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Five minutes prep for The Ultimates but one hour for X-Men to think of all the angles and think of plans. No equipment that isn't normally around can be brought with them.

The X-Men that take part are:

Beast
Colossus
Cyclops
Iceman
Marvel Girl
Shadowcat
Wolverine

Nick Fury
Captain America
Iron Man
The Wasp
Thor
Hawkeye
Quicksilver

Takes place in New York.

Hawkeye can kill?

Anyone can kill if they want or have to.

Unless Quicksilver stops her, Marvel girl will take down every Ultimate except possibly Thor or Iron-man and they will fall to the rest of the X-men. Telepathic powers for the win

In Ultimate War the Ultimates had to capture every Ultimate X-man. They only caught Xavier as he sacrificed himself to let his students escape

The Ultimate x-men can't take a beating in my opinion, they're too fragile.

A telepathic character already puts the fight in the X-men's favour, add badass characters like Beast and Ice-man to the mix and I think Ultimate X-men win 6 or 7/10 IMO

Quicksilver could end her quickly if he has to.

Or Thor bring lightning down on her. She is a big bump if they don't stop her, which I think they can.

Looks like I have a debate on my hands. Perfect.

Originally posted by willRules
A telepathic character already puts the fight in the X-men's favour, add badass characters like Beast and Ice-man to the mix and I think Ultimate X-men win 6 or 7/10 IMO

There are a lot of strong personalities on the Avengers' team and they definitely have the speed advantage. I don't even see how they would be capable of taking 2/10 :/

The Ultimates just have stronger characters in their lineup.

The x-men were taken captive by the Dynamo and Soviet Thor. I mean, COME ON!

Originally posted by llagrok
There are a lot of strong personalities on the Avengers' team and they definitely have the speed advantage. I don't even see how they would be capable of taking 2/10 :/

The Ultimates just have stronger characters in their lineup.

The x-men were taken captive by the Dynamo and Soviet Thor. I mean, COME ON!

They should be able to take at least 3.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Quicksilver could end her quickly if he has to.

Or Thor bring lightning down on her. She is a big bump if they don't stop her, which I think they can.

Looks like I have a debate on my hands. Perfect.

With an hour of prep, I'm thinking a TK forcefield will be one of the first things the X-Men does....

Originally posted by Draco69
With an hour of prep, I'm thinking a TK forcefield will be one of the first things the X-Men does....

Not allowed.

They get prep to think of what to do but don't start out with forcefields etc.

Ultimates win hands down. sure x-men have prep but so do the ultimates, and they have quicksilver. marvel girl is taken off the grid before she can squeez out a thought. Hawkeye from a distance is fatal, and if positioned right can take out cyclops, possibly beast and shadowcat if properly timed. Ironman can avoid shadowcat and pick off characters like the beast and take the fight to iceman and by this time the x-mens numbers would be taken down so the option of double teaming opens up. Thor takes colossus if not whoever else is left and showing to be the biggest threat. wolverine cant get threw caps shield and ulti cap can hold/beat wolverine long enough for support from someone like wasp or quicksilver.

if anything last x-men standing is shadowcat and in the position she would find herself in, best thing would to just roll over and play dead.

Ultimates win. =D

Ultimate Iceman has never impressed me.

Except maybe when Weapon X attacked them.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
if anything last x-men standing is shadowcat and in the position she would find herself in, best thing would to just roll over and play dead.

Good Point. The battle starts with Kitty holding Jean's hand. A phased Jean mean the Ultimates are screwed.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Good Point. The battle starts with Kitty holding Jean's hand. A phased Jean mean the Ultimates are screwed. NO.

This is MY thread and I say no.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Good Point. The battle starts with Kitty holding Jean's hand. A phased Jean mean the Ultimates are screwed.

not bad.. but the ultimate x-men wouldnt really think of doing that, they most likely think they can take the ultimates, and sadly they cant.
jean is out. not only do ultimates have prep they have nick fury who knows first person who needs to be put down is jean. and thats exactly what will happen.

ultimates hit hard, and hit fast. this is over before it began.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
not bad.. but the ultimate x-men wouldnt really think of doing that, they most likely think they can take the ultimates, and sadly they cant.
jean is out. not only do ultimates have prep they have nick fury who knows first person who needs to be put down is jean. and thats exactly what will happen.

ultimates hit hard, and hit fast. this is over before it began.

ult xmen

Originally posted by ALEMASTER
ult xmen How?

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Good Point. The battle starts with Kitty holding Jean's hand. A phased Jean mean the Ultimates are screwed.

I think that Kitty will wear out before Jean is capable of taking out every Ultimate.

Then again, I don't even believe that she can take out everyone with telepathy.

Exactly.

The Ultimates are to much for them.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
not bad.. but the ultimate x-men wouldnt really think of doing that, they most likely think they can take the ultimates, and sadly they cant.
jean is out. not only do ultimates have prep they have nick fury who knows first person who needs to be put down is jean. and thats exactly what will happen.

ultimates hit hard, and hit fast. this is over before it began.

Why wouldn't they think of that? It makes perfect sense.

They know they can't match Thor or Iron Man in power.

With an hour of prep and strategy, all it really takes is Kitty keeping Jean phased long enough for Jean to clean house.

Which they've done before.

Originally posted by llagrok
I think that Kitty will wear out before Jean is capable of taking out every Ultimate.

Then again, I don't even believe that she can take out everyone with telepathy.

Jean can take nearly every Ultimate.

Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Ant-Man and Hulk will all be mind-f*cked.

The only ones who MIGHT be immune is Thor and Iron-Man.

Not to mention, Jean's powers have been greatly amplified by the "Phoenix Force".

Originally posted by Draco69
Jean can take nearly every Ultimate.

Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Ant-Man and Hulk will all be mind-f*cked.

The only ones who MIGHT be immune is Thor and Iron-Man.

Not to mention, Jean's powers have been greatly amplified by the "Phoenix Force".

I still don't think she can break Thor, or get through to Iron Man.

Hulk and Cap? I'm not sure :/

Originally posted by llagrok
I still don't think she can break Thor, or get through to Iron Man.

Hulk and Cap? I'm not sure :/

Cap is inconsequential. Any of the X-Men can take of him.

Iron Man is iffy. He's never been shown to have TP blockers.

Hulk isn't immune to telepathy. Actually he's vulnerable since a section of his brain controls his transformation. Wasp simply zapped it to turn him back to Banner. Jean can simply use her TP to tell it to shut off. With prep, they have more than enough time to find it.

Thor has never shown immunity to telepathy. Just because his 616 version has resistance doesn't mean he does.

Originally posted by Draco69
Why wouldn't they think of that? It makes perfect sense.

They know they can't match Thor or Iron Man in power.

With an hour of prep and strategy, all it really takes is Kitty keeping Jean phased long enough for Jean to clean house.

Which they've done before.

Tell that to Colossus He has already made bitches out of those 2 before, not sure about what would happen now though.

Btw, couldn't Arrow dude (I refuse to call him Hawkeye) take out quite many with his nuke arrows?

Originally posted by Jyppe
Tell that to Colossus He has already made bitches out of those 2 before, not sure about what would happen now though.

Btw, couldn't Arrow dude (I refuse to call him Hawkeye) take out quite many with his nuke arrows?

Not if Storm blows them back at them with a hurricane.

Or Cyke blasts them outta the air.

Or Jean freezes them in mid-air and throws them back.

The Ultimates' power really lies in the Scarlet Witch. She's the wild card that could turn the tide.

However her powers take time to work. She literally has to do probability equations in her head to use her powers.

Originally posted by Draco69
Cap is inconsequential. Any of the X-Men can take of him.

Iron Man is iffy. He's never been shown to have TP blockers.

Hulk isn't immune to telepathy. Actually he's vulnerable since a section of his brain controls his transformation. Wasp simply zapped it to turn him back to Banner. Jean can simply use her TP to tell it to shut off. With prep, they have more than enough time to find it.

Thor has never shown immunity to telepathy. Just because his 616 version has resistance doesn't mean he does.

Find it? I don't think so actually. They wouldn't even know whether there's a particular part of his brain that controls his transformation. It's not exactly Hulk 101.

Kitty has been vulnerable to electric damage on several occasions. Iron Man can also take advantage of the fact that she still has to hear.

Thor was able to see through Loki's illusions / reality warping. I think he has a pretty strong will.

Originally posted by Draco69
Not if Storm blows them back at them with a hurricane.

Or Cyke blasts them outta the air.

Or Jean freezes them in mid-air and throws them back.

The Ultimates' power really lies in the Scarlet Witch. She's the wild card that could turn the tide.

However her powers take time to work. She literally has to do probability equations in her head to use her powers.

Or maybe Hawkeye is just too fast for them. Not like blitzing Ultimate Storm should be a problem.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Tell that to Colossus He has already made bitches out of those 2 before, not sure about what would happen now though.

Btw, couldn't Arrow dude (I refuse to call him Hawkeye) take out quite many with his nuke arrows?

Wanna brag about off panel feats?

How about the x-men being beaten up by the Russian Thor and Chinese Iron Man?

No Phoenix Force.

She could take them out but like I said no getting shields up or doing the Kitty trick.

Explain how she will stop Quicksilver. Hes fast enough to speedblitz her.

Originally posted by llagrok
Find it? I don't think so actually. They wouldn't even know whether there's a particular part of his brain that controls his transformation. It's not exactly Hulk 101.

SHIELD and Xavier had close ties. They exchanged files including those about the Hulk.

If THAT fails, Jean can simply use Cerebro to scan Hulk's mind.

Originally posted by llagrok
Kitty has been vulnerable to electric damage on several occasions. Iron Man can also take advantage of the fact that she still has to hear.

Kitty's never been harmed by electricity. The only case she was harmed was by Future Cable who used a weapon specifically designed for her.

Besides Kitty only has to keep Jean phased for a short amount of time for her to survive Quicksilver's speedblitz. THEN Jean can erect a field.

Originally posted by llagrok
Thor was able to see through Loki's illusions / reality warping. I think he has a pretty strong will.

Which may have been do to his Asgardian godhood, rather than telepathic resistance.

Thor has never shown the ability to withstand a psychic attack.

In fact, he was psychically frozen by Charles Xavier and everyone else in the area in Ultimate War.

Originally posted by llagrok
Or maybe Hawkeye is just too fast for them. Not like blitzing Ultimate Storm should be a problem.

Hawkeye isn't a speedster. He's a guy with really good aim. I would put more stock in Storm blowing his ass away.



Originally posted by llagrok


How about the x-men being beaten up by the Russian Thor and Chinese Iron Man?

So were the Fantastic Four. Please. They were attacked by an entire army (with enormous prep) in their own home. That's not a fair fight.

Not to mention the Ultimates all got taken down to.

They won due to devious planning that probably spanned years.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
No Phoenix Force.


There's no such thing as the Phoenix Force in Ultimate Universe.

It was concluded that the "Phoenix Force" is simply Jean's powers. She imagines green goblins to cope with the enormous immensity of her powers.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
She could take them out but like I said no getting shields up or doing the Kitty trick.

You gave them an hour prep. What else can't they do with it?

Making last-minute rules to curry favor for the Ultimates is kinda pathetic.



First you said no forcefields, no you say no phasing.

What Cyclops can't use his blasts either...?

Originally posted by Jyppe
Tell that to Colossus He has already made bitches out of those 2 before, not sure about what would happen now though.

Btw, couldn't Arrow dude (I refuse to call him Hawkeye) take out quite many with his nuke arrows?

errr. seriously that fight took place mostly off panel and in a more x-men focused story. not to mention Thor wasnt serious, honestly i dont know how serious or why he even took part in the mission given his characters attitude with such things.

in this fight the ultimates are not holding back and with the exception of wolverine are willing to go much further than the x-men are for the win.

Yeah hawkeye could pretty much pick off Cyclops and half the team with a sniper rifle, nevermind trick arrows on the scale of little nukes

Cap is seriously under estimated as the x-men been overestimated in this fight. simply put they wont think of using jean to shut them all down cuz they think they can take them without going to the extreme. thats a fallback they wont get to cuz in the start jean will be taken out by quicksilver.

its easy to say 'oh she will just do this' but thats not how the x-men operate, they dont just send in their big gun and sit back and wont do it unless they think its needed. which they wont. as is given their last encounter with the ultimates colosuss will be slated to handle thor, who when serious as shown with his fights in Ultimate Power and against his own team is if not as strong or stronger but has the advantage on his range of powers.

in all seriousness he could rain lighting down on everyone causing massive damage and distracting/panicing the X-men making the ultimates work all the easier.

Originally posted by Draco69


In fact, he was psychically frozen by Charles Xavier and everyone else in the area in Ultimate War.

come on now... ultimate war might have had the ultimates in it but was really an x-men focused book and cuz of that they had the advantage.

plus he could of just stood real still not like ulti thor would want to do something like that anyway.

and nobody makes thor do anything

- Thor was affected by Loki's illusions at first, but was able to resist them later on.

- Does the Hulk know that he has a particular weakness that makes him turn back into Banner? I don't think so.

- Hawkeye isn't a speedster? He was pretty impressive when he managed to shoot 5 armed guards before they got him, when they were standing 10 inches away.

- Survive Quicksilver's speedblitz? Have you seen how fast he is?

Also, phasing Jean while she uses her telepathy or telekinesis? I've never seen them do that. It's a pretty basic strategy and seeing as they've never used it, it's reasonable to believe it won't work. Especially seeing as Emma was unable to take over Kitty's mind while she was being phased all the way down underground.

That was 616, but I'm pretty sure the same rules apply in the Ultimate universe.

Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor was affected by Loki's illusions at first, but was able to resist them later on.

- Does the Hulk know that he has a particular weakness that makes him turn back into Banner? I don't think so.

- Hawkeye isn't a speedster? He was pretty impressive when he managed to shoot 5 armed guards before they got him, when they were standing 10 inches away.

- Survive Quicksilver's speedblitz? Have you seen how fast he is?

Also, phasing Jean while she uses her telepathy or telekinesis? I've never seen them do that. It's a pretty basic strategy and seeing as they've never used it, it's reasonable to believe it won't work. Especially seeing as Emma was unable to take over Kitty's mind while she was being phased all the way down underground.

That was 616, but I'm pretty sure the same rules apply in the Ultimate universe.

- Thor rocks.

- nope he dont =D

- nah, no special powers, just mad skillz.

- time stops for him. meaning he is faster than thought. so faster than jean.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
errr. seriously that fight took place mostly off panel and in a more x-men focused story. not to mention Thor wasnt serious, honestly i dont know how serious or why he even took part in the mission given his characters attitude with such things.

And the Ultimates had the luxury of prep, an entire army and the X-Men being at half-roster...

Originally posted by SevenShackles
in this fight the ultimates are not holding back and with the exception of wolverine are willing to go much further than the x-men are for the win.

This is a forum-match. ALL of them are bloodlusted.


Originally posted by SevenShackles
Originally posted by SevenShackles
Yeah hawkeye could pretty much pick off Cyclops and half the team with a sniper rifle, nevermind trick arrows on the scale of little nukes

Again. Hawkeye's arrows can be deflected by winds, blasts, ice or just plain TK. It would be hilarious for Hawkeye to shoot a nuke arrow only for Jean to throw it back at his teammates.

Plus there's mindcontrol. Why not have Jean control say Hawkeye to shoot at his teammates?

Or for Pietro to speedblitz his teammates?

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Cap is seriously under estimated as the x-men been overestimated in this fight. simply put they wont think of using jean to shut them all down cuz they think they can take them without going to the extreme. thats a fallback they wont get to cuz in the start jean will be taken out by quicksilver.

Cap is rather useless. Iceman accidently froze Cap and won the battle by accident.


Jean will be kept phased by Kitty rendering the almighty speedblitz useless. Jean then will erect forcefields and mind control Pietro to kill his teammates saving the brunt of the work from her team.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
its easy to say 'oh she will just do this' but thats not how the x-men operate, they dont just send in their big gun and sit back and wont do it unless they think its needed.

You haven't read Ultimate X-Men lately have you? The scenario I'm suggesting is something they've already done already. They send Jean in first because she's the opening.

Whether against the Magician or Magneto, Jean always gives the opening salvo and the rest of the X-Men start picking off. Her power upgrade speaks testament of this.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
which they wont. as is given their last encounter with the ultimates colosuss will be slated to handle thor, who when serious as shown with his fights in Ultimate Power and against his own team is if not as strong or stronger but has the advantage on his range of powers.


Colossus can stalemate Thor for a while for the rest of Ultimates to be struck down enmasse.

Then the X-Men can dogpile the poor SOB. He isn't as durable as 616 Thor. Hell, a flamethrower burned off his hair....

Originally posted by SevenShackles
in all seriousness he could rain lighting down on everyone causing massive damage and distracting/panicing the X-men making the ultimates work all the easier.


And Storm can't do that same?

Seriously, they aren't amateurs.

The X-Men's roster is simply too big and powerful.

Hell, Rogue now has the ability to "mimic" abilities rather than absorb them.

She can copy Colossus's skin in conjunction with Jean's powers....

Beast
Colossus
Cyclops
Iceman
Marvel Girl
Shadowcat
Wolverine

those are the X-men in this thread. iv seen Storm mentioned more than once. please remember who is actually in this fight or its just gonna get sloppy.

Originally posted by Draco69

This is a forum-match. ALL of them are bloodlusted.


ill try to find the time to reply to the rest. but i was under the impression it had to be stated. he doesnt mention bloodlust in the set up and im working off the basic characters, in character. working at their best.

which to me, sending in hawkeye and nick fury with prep mean 'kill them all' , as x-men with prep mean 'KO' mind you id find this to be a different fight with a different X-men roster.

ultimates look like all-stars, and X-men fall a little short beside the one character you keep mentioning who with what you say seems able to solo the ultimates for the most partO-o

Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor was affected by Loki's illusions at first, but was able to resist them later on.

Which doesn't prove resistance to telepathy.

- Originally posted by llagrok
Does the Hulk know that he has a particular weakness that makes him turn back into Banner? I don't think so.

The Cerebro acts as a psychic MRI. PLUS they have SHIELD files on the Hulk. They already practiced it out in the Danger Room.

- Originally posted by llagrok
Hawkeye isn't a speedster? He was pretty impressive when he managed to shoot 5 armed guards before they got him, when they were standing 10 inches away.

What street-leveler hasn't done that?



Are you suggesting Hawkeye has superspeed?

- Originally posted by llagrok
Survive Quicksilver's speedblitz? Have you seen how fast he is?

Which will be useless against a phased Jean. Plus Rogue has the power to "mimic" rather absorb powers now. She can copy Jean's and Kitty's/Peter's powers without weakening them now.

Than they'll have TWO damn psychics on the team.

Originally posted by llagrok
-Also, phasing Jean while she uses her telepathy or telekinesis? I've never seen them do that. It's a pretty basic strategy and seeing as they've never used it, it's reasonable to believe it won't work. Especially seeing as Emma was unable to take over Kitty's mind while she was being phased all the way down underground.

1) They've already done this on many occasions. Most recently against Future Cable's squad when they were lead by Bishop.

2) You haven't been reading Ult. X-Men.

3) Ult. Emma doesn't have telepathy. You're referring to Astonishing X-Men. In that reference, Kitty was phasing Emma through sheer rock. Emma wasn't going to take the gamble of having her brains merged with granite if Kitty resisted her telepathy.

4) Jean's powers work with Kitty



Originally posted by llagrok
-That was 616, but I'm pretty sure the same rules apply in the Ultimate universe.

Ultimate is a completely different animal from 616....

Originally posted by Draco69
Making last-minute rules to curry favor for the Ultimates is kinda pathetic.



First you said no forcefields, no you say no phasing.

What Cyclops can't use his blasts either...?

Yeah, I noticed that too...

Originally posted by SevenShackles
ill try to find the time to reply to the rest. but i was under the impression it had to be stated. he doesnt mention bloodlust in the set up and im working off the basic characters, in character. working at their best.

Forum rules specify bloodlust UNLESS specified NOT by the threadstarter in the opening post.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
which to me, sending in hawkeye and nick fury with prep mean 'kill them all' , as x-men with prep mean 'KO' mind you id find this to be a different fight with a different X-men roster.

They only have five minutes....



They won't even have time to converse with Nick Fury or make a workable strategy.

Whereas the X-Men have literally an hour.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
ultimates look like all-stars, and X-men fall a little short beside the one character you keep mentioning who with what you say seems able to solo the ultimates for the most partO-o

The Ultimates have only four threats that will give the X-Men problems:

Thor
Iron-Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver.

The X-Men? Everyone's a threat. They have no weak links. Except maybe Beast but his tech contributions with prep-time make up for that fact.

Jean can quite literally solo most if not all the Ultimates.

Draco69 do yourself a favor and try not to mention X-men not in this thread it takes away from what your saying.

need to prove THIS team of x-men can win with or without your jean offensive =/ or your case is just sorta dead.

Originally posted by Draco69
Forum rules specify bloodlust UNLESS specified NOT by the threadstarter in the opening post.



They only have five minutes....



They won't even have time to converse with Nick Fury or make a workable strategy.

Whereas the X-Men have literally an hour.


Nick Fury is like one liner prep master "Kill them all, hit um hard, fast" doesnt take long to get hawkeye in a hiding spot in a building somewhere out of sight with a sniper rifle, as it doesnt take him that long to get off three shots. 1- beast, 2-cyclops 3- x-men of his choice

fury is trained for such thing, hell if he can handle snakes on a plane i think he can handle the x-men

alot will be happening from the ultimates in the opening of the fight, lightning capable of destroying ships pounding down on them should be enough to distractr jean if not kill/hurt/panic the rest of the x-men, Ironman's speed and weapons he can hit and run, not to meniton quicksilver and hawkeye with his rifle. Cap going straight for wolverine and scarlet witch increasing the chances of the ultimates victory, and in the mayhem who remembers wasp? colossus maybe when she turns his eyes from the otherside, or just shut him down. if not someone else.

prep rocks.



Hawkeye is a threat, honestly jean is supposed to handle offensive/defensive controling and shutting minds down while deflecting bullets and arrows all in the same time ?
plus i was under the impression this was like weapon X jean or something given the roster of x-men.

wasp has the element of surprise and in the ultimates has a think with shooting peoples brains which im sure can be turned into something fatal.

nick fury.. given the restrictions on the x-men's prep i doubt he could do it but with 1 min prep he could set up a backup team ready to drop the hulk ontop of the x-men if not the reserves.

knew you thought that.

Originally posted by Draco69
There's no such thing as the Phoenix Force in Ultimate Universe.

It was concluded that the "Phoenix Force" is simply Jean's powers. She imagines green goblins to cope with the enormous immensity of her powers.



You gave them an hour prep. What else can't they do with it?

Making last-minute rules to curry favor for the Ultimates is kinda pathetic.



First you said no forcefields, no you say no phasing.

What Cyclops can't use his blasts either...? Then this is her without the mad power up Regular most seen Jean. Classic.

No...its not. I said no equipment to stop Iron Man having an advantage or Fury bring anything to big, he gets a rifle or something.

No Shields are up. They go over how they win, did you actually read anything on here?

Advantages?

I took away Fury's extra equipment. Iron Man equipment, (his amour comes obviously) and whatever else they carry.

I made Jean classic levels and them 1 hour while Ultimates have 5 minutes, this all happens so they can think of a plan and not start with Shields up or anything.

Now tell me. Who has the advantage? It was implied I thought that np Shields.....

Where did I say they can take a big study of the enemy's, they have standard knowledge and have to think of how to beat them within the prep time. What I said they get. Not all the stuff your saying.

They do NOT get Cerebeo. They get each other as prep, they decide what they will do.

What I SAID they get.

Pathetic? Its pathetic giving them stuff I said they don't get. If you read they use the prep how I say. No other way.

Iceman not impressive in Ultimates?
http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar04180pp.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar04198ec.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar04204yd.jpg

Then theres the in the future hero worship he gets by Bishop and all his other future people encounters.

Anyways TP for the win

She wont get the chance. Everyone says this but no one is giving me a good reason why she will be given to chance to do so.

past jean wheres the threat of the x-men?

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Then this is her without the mad power up Regular most seen Jean. Classic.

No...its not. I said no equipment to stop Iron Man having an advantage or Fury bring anything to big, he gets a rifle or something.

No Shields are up. They go over how they win, did you actually read anything on here?

Advantages?

I took away Fury's extra equipment. Iron Man equipment, (his amour comes obviously) and whatever else they carry.

I made Jean classic levels and them 1 hour while Ultimates have 5 minutes, this all happens so they can think of a plan and not start with Shields up or anything.

Now tell me. Who has the advantage? It was implied I thought that np Shields.....

Where did I say they can take a big study of the enemy's, they have standard knowledge and have to think of how to beat them within the prep time. What I said they get. Not all the stuff your saying.

They do NOT get Cerebeo. They get each other as prep, they decide what they will do.

What I SAID they get.

Pathetic? Its pathetic giving them stuff I said they don't get. If you read they use the prep how I say. No other way.

No. You're currying favor to the Ultimates. You're delibrately detracting viable strategies that give the X-Men the edge.

And there IS no "Classic Jean".

Ult. Jean has always been Phoenix. There is no Force. There is no cosmic firebird.

The Phoenix Force is really just her powers.

X-3 Jean was based off Ult. Jean. It's part of her mutation.

Was she using that much power back in the early days? No she wasn't.

If they gets shields up that is starting before the match, I said what is happening in the prep, I didn't say they were allowed to start before it happened. So no I am not being unfair. If we allowed that we could allow something similar from IM.

What strategies have I taken away that are so unfair? Oh yeah, getting everyone ready and prepared, they get to think and plan what they will do. Soon as it starts shields fine but not before speedblitz.

Sounds like your doing what your accusing me of but with X-Men.

Every advantage is to them but I am unfair??

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Nick Fury is like one liner prep master "Kill them all, hit um hard, fast" doesnt take long to get hawkeye in a hiding spot in a building somewhere out of sight with a sniper rifle, as it doesnt take him that long to get off three shots. 1- beast, 2-cyclops 3- x-men of his choice

Which Jean will know where he is via telepathy.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
alot will be happening from the ultimates in the opening of the fight, lightning capable of destroying ships pounding down on them should be enough to distractr jean if not kill/hurt/panic the rest of the x-men, Ironman's speed and weapons he can hit and run, not to meniton quicksilver and hawkeye with his rifle. Cap going straight for wolverine and scarlet witch increasing the chances of the ultimates victory, and in the mayhem who remembers wasp? colossus maybe when she turns his eyes from the otherside, or just shut him down. if not someone else.

My strategy is much simpler and much more effective:

Kitty holds Jean's hand prior to the battle.

Jean erects a forcefield that has withstood a 100 nukes.

Jean mentally shuts down the Ultimates and uses a select few for mind-control.

The battle is over.




Originally posted by SevenShackles
prep rocks.

Yes, it does.

How you think 5 minutes of prep is more advantageous than an hour I'll never know...



Originally posted by SevenShackles
Hawkeye is a threat, honestly jean is supposed to handle offensive/defensive controling and shutting minds down while deflecting bullets and arrows all in the same time ?
plus i was under the impression this was like weapon X jean or something given the roster of x-men.

Jean's a one-man army. She once battled the entire Brotherhood to a standstill. Magento included.

All Jean has to do is first erect a forcefield than second mindf*ck the Ultimates.

That's two thoughts. All it takes.


Originally posted by SevenShackles
wasp has the element of surprise and in the ultimates has a think with shooting peoples brains which im sure can be turned into something fatal.

Wasp is rather useless. Any of the X-Men can take her out. Besides she's gonna mindscrewed with the rest of them.


Originally posted by SevenShackles
nick fury.. given the restrictions on the x-men's prep i doubt he could do it but with 1 min prep he could set up a backup team ready to drop the hulk ontop of the x-men if not the reserves.

That's both ridiculous and wishful thinking.

One minute? Can you comprehend 60 seconds?

Nick Fury wouldn't be able to perform such a complicated strategy under one minute.....

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
She wont get the chance. Everyone says this but no one is giving me a good reason why she will be given to chance to do so.

We've already given the reason.

You acted like a fanboy and deflected the reason stating it "wasn't allowed".

An hour of prep and they can't even hold hands or build a forcefield?

looks like a team from the weapon X arc, in which jeans powers weren't to the level as they are in the current comics. that is the jean he is using more or less. thats that. pretty much he just sculpted this to actually be a real fight. things dont need to be stacked in anothers favor for the x-men to lose. just deal with it. debate it along the guidlines laid out.

and on the subject of force field, its ruled out being up beforehand, but can she raise one during the conflict?

Originally posted by Draco69
We've already given the reason.

You acted like a fanboy and deflected the reason stating it "wasn't allowed".

An hour of prep and they can't even hold hands or build a forcefield?

Like I said in my very first post.

They plan what they will do. They plan it, not do it.

Your the fanboy. I give you the fair stipulations and you can't handle it.

Point to me all my wrong doings then...

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Was she using that much power back in the early days? No she wasn't.

She's been using this amount of power for oh, 80 issues.

Repeat, there is no "Classic Jean".

Jean has always been Phoenix. She simply got more skilled with her powers.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
If they gets shields up that is starting before the match, I said what is happening in the prep, I didn't say they were allowed to start before it happened. So no I am not being unfair. If we allowed that we could allow something similar from IM.

That's what prep is. Prep specifically means they can strategize, plan their assaults and bolster their defenses prior to the battle.

A simple strategy, which you won't approve because it isn't "fair", everyone holds hands with Kitty Pryde.

The opening salvo goes right through them and Jean has more than enough time to erect a forcefield and begin her mental assault.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
What strategies have I taken away that are so unfair? Oh yeah,

Kitty apparently can't hold hands with Jean....?

Originally posted by SevenShackles
looks like a team from the weapon X arc, in which jeans powers weren't to the level as they are in the current comics. that is the jean he is using more or less. thats that. pretty much he just sculpted this to actually be a real fight. things dont need to be stacked in anothers favor for the x-men to lose. just deal with it. debate it along the guidlines laid out.

and on the subject of force field, its ruled out being up beforehand, but can she raise one during the conflict? Hell yes, as soon as it beginnings. But QS is to fast. Then its up to the rest.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
looks like a team from the weapon X arc, in which jeans powers weren't to the level as they are in the current comics. that is the jean he is using more or less. thats that. pretty much he just sculpted this to actually be a real fight.

Jesus Christ, that storyline was six years ago. None of you have even bothered to keep up with the book.

All the X-Men have grown more powerful and more experienced with age.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
and on the subject of force field, its ruled out being up beforehand, but can she raise one during the conflict?

Sure. While Kitty phases her.

I'm not arguing with the stipulations so much the stupidity of them.

I bring up forcefields.

OP says no forcefields.

I bring up phasing.

OP says no phasing.

Originally posted by Draco69
She's been using this amount of power for oh, 80 issues.

Repeat, there is no "Classic Jean".

Jean has always been Phoenix. She simply got more skilled with her powers.



That's what prep is. Prep specifically means they can strategize, plan their assaults and bolster their defenses prior to the battle.

A simple strategy, which you won't approve because it isn't "fair", everyone holds hands with Kitty Pryde.

The opening salvo goes right through them and Jean has more than enough time to erect a forcefield and begin her mental assault.



Kitty apparently can't hold hands with Jean....?

I gave you My prep. Not all prep is the same you know.

Not when it means the entire opposite teams immobilized. I gave you the stipulations of the 55 minutes more prep they got, that means no preparing they're defenses. It happens during the match. When will you listen?

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Hell yes, as soon as it beginnings. But QS is to fast. Then its up to the rest.

*sigh*

Kitty holds hands with Jean and the rest of the X-Men.

Quicksilver passes through a gaggle of ghosts.

Jean erects a forcefield for added protection.

Jean begins mentally assaulting the other team.

It's really that simple.

Originally posted by Draco69
Jesus Christ, that storyline was six years ago. None of you have even bothered to keep up with the book.

All the X-Men have grown more powerful and more experienced with age.



Sure. While Kitty phases her.

I'm not arguing with the stipulations so much the stupidity of them.

I bring up forcefields.

OP says no forcefields.

I bring up phasing.

OP says no phasing.



Yes no phasing, no force fields...BEFORE the match begins. Whats wrong with that for Christs sake.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
I gave you My prep. Not all prep is the same you know.

Not when it means the entire opposite teams immobilized. I gave you the stipulations of the 55 minutes more prep they got, that means no preparing they're defenses. It happens during the match. When will you listen?

They're not preparing defenses then. They're just holding hands.

Like a family. A phased family.

Originally posted by Draco69
Jesus Christ, that storyline was six years ago. None of you have even bothered to keep up with the book.

All the X-Men have grown more powerful and more experienced with age.



Sure. While Kitty phases her.

I'm not arguing with the stipulations so much the stupidity of them.

I bring up forcefields.

OP says no forcefields.

I bring up phasing.

OP says no phasing.



Like I said this is classic X-Men meaning not all amped up. I like how they were before better. Here it comes, biased, biased, biased I assume.

Originally posted by Draco69
They're not preparing defenses then. They're just holding hands.

Like a family. A phased family.

Using her power is the defense. Which is not allowed.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Like I said this is classic X-Men meaning not all amped up. I like how they were before better. Here it comes, biased, biased, biased I assume.

There is no "classic" X-Men.



What on Earth are you talking about?

None of them are amped up. More skilled? Yes. Amped? No.

Except for Rogue who got Gambit's powers.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Using her power is the defense. Which is not allowed.

She's not using her powers. She's holding hands with her team.

Early X-Men, not amped. Classic...

Originally posted by Draco69
She's not using her powers. She's holding hands with her team.

Fine she holds her hands, but no phasing before the match.

Then speedblitz and she gets no chance.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Early X-Men, not amped. Classic... Anyway she wont get the chance.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Early X-Men, not amped. Classic...

You're a simpleton.

NONE of them are amped.

They are simply more skilled with their powers.

The ONLY character who got "amped" was Rogue who now has Gambits' powers.

There is no such thing as a "classic" Ultimate X-Men.

Originally posted by Draco69
You're a simpleton.

WTF dude?

Apologize this instant.

btw iv missed only about four issues maybe cuz of work. im more up to date than the damn weapon X arc. but get serious, your telling me someone can use Classic captain atom from over four years ago, or pre-crisis mongul and not catch shit for it, but cuz this guy wants to use a less exp jean from the Ultimate x-men its stupid?

and stop nit pickin on the way he word it, 'classic'. we both know he ment the less exp version.

and AGAIN ill ask, beyond jean can they do anything!? for the sake of argument can you even think of anything? or are they that obviously out matched the only way for them to win is if the current more exp jean is allowed into this fight?

What did I say? EARLY. Not amped as it power up but as in before they all become more powerful than they were early on.

Simple? Resort to the insults if you wish. It just shows how pathetic you truly are.

Originally posted by Validus
WTF dude?

Apologize this instant. Exactly. We disagree on something and he gets all pissy.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
btw iv missed only about four issues maybe cuz of work. im more up to date than the damn weapon X arc. but get serious, your telling me someone can use Classic captain atom from over four years ago, or pre-crisis mongul and not catch shit for it, but cuz this guy wants to use a less exp jean from the Ultimate x-men its stupid?

None of them are amped. None of them went through changes. They're still wearing the damn same costumes.

There's no such thing as "Classic". He'd have to specify the exact issues for the X-Men to appear.

Not to mention several of the X-Men on the list didn't even appear during the earliest issues.


Originally posted by SevenShackles
and AGAIN ill ask, beyond jean can they do anything!? for the sake of argument can you even think of anything? or are they that obviously out matched the only way for them to win is if the current more exp jean is allowed into this fight?

Actually Jean's pretty much their linchpin. If they had the Magician though they'd curbstomp

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
What did I say? EARLY. Not amped as it power up but as in before they all become more powerful than they were early on.

Define "early"?

Issues 1-6?

14-25?

40-66?

Please.

There's no such thing as "Classic" X-Men.

None of them are amped.

Now if you define, say Ultimate X-Men based on their appearances only in issues #1-6, than that would make more sense.

Saying "early" is vague and out of context.

Originally posted by Validus
WTF dude?

Apologize this instant.

The Chicago Bears will never win a Superbowl and you know it.

She wont get the chance which I have specified.

Issue numbers? Fine up to 20, 25? Will that stop your insulting??

Originally posted by Draco69
The Chicago Bears will never win a Superbowl and you know it.


The line has been crossed.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/report.gif

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
She wont get the chance which I have specified.

Issue numbers? Fine up to 20, 25? Will that stop your insulting??

Bad arc.

Jean was in Dark Phoenix mode.

She was warping reality on a telekinetic scale....

Originally posted by Validus
The line has been crossed.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/report.gif

Its been years since I read them, I just used an early issue.

Issue 16 any better????

Originally posted by Draco69
None of them are amped. None of them went through changes. They're still wearing the damn same costumes.

There's no such thing as "Classic". He'd have to specify the exact issues for the X-Men to appear.

Not to mention several of the X-Men on the list didn't even appear during the earliest issues.




Actually Jean's pretty much their linchpin. If they had the Magician though they'd curbstomp

stop the nit-pickin. seriously its annoying dont harp on one word.
wtf? several? as i recall all of them took part in weapon X arc.

does it matter? the only character really effected by this is your little jean.. and her limits are of the earlier issues. so no matter what issue she is not at the level you want her to be at. so they lose. she loses.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Its been years since I read them, I just used an early issue.

Issue 16 any better????

Jean's still Phoenix....

Shes not at that level in that issue.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
stop the nit-pickin. seriously its annoying dont harp on one word.
wtf? several? as i recall all of them took part in weapon X arc.

does it matter? the only character really effected by this is your little jean.. and her limits are of the earlier issues. so no matter what issue she is not at the level you want her to be at. so they lose. she loses.

I'm beginning to think you've only read the Weapon X arc since you've only mentioned that arc...



And no, Shadowcat arrived AFTER Weapon X. A year later in fact.

It DOES matter. Jean is single-handidly capable of changing the course of the battle.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Shes not at that level in that issue.

Did you miss the flames and the green goblins dancing around her?

Speedblitz......shes not at that level in this battle so she is not.

Originally posted by Draco69
Jean's still Phoenix....

well you sorta made the point that its like the movie..so wouldnt it be safe to say shes been the pheonix before the age she appeared in the comic? or some crap like that. doesnt matter really.

Originally posted by Draco69
Did you miss the flames and the green goblins dancing around her?

Where??? Are we talking about the same comic here???

Originally posted by SevenShackles
well you sorta made the point that its like the movie..so wouldnt it be safe to say shes been the pheonix before the age she appeared in the comic? or some crap like that. doesnt matter really.

She's always been the Phoenix. She never wasn't.

It's exactly like the movie.

The Phoenix is simply part of her mutation....and her mental delusions at that.

Yet she doesn't use it. She doesn't know shes that powerful, she isn't yet....

Originally posted by Draco69
I'm beginning to think you've only read the Weapon X arc since you've only mentioned that arc...



And no, Shadowcat arrived AFTER Weapon X. A year later in fact.

It DOES matter. Jean is single-handidly capable of changing the course of the battle.

actually i just want beast to be blue i dont like normal beast.
but no honestly it was my favorite and the team instantly made me think of the arc. i dont pay her much mind after hookin up with spiderman and all that crap. i prefer the mainstream shadowcat so cant blame me for overlooking her.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
actually i just want beast to be blue i dont like normal beast.
but no honestly it was my favorite and the team instantly made me think of the arc. i dont pay her much mind after hookin up with spiderman and all that crap. i prefer the mainstream shadowcat so cant blame me for overlooking her.

The Shadowcat/Spider-Man ship was RETARDED.

Never speak of it again!



And Beast is blue again. And alive.

I loved it.

I prefer them over MJ and Pete.

Originally posted by Draco69
She's always been the Phoenix. She never wasn't.

It's exactly like the movie.

The Phoenix is simply part of her mutation....and her mental delusions at that.

yup so saying shes still the pheonix does nothing but discredit you and your statement that this is just not all some fanboys rants.

hell i can call and develop a personality called the bluejay, i can some years down the line turn into a giant blue jay and command a flock. means nothing right now. just like with jean. she is the pheonix. has the potential to do alot, and currently is showing it. but now. in this thread. she has the potential but hasnt tapped into it and i doubt her hour of prep will open her up to the exstent of her powers.

bend to my logic!


anything is better than that...well almost anything =D

Originally posted by SevenShackles
yup so saying shes still the pheonix does nothing but discredit you and your statement that this is just not all some fanboys rants.

hell i can call and develop a personality called the bluejay, i can some years down the line turn into a giant blue jay and command a flock. means nothing right now. just like with jean. she is the pheonix. has the potential to do alot, and currently is showing it. but now. in this thread. she has the potential but hasnt tapped into it and i doubt her hour of prep will open her up to the exstent of her powers.

bend to my logic!

Ultimate X-men win this. Ultimate War is a good example of why. All the Ultimates had to do was capture the X-men, not even kill them they had SHIELD agents to back them up and cheated by using Telepathic dampeners, Cyclops wasn't even there. Even with all this they only caught Charlie Xavier cos he let them to save his own students

Don't get me wrong, I love Ultimates, waaayyy cooler than Ultimate X-men, but in this fight the Muties take it

Originally posted by willRules
Ultimate X-men win this. Ultimate War is a good example of why. All the Ultimates had to do was capture the X-men, not even kill them they had SHIELD agents to back them up and cheated by using Telepathic dampeners, Cyclops wasn't even there. Even with all this they only caught Charlie Xavier cos he let them to save his own students

Don't get me wrong, I love Ultimates, waaayyy cooler than Ultimate X-men, but in this fight the Muties take it So your argument for them winning is they failed to capture them n the comics.

Originally posted by willRules
Ultimate X-men win this. Ultimate War is a good example of why. All the Ultimates had to do was capture the X-men, not even kill them they had SHIELD agents to back them up and cheated by using Telepathic dampeners, Cyclops wasn't even there. Even with all this they only caught Charlie Xavier cos he let them to save his own students

Don't get me wrong, I love Ultimates, waaayyy cooler than Ultimate X-men, but in this fight the Muties take it

alright that was something different. they tried to capture them. this is life and death, they dont need to hold back and its a much more straight forward setting.

so please answer the question someone else couldnt. HOW do these X-Men win?