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All out fight between Darth Caedus and Darth Sidious (DE) vs Luke Skywalker (LotF).

like i said during the jacen and tahiri vs luke thread, luke will win, it won't be easy for him but he will win if it's all out.

Luke beat DE sid's already, yes with minor help from leia's battle meditation, but luke is far more powerful now then he was during DE.

throw Caedus in there and luke will have to start trying not to be killed but still will beat both of them.

Actually, a lot of Luke's combat feats during DE still compete with his NJO and Dark Nest incarnations.

i'm not saying they don't but you can't argue that luke isn't significantly more powerful now

Against both of them? Luke will most likely go down, if not win with incredible difficulty.

it'll be tough........real tough to win but he will,

darth sexy y do you believe he'll go down?

Based on feats? Yes, I can. There is a massive power gap in between DE and LotF. Very few instances in between does he demonstrate the power exhibited in DE.



Because either one of them can and will give him a hard time in a lightsaber duel. Assuming Luke gets serious and decides to punk Jacen with the Force, he will still have to contend with Sidious. Saber-wise? He gets his ass handed to him (but only because there are two of them). Force-wise? Jacen gets punked, but Sidious and Luke in a Force fight would be a while.

saberwise? how so during the battle of yuzzantar he was described as a maelstrom of force energy wielding 10 or twenty blades at a time. how can jacen and sides keep up with him?

then again i'm assuming luke's intention is to kill them like he did lumiya.

if he's in that state of mind he will win. not by any easy means but he would.

During Jacen's battle with Luke, both of them were wielding a lightsaber "faster than the eye could follow" which -- to me -- is superior than looking like he's "wielding ten or twenty blades at a time". In his last duel with the Emperor, he moved faster than the eye could follow (as did Palpatine) and Leia could only feel "waves" of Force energy.



You assumed correctly.



In a saber fight? No, he won't. He won't win at all. In a Force fight? He'd punk Jacen and probably beat Sidious, but that'd be a while.

But wasn't it Jania Solo who said that Luke's blades looked like twenty at once? That statement coming from a Force User is far more incredible than it is coming from a non-force user. Also, one is so fast you can't follow it - the other looks like the blade is in 20 spots at once. It's hard to say for sure, but remember, Bane, Kas'im, Mace, ROTS Sidious - they can move their blades so fast that they become blurs, and "faster than the eye can follow" and "blur" seem pretty even to me.

Has there been some recent retcon in which Leia Skywalker is not a Force-user?



Lemme find my copy of Inferno and I'll give you the exact quote, but the point is that NJO Luke does not outclass his DE self by any means, though I will grant you that the benefit of experience and control has helped him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Has there been some recent retcon in which Leia Skywalker is not a Force-user?



Lemme find my copy of Inferno and I'll give you the exact quote, but the point is that NJO Luke does not outclass his DE self by any means, though I will grant you that the benefit of experience and control has helped him.

so you believe that after 15 years of further training that luke didn't get any better? well your wrong, just flat out wrong, to believe that is asinine.

One of the few instances where Luke goes down.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
so you believe that after 15 years of further training that luke didn't get any better? well your wrong, just flat out wrong, to believe that is asinine.

I would deeply appreciate it if you would remain civil. I'm not here to exchange insults or labels of stupidity.

Instead, why don't you devote your wit and time to accumulating some evidence in favor of Luke rather than dodge the issue and call others asinine for providing more proof than you're bringing to bear. The fact remains that the feats Luke exhibited during the Dark Empire saga do indeed compare to those of his New Jedi Order, Dark Nest, and Legacy of the Force incarnations -- indeed there are moments in DE where he has exhibited more power and better technique.

I'm not suggesting that he hasn't improved. But how much? The passage of time does not necessarily dictate that he has improved dramatically.

When you start naming feats and sources and proving me wrong, we'll debate it further. Otherwise? I see no reason to post; I've debated my side. Luke will go down after a moderate lightsaber duel. He'll punk Jacen with the Force and likely -- after an intense fight -- beat Sidious.

I'm not really sure what you're saying, but Luke DID improve from DE to the NJO. He achieved more control, and more mastery over the force, as well as various new techniques.

Which is why years after DE Luke struggles with a droideka.

This is a close battle.

Originally posted by Gideon
I would deeply appreciate it if you would remain civil. I'm not here to exchange insults or labels of stupidity.

Instead, why don't you devote your wit and time to accumulating some evidence in favor of Luke rather than dodge the issue and call others asinine for providing more proof than you're bringing to bear. The fact remains that the feats Luke exhibited during the Dark Empire saga do indeed compare to those of his New Jedi Order, Dark Nest, and Legacy of the Force incarnations -- indeed there are moments in DE where he has exhibited more power and better technique.

I'm not suggesting that he hasn't improved. But how much? The passage of time does not necessarily dictate that he has improved dramatically.

When you start naming feats and sources and proving me wrong, we'll debate it further. Otherwise? I see no reason to post; I've debated my side. Luke will go down after a moderate lightsaber duel. He'll punk Jacen with the Force and likely -- after an intense fight -- beat Sidious.

first of sorry. i didn't mean to not be civil it's been a weird day i'll leave it at that.

anyway read all of lukes talents on wookieepedia, mainly where it explains how he takes on 5 slayers where no one else good best 1 and when he defeated lomi plo with his off hand. I believe those feats alone say enough for his saber skills and show how after a hard battle luke would beat caedous and sids.

not to mention that after he thought lumiya killed mara he just Pwned her with ease and in like 1 minute. when he want's someone dead they die because he's just that good. I know i may be coming off like a fanboy but i really don't like luke a whole bunch it's just the authors have made him this good.

and ya luke's feats in DE can compare to his later one's but to believe that over 15 years he hasn't gotten significantly better doesn't make sense.

also i do have some bias for jacen i don't think he's as powerful as most of you think.

Luke's isn't invincible. He's not some king of the Force that no one can touch. He definately can be beaten.

I think he's going to lose here. Sidious alone would push him to the limits of his power. Jacen can hold his own against Luke with a saber and I don't believe Luke would be able to merely pwn Jacen with the Force.

You don't believe Luke would merely pwn Jacen with the force? Someone hasn't read Inferno..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You don't believe Luke would merely pwn Jacen with the force? Someone hasn't read Inferno..
Yes, if Luke and Jacen are separated by enough space Luke would be able to pwn Jacen with the force. But would he be able to pin Jacen with the force while fighting Sidious? No. And once this fight becomes a lightsaber duel, Luke is going to have to get Jacen out of the fight before he can use the force on him. He cannot effectively use the force on Caedus while their lightsaber blades are flashing faster than the eye can see and Sidious is also facing him. In Luke and Caedus's fight on the Anakin Solo Luke isn't able to use the force on Jacen until after he pokes his eye out and Jacen is spinning to protect his blind side. The other time he uses the force against Caedus is when he is running away.

Caedus and Sidious will win.