FFVII and Advent Children. Therefor he has Plot Induced Stupidity to back him up. Unfortunately Zack is just a supporting character, and therefor he does not have PIS in his arsenal. As a result Zack gets pawned by Sephiroth while Cloud is given multiple chances to piss all over Sephiroth's grave.

R.I.P Zack.

Zack should win this fight but due to Cloud being the main protagonist, he would win.... or they would allie... Zack was in every way supirior prior to Clouds enhancement (the attempted cloning of Sephiroth Genes in him). Cloud was still only able to barely beat Sephiroth when he was toying with him, Zack lost of course to Sephiroth but Sephiroth at the time was not toying with him, he calls him a traitor and then hits him with relative aggression. Zack has also shown the ability to dodge bullets where as Cloud goes down to one and only deflect them with his wall of a sword. Then again, we have Cloud cleaving through millions of tons of cement and metal.

Exactly. Sephiroth was clearly pissed when he fought Zack. The only instance we can claim Sephiroth toyed with Zack was when he deflected Zack's blade beam with the masamune as if it was nothing. But then again that does not mean he was toying around. Its just that Sephiroth was so superior that Zack's limit break meant nothing to him. Sephiroth was not ****ing around when he fought Zack.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Cloud is the protagonist of FFVII and Advent Children. Therefor he has Plot Induced Stupidity to back him up. Unfortunately Zack is just a supporting character, and therefor he does not have PIS in his arsenal. As a result Zack gets pawned by Sephiroth while Cloud is given multiple chances to piss all over Sephiroth's grave.

Merely that as protagonist he has been allowed to become much stronger. Stronger than Zack, his friend had been.

After all, Omnislash is a much most powerful attack that anything I myself have seen Zack do.

Originally posted by Remindme
Merely that as protagonist he has been allowed to become much stronger. Stronger than Zack, his friend had been.

After all, Omnislash is a much most powerful attack that anything I myself have seen Zack do.

Zack was killed. God knows how strong Zack might have become had he not been killed while he was saving Cloud's ass.

After all Omnislash is the biggest plot induced stupidity element in all of FFVII. Sure...I throw swords in mid-air and my nemesis who is leagues above me has no other option but to become catatonic while I begin to hammer him with the swords. Cloud wins because of PIS. Nothing more. Replace Cloud's role in FFVII's plot with Zack and we would have the same results. The protagonist defeating evil.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Bullshit. Zack was much more skilled than Cloud at the beginning of FFVII. For starters we see Zack perform Blade Beam on Sephiroth during their fight in Nibelheim's Mako reactor. At the end of FFVII Cloud might be stronger, but that is not a fact.

Funny tip...Sephiroth toyed around with Zack, but he was smart enough to quickly get the job done. What does that tell you? That he considered Zack a threat. Otherwise he would've just continued to fool and toy around with Zack like he did Cloud later. Not to mention Zack was emotionally attached to Sephiroth. Zack could have killed Sephiroth without trouble, but being the goody 2 shoes friend that he is, he hesitated. Cloud in the other hand only knows hatred towards the man that burnt down his village, killed Aerith and manipulated him.

If the fight goes in character Cloud will lose plain and square. God knows what Zack's reappearance might do to Cloud. He would probably orgasm, or become catatonic, or emo...heck you name it.

Thats stupid, Zack could have killed Sephiroth without any trouble? Sephiroth was known as by far the greatest SOLDIER ever, Zack was just known as a 1st class SOLDIER, Blade beam is a low level limit, its the 3rd one u learn, and sephiroth smacked like it was nothing.

Zack wanted to kill Sephiroth he says to Tifa: "Please let me atone for my sins" *Pulls out Buster Sword and goes toward Sephiroth* which means he'll kill Sephiroth for what he did to Tifa's village

To say that Sephiroth toyed with Zack even more is just assumption, he clearly toyed with both, but it seemed like he toyed with Cloud even more.

Against Zack all he did was talk his usual bullshit, while just throwing a few swings, which even looked like he was doing most of his slashes with one hand, Zack looked like he couldn't even hold onto his sword, and couldn't fight back cuz he was on the defensive so much, Zack couldn't react to sephiroth either, and after about 8 sword swings, Zack was out of the fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAfTchSPEfU
watch the fight urself

Then compare to Clouds fight with an even stronger Sephiroth, Cloud was able to block, and attack back with powerful force, react and follow sephiroths movements, even those surprise attacks out of nowhere that he does that put Zack out for the count when Zack failed to react in time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VrfaThIYQs

By the end of AC, Cloud learned to get over aeris, his past and everything, he was fine, if both Zack and Cloud fought, Zack would lose plain and simple

Zack had the Buster Sword inches away from Sephiroth's neck. Does that not tell you he could have just as easily killed Sephiroth instead of asking him WTF was wrong with him.

And I disagree. Cloud was fine at the end of FFVII, and then we find out 2 years later that Geostigma caused him to go back to being a stupid emo. Imagine what Zack's reappearance would do to him. Zack would be going out bloodlusted while Cloud will probably not even fight back.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Zack was killed. God knows how strong Zack might have become had he not been killed while he was saving Cloud's ass.

After all Omnislash is the biggest plot induced stupidity element in all of FFVII. Sure...I throw swords in mid-air and my nemesis who is leagues above me has no other option but to become catatonic while I begin to hammer him with the swords. Cloud wins because of PIS. Nothing more. Replace Cloud's role in FFVII's plot with Zack and we would have the same results. The protagonist defeating evil.

It's kinda irrelevent if it's stupid or not, it's a skill that puts Cloud ahead of Zack. Thats kind of end of story from my point of veiw.

Why are you rambling on about the what if Zack lived? (It's kind of irrelevent to the debate isn't it?)

In a nutshell, either Sephiroth would veiw the team as a true threat and they'd all have been slaughtered. Or one of the best twists would have been stolen from us, the hero would not be emo in anyway, and Sephiroth would never have got the black materia.

Decided to not be quite so agresive, eh Prime?

^ Unlike Cloud, Sephiroth knew Zack was there, he was talking to him while Zack entered, if Zack swung at him Sephiroth would most likely dodge it, Zack just lifted up his sword at him and he knew that.

At the end of FFVII he was still emo thinking about Aeris, he claims "Lets go meet her".

Originally posted by Remindme
It's kinda irrelevent if it's stupid or not, it's a skill that puts Cloud ahead of Zack. Thats kind of end of story from my point of veiw.

Trying to rationalize PIS is as pointless as tring to cover the sun with your thumb.

Originally posted by Remindme

Why are you rambling on about the what if Zack lived? (It's kind of irrelevent to the debate isn't it?)

Yeah. But then again so is Cloud's ability to make Sephiroth brainfart. And I wasn't rambling on. I just made the comment. Its not like I assaulted you with 5 paragraphs.


Originally posted by Remindme

In a nutshell, either Sephiroth would veiw the team as a true threat and they'd all have been slaughtered. Or one of the best twists would have been stolen from us, the hero would not be emo in anyway, and Sephiroth would never have got the black materia.

Trust me if I met the guy who has spoiled my plans for world domination 2 times in a row I would consider him a ****ing threat.