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I noticed LOTF is beginning to overhype jacen solo and possibly contradict prievious statements of palpatine being the strongest sith lord.

What are your opinions?

I think Sidious would come out on top. The saber fight would be closer than the force fight.

Jacen gave Luke a good fight. I say he beats Sidious. Sidious was the strongest Sith, Jacen just became stronger, so the statament wouldn't really be contridicted.

Jacen is NOT stronger than Luke. Sidious beats him in a saber duel with some difficulty, then proceeds to spank him with the force.

I don't really think Jacen is stronger than Sidious.

Sidious rapes his no problem.

Imo sidious beats the hell out of him with the force

Sidious laughs as he destroys Caedus, and then call him a deluded Vader.

I think some of you are underrating Caedus. Sidious' lightning won't be effective against him because any pain will only make him stronger. And Caedus hiding in the force will mean Sidious' precognition will be hindered. Not to mention, Luke's dueling skills apparently improved since DE, so Caedus losing to him in a close battle is better than Sidious can say.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Jacen gave Luke a good fight. I say he beats Sidious. Sidious was the strongest Sith, Jacen just became stronger, so the statament wouldn't really be contridicted.

I haven't read the last of LotF so... since when is Jacen powerful enough for some people to say he might even beat DE Sidious or give him a very hard fight??

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
I think some of you are underrating Caedus. Sidious' lightning won't be effective against him because any pain will only make him stronger. And Caedus hiding in the force will mean Sidious' precognition will be hindered. Not to mention, Luke's dueling skills apparently improved since DE, so Caedus losing to him in a close battle is better than Sidious can say. Sidious can do anything caedus does, like hiding in the force.

Sidious mastered more techniques than caedus

Anybody mind telling me how Sidious beats Caedus, let alone rapes him, when Caedus was close enough to LotF Luke in a saber duel that he actually injured him?

Because Luke was raping Jacen almost the whole fight. It was pretty obvious that luke was winning. And luke showed he could easily use the force to make Jacen his b!tch earlier in the book with the whole chair thing. Palpatine would use the full dark side powers and JAcen would be done for.

Really.


Really. Is that why Caedus managed to break Luke's nose, shoulder and leg?



Well then, either something happened to make Caedus a LOT stronger by the end of the book, or there is an inconsistency, in which case the strong version of Caedus (who broke Luke's nose, shoulder and leg) could at least give Sidious a great fight, and quite possibly win.

The fact that Luke saw what was happening with Ben and the fact that Luke killing Jacen would turn Ben to the darkside is what stopped him from going all out.

Right, an all out luke will annihilate just about anybody

Seeing that the true sith died out in ROTJ and caedus becoming a full sith lord. Doesnt that contradict GL's word?

Somewhat. Basically his whole legacy was tarnished when he didn't give a shit anymore, because he was already a billionaire. But the real sith died at Endor. Everyone else was a pretender.

If he doesn't care, then I'm surprised no one ever made a lame novel that depicted Revan as a god. XD

But one question remains, as of now, who is the most powerful sith lord?

Caedus or sidious?

The only one claiming caedus is the most powerful is darth sith and that is absurd.

Palpatine obviously mastered every aspect of the force, he could create a vortex which destroyed a rebel fleet and possibly he can make it big enough to devour a planet.

We have also seen palpatine reducing 3 powerful sith acolytes to dust with one shot of lightning

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sidious can do anything caedus does, like hiding in the force.

Sidious mastered more techniques than caedus
Sure he can hide in the force, but can you give me evidence he does this constantly in battle?
And Jacen using pain to help him came from his time with the Vong.


If this is a fight then I think Caedus could win this.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Sure he can hide in the force, but can you give me evidence he does this constantly in battle?
Does jacen do this constantly? So what if he does? Its not like palpatine cant see him physically . And why wouldnt palpatine use it against a dangerous opponent?

Thats like asking "Oh would palpatine loop himself out of the force if he fights nihilus?"


Is palpatine using that technique in jacens case even a necessity? He has unlimited techniques which can suprise jacen and along that his superior strength in the force. Name me a few feats which indicates jacen > sidious other than words coming from inconsistent authors who fail to acknowledge lucas statements thus going against canon

The thing is theres enough evidence to put palpatine stronger in the force than jacen along with feats he had performed.

LOTF is super inconsistent and alot of its crap like "jacen will surpass luke when he becomes a dark lord" is all ambiguous because it contradicts so many things. Caedus existence already contradicts the statements of george lucas

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

And Jacen using pain to help him came from his time with the Vong.

So?

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

If this is a fight then I think Caedus could win this. You claim caedus will win yet you fail to say why or how

Before you ramble "Oh shits caedus can cut him off the force with no effort at all!"

What makes you think sidious cant do the same? Seeing that he mastered every aspect of the force maximizing each and every technique.


Caedus is no where on the level of sidious or luke in the force. As for a saber duel id agree it would be close

It never stated that Caedus will become more powerful than Luke, because GL would shit a brick. It was Jacen's own thought that he would become more powerful than Luke.

I thought that was stated by the omniscient narrator in bloodlines?

Guys, Luke was going all-out against Jacen, and the book says that he was prepared to kill him. It was only after Ben escaped and prepared to kill a gravely injured Jacen that Luke realized that killing him in anger would mean turning to the dark side. Before that, Luke was going all-out.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Guys, Luke was going all-out against Jacen, And note that jacen was getting his ass kicked very badly by luke despite luke going all out with a lightsaber.

Luke will own him in a force fight and so would sidious

Originally posted by Gideon
Certainly.

The premise is that Jacen has captured Ben Skywalker on board his flagship, and is torturing him via a Yuuzhan Vong device called the 'Embrace of Pain'. Luke -- who has had a major falling out with Jacen by this point -- fakes his death in the ensuing space battle outside. He sneaks into Jacen's flagship and immediately attempts to kill him. Jacen narrowly avoids getting struck down and they duel; the fight is very aggressive and very violent (it's not just your regular 'swing the saber' fight, it easily outclasses anything in the movies and most of the duels in the EU). They are said to swing their sabers faster than the eye can see. Jacen is on the losing end; Luke ends up delivering a palm-sized hole through Jacen's skull, he's stabbed in the abdomen, and is literally getting the shit kicked out of him. But to Jacen's credit, he takes advantage of Luke's recklessness to dislocate his knee and -- later will inflict two black eyes and numerous bruises -- but he's losing. He eventually gets the upper hand and begins to choke Luke with some poisoned-Vong vine. Luke manages to break out of it and is about to continue the fight when Ben releases himself from the Embrace of Pain and hurls a vibrodagger into Jacen's back.

Jacen later says that Ben doing this actually saved his life; it snapped Luke out of his 'kill-mode' and they allow Jacen to escape.

Edit:

Earlier in the novelization, Luke confronts Jacen about the death of Cal Omas (who was inadvertantly killed by Ben, who was 'sent' by Jacen to Omas under the deception that Omas arranged for Mara's death). Luke threatens to withdraw Jedi support from the Alliance and demands that Jacen admit the truth to Luke; Jacen denies that he had anything to do with Omas's death.

So Luke yanks him -- and his command chair -- into the air and keeps him suspended without any effort. Jacen, despite trying all his might, can't break out.

Luke says that the Jedi will not support Jacen, and Jacen implies that he will exact vengeance on Jedi younglings (who are being monitored by GAG troops). Luke essentially dares Jacen to make the threat, saying: "You really don't want to see me angry. And I think you're smart enough to know it."

Jacen laments that "the only thing standing between him and a quick death was Luke Skywalker's much-strained sense of decency." ^ This says enough

Originally posted by Manslayer
Does jacen do this constantly? So what if he does? Its not like palpatine cant see him physically .
Yes, Caedus hiding in the force will mean Sidious' precognition will be hindered. Let me explain. Jacen's lightsaber is moving faster than the eye can see. Meaning Palpatine will rely even more on the force to predict Jacen's moves. Only he won't be able to sense what Caedus is doing, or about to do.

DE Luke was a dangerous opponent was he not? Why didn't Sidious use every obscure force technique he knew against him?

Nihilus fighting Sidious is a completely different situation. Sidious would surely sense he was going to drain him, and then he would loop out of the force. When has Jacen used a drain?


DE Luke was a dangerous opponent was he not? Why didn't Sidious use every obscure force technique he knew against him? OK, I'll name some feats of Jacen's other than ones from novels . Oh wait, he has only appeared in novels. What words of Lucas are you talking about?


I am not denying that.


You said Sidious could do anything Caedus can do. I was showing you how that statement is wrong.


Other than you and Darthsith, all anyone has given for proof is "Sidious rapes Caedus no problem!!!!"
To quote myself:

And Caedus managed to wound Luke, and even hit him with some force thrown objects. And Caedus's saber moved faster than the eye could see.


Why would I say that? If that was possible Nomi would be the best around.

He maximized every technique


I thought this was an all out fight. Once they get close enough for Caedus to use his lightsaber he can beat Sidious.


Wait, I thought this was an all out fight.


Did you even read the book? Luke manages to hit Jacen first because he has the advantage of suprise. Then Caedus does very well against him. When does Luke gain the upper hand? After he force pushes him into some tentacles. And Caedus does still fight a while longer against him.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Yes, Caedus hiding in the force will mean Sidious' precognition will be hindered. Let me explain. Jacen's lightsaber is moving faster than the eye can see. Meaning Palpatine will rely even more on the force to predict Jacen's moves. Only he won't be able to sense what Caedus is doing, or about to do.

DE Luke was a dangerous opponent was he not? Why didn't Sidious use every obscure force technique he knew against him?

Nihilus fighting Sidious is a completely different situation. Sidious would surely sense he was going to drain him, and then he would loop out of the force. When has Jacen used a drain?


DE Luke was a dangerous opponent was he not? Why didn't Sidious use every obscure force technique he knew against him? OK, I'll name some feats of Jacen's other than ones from novels . Oh wait, he has only appeared in novels. What words of Lucas are you talking about?


I am not denying that.


You said Sidious could do anything Caedus can do. I was showing you how that statement is wrong.


Other than you and Darthsith, all anyone has given for proof is "Sidious rapes Caedus no problem!!!!"
To quote myself:

And Caedus managed to wound Luke, and even hit him with some force thrown objects. And Caedus's saber moved faster than the eye could see.


Why would I say that? If that was possible Nomi would be the best around.

He maximized every technique


I thought this was an all out fight. Once they get close enough for Caedus to use his lightsaber he can beat Sidious.


Wait, I thought this was an all out fight.


Did you even read the book? Luke manages to hit Jacen first because he has the advantage of suprise. Then Caedus does very well against him. When does Luke gain the upper hand? After he force pushes him into some tentacles. And Caedus does still fight a while longer against him.

I guess you missed the DE fight where not only was DE Sidious moving faster than the eye could see, but he was moving faster than even Leia, who as a Jedi, could follow. Add in the fact that his power was so great, storm troopers were dropping dead and that he looked like an avatar of darkness, and you have someone more powerful than anybody in the SW universe save for Luke.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Yes, Caedus hiding in the force will mean Sidious' precognition will be hindered. Let me explain. Jacen's lightsaber is moving faster than the eye can see. Meaning Palpatine will rely even more on the force to predict Jacen's moves. Only he won't be able to sense what Caedus is doing, or about to do.
Palpatine can do the same tihng and he's had WAY more practice with it than Caedusi.

Because it was stated that any force attacks the two used against one another'd be purely useless

he hasn't to my knowledge


Answered the first part earlier




Well, 'nearly' anything Caedus can do might be more accurate.
On that note, Caedus can't do half of what Palp can


Believe me, any description of Caedus there pales to Palpatine in full on fury. Luke has several issues in that fight:
1. He's still recovering from a few earlier fights, as seen when Caedus scores an injury by striking one of Luke's wounds
2. Luke does not use the force against Caedus to a great degree.




VERY doubtful. Consider: Luke was only able to match Palpatine when they both went into 'force avatar' state. Palpatine's saber abilities were so adept, no only could he move faster than an eye could see, but he was able to trace Maul's outline with it to the point that the tiniest twitch would leave Maul in pieces.



Caedus comes off WAY worse.

Fight longer than who?
Luke gets the upper hand when he has Caedus screaming in agony, injures his eye, almost caves his cheekbone in, slices into his skull...and just before Ben interfered, Luke would have ended the fight. Caedus realized said interference saved him.

Jacen broke Luke's leg, nose and shoulder. How is that getting his ass kicked?

When he got hurt way, way, way worse.

Anakin got hurt far worse than kenobi did in ROTS. Does that mean that it wasn't close?

No. However, Caedus giving a good fight doesn't offset the fact Luke was going to win from the get go.

I see. Its time to make sure you get your ass handed again seeing lightsnake already did that

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Yes, Caedus hiding in the force will mean Sidious' precognition will be hindered. Let me explain. Jacen's lightsaber is moving faster than the eye can see. Meaning Palpatine will rely even more on the force to predict Jacen's moves. Only he won't be able to sense what Caedus is doing, or about to do. Palpatine himself can move faster than the eye can see, i guess yo missed out reading dark empire or the audio book, or the source book for that matter where it stated sidious drained the entire planet of byss
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

DE Luke was a dangerous opponent was he not? Why didn't Sidious use every obscure force technique he knew against him? Was it necessary? No it wasnt, he may not even need to use it against caedus seeing he is superior to him inthe force
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Nihilus fighting Sidious is a completely different situation. Sidious would surely sense he was going to drain him, and then he would loop out of the force.
Thats because it would be necessary unlike the caedus battle where sidious can unleash anything he wishes to
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

When has Jacen used a drain? That was never the claim

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

DE Luke was a dangerous opponent was he not? Why didn't Sidious use every obscure force technique he knew against him?
Because luke studied under him thus he learnt to defend against them?

Hence why sidious wouldnt use a technique which then will be blocked by luke?

Or the fact that he wanted to test luke and decided not to go all out? Despite all this it took leia look and anakin solo to sever palpatine off the force


Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

OK, I'll name some feats of Jacen's other than ones from novels . Oh wait, he has only appeared in novels. What words of Lucas are you talking about? What words? That he stated the sith died out on endor



Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

You said Sidious could do anything Caedus can do. I was showing you how that statement is wrong. Dumbass, what part of sidious mastered every aspect of the force you dont get? He can do everything jacen does

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Other than you and Darthsith, all anyone has given for proof is "Sidious rapes Caedus no problem!!!!"
LOL and you fail to say how caedus > sidious because you just blatantly being a dumbass not backing up shit.

Its already established sidious > caedus from various sources hence why the "sidious will rape caedus!!!"


Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

And Caedus managed to wound Luke, and even hit him with some force thrown objects. And Caedus's saber moved faster than the eye could see. who oope fcuking doo. Sidious moved faster than the eye could see in DE. And so what if caedus managed to wound luke a little when in the end he got his ass kicked by luke?

I guess by your logic bol chatak is even stronger than vader seeing she managed to wound him

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Why would I say that? If that was possible Nomi would be the best around. Because i know you would seeing your a jacen fanboy
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

He maximized every technique Ill make it easier for you: mastered every technique

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

I thought this was an all out fight. Once they get close enough for Caedus to use his lightsaber he can beat Sidious. See the above few posts, this has been adressed.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Wait, I thought this was an all out fight. which sidious would clearly win

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Did you even read the book? Luke manages to hit Jacen first because he has the advantage of suprise. Then Caedus does very well against him. When does Luke gain the upper hand? After he force pushes him into some tentacles. And Caedus does still fight a while longer against him. Does very well? Jacen suffers alot more injuries than luke and nearly got his ass beaten through a saber duel.

Did luke use the force to a high degree? Did luke bothered to use emerald lightning?

Had he used the force caedus would have gotten killed

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No. However, Caedus giving a good fight doesn't offset the fact Luke was going to win from the get go.
I know, but there's a huge difference between winning and pwning somebody badly.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I know, but there's a huge difference between winning and pwning somebody badly. And caedus would have gotten pwned if luke resorted to the force

Originally posted by darthsith19
I know, but there's a huge difference between winning and pwning somebody badly.

Yes. However, you shouldn't forget Luke was only able to match Palpatine when they entered states of oneness with the dark and light.

As Palp showed in their earlier fight, he is far, FAR above Luke. even prior to their duel, he blasts Luke to the ground effortlessly

Originally posted by Manslayer
And caedus would have gotten pwned if luke resorted to the force
If that's true, then how come Luke didn't use the Force?

Come on, DS, don't ask us to account for plot induced stupidity. We see Luke effortlessly own Caedus with the Force earlier that very book.

Fine then, the plot induced stupidity version of Darth Caedus beats DE Sidious.

It's still DE Sidious DS. Jacen hasn't shown nearly enough to be considered even on par with Sidious.

"plot included stupidity" Jacen has.

I agree.

What has he done on the level of Sidious? Granted he can hide in the force and flow walk but what is actually useful in a fight?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Fine then, the plot induced stupidity version of Darth Caedus beats DE Sidious.

You're not being funny or witty here. We saw Luke effortlessly own Caedus with the force earlier the same book.

When Caedus has anything that compares to Palpatine with the force, or uses comparable saber skills, then he'll win.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine can do the same tihng and he's had WAY more practice with it than Caedusi.
But does he use it constantly in battle? Actually, the rage coming from him is usually emphasized.

OK. So what are these all powerful techniques that Sidious is going to use against Caedus.

So we agree.

Like what?

And Jacen has had more sever injuries from a more recent battle with Mara.

Because he can't while they are in the middle of a relatively even duel. Luke uses the force against him only after Caedus is spinning away to protect the eye that Luke poked out.


Exactly. When Palpatine was in the avatar state. Saying he is going to be in avatar state in this fight is like saying Jacen is going to be in avatar state in this fight. That is a big assumption.



And Sidious comes off WAY worse in his fight with Luke.

Yes Caedus loses to LotF Luke, but at least he injures him. That is more than Sidious in avatar mode can say.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
But does he use it constantly in battle? Actually, the rage coming from him is usually emphasized.
Usually because he doesn't bother. If Caedus tries it, though, Palpatine will even out the advantage.

Just about...every Dark Side force power that exists?
This is someone powerful enough to destroy a lightsaber with a flick of his finger, ravage planets and consume fleets.

Really, THP....you can't try to tell me that Palpatine's knowledge doesn't leave Caedus's in the dust?

All, unlike Luke's, had been healed and couldn't be exploited.

And earlier in the book when Luke uses the Force? Caedus is terrified and can't even move


I didn't say he would be-I'm saying he was so powerful already that Luke was only able to match him by also assuming the avatar state. In his natural form, Palpatine is quite a bit above the Caedus we see now.



To be specific, he loses a hand...and to a guy that can leapfrog through bodies, that's not really a crippling loss. He doesn't end the saber duel nearly as bad, or push Luke as hard as Palpatine has


Considering LUMIYA does better against Luke....hell, can she beat Palpatine, too?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Palpatine himself can move faster than the eye can see, i guess yo missed out reading dark empire or the audio book, or the source book
I am not denying that, read what I posted, I was explaining why his hiding would help him.

It wasn't necessary you say, and yet Sidious lost. Great logic.

You seem to know exactly what Sidious would do. Please explain these force powers Sidious will use to pwn Caedus.

So we agree.

OK, wouldn't you think that after Sidious realizes he can't win easily, he would go all out, instead of foolishly letting himself be beat.



And that proves?



Go back and read my post.

Really? What canon source says Sidious>Caedus?


Anyone can realize that being able to severely injure someone before you are defeated is better than just being defeated without even injuring your opponent.

Excellent comparison. Except for the fact that I never said that Jacen is stronger than Luke because he injures him.


Yeah, being able to severely injure Luke is doing pretty well. He lost obviously, but Sidious isn't above LotF Luke. Fyi, Luke uses the force against Jacen in their duel.

No, because they are in an extremly fast fight that does not give Luke enough time to use the force offensively, until he pokes Caedus' eye. At which point Luke does use the force. I guess Sidious sucks too, because Luke never used emerald lightning in his fight against him, and still lost. Again, Luke does use the force.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Fine then, the plot induced stupidity version of Darth Caedus beats DE Sidious.

Ummmmm...no. Jacen would be destroyed by Sidious with Force attacks during the beginning of the fight. Keep in mind Jacen had traps to his advantage, such as the Vong devices that helped him against Luke.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ummmmm...no. Jacen would be destroyed by Sidious with Force attacks during the beginning of the fight. Keep in mind Jacen had traps to his advantage, such as the Vong devices that helped him against Luke.
Actually, Luke used the Vong stuff a lot better than Caedus did. It was throwing him into that tentacle thing that gave Luke the upper hand.

You get your ass handed and you come back for more.

You are a debator wannabe and an idiot beyond belief


Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
I am not denying that, read what I posted, I was explaining why his hiding would help him. Oh i have read your posts all right, You point holds no water seeing sidious can do the same exact same thing

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

It wasn't necessary you say, and yet Sidious lost. Great logic.
Yet it took 3 force users to cut sidious off the force when he is performing his force storm technique in a situation where he couldnt do anything seeing that if he did, his storm will consume his ship and kill him in the process.

Ironic that luke couldnt kill sidious alone and was being boosted by leias battlemeditation as stated by vima.

Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

You seem to know exactly what Sidious would do. Please explain these force powers Sidious will use to pwn Caedus. Force storm? TK attacks which luke pwned caedus in? Killer force drain?

Just about every force technique sidious knows? Lightning that charred sith acolytes to bones? TK which lifted a super star destroyer?


Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns


So we agree. Did i say i agree? I said neither moron, learn to read and more importantly comprehend.

Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

OK, wouldn't you think that after Sidious realizes he can't win easily, he would go all out, instead of foolishly letting himself be beat. Like sidious would be stupid to toy with a dangerous opponent.
Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

And that proves? That jacen shouldnt even be a full fledged sith, that jacens a pretender

Once again your an idiot


Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Go back and read my post. I have young tulakhordpwns and you make no sense at all

Once again your an idiot



Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Really? What canon source says Sidious>Caedus?



Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Palpatine learned a Force Storm. It is is an attack that rips apart the fabric of existence and space-time. It can do everything from create a wormhole to move a person lightyears to ravage the surface of a planet to annihilate starfleets. Palpatine uses Force lightning with enough power to kill 100 augmented Strormtroopers effortlessly. Same lightning reduced 3 dark siders strong enough to resurrect Darth Maul to charred skeletons.

His battle with Luke in Dark Empire, according to the audio, had enough energy sent off to kill nearby Stormtroopers. He also can drain planets of their energy.

The new essential chronology: yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful sith lord in history

Once again your an idiot
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Anyone can realize that being able to severely injure someone before you are defeated is better than just being defeated without even injuring your opponent. This is relevant to beating sidious how?
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Excellent comparison. Except for the fact that I never said that Jacen is stronger than Luke because he injures him. But your uber logic is claiming that because he hurt luke in situation A means he can kill sidious in situation B.

Terrific analogy moron

Once again you an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Yeah, being able to severely injure Luke is doing pretty well. He lost obviously, but Sidious isn't above LotF Luke. Fyi, Luke uses the force against Jacen in their duel. Uh ok? Did i claim sidious is above LOTF luke?

And oh he did use teh farce against jacen huh? Funny that we dont see any of lukes uber killing moves that will annihilate jacen the moment he uses them.

Luke lifted Jacen with TK and jacen couldnt do shit about it, this alone is enough to prove luke and sidious superior to jacen in the force.

Did luke use emerald lightning against jacen? Luke didnt go all out in fear of ben falling to the dark side according to darth sexy, He is some one alot more reliable than a ****** who thinks he can debate.
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

No, because they are in an extremly fast fight that does not give Luke enough time to use the force offensively,
Doesnt mean luke cant use the force during a saber lock or when at a distance, you cant even execute a force attack even during a normal duel unless at as saber lock

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

until he pokes Caedus' eye. At which point Luke does use the force. I guess Sidious sucks too, because Luke never used emerald lightning in his fight against him, and still lost. Again, Luke does use the force. Right like luke even knew emerald lightning at the point of DE, Your an idiot tulakhordpwns. i reconmend you get off KMC and goto lucasforums.com where they need morons like you.

Luke using the force to push jacen into wires or vines doesnt equate to going all out.

Your an idiot beyond belief.
You got your ass handed yet you insist on coming back for more

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Usually because he doesn't bother. If Caedus tries it, though, Palpatine will even out the advantage.
That is silly to say that just because Caedus hides himself, Sidious will too (especially when Sidious has not really used this power often). Hiding in the force does not affect Sidious at all. He is not going to just copy everything Caedus does.


I want to know what powerful techniques that Sidious is going to use against Caedus.
Destroying a lightsaber is good, but Sidious will not be able to do that in the middle of a lightsaber duel that is moving faster than the eye can see.


You misunderstand me. I am asking what powers Sidious will be able to use against Caedus.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
That is silly to say that just because Caedus hides himself, Sidious will too (especially when Sidious has not really used this power often). Hiding in the force does not affect Sidious at all. He is not going to just copy everything Caedus does.
No. He WILL negate Caedus's advantage, though. Palpatine spent years using that power. He sees no reason to do it anymore when no other force user still alive could challenge him


Why don't we try, ohh...force lightning, draining his life, lashing out with the power of his anger, simple telekenisis, the electromagnetic torpedo...really, there are a lot.

Just think to yourself, my friend: "What are the most powerful Dark Side powers?' That'll answer the question.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
That is silly to say that just because Caedus hides himself, Sidious will too (especially when Sidious has not really used this power often). Hiding in the force does not affect Sidious at all. He is not going to just copy everything Caedus does. That would also be silly to say just because caedus draws out his saber, so will sidious.

Dumb logic

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

I want to know what powerful techniques that Sidious is going to use against Caedus.
Destroying a lightsaber is good, but Sidious will not be able to do that in the middle of a lightsaber duel that is moving faster than the eye can see.
Anything in his arsenal of force powers

Palps would manipulate Jacens stupid ass with Dun Moch before the fight even started and use every dirty trick in his disposal. His Sith knowledge is real and ancient compared to Jacens at that point. All he's learned is some philosophical B.S. from Lumiya by the time he ascended.

I highly doubt Caedus' Sith knowledge surpasses Sidious, the guy who wrote the Dark Side Compendium. He was his own Dark Side/Sith library. Sure, Jacen could flow walk and do some other random stuff. But that Aing Tii mumbo jumbo won't help in a fight.

Where are you getting that Jacen's wounds were completely healed?
And are you seriously saying that I wouldn't be possible to take advantage of an injured knee, or an injured shoulder, or any of his other injuries?


Yeah, so if Caedus just stands a fair distance away from Sidious and is not ready for a fight, then something similar will happen. But I am arguing that once they get into a lightsaber a situation more like Caedus' fight against Luke will happen.

You mean Caedus doing decently, but still losing badly? And to an opponent who will not hesitate to kill him while he's down?

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Yeah, so if Caedus just stands a fair distance away from Sidious and is not ready for a fight, then something similar will happen. But I am arguing that once they get into a lightsaber a situation more like Caedus' fight against Luke will happen.

O rly ?

Lightsaber fight ? Aside from the fact that Sidious demonstrated the ability to instantly destroy an opponents lightsaber with a mere gesture he did also floor Luke with a barrage of force lightning when Luke, with his lightsaber ignited, was pretty much in melee range. That aside from effortlessly summoning a force storm right after Luke has disarmed Sidious (by cutting his hand off).

So even if Jacen should get into melee range (which already is a big IF) Sidious would still be able to disarm him or destroy him with his superior force mastery. Unless you want to argue that Jacen is somehow stronger than Luke and Leia together - which I pretty much doubt.