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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/GanondorfTP.jpg
Ganondorf
http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs11/300W/i/2006/221/9/f/Sephiroth___Plannet_Corruption_by_yukikominazuki.jpg
Sephiroth (Pre-madness)

VS

http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/6kefka-b2.jpg
Kefka
http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/2h/images.gamezone.com/screens/28/4/73/s28473_ps2_36.jpg
Vergil (No respect thread that i saw)


My VS Rules

-No healing magic, and this time, no enchanced regeneration

-No time manipulation

-No soul attacks/drains

-No Fallen One / Heatless Angel

Is this God Kefka with the power of the statues? If so, he wins by himself.

Hardly, he's powerful, yes, of course. But he was defeated by mortals while he was going all out.

Thus, this is a fair fight since Ganon has the power part of the Triforce, and Sephiroth is a legend for his power.

Kefka is the strongest, but his partner is the weakest link without that regeneration.

Everyone gets defeated by mortals, except Sephiroth never manages to actually "die", Kefka destroyed the whole world with the power of the statues, the only other person there who can do that is Sephiroth but he requires materia to do so

Originally posted by Terryc250
Everyone gets defeated by mortals, except Sephiroth never manages to actually "die", Kefka destroyed the whole world with the power of the statues, the only other person there who can do that is Sephiroth but he requires materia to do so

Not really the same

Kefka destroyed the world like, killed life and destroyed homes etc

Sephiroth would have smashed the world to bits.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Everyone gets defeated by mortals, except Sephiroth never manages to actually "die", Kefka destroyed the whole world with the power of the statues, the only other person there who can do that is Sephiroth but he requires materia to do so Ganondorf's immortality>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sephiroth's. Link is no mere mortal.

Sephiroth is immortal? ...... okay, thats news to me

Link is mortal as in, able to die.


He's techniqually not immortal but he always seems to come back because of his willpower, when he first died, he refused to merge with the lifestream and regenerated his body in the northern cave.

When Sephiroth died against at the end of FFVII, he finally merged with the lifestream but contaminated it creating the geostigma which gave him control of all the negative force of the lifestream, this gave Sephiroth extreme power, he created Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, and controlling Jenova he made the 3 of them seek out the jenova cells, restoring himself once again.

So is Kefka, and Ganondorf

Originally posted by Terryc250
Link is mortal as in, able to die. So is Cloud. And Sephiroth. Ganon is the only true immortal here.

^Yes and Ganon has been defeated by Link many times, as Sephiroth has been defeated by Cloud which is why i said "Everyone gets defeated by mortals"

Originally posted by Terryc250
Link is mortal as in, able to die.


He's techniqually not immortal but he always seems to come back because of his willpower, when he first died, he refused to merge with the lifestream and regenerated his body in the northern cave.

When Sephiroth died against at the end of FFVII, he finally merged with the lifestream but contaminated it creating the geostigma which gave him control of all the negative force of the lifestream, this gave Sephiroth extreme power, he created Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, and controlling Jenova he made the 3 of them seek out the jenova cells, restoring himself once again.

Ah i see, nice info.

So, I take it you think Kefka & Virgil win in a curbstomp?

Originally posted by Terryc250
^Yes and Ganon has been defeated by Link many times, as Sephiroth has been defeated by Cloud which is why i said "Everyone gets defeated by mortals" Link almost always has the ToC(the power of a God, tho he cannot use it to the extent Ganon can use the ToP, it grants him latent abilities). Also, Link has never beat Ganon 1 on 1 without some kind of PIS bullshit, like getting help, a long string of fights Ganon goes thru, and getting weakened by Link so that someone else seals him.

Sephiroth and Ganon go watch a movie after winning.

Well since this is pre-madness Seph, i'd say Kefka and Virgil wins, it would be alot closer if you used AC Sephiroth, we don't really know how powerful he is but he was stated to have "reached a new level of power" or somethin, he some of his power, when the gesture of his hand made the sky darken with the negative force of the lifestream, and with a thought made a giant building collapse.

AC Sephiroth makes the answer certain

Seph can take Vergil, as can Ganon, and then they double team Kefka. Also, Ganon doesn't have to do anything to make big black clouds appear.

Co-signed

vergil never got defeated by a mortal before, and he actually beats the main character plenty of times

Come on, this mortal talk is beside the point.

Ganon > Vergil

Sephiroth > Virgil

Either way, Virgil is kind of screwed

corrections

vergil>link>ganon. since he won many times and he's weaker.
vergil's basically too skilled for ganon to keep up with and is too hard to take down even if he gets him.

vergil beats seph too in terms of skill judging from his ac fight

by that logic, fire > ice > water, so fire triumphs water? Ganon > Virgil, superior magic, plus teleport = >>

You are aware he's mocking Cloud in that fight? heres him toying with the strongest members of SOLDIER befroe the events in FFVII
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He's still messing around, in this fight, he's going all out.

Can you spot the part where he uses two hands?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Ganon is the only true immortal here.

Expect Ganon has been killed in Zelda NES, A Link to the Past, and Twilight Princess so Ganon really isn't as immortal as you hope.

Originally posted by Remindme
heres him toying with the strongest members of SOLDIER befroe the events in FFVII

How can Sephiroth toy with himself?

Sephiroth outclasses Vergil in every single way except durability.


its funny because Genesis is going all out, but once Genesis is about to seriously injure Angeal, Seph gives him a chop to the arm and Genesis screams like a girl.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
How can Sephiroth toy with himself?

He's not toying with himself dobe, he's toying with Angeal and Genesis

Originally posted by Terryc250
Sephiroth outclasses Vergil in every single way except durability. Can't really assume that either, Sephiroth have never been tried, and if you check the first post, Virgil doesn't have that famous regeneration.


Originally posted by Terryc250
its funny because Genesis is going all out, but once Genesis is about to seriously injure Angeal, Seph gives him a chop to the arm and Genesis screams like a girl. Heh, yeah, Some poke their nose and say "No, Bad Boy" others cut their shoulder

sorry, vergil>seph in everything without his true form where he just has magic advantage. cloud managed to beat seph when he was a lowly soldier.

vergil's fast enough to teleport everywhere making it impossible for seph to hit, and he can cut up an entire area without moving from a spot.

vergil effortless catches bullets and throws them back at full speed. seph is comparable with cloud who has to back off while blocking bullets slowly.

Originally posted by lightness
sorry, vergil>seph in everything without his true form where he just has magic advantage. cloud managed to beat seph when he was a lowly soldier.

vergil's fast enough to teleport everywhere making it impossible for seph to hit, and he can cut up an entire area without moving from a spot.

vergil effortless catches bullets and throws them back at full speed. seph is comparable with cloud who has to back off while blocking bullets slowly.

Maybe you didn't hear me so I'll try again

Sephiroth was Toying around with Cloud in that fight

Originally posted by Remindme
He's not toying with himself dobe, he's toying with Angeal and Genesis

You said he was toying with the best SOLDIER.

He's him toying with the strongest members of soldiers.....

Meaning the guys at the top of the bracket, which is what i said....at no point did i suggest it was an individual

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Expect Ganon has been killed in Zelda NES, A Link to the Past, and Twilight Princess so Ganon really isn't as immortal as you hope. The Ganon in NES and ALttP is a weaker version of Ganon, Ganondorf is his much more powerful reincarnation(OoT is not the first in the series, FSA is). Also, Ganon in TP did not die, is connection to his body was severed to to Zant killing himself, and lets say he did die, he did so after the ToP for unexplained reasons left his hand, Ganon with ToP is immortal.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
The Ganon in NES and ALttP is a weaker version of Ganon, Ganondorf is his much more powerful reincarnation(OoT is not the first in the series, FSA is). Also, Ganon in TP did not die, is connection to his body was severed to to Zant killing himself, and lets say he did die, he did so after the ToP for unexplained reasons left his hand, Ganon with ToP is immortal.

If FSA is Four Swords Adventure than you are waaay off. OoT has been said by the grand creator of Zelda to be the first in the series. And you really have no evidence that the Ganon in NES and ALttP is weaker. He has the Triforce of Power in NES and is killed and he has the entire Triforce in ALttP and is killed.

Originally posted by lightness
corrections

vergil>link>ganon. since he won many times and he's weaker.
vergil's basically too skilled for ganon to keep up with and is too hard to take down even if he gets him.

vergil beats seph too in terms of skill judging from his ac fight Ganon is older, and is a better swordsman than Vergil, and has very powerful magic, also, never has Link ever beaten GanonDORF by himself, he has some kind of outside help.

Originally posted by Remindme
Maybe you didn't hear me so I'll try again

Sephiroth was Toying around with Cloud in that fight

vergil toyed with dante in their first fight and he actually won. not like seph who toys with the main character and ended up losing cleanly everytime(except his angel form which he lost to the team).

vergil can do what cloud did to him with telekinetic swords plus a lot more.

So you think a half demon > Magically powerful Warlord with the powers of 3 goddesses?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
If FSA is Four Swords Adventure than you are waaay off. OoT has been said by the grand creator of Zelda to be the first in the series. And you really have no evidence that the Ganon in NES and ALttP is weaker. He has the Triforce of Power in NES and is killed and he has the entire Triforce in ALttP and is killed. Oh really? I'll get the quote that states FSA is the first. Also, I go by feats, they were weaker.

Originally posted by lightness
vergil toyed with dante in their first fight and he actually won. not like seph who toys with the main character and ended up losing cleanly everytime(except his angel form which he lost to the team).

vergil can do what cloud did to him with telekinetic swords plus a lot more.

You seriously think Virgil > Sephiroth going all out?

Virgil was not toying with Dante, you have no evidence to suggest that, if you do, show me, if not, accept the facts we currently know.

The video i posted Clearly shows Sephiorth > Virgil in;
Skill
Speed
Strength
Reflexes

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Oh really? I'll get the quote that states FSA is the first. Also, I go by feats, they were weaker.

Let's see Ganon conquered Hyrule in NES and conquered the Golden Land in SNES. What grand feat are you looking for? Wait is it because the NES couldn't show off these grand powers that makes a castle explode?

Oh and you do know Four Swords Adventure is the sequel to Four Swords which is a sequel to the Minish Cap.

One feat that Ganon did thats never mentions is like create all the massive bad guys in the first place, that would take some serious mojo

Originally posted by Remindme
You seriously think Virgil > Sephiroth going all out?

Virgil was not toying with Dante, you have no evidence to suggest that, if you do, show me, if not, accept the facts we currently know.

The video i posted Clearly shows Sephiorth > Virgil in;
Skill
Speed
Strength
Reflexes

it's a fact that vergil could have killed dante but left him their, and he looked bored.

i didn't see a video showcasing anything spectacular compared to vergil

skill:vergil stoped ever drop of raindrop and formed a dome while fighting dante. plus vergil has more animeish fantasy sword cuts. pretty much all his sword cuts look extended/longer than his sword

speed: i don't see seph being able to dissapear everywhere like vergil did. vergil's faster than dante who can run faster than bullets

strength-vergil casually knocked a giant demon in the air and cut him in half with a kick. seph has never shown to be able to throw something that big and cut without his sword.

reflexes: already covered in skill/speed.

Originally posted by lightness
it's a fact that vergil could have killed dante but left him their, and he looked bored.

i didn't see a video showcasing anything spectacular compared to vergil

skill:vergil stoped ever drop of raindrop and formed a dome while fighting dante. plus vergil has more animeish fantasy sword cuts. pretty much all his sword cuts look extended/longer than his sword

speed: i don't see seph being able to dissapear everywhere like vergil did. vergil's faster than dante who can run faster than bullets

strength-vergil casually knocked a giant demon in the air and cut him in half with a kick. seph has never shown to be able to throw something that big and cut without his sword.

reflexes: already covered in skill/speed.

Choose not to finish someone off and going easy on someone are two completely different things.

Wow, cutting water is your reasoning as to having more skill.....are you insane? Sephiroth clearly shows more skill in the video i posted, you failed to prove anything. Sephiroth blade beam cut through the Junon Cannon without losing any of it's power, and in AC he cuts through buildings

Run faster than bullet without time manipulation? show me a video and i'll believe you, till then you have no evidence. In KH Sephiroth Spam teleports. in FFVII we see Sephiroth fly and go through walls.

Giant demon, how big is giant?. Sephiroth impaled a serpant over 100ft with a tree in FFVII

Originally posted by lightness
it's a fact that vergil could have killed dante but left him their, and he looked bored.

i didn't see a video showcasing anything spectacular compared to vergil

skill:vergil stoped ever drop of raindrop and formed a dome while fighting dante. plus vergil has more animeish fantasy sword cuts. pretty much all his sword cuts look extended/longer than his sword

speed: i don't see seph being able to dissapear everywhere like vergil did. vergil's faster than dante who can run faster than bullets

strength-vergil casually knocked a giant demon in the air and cut him in half with a kick. seph has never shown to be able to throw something that big and cut without his sword.

reflexes: already covered in skill/speed.

Vergils sword cuts are nothing compared to Sephiroths, Sephiroths slashes take down buildings and cuts through anything.

Throughout FFVII Sephiroth teleports anywhere he likes, appearing through the ground, through walls, in KH he teleports everywhere as he fights, slashes like 30 times in an instant, Sephiroth can also fly

We don't know the true strength of Sephiroth but he takes down buildings with his mind alone

Sephiroth was stated strongest FF7 character... this fight would depend on which version of him. Pre-Merging with Jenova form was god like being the best mortal soldier (Last Order fight and Crisis Core fight) but merged form (Seraph / Bizzaro) is probably too much... then again the game was inconsistant with showings of abilities (Super nova.... multiple times?!?!?!? wtf?)

If this were to actually take place in a game Sephiroths team would win cause Square Enix feels it has to please as many people as possible rather than going with consistancy and Sephiroth having a much larger fan base than pretty much any of the others (rated in 2005 best buy guy ever) they would make him win regardless of what would really happen (not to say he wouldnt or would)

Seraph Bizzaro is not Safer Sephiroth, Safer Sephiroth is the one that used Super Nova (The one with lots of wings and a few Halo like things)

Seraph Bizzaro is the one where you make teams to fight him on different sides

I was saying Bizzaro Sephiroth OR Safer Sephiroth...

I know about them... Bizzaro is also nigh indestructable without allies.

Sephiroth (Jenova merged) was also stated stronger than Kefka by a famitsu mag article.

Top 3 Final fantasy strongest final fantasy bad guys were:
Time Compressed Ultimacia
Tranced Kuja
Jenova merged Sephiroth

Oh, okay, sorry, all the brackets confused me a little ^-^

Is that the top strongest in order?

I hate Ultimacia and not in that she's a villain hate but that she was a horrible character. They had a well developed villain in Edea and they threw her away at the beginning of disc 3 for that useless crap.

Kefka

What about him?

Kefka in a massive curbstomp. I don't even think Gouki can beat him.

Originally posted by Remindme
Choose not to finish someone off and going easy on someone are two completely different things.

Wow, cutting water is your reasoning as to having more skill.....are you insane? Sephiroth clearly shows more skill in the video i posted, you failed to prove anything. Sephiroth blade beam cut through the Junon Cannon without losing any of it's power, and in AC he cuts through buildings

Run faster than bullet without time manipulation? show me a video and i'll believe you, till then you have no evidence. In KH Sephiroth Spam teleports. in FFVII we see Sephiroth fly and go through walls.

Giant demon, how big is giant?. Sephiroth impaled a serpant over 100ft with a tree in FFVII

dante caught his sword while speeding it up with a bullet to the point it just burned up the atmosphere.

they stopped every raindrop while countering each other's blows, and vergil did more blows without trying and created a dome. not cut water. not to mention vergil killed a reaper by stabbing it's shadow.

vergil's cut down monsters who can really tear down buildings and probably cut down building sized devils in his life(dante's down it and you know vergil's capable). and dante destroyed a building in the anime just when clashing blows with someone and powering up.

you really think that someone who can destroy giant devils with rock hard skin is incapable of cutting through a building with gameplay mechanics removed?

Originally posted by lightness
dante caught his sword while speeding it up with a bullet to the point it just burned up the atmosphere.

they stopped every raindrop while countering each other's blows, and vergil did more blows without trying and created a dome. not cut water. not to mention vergil killed a reaper by stabbing it's shadow.

vergil's cut down monsters who can really tear down buildings and probably cut down building sized devils in his life(dante's down it and you know vergil's capable). and dante destroyed a building in the anime just when clashing blows with someone and powering up.

you really think that someone who can destroy giant devils with rock hard skin is incapable of cutting through a building with gameplay mechanics removed?

Caught it? they were falling? and there was no time manipulation

Proably because of Dante's meat cleaver of a sword. If you see the sparks of where their blades meet it is much much slower than how fast Cloud fought Sephiroth in AC, and Sephiroth was TOYING AROUND, can't you understand? Sephiroth > Virgil in every aspect beside regeneration, and in this fight, thats off. I don't understand what the reaper thing has to do with your point.

In FFVII you play back through a memory, an rector is acting up and produces monsters, the first one is a dragon, Sephiroth two shots it, and takes 0 damage from it. All the enemies you encounter, he uses one spell, it's over. Sephiroth pulled down a huge section of a building by thought alone.

Either post a video showing us something i haven't seen, something that undeniably puts Virgil ahead, or quit trying, it's becoming tiresome

Sephiroth is greater than Vergil...but not by a whole lot. Just IMO.

Meh to each their own.

I think Sephiroth is leagues above Vergil. He's just below Genesis level, which in my book is way below Sephiroth's

Originally posted by lightness
dante caught his sword while speeding it up with a bullet to the point it just burned up the atmosphere.

they stopped every raindrop while countering each other's blows, and vergil did more blows without trying and created a dome. not cut water. not to mention vergil killed a reaper by stabbing it's shadow.

vergil's cut down monsters who can really tear down buildings and probably cut down building sized devils in his life(dante's down it and you know vergil's capable). and dante destroyed a building in the anime just when clashing blows with someone and powering up.

you really think that someone who can destroy giant devils with rock hard skin is incapable of cutting through a building with gameplay mechanics removed?

So I can't find this "stopping every raindrop" feat, unless it was done during gameplay, can you provide a link to the vid?

Also if your going by things done during gameplay as feats, Sephiroth is capable of doing extraodinary things, like take down planets in his Safer form

Originally posted by Remindme
Caught it? they were falling? and there was no time manipulation

Proably because of Dante's meat cleaver of a sword. If you see the sparks of where their blades meet it is much much slower than how fast Cloud fought Sephiroth in AC, and Sephiroth was TOYING AROUND, can't you understand? Sephiroth > Virgil in every aspect beside regeneration, and in this fight, thats off. I don't understand what the reaper thing has to do with your point.

In FFVII you play back through a memory, an rector is acting up and produces monsters, the first one is a dragon, Sephiroth two shots it, and takes 0 damage from it. All the enemies you encounter, he uses one spell, it's over. Sephiroth pulled down a huge section of a building by thought alone.

Either post a video showing us something i haven't seen, something that undeniably puts Virgil ahead, or quit trying, it's becoming tiresome

ok lets see

1.dante was running down the building and accelerating himself.

2. i already know seph toyed around with cloud, and it doesn't change the fact that he lost multiple times. vergil was looking bored when he was fighting dante the first time and pretty much toying.

if you can toy with someone and still win, it's impressive. when you do and lose, it's not that much to be happy about.

3. you can hear sounds in ac, as well as see their swords clash. and being able to teleport all around>jumping around in speed. the fact that their swords were so fast that they formed a dome and they were pretty much extended beyond normal lengths shows that it was faster.

4. vergil killed beowulf effortlessly without touching him after he gave dante problems.

Originally posted by Remindme
Meh to each their own.

I think Sephiroth is leagues above Vergil. He's just below Genesis level, which in my book is way below Sephiroth's

i think that was the intro, so just search for dmc3 intro or something.

the planet destroying is probably more of an illusion, as he would have killed himself if he really did. and it took a hell of a long time.

^ alright so i saw the vid, and it sure didn't looked like they were stopping every single raindrop, the dome was created because of the impact when they clashed swords, and can be visible because of the rain, which isnt as impressive as ur trying to make it out to be.

Originally posted by lightness
i think that was the intro, so just search for dmc3 intro or something.

the planet destroying is probably more of an illusion, as he would have killed himself if he really did. and it took a hell of a long time.

Theres never been any illusion attacks in FFVII, the summon isnt realistic because it is done in gameplay, like small cactus creatures surviving huge bahamut blasts, or Titan lifting and flipping thin air when the battle isn't on ground, or Neo Bahamut elevating a chunk of land, then disintegrating it, and then that land reappearing and getting disintegrated again when summoned again

Can I make avatars for you two?

^ sure, only if its good

LOL no one's above you you silly goose!

jk

I'll make you one later...maybe...

Originally posted by lightness
ok lets see

1.dante was running down the building and accelerating himself.

2. i already know seph toyed around with cloud, and it doesn't change the fact that he lost multiple times. vergil was looking bored when he was fighting dante the first time and pretty much toying.

if you can toy with someone and still win, it's impressive. when you do and lose, it's not that much to be happy about.

3. you can hear sounds in ac, as well as see their swords clash. and being able to teleport all around>jumping around in speed. the fact that their swords were so fast that they formed a dome and they were pretty much extended beyond normal lengths shows that it was faster.

4. vergil killed beowulf effortlessly without touching him after he gave dante problems.

So he can't move that fast them, he's using gravity to accelerate himself

Don't underestimate Omnislash, Sephiroth only loses because of this.

Vergil was not toying with Dante, If need be i'll ask Charlotte, she's the Dante expert.

Stop embarressing yourself, Sephiroth is so obviously faster than Vergil with a blade. How you can not see that is unbelievable.

Sephiroth killed creatures that would have took out entire crack team units without even trying.

Originally posted by Remindme
So he can't move that fast them, he's using gravity to accelerate himself

Don't underestimate Omnislash, Sephiroth only loses because of this.

Vergil was not toying with Dante, If need be i'll ask Charlotte, she's the Dante expert.

Stop embarressing yourself, Sephiroth is so obviously faster than Vergil with a blade. How you can not see that is unbelievable.

Sephiroth killed creatures that would have took out entire crack team units without even trying.

and the blade wasn't using gravity to accelerate itself too and he was obviously running

you stop embarassing yourself and show prof instead of downplaying vergil. Charlotte isn't always right either.

cutting buildings=power, not speed. omnislash didn't exactly look like a fast attack, it was just a lot of fast slashes. while vergil just slashes once to slash things a thousand times.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Theres never been any illusion attacks in FFVII, the summon isnt realistic because it is done in gameplay, like small cactus creatures surviving huge bahamut blasts, or Titan lifting and flipping thin air when the battle isn't on ground, or Neo Bahamut elevating a chunk of land, then disintegrating it, and then that land reappearing and getting disintegrated again when summoned again

realistically, nothing hints seph can survive if he really summons a meteor that can destroys the earth. unless he really can just make it reappear(what ever the reason is for other things reappearing).

Blade that i presume is sharp is going to cut through air.....

I trust Charlotte because she can admit when your favourite characters are beat.

Proof? fine

xAfTchSPEfU
rCPg_NZnXYk

Your turn to prove Vergil is faster, I expect videos.

Because they slowed it down for us, anyone can tell you that. Show me that then, prove it to me, i will not take your word for it.

Have u even watched the full AC CLoud vs Sephiroth fight?
_s2iaq_5faI
Look at about 2:10 when they are swinging at eachother Seph is parrying attacking at 2 swords, without even breaking a sweat, and each one of those slashes would bring down buildings

In kingdom hearts hes teleporting around everywhere
In FFVII he teleports and appears outta no where

Sephiroth is fast ok?

Originally posted by lightness
realistically, nothing hints seph can survive if he really summons a meteor that can destroys the earth. unless he really can just make it reappear(what ever the reason is for other things reappearing).

Summons have a strange way of never hurting wutever summoned it, anyway Meteor was never going to destroy earth, it was just going to severely damage it.

At the end of the second video, you can't even see Sephiroth cut Genesis, thats how fast he can be


Kingdom Hearts 2
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Kingdom Hearts 1
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kh gameplay vids werent really impressive(kh tends to slower gameplay with less gravity). watch some of vergil 3 fights.

cloud's not capable of cutting down building's with every swing. just his occasional power swings. afighting with 2 swords probably makes it harder to control/power, which is probably why he fights with 1 usually and takes them appart for variety(advantages and disadvantages)

dante cut his office in 1/2 in the manga with a casual swing so he can bring down buildings. and he can fight vergil with the wind/fire swords.

you want more feats showing vergil's superiority in speed, he can duel weild with the yamato and force edge easily, and switch between his different weapons in the middle of combinations with no slowdown awhile still attacking with telekinetic swords.(watch some expert gameplay combos)

and he can still float like seph if you count nero angelo, in dmc1.

Originally posted by lightness
kh gameplay vids werent really impressive(kh tends to slower gameplay with less gravity). watch some of vergil 3 fights.

cloud's not capable of cutting down building's with every swing. just his occasional power swings. afighting with 2 swords probably makes it harder to control/power, which is probably why he fights with 1 usually and takes them appart for variety(advantages and disadvantages)

dante cut his office in 1/2 in the manga with a casual swing so he can bring down buildings. and he can fight vergil with the wind/fire swords.

you want more feats showing vergil's superiority in speed, he can duel weild with the yamato and force edge easily, and switch between his different weapons in the middle of combinations with no slowdown awhile still attacking with telekinetic swords.(watch some expert gameplay combos)

and he can still float like seph if you count nero angelo, in dmc1.

Cut in the half?
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Whenever Dante sees dreams on panel, it's always nightmares. But those nightmares show us some of his origin... for example, how he was separated from his brother and how his mother was killed by demons. Dante sometimes hates himself for the fact that he was "too weak" at that time to save his mom from being killed(that's why he shose the path of the warrior and demon hunter).
Note- this is manga, so scans should be read from the right to the left.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6519/pg124125yj2.th.jpghttp://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9691/pg126127hg5.th.jpghttp://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6752/pg128129oj7.th.jpghttp://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4159/pg130131ym1.th.jpghttp://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3274/pg132133pz9.th.jpghttp://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2742/pg134135ox6.th.jpghttp://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6320/pg136137es6.th.jpg

I don't think that's exactly "cutting in the half", though yes, decent damage...
In Nero Angelo form Vergil was shown flying on supersonic speeds, even in human form he and his brother are fast enough to literally play tennis with bullets.
Not to mention Vergil mastered combat teleportation...though I gave evidences of Vergil's speed to Remindme.

Vergil wasn't really toying with Dante in their first fight, he's not THAT superior to him... it's just Dante coming into fight without attitude...he wasn't ready to fight his long lost brother to death. He lacked attitude and willingness to go all out (and also partially an ability to go all out since awakening of the demon in him happened after that fight and that lost).
Though if we trust Dante's origin depicted in canon comics/manga, in the childhood Vergil was better swordsman than his brother though eventually Dante mastered much more weapons, but Vergil for most part was devoted to swords. He's an expert in swords and to defeat him Dante really needs to go all out.

Next...running speed. Vergil sees running as "not noble" activity, so he has no running speed feats (though he's fast enough to keep up with his not-so-traditional brother in combat). Instead, he mastered combat teleportation (Dante isn't paying much attention to that teleporting power).

Now, videos.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel


Dante's first fight with Vergil on top on Temen-Ni-Gri tower where Vergil (a halfdemon himself and a little better swordsman than his brother (though when Dante gets serious and fights with determination to win, Vergil eventually loses)) seriously wounds Dante, thus awakening his demonic power. The brothers literally play tennis with bullets (bullets get deflected\cut in midair), as well as fight so fast that they slash raindrops around them.
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After that fight Dante desides to pursuit his bro. First he destroys a column with a Kenshiro-style punch ,making it explode from inside (though he uses his demonic energy instead of regular chi), then he runs down the wall demonstrating great agility, skills, smart fighting, as well as his best running feat in human form (runs faster than a speeding bullet in human form, probably at Max2-3 as air around him starts burning because of friction). In the end he almost flies... and gets swallowed by demonic flying whale Leviathan, so he has to travel through the behemoth's body from his stomach to his heart and kill him from inside.
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Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel


Dante vs Nero Angelo

Dante fights his twin brother, who was corrupted by Mundus and turned into dark demonic knight and a faithful captain of his army. Vergil forgot his human part and calls himself only Nero Angelo (Nelo is a common mistranslation due to the whole r-l issue in Japanese). He's a powerful demon, but eventually gets defeated by his brother who frees his soul. After "freeing" Vergil from his sad fate Dante finally gets Perfect Amulet.

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Here you can see how good Vergil is as a teleporter, as well as him flying on supersonic speed.

Vergil PWNS Beowulf
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Note- Dante allows Beowulf to live, but turns out that he lives only to be killed by Vergil, who becomes the first owner of Beowulf weapon.
http://www.devils-lair.org/cutscenes/dmc3/low/38%20-%20M12%20-%20Gauntlets%20of%20Light.avi

Gameplay examples of Vergil's combat teleportation ability
http://www.devils-lair.org/tourney/Marty-Darkslayer.wmv

Vergil's Sword Hanging ability (he's able to use his summoned swords for pseudo-TK)
http://www.devils-lair.org/movies/tutorial/broly2012-Vergil_Sword_Hanging_Tutorial.wmv

Originally posted by lightness
and the blade wasn't using gravity to accelerate itself too and he was obviously running

you stop embarassing yourself and show prof instead of downplaying vergil. Charlotte isn't always right either.

cutting buildings=power, not speed. omnislash didn't exactly look like a fast attack, it was just a lot of fast slashes. while vergil just slashes once to slash things a thousand times.

Agree with you. He RUNS down the tower since by just falling he obviously can't move faster than a speeding bullet or in that case sword accelerated with a speeding bullet, neither the air around you starts burning from friction when you simply fall down.
It's running feat without any doubt.

Also the blade wasn't just going to cut through the air (and if it comes to high speeds, air friction plays major role- notice the sword turning red hot because of it after it was speeded up with the bullet). The air just seems immaterial, but it has density and that's the reason of the whole friction issue. The air friction in lower layers of atmosphere also actually SLOWS objects down, on high speeds (more than Max1) they start burning because of friction (which we can see in the video). That feat also shows us how durable and sharp demonic swords are (the blade goes through a few demonic birds without losing speed).

Vergil's and Dante's demonically forged swords are also said to cut through anything (at least they cut through stone wall casually like it's nothing).

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
The swords forged by demons are said to be able to cut through almost anything on the human plane of reality. Here Dante proves that, effortlessly cutting an "entrance" in the stone wall of the castle on Mallet Island which was built as Mundus sanctuary. Though the castle itself is enchanted and shapeshifting and the wall "heals" immediately after Dante gets inside the castle.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1173/devilmaycry0120dg0.th.jpghttp://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1189/devilmaycry0121mx2.th.jpg

Back at his office Dante uses that wonderful quality of his sword by using the wall as a sword sheath.
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/404/devilmaycry0114af1.th.jpg

Provided scans are from CANON DMC1 comics.

You're just a DMC fangirl!

jk hug

Anyway, I think two wins and Kefka could solo the field.

lightness, here's a gift for you

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2151/dantesingmm3.th.jpg

thx char. is the dmc1 comic canon(havent read it). dmc3 manga is supposedly canon from what they say, and capcom added a scene based on it in se.

i think vergil was toying from my impression, he looked bored when deflecting bullets back and he could have dt'd easily if he wanted to.

vergil's teleportation in dmc3 is more speed boost based on what the manual said. nero angelo truly teleports since he dissapears into smoke and reappears.

dante catching his sword was clearly teleporting speed while running downwards, since they slowed it down so you can see how he catches his sword, and the bullet hitting it.

Originally posted by shin_gear
You're just a DMC fangirl!

jk hug

Anyway, I think two wins and Kefka could solo the field. No he couldn't.

Originally posted by lightness
thx char. is the dmc1 comic canon(havent read it). dmc3 manga is supposedly canon from what they say, and capcom added a scene based on it in se.

i think vergil was toying from my impression, he looked bored when deflecting bullets back and he could have dt'd easily if he wanted to.

vergil's teleportation in dmc3 is more speed boost based on what the manual said. nero angelo truly teleports since he dissapears into smoke and reappears.

dante catching his sword was clearly teleporting speed while running downwards, since they slowed it down so you can see how he catches his sword, and the bullet hitting it.

Smoke isn't the necessary attribute for teleportation. Just visual effect...Not any teleportation is Nightcrawler's-like.

There's no such thing as teleporting speed. There's just speedup to the point it looks like teleportation (the "teleports" of great deal of KOF characters, for example, are merely such speedups- like K's Blackout). Those are easy to tell from true teleportation because of afterimages in the middle. But that's just a speedup to the point beyond human perception.
Dante has both speedups (Dash, Wall Hike and Sky Star) to supersonic speed and one true combat teleportation move (Air Trick) in his trickster style.
Vergil, on the other hand, relies on combat teleportation for evasive moves instead of running. He mastered that a lot better than his brother and as Nero Angelo he demonstrated the mastery not only in combat teleportation, but in travelling one.

DMC1 comics by Dreamwave were Capcom-approved "comics adaptation" of DMC storyline. Though the last issue was never released and the series were unfinished (just like DMC3 manga).

there's not neccessarily afterimages if it's fast enough. like a lot of anime chars can't really teleport, but still dissapear everywhere.

the instruction booklet said vergil is faster than the speed of eye, so that's why i said he's teleporting in dmc3 from just speed bursts.

it's not that he can't use true teleportation, he just learns it later.

Well, in Dante's moveset in Trickster style they draw a distinction between running evasives (Dash, Wall Hike, Sky Star) and teleporting moves when you appar right next to your enemy in the blink of eye.

Vergil prefers second format as his evasives.

http://www.twilightvisions.com/dante/dmc/vergil1.htm
Vergil is blindingly fast, but he's too noble to just run, using combat teleportation instead of that. You can't evan see him moving even as a blur or shadow.

But the truth is that he completely mastered teleportation beyond just combat/evasive one in DMC1, and Dante never took his time to develop his abilities beyond just combat teleportation.

About Sephiroth's speed:

This is a translation of a DMW Scene, in CC



Sephiroth can teleport during the battle against Zack in the Mako Reactor(in CC) too.


And remember guys, these are examples of what human Sephiroth can do. Imagine what the demi-god Sephiroth of FFVII and AC is capable of.

Seifer Sephiroth is a beast. Let's just leave him out of this. Besides, if you check the first post this is clearly Sephiroth not in his seraphic form.

even seifer seph can be beaten by physical means(atleaste after aeris praying, however that works).

vergil runs when you are controlling him. boss vergil just walks slowly or teleports/dashes constantly

AC Seph is the strongest Seph, moreso than Safer. Ganon and Seph are really the perfect team.

My point was that even Pre-Nibel Sephiroth, is so fast that he can defeat a large group of enemyes in a single white flash. And he can teleport too.

Vergil is not the only characters in this fight, with super-speed and teleportation. Seph can do the same.

Originally posted by SHM
About Sephiroth's speed:

This is a translation of a DMW Scene, in CC



Sephiroth can teleport during the battle against Zack in the Mako Reactor(in CC) too.


And remember guys, these are examples of what human Sephiroth can do. Imagine what the demi-god Sephiroth of FFVII and AC is capable of.

Sephiroth was never human to begin with =P Hes half alien half human lol

I still think Kefka solos this.

Originally posted by SHM
My point was that even Pre-Nibel Sephiroth, is so fast that he can defeat a large group of enemyes in a single white flash. And he can teleport too.

Vergil is not the only characters in this fight, with super-speed and teleportation. Seph can do the same. Ganon also has super speed and tele, and can become intangible. Ganon and Seph win.