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I was wondering if religious beliefs have evolved in a negative or positive way.

People used to worship inanimate things like trees, rocks etc

Then they eventually realized it was rather silly so they decided to worship the sun, fire and other more impressive things.

Now that people know more about these things, therefore removing the awe effect, people are worshiping something they cannot even see.

Is this progress?

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I was wondering if religious beliefs have evolved in a negative or positive way.

People used to worship inanimate things like trees, rocks etc

Then they eventually realized it was rather silly so they decided to worship the sun, fire and other more impressive things.

Now that people know more about these things, therefore removing the awe effect, people are worshiping something they cannot even see.

Is this progress?

Trading one delusion for another delusion is not progress.

So its a built in advantage to have some sort of belief. Interesting

Originally posted by Bicnarok
So its a built in advantage to have some sort of belief. Interesting

That is what I believe.

However, actively not believing in a god is also a belief and can give the same benefits as believing is a god.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
why do people need something to worship

Because we die.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Religion gives people an evolutionary advantage. It gives them control over their lives (even if it is a false control). This control allows them to have less stress and a better life, and this better life allows them to survive better. I educate myself to know which is the best method of life, and go by it.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
So its a built in advantage to have some sort of belief. Interesting

Let me split hairs for a moment:

The problem here is that, for the human mind, all things we know are the same "thing". So be it belief or rational thought, our memories are the same. So, to say "there is a built in advantage to belief" is a little bit of a misnomer.

However, as this pertains to religion, there are types of belief that may enable us to have a higher survival rate. For instance, believing that snakes are poisonous, without personally testing every snake you see, can be a survival advantage, and in fact, there is research that shows a fear of snakes or spiders may have a genetic root.

When it comes to religion, I think it is an exascerbation of a much more fundamental function of our brains. For instance, if I hear something fall behind me, I understand that there must have been a cause to that action. Now, lets go back millions of years to the first proto-mammals (it was probably even earlier than this, but whatever). You have an animal running through the woods. It hears something behind it. There are many possible behaviours, but lets just say it has the option of assuming there is a creature making that sound, or investigating the nature of the sound. Clearly, the animal that assumes the noise was made by a predator will have the advantage, since it will be eaten less. This is really crude, but its sort of how I see most things about how and why we believe; its based off ancient systems of survival of the fittest. We have not been blessed with a brain any more powerful than it absolutly needed to be.

Originally posted by inimalist
Let me split hairs for a moment:

The problem here is that, for the human mind, all things we know are the same "thing". So be it belief or rational thought, our memories are the same. So, to say "there is a built in advantage to belief" is a little bit of a misnomer.

However, as this pertains to religion, there are types of belief that may enable us to have a higher survival rate. For instance, believing that snakes are poisonous, without personally testing every snake you see, can be a survival advantage, and in fact, there is research that shows a fear of snakes or spiders may have a genetic root.

When it comes to religion, I think it is an exascerbation of a much more fundamental function of our brains. For instance, if I hear something fall behind me, I understand that there must have been a cause to that action. Now, lets go back millions of years to the first proto-mammals (it was probably even earlier than this, but whatever). You have an animal running through the woods. It hears something behind it. There are many possible behaviours, but lets just say it has the option of assuming there is a creature making that sound, or investigating the nature of the sound. Clearly, the animal that assumes the noise was made by a predator will have the advantage, since it will be eaten less. This is really crude, but its sort of how I see most things about how and why we believe; its based off ancient systems of survival of the fittest. We have not been blessed with a brain any more powerful than it absolutly needed to be.

But our brains are far more powerful then we need. How do you account for that?

as far as we know, or so we believe

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But our brains are far more powerful then we need. How do you account for that?

??

such as?

Originally posted by inimalist
??

such as?

All we need is to be able to get food and stay warm, but we have gone to the moon and invented calculus.

going to the moon is the same principle as gorillas using a long stick to test water depth, we have writing and thousands of years of such experimenting.

Originally posted by inimalist
going to the moon is the same principle as gorillas using a long stick to test water depth, we have writing and thousands of years of such experimenting.

What?

What I am saying is that religion exists because those who had religion in their society survived to pass it along to their children.

It is possible that religion is just a side effect of a mechanism that actually does have survival value (see Richard Dawkins).

All we need is to be able to get food and stay warm, but we have gone to the moon and invented calculus.

Who says that we don't need to go to the moon?

Originally posted by Jbill311
It is possible that religion is just a side effect of a mechanism that actually does have survival value (see Richard Dawkins).

All we need is to be able to get food and stay warm, but we have gone to the moon and invented calculus.

Who says that we don't need to go to the moon?

I don't know. That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

to show our technological capability or a necessity for the human race????

Because we like to explore the unknown.

shouldnt we explore our own planet first then

Didn't we do that already? We're bored with this one. I want another.

we know didely squat of the dept of our ocean floor, hell we still experince to find new spiecies in the nature..................

Well go ahead then.

go ahead what? explore this planet?, look into how we can save our planet instead of dust collecting on Moon, Mars.........whats with these M balls?

Nah, not the moon. Something else. The moon is boring.

yeah typical women, Moon a lot of dust means work

It's not even special. We'll give it to the men.

we just shove it under the carpet

Gonna shove the moon under there?

carried away in the moonlight shadow.........

Well you can't throw moonlight under the carpet! It makes the moon goddess very unhappy!

she have to clean up under there before she is let out

Moon Goddesses don't clean moon dust!

Originally posted by Devil King
Because we die.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. Maybe people are worried about dieing and that being "it, end, finito" so much they need to believe that there is something afterwards. This is probably enhanced by some religions scaring their followers (or not yet followers) with such nasty ideas like Hell.

Fear could be a key reason actually, people were probably scared by events like floods, eclipses, thunder storms etc and therefore decided to worship these woefully things.

Religion is also an easy way out, because lets face it what we humans know is not worth knowing in comparison to what probably is, especially when you consider the vastness of space. So a "oh God made it all problem solved, time to drink some beer and have fun" approach would seem appealing.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. Maybe people are worried about dieing and that being "it, end, finito" so much they need to believe that there is something afterwards. This is probably enhanced by some religions scaring their followers (or not yet followers) with such nasty ideas like Hell.

Fear could be a key reason actually, people were probably scared by events like floods, eclipses, thunder storms etc and therefore decided to worship these woefully things.

Religion is also an easy way out, because lets face it what we humans know is not worth knowing in comparison to what probably is, especially when you consider the vastness of space. So a "oh God made it all problem solved, time to drink some beer and have fun" approach would seem appealing.

Yes, religion is often an easy way out, so it is probably pretty easy to convince a civilization of confused or frightened people that it exists. But I tend to think that the kings and rulers of the ancient civilizations needed religion more then the people did. Social power requires a certain degree of cooperation out of most of the society...you can't keep power using raw fear for very long (historically speaking). So rulers united with religion to add an element of stability into their rule (i.e., the Mandate of Heaven...)

the world would not dissolve if everyone turned into atheists. simply put god does not completely influence morals. people mistakinly assume all of their morals are taken from their belief in god. are you saying if we didnt believe in god we would kill people? maybe in your world, not in mine. simply because we are afraid of punishment and it has no point. not because god shakes a finger at you from thousands of years ago, but because its wrong.

A belief in god or no god would not make much difference, in my opinion. To say you are an atheist doesn't say much. Not to me, because it is only your belief. It is just a strong belief as one that believes there may be something.....and that is all.

belief in god means that you must serve a figure from the past. i would rather better myself and have fun than say go to church or temple and waste time

Some of us think better after our religious activities.

thats your opinion. i see it as a waste of time, when you get no real reward, i would just rather hang out and have fun

Religious beliefs didn't evolve, there is no such thing as evolution. God created the way religion is today

Originally posted by superkronick92
Religious beliefs didn't evolve, there is no such thing as evolution. God created the way religion is today

You must be joking.

Yep.

Originally posted by superkronick92
Yep.

It sounded like a joke, but JIA would say the same thing and mean it.

that he would my friend. but thats because god made JIA special(if you know what i mean). oops i mean science cough*

God made everyone special.

Originally posted by superkronick92
God made everyone special.

From dirt.

Dirt is special in it's own special way, God told me so.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
thats your opinion. i see it as a waste of time, when you get no real reward, i would just rather hang out and have fun

I would expect such talk from a boy of your age.

JK. I'm actually only 16 years old

Originally posted by superkronick92
God made everyone special.

IM SPECIAL(hits himself with a brick)

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
From dirt.

People aren't dirty.

Just a theory...........we are much more than clay...........lol

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I was wondering if religious beliefs have evolved in a negative or positive way.

People used to worship inanimate things like trees, rocks etc

Then they eventually realized it was rather silly so they decided to worship the sun, fire and other more impressive things.

Now that people know more about these things, therefore removing the awe effect, people are worshiping something they cannot even see.

Is this progress?

Maybe. And maybe the next step is not to worship anything but yourself...in a sort of Randian way.

Originally posted by debbiejo


People aren't dirty.

Just a theory...........we are much more than clay...........lol

But you are the dirtiest girl I know. jk

Everything can be made from Hydrogen so in a way we are just all hot gas, no wonder we fart a lot.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Everything can be made from Hydrogen so in a way we are just all hot gas, no wonder we fart a lot. They say prior to The Big Bang everything was just Hydrogen stuck together, then something happened that caused the explosion and everything randomly, perfectly created everything else.

Originally posted by lord xyz
They say prior to The Big Bang everything was just Hydrogen stuck together, then something happened that caused the explosion and everything randomly, perfectly created everything else.

Not quite what is said.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Maybe. And maybe the next step is not to worship anything but yourself...in a sort of Randian way.

Ayn had her own problems though, and her inner clique of friends turned into a Ayn-centric cult where no one was allowed to disagree with her because they thought objective truth existed, and that she was the final authority on anything.

Personally, if I'm going to go with a selfish philosophy, it'll probably be Satanism (minus the voodoo stuff). It does away with objectivism but keeps the relative egoism.

why satanism, its just the opposite end of the religious spectrum.

Well Bardock has a little point. Satanism is just sort of a worship of yourself. It's not a belief in gods nor Satan, but only you. Not you as a god though, but that you are what is important in this life, so enjoy it...

I donno...is that what is being spoken about here? I didn't go back to the last page.


Also talking about selfishness, we all are. We are taught that it's not a good thing. Selfishness, however, it a healthy thing when it comes to who you really are. It's like the phrase: "To your own self be true." In saying this, where does what you are doing to please others subtract what it is doing to you. And is that really a good thing. Is that what you/we are meant to be doing here? IE. serving others to make them happy, or to make our own selves happy.

who the hell is bardock?

Originally posted by chickenlover98
why satanism, its just the opposite end of the religious spectrum.

Satanists generally don't believe in the actual existence of Satan. It's actually an interesting philosophy, though some of their curses/hexes/rituals/etc. get a little sketchy. But in terms of moral outlook on life, it's not unlike Ayn Rand's selfish egocentric dogma.

Both have their share of problems, and I don't endorse either one. Satanism doesn't do itself any favors by calling itself Satanism either, imo. Society can't help but be freaked out by a name like that, despite the fact that it's much more tame than people would suspect.

But there's nothing inherently wrong with being selfish, even when it manifests itself as altruism toward others. So they aren't totally despicable belief systems...just partially flawed.

...

But my comment was mostly a joke anyway. If I were a "Satanist" it would be purely for the shock value. Atheism tends to do the same thing to people, just on a far lesser degree of magnitude.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I was wondering if religious beliefs have evolved in a negative or positive way.

People used to worship inanimate things like trees, rocks etc

Then they eventually realized it was rather silly so they decided to worship the sun, fire and other more impressive things.

Now that people know more about these things, therefore removing the awe effect, people are worshiping something they cannot even see.

Is this progress?

three things every human wonders at some point in their life -

Who created me (humans)?
Why am I here? (purpose of life)
What happens when I die?

Hence religion.

I actually think to an extent it could be argued that people amy become more "religous" in the sense that in the future reality will be harder to define. So therefore the way of the jedi and tolkeinism will become established religons.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
who the hell is bardock? It's not "Who", it's "What."

Originally posted by debbiejo
It's not "Who", it's "What."

That was funny.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
who the hell is bardock?

You'll find out soon enough.....

Originally posted by Alfheim
I actually think to an extent it could be argued that people amy become more "religous" in the sense that in the future reality will be harder to define. So therefore the way of the jedi and tolkeinism will become established religons.

Doubtful, only because our methods of research and factual data available to us are much greater. Many people believe religions because they actually believe that the stuff happened that is detailed in their holy texts. They will never actually believe that, say, Gandalf lived, simply because we can prove that he didn't, and will be able to do so for the forseeable future.

Beyond that, those things would probably (rightly) be considered philosophies, and not become religious beliefs. I've actually found out a lot about the Jedi philosophies and people who practice them, and most of them believe in different religions as well. Jediism is just an addition to the way they live their life, not a superceding of their pre-established beliefs.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Religion is also an easy way out, because lets face it what we humans know is not worth knowing in comparison to what probably is, especially when you consider the vastness of space. So a "oh God made it all problem solved, time to drink some beer and have fun" approach would seem appealing.

It's an easy way out for many people. But I don't think religion is an easy or simple thing for a lot of people who subscribe to it; whatever their version might be. There are a number of religious scholars who have dedicated their life to attempting to understand and quantify the mystery. Most religions are very complex. Unfortunately, more complex than most of the people who follow them realize. (And that's prime justification for religious leaders to take advantage of their followers.)

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I was wondering if religious beliefs have evolved in a negative or positive way.

People used to worship inanimate things like trees, rocks etc

Then they eventually realized it was rather silly so they decided to worship the sun, fire and other more impressive things.

Now that people know more about these things, therefore removing the awe effect, people are worshiping something they cannot even see.

Is this progress?

I believe worshipping a transcendant, immensley powerful being is an example in the evolutionary thought process than worshipping a rock or a man with an animal's head.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I believe worshipping a transcendant, immensley powerful being is an example in the evolutionary thought process than worshipping a rock or a man with an animal's head.


That only makes sense when the "transcendant immensley powerful being" doesn't act like an egotistic child.

exactly

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
That only makes sense when the "transcendant immensley powerful being" doesn't act like an egotistic child.

Why should the nature of the "transcendent immensely powerful being" have any effect on whether the worship is an evolutionary thought process? It could be an evolutionary thought process regardless of how the attitude of the god in question changes.

I still think governments for most of civilization relied on religion so much that they were desperately obligated to explain everything according to religion. So whenever some unpredictable disaster happened, it was the fault of some superior being. Of course they couldn't say something like "the supreme being was feeling so heavenly and tranquil that he decided to end this good season with a hurricane". They had to make the god(s) seem egotistical and childish if their stories were going to fly. People picked up on it, and we see entire civilizations that believe that their gods would send earthquakes and floods and kill millions of people just to prove pointless childish things.

It makes perfect sense, especially if the "transcendent immensely powerful beings" were acting like egotistical children.