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who do all of you think is the the SECOND greatest basketball player of all time?

now, we all know that Michael Jordan is the #1 greatest, but who's #2?

(and if you don't think Jordan was the greatest, then u need to keep quiet. i know its good to say yur opinion, but sometimes u just gotta accept it an bow down to the ****ing king! know wut i'm saying?
hands down, Jordan was #1.)

Why not just say who was the greatest excluding Jordan?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Why not just say who was the greatest excluding Jordan?

ok. whatever works.

Who is the greatest basketball player, exclluding Michael Jordan?

NOt vince carter. just in case a certain someone makes a comeback.

wilt
kareem
bird
magic
iceman gervin
doctor j

christ.... this could take a while

By dominance, Wilt. But his era was less Center-heavy, so he didn't have it as hard.

By talent, probably Kobe. But combine the two (talent/dominance) and I'd probably go with someone like Shaq.

i think that if Allen Iverson was a couple inches taller, he would have dominated the league much like Jordan.

IMO, i think he wasted his youth by spending a decade with a second-rate sixers team that would never make it to the top.

Bill Russell needs a nod.

I will freely confess to knowing nothing about basketball. I am someone that doesn't live in the US, and takes no interest in basketball.

So, (possibly different thread idea, but anyway), here are the players that I, as a foreign person not interested in basketball, would think are good, purely through hearing their names mentioned, playing that old NBA game on the Gameboy, or NBA Jam, or whatever. I'm curious to see how accurate it might be.

Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Patrick Ewing, Shaq, Kobe, and Magic Johnson.

i think jordan is the 2nd best. karrem 1st

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I'm curious to see how accurate it might be.

Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Patrick Ewing, Shaq, Kobe, and Magic Johnson.

You are on a good track. Those are all Hall of Famers (or future HOF) that could be argued in the top spots. Ewing being the worst of them followed by Barkley.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I will freely confess to knowing nothing about basketball. I am someone that doesn't live in the US, and takes no interest in basketball.

So, (possibly different thread idea, but anyway), here are the players that I, as a foreign person not interested in basketball, would think are good, purely through hearing their names mentioned, playing that old NBA game on the Gameboy, or NBA Jam, or whatever. I'm curious to see how accurate it might be.

Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Patrick Ewing, Shaq, Kobe, and Magic Johnson. cant believe you even typed barkley. he does alright when hes got the ball in his own hands but why do you think hes been kicked off 2 teams in his carreer? he doesnt know how to get along with his team mates. out of all the players in NBA history i say he fouled the most as well.

Very strangely-worded topic. By "best" what exactly is meant? Dominating? Floor Leader? Basketball-savyy? Scorer? Defender? Clutch? Athletic? All-in-one?

Jordan might be a few of those, not all. So which is it?

Originally posted by spidey-dude
cant believe you even typed barkley. he does alright when hes got the ball in his own hands but why do you think hes been kicked off 2 teams in his carreer? he doesnt know how to get along with his team mates. out of all the players in NBA history i say he fouled the most as well.

If you read my post, you'll see why.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
If you read my post, you'll see why. i did

Originally posted by SpaceMonkey
Very strangely-worded topic. By "best" what exactly is meant? Dominating? Floor Leader? Basketball-savyy? Scorer? Defender? Clutch? Athletic? All-in-one?

Jordan might be a few of those, not all. So which is it?

dominating? jordan
floor leader? jordan
basketball savvy? jordan
scorer? jordan
defender? not the best, but still good enough
clutch? jordan
athletic? jordan
all in one? jordan

thats why i think he's all around the best.
but thank you for making the word "BEST" more specific.
seriously, thats not sarcasm.

so who do u think is second best?

Floor leader - Jordan? He is the GOAT no doubt but their are much better floor leaders throughout basketball history imo, Magic being top of the list. Jordan had to learn to be a leader but players like Magic are born that way.

I think in terms of ability you have to say Wilt is the second best player, yes most of his records were set when he didnt have much competition but you cant deny how unstoppable he was (even today he would be putting up some scary numbers). Shaq could have been but he never developed anything outside of a dunk really and his FT shooting is his weakness. Shaq had all the skills and athleticism to be the undisputed GOAT if he had the work ethic, but once he won a championship he got content and never reached his unlimited potential (yeah i know he has 4 rings but with the teams he has had he should have more).
Personally i think Magic is the 2nd best player of all time but thats more because he is my favourite player. He has the skills and achievements to back it up but because he was an average defender i view that as a weakness. MJ had no weaknesses to his game thats why he is the GOAT, the only other player i can think of that had that kind of game on both ends is Wilt. Kobe has no weaknesses in his game to, but he still has a long way to go until we can judge his career as a whole.
You could make a case for other players like Robertson, Bird and Kareem, but i'll let someone else go into that.

Originally posted by TheGame17
dominating? jordan
floor leader? jordan
basketball savvy? jordan
scorer? jordan
defender? not the best, but still good enough
clutch? jordan
athletic? jordan
all in one? jordan

thats why i think he's all around the best.
but thank you for making the word "BEST" more specific.
seriously, thats not sarcasm.

so who do u think is second best?


LOL!!! Wow, that can only be described as silly! Dude, seriously, take off the $200 Jordans, stop staring at his posters and get off his nuts. He was the best scorer at his position but not the best period. Chamberlain averaged over 50 for an entire season. Magic was hands down the best floor leader ever. If he was truly basket-savyy he would have not taken so many bad shots in his career and would have had a better filed goal percentage. He's one of the top 5 players ever!!! Not the best though.

jordans probably the best all around player, but if you said for each stat etc then he wouldnt always be top.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
i did

No helping you then, is there?

Well I understood what you were trying to say so I thought your post had its share of input. I hope my feedback was of better use to you than spidey-dudes.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
No helping you then, is there? i think its you that needs the help

Dude man, lay off him. You look like an ass right now. He openly admitted that he wasn't stating those guys as the 2nd best players of all time. He was pretty much asking if the players he had heard of rank towards the top.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
i think its you that needs the help

From your reading ability it seems the only help I'd need from you would be deciding whether I 'want fries with that'.

Originally posted by Myth
Well I understood what you were trying to say so I thought your post had its share of input. I hope my feedback was of better use to you than spidey-dudes.

Yeah, I was just interested to see how the general outsider perspective matched up with the opinion of someone that knew what they were talking about.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
From your reading ability it seems the only help I'd need from you would be deciding whether I 'want fries with that'.



Yeah, I was just interested to see how the general outsider perspective matched up with the opinion of someone that knew what they were talking about. naw i dont think you and your family needs to be eating anymore fried food. and aslo i read everything what you said i just think big mistake ading barkley just cause hes popular.

Are you an idiot?

I added everyone there because they are well known, that was the whole point of the post. I said I know nothing about basketball. Again, this is all in the post (that you didn't read).

Originally posted by spidey-dude
naw i dont think you and your family needs to be eating anymore fried food. and aslo i read everything what you said i just think big mistake ading barkley just cause hes popular.

stay on topic.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Are you an idiot?

I added everyone there because they are well known, that was the whole point of the post. I said I know nothing about basketball. Again, this is all in the post (that you didn't read). if you know nothing about basketball why bother making a full of yourself coming on a basketball thread ?

Originally posted by spidey-dude
why bother making a full of yourself

Oh, the irony. (You'll probably need to look that up, it's not a metal)


TheGame- apologies for the idiot.

Idiot- if you want to carry on embarrassing yourself, send it to my PM box, where I can delete it. Stop derailing the thread.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Oh, the irony. (You'll probably need to look that up, it's not a metal)


TheGame- apologies for the idiot.

Idiot- if you want to carry on embarrassing yourself, send it to my PM box, where I can delete it. Stop derailing the thread. look in the mirror if you want to see an idiot. try not to break the mirror atleast

Kindergarten humour, gotta love it.

Seriously though i dont get the Barkley hate, i can understand not liking the person but the dude was a great player.
At the time the league had never seen a player combine speed and power the way he did, he was a great low post scorer and probably the best rebounder for his size in the history of the league. Later in his career he was money from the top of the key and could even step out into 3pt land. He was an excellent passer from the post and off the dribble and he was also and underrated post defender and shot blocker.
Sure his personality rubs people the wrong way but if thats your beef with him then its got nothing to do with this thread because this is about basketball skills.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Kindergarten humour, gotta love it.

Seriously though i dont get the Barkley hate, i can understand not liking the person but the dude was a great player.
At the time the league had never seen a player combine speed and power the way he did, he was a great low post scorer and probably the best rebounder for his size in the history of the league. Later in his career he was money from the top of the key and could even step out into 3pt land. He was an excellent passer from the post and off the dribble and he was also and underrated post defender and shot blocker.
Sure his personality rubs people the wrong way but if thats your beef with him then its got nothing to do with this thread because this is about basketball skills. barkley was a great player when he had the ball in his own hands he just had trouble accociating with other players. thats how he got kicked off the 76ers and why the rockets didnt want him no more. his best carreer was when he was with the suns. i live in houston i went to that game where him and pippen almost got into a big ass fist fight and all cause of his attitude.

Michael Jordan got into fights with both Bill Cartwright and Steve Kerr, that has nothing to do with their skills and place in history. You've either got game or you havent, Barkley had plenty. It sounds more like you dont like the person which is fine but its not relevant to this thread.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Michael Jordan got into fights with both Bill Cartwright and Steve Kerr, that has nothing to do with their skills and place in history. You've either got game or you havent, Barkley had plenty. It sounds more like you dont like the person which is fine but its not relevant to this thread. i dont like him cause he made some mistakes for his teams. but hes a good player on his own. look him up how many times hes technically fouled in his career

Kobe has rubbed guys the wrong way too FYI.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
i dont like him cause he made some mistakes for his teams. but hes a good player on his own. look him up how many times hes technically fouled in his career

hes also made a lot of game winning baskets. he was short, built like a brick and had enough speed to take people on. i think the man deserves a lot of respect. so he shoots his mouth off? gary payton was worse, john stockton was a dirty defender, rodman got into peoples heads and probably had the worst mouth of all, but all these guys could back it up. paytons defence was reknown, stockton is regarded as one of the greatest points ever, and rodman one of the best rebounders. and he wasnt that tall either.

he was stilll an asswhole to alot of players. thats one thing that messed up his carreeer alot

Funny how Barkley's gone from just being picked for being popular, to being ineligible for being a dick.

Seems like I'm not the only one who knows nothing about basketball.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Funny how Barkley's gone from just being picked for being popular, to being ineligible for being a dick.

Seems like I'm not the only one who knows nothing about basketball. uh you where the only one who picked up. put your specs on. nobody else brought him up except you

Originally posted by spidey-dude
uh you where the only one who picked up. put your specs on. nobody else brought him up except you

Yes, and you, being an idiot, failed to read the post.

Then you claimed I only picked him for being popular.

Then, when the big people who actually know about basketball came and analysed his actual attributes, you started going on about his attitude.

It's obvious you're a 15 year old mug that doesn't know what he's on about.

Carry on making a 'full' of yourself. Or an 'asswhole'.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Yes, and you, being an idiot, failed to read the post.

Then you claimed I only picked him for being popular.

Then, when the big people who actually know about basketball came and analysed his actual attributes, you started going on about his attitude.

It's obvious you're a 15 year old mug that doesn't know what he's on about.

Carry on making a 'full' of yourself. Or an 'asswhole'. again you dont know jack about basketball or any other sport. dont know why you waist your time here. isnt it time for bed anyways. better you go before mommy and daddy get on you back again

Originally posted by spidey-dude
again you dont know jack about basketball or any other sport. dont know why you waist your time here. isnt it time for bed anyways. better you go before mommy and daddy get on you back again

It's waste, not waist, you fool.

It's clear that I know more about basketball than you, because you are an idiot. Why are you using smileys? Feeling insecure about being dumb?




A question (to anyone other than the idiot).

Where would you guys rate Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It's waste, not waist, you fool.

It's clear that I know more about basketball than you, because you are an idiot. Why are you using smileys? Feeling insecure about being dumb?




A question (to anyone other than the idiot).

Where would you guys rate Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? is idiot the only insult you know ? seems like you hear it alot cause you use it in every thread. and just to let the little boy know that karrem is ahead of jordans level i say. he still holds the record for most poing in a season. jordan 2nd. if karreem stayed afew more seasons he would have been more popular than jordan i say

Originally posted by spidey-dude
is idiot the only insult you know ? seems like you hear it alot cause you use it in every thread.

No, but it fits so well.
Originally posted by spidey-dude

and just to let the little boy know

Cute how you copied what I did there.
Originally posted by spidey-dude


that karrem is ahead of jordans level i say. he still holds the record for most poing in a season. jordan 2nd. if karreem stayed afew more seasons he would have been more popular than jordan i say

What do others think?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
No, but it fits so well.


Cute how you copied what I did there.


What do others think? naw didnt copy i just think it matches you verry much

Originally posted by spidey-dude
naw didnt copy i just think it matches you verry much

OK. Whatever.


People who know what they're talking about:

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
OK. Whatever.


People who know what they're talking about: ever tried websurfing on your own ?

My god. Give it a rest. Kareem was good but I think either Magic or Wilt go in that spot for 2.

Originally posted by TheGame17
dominating? jordan
floor leader? jordan
basketball savvy? jordan
scorer? jordan
defender? not the best, but still good enough
clutch? jordan
athletic? jordan
all in one? jordan

thats why i think he's all around the best.
but thank you for making the word "BEST" more specific.
seriously, thats not sarcasm.

so who do u think is second best?

I kind of disagree with alot of those.
Dominating? Wilt Chamberlain
Floor leader? Magic Johnson
Scorer? Jordan
Defender? Ron Artest
Clutch? Jerry West
Athletic? Lebron James
All in one? Jordan

So yeah he is the best but not in every category.

Originally posted by Warmonger
My god. Give it a rest. Kareem was good but I think either Magic or Wilt go in that spot for 2.

Some people have to be the centre of attention, even if it is negative attention.

I've watched Magic a few times, he was a pretty great player. I didn't know he was so highly rated there, though.

Dont lower yourself Vic, you'll just feel dumber by reading every one of his responses.
In answer to your Kareem question he holds the record for the most points scored in a career and even though he was a great scorer he holds that record because he had such a long career (20yrs) and he was able to keep himself in great playing condition to preserve his career.
He won championships at every level he played and is one of the top 3 centers of all time imo.
As for his standing against the best players at any position, he is definitely top 10, i would put him top 5 but many would call me biased because he played for my team (the Lakers).
If you're interested here's some more info on him. He really is an interesting character outside of basketball to, he has written a few books on Jazz music and black history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Abdul-Jabbar#Player_profile

Originally posted by koolruningz
Dont lower yourself Vic, you'll just feel dumber by reading every one of his responses.
In answer to your Kareem question he holds the record for the most points scored in a career and even though he was a great scorer he holds that record because he had such a long career (20yrs) and he was able to keep himself in great playing condition to preserve his career.
He won championships at every level he played and is one of the top 3 centers of all time imo.
As for his standing against the best players at any position, he is definitely top 10, i would put him top 5 but many would call me biased because he played for my team (the Lakers).
If you're interested here's some more info on him. He really is an interesting character outside of basketball to, he has written a few books on Jazz music and black history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Abdul-Jabbar#Player_profile

Yeah I've read about him before. Interesting guy, compared to many players.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
karrem is ahead of jordans level i say. he still holds the record for most poing in a season. jordan 2nd. if karreem stayed afew more seasons he would have been more popular than jordan i say

If Kareem had stayed a few more seasons he would be in a wheelchair now, he was 42 when he retired after having one of the longest NBA careers in history.
Jordan hit the league at just the right time, Bird and Magic had rejuvenated interest in the league again with the Celtics/Lakers rivalries and Jordan came in and showed a level of athleticism that had not yet been seen. He was marketed just the right way and had a clean cut image that made him so popular, as Magic and Birds careers wound down Jordan took over and showed that if he had a good team around him there was nothing to stop him winning championships every year. He had the whole package, flawless game and a great media personality. Kareem had game but hated talking to the media so they painted a picture of him being aloof and arrogant, as the media tends to do. He had no chance of ever being as popular as Jordan.

karrem 6 MVPS
magic 3
jordan 5
barkley only 1
larry bird 3
hakeem olajuwon kicked ass but hes only got 1 MVP

Originally posted by koolruningz
If Kareem had stayed a few more seasons he would be in a wheelchair now, he was 42 when he retired after having one of the longest NBA careers in history.
Jordan hit the league at just the right time, Bird and Magic had rejuvenated interest in the league again with the Celtics/Lakers rivalries and Jordan came in and showed a level of athleticism that had not yet been seen. He was marketed just the right way and had a clean cut image that made him so popular, as Magic and Birds careers wound down Jordan took over and showed that if he had a good team around him there was nothing to stop him winning championships every year. He had the whole package, flawless game and a great media personality. Kareem had game but hated talking to the media so they painted a picture of him being aloof and arrogant, as the media tends to do. He had no chance of ever being as popular as Jordan. majics carreer went down cause of HIV he got. larry bird retired cause of age. and so what if karrem was 42 when he retired. jordan retired around 45 years old. i just looked at nba.com heres the records for mvps

6 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5 - Michael Jordan
5 - Bill Russell
4 - Wilt Chamberlain
3 - Larry Bird
3 - Magic Johnson
3 - Moses Malone
2 - Tim Duncan
2 - Karl Malone
2 - Steve Nash
2 - Bob Pettit

Jordan was how old when he retired?

Originally posted by koolruningz
Jordan was how old when he retired? my bad i thought he was around 44 or 45 when he left cause i started to see some white on his hair during the games. but yah he left around 40. but still i say if karreem playe him 1 one on one karrem would beat him but still jordan would still give him a hell of a game.

Dude he was bald.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Dude he was bald. talking about his face

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! I miss school!!

i hate it in threads when we get people who argue like they're still in school. spidey dude, i'm looking at you kiddo. no offence but with every post you've made you're calling vvd over for not knowing much about basketball. be happy that another person is showing some interest. existing fans should embrace the newbies not tell then they're idiots.

Originally posted by vandalworks
i hate it in threads when we get people who argue like they're still in school. spidey dude, i'm looking at you kiddo. no offence but with every post you've made you're calling vvd over for not knowing much about basketball. be happy that another person is showing some interest. existing fans should embrace the newbies not tell then they're idiots. seems like your intrested in me if your following me around on the threads i post on. go to the comics thread find a guy named soljer hit on him. he likes guys . and ebrace the newbies ? cant you tell how long somone has been on here if you can read dates im sure.

Originally posted by vandalworks
i hate it in threads when we get people who argue like they're still in school. spidey dude, i'm looking at you kiddo. no offence but with every post you've made you're calling vvd over for not knowing much about basketball. be happy that another person is showing some interest. existing fans should embrace the newbies not tell then they're idiots.

Especially as in every exchange with someone that knows basketball well, he says something stupid.

I'm not actually a total newbie, but I wouldn't claim to know as much as (most of) you.

i mean a newbie to the sport. i've noticed your posts on here for a long while dont worry.

i'm following you? this is the only thread i've seen you post on. and if i'm following you why would you need to tell me to look in the comics thread? and like i said to vvd, i meant newbie as in a newbie to basketball. he admitted he didnt know much about it and asked for our opinions on the players he mentioned. you lamblasted him for selecting those as the second best players. maybe you should read peoples posts before you criticise them.

Originally posted by vandalworks
i mean a newbie to the sport. i've noticed your posts on here for a long while dont worry.

i'm following you? this is the only thread i've seen you post on. and if i'm following you why would you need to tell me to look in the comics thread? and like i said to vvd, i meant newbie as in a newbie to basketball. he admitted he didnt know much about it and asked for our opinions on the players he mentioned. you lamblasted him for selecting those as the second best players. maybe you should read peoples posts before you criticise them. i didnt criticise him i just brought up mistake him thinking barkley is the 2nd best player of all time compared to many others. and so i made a mistake with the jordan thing about him retiring at his age big deal.

again, read the post. he didnt think barkley was the second best player, he wondered if he was any good as he only knows names from games and such. thats your only real mistake. otherwise you seem fairly knowledgable about the sport.

Spidey, not that I am following you around, but you need to chill with the offensive remarks, dude. Everyone here has an opinion, and, like you, not everyone will agree with them. The beauty of this forum is that everyone, for the most part, respects each other. Is Barkley the 2nd best player ever, not in my opinion. Vic wasn't even saying that, but still. Your opinions, believe or not, are NOT shared by everyone, but we can come here and debate them respectfully, without name calling or put-downs, beyond playful ones. I have no beef with you or anyone, just trying to be the voice of reason.

PEACE

Originally posted by SpaceMonkey
Spidey, not that I am following you around, but you need to chill with the offensive remarks, dude. Everyone here has an opinion, and, like you, not everyone will agree with them. The beauty of this forum is that everyone, for the most part, respects each other. Is Barkley the 2nd best player ever, not in my opinion. Vic wasn't even saying that, but still. Your opinions, believe or not, are NOT shared by everyone, but we can come here and debate them respectfully, without name calling or put-downs, beyond playful ones. I have no beef with you or anyone, just trying to be the voice of reason.

PEACE i dont like being offended as well.
and ok fine peace lets start from the begining again

Originally posted by Warmonger
I kind of disagree with alot of those.
Dominating? Wilt Chamberlain
Floor leader? Magic Johnson
Scorer? Jordan
Defender? Ron Artest
Clutch? Jerry West
Athletic? Lebron James
All in one? Jordan

So yeah he is the best but not in every category.

i can undersatnd most of that, but i know there are way better defenders than ron artest.

Originally posted by TheGame17
i can undersatnd most of that, but i know there are way better defenders than ron artest.

Well that was the hardest part really. Shawn Marion, Ben Wallace, Andrei before last season were all really good. Rodman was pretty good Bill Lambier was drity but effective. Jordan was a great defneder but the best? I don't know about that.

best defender not, but dont underestimate ron harper. he was fantastic. jordan has even stated that he was the hardes person to play against, so teh bulls traded to GET him to save mj going against him.

If we're talking great defenders you have to add players like Russell, Michael Cooper, Pippen (who was better than Jordan), Dumars, Hakeem, Mutombo, Bobby Jones and Rodman (who could guard any position).

Originally posted by TheGame17
who do all of you think is the the SECOND greatest basketball player of all time?

now, we all know that Michael Jordan is the #1 greatest, but who's #2?

(and if you don't think Jordan was the greatest, then u need to keep quiet. i know its good to say yur opinion, but sometimes u just gotta accept it an bow down to the ****ing king! know wut i'm saying?
hands down, Jordan was #1.)

Good thread. Now, I never saw him play, nor am I a fan, but I suppose it's gotta be Wilt?

Originally posted by BobbyD
Good thread. Now, I never saw him play, nor am I a fan, but I suppose it's gotta be Wilt?



well, he slept with alotta chicks. thats gotta count for something.

Originally posted by TheGame17
well, he slept with alotta chicks. thats gotta count for something.

I'm pretty sure they all did.

Originally posted by BobbyD


I'm pretty sure they all did.

ya, but i heard he got the most haha

anyways, do any of you think its fair to compare Lebron James to Michael Jordan?
i don't think he's at that level yet...

Taht depends on what part of his gmae he is being comapred too. As the Face of the LEague yeah it is fair. As for the actual game def not and I'm probably the only Lebron James fanboy on these boards. Athletically he is pretty much the best speciman the NBA has scene but he just lacks the intensity to compete on Jordan's level.

Basketball is ust too easy for him.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Taht depends on what part of his gmae he is being comapred too. As the Face of the LEague yeah it is fair. As for the actual game def not and I'm probably the only Lebron James fanboy on these boards. Athletically he is pretty much the best speciman the NBA has scene but he just lacks the intensity to compete on Jordan's level.

Basketball is ust too easy for him.

i was just referring to overall performance.
and ya i get that too that he isn't intense enough..