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Which one is better and why?

Clones. I say this becuz unlike droids the clones hav the ability 2 think and learn

^agree.
But depends on which droids or clones.

Regular Clone vs. B2 Battle Droid
Arc Trooper vs. B3 Battle Droid

Clones, the best military, of all times, the SW Universe ever had.

I hope you actually know what a B3 Battle Droid is. You wouldn't be too quick to judge.

I meant, that the hole Clone army combined, is the best military organization ever.

The B3 is just the SBD. Better than the original, but the clones could and would still take them out.

Droids just walk forward and shoot. Clones can use cover and concealment and the terrain around them to their advantage. Clones take this.

This thread really depends on two things. How much is being put into these Droids and who the Clones are cloned from?

Clones can be an efficient army. Looking at the Jango Template Army, Clones can be innovative and inventive in the battlefield, able to overcome superior numbers through pure ingenuity. However, Clones do have their drawbacks. They are highly susceptible to poisons, unable to function through minor injuries, easily detectable through thermal vision, prone to error, and susceptible to emotional and psychological effects.

Droids are be just as, if not more efficient. One has to understand that the Droid armies we see in Star Wars are usually constructed of cheap models, made with only one advantage in mind; numerical superiority. I believe that given the proper amount of resources and effort into their creation, they could be superior to Clones. Imagine a soldier immune to the effects of emotion and psychology, able to perform at peak efficient at all times, never becomes fatigued, can fire at unheard of rates with calculated accuracy, can see the enemy regardless of any sight adherences, will unfalteringly sacrifice itself on command, and make choices within thousandths of a second. Such are the capabilities of Droids, but they're usually never given such abilities because of previously mentioned points.

I say Droids.

However, Droids can be even more efficient.

Sounds an awful lot like a Colicoid Annihilator Droid. But not necessarily Infantry Units. An absolutely wonderful unit in my opinion is the universally acclaimed... AAT. Probably my personal favorite.

Originally posted by Se7in
This thread really depends on two things. How much is being put into these Droids and who the Clones are cloned from? This is easily answered by watching the movies. You see the droids and you know that Jango Fett is the host. Those are the set parameters for this fight, as the thread maker specified no special circumstances.

Originally posted by Se7in
Clones can be an efficient army. Looking at the Jango Template Army, Clones can be innovative and inventive in the battlefield, able to overcome superior numbers through pure ingenuity. However, Clones do have their drawbacks. They are highly susceptible to poisons, unable to function through minor injuries, easily detectable through thermal vision, prone to error, and susceptible to emotional and psychological effects. Minor wounds? You believe that minor wounds ("minor" being the operative word) will stop a highly trained soldier from doing his duty? As a soldier you're trained to work through minor injuries until the objective is complete. That's how I was trained here in the US Army, so I'm sure that in the expansive and exaggerated realm of the Star Wars Universe that they would be too.

For all we know, their masks could double as some type of gas mask making them protected from certain airborne chemical agents (poisons).

Originally posted by Se7in
Droids are be just as, if not more efficient. One has to understand that the Droid armies we see in Star Wars are usually constructed of cheap models, made with only one advantage in mind; numerical superiority. I believe that given the proper amount of resources and effort into their creation, they could be superior to Clones. Imagine a soldier immune to the effects of emotion and psychology, able to perform at peak efficient at all times, never becomes fatigued, can fire at unheard of rates with calculated accuracy, can see the enemy regardless of any sight adherences, will unfalteringly sacrifice itself on command, and make choices within thousandths of a second. Such are the capabilities of Droids, but they're usually never given such abilities because of previously mentioned points. You're operating under the conditions of "what if." Unfortunately, they are made the way they are, they sucked, and then were almost outsourced by the SBD which, while better, were still inferior to the living, thinking and rational clones. They're accuracy is rather pathetic for droids, isn't it? If they were as unstoppable as you presume they could be, then the war would be over extremely quick, as the droids would just stay back and pick adversaries off with their immaculate accuracy. However, GL didn't do that so the droids at hand, suck.

Originally posted by Se7in
I say Droids.

However, Droids can be even more efficient. I have to politely disagree with you. Clones have the upper hand in almost every aspect with a few exceptions such as fatigue and (presumably) sleep. We already saw that they eat nothing, so i doubt that would be a cause for concern. The cafe in Ep2 shows them "eating" nothing...just empty plates. Don't know what that's about, but since there is no objective evidence to rebut this, I would have to say that food is not a major requirement, regardless of what logic would dictate. Star Wars is far from logical.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
This is easily answered by watching the movies. You see the droids and you know that Jango Fett is the host. Those are the set parameters for this fight, as the thread maker specified no special circumstances.

This isn't a vs. thread. It's a thread asking which are better. You completely took it out of context. He asked about two general groups, Clones and Droids, not the CIS vs. the Clone Army of the Republic. Don't make so many assumptions.



Clone still have to eat. There's many ways of poisoning, airborne pathogens were only an example.

If you lose an arm, you're dead due to blood loss and will go into shock and be unable to fight. If a droid loses its arm, it just puts the gun in its other hand and presses on. Droids are not deterred by damage, they continue until they absolutely cannot perform anymore. Humans have fatigue and a limit of tolernance to both pain and exertion. Droids don't, they can perform for days on end at peak efficiency. Can you?



This is a forum dealing with a fictional universe. Yes, I'm dealing in what if's. They were made the way they were because the CIS didn't put much thought into the Droids. When they created them, the Republic had no standing army, therefore the Droids only faced off against certain planet's own militant forces, not a galactic army. I didn't 'presume' that they were unstoppable, I said they can be if given the right amount of design, resources, and time.



Food is not a major requirement because we don't see them eating? I guess beings in Star Wars don't mate, waste, or eat, since we never see it. Great deduction there.

You took my post completely out of context. My post was about how effective Droids can be, not how terribly innefficient they were in the movies. If that were the subject, then this thread wouldn't be necessary, because the movies have shown that the Jango Clones were absolutely superior to the CIS's Droids.

Originally posted by Se7in
This isn't a vs. thread. Perhaps you should read the title of the thread.
Originally posted by Se7in
It's a thread asking which are better. No, that's just what he said in the first post.
Originally posted by Se7in
You completely took it out of context. He asked about two general groups, Clones and Droids, not the CIS vs. the Clone Army of the Republic. Don't make so many assumptions. Look at the forth post of the thread. He clearly posts "vs." twice in that post, as he did in the title. You took it out of context by bringing your "what ifs" into play.



Originally posted by Se7in
Clone still have to eat. There's many ways of poisoning, airborne pathogens were only an example. They were never seen eating, only seen eating "nothing" in the place they were created. They were genetically engineered to grow twice as fast and be more docile; in the realm of Star Wars is it really too far fetched to assume that clones be made not to require physical food as opposed to some type of intervenes nutrient supply? And i know that airborne pathogens was an example, and I addressed it...what's your point? I know there are more types than gas. However, is a clone going to accept food or drink from a droid in the middle of battle? hmm...

Originally posted by Se7in
If you lose an arm, you're dead due to blood loss and will go into shock and be unable to fight. If a droid loses its arm, it just puts the gun in its other hand and presses on. Droids are not deterred by damage, they continue until they absolutely cannot perform anymore. Humans have fatigue and a limit of tolernance to both pain and exertion. Droids don't, they can perform for days on end at peak efficiency. Can you? Well losing an arm is hardly considered a "minor" injury. That is in fact pretty severe. Also, in Star Wars, they use lasers as primary weapons, so if that were the cause for the loss of an appendage, than the would would be cauterized. no blood loss, just sever pain. And have you seen the droids in Star Wars? They show fear, angst, and pain when dying...these aren't typical Earthly robots, and once again, beyond the realm of logic.



Originally posted by Se7in
This is a forum dealing with a fictional universe. Yes, I'm dealing in what if's. They were made the way they were because the CIS didn't put much thought into the Droids. When they created them, the Republic had no standing army, therefore the Droids only faced off against certain planet's own militant forces, not a galactic army. I didn't 'presume' that they were unstoppable, I said they can be if given the right amount of design, resources, and time. When anyway you look at it, your opinions on what they could be are irrelevant. You are again taking the thread out of context. I could throw in a bunch of what ifs for the clones to make them invincible as well, but that wouldn't be following the thread now would it? For whatever reason the droids were made the way they were, they were made inferior to the clones, who have the ability of thought, logic and reasoning, and problem solving skills.



Originally posted by Se7in
Food is not a major requirement because we don't see them eating? I guess beings in Star Wars don't mate, waste, or eat, since we never see it. Great deduction there. Never seen anyone eat huh? We've seen things eat in every episode...what are you watching? And as i said before...ya know what, just read above, I've already addressed this.

Originally posted by Se7in
You took my post completely out of context. My post was about how effective Droids can be, not how terribly innefficient they were in the movies. If that were the subject, then this thread wouldn't be necessary, because the movies have shown that the Jango Clones were absolutely superior to the CIS's Droids. Well that's exactly what he asked, and formed it as a "vs." thread. You took the liberty of answering something that was never asked. And it's not unnecessary because he asked something that the movie answered; perhaps he wanted to find out other people's opinions on the matter since he's a junior member. Its called an icebreaker.

Thread maker: Did you intend this to be a vs. thread or just a comparison thread?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Perhaps you should read the title of the thread.
No, that's just what he said in the first post.
Look at the forth post of the thread. He clearly posts "vs." twice in that post, as he did in the title. You took it out of context by bringing your "what ifs" into play.


Exactly. That's what the creator of this topic said in the first post. Therefore, you either post catering to his exact specifications or don't post at all and make your own topic. He didn't mention a single specific droid or clone. There's numerous different clones. Clones of Sidious, Jango's Clones, etc. and there's numerous different droids such as the CIS, Hunter Killers, and Utility Droids. He asked which is better, not who would win between the CIS and Republic Clone Army. Why the Hell would he ask about the victor of an event that already happened? Common sense says he isn't. You should use yours.



Droids don't have to give Clones food on the battlefield. Now you're just putting up a veil of naivety. Droids could simply contaminate food and water supplies. Use your head and stop making it seem like you have no recollection basic battlefield espionage tactics. You should know, since you claim to be in the military.



So major pain won't deter a human's ability to function? Once again, this veil of naivety is becoming easily recognized from you. Yes the Droids of the CIS show fear, because they were given self-preservation programming. My post catered to the potential of Droids, not which were better based on en event which already proved the outcome of such a debate.



That was the point of the thread. Which is better and why. You could argue all you want for why Droids could be superior. That's the purpose of debating. Instead, you bring up an event, in which the superiority of two different individual units was already determined in the Clones favor. Unless you feel like debating who is better at an event in which we know the victor, you've completely misunderstood this thread.



I was implying sarcasm in what I said in that post. Read it again and realize if it makes sense.



No, you took that liberty. He NEVER once mentioned neither the CIS nor the Jango Clones specifically as if they were the only soldiers to be considered, yet you went out on a random tangent by bringing them both up as if they were the subject of this thread.

Originally posted by Se7in
Exactly. That's what the creator of this topic said in the first post. Therefore, you either post catering to his exact specifications or don't post at all and make your own topic. He didn't mention a single specific droid or clone.
Originally posted by hereatlast
Regular Clone vs. B2 Battle Droid
Arc Trooper vs. B3 Battle Droid He never mentioned specific clones or droids huh? Perhaps instead of trying to show how incredibly smart you are, you should take some time and learn to read and comprehend that information.


Originally posted by Se7in
There's numerous different clones. Clones of Sidious, Jango's Clones, etc. and there's numerous different droids such as the CIS, Hunter Killers, and Utility Droids. He asked which is better, not who would win between the CIS and Republic Clone Army. Why the Hell would he ask about the victor of an event that already happened? Common sense says he isn't. You should use yours. Who were the major clones of the Star Wars saga? The Clone Army - hence the Clone Wars, so logic dictates, or at least it should, that if "clones" are mentioned, that is who are being referred to. If it were Sidious' clones, than there would be no point to the thread cause the answer would be obvious. And the best doesn't always win. Case in point, Anakin lost to OB1, when Anakin is in fact the more powerful. Dooku lost to Anakin, same thing...so its not uncommon to ask who would win as opposed to who is better. Circumstances play significant roles in the outcome of battles.



Originally posted by Se7in
Droids don't have to give Clones food on the battlefield. Now you're just putting up a veil of naivety. Droids could simply contaminate food and water supplies. Use your head and stop making it seem like you have no recollection basic battlefield espionage tactics. You should know, since you claim to be in the military. Right, because food and water supplies aren't guarded and are taken right to the front lines. Hence another reason why physical food wouldn't be the best option for nourishing clones. And yes, I was in the Army, and I know how well supplies are protected. Use my head? Swing that comment around and then get back to me.



Originally posted by Se7in
So major pain won't deter a human's ability to function? Once again, this veil of naivety is becoming easily recognized from you. Yes the Droids of the CIS show fear, because they were given self-preservation programming. My post catered to the potential of Droids, not which were better based on en event which already proved the outcome of such a debate.
That's not my point. You said "minor injuries," and then linked that to loss of an appendage...you're trying a red herring now. You made a stupid comment and was called out for it, so now you're trying to point the attention elsewhere. That might work with other people, but not me. So can you prove that they were given self-preservation programming? Perhaps its just Lucas' cookey way of giving droids personality. You post could cater to the potential of droids, however that's not the topic, now is it? What'd you say before, talk about the thread or create your own? Hmmm..


Originally posted by Se7in
That was the point of the thread. Which is better and why. You could argue all you want for why Droids could be superior. That's the purpose of debating. Instead, you bring up an event, in which the superiority of two different individual units was already determined in the Clones favor. Unless you feel like debating who is better at an event in which we know the victor, you've completely misunderstood this thread.
No, I believe you have. Show me where he says "discuss the potential of each group and explain why it would aide in the superiority over the other." He doesn't say that...at all...in anyway. And he posted more than once...read more, talk less.



Originally posted by Se7in
I was implying sarcasm in what I said in that post. Read it again and realize if it makes sense.
I understand what you're doing, it just wasn't funny.



Originally posted by Se7in
No, you took that liberty. He NEVER once mentioned neither the CIS nor the Jango Clones specifically as if they were the only soldiers to be considered, yet you went out on a random tangent by bringing them both up as if they were the subject of this thread.
Fourth post...read it. Logic dictates that as the two key players in both of the respective roles (clones and droids), that is who/what he was referring to.

there is basically two schools of thought here. first off it says that clones are better than droids in AOTC. but don't you find it ironic that the empire's current goal before the death star 2 and the emperor blew up they were working towards getting rid of storm troops to replace with with the dark trooper(phase 1, 2, and 3, and if you dont know what they are they're droids)?

see i find it ironic because the clones were made to fight droids because they were better but then 25 years later they were starting to make droids to replace the people because they(the droids) were better.

Se7in: Exactly. That's what the creator of this topic said in the first post. Therefore, you either post catering to his exact specifications or don't post at all and make your own topic. He didn't mention a single specific droid or clone.

It's clear to anyone who actually does know how to read that he was speaking in respect to the OP when he says that the TC doesn't once mention a specific clone or droid, so perhaps you should take your own advise.

Either way, it's clear that Hereatlast's second post wasn't actually an elaboration onto his original post, but a change in the stance specifically for vader11's post. The original post quite clearly asks which of the two is better in general, and the 'vs.' in the topic title doesn't automatically mean that there is going to be a battle between specific opponents. I'm sorry, but in this context, when Hereatlast asks which of the two is better and why without going into specifics, you would generally treat the topic like how Se7in did.



So I guess if someone made a similar topic with 'Jedi' in it rather than 'Clones,' we should automatically assume that the TC is referring to Yoda, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, Qui-Gon Jinn, and Anakin and Luke Skywalker then despite the lack of specifics in the OP, yeah, simply because they're the major jedi featured in the saga?



There's also a number of other 'Clones' featured in the stories, most notably the Morgukai Clone Army. Se7in's point as far as I can tell is that there is more than one form of clone out there, and that you shouldn't automatically assume that it's the form that you would rather argue for.

I'll let Se7in handle the rest, but really, being such a hostile debater and at the same time not really having a point to begin with is a really silly move on your part.

Originally posted by Proteus
It's clear to anyone who actually does know how to read that he was speaking in respect to the OP when he says that the TC doesn't once mention a specific clone or droid, so perhaps you should take your own advise. Take my own advise? Learn how to properly spell and speak then I'll take your advice. Thanks though.

Originally posted by Proteus
Either way, it's clear that Hereatlast's second post wasn't actually an elaboration onto his original post, but a change in the stance specifically for vader11's post. The original post quite clearly asks which of the two is better in general, and the 'vs.' in the topic title doesn't automatically mean that there is going to be a battle between specific opponents. I'm sorry, but in this context, when Hereatlast asks which of the two is better and why without going into specifics, you would generally treat the topic like how Se7in did.
How is it so clear that it wasn't an elaboration? Vader11 answered and said it depended on what type of both factions and then he specified. Seems pretty cut and dry. And the title dictates the subject matter for the thread. Yes, "vs." could be used in a comparison, but he never once said "add in all the 'what ifs' you want," so just as you are trying to suggest that I made an assumption, so did se7in. So when someone asks which group is better, then everyone takes it as saying what they could like had more thought been put into them? No sorry...don't think so.


Originally posted by Proteus
So I guess if someone made a similar topic with 'Jedi' in it rather than 'Clones,' we should automatically assume that the TC is referring to Yoda, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, Qui-Gon Jinn, and Anakin and Luke Skywalker then despite the lack of specifics in the OP, yeah, simply because they're the major jedi featured in the saga? In the saga, the clone army is the primary group associated with "clones," more so than Sidious' clones or any others; whereas "Jedi" fill every move in the saga. And yes, If someone were to inquire about the PT Jedi, i would venture that most people would use the ones you mentioned (save for Luke) with the addition of few others, being as they are the primary jedi of that time, as we don't know a great deal about no-name, unknown jedi...



Originally posted by Proteus
There's also a number of other 'Clones' featured in the stories, most notably the Morgukai Clone Army. Se7in's point as far as I can tell is that there is more than one form of clone out there, and that you shouldn't automatically assume that it's the form that you would rather argue for.
Despite the fact that there may be more than one type of clone out there, the Clone Army, as I've said, is the most notable, therefore I'm not wrong for assuming he meant them (as he did specify in his second post).

Originally posted by Proteus
I'll let Se7in handle the rest, but really, being such a hostile debater and at the same time not really having a point to begin with is a really silly move on your part.

Handle the rest? Neither of you have "handled" anything yet. He stated his opinion based on advancing the technology of the droids, something that was not specified in the first or second post of the TC. He asked "Which one is better?" meaning as is, not what they could be.

And I'm hardly being hostile, and I have a point. The only silly move I see, is you opening your mouth and not saying anything. However, your...opinion...has been duly noted.

Yeah, you're an idiot.

OP: Which one is better.

That is in no way asking for a winner in any speculative battle. It's asking for an opinion on their attributes. I'm sorry, but you're clearly dumb. Also, I find it funny how you jump on my spelling error, when at least I wasn't preaching anyone about it, however you were doing that with his reading ability, and yet show flaws in your own at the exact same time.

Anyways, I really don't feel obligated to prove the fact that you're an idiot, as this post says it all:



^ What a dumbass.

So yeah, we've established that you're dumb. Bye now dumbo.

Originally posted by Proteus
Yeah, you're an idiot. Says the forum fool.

Originally posted by Proteus
OP: Which one is better. Wow, you got the question right but couldn't even use the proper punctuation. You're a double threat aren't you?

Originally posted by Proteus
That is in no way asking for a winner in any speculative battle.Nor is it asking what they could be.

Originally posted by Proteus
It's asking for an opinion on their attributes.
That exist as we see them, not what some random person would want them to be. Understand?

Originally posted by Proteus
I'm sorry, but you're clearly dumb. Also, I find it funny how you jump on my spelling error, when at least I wasn't preaching anyone about it, however you were doing that with his reading ability, and yet show flaws in your own at the exact same time. Not really. You of all people are saying that other people are dumb when you can't even use the proper word when trying to make a point. He was incorrect and I stated that politely, then he wanted to keep going, then you wanted to throw your two unwanted cents in. Only thing that I'm doing that can be considered dumb is wasting my time trying to explain myself to someone with a fifth grade education level. So until you have something useful to say or contribute, just leave the keyboard alone. I know all those buttons can be confusing and get tricky.

Originally posted by Proteus
Anyways, I really don't feel obligated to prove the fact that you're an idiot, as this post says it all:
Which you conveniently left out my latter statements on the topic, but that's fine. Other people around here know know to scroll and read.

Originally posted by Proteus
^ What a dumbass.

So yeah, we've established that you're dumb. Bye now dumbo. I'm "dumb." Oh I'm so hurt and I feel so stupid being put in my place by a 15 year old living in his mom's basement. What will i ever do? Oh yea, your opinion means jack shit to me or anyone else here, so it doesn't matter what garbage you spill. Dumbo, LOL, that's classic! I'd use that if I wasn't over the age of 6.

Originally posted by Proteus
Yeah, you're an idiot.

OP: Which one is better.

That is in no way asking for a winner in any speculative battle. It's asking for an opinion on their attributes. I'm sorry, but you're clearly dumb.

His (hereatlast's) second post is indicative that he was referring to the droid constructs of the Prequel Trilogy as opposed to some type of unknown model, made up from Se7in's mind (which was apparent, in my eyes, to begin with).

There would be absolutely no point in comparing a droid utilizing its peak possibilities to a clone trooper or any other type of soldier, as it's clear the living being would severely lack in comparison. The explanation for which wouldn't need to go longer than a sentence at best.

"Droids don't need to eat, sleep, fight forever, could be engineered to be strategical geniuses, more powerful weapons, etc."

It would make for a rather dull thread. Either way, to call Subjekt "dumb" based on your interpretation of the TC's post is rather dumb, especially when the TC clarified which specific type of droids and clones to compare (which is what we should adhere to, since we didn't make the thread).

Edit:

Albeit, Subjekt did take Se7in's post out of context, as he (Se7in) made it explicitly clear he was arguing the possibilities of the droids. Nonetheless, what I said still stands.

And I understood and acknowledged that, I just went on to say that's not what the thread was about, then it escalated from there. However, I've said my piece and I'm done now. I answered the question that was asked. But again, i DO see where Se7in was coming from, I just don't think it was what he asked. (not directed at Advent - general statements.)

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
And I understood and acknowledged that, I just went on to say that's not what the thread was about, then it escalated from there. However, I've said my piece and I'm done now. I answered the question that was asked. But again, i DO see where Se7in was coming from, I just don't think it was what he asked. (not directed at Advent - general statements.)

No Subjekt. You were right, plain and simple. I didn't read the post and therefore took this post completely out of context.

clones is best, if you destroy the ships that is controlling those droids a whole army will shut down like what happen in phantom menace.

that wasn't really the point of the thread. it was more about which is technically better in battle.

i agree with this. True that clones have the ability to think as a sentient being. However Droids like said above....do NOT sleep. Nor do they EVER disobey order do to the fact that they dont have emotions to question judgement. Droids can programmed for the same manuvers that clones train to do. Not to forget that batallions of droids can be produced in less time to grow a number of clones. The training process is instant for a droid. Clones CAN have that knowledge implanted but from what we have seen...they do training.

HOWEVER to go against the droids....they do have a severe weakness......Signal Loss from the main ship.

SO lets see....
Droids- Overwelming numbers
Droids- Completely Loyal with no emotions getting in the way
Droids- No Sleep, No need for Stamina
Droids- Maintanence needed regularly(a bad for droids)


They way i see it.....an infantry against infantry only battle droids should always win.... though put in other styles of battles....that can change the tide to clones

Originally posted by Lowish
i agree with this. True that clones have the ability to think as a sentient being. However Droids like said above....do NOT sleep. Nor do they EVER disobey order do to the fact that they dont have emotions to question judgement. Droids can programmed for the same manuvers that clones train to do. Not to forget that batallions of droids can be produced in less time to grow a number of clones. The training process is instant for a droid. Clones CAN have that knowledge implanted but from what we have seen...they do training.

HOWEVER to go against the droids....they do have a severe weakness......Signal Loss from the main ship.

SO lets see....
Droids- Overwelming numbers
Droids- Completely Loyal with no emotions getting in the way
Droids- No Sleep, No need for Stamina
Droids- Maintanence needed regularly(a bad for droids)


They way i see it.....an infantry against infantry only battle droids should always win.... though put in other styles of battles....that can change the tide to clones

Learn to read. Stop bringing up old threads where a definitive answer has been agreed upon.