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AM at his peak. Who wins?

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/AM_zpse6a9de1e.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SM_zpsfaafbe4b.jpg

Anti-monitor wins.

Anti monitor. Mandrakk didn't show that much of feats, so CA superman beating him isn't going to give him the win here. besides, CA superman was hurt by the heat of ten billion suns, which isn't impressive at all compared to what AM can do to him.

Superman wins. If we follow what the superman beyond comic states, the armor is powered by the greatest story in comics. Which it turns out to be Superman's. Not to mention, Mandrakk and Superman were on a level that the universe was like what we view a globe to be. If I can recall correctly, Mandrakks nanotech was huge when they entered the multivere.

Superman.

Superman.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman wins. If we follow what the superman beyond comic states, the armor is powered by the greatest story in comics. Which it turns out to be Superman's. Not to mention, Mandrakk and Superman were on a level that the universe was like what we view a globe to be. If I can recall correctly, Mandrakks nanotech was huge when they entered the multivere.

funny, considering how the armor got broken beyond repair in the end.

Originally posted by operator616
funny, considering how the armor got broken beyond repair in the end. was it needed after it defeated Mandrakk? The Arbor was made because the monitors believed that the greatest story in comics was that of Kal El. The armor was powered by this belief, in order to defeat a being that pretty much no one in dcu can reach let alone defeat.

CA Superman the armor is meant to win this kind of fight

Originally posted by xJLxKing
was it needed after it defeated Mandrakk? The Arbor was made because the monitors believed that the greatest story in comics was that of Kal El. The armor was powered by this belief, in order to defeat a being that pretty much no one in dcu can reach let alone defeat.

mandrakk is essentially featless, his best feat is defeating a weakened spectre (due to what cain did to him) and the radiant off panel. there are several beings in DC who could defeat him based on feats.

^ That was not the original Mandrakk the Cosmic Armor fought.

Originally posted by operator616
mandrakk is essentially featless, his best feat is defeating a weakened spectre (due to what cain did to him) and the radiant off panel. there are several beings in DC who could defeat him based on feats. there are two different Mandrakk. The original, who sealed himself, but feed on the bleed for ever(blood of the supreme being), and the one who fought Spectre in fc7. That one never fed on the bleed, but only transformed recently.

Superman.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
there are two different Mandrakk. The original, who sealed himself, but feed on the bleed for ever(blood of the supreme being), and the one who fought Spectre in fc7. That one never fed on the bleed, but only transformed recently.

right, forgot about that, but the second mandrakk didn't fight the spectre, it happened off panel (who was also weakened). First Mandrakk, except for statements doesn't have any feats to suggest that he can take AM at his prime.

Originally posted by operator616
right, forgot about that, but the second mandrakk didn't fight the spectre, it happened off panel (who was also weakened). First Mandrakk, except for statements doesn't have any feats to suggest that he can take AM at his prime. the Spectre wasn't weakened. He just could not use his powers because the universe can't be judged due to the fact that the ALE took away free will. That however had nothing to do with why Spectre and the others lost. Having it happened off panel means what exactly? Mandrakk represented evil in stories, which is why he was the last villain in FC
Featless? Some what, but keep in mind, the monitors had tech that was destroying multivere without them doing anything. This tech was just nano, too small for them too see, yet in the multicerse, it was bigger than cities. Sure enough, their tech froze entire universes. This wasn't even their powers just tech. Not to mention, they have access to the bleed which only they can use, something which makes them un-killable. Mandrakk also had enough statement to judge his power level. Would you say the presence was weaker then galactus because of no feats

Superman.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
the Spectre wasn't weakened. He just could not use his powers because the universe can't be judged due to the fact that the ALE took away free will. That however had nothing to do with why Spectre and the others lost. Having it happened off panel means what exactly? Mandrakk represented evil in stories, which is why he was the last villain in FC
Featless? Some what, but keep in mind, the monitors had tech that was destroying multivere without them doing anything. This tech was just nano, too small for them too see, yet in the multicerse, it was bigger than cities. Sure enough, their tech froze entire universes. This wasn't even their powers just tech. Not to mention, they have access to the bleed which only they can use, something which makes them un-killable. Mandrakk also had enough statement to judge his power level. Would you say the presence was weaker then galactus because of no feats
But the Pre-crisis monitors isnt use tech to destroy universe,post-crisis monitors i think they are was different,in the pre-crisis only have two monitors,One is the incarnation is the matter of the universe，One is the embodiment of the antimatter universe

Originally posted by a88378438
But the Pre-crisis monitors isnt use tech to destroy universe,post-crisis monitors i think they are was different,in the pre-crisis only have two monitors,One is the incarnation is the matter of the universe，One is the embodiment of the antimatter universe

Technically, there was always just one. What Luthor was messing with in IC when he create the 52FC kinda structured or retconned what the monitors were.
The monitor(from COIE) was cloned into 52 of them. These monitors started to take shape, ideas..etc based on the universe they were in. But in FC Grant Morrison pretty much retcons the entire thing. He clearly stated in an interview that monitors were angels, the Primal Monitor was "God". Mandrakk represented the Evil that prevails at the end, it is outside of the DCU, which is why it feeds on it till there is nothing left.

This is what he said in interview in IGn about Mandrakk

"And then Mandrakk is actually the ultimate evil where there's no hope. The grave. He's entropy, I suppose. No matter how hard you try, this entity will consume the universe and you'll be sucked into the gaping, bulging Black Hole of Mandrakk. There are different kinds of evil, from existential evil to personal evil or stupid evil or whatever."

To say the very least, he is the end of comics, when people just stop reading it. I guess you can say that is how I see it. Mandrakk represented that. Superman on the other hand was powering the cosmic armor. It represented the story that defines comic, that is the greatest of them all. Zillo pretty much said stated that as well.

Feat-less or not, Mandrakk is much like death. It doesn't need feats for you to understand it's power, or idea. Going through SB1-2, you can noticed the tech they have, the power they wield just from staying in the monitor world. These guys, froze an entire multiverse, while it was being broken down by DS and the other gods just so Superman can come and fight the real enemy. Mandrakk would have eaten and destroyed DCU had that not happen. How? I don't know and I don't care. GM pretty much wanted you to know that's what would have happened without Superman

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Technically, there was always just one. What Luthor was messing with in IC when he create the 52FC kinda structured or retconned what the monitors were.
The monitor(from COIE) was cloned into 52 of them. These monitors started to take shape, ideas..etc based on the universe they were in. But in FC Grant Morrison pretty much retcons the entire thing. He clearly stated in an interview that monitors were angels, the Primal Monitor was "God". Mandrakk represented the Evil that prevails at the end, it is outside of the DCU, which is why it feeds on it till there is nothing left.

This is what he said in interview in IGn about Mandrakk

"And then Mandrakk is actually the ultimate evil where there's no hope. The grave. He's entropy, I suppose. No matter how hard you try, this entity will consume the universe and you'll be sucked into the gaping, bulging Black Hole of Mandrakk. There are different kinds of evil, from existential evil to personal evil or stupid evil or whatever."

To say the very least, he is the end of comics, when people just stop reading it. I guess you can say that is how I see it. Mandrakk represented that. Superman on the other hand was powering the cosmic armor. It represented the story that defines comic, that is the greatest of them all. Zillo pretty much said stated that as well.

Feat-less or not, Mandrakk is much like death. It doesn't need feats for you to understand it's power, or idea. Going through SB1-2, you can noticed the tech they have, the power they wield just from staying in the monitor world. These guys, froze an entire multiverse, while it was being broken down by DS and the other gods just so Superman can come and fight the real enemy. Mandrakk would have eaten and destroyed DCU had that not happen. How? I don't know and I don't care. GM pretty much wanted you to know that's what would have happened without Superman

When did the Monitors freeze the Multiverse? Scans?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Technically, there was always just one. What Luthor was messing with in IC when he create the 52FC kinda structured or retconned what the monitors were.
The monitor(from COIE) was cloned into 52 of them. These monitors started to take shape, ideas..etc based on the universe they were in. But in FC Grant Morrison pretty much retcons the entire thing. He clearly stated in an interview that monitors were angels, the Primal Monitor was "God". Mandrakk represented the Evil that prevails at the end, it is outside of the DCU, which is why it feeds on it till there is nothing left.

This is what he said in interview in IGn about Mandrakk

"And then Mandrakk is actually the ultimate evil where there's no hope. The grave. He's entropy, I suppose. No matter how hard you try, this entity will consume the universe and you'll be sucked into the gaping, bulging Black Hole of Mandrakk. There are different kinds of evil, from existential evil to personal evil or stupid evil or whatever."

To say the very least, he is the end of comics, when people just stop reading it. I guess you can say that is how I see it. Mandrakk represented that. Superman on the other hand was powering the cosmic armor. It represented the story that defines comic, that is the greatest of them all. Zillo pretty much said stated that as well.

Feat-less or not, Mandrakk is much like death. It doesn't need feats for you to understand it's power, or idea. Going through SB1-2, you can noticed the tech they have, the power they wield just from staying in the monitor world. These guys, froze an entire multiverse, while it was being broken down by DS and the other gods just so Superman can come and fight the real enemy. Mandrakk would have eaten and destroyed DCU had that not happen. How? I don't know and I don't care. GM pretty much wanted you to know that's what would have happened without Superman
I mean,the Pre-crisis and Post-crisis was differnet because the PC monitor isnt use any tech to destroy universe,the Grant Morrison change everything,the monitor not a powerful cosmic being,just some High-tech race,they are power isnt universe level anymore,the pre-crisis and post-crisis is absolutely different

Originally posted by Golgo13
When did the Monitors freeze the Multiverse? Scans? I'll try and post the scans tomorrow. It's in Superman beyond. Zillo freezes the entire multiverse so the various versions of Supermen can come fight Mandrakk. They all had a crisis going on like DS falling etc and could not leave. Superman also was using his powers to keep Lois alive. So Zillo pretty much freezes everything, which superman noticee and states.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I'll try and post the scans tomorrow. It's in Superman beyond. Zillo freezes the entire multiverse so the various versions of Supermen can come fight Mandrakk. They all had a crisis going on like DS falling etc and could not leave. Superman also was using his powers to keep Lois alive. So Zillo pretty much freezes everything, which superman noticee and states.
this even not a feats...just high tech

Originally posted by a88378438
this even not a feats...just high tech Technology is part of theirpart ass much as ironman is Tony's powers. Evidently, it's part of their feats so o don't understand what you are saying here. Should we disclaim brainiac or any other character and make them seem powerless and featless because they use technology?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
the Spectre wasn't weakened. He just could not use his powers because the universe can't be judged due to the fact that the ALE took away free will. That however had nothing to do with why Spectre and the others lost. Having it happened off panel means what exactly? Mandrakk represented evil in stories, which is why he was the last villain in FC
Featless? Some what, but keep in mind, the monitors had tech that was destroying multivere without them doing anything. This tech was just nano, too small for them too see, yet in the multicerse, it was bigger than cities. Sure enough, their tech froze entire universes. This wasn't even their powers just tech. Not to mention, they have access to the bleed which only they can use, something which makes them un-killable. Mandrakk also had enough statement to judge his power level. Would you say the presence was weaker then galactus because of no feats

no, savage hurt him pretty bad, not to mention spectre didn't seem that uber in final crisis revelations, not being able to judge even libra.
having it off panel means we don't really know exactly how it happened.
tech froze universes? im not sure i remember that.
Mandrakk was called the ultimate threat to the multiverse, but you also have to keep in mind, the FC multiverse was consisted of 52 universes not infinite universes which anti monitor destroyed, which makes anti monitor's feat, quite literally, infinitely more impressive.


Presence created michael and lucifer, he gave synnar the power to create the multiverse, when spectre was shown the nature of god he became one with the multiverse, when asmodel tried to conquer the presence, at the end of his journey he understood that it can't be done and that the presence resides everywhere and is everything even hell itself.

Originally posted by operator616
no, savage hurt him pretty bad, not to mention spectre didn't seem that uber in final crisis revelations, not being able to judge even libra.
having it off panel means we don't really know exactly how it happened.
tech froze universes? im not sure i remember that.
Mandrakk was called the ultimate threat to the multiverse, but you also have to keep in mind, the FC multiverse was consisted of 52 universes not infinite universes which anti monitor destroyed, which makes anti monitor's feat, quite literally, infinitely more impressive.


Presence created michael and lucifer, he gave synnar the power to create the multiverse, when spectre was shown the nature of god he became one with the multiverse, when asmodel tried to conquer the presence, at the end of his journey he understood that it can't be done and that the presence resides everywhere and is everything even hell itself.
Like I said, Spectre could not do anything to judge anyone in FC. He had gotten his powers back after the ALE was stopped. Vandal had the spear of destiny, and he was basically Cain, already judged by God. Libra stated what his purpose was in FC1-3.

As far as what you posted, I've already explained it in the other posted, I even posted what morrison himself said. You just didn't reading the other posts

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Like I said, Spectre could not do anything to judge anyone in FC. He had gotten his powers back after the ALE was stopped. Vandal had the spear of destiny, and he was basically Cain, already judged by God. Libra stated what his purpose was in FC1-3.

As far as what you posted, I've already explained it in the other posted, I even posted what morrison himself said. You just didn't reading the other posts

i know that savage had the spear of destiny, my point wasn't how he did it but rather the outcome of the event, which left spectre weakened.

just read your posts, and my argument still stands that AM's feat is much more impressive than mandrakk's "statements".

I do recall an interview of GM stating that primal monitor is God (though that was a long time ago) so i vaguely remember it (i'll check it up), but i also remember GM stating that PM is the white paper on which the comics are drawn. Anyway, i dont see how PM is relevant to our discussion.

just checked it, apparently, they are both at the same time, morrison stated that primal/over monitor is the page in which the story is drawn, and he thought of it as God (i'll link you to the interview if you ask for it)

Originally posted by operator616
just checked it, apparently, they are both at the same time, morrison stated that primal/over monitor is the page in which the story is drawn, and he thought of it as God (i'll link you to the interview if you ask for it) you don't need to, I know that interview. Keep reading it, read about what he says about monitors, mandrakk and superman beyond in general.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Technology is part of theirpart ass much as ironman is Tony's powers. Evidently, it's part of their feats so o don't understand what you are saying here. Should we disclaim brainiac or any other character and make them seem powerless and featless because they use technology?
I;m just say the pre-crisis monitor isnt use technology,the post-crisis it is,they are different
not in the a battle

Originally posted by a88378438
I mean,the Pre-crisis and Post-crisis was differnet because the PC monitor isnt use any tech to destroy universe,the Grant Morrison change everything,the monitor not a powerful cosmic being,just some High-tech race,they are power isnt universe level anymore,the pre-crisis and post-crisis is absolutely different
You might consider reading the comics rather than repeating secondhand crap you've read.

@ Galan, do you have the scans of the Monitors freezing the entire Multiverse? Sounds pretty uber.

WOW son, here lol. I had to go and look for my imageshack password just for you

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5966/supermanbeyond01page007.jpg

Originally posted by Cogito
You might consider reading the comics rather than repeating secondhand crap you've read.
what?

This should easily go to CA Supes based on scale. He existed in an overworld where the whole multiverse was just a little bottle.

As big/powerful as AM is, he would just be a speck to CA Supes.

Plus, the Cosmic Armor was essentially just a physical manifestation of Superman's "plot armor" that allows him to pull off whatever needs pulling.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
This should easily go to CA Supes based on scale. He existed in an overworld where the whole multiverse was just a little bottle.

As big/powerful as AM is, he would just be a speck to CA Supes.

Plus, the Cosmic Armor was essentially just a physical manifestation of Superman's "plot armor" that allows him to pull off whatever needs pulling. pretty much, it was even stated that the armor adapts to any threat.

Originally posted by Golgo13
@ Galan, do you have the scans of the Monitors freezing the entire Multiverse? Sounds pretty uber. All the events from Superman Beyond took place in between one of Lois' heartbeats.

However, time could not have been stopped on a multiversal scale, because time on earths 6, 13, 17 and 20(just that we know of) was still proceeding normally:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15893884/Superman_Beyond_01_Page_013.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15893887/Superman_Beyond_01_Page_014.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15893888/Superman_Beyond_01_Page_016.jpg.html

COIE AM

Supra cause Morrison was on the sauce

Am wins.

^You've spoken.

Since quan hates both these characters with an unrivaled passion, his opinion stands above the rest in this thread.

Originally posted by guy222
Supra cause Morrison was on the sauce

I don't think it was the sauce he was on, if you know what I mean.