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Both are at their primes. Nihilus cannot use Force Killer.

1st match: Pure sabers

2nd match: Force fight

3rd match: All out

Fight takes place at a graveyard of planets on Malachor V.

1 Malak- was called a skilled duelist, more than Nihilus can say
2 Nihilus- Holding the Ravager together speaks to his power
3 don't know, I'll wait to see what other people say

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
2 Nihilus- Holding the Leviathan together speaks to his power

He held the Ravager together.

That would actually be a good and long duel, unlike if Nilihus went against Luke, that would be a quick death for Luke. So i say they would kill each other most likely, otherwise maybe Nilihus if he got the opportunity...really that's all it comes down too...opportunities, because...like i told Hord...it is never a sure thing in battle.

1. Likely Malak.

2. Nihilus, and I don't need a damn reason.

3. Nihilus, he would be dropping entire ships on Malak's head and is vastly more powerful in the Force.

To Sparrow, Luke>Everyone in SW.

Originally posted by Darth Sparrow
That would actually be a good and long duel, unlike if Nilihus went against Luke, that would be a quick death for Luke. So i say they would kill each other most likely, otherwise maybe Nilihus if he got the opportunity...really that's all it comes down too...opportunities, because...like i told Hord...it is never a sure thing in battle.

That depends on which Luke you're talking about.. NJO Luke would certainly NOT be going down against Nihilus, while Nihilus would OWN ESB or RotJ Luke.

1-We can't say, we don't know enough about Nihilus do determine his lightsaber abilities.

2-Nihilus owns on this one.

3-I'm tempted to say Nihilus because of his incredible Force powers, but I can't say because I don't know how good he was with the saber.. if he was good enough to hold off Malak for a while, though, then I think this would give him a chance to destroy him with his Force powers.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Both are at their primes. Nihilus cannot use Force Killer.

1st match: Pure sabers

2nd match: Force fight

3rd match: All out

Fight takes place at a graveyard of planets on Malachor V.

Saber fight likely goes to Malak. Nihilus never displayed anything impressive.

Force fight? A wtfpwnage for Nihilus. Not only does he have his drain, but they are on Malachor V, where he gained his uber power. NO contest..

All out? Also goes to Nihilus. Unless Malak can get close enough to him to unleash one of his many powers, he's drained.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Saber fight likely goes to Malak. Nihilus never displayed anything impressive.

Force fight? A wtfpwnage for Nihilus. Not only does he have his drain, but they are on Malachor V, where he gained his uber power. NO contest..

All out? Also goes to Nihilus. Unless Malak can get close enough to him to unleash one of his many powers, he's drained. I took "Force Killer"(It is not a damn drain) off. Also,I forgot to mention that neither get a boost from Malachor V lol.

Well, technically it is a drain. He uses it to feed on the life force of people and planets.

Even without Force Drain / Death Field, Nihilus still stomps Malak in a Force Duel and wins in an all-out duel. Not sure about the saber duel, malak might have that.

I'd probably give even the full-out fight to Malak. If Nihilus was the type to drop ships on people, why did he lost to the trio on the Ravager? I contend that Malak was the second most powerful Sith of his time and therefor defeats Nihilus.

Originally posted by -Blasmaster-
Well, technically it is a drain. He uses it to feed on the life force of people and planets. No, he does not kill planets, only their inhabitants. He instantly creates Force Bonds with his victims, and in that instant violently severs them, and feeds on the death it causes. Also, Nihilus lost to the trio on the ravager cause not only was he weakened from his hunger, but he was weakened again when he tried to Force Kill the Exile, which backfired cause Exile was also a Wound in the Force. Notice that when they confront him, Nihilus, despite already being weakened, with a mere gesture sends the Exile to her knees, and could have easily killed her, but tried to Force Kill her instead.

me>Luke

Nihilus wins

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
No, he does not kill planets, only their inhabitants. He instantly creates Force Bonds with his victims, and in that instant violently severs them, and feeds on the death it causes. Also, Nihilus lost to the trio on the ravager cause not only was he weakened from his hunger, but he was weakened again when he tried to Force Kill the Exile, which backfired cause Exile was also a Wound in the Force. Notice that when they confront him, Nihilus, despite already being weakened, with a mere gesture sends the Exile to her knees, and could have easily killed her, but tried to Force Kill her instead.

No. He doesn't just feed on the inhabitants of a planet he feeds on the planet's life-force itself. Look at Katarr. And I assume your talking to Glentract about Nihilus losing to the trio, because I never included anything like that in my previous post. I'm just pointing out that the Force Killer is a form of drain. Feeding on the death the Force Killer causes means feeding on the Life-Force of people and planets. He especially likes feeding on Force-Sensitives beings and planets because of the Force inside them.

Originally posted by -Blasmaster-
No. He doesn't just feed on the inhabitants of a planet he feeds on the planet's life-force itself. Look at Katarr. And I assume your talking to Glentract about Nihilus losing to the trio, because I never included anything like that in my previous post. I'm just pointing out that the Force Killer is a form of drain. Feeding on the death the Force Killer causes means feeding on the Life-Force of people and planets. He especially likes feeding on Force-Sensitives beings and planets because of the Force inside them. Well it was stated by kreia he feeds on the death his technique causes when he cuts his victims off the force.

As for katarr i believed he used the life drain technique as you mentioned out

1- Malak, Nihilus hasn't shown anything impressive with a saber

2- Nihilus pwns him

3- Nihilus pwns him

Originally posted by -Blasmaster-
No. He doesn't just feed on the inhabitants of a planet he feeds on the planet's life-force itself. Look at Katarr. And I assume your talking to Glentract about Nihilus losing to the trio, because I never included anything like that in my previous post. I'm just pointing out that the Force Killer is a form of drain. Feeding on the death the Force Killer causes means feeding on the Life-Force of people and planets. He especially likes feeding on Force-Sensitives beings and planets because of the Force inside them. Wrong. A drain does just that, it drains, and nowhere has it been stated that he drains the planet itself, otherwise it could not exist on its own, and it was stated by Visas that her planet still orbits in space.

Nihilus doesn't drain the actual planet, he just drains all of the life on the planet (creates echos in the force, echos kill life, he feeds on the death his echos cause..or something like that lol).
Malak can easily best Nihilus with a saber, but Nihilus can make Malak die 1000 different ways by using the force lol. Overall, probably Nihilus would win, but i'm not sure because i still think Malak's force abilities are better then Nihilus's Lightsaber skills.

Yes, Nihilus didn't show anything impressive about his lightsaber abilities, I give you that.

Don't forget that Malak killed 2 jedis, in the star forge, basicly using the force, killing one of them with a force choke followed with 1 saber throw and the other with a force choke followed with force lightning. That's impressive too i think, especially since he was not draining power from the star forge yet and he was attacking 2 force users who had penetrated far in the star forge defences.

I think that nihilus takes it if he instantly drains malak, otherwise he would be screwed...

In order for him to drain malak he would have to cut him off the force

It's one technique. Cutting him off of the Force is what kills them.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
It's one technique. Cutting him off of the Force is what kills them. No it doesn't.

Why? Because sidious and ulic's connection got cut from the force yet they didn't die.

The exile after the mandalorian wars got cut off too, yet she didnt die.

So i think its safe to assume he severs your connection, kills you then feed

Ok, the point here is this:

-Nihilus with instant kill=nihilus wins
-Nihilus without instant kill=malak owns his ass

Theres no "instant kill" kamhal, Have you not read what i posted earlier?

I have, and i also know that as far as we know nihilus' power was some kind of stronger force drain then the one used by traya in order to kill 3 jedi masters. So, even though we don't know his true nature, it surely seems like an "instant kill" to me.

No it isnt, seems that you have yet to pay attention to what has been stated about this technique, there is no drain at all.

What he does is basically cuts his victims of the force, kills them and then feeds on the death he has caused, THAT is his so called deadly technique which the exile has

The problem is, what kills them then? Because that's an important part of the technique you know...

Originally posted by kamhal
The problem is, what kills them then? Because that's an important part of the technique you know... What kills them? Can be anything, technology, lightsabers. Severing ones connection from the force does not kill you,

Originally posted by Thiru
What kills them? Can be anything, technology, lightsabers. Severing ones connection from the force does not kill you,

How is this an an explanation? And to set things straight. The Exile surviving without the force was an anomaly. Ulic' case was a light side technique that prevented him from sensing the force, he was still connected to the force he hadn't become a wound or a dead spot in the force. And even if he had (never stated) it was never meant to kill him.

As far as Sidious is concerned, he was never disconnected from the force, if you're referring to his abilty to hide right in front of the Jedi. He's mastery of the dark side was so immense that he was capable of affecting the Jedi's ability to feel the force, this coupled by the fact that he was using techniques to reduce his aura in the force, and presto... the perfect force camouflage.

In the SW universe life cannot survive without the force, and Nihilus kills his victims by completely disconnecting them from the force.

Kreia says it categorically, "it is a means of servering one's connection between life and the force and feeding upon the death it CAUSED."

Originally posted by Thiru
Theres no "instant kill" kamhal, Have you not read what i posted earlier? What you posted is wrong, so it doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Allankles
How is this an an explanation? And to set things straight. The Exile surviving without the force was an anomaly. Ulic' case was a light side technique that prevented him from sensing the force, he was still connected to the force he hadn't become a wound or a dead spot in the force. And even if he had (never stated) it was never meant to kill him.

As far as Sidious is concerned, he was never disconnected from the force, if you're referring to his abilty to hide right in front of the Jedi. He's mastery of the dark side was so immense that he was capable of affecting the Jedi's ability to feel the force, this coupled by the fact that he was using techniques to reduce his aura in the force, and presto... the perfect force camouflage.

In the SW universe life cannot survive without the force, and Nihilus kills his victims by completely disconnecting them from the force.

Kreia says it categorically, "it is a means of servering one's connection between life and the force and feeding upon the death it CAUSED."

Sorry to burst your bubble allankles but sidious got completly cut off the force by luke and leia and the only thing which killed him was his own force storm, he later reconnects himself to the force

Oh and jacen does the same thing to ben in LOTF and ben didnt die, so i guess your precious kreia is wrong once again

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
What you posted is wrong, so it doesn't really matter. And literally every thing you say/type is 100% wrong

@ Allankles

Vegere uses this on jacen and tholme does it to himself during the clone wars to act like he is dead from vos

Once again your precious kreia is wrong

@ Vegere uses this on jacen and tholme does it to himself during the clone wars to act like he is dead from vos

Thiru, since you seem rather stubborn in listening to the opinions of those who don't really have any 'credibility', I'll explain why you're wrong and the nature of Nihilus' power.

Originally posted by Thiru
so i guess your precious kreia is wrong once again

No, Kreia would actually be correct. Had you been capable of comprehending basic sentences and possessed the ability to reason logically, then perhaps you would've seen that.

There's a difference between merely cutting one's connection to the Force (which blocks the ability to draw upon the Force) - which is what happened to Ulic and Sidious - as opposed to breaking the bond between one's life and the Force. The latter half of which is exactly what Kreia states to describe Nihilus' technique.

As Allankles had said, life cannot live without the Force (even those disconnected from using it via 'normal' powers are still apart of the Force, like a rock or a plant is). The technique(s) we see people like Nomi Sunrider and others perform merely strips the victim of his/her Force sensitivity; thus turning him/her into a non-Force sensitive, no different from Han Solo. It does not sever the tie between life and the Force, which is what Nihilus' ability does (hence why they die).

As well, Nihilus' destruction of "all living things on Katarr" would've also killed all the flora and fauna on the planet (which we see depicted), which supports my point insomuch as fauna and flora would be no different than a sentient non-Force sensitive being (in that they are all still living because the Force is the life within everything).

In essence, because he killed non-Force sensitive living things in the same attack that he killed Force sensitive living beings, it would prove that he does not need to block anyone off from the Force (in the manner you're describing it) in order to kill them (because, as we know, non-Force sensitives cannot access the Force anyways). Thus, it'd be a singular technique (sever their life/force connection, at which point they'd be dead, and then feed) rather than using a certain order of attacks.

Originally posted by Thiru
And literally every thing you say/type is 100% wrong

Obviously it's not, as he stated what you had written above was incorrect, which it clearly was.

Originally posted by Thiru
And literally every thing you say/type is 100% wrong Lol right. Nihilus doesn't just sever ones connection to the Force, he severs their bond to it, as Advent pointed out. You are just trying to downplay Nihilus cause you hate him. The fact that you said he kills them first with tech or a lightsaber is laughable. It is one technique.

Originally posted by Advent
Thiru, since you seem rather stubborn in listening to the opinions of those who don't really have any 'credibility', I'll explain why you're wrong and the nature of Nihilus' power.



No, Kreia would actually be correct. Had you been capable of comprehending basic sentences and possessed the ability to reason logically, then perhaps you would've seen that.

There's a difference between merely cutting one's connection to the Force (which blocks the ability to draw upon the Force) - which is what happened to Ulic and Sidious - as opposed to breaking the bond between one's life and the Force. The latter half of which is exactly what Kreia states to describe Nihilus' technique.

As Allankles had said, life cannot live without the Force (even those disconnected from using it via 'normal' powers are still apart of the Force, like a rock or a plant is). The technique(s) we see people like Nomi Sunrider and others perform merely strips the victim of his/her Force sensitivity; thus turning him/her into a non-Force sensitive, no different from Han Solo. It does not sever the tie between life and the Force, which is what Nihilus' ability does (hence why they die).

As well, Nihilus' destruction of "all living things on Katarr" would've also killed all the flora and fauna on the planet (which we see depicted), which supports my point insomuch as fauna and flora would be no different than a sentient non-Force sensitive being (in that they are all still living because the Force is the life within everything).

In essence, because he killed non-Force sensitive living things in the same attack that he killed Force sensitive living beings, it would prove that he does not need to block anyone off from the Force (in the manner you're describing it) in order to kill them (because, as we know, non-Force sensitives cannot access the Force anyways). Thus, it'd be a singular technique (sever their life/force connection, at which point they'd be dead, and then feed) rather than using a certain order of attacks.



Obviously it's not, as he stated what you had written above was incorrect, which it clearly was.

Ok i thought they were the same exact technique, how does that fallanasi technique defend against this attack anyway

@Edit

About not being able to comprehend that sentence kreia stated, I have not seen that sentence since the last time i played K2 which was 2 years ago and i did not take allankles seriously hence i was being rude to some one who tried to express the facts. Theres also the fact that i did not believe what allankles said due to him overhyping nihilus alot to a point where he claims sidious and luke would be at a disadvantage if they fought him

Iv already conceded this point

@EDIT

Ignore the upper sentence, what i meant to say was so there are two completely different things as i failed to acknowledge because when ever either of them mention the term "Cut off the force" i would assume its the same case as sidious, ben skywalker or the exile which blocks the ability from using the force.

I DID not know that nihilus nature was different where it completely breaks your bond which is what kills you as you just explained to me.

You are right however in all the points you addressed especially the one where i failed to comprehend what kreia has stated about his nature, but as to why i was being stubborn is because V2k and allankles mentioned the technique in such a way that it sounded like the normal force sever technique.

Originally posted by Thiru
You are right however in all the points you addressed especially the one where i failed to comprehend what kreia has stated about his nature, but as to why i was being stubborn is because V2k and allankles mentioned the technique in such a way that it sounded like the normal force sever technique. First of all...why do you call my V2k? I admit, I should have made the explanation on the technique more clear.

Violent2Kinky

Originally posted by Thiru
@EDIT

stubborn is because V2k and allankles mentioned the technique in such a way that it sounded like the normal force sever technique.

How? When I've mentioned quite specifically here and in the other thread ,that he severs the connection between a person's life and the force? You either have comprehension issues or you're incredibly irrational, seeing as how you conceeded the point the minute the same argument came from Advent.

I think it's both but the latter is more prominent.

Lastly, the Falanasi technique - as you interpret it - is irrational in the SW universe. You can't disconnect yourself from the force and then reconnect yourself at will. Where would you derive the power necessary to reconnect yourself, if you are disconnected from the force (and therefore powerless)?

If you lose your sensitivity to te force, you'd need another force sensitive to restore your sensitivity. I'd offered you a chance to explain this popular intrpretation of the Falanasi technique, but you've yet to formulate an explanation.

As far Sidious and Luke being vulnerable to Nihilus, that's a fair assesment. I didn't say Nihilus would defeat them, but he certainly has a good chance of beating them. Anyone who has the force running through them is vulnerable to Nihilus.

Originally posted by Allankles
How? When I've mentioned quite specifically here and in the other thread ,that he severs the connection between a person's life and the force? You either have comprehension issues or you're incredibly irrational, seeing as how you conceeded the point the minute the same argument came from Advent. You could have made it clearer by saying breaking a bond between life and the force, again i did not know of this technique and thought it was the other variant.

I think it's both but the latter is more prominent.
Originally posted by Allankles

Lastly, the Falanasi technique - as you interpret it - is irrational in the SW universe. You can't disconnect yourself from the force and then reconnect yourself at will. Where would you derive the power necessary to reconnect yourself, if you are disconnected from the force (and therefore powerless)?

If you lose your sensitivity to te force, you'd need another force sensitive to restore your sensitivity. I'd offered you a chance to explain this popular intrpretation of the Falanasi technique, but you've yet to formulate an explanation.

As far Sidious and Luke being vulnerable to Nihilus, that's a fair assesment. I didn't say Nihilus would defeat them, but he certainly has a good chance of beating them. Anyone who has the force running through them is vulnerable to Nihilus. Except for the fact that luke has connected himself back to the force alone, and remember the same thing happening to sidious in dark empire? He reconnects himself to the force moments after this death as a spirit after getting his powers and force sensitivity disabled

And what? A good chance? Both would annihilalte him with ease. Sidious knows the same technique he does seeing that he has been stated to master every aspect of the force

Originally posted by Thiru
You could have made it clearer by saying breaking a bond between life and the force, again i did not know of this technique and thought it was the other variant.

You say 'breaking' I say 'severing': there's no difference between the statement you conceded to, and what I'd been saying the entire time. You're incredibly irrational, you continued to remain adamant despite the evidence that was glaring in front of you. As I said, a rational debater would never have mentioned 'credibility" that's a word guys like Saxy throw around when they've been schooled in the debate as well as in the insults.

You didn't base your stance on any kind of logic, just blatant denial, you've been found out. Next time I'll start by saying "Advent said", to get you to consider the logic of an argument, it seems you fold every time she argues against you.


Originally posted by Thiru
Except for the fact that luke has connected himself back to the force alone, and remember the same thing happening to sidious in dark empire? He reconnects himself to the force moments after this death as a spirit after getting his powers and force sensitivity disabled.

Then explain how that's even possible in the context of the SW universe? Given that being disconnected form the force, would mean you couldn't manipulate the force to any degree? Unless of course, the Falanasi technique doesn't actually disconnect someone from the force.

As for Sidious in DE he never lost his connection to the force in the first place, and his sensitivity was still intact seeing as how he was able to be connected to the force.

You don't seem to understand the enormity of the question I'm asking. How it is possible to connect one self to the force after being disconnected without the aid of another force sensitive?

You do realize what being disconnected means? It means he person would not be able to feel the force, and would not be able to manipulate it. So far the version of the Falanasi technique you're referencing is a hoax.

Originally posted by Thiru
Sidious knows the same technique he does seeing that he has been stated to master every aspect of the force

Sidious never uses the same technique, this has already been determined, upon further analysis. Sidious technique never severed the connection between a person's life and the force and then feed on the death the breach caused, he simply drained the force energy of the inhabitants gradually.

Sidious drained energy (it hasn't been established if it was just pure Force energy) from the citizens of Byss to sustain his failing health. There is no indication that, if he wanted to, he couldn't have ****ed the whole planet in one fell swoop. I will grant you that, based on abilities, Nihilus does stand a chance -- a plausible one -- of defeating Darth Sidious or Luke Skywalker. Yet that doesn't mean that he's stronger than either of them. Both of them outclass him in every other skill and technique and knowledge, and Sidious especially has a similar feat that can render Nihilus nonexistent as well.

Originally posted by Allankles
You say 'breaking' I say 'severing': there's no difference between the statement you conceded to, and what I'd been saying the entire time. You're incredibly irrational, you continued to remain adamant despite the evidence that was glaring in front of you. As I said, a rational debater would never have mentioned 'credibility" that's a word guys like Saxy throw around when they've been schooled in the debate as well as in the insults. I'll hint to you something, she made the statement far clearer than you could ever had, She elaborated and made it easier to comprehend, I already said time and again, i confused what you said with the normal force sever which blocks your ability with the force, If it would make you any happier, ill apologise, im sorry i misread it and misunderstood it. Now, will that do?



Originally posted by Allankles

You didn't base your stance on any kind of logic, just blatant denial, you've been found out. Next time I'll start by saying "Advent said", to get you to consider the logic of an argument, it seems you fold every time she argues against you. Lol, firstly she holds far more credibility than you, she reasons logically far greater than you and along with the fact that she is some one i respect and take seriously as opposed to you whom no body wants to take seriously seeing your unbelievable nihilus fanboyism making some of the most far fetched claims




Originally posted by Allankles

Then explain how that's even possible in the context of the SW universe? Given that being disconnected form the force, would mean you couldn't manipulate the force to any degree? Unless of course, the Falanasi technique doesn't actually disconnect someone from the force.

As for Sidious in DE he never lost his connection to the force in the first place, and his sensitivity was still intact seeing as how he was able to be connected to the force. More blatant denial, You yourself already pointed out being completely cut off the force would kill you(which i have accepted), what happened to sidious is what had happened to the exile and ulic, his control to his powers and force sensitivity were cut off and yet after his death, who was there to reconnect him? I doubt its an easy feat for a dark side adept to do hence sidious is most likely the one to do it himself

Ill give you the quote (s)


: Enveloped in light cut off from his great rage, The emperor finds himself unable to control the great rage he has unleashed.

That was after luke and leia severed his connection
Originally posted by Allankles

You don't seem to understand the enormity of the question I'm asking. How it is possible to connect one self to the force after being disconnected without the aid of another force sensitive? Wasnt this already explained?
Originally posted by Allankles

You do realize what being disconnected means? It means he person would not be able to feel the force, and would not be able to manipulate it. So far the version of the Falanasi technique you're referencing is a hoax. And so far iv gaven you the quote that sidious was disconnected, so far you fail


Originally posted by Allankles

Sidious never uses the same technique, this has already been determined, upon further analysis. Sidious technique never severed the connection between a person's life and the force and then feed on the death the breach caused, he simply drained the force energy of the inhabitants gradually. And what you fail to realise is its canonically stated he knew this technique in the dark empire source book, which part of mastering every aspect of the force Dont you get?


Oh and as to saying advent is right, maybe i reconmend you to read a few quotes they have posted a while back

Originally posted by Advent
So when Luke and his other students remove themselves from the Force, what happens then? Luke > Nihilus, and the Exile isn't the only person who can beat him.




Originally posted by Borbarad
Dude. This is stupid.
Luke can practically walk up to Nihilus being invisible and unsenseable through the force and cut the guy into pieces before Nihilus even knows what's going on.
Aside of this Nihilus attack doesn't work instantly (he stunned the Exile and his / her comrades before trying it on the Exile and had some time before using it - or something similar - on Kreia). So Luke could smite him with emerald lightning or cut him into pieces anyways.

Luke after the Black Fleet Crisis (Fallanassi ability - rendering himself invisible and unsenseable using the force for an infinite amount of time and without needing further concentration) is simply invincible when he wants to. That just doesn't happen because you won't have any plot left that involves Luke and some opponents.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Drain wouldn't work when Luke just creates a loop with the force, hides himself completely or disconnects himself...which is-sorry- instantaneous...and Luke's fast enough to have Nihilus in pieces before he can blink.

Sorry, but the overrated black hole loses on every account


Originally posted by Gideon
Who knows? Luke - by New Jedi Order - may possess the ability to cut people off from the Force himself. He did it with the help of Leia and Anakin Solo against Palpatine.

EDIT

Originally posted by Gideon
Sidious drained energy (it hasn't been established if it was just pure Force energy) from the citizens of Byss to sustain his failing health. There is no indication that, if he wanted to, he couldn't have ****ed the whole planet in one fell swoop. I will grant you that, based on abilities, Nihilus does stand a chance -- a plausible one -- of defeating Darth Sidious or Luke Skywalker.
Firstly how would nihilus even have the slightest chance if either of those 2 force users can instantly defend against this attack? Besides wheres the evidence to even indicate nihilus technique works instantly? He had to stun the exile before draining despite the fact that she allowed him to feed on her.

And i dont see why sidious, a superior force user can do planet wide drain when his inferior opponent which in this case nihilus can, because allankles is going to use his flawed logic of because guy a does feat X while B and C dont, it means A >>>>>>> b and c

He clearly indicated that in the other thread, and because sidious has never doen anything planet wide he is going to repeat the same thing

"Oh nihilus drained an entire planet, that shows unbelievable power and because the fact that luke and sidious never demonstrated power on such a high level, theres no indication those 2 are stronger than he is"
Originally posted by Gideon

Yet that doesn't mean that he's stronger than either of them. Both of them outclass him in every other skill and technique and knowledge, and Sidious especially has a similar feat that can render Nihilus nonexistent as well. Agree

Originally posted by Advent




Luke and his students have demonstrated the ability to remove themselves from the Force. So, how exactly is Nihilus going to drain something that basically isn't there?

^ another thing advent said allankles, i guess your wrong again

Originally posted by Thiru
Firstly how would nihilus even have the slightest chance if either of those 2 force users can instantly defend against this attack? Besides wheres the evidence to even indicate nihilus technique works instantly? He had to stun the exile before draining despite the fact that she allowed him to feed on her.

And i dont see why sidious, a superior force user can do planet wide drain when his inferior opponent which in this case nihilus can, because allankles is going to use his flawed logic of because guy a does feat X while B and C dont, it means A >>>>>>> b and c

He clearly indicated that in the other thread, and because sidious has never doen anything planet wide he is going to repeat the same thing

"Oh nihilus drained an entire planet, that shows unbelievable power and because the fact that luke and sidious never demonstrated power on such a high level, theres no indication those 2 are stronger than he is"


Agree 1. I'm pretty sure that the mini comic Unseen, Unheard shows that, and it was instant when used on Exile.

What Sidious did was a little different than what Nihilus does.

It does show great power.

2. Of course Luke and Sidious are stronger than Nihilus.

Originally posted by Thiru
I'll hint to you something, she made the statement far clearer than you could ever had, She elaborated and made it easier to comprehend, I already said time and again, i confused what you said with the normal force sever which blocks your ability with the force, If it would make you any happier, ill apologise, im sorry i misread it and misunderstood it. Now, will that do?

No it won't do, I said the EXACT same thing (barring a synonym or two), and you continued your denial despite the apparent logic in my argument. It doesn't matter what you say here, the evidence is in this thread. You didn't misunderstand anything, you based your acceptance of a logical explanation on your irrational dependance on "credibility".



Originally posted by Thiru
Lol, firstly she holds far more credibility than you, she reasons logically far greater than you and along with the fact that she is some one i respect and take seriously as opposed to you whom no body wants to take seriously seeing your unbelievable nihilus fanboyism making some of the most far fetched claims

What the hell does credibility have to do with the argument at hand? I don't care to earn your respect what I care about is that you acknowledge an argument on the merit of its logic, not based on your ridiculous and irrelevant dependance on "credibility". And who's nobody? Are you and Saxy everybody? No one but you and Saxy share this opinion, and I must admit you also happen to be among the weaker debaters I've had arguments with.


I don't think you're the right person to measure my capacity for reason. As I've demonstrated right now you seem to have this irrational dependence on "credibility", whille willfully ignoring logic and reason. Next time I have an argument with you I'll start by stating "Advent said" since you have this embarrassingly irrational notion that "credibility" supersedes rational arguments.


Originally posted by Thiru
More blatant denial, You yourself already pointed out being completely cut off the force would kill you(which i have accepted), what happened to sidious is what had happened to the exile and ulic, his control to his powers and force sensitivity were cut off and yet after his death, who was there to reconnect him? I doubt its an easy feat for a dark side adept to do hence sidious is most likely the one to do it himself

Ill give you the quote (s)


: Enveloped in light cut off from his great rage, The emperor finds himself unable to control the great rage he has unleashed

That was after luke and leia severed his connection
Wasnt this already explained?
And so far iv gaven you the quote that sidious was disconnected, so far you fail.

Ulic and the Emperor were blinded to the force, their connection was still intact. And with the Emperor he inherited another body, so how would he have been affected, by the effects of the wall of light?

The Falanasi technique as you interpret it suggests either a loss of force sensitivity (meaning the person no longer feels the force and would need aid to feel the force again), or they are completely diconnected form the force meaning they'd be dead.


The Exile was an anomaly and though she appeared to have disconnected herself from the force, she was still partially connected as she demonstrates in Kotor 2 with her force bond (the same for Nihilus). Importantly, she reconnected with HELP from Kreia.

Two it should be noted that the Exile becomes a wound in the force and her connection never fully heals. These Falanasi practioners you mention never become wounds in the force, and that would mean that all the technique does is hide the practioners force sensitivity.


Originally posted by Thiru
And what you fail to realise is its canonically stated he knew this technique in the dark empire source book, which part of mastering every aspect of the force Dont you get?


Oh and as to saying advent is right, maybe i reconmend you to read a few quotes they have posted a while back

Whether or not he knew the technique is irrelevant. It's a technique that many Sith would have KNOWN about, however to delve into it, as Nihilus did is something most Sith would have avoided.

"It is an empty road to the dark side", Kreia states "and leaves behind nothing to conquer".

Lightsaber duel: Malak (he's a good duelist, Nihilus isn't anything special in this respect)

Force duel: Nihilus by far

All-out: Nihilus by a fair amount, but not by far

Originally posted by Allankles
No it won't do, I said the EXACT same thing (barring a synonym or two), and you continued your denial despite the apparent logic in my argument. It doesn't matter what you say here, the evidence is in this thread. You didn't misunderstand anything, you based your acceptance of a logical explanation on your irrational dependance on "credibility".





What the hell does credibility have to do with the argument at hand? I don't care to earn your respect what I care about is that you acknowledge an argument on the merit of its logic, not based on your ridiculous and irrelevant dependance on "credibility". And who's nobody? Are you and Saxy everybody? No one but you and Saxy share this opinion, and I must admit you also happen to be among the weaker debaters I've had arguments with. This has been settled via PM so ill drop it
Originally posted by Allankles

I don't think you're the right person to measure my capacity for reason. As I've demonstrated right now you seem to have this irrational dependence on "credibility", whille willfully ignoring logic and reason. Next time I have an argument with you I'll start by stating "Advent said" since you have this embarrassingly irrational notion that "credibility" supersedes rational arguments. She did say luke can remove himself from the force though, but i think she meant mask his sensitivity



Originally posted by Allankles

Ulic and the Emperor were blinded to the force, their connection was still intact. And with the Emperor he inherited another body, so how would he have been affected, by the effects of the wall of light?
Possibly
Originally posted by Allankles

The Falanasi technique as you interpret it suggests either a loss of force sensitivity (meaning the person no longer feels the force and would need aid to feel the force again), or they are completely diconnected form the force meaning they'd be dead. I'm willing to think it masks your force sensitivity where it appears like you removed yourself from the force, I have also mentioned this in the Pm's

Originally posted by Allankles

The Exile was an anomaly and though she appeared to have disconnected herself from the force, she was still partially connected as she demonstrates in Kotor 2 with her force bond (the same for Nihilus). Importantly, she reconnected with HELP from Kreia. May i ask, how did she end up in that state? Its been ages since iv played K2 and i wouldn't want to use wookie as a source seeing that some of it may not be 100% true. I know she has been blinded to the force but how was did she appear to be "disconnected" from the force?
Originally posted by Allankles

Two it should be noted that the Exile becomes a wound in the force and her connection never fully heals. These Falanasi practioners you mention never become wounds in the force, and that would mean that all the technique does is hide the practioners force sensitivity. I agreed to that, look up a few posts



Originally posted by Allankles

Whether or not he knew the technique is irrelevant. It's a technique that many Sith would have KNOWN about, however to delve into it, as Nihilus did is something most Sith would have avoided.

"It is an empty road to the dark side", Kreia states "and leaves behind nothing to conquer". Its irrelevant so i'll drop it

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. I'm pretty sure that the mini comic Unseen, Unheard shows that, and it was instant when used on Exile.

It shows the technique (s) but it doesnt show it being instant, Besides for a technique powerful enough to break your bond it is going to take at the least, seconds.

He stunned the exile and even as she allowed him to drain her, he still waited a few moments before attempting to feed

Originally posted by Thiru
This has been settled via PM so ill drop it
She did say luke can remove himself from the force though, but i think she meant mask his sensitivity

If you check the time, I wrote this before writing the PM.



Originally posted by Thiru
Possibly
I'm willing to think it masks your force sensitivity where it appears like you removed yourself from the force, I have also mentioned this in the Pm's

Wrote before reading your PM.

Originally posted by Thiru
May i ask, how did she end up in that state? Its been ages since iv played K2 and i wouldn't want to use wookie as a source seeing that some of it may not be 100% true. I know she has been blinded to the force but how was did she appear to be "disconnected" from the force?

Well as you know Revan set up Malachor 5 as a staging ground to wipe out all the Republic soldiers, and Jedi that were not loyal to him (the Exile being among them). The Exile's capacity to form force bonds with ease, meant she was strongly connected to the Republic soldiers and (especially) the Jedi under her command.

The death of her soldiers and the Jedi caused her a great deal of pain because of this connection and she "cut" her own connection to the force in fear that she may fall to the dark side or die. Her guilt at having been the one that killed a large number of her own men, might also have contributed to her pain.

Originally posted by Thiru
It shows the technique (s) but it doesnt show it being instant, Besides for a technique powerful enough to break your bond it is going to take at the least, seconds.

He stunned the exile and even as she allowed him to drain her, he still waited a few moments before attempting to feed Okay. If a thug breaks his victims leg with a crowbar, and then waits a few seconds to shoot her in the head, does it take a few seconds for him to shoot her in the head? I think not.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Okay. If a thug breaks his victims leg with a crowbar, and then waits a few seconds to shoot her in the head, does it take a few seconds for him to shoot her in the head? I think not. But the problem is your metaphor has no relevance to his technique seeing that he waited several moments before he attempted to feed on her even after she allowed him to feed on her. And for a technique to be powerful enough to break your bond to the force, its going to at the least, take seconds and thus nihilus was preparing to strike the moment the exile allowed him to do so

Originally posted by Thiru
But the problem is your metaphor has no relevance to his technique seeing that he waited several moments before he attempted to feed on her even after she allowed him to feed on her. And for a technique to be powerful enough to break your bond to the force, its going to at the least, take seconds and thus nihilus was preparing to strike the moment the exile allowed him to do so I see what you are saying, but I still find it iffy. Also, she didn't really ALLOW him...she was stunned, at his mercy, he could have lobbed off her head with a saber. Tho him trying to feed on her did work greatly in her team's advantage.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I see what you are saying, but I still find it iffy. Also, she didn't really ALLOW him...she was stunned, at his mercy, he could have lobbed off her head with a saber. Tho him trying to feed on her did work greatly in her team's advantage. She allowed him to to feed on her, its in the dialogue canonically. Yes while nihilus could have easily slaughtered the team save for visas, he needed to feed in order to survive.

But what i don't get is if he feeds on the death he causes, why didn't he just chop her and kill her with his lightsaber? Im pretty sure her death would still feed him despite the fact he uses a different means of killing his victims. Because the exile too unknowingly fed on the death she caused when she killed her victims as stated by the jedi masters of kreia (Unable to remember who).

Originally posted by Thiru
She allowed him to to feed on her, its in the dialogue canonically. Yes while nihilus could have easily slaughtered the team save for visas, he needed to feed in order to survive.

But what i don't get is if he feeds on the death he causes, why didn't he just chop her and kill her with his lightsaber? Im pretty sure her death would still feed him despite the fact he uses a different means of killing his victims. Because the exile too unknowingly fed on the death she caused when she killed her victims as stated by the jedi masters of kreia (Unable to remember who). 1. It did? I can't remember that part. Oh yeah, if he killed Visas, he would have greatly weakened himself(not killed tho, as shown by when you get her to sacrifice herself, and he is just stunned, not dead).

2. Hmmm...not sure, it could be because when they died, they were still connected to the Force, and were beyond his reach for feeding, but you make up a good point. As for Exile, I'm not sure, it is implied she does Nihilus' technique subconciously, as shown when you are evil and kill the Jedi Masters. She just kinda...DOES the technique, as unlike Nihilus, she lacks control of it's power.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. It did? I can't remember that part. Oh yeah, if he killed Visas, he would have greatly weakened himself(not killed tho, as shown by when you get her to sacrifice herself, and he is just stunned, not dead).

2. Hmmm...not sure, it could be because when they died, they were still connected to the Force, and were beyond his reach for feeding, but you make up a good point. As for Exile, I'm not sure, it is implied she does Nihilus' technique subconciously, as shown when you are evil and kill the Jedi Masters. She just kinda...DOES the technique, as unlike Nihilus, she lacks control of it's power. Yea i know that, i was referring to the exile and mandalore.

About still being connected to the force well the exile's victims are all still intouch with the force when she fed on their death so this could be ambiguous

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
2. Hmmm...not sure, it could be because when they died, they were still connected to the Force, and were beyond his reach for feeding, but you make up a good point. As for Exile, I'm not sure, it is implied she does Nihilus' technique subconciously, as shown when you are evil and kill the Jedi Masters. She just kinda...DOES the technique, as unlike Nihilus, she lacks control of it's power.

The Exile being evil is not canonical, therefore that point is irrelevant.

The Exile's true danger was that she formed bonds and turned people to her cause through the Force subconsciously, and therefore was not only an uncannily charismatic leader, but also had control over her followers to an extremely high extent.

OP, what has Malak done to show he can resist drain?

Nihilus rapes