The Rock or Stone Cold?

Alpha Centauri

Admittedly when The Rock said he'd always be WWF, then took off for Hollywood, I felt a bit baffled. It seemed a bit like selling out.

Then he came back as something more than a moderately funny catchphrase machine, and became an actually hilarious performer. It's only then did we all (Or most of us) realise just how much the WWE needed him AND Austin, because without them it was real name people in their generic ring get up with shitty personas.

Austin, like him or not, had people glued to the TV, new AND old fans, because him and McMahon has an amazing, long time feud that made great shows. It was never a question of "Hmm, do I wanna bother with the PPV?". It was "F*ck! I have to get the PPV!". You HAD to see what happened next. It was the soap opera part of professional wrestling, at its peak.

I'm not seeing as many unified generations of wrestling fans supporting Cena or Orton.

I will say it as I always have; the downfall of WWE was set in motion when The Rock and Austin started leaving, then when WWE decided Eddie and Chavo were worthy of belts. As soon as those two mid-card stereotypes were allowed into the top flight, everyone was.

There was no hype of "Ooo! Intercontinental division has some great talent, wonder who'll be next champ!". Then the next thing you know, Wrestlemania is Batista Vs Rey Mysterio for the title.

The Rock and Austin made it the best, and the other guys who go largely uncredited? Mick Foley and yes, Triple H.

When Triple H was feuding with The Rock, it was the like the I.C. equal of McMahon Vs Austin (Which, at the time, started as Austin Vs Taker, legendary Summerslam '98 match, check it out). Then him and Foley took it to new levels, then he got lazy.

It's all about Vince now, it sucks.

That said, people need to stop complaining AND watching. Either watch and stop moaning or don't watch and complain.

-AC

DigiMark007

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Admittedly when The Rock said he'd always be WWF, then took off for Hollywood, I felt a bit baffled. It seemed a bit like selling out.

Then he came back as something more than a moderately funny catchphrase machine, and became an actually hilarious performer. It's only then did we all (Or most of us) realise just how much the WWE needed him AND Austin, because without them it was real name people in their generic ring get up with shitty personas.

Austin, like him or not, had people glued to the TV, new AND old fans, because him and McMahon has an amazing, long time feud that made great shows. It was never a question of "Hmm, do I wanna bother with the PPV?". It was "F*ck! I have to get the PPV!". You HAD to see what happened next. It was the soap opera part of professional wrestling, at its peak.

I'm not seeing as many unified generations of wrestling fans supporting Cena or Orton.

I will say it as I always have; the downfall of WWE was set in motion when The Rock and Austin started leaving, then when WWE decided Eddie and Chavo were worthy of belts. As soon as those two mid-card stereotypes were allowed into the top flight, everyone was.

There was no hype of "Ooo! Intercontinental division has some great talent, wonder who'll be next champ!". Then the next thing you know, Wrestlemania is Batista Vs Rey Mysterio for the title.

The Rock and Austin made it the best, and the other guys who go largely uncredited? Mick Foley and yes, Triple H.

When Triple H was feuding with The Rock, it was the like the I.C. equal of McMahon Vs Austin (Which, at the time, started as Austin Vs Taker, legendary Summerslam '98 match, check it out). Then him and Foley took it to new levels, then he got lazy.

It's all about Vince now, it sucks.

That said, people need to stop complaining AND watching. Either watch and stop moaning or don't watch and complain.

-AC

*agrees with everything AC just said*

And I quoted it so it'll get onto page 2.

ragesRemorse

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Think is that the wrestler has to have the ability to sell the talent or it reflects on their personality. Like when the undertaker had the biker gimmick he was able to sell it because that reflects on his real life personality and love for motorcycles.

obviously they need to posess the charisma, but nothing could convince me that the wrestlers create their own persona's

Darth Hord

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
obviously they need to posess the charisma, but nothing could convince me that the wrestlers create their own persona's

It depends, the creative teams come up with ideas for a wrestler (aswell as the storylines)but wreslters have been known to pitch their own ideas for their character or come up with their own character. Im not sure if any of their ideas were accepted but i do they at least talk and put their inputs in and sometimes they get accepted.

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Ive never been a wrestling fan, but dont all wrestlers steal gimmicks from the personalities of other wrestlers?

Either way, no one remembers the sandman today. I doubt Wrestlers have much say over their in stage personality anyway. Im sure just like every other wrestler, Stone Cold was told who he was going to be and how he was going to act.

It was always consider "honor among thieves" to not take another wrestler's act.

Case in point. The Golden Age of the WWE and WCW in the 80's (around my time as a fan) Hulk Hogan never took Ultimate Warrior's act. However, Ultimate Warrior took some of Sting's small acts. It was pretty obvious but acceptable by certain fans.

The entire Steve Austin case was a complete joke. Most wrestling fans knew the character was orchestrated by Mc Mahon. Austin started as a body guard for the Million Dollar man. Since that didn' pay off well. Mc Mahon decided to create the "bad boy" image in him. Which stunk to high heaven. You know who got suckerthe most? Not wrestling fans because wrestling fans DON'T see organizations (i.e. WWE, WCW or TNA or whatever) they just see wrestling. The people that got sucker the most were WWE fans. They saw HYPE and NOT wrestling. Because as tought and rough as Steve is...he is not a good wrestler. Never was and never will be. He's just nothing but HYPE!

Mc Mahon knew exactly that he need it to get past by the wrestling and promote the hype. That is why he created the Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold rivalry. It was despicable to see Hype win over wrestling. Because Bret was 10x the wrestler that Steve would ever be.

Again, guess who felt for the trap? Not wrestling fans...WWE fans.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It was always consider "honor among thieves" to not take another wrestler's act.

Case in point. The Golden Age of the WWE and WCW in the 80's (around my time as a fan) Hulk Hogan never took Ultimate Warrior's act. However, Ultimate Warrior took some of Sting's small acts. It was pretty obvious but acceptable by certain fans.

The entire Steve Austin case was a complete joke. Most wrestling fans knew the character was orchestrated by Mc Mahon. Austin started as a body guard for the Million Dollar man. Since that didn' pay off well. Mc Mahon decided to create the "bad boy" image in him. Which stunk to high heaven. You know who got suckerthe most? Not wrestling fans because wrestling fans DON'T see organizations (i.e. WWE, WCW or TNA or whatever) they just see wrestling. The people that got sucker the most were WWE fans. They saw HYPE and NOT wrestling. Because as tought and rough as Steve is...he is not a good wrestler. Never was and never will be. He's just nothing but HYPE!

Mc Mahon knew exactly that he need it to get past by the wrestling and promote the hype. That is why he created the Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold rivalry. It was despicable to see Hype win over wrestling. Because Bret was 10x the wrestler that Steve would ever be.

Again, guess who felt for the trap? Not wrestling fans...WWE fans.

Mick Foley once said "Rey Mysterio Jr. can do all the luche libre stuff in the world, he'll never get the reaction Undertaker does for just diving over the ropes.".

You know what that's called? Hype. It's the reason people watch WWE, not the olympics. Austin was nothing but hype, yes...and? You're not making a revolutionary point, here. Hype won over wrestling ability because everyone was having a great time, it was the most unified era of fandom.

Hulk Hogan was hype, he wasn't a good wrestler. There's a reason him slamming Andre stands out in peoples' minds more than Ricky Steamboat Vs Randy Savage, and that's because it's about hype. People will remember Angle's moonsault off the cage more than his olympic victory.

Even in TNA, a place chock full of great wrestlers, you don't see people jumping out of their seats in appreciation for technical grace, you see them jumping out of their seats when AJ Styles dives off something, or Rhino gores someone through a table.

Bret Hart was a great professional wrestler, but there's a reason everyone preferred Shawn Michaels, because he was exciting the crowd. Bret Hart could never have had Hell in a Cell with Taker, or Foley.

If you want wrestling, watch the olympics. Not everyone is going to have the skill of Angle or Benoit AND the ability to excite a crowd.

-AC

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Mick Foley once said "Rey Mysterio Jr. can do all the luche libre stuff in the world, he'll never get the reaction Undertaker does for just diving over the ropes."

Good! that's his perspective from a wrestler point of view. I'm giving the wrestling fan perspective. You do know that Rey Mysterio isn't the only talented wrestler from Mexico right? There are others that stayed in Mexico and much more beloved by their fans.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You know what that's called? Hype. It's the reason people watch WWE, not the olympics. Austin was nothing but hype, yes...and? You're not making a revolutionary point, here. Hype won over wrestling ability because everyone was having a great time, it was the most unified era of fandom.

WRONG! People watch the WWE for many reason. Hype should be the LAST reason. Unified era of fandom? Really? You mean mainstream fandom. Good job! You got sucker by Mc Mahon. He used hype to get wrestling into the mainstream. You went along with it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Hulk Hogan was hype, he wasn't a good wrestler. There's a reason him slamming Andre stands out in peoples' minds more than Ricky Steamboat Vs Randy Savage, and that's because it's about hype.

Hulk Hogan is an icon. A very likeable icon for his time. Even people who weren't wrestling fans liked the guy. That didn't worked for Steve Austin since he have to wear to his "bad boy" costume all the time.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Even in TNA, a place chock full of great wrestlers, you don't see people jumping out of their seats in appreciation for technical grace, you see them jumping out of their seats when AJ Styles dives off something, or Rhino gores someone through a table.

Try watching Mexican wrestling...fans cheer death defying jump ropes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Bret Hart was a great professional wrestler, but there's a reason everyone preferred Shawn Michaels, because he was exciting the crowd. Bret Hart could never have had Hell in a Cell with Taker, or Foley.

You said it! Bret Hart is a "professional" wrestler. That is why he doesn't perform in dangerous stunts like Foley, Raven, Undertaker, Sabu, and others.

Shawn Michaels is in another different level. He used to performed in both professional and hardcore. That is what made Shawn more appealing. He couldn't be easily manipulated by Mc Mahon. Eventually his atrocious creation had to take on Shawn. Why? because Hype demands it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

If you want wrestling, watch the olympics. Not everyone is going to have the skill of Angle or Benoit AND the ability to excite a crowd.

-AC

No, thank you! I'll watch wrestling which makes it fun and thrilling to watch.

You can tip the dancing bear and watch as much as hype as you like. I'll go back to watching Mascara Sagrade "wrestle" El matador.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Good! that's his perspective from a wrestler point of view. I'm giving the wrestling fan perspective. You do know that Rey Mysterio isn't the only talented wrestler from Mexico right? There are others that stayed in Mexico and much more beloved by their fans.

Yes, for a while it was the only wrestling I watched.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
WRONG! People watch the WWE for many reason. Hype should be the LAST reason. Unified era of fandom? Really? You mean mainstream fandom. Good job! You got sucker by Mc Mahon. He used hype to get wrestling into the mainstream. You went along with it.

Why SHOULD it be? It's called World Wrestling Entertainment, it's fulfilling that, even in the Stone Cold era, it was fulfilling that. Whether the gimmicks were stolen from ECW or not (A fair point), it was fulfilling it.

I liked ECW a lot more on the whole, but there is a reason more people watched WWE, it's not a coincidence you know.

I was into wrestling long before Austin came into it, Dwarf, so you're not only wrong there, but on your second claim. I didn't get "suckered" by McMahon. He was making TV that I enjoyed watching, it made me no less of a wrestling fan because I watched Austin's era and liked it. At the same time Taz was my favourite wrestler of all, he was in ECW, and I still consider him one of the most underrated, along with Nova and Chris Chetti.

If your childish retort is "YOU GOT SUCKERED!" then you may as well stop it. Not everyone who liked it got suckered. If that were the case, I'd still like the show. Far be it for us to watch WWE and enjoy the hype element of it. Yeah, let's condemn them to bingo halls and have them in an armbar for an hour. ECW wasn't great because of wrestling alone, it was great cos the wrestling was EXCITING. Dan Severn had great wrestling ability, but I'd rather watch paint dry than him in the WWE (Or WWF as it was known then).

Yeah, I mean mainstream fandom. Not the kind who sit on the net and expect everyone to be Jushin Liger or Benoit, people who recognise that whilst WWE isn't the best just cos it's famous, there is a clear reason every other federation didn't get the attention WWE did. WWE is hyped through the roof now more than ever, it's not seen as it was back from '98 to '03, though. I went to see WWF's Capital Carnage in 1998, they had no pyro, nothing. It was reliant purely on the hype of the matches, which included Austin. Now they have all the hype in the world and no Austin, The Rock is gone, and what's happened? Exactly.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Hulk Hogan is an icon. A very likeable icon for his time. Even people who weren't wrestling fans liked the guy That didn't worked for Steve Austin since he have to wear to his "bad boy" costume all the time.

So what? Austin is an icon, just not one that people liked because they weren't the same kids that liked Hogan.

Hogan, as a fact, held back many potential champions because he had to be the winner, had to be the good guy, had to be "immortal". Jake Roberts, Ted Dibiase, Ricky Steamboat etc. All potential champions held back until Taker finally came along and whooped him out, best thing to ever happen in WWF history, really.

Austin had detractors as every champ does, but at least other competitors were made to seem legit, it never always seemed guaranteed that Austin would make it out with the belt. You always knew Hogan would win, cos that's what Hogan did.

It doesn't matter if it "worked" for Austin, whether he was a likeable icon or not. Nobody has been as famous in wrestling since Hogan, and never was an era so revered as his.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Try watching Mexican wrestling...fans cheer death defying jump ropes.

Try not assuming, makes you look kind of stupid.

What, you think your some kind of under-the-radar wrestling fan cos you watch luche libre or something? Who gives a shit? I was at that stage too. I thought watching obscure federations made me cool, but in reality, besides a few decent wrestlers, they were mostly shit. That's why hardly anyone gives a shit about black and white movies coming out of Europe as opposed to 300, because...it's just not that good.

If that's where you find your entertainment, great, but please don't act like your some pioneering wrestling fan. I've been there and seen that at age 21, you're much older, so if anything you're catching onto the "I'm cool!" thing a bit late.

I was watching Hayabusa's deathmatches from New Japan when I was in my early teens. You don't get anything out of suggesting obscure wrestling to me, Dwarf.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You said it! Bret Hart is a "professional" wrestler. That is why he doesn't perform in dangerous stunts like Foley, Raven, Undertaker, Sabu, and others.

They're all professional wrestlers. What do you expect? Matches full of holds? Go watch the olympics then.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Shawn Michaels is in another different level. He used to performed in both professional and hardcore. That is what made Shawn more appealing. He couldn't be easily manipulated by Mc Mahon. Eventually his atrocious creation had to take on Shawn. Why? because Hype demands it.

Wrestling, in the mainstream, isn't some artistically credible medium, Dwarf. You're quite naive.

McMahon wants to make money, that's all he really cares about. He cares about putting asses in seats, selling tickets and selling merch, that's really about it. It just so happens that certain eras of doing that have produced great entertainment for different kinds of people.

He does what he wants and what he feels will make him money, and it does. Austin era did that, and brought entertainment and memories to a great many people, you were not one. Cry a river, build a bridge, get over it. It's why Cena had the belt for so long, this is another generation's turn. You had Hogan as did I, for a while, then for the bulk of it I had Austin, they have Cena. It's the way it works.

Many thought the same way about Hogan, and still do to this day. When he's around he is pissing people off cos he wants to be number one.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, thank you! I'll watch wrestling which makes it fun and thrilling to watch.

Yeah, and so will I, so will anyone. It makes us no less wrestling fans because we liked the Austin era.

You like Coldplay. Boring, dull, derivative shit in my opinion. U2, overrated, preachy, pretentious horseshit. I'm not going around accusing you of being a lesser music fan, you like what you like.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You can tip the dancing bear and watch as much as hype as you like. I'll go back to watching Mascara Sagrade "wrestle" El matador.

Ok, you do that, and keep listening to Coldplay.

-AC

DigiMark007

I'm actually in agreement with AC. They never claim to have great technical wrestling. It's just a soap opera on steroids (figuratively and literally). The hype, the acting, etc. is the main point and always has been since McMahon became big back in the 80's with Hogan and such.

BobbyD

How many more anticipatory and exciting things were there than after an elbow drop was performed you heard...

If you smeLLLLLLlllllalalalalaalalllllLLLLLLLLLoooooWWWWW
WWW...what the ROOOCK...is cookin'!!!!

*cue music*

..it was awesome. yes

I still remember a skit he had with Jerry the King and they were debating the greatest line in wrestling history. Ha! ...starting to crack up thinking about it.
laughing out loud

He did: Woooh! To be the man! You gotta beat the....no, no, no, that can't be it. Man, that stinks.

Then: I am the best there is! The best there was, and the best there ever...pfff...no, no, no that can't be it. That stinks.

He then imitated: Whatya gonna do when the...no, no, no that's not it. That can't be the greatest line in wrestling history.

Oh I know.....If you smeLLLLL........

laughing

Hysterical shite, my man. Classic stuff. An entertainer second to none.

Darth Hord

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm actually in agreement with AC. They never claim to have great technical wrestling. It's just a soap opera on steroids (figuratively and literally). The hype, the acting, etc. is the main point and always has been since McMahon became big back in the 80's with Hogan and such. Im gonna agree with you and AC.

DigiMark007

Originally posted by BobbyD
How many more anticipatory and exciting things were there than after an elbow drop was performed you heard...

If you smeLLLLLLlllllalalalalaalalllllLLLLLLLLLoooooWWWWW
WWW...what the ROOOCK...is cookin'!!!!

*cue music*

..it was awesome. yes

I still remember a skit he had with Jerry the King and they were debating the greatest line in wrestling history. Ha! ...starting to crack up thinking about it.
laughing out loud

Hysterical shite, my man. Classic stuff. An entertainer second to none.

co-mother-f*cking-signed! This is why he was awesome.

Secretus

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Chris Benoit.

lol crippler cross face ftw!

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, for a while it was the only wrestling I watched.

Why SHOULD it be? It's called World Wrestling Entertainment, it's fulfilling that, even in the Stone Cold era, it was fulfilling that. Whether the gimmicks were stolen from ECW or not (A fair point), it was fulfilling it.

Fullfiling WHAT? Characters from all over the world? That's a good one. Stop if you heard this one before.... but this one will kill ya Oh, let me guess...the Bolveshiks were actually from the Soviet Union...Kamala was from Uganda...Yeah, "World" wrestling, huh?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I liked ECW a lot more on the whole, but there is a reason more people watched WWE, it's not a coincidence you know.

Of course there is no coindence...that's what Hype does. Bring in the crowds of clueless people and take their money away. WWE Tells them that they'll have a wrestling show....but what they have is an entertainment show...you get half a glass of what you want if you're a wrestling fan. The crowds just cheer whoever comes out with the biggest show.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I was into wrestling long before Austin came into it, Dwarf, so you're not only wrong there, but on your second claim. I didn't get "suckered" by McMahon. He was making TV that I enjoyed watching, it made me no less of a wrestling fan because I watched Austin's era and liked it. At the same time Taz was my favourite wrestler of all, he was in ECW, and I still consider him one of the most underrated, along with Nova and Chris Chetti.

That's nice that you were into WWE "entertainment" and not "wrestling". I find the name Stone Cold and wrestling to be an oxymoron. Because he is more ENTERTAINER than WRESTLER. So if you find Austin to be more of a wrestler than entertainer...whoah! Mc Mahon sure did a great job. You watch Austin and like it...I'm sure as a wrestling fan you sure did like his wrestling more than his acting....RIGHT?

You like Taz? Good! As a "wrestling" fan you would put Taz and Austin in the same category of "wrestling" or "entertainment"? You get a cookie if you get this one right.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

If your childish retort is "YOU GOT SUCKERED!" then you may as well stop it. Not everyone who liked it got suckered. If that were the case, I'd still like the show. Far be it for us to watch WWE and enjoy the hype element of it. Yeah, let's condemn them to bingo halls and have them in an armbar for an hour. ECW wasn't great because of wrestling alone, it was great cos the wrestling was EXCITING. Dan Severn had great wrestling ability, but I'd rather watch paint dry than him in the WWE (Or WWF as it was known then).

Yes, the sucker it's the proper word. Anyone saying..."Oh! Stone Cold had a great wrestling match! The Stone Cold Cutter was awesome! What a great wrestler he is!" Gets that label perfectly fine.

Correction on ECW. Aside from "EXCITING" ECW delivered great performances because A. It was Hardcore B. Much more technical matches C. The characters and even fans hated anything and everything about WWF! Why? because WWF was simply atrocious! Yeah, Doink the Clown and Dink vs Jerry the King Lawler and another midget....OOOoooh!!!! Wrestling exciting!!!!

You know something? If Bingo halls can produce a more impact wrestling experience than big stadiums with gimmicks...which of the two would a wrestler fan enjoy? Hmmm...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Yeah, I mean mainstream fandom. Not the kind who sit on the net and expect everyone to be Jushin Liger or Benoit, people who recognise that whilst WWE isn't the best just cos it's famous, there is a clear reason every other federation didn't get the attention WWE did. WWE is hyped through the roof now more than ever, it's not seen as it was back from '98 to '03, though. I went to see WWF's Capital Carnage in 1998, they had no pyro, nothing. It was reliant purely on the hype of the matches, which included Austin. Now they have all the hype in the world and no Austin, The Rock is gone, and what's happened? Exactly.

Tell me what did happen?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

So what? Austin is an icon, just not one that people liked because they weren't the same kids that liked Hogan.

Hogan, as a fact, held back many potential champions because he had to be the winner, had to be the good guy, had to be "immortal". Jake Roberts, Ted Dibiase, Ricky Steamboat etc. All potential champions held back until Taker finally came along and whooped him out, best thing to ever happen in WWF history, really.

Austin an icon? Of entertainment?! Oh, I'll give you one that one. But as a wrestlling icon? Oh, you have to be kidding here....aren't you?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Austin had detractors as every champ does, but at least other competitors were made to seem legit, it never always seemed guaranteed that Austin would make it out with the belt. You always knew Hogan would win, cos that's what Hogan did.

Riiiight..that's why Hogan lost to Yokozuna. Who later lost to the other failed gimmick of "All American Lex Luger"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It doesn't matter if it "worked" for Austin, whether he was a likeable icon or not. Nobody has been as famous in wrestling since Hogan, and never was an era so revered as his.

I'm sorry...but you're missing Andre the Giant. OBEY!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Try not assuming, makes you look kind of stupid.

Back at you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

What, you think your some kind of under-the-radar wrestling fan cos you watch luche libre or something? Who gives a shit? I was at that stage too. I thought watching obscure federations made me cool, but in reality, besides a few decent wrestlers, they were mostly shit. That's why hardly anyone gives a shit about black and white movies coming out of Europe as opposed to 300, because...it's just not that good.

You obviously do give a shit. Since you're the one addressing me in the first place. Now as for the 300 and Europe and all that...you're getting delirious...stop and catch a breath.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

If that's where you find your entertainment, great, but please don't act like your some pioneering wrestling fan. I've been there and seen that at age 21, you're much older, so if anything you're catching onto the "I'm cool!" thing a bit late.

Who is acting? Wasn't I clear enough when I said to you I'm giving a wrestling fan perspective. You're 21 and I'm 31....your point? Oh, if you want to verified that I was watching wrestling at age 11 when you still shitting on your diappers and crying at mom for your milk...then yeah, I was.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I was watching Hayabusa's deathmatches from New Japan when I was in my early teens. You don't get anything out of suggesting obscure wrestling to me, Dwarf.

I was watching bootleg copies of Fist Wrestling from Brazil....your point?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

They're all professional wrestlers. What do you expect? Matches full of holds? Go watch the olympics then.

Hahahaha!!! Oh, good one...Stone Cold a professional wrestler. Professional Entertainer more like it. Oh, wait! King Kong Bundy is a professional wrestler? BWAHWHAHAHA!!!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wrestling, in the mainstream, isn't some artistically credible medium, Dwarf. You're quite naive.

McMahon wants to make money, that's all he really cares about. He cares about putting asses in seats, selling tickets and selling merch, that's really about it. It just so happens that certain eras of doing that have produced great entertainment for different kinds of people.

Wrestling *cough* Excuse me, WWE in the mainstream is exactly that Entertainment. I'll give you that WWE have good professional wrestlers. But they have to be there....it pays the bills. So when work is tight and they have put on a show...oh, well, it pays the bills.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

He does what he wants and what he feels will make him money, and it does. Austin era did that, and brought entertainment and memories to a great many people, you were not one. Cry a river, build a bridge, get over it. It's why Cena had the belt for so long, this is another generation's turn. You had Hogan as did I, for a while, then for the bulk of it I had Austin, they have Cena. It's the way it works.

I don't have to cry a river or build all that stuff. I didn't fell for it. You did and others...oh well. Que Sera? Sera? Whatever will be will be...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You like Coldplay. Boring, dull, derivative shit in my opinion. U2, overrated, preachy, pretentious horseshit. I'm not going around accusing you of being a lesser music fan, you like what you like.

Ok, you do that, and keep listening to Coldplay.

-AC

Why, yes! I DO like Coldplay and U2 is my all time favorite band.

...

You don't like them?

...

What do you want me to do? Explain something meaningful? Something that will convince you otherwise? Oh, heck I don't care. You had a point to make there or something? Wrestling and Music..what can I say? Two things I like.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Fullfiling WHAT? Characters from all over the world? That's a good one. Stop if you heard this one before.... but this one will kill ya Oh, let me guess...the Bolveshiks were actually from the Soviet Union...Kamala was from Uganda...Yeah, "World" wrestling, huh?

Wait, why are you being silly? You do this in every debate you have.

Fulfilling the entertainment, of course. Regardless of what big Mr. Dwarf thinks, it's always, somehow, fulfilling that.

Are you suggesting there's some kind of racism in WWE?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Of course there is no coindence...that's what Hype does. Bring in the crowds of clueless people and take their money away. WWE Tells them that they'll have a wrestling show....but what they have is an entertainment show...you get half a glass of what you want if you're a wrestling fan. The crowds just cheer whoever comes out with the biggest show.

Oh give it a rest. You sound like Oscar the Grouch, and people call ME moany, jeez.

Why are they clueless? Do you not accept the fact that not everybody is dumb enough to expect CMLL when they go to a WWE show or watch it on TV? I didn't expect ECW, I expected exactly what I knew WWF/E would deliver. People sitting around complaining that WWE doesn't have what Mexican federations do, are idiots, because that has never, ever been the point.

Mexico has more or less always been about what you described, and that's cool, but WWE hasn't. WWE combines, or tries to, elements of everything because it HAS to try to please as many people as possible. For Vince, it has never been about making a top quality wrestling performance, the term "wrestling" is used very loosely. More so now, but over time also.

You think that because people don't watch Mexican wrestling they're idiots? I think people like you, who don't "get" what WWE is, are pretty high on the silly list also.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
That's nice that you were into WWE "entertainment" and not "wrestling". I find the name Stone Cold and wrestling to be an oxymoron. Because he is more ENTERTAINER than WRESTLER. So if you find Austin to be more of a wrestler than entertainer...whoah! Mc Mahon sure did a great job. You watch Austin and like it...I'm sure as a wrestling fan you sure did like his wrestling more than his acting....RIGHT?

Who said I wasn't into wrestling? Why are you assuming that you cannot be into both? Wisdom with age clearly isn't a factual development...

Yes, he was more of an entertainer, what's your point? On his work permit it would say "Professional wrestler.", it doesn't literally mean he was some ring general, it's what the business is known as, take the literal stick out of your ass.

Steve Austin was one of my favourite entertainers in the wrestling business, never have I said he was a great wrestler, or that I enjoyed his wrestling, where are you getting this? Oh, you are making it up because as usual, you're proving you love to make stuff up.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You like Taz? Good! As a "wrestling" fan you would put Taz and Austin in the same category of "wrestling" or "entertainment"? You get a cookie if you get this one right.

And you get a big "F" stamp on your head for being such a corner-staring, back-of-the-class ignorant fool when it comes to wrestling. You are arguably one of the most uneducated wrestling "fans" I have ever seen, at least in your ability to understand the point of WWE, and read peoples' posts without putting your own ideas in.

Of course I wouldn't put them in the same catagory. Taz was a wrestler in the wrestling "business", the entertainment side. Austin was an entertainer in the entertainment side. I never said anything different, I...in fact, specified the opposite.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes, the sucker it's the proper word. Anyone saying..."Oh! Stone Cold had a great wrestling match! The Stone Cold Cutter was awesome! What a great wrestler he is!" Gets that label perfectly fine.

And so does anyone who thinks they're cool cos they can name Mexican wrestlers nobody really gives a shit about. I watched it for a long time because I felt I owed it to myself, AS a wrestling fan, to learn more of what it truly was, started as and become OUTSIDE of "entertainment". The fact that I enjoyed entertainment MIXED with wrestling, like ECW, like late '90s WWE, does not make me less of a fan.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Correction on ECW. Aside from "EXCITING" ECW delivered great performances because A. It was Hardcore

Review that and come back when you've cracked why it's so hypocritical. Actually no, I'll tell you.

"Hardcore" is anything but technical, anything but traditional. All that IS, is hype, entertainment. Just because it's people who, in your eyes, were credible doing it, doesn't mean that "hardcore" is any closer to what you deem to be wrestling and any further from entertainment than Austin was.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
B. Much more technical matches C. The characters and even fans hated anything and everything about WWF! Why? because WWF was simply atrocious! Yeah, Doink the Clown and Dink vs Jerry the King Lawler and another midget....OOOoooh!!!! Wrestling exciting!!!!

Yeah, it's nice when you're sitting at home watching it, and ECW fans/wrestlers alike will tell you it's a huge part of their life, or was. They hated everything about WWF for the same reason people hate everything about U2 but love System of a Down.

They consider U2 boring in the face of what THEY like, personally. Like me. You hated WWF, fine by me, I loved ECW too. People WERE capable of CHOOSING to like WWF/E on their own terms, not everyone who enjoyed it was some mindless sheep, just like not everyone who enjoys Coldplay is an idiot with boring taste in music.

You might like bands I do, just like we both enjoyed ECW and Mexican wrestling, it doesn't mean you like music less cos of Coldplay or I like wrestling less cos of WWE, does it?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You know something? If Bingo halls can produce a more impact wrestling experience than big stadiums with gimmicks...which of the two would a wrestler fan enjoy? Hmmm...

That wasn't my point, was it? My point was that there is a clear reason that they are in those positions. People are not wrong for wanting their "wrestling" to be a conduit for entertainment as the main point. There is no wrong or right here.

You are acting like hype and excitement is wrong, or that people are wrong or stupid for liking it. What would you say to those people who hate ANY kind of pro wrestling because it's scripted?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Tell me what did happen?

In MY opinion, it got shit, but that's the point. Hogan was hated and loved by "fans", Austin was, Cena now is.

It's all in the generations.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Austin an icon? Of entertainment?! Oh, I'll give you one that one. But as a wrestlling icon? Oh, you have to be kidding here....aren't you?

Where did I say that he was a good wrestler?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Riiiight..that's why Hogan lost to Yokozuna. Who later lost to the other failed gimmick of "All American Lex Luger"

Wrestlemania 9, why did Hogan win the title instead of Bret Hart?

Go on, give it a try. Oh, he won it because he was a drama case. That's precisely why. The fans wanted Hogan as champ.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm sorry...but you're missing Andre the Giant. OBEY!

He was not as much of an icon as Austin, and I dare you to argue for Andre's wrestling ability.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Back at you.

Niiice. Did Vince Russo write that one for you?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You obviously do give a shit. Since you're the one addressing me in the first place. Now as for the 300 and Europe and all that...you're getting delirious...stop and catch a breath.

I'll slow down for you, then.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Who is acting? Wasn't I clear enough when I said to you I'm giving a wrestling fan perspective. You're 21 and I'm 31....your point? Oh, if you want to verified that I was watching wrestling at age 11 when you still shitting on your diappers and crying at mom for your milk...then yeah, I was.

Excellent, and for all that you've still not "got it". You still fail miserably to see the point of why so many different "wrestling" federations with different balances of entertainment/ability exist.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I was watching bootleg copies of Fist Wrestling from Brazil....your point?

See? You're doing it again.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Hahahaha!!! Oh, good one...Stone Cold a professional wrestler. Professional Entertainer more like it. Oh, wait! King Kong Bundy is a professional wrestler? BWAHWHAHAHA!!!

Stop hitting the panic button.

His occupation is professional wrestler, that is what it is known as. He doesn't "wrestle". Torrie Wilson's occupation form would say they same thing. They are in the wrestling "business", the have "wrestling" matches.

You and I both know they are not "wrestlers", my point was just general catagorisation. I'll dumb it down more next time.

-AC

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Wrestling *cough* Excuse me, WWE in the mainstream is exactly that Entertainment. I'll give you that WWE have good professional wrestlers. But they have to be there....it pays the bills. So when work is tight and they have put on a show...oh, well, it pays the bills.

Why do you honestly think all of ECW's wrestlers jumped ship? Ask Taz if he's happy commentating, a choice HE made.

WWF/E has put on some of the best wrestling shows. Angle Vs Benoit? You'd be out of your skull to suggest that wasn't a great wrestling match. Bret Hart Vs Michaels? Exactly. Then, Taker Vs Foley? It was an amazing match. If you wanna get caught up on "wrestler" being applied with the most anal of restrictions, then hardly anything nowadays is "wrestling". Go watch the olympics.

There's a reason YOU don't watch that, and watch scripted wrestling instead.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't have to cry a river or build all that stuff. I didn't fell for it. You did and others...oh well. Que Sera? Sera? Whatever will be will be...

I didn't fall for it, I chose to watch it. At the same time I was watching stuff you consider to be great, and recognising the difference. You're just being stupid.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Why, yes! I DO like Coldplay and U2 is my all time favorite band.

...

You don't like them?

Nah, but apparantly you don't know the difference between good and shit, hmm? You got suckered in like everyone else!

No, you didn't, did you? You like them because you chose to like them. You're not wrong. I think they're shit, I think of Coldplay how you seem to think of WWE, you aren't "wrong" though.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
...

What do you want me to do? Explain something meaningful? Something that will convince you otherwise? Oh, heck I don't care. You had a point to make there or something? Wrestling and Music..what can I say? Two things I like.

Exactly. You like Coldplay, they entertain you. Many credible music fans would laugh at you, like you're laughing at WWE fans. I'm one of them.

Point being, I don't act like you're somehow a lesser person because of it, or stupid, or that you got suckered in. You, on the other hand, are ignorant.

-AC

alic88

I saw both Stone Cold and The Rock during their prime, and man oh man was it the best entertainment ever. The attitude era was so amazing. I remember looking forward to every Monday Night Raw and Smackdown. The tension was so great between the two of them. They always had so much respect for each other yet they were bitter rivals, and when they helped each other out during matches it was bliss. This is something that WWE can never re-capture. I stopped watching WWF after 2001, and obviously it has never been the same since.

I ALWAYS preffered Stone Cold over The Rock. Something about the whole Austin gimmick worked more than the Rock. Stone Cold was more IN YOUR FACE, the Rock was great but was just pale in comparison to Stone Cold. I hate to be technical here( since the whole concept of WWF fighting is scripted), but Wrestlemania 17 was the best Stone Cold Rock match ever, and Stone cold won that. Stone cold won a lot more matches over the rock than the rock did over stone cold. Of course it depended on who the writers made the heel at the time, but stone cold I felt was always head and toes over the Rock as a wrestler and with presence even. THis is not to discredit The Rock's persona what soever, but Stone Cold was just that damn amazing.

I think my favorite Stone Cold/Rock moment was Backlash 2000, when HELL BROKE LOSE.. Stone Cold helped the rock reclaim his wwf championship from triple H after PWNING every person on the ring. He returned after 9 months of absense! It was just for me the greatest wrestling moment ever, if not one of the very finest. Does anyone remember that match? If so, I would like to hear comments about that match.

PS: WWF lost it after wcw switch-over in 2002.

Alpha Centauri

I'd rather watch a half hour armbar, personally.

(Joking)

-AC

BobbyD

Originally posted by alic88
I saw both Stone Cold and The Rock during their prime, and man oh man was it the best entertainment ever. The attitude era was so amazing. I remember looking forward to every Monday Night Raw and Smackdown. The tension was so great between the two of them. They always had so much respect for each other yet they were bitter rivals, and when they helped each other out during matches it was bliss. This is something that WWE can never re-capture. I stopped watching WWF after 2001, and obviously it has never been the same since.

Only once previously was this imitated.....when Hogan and Macho Man became buds. The flying elbow followed by leg drop on the likes of DiBiasi, King Kong Bundy, Big John Stud, and Paul Orndorff. Good times. Good times.

WrathfulDwarf

Holy Essay Batman!

Lower your post to 10,000 characters AC. You're not giving a speech here.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wait, why are you being silly? You do this in every debate you have.
Fulfilling the entertainment, of course. Regardless of what big Mr. Dwarf thinks, it's always, somehow, fulfilling that.
Are you suggesting there's some kind of racism in WWE?

I do this in every debate? Riiiight AC...you're doing your typical "10,000 word post argument" here and eventually shift off to other topics.
Fullfilling entertainment. Not wrestling...correct? You said it! Entertainment. Thank you.

Now stop doing a Philosophicus ploy to shift to other topics like racism.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh give it a rest. You sound like Oscar the Grouch, and people call ME moany, jeez.

Why are they clueless? Do you not accept the fact that not everybody is dumb enough to expect CMLL when they go to a WWE show or watch it on TV? I didn't expect ECW, I expected exactly what I knew WWF/E would deliver. People sitting around complaining that WWE doesn't have what Mexican federations do, are idiots, because that has never, ever been the point.

Mexico has more or less always been about what you described, and that's cool, but WWE hasn't. WWE combines, or tries to, elements of everything because it HAS to try to please as many people as possible. For Vince, it has never been about making a top quality wrestling performance, the term "wrestling" is used very loosely. More so now, but over time also.

Yeah, well I guess that makes you Big Bird by trying to find the word of the day. In your case the post of the day.

The mainstream is clueless when they swallow the theatrics of WWE when they call themselves "wrestlers" See, it's an easy trap. First WWE says it's wrestling. People with a good amount of reason call it as they see it. They say "that's not wrestling" so AHA! when Mc Mahon gets caught with this kind of reasoning he runs into the "entertainment" part. Which is what you're doing here as well.

In the mid 90's to mascarade their image WWF try to bring wrestlers from Japan and Mexico. It was then know as "The New Generation". It backfire on his ass when people started to appreciate the wrestling more than the hype. Mc Mahon's world theather was in danger. So he opted to make his entertainers appear more dominant. Kids like you fell for it. So props to Mc Mahon for making you think you were getting a wrestling match when you instead you got Entertain.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You think that because people don't watch Mexican wrestling they're idiots? I think people like you, who don't "get" what WWE is, are pretty high on the silly list also.

Your words not mine. I've given you a pretty wide view on what I think. So don't let it pass you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Who said I wasn't into wrestling? Why are you assuming that you cannot be into both? Wisdom with age clearly isn't a factual development...

Yes, he was more of an entertainer, what's your point? On his work permit it would say "Professional wrestler.", it doesn't literally mean he was some ring general, it's what the business is known as, take the literal stick out of your ass.

Because you suck up what WWE gives you. If you're a wrestling fan then by all means learn to separate two things. 1. Entertainment 2. Wrestling. Sure you can have both. But when you confuse them you're lost.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Steve Austin was one of my favourite entertainers....

Oh, that explains this whole fuss you're throwing here...you need to get your tantrums out. AC here is a lesson...You aren't the first one to try to argue with me about Stone Cold. You will lose. So lower the sword and banner. Your favorite entertainer is NOT a wrestler. He can only stomp, kick, punch, chug beer and yell out profanity.

Oooh-Ohh!! You come out with your typical Austin gimmick...."WHAT?" "WHAT?". Monkey see monkey do.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Of course I wouldn't put them in the same catagory. Taz was a wrestler in the wrestling "business", the entertainment side. Austin was an entertainer in the entertainment side. I never said anything different, I...in fact, specified the opposite.

You get a cookie! I'll give you an Oatmeal cookie.

*gives cookie to AC*

There is hope for you after all.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And so does anyone who thinks they're cool cos they can name Mexican wrestlers nobody really gives a shit about. I watched it for a long time because I felt I owed it to myself, AS a wrestling fan, to learn more of what it truly was, started as and become OUTSIDE of "entertainment". The fact that I enjoyed entertainment MIXED with wrestling, like ECW, like late '90s WWE, does not make me less of a fan.

Now, AC who gives a shit if you're a wrestling fan? hmm....?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Review that and come back when you've cracked why it's so hypocritical. Actually no, I'll tell you.

There is nothing to review. Except that you say you're a wrestling fan. Who gives a shit? (how does a taste of your own medicine feel?)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

"Hardcore" is anything but technical, anything but traditional. All that IS, is hype, entertainment. Just because it's people who, in your eyes, were credible doing it, doesn't mean that "hardcore" is any closer to what you deem to be wrestling and any further from entertainment than Austin was.

I'll school you on this...

Hardcore wrestling have more heart and soul than entertaiment. Wrestlers risk injury or even death when performing these stunts. Hardcore isn't hype AC. Don't be sucha stick in the mud. Hardcore takes place nearly everywhere. In the WWE , ECW, Japanese, and BYW (Back Yard Wrestling I have translate that for you) Austin may have performed something similar to Hardcore. But because he was an investment of Vince. He never pull stunts like Foley or Taker.

Please reflect on your thoughts when considering what is hardcore and what is theater wrestling. It's a subject very close to me. Hardcore wrestlers get more respect than Austin. Which is a terrible shame people putting Austin first and hardcore wrestlers in third. Really a shame.

To be Continue...

WrathfulDwarf

Continue...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Yeah, it's nice when you're sitting at home watching it, and ECW fans/wrestlers alike will tell you it's a huge part of their life, or was. They hated everything about WWF for the same reason people hate everything about U2 but love System of a Down.

They consider U2 boring in the face of what THEY like, personally. Like me. You hated WWF, fine by me, I loved ECW too. People WERE capable of CHOOSING to like WWF/E on their own terms, not everyone who enjoyed it was some mindless sheep, just like not everyone who enjoys Coldplay is an idiot with boring taste in music.

I don't hate the WWF. I don't suck up their antics like you were doing. We're not talking what we choose is what we like. We're talking about Entertainment and Wrestling. You're the one confusing the two.

Do you really think is important to me if other wrestling fans don't like U2 or Coldplay? I don't AC..I really don't. What I share with them is my love for wrestling. Heck! They could love Britney Spears for all I care. I only connect with them by wrestling. Different strokes for different folks.

AC...you're desperately trying to drag things here were they don't belong. What are you going to pull next? Other of my favorite things? You want a list?

Batman
DC Comics
Xbox 360
Cherry Coke
Pumpkin Pie
DS Lite
Spaghetti Westerns
70's Kung Fu flicks

Oh, I got one....HALO 3! Do your magic!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That wasn't my point, was it? My point was that there is a clear reason that they are in those positions. People are not wrong for wanting their "wrestling" to be a conduit for entertainment as the main point. There is no wrong or right here.

You are acting like hype and excitement is wrong, or that people are wrong or stupid for liking it. What would you say to those people who hate ANY kind of pro wrestling because it's scripted?

Your whole drive in this whole ordeal is because I call Stone Cold an Entertainer and not a wrestler. Hype and Excitment are not wrong. What is wrong is when people confuse two things that are not the same.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

In MY opinion, it got shit, but that's the point. Hogan was hated and loved by "fans", Austin was, Cena now is.

It's all in the generations.

It's all in the characters. Get it right.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wrestlemania 9, why did Hogan win the title instead of Bret Hart?

Go on, give it a try. Oh, he won it because he was a drama case. That's precisely why. The fans wanted Hogan as champ.

As I recall Ultimate Warrior was the next candidate. But because the man was never appropiate with his timing...he didn't get it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

He was not as much of an icon as Austin, and I dare you to argue for Andre's wrestling ability.

I know you're in the UK AC. See, Andre is beyond the Icon Austin will ever be. Search the OBEY! movement. Andre is a god.

I dare you to watch some of Andre's wrestling matches prior to the 80's. Then come back and talk.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Niiice. Did Vince Russo write that one for you?

I'm not a hack like Austin. That was my own craft.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll slow down for you, then.

I'll speed it up for you since you're passing the point and missing it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Excellent, and for all that you've still not "got it". You still fail miserably to see the point of why so many different "wrestling" federations with different balances of entertainment/ability exist.

Federations will come and go. Wrestlers will always be remenber.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

His occupation is professional wrestler, that is what it is known as. He doesn't "wrestle". Torrie Wilson's occupation form would say they same thing. They are in the wrestling "business", the have "wrestling" matches.

You and I both know they are not "wrestlers", my point was just general catagorisation. I'll dumb it down more next time.

-AC

His occupation is Entertainer! That is why he makes movies. That is why he appears in Celebrety death matches. That is why he....oh, well if you dont' get it by now it's hopeless.

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why do you honestly think all of ECW's wrestlers jumped ship? Ask Taz if he's happy commentating, a choice HE made.

Did I not say there are wrestlers in the WWE trying to pay the bills? It hit you over the head or something?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

WWF/E has put on some of the best wrestling shows. Angle Vs Benoit? You'd be out of your skull to suggest that wasn't a great wrestling match. Bret Hart Vs Michaels? Exactly. Then, Taker Vs Foley? It was an amazing match. If you wanna get caught up on "wrestler" being applied with the most anal of restrictions, then hardly anything nowadays is "wrestling". Go watch the olympics.

AC you're a such ungrateful babbler! WWE/F did not put up a show! It was the wrestlers that are there trying to make a living! Give credit where is due!

Watch the Olympics? Why do you keep mentioning them? Oh, you mean go watch real wrestling like Greco-Roman Wrestling? Oh, you fail.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Exactly. You like Coldplay, they entertain you. Many credible music fans would laugh at you, like you're laughing at WWE fans. I'm one of them.

Point being, I don't act like you're somehow a lesser person because of it, or stupid, or that you got suckered in. You, on the other hand, are ignorant.

-AC

You're a WWE fan? You don't say! Really? Wow! That's news!

Where have I belittle wrestling fans? I said WWE fans don't see the difference between Entertainment and Wrestling. Some do...others don't. The latter are wrestling fans.

Many credible music fans will laugh at my taste? And? am I asking them for their approval on what I like and don't like?

AC it's the weekend. Hurry up and post your next 20,000 word reply and go out for a walk. I also have some things to do. Do please keep it where is at...the discussion of Wrestling and WWE.

Discos

Out of this whole topic which took me ages to read over (thanks to AC and WDwarf, hehe), I would have to say you have both got great points to every arguement.

The Austin era was the attitude era which made WWF popular at the time, it did make alot of people tune in, but Austin wasnt a wrestler, and the Rock, I quote "he finished people off with an elbow"...not great wrestling but pure entertainment.

None of the above got me tuned to WWF back in 1998, 1 superstar alone got me into WWF and that was...KANE. as a 9 year old, hearing a masked man escaped from a Nuthouse and had people in whitecoats chasing him every week had me excited and curious - entertainment. But Kane is a good performer when he wants to be.

Nowadays, WWF/E fans are 90% entertainment and if they have no complaints then I have no compaints, wrestling fans, I am sorry if you are not satisfied with WWE but what are WE the fans supposed to do about it? I thoroughly enjoy watching Cruiseweight action and that IS wrestling, the other week on Smackdown with Jamie Noble Vs Mysterio was great, best entertainment and WRESTLING I have seen in a while.

Discos

Originally posted by BobbyD
I still remember a skit he had with Jerry the King and they were debating the greatest line in wrestling history. Ha! ...starting to crack up thinking about it.
laughing out loud

Hysterical shite, my man. Classic stuff. An entertainer second to none.

I remember that skit like it was yesterday, its was years ago as well. Man time goes by fast in WWF/E...especially as its on twice a week, heh.
I loved his backstage interviews.

Discos - Michael Cole you will stand their with that mic to the rock with the Rocks Tshirt over your head. haha.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Holy Essay Batman!

Lower your post to 10,000 characters AC. You're not giving a speech here.

I'll post whatever quantity I desire until you can show me I'm breaking rules.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I do this in every debate? Riiiight AC...you're doing your typical "10,000 word post argument" here and eventually shift off to other topics.
Fullfilling entertainment. Not wrestling...correct? You said it! Entertainment. Thank you.

A) Yes, you do. You've done it when we debated movies, when we've debated music, and you're doing it now when we debate wrestling. You ask questions you've already decided the answer to, or, you just ignore the answer. You can't debate.

B) I never said anything else. You are incapable of keeping up, it seems.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Now stop doing a Philosophicus ploy to shift to other topics like racism.

Rulebook?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yeah, well I guess that makes you Big Bird by trying to find the word of the day. In your case the post of the day.

The mainstream is clueless when they swallow the theatrics of WWE when they call themselves "wrestlers" See, it's an easy trap. First WWE says it's wrestling. People with a good amount of reason call it as they see it. They say "that's not wrestling" so AHA! when Mc Mahon gets caught with this kind of reasoning he runs into the "entertainment" part. Which is what you're doing here as well.

I call it wrestling because that's what it's known as. There is wrestling involved in their company and their shows, do you deny this? There you go, then.

It's not wrestling in the sense of what you or I would know, but that doesn't mean it isn't wrestling, AT ALL. I agree there are people who believe the WWE is the peak of wrestling performance and that is ignorance. I never have, never will, but to say it's not wrestling, AT ALL, is more stupid. Like people who say hip hop isn't music.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
In the mid 90's to mascarade their image WWF try to bring wrestlers from Japan and Mexico. It was then know as "The New Generation". It backfire on his ass when people started to appreciate the wrestling more than the hype. Mc Mahon's world theather was in danger. So he opted to make his entertainers appear more dominant. Kids like you fell for it. So props to Mc Mahon for making you think you were getting a wrestling match when you instead you got Entertain.

There you go with the stupid assumptions. Maybe you should stop "masquerading" as someone with intelligent views on wrestling.

It was a wrestling match in the SENSE that there were people, in a ring, having a wrestling BASED entertainment match. It's not based on boxing, martial arts etc. It's based on wrestling, there's wrestling involved. The very fact that you suggest it is not wrestling because it's not Mexican traditional or Japanese traditional is retarded beyond comprehension.

If you wanna get that technical, Kurt Angle is a REAL wrestler, and he considers the WWE, TNA etc to be WRESTLING federations. I think he has a more credible opinion than a grammar-plagued, fingers-in-ears childish debater on the internet who thinks he is cool cos he can name obscure feds that even someone ten years his junior knows about.

I don't consider WWE wrestling like I consider olympics wrestling, I don't consider it wrestling like I considered other less hype-based feds wrestling, but it still contains wrestling. To say it doesn't is retarded.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Your words not mine. I've given you a pretty wide view on what I think. So don't let it pass you.

Wide view? It's just about the most narrow, pretentious view anybody could possibly hold. "It's not wrestling cos it has more hype than wrestling.". You're just being dumb. You watch scripted wrestling too.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Because you suck up what WWE gives you. If you're a wrestling fan then by all means learn to separate two things. 1. Entertainment 2. Wrestling. Sure you can have both. But when you confuse them you're lost.

I don't suck up what WWE gives me, I haven't watched it for a better part of three years. I liked the Austin era by choice, I saw it for what it was.

You are falsely trying to separate them ENTIRELY. In WWE, I can differentiate between entertainment and wrestling. The Rock Vs Austin is hype, Angle Vs Benoit is wrestling and hype. The point is, you cannot wrap your brain around the idea.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, that explains this whole fuss you're throwing here...you need to get your tantrums out. AC here is a lesson...You aren't the first one to try to argue with me about Stone Cold. You will lose. So lower the sword and banner. Your favorite entertainer is NOT a wrestler. He can only stomp, kick, punch, chug beer and yell out profanity.

Why are you being such a baby? He's not my favourite entertainer, I never said he was a wrestler.

Where are you getting all this from? Oh, it's the same old desperation retort you throw out because you have as much debating talent as The Rock had wrestling talent. You talk well, grapple poorly.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oooh-Ohh!! You come out with your typical Austin gimmick...."WHAT?" "WHAT?". Monkey see monkey do.

I'm surprised you have enough room up your ass to fit all this bs you're pulling out of it. Then again, I suppose there's always the trusty thin air, but you fill most of that up with your debate material don't you? Haha, lame.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You get a cookie! I'll give you an Oatmeal cookie.

*gives cookie to AC*

There is hope for you after all.

No need to over-compensate for being intimidated or perhaps ashamed that I'm getting the best of you, I don't think less of you. Just think first, post second.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Now, AC who gives a shit if you're a wrestling fan? hmm....?

There is nothing to review. Except that you say you're a wrestling fan. Who gives a shit? (how does a taste of your own medicine feel?)

Oh so simple.

My point in saying that was EXACTLY that. Who gives a shit? Nobody. Nobody gives a shit about what you have to preach as if it impresses anyone. Nothing you've said I didn't know, and I'm ten years younger than you, SO WHAT? It means nothing, so in future, don't bring it up as if it aids you in a debate...about WWE.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Hardcore wrestling have more heart and soul than entertaiment.

In your opinion. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying it's your opinion. Do I have to "school" you on fact/opinion?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Wrestlers risk injury or even death when performing these stunts.

Benoit's brain was damaged as a result of his in ring activity with WWE. Why do you think that is? Might have been because everyone loved what he did. The...enter...tain...ment. Entertainers and wrestlers do not have to be separate.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Hardcore isn't hype AC. Don't be sucha stick in the mud. Hardcore takes place nearly everywhere. In the WWE , ECW, Japanese, and BYW (Back Yard Wrestling I have translate that for you) Austin may have performed something similar to Hardcore. But because he was an investment of Vince. He never pull stunts like Foley or Taker.

You are so confused. If it's not hype, as in, excitement, what is it?

Taker throwing Foley off the cell was hype. People were hyped by that.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Please reflect on your thoughts when considering what is hardcore and what is theater wrestling. It's a subject very close to me. Hardcore wrestlers get more respect than Austin. Which is a terrible shame people putting Austin first and hardcore wrestlers in third. Really a shame.

Hahaha, so? "It's close to me.". So what? You make me laugh. As if it being meaningful to you somehow makes you a scholar on it by default, and gives you a right to have the debate treated delicately, while you feel you can stomp around calling people idiots for liking Austin.

You can't, and as always, I'll take your debate apart.

-AC

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Did I not say there are wrestlers in the WWE trying to pay the bills? It hit you over the head or something?

Like a chair shot (You won't get that).

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
AC you're a such ungrateful babbler! WWE/F did not put up a show! It was the wrestlers that are there trying to make a living! Give credit where is due!

Then who brought those wrestlers to the people and allowed them to be ENTERTAINED by WRESTLING?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Watch the Olympics? Why do you keep mentioning them? Oh, you mean go watch real wrestling like Greco-Roman Wrestling? Oh, you fail.

No, you're talking about how we should separate the two, so I am. If you don't wanna go all the way, don't start the race, WD.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You're a WWE fan? You don't say! Really? Wow! That's news!

Shh, read my posts. I've not watched WWE with any regularity since 2004.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Where have I belittle wrestling fans? I said WWE fans don't see the difference between Entertainment and Wrestling. Some do...others don't. The latter are wrestling fans.

Show me where you get the right to decide that. You belittle in that very quote, you hypocritical fool.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Many credible music fans will laugh at my taste? And? am I asking them for their approval on what I like and don't like?

Am I asking you? You have as much factual clarification over anyone's taste as I have over your musical taste. You don't get to choose or say what I WAS sucked into, why, or what I like for what reasons. You just don't. You're a mod on KMC, not mod of life.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
AC it's the weekend. Hurry up and post your next 20,000 word reply and go out for a walk. I also have some things to do. Do please keep it where is at...the discussion of Wrestling and WWE.

Yeah, keep it on topic. Not "I know facts about WWE, because I watch obscure Mexican wrestling.".

Your beloved Bret Hart considers WWF a wrestling federation.

-AC

Kevy2007

I think it's sad how you talk about wrestling like it was real. LOL

Darth Hord

Originally posted by Kevy2007
I think it's sad how you talk about wrestling like it was real. LOL

Does it have to be "real" for you to talk about. We know that the shows are scripted but so are shows like heroes and prison break and people talk about them. So I could go into the tv forum and say how its sad how people talk about them like that. You can do that for a lot of the forums here. So why is wrestling any different?

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll post whatever quantity I desire until you can show me I'm breaking rules.

Oh, you're not breaking any rules. If you were I would come down on your ass hard. What you're doing is blowing things out of proportion. Not satisfied with a few replies you seek to drown in a glass of water. I, however explain that there is no need to make a declaration in such a small discussion. Which I will remind you...it's about Stone Cold not been a wrestler but an entertainer. It happens that WWE fans can't seem to separate the two. If you've already gotten that through your head...then what's the rest of this mumble-jumble?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

A) Yes, you do. You've done it when we debated movies, when we've debated music, and you're doing it now when we debate wrestling. You ask questions you've already decided the answer to, or, you just ignore the answer. You can't debate.

B) I never said anything else. You are incapable of keeping up, it seems.

A. I ask questions that I want your answers from...what you don't like are my questions! You can't answer a direct question. Simple!

B. Keeping up with what? You're babble? Give it a rest too AC.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I call it wrestling because that's what it's known as. There is wrestling involved in their company and their shows, do you deny this? There you go, then.

It's not wrestling in the sense of what you or I would know, but that doesn't mean it isn't wrestling, AT ALL. I agree there are people who believe the WWE is the peak of wrestling performance and that is ignorance. I never have, never will, but to say it's not wrestling, AT ALL, is more stupid. Like people who say hip hop isn't music.

Then if you agree with me from that point of view...what the hell are you venting about?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There you go with the stupid assumptions. Maybe you should stop "masquerading" as someone with intelligent views on wrestling.

It was a wrestling match in the SENSE that there were people, in a ring, having a wrestling BASED entertainment match. It's not based on boxing, martial arts etc. It's based on wrestling, there's wrestling involved. The very fact that you suggest it is not wrestling because it's not Mexican traditional or Japanese traditional is retarded beyond comprehension.

Stupid assumptions? That's YOU making them! What I'm doing is a "critique".

Because when you see Mexican and Japanese style of wrestling you see more technical moves. More skill actions. Sure, they have their own charade...but not as ridicolus as WWE. Don't come here and try to excuse WWE. It's joke on your part. WWE knows very well that actual wrestling won't sell unless they add the idiotic acting and drama. Without the mainstream WWE would fall flat on their ass!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you wanna get that technical, Kurt Angle is a REAL wrestler, and he considers the WWE, TNA etc to be WRESTLING federations. I think he has a more credible opinion than a grammar-plagued, fingers-in-ears childish debater on the internet who thinks he is cool cos he can name obscure feds that even someone ten years his junior knows about.

Oh, I'm sure Kurt have his own opinions. Just like I have my own. Too bad you can't get your own thanks to Mc Mahon's hype machine you seem to be operating.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I don't consider WWE wrestling like I consider olympics wrestling, I don't consider it wrestling like I considered other less hype-based feds wrestling, but it still contains wrestling. To say it doesn't is retarded.

Neither do I...but it does contain more hype, acting, drama, music than any other wrestling group out there.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Wide view? It's just about the most narrow, pretentious view anybody could possibly hold. "It's not wrestling cos it has more hype than wrestling.". You're just being dumb. You watch scripted wrestling too.

Yes it's a wide view. Not my problem you're looking it with one eye close rather than both eyes open.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I don't suck up what WWE gives me, I haven't watched it for a better part of three years. I liked the Austin era by choice, I saw it for what it was.

Yes you do! Stop denying it. This isn't an inquisition. I'm not the wrestling fan police. I'm not asking you when you stop watching. Nor do I care. But on personal opinion you prolly stop watching after your idol Stone Cold stop acting on the ring.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You are falsely trying to separate them ENTIRELY. In WWE, I can differentiate between entertainment and wrestling. The Rock Vs Austin is hype, Angle Vs Benoit is wrestling and hype.

Good! You want a pat on the back for that? Now did just figure that out after this argument? I school ya, didn't I?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Why are you being such a baby? He's not my favourite entertainer, I never said he was a wrestler.

Where are you getting all this from? Oh, it's the same old desperation retort you throw out because you have as much debating talent as The Rock had wrestling talent. You talk well, grapple poorly.

Oh, I'm the baby? Yeah, I'm the one who's blowing things out proportion because I call out your idol Stone Cold. I should spank your ass and send you to your room. That outta help.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm surprised you have enough room up your ass to fit all this bs you're pulling out of it. Then again, I suppose there's always the trusty thin air, but you fill most of that up with your debate material don't you? Haha, lame.

I don't put things on my ass. I stuff asses with my long and hard reasoning. You're the virgin that can't take it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

No need to over-compensate for being intimidated or perhaps ashamed that I'm getting the best of you, I don't think less of you. Just think first, post second.

Back at you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

My point in saying that was EXACTLY that. Who gives a shit? Nobody. Nobody gives a shit about what you have to preach as if it impresses anyone. Nothing you've said I didn't know, and I'm ten years younger than you, SO WHAT? It means nothing, so in future, don't bring it up as if it aids you in a debate...about WWE.

See how idiotic you just made yourself look like? What point have you proven? That you don't have one to begin with?

If you or anyone don't give a shit..then what the friggin crap is all this you been posting for two days?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

In your opinion. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying it's your opinion. Do I have to "school" you on fact/opinion?

Then shut your hole! You agree..that's good enough.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Benoit's brain was damaged as a result of his in ring activity with WWE. Why do you think that is? Might have been because everyone loved what he did. The...enter...tain...ment. Entertainers and wrestlers do not have to be separate.

Benoit was damage as a result of the WWE complete carelessness and improper way to correct and discipline their employees! I call you a big bullshit on you for that! The man need it help! Was it giving to him? Oh, yeah Mc Mahon ******* would say so! Because it's Mc Mahon saying it so you suck it up. I can't wait to see what would happen once the Feds raid the WWE.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You are so confused. If it's not hype, as in, excitement, what is it?

Taker throwing Foley off the cell was hype. People were hyped by that.

It's a monkey dancing on the streets Hype? It's a dog performing tricks on a promenade street hype? No? I guess it's entertaiment and not hype. It's Spiderman 3 hyped? Yeah, was it entertainment? To some, yes. To me...no. To you? Who gives a shit....right AC?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Hahaha, so? "It's close to me.". So what? You make me laugh. As if it being meaningful to you somehow makes you a scholar on it by default, and gives you a right to have the debate treated delicately, while you feel you can stomp around calling people idiots for liking Austin.

You can't, and as always, I'll take your debate apart.

-AC

Quit rewarding yourself with assumptions. Yes, to me it's close. Because of my own experiences which I have no desire to share them with you. As if you would have any interest to begin with.

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Like a chair shot (You won't get that).

Then who brought those wrestlers to the people and allowed them to be ENTERTAINED by WRESTLING?

No, you're talking about how we should separate the two, so I am. If you don't wanna go all the way, don't start the race, WD.

Shh, read my posts. I've not watched WWE with any regularity since 2004.

Show me where you get the right to decide that. You belittle in that very quote, you hypocritical fool.

Am I asking you? You have as much factual clarification over anyone's taste as I have over your musical taste. You don't get to choose or say what I WAS sucked into, why, or what I like for what reasons. You just don't. You're a mod on KMC, not mod of life.

Yeah, keep it on topic. Not "I know facts about WWE, because I watch obscure Mexican wrestling.".

Your beloved Bret Hart considers WWF a wrestling federation.

-AC

Blah-blah-blah...what's the point of this? Stone Cold Steve Austin wrestling skills suck.

Debate that comment without 50,000 words.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, you're not breaking any rules. If you were I would come down on your ass hard. What you're doing is blowing things out of proportion. Not satisfied with a few replies you seek to drown in a glass of water. I, however explain that there is no need to make a declaration in such a small discussion. Which I will remind you...it's about Stone Cold not been a wrestler but an entertainer. It happens that WWE fans can't seem to separate the two. If you've already gotten that through your head...then what's the rest of this mumble-jumble?

Come down on my ass hard, wow, big man. Funny, but tough.

Secondly, you are the one who gets so confused, pins the confusion on others and then claim your opponents say shit they never said.

I said Austin is a wrestler as an occupation, not that he WRESTLES. I specifically stated the opposite yet you either chose to ignore it like a child or reply in a needless manner. I can separate the two, but knowing I've got the best of you like I always do, you seek any reason to reply to me.

Austin IS an entertainer. So is Robbie Williams. What does Austin specifically entertain as? Why are they both not just called "Entertainers"? Because their brand of entertainment is specfic. So what is Austin classified as? His job wouldn't be labelled simply as "Entertainer".

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
A. I ask questions that I want your answers from...what you don't like are my questions! You can't answer a direct question. Simple!

I've answered every question you've asked and I've taken apart every argument you've produced. What I DID expect was your childish, presumptuous replies as you always do. No matter how clear anybody is with you, the assumptions keep on coming. I am not half as pretentious or undeservedly arrogant as you are, I couldn't even dream of it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
B. Keeping up with what? You're babble? Give it a rest too AC.

Like I said, you're not mod of life. You don't get to decide how I post if I'm not breaking rules. I'll ask you to stop being a silly boy.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Then if you agree with me from that point of view...what the hell are you venting about?

The fact that in spite of me clearly agreeing with you, you are ignoring every other point I'm making in contradiction to your silly, sweeping generalisations just because you feel "We agree, debate over.". You're an ignorant person. You've ignored me saying that Austin doesn't "wrestle" so many times.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Stupid assumptions? That's YOU making them! What I'm doing is a "critique".

It's not. "You sucked it up.", "What you do, is suck everything up.", "You think Austin is a wrestler." etc. That's not a critique, that's being an idiot.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Because when you see Mexican and Japanese style of wrestling you see more technical moves. More skill actions. Sure, they have their own charade...but not as ridicolus as WWE. Don't come here and try to excuse WWE. It's joke on your part. WWE knows very well that actual wrestling won't sell unless they add the idiotic acting and drama. Without the mainstream WWE would fall flat on their ass!

So? I'm not denying that. Don't add additional points out of thin air just to make it look like we're arguing new points. You're shifting because you've lost.

I never once excused the ridiculousness of WWE, I merely told you that you were wrong for acting like the ridiculousness therefore means there is NO wrestling. That's a retarded point.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, I'm sure Kurt have his own opinions. Just like I have my own. Too bad you can't get your own thanks to Mc Mahon's hype machine you seem to be operating.

"I don't make assumptions.", "It's a critique.".

You're an ignorant fool. I've told you, tirelessly, that I made my own choice. Because YOU dislike it, you parrot that same point over and over. It's truly sad that someone your age cannot form an adult, mature argument, but sits there, fingers in ears, going "Lalalalalala not listening.".

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Neither do I...but it does contain more hype, acting, drama, music than any other wrestling group out there.

Right. Bring a point with that?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes it's a wide view. Not my problem you're looking it with one eye close rather than both eyes open.

Whatever makes you sleep at night. You're clearly just contented with convincing yourself I did things for reasons that make your argument better, untrue or not. I'll ALLOW the baby to have his bottle, in this case.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes you do! Stop denying it. This isn't an inquisition. I'm not the wrestling fan police. I'm not asking you when you stop watching. Nor do I care. But on personal opinion you prolly stop watching after your idol Stone Cold stop acting on the ring.

Honestly, kid, what do you get out of that? I've told you that's not the case, so why do you keep insisting it? I'm just going to take the high road, leave you to your immature crying and insisting I'm saying/believing things I'm not, and allow everyone to see your stupid debates for what they are.

I've never said he was my idol, I stopped watching a LONG time after he left. I've cited WWE's decline as many reasons, none of them are solely dependent on Stone Cold's departure and even his subsequent return made no difference because he IS an actor and given shitty parts he cannot do a good job. You choose to ignore all this, like you do in any debate, because you act like a child. It's truly sad and I pity the fact that the only person in this thread who probably sees you as a mature wrestling fan is you. You've got a lot of growing up to do, buddy.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Good! You want a pat on the back for that? Now did just figure that out after this argument? I school ya, didn't I?

What do you honestly get out of being a whiney little child in debates? Genuinely curious.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, I'm the baby? Yeah, I'm the one who's blowing things out proportion because I call out your idol Stone Cold. I should spank your ass and send you to your room. That outta help.

Hahaha, you make me laugh. You're either blowing things out of proportion like a child because you are trying to gain the edge, as you fail miserably to do so fairly and in the context of debate, or you act like some touch, internet mod-cop. You're a joke, your debates are a joke and your methods are a joke.

Come back when you can drop the method of "I'll keep repeating something despite him clarifying it's not true.". Grow up, dude.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't put things on my ass. I stuff asses with my long and hard reasoning. You're the virgin that can't take it.

Aww, haha.

Look at what I've reduced you to. Making the argument about me.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Back at you.

You entertain me, you're the Austin of debaters. Actually, you're the Nathan Jones of debaters. All the attempted hype and intimidation in the world, but in reality, whenever you get involved in debates, you're just exposed as a paper-thin child-case who cannot stick to a logical or sensible point. Choosing, not to accept certain clarifications, just to childishly repeat the ones he believes in his mind.

I pity you, really.

-AC

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
See how idiotic you just made yourself look like? What point have you proven? That you don't have one to begin with?

If you or anyone don't give a shit..then what the friggin crap is all this you been posting for two days?

I've had to lead you by the hand because all you keep doing is bringing up things I've never said, and I've had to tell you why they're wrong because I've not said them. So you launch another childish, irrelevant tirade.

This would have been over pretty sharpish if you'd not got scared and had actually realised that my posts were pretty clear. You chose not to, you chose to insist on something I specifically said I didn't believe. You see, my debate will win this for me, your immaturity will lose it for you. You believe that continually convincing yourself of a false debate that I have will make it true, tsk. It won't.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Then shut your hole! You agree..that's good enough.

Nah, I won't "shut my hole", nice of you to ask. Nice, reasonable, eloquent language coming from a mod, though.

*Points to palm of hand* You always end up right there. Not sure why you don't start trying to avoid it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Benoit was damage as a result of the WWE complete carelessness and improper way to correct and discipline their employees! I call you a big bullshit on you for that! The man need it help! Was it giving to him? Oh, yeah Mc Mahon ******* would say so! Because it's Mc Mahon saying it so you suck it up. I can't wait to see what would happen once the Feds raid the WWE.

Huh? My whole point there was that he did it wrestling, and he did. His brain damage was a result of WWE's carelessness and his own personal carelessness in the ring while WRESTLING. Medical studies show he was the equivelent of an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient. From WRESTLING. WRESTLING IN WWE.

Why go on about McMahon again? He has nothing to do with this point. Oh, you're convincing yourself, carry on.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's a monkey dancing on the streets Hype? It's a dog performing tricks on a promenade street hype? No? I guess it's entertaiment and not hype. It's Spiderman 3 hyped? Yeah, was it entertainment? To some, yes. To me...no. To you? Who gives a shit....right AC?

I define hype as not ONLY promotion, but the excitement the actual product generates.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Quit rewarding yourself with assumptions.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
As you would have no interest to begin with.

Gotta love that hypocricy. I have no interest in your stories, wrestling? I do. You have convinced yourself otherwise, though, so again, I'll let the baby have his rattle.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Stone Cold Steve Austin wrestling skills suck.

Debate that comment without 50,000 words.

Why would I want to debate it?

Debate that comment without lies, convincing yourself of lies, general childish bullshit and a stupid debate.

-AC

TheGame17

the rock kinda got annoying after awhile.
stone cold just kicked ass all the time though. i'm goin with him

The Pict

The Rock!

Alpha Centauri

Just to clarify, WD:

No, Austin is not my idol. Yes, I enjoyed his entertainment. Yes, that's all he did. No, he couldn't wrestle. No, I never suggested he was, or could.

If you want to reply to anything, reply to that.

-AC

BackFire

I'm gonna go with Stone Cold. While I love The Rock, Austin was part of some of the most enjoyable storylines in WWF(E) history, I think. His long going feud with McMahon was so much fun to watch, it was the primary reason for me to tune in each week. His backstage antics were just classic.

Plus his music was just too exhilarating. I think the Glass shattering intro to his song was flawless, and a big reason for his success. People just heard that sound and would go nuts. It was great for runins.

Plus his finisher -- The stunner, was great. It was quick and could come out of nowhere, making his matches feel much less predictable, it could just BOOM, be over like that.

While he wasn't a great wrestler, his charisma was grand. And his ability to excite the fans, top notch.

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've had to lead you by the hand because all you keep doing is bringing up things I've never said, and I've had to tell you why they're wrong because I've not said them. So you launch another childish, irrelevant tirade.

This would have been over pretty sharpish if you'd not got scared and had actually realised that my posts were pretty clear. You chose not to, you chose to insist on something I specifically said I didn't believe. You see, my debate will win this for me, your immaturity will lose it for you. You believe that continually convincing yourself of a false debate that I have will make it true, tsk. It won't.

More Babble! This way to the actual point of your rants ----->

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Nah, I won't "shut my hole", nice of you to ask. Nice, reasonable, eloquent language coming from a mod, though.

*Points to palm of hand* You always end up right there. Not sure why you don't start trying to avoid it.

Don't shut it...just sit there on your PC and keep rambling. You make it more amusing.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Huh? My whole point there was that he did it wrestling, and he did. His brain damage was a result of WWE's carelessness and his own personal carelessness in the ring while WRESTLING. Medical studies show he was the equivelent of an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient. From WRESTLING. WRESTLING IN WWE.

Why go on about McMahon again? He has nothing to do with this point. Oh, you're convincing yourself, carry on.

Oh, nice you're saying after the fact. So according to you Mc Mahon have nothing to do with this....yeah, that Mc Mahon is one clever trickster. He has nothing to do with this...he doesn't sign the checks...he doesn't organize the events...he doesn't make the contracts...he doesn't make the rules....all that..put a halo and harp on Vince.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I define hype as not ONLY promotion, but the excitement the actual product generates.

I define hype as blowing things out of proportion. In your case something you're very familiar with.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Gotta love that hypocricy. I have no interest in your stories, wrestling? I do. You have convinced yourself otherwise, though, so again, I'll let the baby have his rattle.

No one is giving them to you. Something you could have discard by now. But instead use it to make a childish attack.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Why would I want to debate it?

-AC

You can't...period. You're done AC...it's over.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
More Babble! This way to the actual point of your rants ----->

It's not babble, it's me calling you out on your bs.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Don't shut it...just sit there on your PC and keep rambling. You make it more amusing.

Excellent. Then we are amusing each other.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, nice you're saying after the fact. So according to you Mc Mahon have nothing to do with this....yeah, that Mc Mahon is one clever trickster. He has nothing to do with this...he doesn't sign the checks...he doesn't organize the events...he doesn't make the contracts...he doesn't make the rules....all that..put a halo and harp on Vince.

I said he had nothing to do with my point. Do you genuinely have perception problems, WD? YOU brought McMahon into the debate about Benoit. Benoit was out there doing what he loved, wrestling. Moves with impact, fifteen german suplexes in a row. That's HIS choice, it wasn't Vince entirely. Proof? He was doing the same shit in Japan, in WCW.

When I said Vince had nothing to do with it I meant I was making a point about how Benoit got injured WRESTLING, in WWE. You brought McMahon into it. I never excused nor implicated him.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I define hype as blowing things out of proportion. In your case something you're very familiar with.

Your posts speak for themselves, I'm not the only one seeing it. You do it all the time.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one is giving them to you. Something you could have discard by now. But instead use it to make a childish attack.

I'm not doing anything childish, I'm not telling you to shut your hole, going around factually claiming you said and believed things you didn't and do not. You did, because you are a really...really poor debater, and I am quite simply better at it than you.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You can't...period. You're done AC...it's over.

Huh? Are you simple?

I asked why I would want to debate it because I never, ever disagreed that Austin was an entertainer and couldn't wrestle to save his life. I've actually said that in other threads when discussing the man. You take serious, sleep-depriving issue with me finding him entertaining to the point that anyone who DID was a sucker and an idiot.

Why would I debate something I agree with? That's the whole point. You are confused, you've convinced yourself of something in your "brain", and then projected it onto me.

Sad case.

-AC

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not babble, it's me calling you out on your bs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Excellent. Then we are amusing each other.

You more than me.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I said he had nothing to do with my point. Do you genuinely have perception problems, WD? YOU brought McMahon into the debate about Benoit. Benoit was out there doing what he loved, wrestling. Moves with impact, fifteen german suplexes in a row. That's HIS choice, it wasn't Vince entirely. Proof? He was doing the same shit in Japan, in WCW.

Then if he was doing it in Japan and with WCW. Why did the WWE hired him in the first place? And if he was hired and wasn't unknown he should have been tested properly.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

When I said Vince had nothing to do with it I meant I was making a point about how Benoit got injured WRESTLING, in WWE. You brought McMahon into it. I never excused not implicated him.

You sure you're not backpedaling here?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Your posts speak for themselves, I'm not the only one seeing it. You do it all the time.

Ooookay....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I'm not doing anything childish, I'm not telling you to shut your hole, going around factually claiming you said and believed things you didn't and do not. You did, because you are a really...really poor debater, and I am quite simply better at it than you.

Well I'm been the adult here and treating you like a child. Until you drop all that other babble I will continue to treat you in such way. Bring the adult in you anytime.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Huh? Are you simple?

Read the previous comment made by me.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I asked why I would want to debate it because I never, ever disagreed that Austin was an entertainer and couldn't wrestle to save his live. I've actually said that in other threads when discussing the man.

Why would I debate something I agree with?
Sad case.

-AC

Your own logic....go figure. Yeah, sad indeed.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Then if he was doing it in Japan and with WCW. Why did the WWE hired him in the first place? And if he was hired and wasn't unknown he should have been tested properly.

Because you don't just GET that kind of brain damage, WD. I'm not sure what you've been taught.

It's true, the WWF/E's wellness policies sucked, and probably will continue to. That's no secret, but chances are that at the time there was nothing to pick up on.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You sure you're not backpedaling here?

Did you even read the posts? I said:

"Benoit's brain was damaged as a result of his in ring activity with WWE. Why do you think that is? Might have been because everyone loved what he did.".

You then went on some massive tirade about how it was all McMahon's fault. I then said:

"Huh? My whole point there was that he did it wrestling, and he did. His brain damage was a result of WWE's carelessness and his own personal carelessness in the ring while WRESTLING. Medical studies show he was the equivelent of an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient. From WRESTLING. WRESTLING IN WWE.

Why go on about McMahon again? He has nothing to do with this point."..

My whole point was to counter the utterly retarded claim that there's no wrestling in WWE, and that McMahon is somehow Satan incarnate. I never brought him up, he has nothing to do with my initial point, you did.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well I'm been the adult here and treating you like a child. Until you drop all that other babble I will continue to treat you in such way. Bring the adult in you anytime.

You consider saying silly things like repeating "Austin is your idol!" and INSISTING that I am a sucker who sucks everything up, is mature? I have told you the exact opposite, YOU refuse to accept it cos it would take away your entire debate.

Then there's the issue of you continually insisting that I think Austin is some amazing wrestler, I've clarified I don't.

Oh, you dodged my question by the way:

Austin IS an entertainer, but so is Britney Spears. They are not just "Enterainers" as their job, they are referred to by the specific brand of entertainment they are involved in.

For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?

Answer it, boy.

-AC

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It's true, the WWF/E's wellness policies sucked, and probably will continue to. That's no secret, but chances are that at the time there was nothing to pick up on.

Again, you agree after the fact is brought up.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

My whole point was to counter the utterly retarded claim that there's no wrestling in WWE, and that McMahon is somehow Satan incarnate. I never brought him up, he has nothing to do with my initial point, you did.

Because you said again and again...."WWE is entertainment" What you need to clarify in your noodle is that there is no wrestling in WWE. There are "Wrestlers" (along with entertainers like Austin) performing acts.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You consider saying silly things like repeating "Austin is your idol!" and INSISTING that I am a sucker who sucks everything up, is mature? I have told you the exact opposite, YOU refuse to accept it cos it would take away your entire debate.

Yes, I don't have a problem giving you my opinion like an adult. You on the other hand take it as an sacriliege to Steve Austin. You've been doing since our first exchange.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Then there's the issue of you continually insisting that I think Austin is some amazing wrestler, I've clarified I don't.

Then stop arguing....simple.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Oh, you dodged my question by the way:

Just like you been doing it with my own set of questions.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Austin IS an entertainer, but so is Britney Spears. They are not just "Enterainers" as their job, they are referred to by the specific brand of entertainment they are involved in.

For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?

Answer it, boy.

-AC

An actor and comedian...thanks to Celebrety Death match. What you got next?

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Again, you agree after the fact is brought up.

No, I agree anyway. You are just repeating what I say after you've convinced yourself I said something else.

You're stupid like that. If you had READ, I CLEARLY said it was the WWE's carelessness also.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Because you said again and again...."WWE is entertainment" What you need to clarify in your noodle is that there is no wrestling in WWE. There are "Wrestlers" (along with entertainers like Austin) performing acts.

Nah, that's just utterly ridiculous.

Angle Vs Benoit was a wrestling match. Not one as "pure" as to your obscure, super cool, James Dean-under-a-streetlight tastes (Sarcasm), but a wrestling match.

That argument would hold a lot more weight if you were a fan of real, regulation, unscripted wrestling. You're not, you're also a fan of showmanship and scripted wrestling. Most federations having more of it than WWE does not make WWE void of wrestling.

Was ECW void of wrestling, to you? That's the hypocritical nature, here. You'll stand by ECW's policy of twatting each other with chairs and piledriving women off the apron to the floor, and that's "wrestling", but when Angle and Benoit put on an hour long match of fast-paced wrestling as entertainment, it's not wrestling cos it's not in a fed you like. If that match was in ECW you'd be saying nothing about it, cos you know nothing about wrestling, hardcore wrestling by concept, or anything else on the matter, it seems.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes, I don't have a problem giving you my opinion like an adult. You on the other hand take it as an sacriliege to Steve Austin. You've been doing since our first exchange.

What are you HONESTLY getting out of doing that? That is a question I'd like you to civilly answer. I continually tell you I enjoyed his entertainment, no more or less, and you continue to chime in and repeat this idea that I deify him or something.

What is that achieving for you? Really. Does it make you feel like you're gaining an edge, or something?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Then stop arguing....simple.

Why? Because you are getting made a fool of? You'd like that, wouldn't you? Why don't you stop making shit up and just accept that all of this has come from you blowing my posts out of proportion and putting shit in them that was never there?

You are the one insisting I think that, you are the one who needs to stop doing it. I don't have to stop arguing for Austin being an amazing wrestler...why? Because I've never done that in the first place.

Idiot.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Just like you been doing it with my own set of questions.

We can all keep saying things, WD. Doesn't make them true.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
An actor. What you got next?

Wrong. Morgan Freeman is an actor, Robert de Niro is an actor.

Austin is a SOMETHING, that has to act. He does act, he is an actor not by trade, however. So no, you're wrong. He can act, that doesn't make him an actor by trade. If there's an interview, it doesn't say;

"Stone Cold Steve Austin.
Entertainer/Actor.".

Does it? No.

I'll repeat the question, seeing as you are shit scared to answer me, for fear of knowing you'll be exposed. Note how I'm not assuming, I'm asking, rather than telling you what you think or feel, as you are doing.

"For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?".

Go on. I've laid out the context for you, all you have to do is answer.

What does everybody, wrestling fans alike, refer to Austin as? Marks, people who write for independent wrestling mags, sites, journalistic reviews, they all refer to Austin as this trade, what is it? Hint: Not actor, not general entertainer.

-AC

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, I agree anyway. You are just repeating what I say after you've convinced yourself I said something else.

You're stupid like that. If you had READ, I CLEARLY said it was the WWE's carelessness also.

Then S T O P arguing. It's an agreement.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Nah, that's just utterly ridiculous.

Angle Vs Benoit was a wrestling match. Not one as "pure" as to your obscure, super cool, James Dean-under-a-streetlight tastes (Sarcasm), but a wrestling match.

Wow! After using Cold Play now you bring in James Dean. How do you do it? (don't answer because like you say...Who gives a shit?)

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

That argument would hold a lot more weight if you were a fan of real, regulation, unscripted wrestling. You're not, you're also a fan of showmanship and scripted wrestling. Most federations having more of it than WWE does not make WWE void of wrestling.

Sure! Who doesn't love to be entertain by a showman. However, I make a clear distinction between what is wrestling and what is acting.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Was ECW void of wrestling, to you? That's the hypocritical nature, here. You'll stand by ECW's policy of twatting each other with chairs and piledriving women off the apron to the floor, and that's "wrestling", but when Angle and Benoit put on an hour long match of fast-pace wrestling as entertainment, it's not wrestling cos it's not in a fed you like. If that match was in ECW you'd be saying nothing about it, cos you know nothing about wrestling, hardcore wrestling by concept, or anything else on the matter, it seems.

ECW had their own shows of their own. Like Raven getting crucified. Which led to the audience getting offended. However, ECW in a resposible manner and also out of respect for their own fanbase. Decided to apologize. I would love to see that one day from WWE.

Were Angel and Benoit (which you've been having a hard on throught this arguement) wrestling, yes. Were they doing it in an Entertaining way? yes. As a wrestler fan...which one do you care the most for?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

What are you HONESTLY getting out of doing that? That is a question I'd like you to civilly answer. I continually tell you I enjoyed his entertainment, no more or less, and you continue to chime in and repeat this idea that I deify him or something.

What is that achieving for you? Really. Does it make you feel like you're gaining an edge, or something?

You're trying too hard to be one step ahead AC. Get in the same page for ONCE.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Why? Because you are getting made a fool of? You'd like that, wouldn't you? Why don't you stop making shit up and just accept that all of this has come from you blowing my posts out of proportion and putting shit in them that was never there?

You are the one insisting I think that, you are the one who needs to stop doing it. I don't have to stop arguing for Austin being an amazing wrestler...why? Because I've never done that in the first place.

Idiot.

Who is blowing who's post out of proportion? Who quote who in the first place? Meeeeee???? No, YOU!

Calling me an idiot does not make you look any more clever AC. You're now doing your typical gimmicks.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

We can all keep saying things, WD. Doesn't make them true.

But then again, for nearly all day you kept saying "Who gives a shit?"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I'll repeat the question, seeing as you are shit scared to answer me, for fear of knowing you'll be exposed. Note how I'm not assuming, I'm asking, rather than telling you what you think or feel, as you are doing.

"For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?".

Go on.

-AC

I gave you an answer. You don't like it. Tough. Don't be so high on asking questions AC. You skip a few yourself. Don't talk about hypocracy again.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Then S T O P arguing. It's an agreement.

Then stop putting words and points into my post.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Wow! After using Cold Play now you bring in James Dean. How do you do it? (don't answer because like you say...Who gives a shit?)

It was a tongue-in-cheek remark. I suppose it's to be expected that you wouldn't get it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sure! Who doesn't love to be entertain by a showman. However, I make a clear distinction between what is wrestling and what is acting.

Fair enough. Austin is an entertainer, not a wrestler, I've no qualms there. YOU are saying the ridiculous points of:

A) There's NO wrestling in WWE.

and B) Anyone who liked Austin is a sucker.

I'm going to absolutely end your days of calling me and others suckers for that, right now.

It's hypocritical considering you once said you really, really enjoyed Snakes on a Plane, a movie that was covered in NOTHING but hype before the content was even released, to give the illusion that it wasn't shit. Then there's the fact that I accused you of getting suckered into the substanceless, bland hype of Halo 3. "I don't care, I enjoy it.".

"THOSE AREN'T RELEVANT POINTS, AC!", yes they are, observe.

Why is it ok for you to do that, but all of a sudden anyone who likes Austin is an absolute sucker and an idiot? There'a a difference between hype existing because the CONTENT is great, ie; Austin entertaining in WWE, and hype being used BEFORE hand to cover up for the content being shit, ie; Snakes on a Plane, which you love. You lack the comprehension to differentiate.

It's why you're losing this debate.

Any hype you go along with is coincidentally because you "chose" to. You're a fool, a liar and a hypocrite.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
ECW had their own show of their own. Like Raven getting crucified. Which led to the audience to getting offended.

True. I can see the technical finesse, the mat work and grace, the sheer eloquence of that performance in wrestling.

Wait...Raven being crucified? Oh. Nah, that proves my point if anything.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
However, ECW in a resposible manner and also out of respect for their own fanbase. Decided to apologize. I would to see that one day from WWE.

Bring on the relevance any time now. I'm waiting to see how that has relevance to anything you've said, like WWE not containing wrestling.

"WWE doesn't contain wrestling cos ECW apologised for Raven being crucified!". What?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Were Angel and Benoit (which you've been having a hard on throught this arguement) wrestling, yes. Were they doing it in an Entertaining way? yes. As a wrestler fan...which one do you care the most for?

Neither, I do not suffer the idiotic burden of HAVING to separate them. It was a successful combination of what Austin brought and what people like Raven brought, people like Taz and people like Nova.

You are burdening yourself with having to say "YOU MUST ENJOY ONE ASPECT MORE THAN THE OTHER!", no. Pure wrestling, just like pure entertainment, can both be very boring. Hence why I don't watch the olympics and don't watch soap operas. Neither of them interest me. Wrestling successfully combines both, WWE did that. Deal with the fact.

It's precisely why I'm a music fan, not a fan of any particular genre inherently. Some pure wrestling is shit, some pure entertainment is shit. Hence why I am not committing to saying I enjoy one or the other inherently. I enjoy what I enjoy, because I enjoy it. You're using this thread as nothing more than an excuse to stroke your ego about what a wrestling fan you are, and the funny part is, you can't even do that right.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You're trying too hard to be one step ahead AC. Get in the same page for ONCE.

I'm waiting here for you.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Who is blowing who's post out of proportion? Who quote who in the first place? Meeeeee???? No, YOU!

So me replying to you with my opinion is blowing it out of proportion, but you continually insisting I deify Austin, claiming I have a hard on, is not?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Calling me an idiot does not make you look any more clever AC. You're now doing your typical gimmicks.

You are a walking gimmick, people are saying it to me as we speak.

I'm calling you one because you are being one, WD. No attempt at anything.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
But then again, for nearly all day you kept saying "Who gives a shit?"

All day? Nah, you never blow things out of proportion, do you?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I gave you an answer. You don't like it. Tough. Don't be so high on asking questions AC. You skip a few yourself. Don't talk about hypocracy again.

Answer the question or admit you can't. I haven't ever skipped anything of yours. If you feel I have, ask me again and I will answer right after you answer mine:

"For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?".

Your answer was incorrect, it wasn't not to my liking, it was wrong.

-AC

Darth Hord

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"WWE doesn't contain wrestling cos ECW apologised for Raven being crucified!". What?

Raven actually Crucified the Sandman. And if i remember right kurt angle as there it was one of the reasons why he didn't go to ecw or so he says anyway(sandman adresses this actually)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyF-LIQwcto

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Raven actually Crucified the sandman. And if i remember right kurt angle(so he says anyway) as there it was one of the reasons why he didn't go to ecw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyF-LIQwcto

Yeah I know, I watched it live. I think I may even have it taped somewhere. Originally it was going to be Dreamer, but he wanted no part of it allegedly.

Worded it incorrectly.

I'm just pointing out that his point makes absolutely no sense. He's arguing for "wrestling" at the same time as saying "Raven's crucifixion act was relevant.".

-AC

WrathfulDwarf

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then stop putting words and points into my post.

Pot calling the kettle black.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Fair enough. Austin is an entertainer, not a wrestler

Then this arguement is finally over.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Why is it ok for you to do that, but all of a sudden anyone who likes Austin is an absolute sucker and an idiot? There'a a difference between hype existing because the CONTENT is great, ie; Austin entertaining in WWE, and hype being used BEFORE hand to cover up for the content being shit, ie; Snakes on a Plane, which you love. You lack the comprehension to differentiate.

Oh-no-no-no.....Austin can be a very well liked personality. Can he be a well liked wrestler? No, he can't be, since he's not a wrestler. We agree on that...remenber it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It's why you're losing this debate.

I don't think we're losing anything. This isn't a race or competition. Oh, I'm sorry...you think it is? No, this is a discussion which you've tried to switch into a mud slinging contest. Cheaters never win AC. They're losers.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Any hype you go along with is coincidentally because you "chose" to. You're a fool, a liar and a hypocrite.

*baffle*

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

True. I can see the technical finesse, the mat work and grace, the sheer eloquence of that performance in wrestling.

Wait...Raven being crucified? Oh. Nah, that proves my point if anything.

As corrected earlier by the other member...it was Raven who crucified the Sandman. Yes, ECW does have their own show to put on. Wait...didn't I clarified that before? Oh, well.

Hold on! Speaking of crucified...didn't Stone Cold also got crucified by Undertaker once? OH MAN! I think he did! Hahahaha!!!! The hack strikes again!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

"WWE doesn't contain wrestling cos ECW apologised for Raven being crucified!". What?

WTF? Altering my comments?!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Neither, I do not suffer the idiotic burden of HAVING to separate them. It was a successful combination of what Austin brought and what people like Raven brought, people like Taz and people like Nova.

It's not idiotic...it's an observation. Clearly you're not getting that...you think you too clever there....go you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's precisely why I'm a music fan, not a fan of any particular genre inherently. Some pure wrestling is shit, some pure entertainment is shit. Hence why I am not committing to saying I enjoy one or the other inherently. I enjoy what I enjoy, because I enjoy it. You're using this thread as nothing more than an excuse to stroke your ego about what a wrestling fan you are, and the funny part is, you can't even do that right.

Don't talk about Egos AC...yours is one waiting to pop.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I'm waiting here for you.

Oh, you gonna have to wait a littler longer. It's almost 7:00pm here in Los Angeles. I gotta go out and eat some food. Then play some halo 3 and finally go to bed so that I can be nice and rested for the weekend. So, sit there and wait till the weekend is over.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

So me replying to you with my opinion is blowing it out of proportion, but you continually insisting I deify Austin, claiming I have a hard on, is not?

Yes, it is stop trying to say it isn't. It hurted you that I went straight into Austin and you came here to defend his image with your egocentric mind.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You are a walking gimmick, people are saying it to me as we speak.

I'm calling you one because you are being one, WD. No attempt at anything.

Pot calling the kettle black...AGAIN.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

All day? Nah, you never blow things out of proportion, do you?

Yes, all day including yesterday.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Answer the question or admit you can't. I haven't ever skipped anything of yours. If you feel I have, ask me again and I will answer right after you answer mine:

"For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?".

Your answer was incorrect, it wasn't not to my liking, it was wrong.

-AC

To ask you again is to drag all that other crap from before. We came to an agreement. Right? AC the question was answer. I gave you an answer. QUIT ACTING LIKE A PRIMADONNA! You are not making yourself look any brighter! You don't answer questions very well well. It's an old gimmick of yours to pose questions and try to twist things around. We know your tricks. We know your antics. We know YOU. Give it up.

My answer was incorrect....TOUGH SHIT! Deal with it.

Oh shoot! 7:00pm gotta eat.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Pot calling the kettle black.

Point proven. You can't maturely admit that you've been doing it, you just baselessly accuse me of doing it. Ultimate child tactic.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Then this arguement is finally over.

Would have been ages ago, but you decided you wanted to add to my post.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh-no-no-no.....Austin can be a very well liked personality. Can he be a well liked wrestler? No, he can't be, since he's not a wrestler. We agree on that...remenber it.

You're learning.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't think we're losing anything. This isn't a race or competition. Oh, I'm sorry...you think it is? No, this is a discussion which you've tried to switch into a mud slinging contest. Cheaters never win AC. They're losers.

Cheating has nothing to do with anything. You've lost because you've made incorrect points, stupid points, untrue points and YOU were the one who falsified my claims.

It's a discussion, a debate, and you lost.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
*baffle*

Thought so.

Might wanna stop calling us all suckers and such, next time.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
As corrected earlier by the other member...it was Raven who crucified the Sandman. Yes, ECW does have their own show to put on. Wait...didn't I clarified that before? Oh, well.

Yeah, it was you who initially said it was Raven, I was using it in my point. We both worded it wrong, irrelevant.

Point being, so what? That's not wrestling, that's entertainment. If anything, that's worse. That TRIED to be controversial and it sucked a lot of people into it for whatever reason, yet because it's ECW, it's ok to you.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Hold on! Speaking of crucified...didn't Stone Cold also got crucified by Undertaker once? OH MAN! I think he did! Hahahaha!!!! The hack strikes again!

How is that relevant? They stole the idea, yes, shitty move. Point? Actors don't usually write their own scenes.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
WTF? Altering my comments?!

I will openly admit that was an exaggeration, I would have thought that was obvious. I am not filling my posts with it, and essentially, that was the point you made. I've never said anything you've put in my posts. Ever.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's not idiotic...it's an observation. Clearly you're not getting that...you think you too clever there....go you.

It's a shit observation, saying there's no wrestling in WWE. No two ways about it, slice it how you like, it's a truly stupid observation.

Your point is essentially that WWE doesn't contain wrestling because you like wrestling elsewhere.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Don't talk about Egos AC...yours is one waiting to pop.

I'm not under threat here. I always get involved in debates I can handle, you see. That's the trick to it. Don't get out of your depth.

I'm not gonna dive into a debate with you about Batman's DC comics. I know next to nothing about them. If you can't swim, you stay out of the pool. You clearly watch wrestling without learning a thing from it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, you gonna have to wait a littler longer. It's almost 7:00pm here in Los Angeles. I gotta go out and eat something. Then play some halo and go to bed so that I can be nice and rested for the weekend. So, sit there and wait.

Halo? I WILL sit here, I'll sit and chuckle at the hypocricy a bit longer.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes, it is stop trying to say it isn't. It hurted you that I went straight into Austin and you came here to defend his image with your egocentric mind.

It HURTED me? Hahahaha, oh man. There are no words...

I don't care, I found the man entertaining, you'll obviously believe what you want, which is idiotic but ultimately up to you. When you start forming debates on it, that's the problem. I can only tell you you're wrong so many times before I realise you're just not gonna listen, because you're being stupid.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Pot calling the kettle black...AGAIN.

That "hurted" me. You're "mascarading" as a bully. I'm sorry, I'll stop. It's not your fault.

Point being; don't just say that. If you're accusing me of shit, prove it. I can easily prove MY case.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes, all day including yesterday.

I posted when you did, what's to say you weren't either? Exactly. Might as well stop being silly, WD. You're looking quite desperate right now.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
To ask you again is to drag all that other crap from before. We came to an agreement. Right? AC the question was answer. I gave you an answer. QUIT ACTING LIKE A PRIMADONNA! You are not making yourself look any brighter! You don't answer questions very well well. It's an old gimmick of yours to pose questions and try to twist things around. We know your tricks. We know your antics. We know YOU. Give it up.

Whoa, calm it.

I recognise you are feeling rather shamed, because being a global, these things just don't happen to you, do they?! Maybe this whooole debacle will teach you not to be so silly, to stop using that trademark WD tactic of...making things up and running with it, and learning a bit more about wrestling.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
My answer was incorrect....TOUGH SHIT! Deal with it.

...what? You don't even try to maintain a veneer of calm and finesse anymore, do you? You've just gone off the edge. I've drove you to insanity.

Still:

"For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?.".

-AC

TheGame17

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Point proven. You can't maturely admit that you've been doing it, you just baselessly accuse me of doing it. Ultimate child tactic.

Would have been ages ago, but you decided you wanted to add to my post.

You're learning.

Cheating has nothing to do with anything. You've lost because you've made incorrect points, stupid points, untrue points and YOU were the one who falsified my claims.

It's a discussion, a debate, and you lost.

Thought so.

Might wanna stop calling us all suckers and such, next time.

Yeah, it was you who initially said it was Raven, I was using it in my point. We both worded it wrong, irrelevant.

Point being, so what? That's not wrestling, that's entertainment. If anything, that's worse. That TRIED to be controversial and it sucked a lot of people into it for whatever reason, yet because it's ECW, it's ok to you.

How is that relevant? They stole the idea, yes, shitty move. Point? Actors don't usually write their own scenes.

I will openly admit that was an exaggeration, I would have thought that was obvious. I am not filling my posts with it, and essentially, that was the point you made. I've never said anything you've put in my posts. Ever.

It's a shit observation, saying there's no wrestling in WWE. No two ways about it, slice it how you like, it's a truly stupid observation.

Your point is essentially that WWE doesn't contain wrestling because you like wrestling elsewhere.

I'm not under threat here. I always get involved in debates I can handle, you see. That's the trick to it. Don't get out of your depth.

I'm not gonna dive into a debate with you about Batman's DC comics. I know next to nothing about them. If you can't swim, you stay out of the pool. You clearly watch wrestling without learning a thing from it.

Halo? I WILL sit here, I'll sit and chuckle at the hypocricy a bit longer.

It HURTED me? Hahahaha, oh man. There are no words...

I don't care, I found the man entertaining, you'll obviously believe what you want, which is idiotic but ultimately up to you. When you start forming debates on it, that's the problem. I can only tell you you're wrong so many times before I realise you're just not gonna listen, because you're being stupid.

That "hurted" me. You're "mascarading" as a bully. I'm sorry, I'll stop. It's not your fault.

Point being; don't just say that. If you're accusing me of shit, prove it. I can easily prove MY case.

I posted when you did, what's to say you weren't either? Exactly. Might as well stop being silly, WD. You're looking quite desperate right now.

Whoa, calm it.

I recognise you are feeling rather shamed, because being a global, these things just don't happen to you, do they?! Maybe this whooole debacle will teach you not to be so silly, to stop using that trademark WD tactic of...making things up and running with it, and learning a bit more about wrestling.

...what? You don't even try to maintain a veneer of calm and finesse anymore, do you? You've just gone off the edge. I've drove you to insanity.

Still:

"For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?.".

-AC

r u even talking about the actual topic?

Alpha Centauri

It's pretty impossible to.

His argument is that there's NO wrestling in WWE, contradicts it, but if you think there is, you're a sucker for hype and flashing lights, then contradicts that.

So the conclusion to be drawn is that he's silly.

-AC

SpadeKing

The rock

he had the best phrase

WrathfulDwarf

AC you need some fresh air.

Do kindly step away from the PC and go enjoy a walk.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Point proven. You can't maturely admit that you've been doing it, you just baselessly accuse me of doing it. Ultimate child tactic.

Would have been ages ago, but you decided you wanted to add to my post.

You're learning.

Cheating has nothing to do with anything. You've lost because you've made incorrect points, stupid points, untrue points and YOU were the one who falsified my claims.

It's a discussion, a debate, and you lost.

Thought so.

Might wanna stop calling us all suckers and such, next time.

Yeah, it was you who initially said it was Raven, I was using it in my point. We both worded it wrong, irrelevant.

Point being, so what? That's not wrestling, that's entertainment. If anything, that's worse. That TRIED to be controversial and it sucked a lot of people into it for whatever reason, yet because it's ECW, it's ok to you.

How is that relevant? They stole the idea, yes, shitty move. Point? Actors don't usually write their own scenes.

I will openly admit that was an exaggeration, I would have thought that was obvious. I am not filling my posts with it, and essentially, that was the point you made. I've never said anything you've put in my posts. Ever.

It's a shit observation, saying there's no wrestling in WWE. No two ways about it, slice it how you like, it's a truly stupid observation.

Your point is essentially that WWE doesn't contain wrestling because you like wrestling elsewhere.

I'm not under threat here. I always get involved in debates I can handle, you see. That's the trick to it. Don't get out of your depth.

I'm not gonna dive into a debate with you about Batman's DC comics. I know next to nothing about them. If you can't swim, you stay out of the pool. You clearly watch wrestling without learning a thing from it.

Halo? I WILL sit here, I'll sit and chuckle at the hypocricy a bit longer.

It HURTED me? Hahahaha, oh man. There are no words...

I don't care, I found the man entertaining, you'll obviously believe what you want, which is idiotic but ultimately up to you. When you start forming debates on it, that's the problem. I can only tell you you're wrong so many times before I realise you're just not gonna listen, because you're being stupid.

That "hurted" me. You're "mascarading" as a bully. I'm sorry, I'll stop. It's not your fault.

Point being; don't just say that. If you're accusing me of shit, prove it. I can easily prove MY case.

I posted when you did, what's to say you weren't either? Exactly. Might as well stop being silly, WD. You're looking quite desperate right now.

Whoa, calm it.

I recognise you are feeling rather shamed, because being a global, these things just don't happen to you, do they?! Maybe this whooole debacle will teach you not to be so silly, to stop using that trademark WD tactic of...making things up and running with it, and learning a bit more about wrestling.

...what? You don't even try to maintain a veneer of calm and finesse anymore, do you? You've just gone off the edge. I've drove you to insanity.

Still:

"For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?.".

-AC

More blah-blah-blah...

Still: