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Do you know anyone who has.

A lot of people believe they do. I know a girl who believes she can read auras. What do you think?

nope. not at all. although i have known people who very probably did.

Nah. Not been proven to be possible, so no one has.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Nah. Not been proven to be possible, so no one has.

The CIA believe in it, don't they?

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Mind_Control_Star_Gate.html

no, the cia doesn't

no, your friends don't have them

no, they don't exist

Yes. Why do you ask?

Originally posted by inimalist
no, the cia doesn't

no, your friends don't have them

no, they don't exist
CIA-Initiated Remote Viewing At Stanford Research Institute

by H. E. Puthoff, Ph.D.
Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin
4030 Braker Lane W., #300
Austin, Texas 78759-5329


Abstract - In July 1995 the CIA declassified, and approved for release, documents revealing its sponsorship in the 1970s of a program at Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, CA, to determine whether such phenomena as remote viewing "might have any utility for intelligence collection" . Thus began disclosure to the public of a two-decade-plus involvement of the intelligence community in the investigation of so-called parapsychological or psi phenomena. Presented here by the program's Founder and first Director (1972 - 1985) is the early history of the program, including discussion of some of the first, now declassified, results that drove early interest.

Introduction

On April 17, 1995, President Clinton issued Executive Order Nr. 1995-4-17, entitled Classified National Security Information. Although in one sense the order simply reaffirmed much of what has been long-standing policy, in another sense there was a clear shift toward more openness. In the opening paragraph, for example, we read: "In recent years, however, dramatic changes have altered, although not eliminated, the national security threats that we confront. These changes provide a greater opportunity to emphasize our commitment to open Government." In the Classification Standards section of the Order this commitment is operationalized by phrases such as "If there is significant doubt about the need to classify information, it shall not be classified." Later in the document, in reference to information that requires continued protection, there even appears the remarkable phrase "In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified."

A major fallout of this reframing of attitude toward classification is that there is enormous pressure on those charged with maintaining security to work hard at being responsive to reasonable requests for disclosure. One of the results is that FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) requests that have languished for months to years are suddenly being acted upon.1

One outcome of this change in policy is the government's recent admission of its two-decade-plus involvement in funding highly-classified, special access programs in remote viewing (RV) and related psi phenomena, first at Stanford Research Institute (SRI) and then at Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC), both in Menlo Park, CA, supplemented by various in-house government programs. Although almost all of the documentation remains yet classified, in July 1995 270 pages of SRI reports were declassified and released by the CIA, the program's first sponsor . Thus, although through the years columns by Jack Anderson and others had claimed leaks of "psychic spy" programs with such exotic names as Grill Flame, Center Lane, Sunstreak and Star Gate, CIA's release of the SRI reports constitutes the first documented public admission of significant intelligence community involvement in the psi area.

As a consequence of the above, although I had founded the program in early 1972, and had acted as its Director until I left in 1985 to head up the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin (at which point my colleague Ed May assumed responsibility as Director), it was not until 1995 that I found myself for the first time able to utter in a single sentence the connected acronyms CIA/SRI/RV. In this report I discuss the genesis of the program, report on some of the early, now declassified, results that drove early interest, and outline the general direction the program took as it expanded into a multi-year, multi-site, multi-million-dollar effort to determine whether such phenomena as remote viewing "might have any utility for intelligence collection" .

http://www.remoteviewinghistory.com/cia-remote-viewing-at-stanford-research-institute.html




How do you know my friends don't?

I thought I had telekinesis when I was little, but I then realized that when a window is open, the wind closes the door.

Originally posted by Zebedee
How do you know my friends don't?

He saw it in your aura.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He saw it in your aura.

Interesting!

Originally posted by SelphieT
I thought I had telekinesis when I was little, but I then realized that when a window is open, the wind closes the door.

You don't think you were merely trying to find a rational explanation for something you couldn't explain.

No, I don't.

Regards, Yvonne

Originally posted by yvonnekarate
No, I don't.

Regards, Yvonne


Can you channel Chi though Yvonne?

I have clarivoyant flashes in my head that predict (mostly bad) things to happen...

Haven't had them in a while though...

Don't know, haven't really tried. I believe there's something in ying and yang though, but I won't say that gives me telepathic og telekinetic powers.

Regards, Yvonne

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html



really, if you or your friends think you have psychic powers, you don't. Go seek medical help

Originally posted by Zebedee
You don't think you were merely trying to find a rational explanation for something you couldn't explain.

Eh......I'm pretty sure it was the wind.

And I'm pretty sure it was the wind that killed all the students at prom as well.

Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html



really, if you or your friends think you have psychic powers, you don't. Go seek medical help

what if its true?

and the cia does beleive in it. that is for sure.

Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html



really, if you or your friends think you have psychic powers, you don't. Go seek medical help

What if it's part of their religion? shifty

Originally posted by leonheartmm
what if its true?

and the cia does beleive in it. that is for sure. They certainly do, don't they?
Originally posted by inimalist




really, if you or your friends think you have psychic powers, you don't. Go seek medical help

Why they might test us in a secret lab.


Originally posted by SelphieT

Eh......I'm pretty sure it was the wind.

And I'm pretty sure it was the wind that killed all the students at prom as well.

The wind is always a good excuse.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What if it's part of their religion? shifty


What indeed?

If I had telekinetic powers I wouldn't be ON this site. I'd be choking some bitches....

Originally posted by leonheartmm
what if its true?

and the cia does beleive in it. that is for sure.

its not true and they don't

don't believe everything you read on the internet /sigh

Yep.

Clairvoyance.

Originally posted by inimalist
its not true and they don't

don't believe everything you read on the internet /sigh http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=CIA+remote+viewing&ei=UTF-8&fr=cb-hp06

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
Yep.

Clairvoyance.


What did you experience?

Ive seen a few events before they happened, can leave my body, have seen demons and can see with my eyes shut sometimes. Probably not telepathic but nevertheless weird stuff.

Originally posted by SelphieT
Eh......I'm pretty sure it was the wind.

And I'm pretty sure it was the wind that killed all the students at prom as well.

Wait! Was that a Carrie reference? -head shake-

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Ive seen a few events before they happened, can leave my body, have seen demons and can see with my eyes shut sometimes. Probably not telepathic but nevertheless weird stuff.

Do you consider your gifts a blessing or a curse?

I would be so scared if I saw a demon! You mean like seeing stuff out of your body?

Yes. I know what many of you are thinking right now. shifty

I've also once went outside my body and started yelling at myself to wake up.

Total spazzfest.

Wow, it's interesting. I don't know if such a power or ability exists but if it does, I think it's very, very rare, and only a small percent of people who believe they have it do actually have it. (Again, assuming if it exists.)
Then again, why do freaky things always happen to freaky people?

Hey! I'm not freaky!

Well, I think it's because of a certain state of mind before the event happens in which influences it. Or an emotion that triggers the effect.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
I've also once went outside my body and started yelling at myself to wake up.

Total spazzfest.

That must have been so scary. Were you looking down on yourself?
Did you think you were dead?

There are a bunch of scientific explanations to out-of-body experiences, but I know that painfully naive people and crazy theories will always outnumber them.

Originally posted by Dulcie
There are a bunch of scientific explanations to out-of-body experiences, but I know that painfully naive people and crazy theories will always outnumber them.

Please tell us about the scientific explanations Dulcie.

I was looking down at myself, and I was screaming 'Wake the **** up dear child!!!!' to myself. and I thought I was dead.

I tried walking, butit felt like comething was chaining me to the ground cuz I ws supposed to wake myself up.

Like muscular weakness?

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
I was looking down at myself, and I was screaming 'Wake the **** up dear child!!!!' to myself. and I thought I was dead.

I tried walking, butit felt like comething was chaining me to the ground cuz I ws supposed to wake myself up.

Were you dreaming, do you think Sol?

Originally posted by Dulcie
Like muscular weakness?

So how does muscular weakness lead to an "out of body" experience Dulcie?

What do you do when you wake up and can't move? You panic. And if you ever had a panic attack you know that you can see anything during that time.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
I was looking down at myself, and I was screaming 'Wake the **** up dear child!!!!' to myself. and I thought I was dead.

I tried walking, butit felt like comething was chaining me to the ground cuz I ws supposed to wake myself up.

that is a very well understood phenomena called sleep paralysis

all psychic phenomena is merely the misinterpretation of normally mundane psychological activity.

Originally posted by inimalist
that is a very well understood phenomena called sleep paralysis

all psychic phenomena is merely the misinterpretation of normally mundane psychological activity.

You can prove that, can you? The CIA believed in it,

Originally posted by inimalist
its not true and they don't

don't believe everything you read on the internet /sigh

it is true and they do. ocourse, that is my personal expirience and logically shudnt stand as evidence for the world.

as for the second part, i dont, but i am also sure about what i have said.

Originally posted by Dulcie
What do you do when you wake up and can't move? You panic. And if you ever had a panic attack you know that you can see anything during that time.


I see, so you think panic attacks can cause out of body experiences do you have a link to a paper theorising this Dulcie?

Originally posted by inimalist
that is a very well understood phenomena called sleep paralysis

all psychic phenomena is merely the misinterpretation of normally mundane psychological activity.

i agree for the most part on the first point. same goes for the second point. most are fakes. but there are the rare exceptions.

Originally posted by Zebedee
You can prove that, can you? The CIA believed in it,

prove which?

That people waking up in a state where they are unable to move accompanied by mild hallucination is a well understood phenomenon called sleep paralysis? Sure, of course I can.

Can I prove that any person who thinks they have psychic powers is wrong? Of course, find them and we can test them.

Yes, during the 1970s there was a huge surge in woo belief, and some idiots at the CIA got it into their head that the Russians were going to get a jump on them in psychic phenomena. The same way they believed that it was impossible for the Soviet Union to fall apart, and their collapsing economy and military was a ruse used to trick them, and that they really had super advanced technology. The CIA was dumb at this point.

Much like the CIA tests with LSD, the remote viewing was a catastrophe. You can read different stories on the internet if you want to, there is freedom of speech, but the simple fact is that the phenomena doesn't exist and remote viewers perform no better than chance.

Originally posted by inimalist
prove which?

That people waking up in a state where they are unable to move accompanied by mild hallucination is a well understood phenomenon called sleep paralysis? Sure, of course I can.

Can I prove that any person who thinks they have psychic powers is wrong? Of course, find them and we can test them.

Yes, during the 1970s there was a huge surge in woo belief, and some idiots at the CIA got it into their head that the Russians were going to get a jump on them in psychic phenomena. The same way they believed that it was impossible for the Soviet Union to fall apart, and their collapsing economy and military was a ruse used to trick them, and that they really had super advanced technology. The CIA was dumb at this point.

Much like the CIA tests with LSD, the remote viewing was a catastrophe. You can read different stories on the internet if you want to, there is freedom of speech, but the simple fact is that the phenomena doesn't exist and remote viewers perform no better than chance.

The CIA are supposedly still running Stargate.

Does sleep paralysis always have hallucinations related to it. Link to reputable paper please. So it took the CIA 20 years to show viewers perform no better than chance? O.K.

Can you prove all out of body experiences are unreal.

Originally posted by Zebedee
The CIA are supposedly still running Stargate.

don't believe everything you read on the internet. Apparently GW Bush is a shape shifting reptilian who eats babies

Originally posted by Zebedee
Does sleep paralysis always have hallucinations related to it. Link to reputable paper please.

no, not always, but there are many types of hallucinations that are associated with the states just before and after sleep states.

LOL, and you would know a reputable paper if it bit you in the ass?

Originally posted by Zebedee
So it took the CIA 20 years to show viewers perform no better than chance? O.K.

I dont know how long it lasted, but ya, total waste of tax payer money.

Do you think an insurgency could survive in Iraq if the army had remote viewers, LOL, think for a second please.

How different would the world be if the government could watch you with psychic powers

Originally posted by Zebedee
Can you prove all out of body experiences are unreal.

see above

Originally posted by Zebedee
I see, so you think panic attacks can cause out of body experiences do you have a link to a paper theorising this Dulcie?

I didn't say directly that panic attacks can cause OBE, it makes you see things, that covers OBE. I have my textbooks, I can scan them if you speak Hungarian. Unfortunately, I can't send you my brain which I made this conclusion with based on things I know.

So, all you need to believe that something's true is a link?

Originally posted by Zebedee
Notice the use of the words Suspects and Argue
This is also only an opinion. I would like to see empirical, definitive evidence to support these conclusions.

You do realise it's a theory?



"I report an illusion in which individuals experience that they are located outside their physical bodies and looking at their bodies from this perspective. This demonstrates that the experience of being localized within the physical body can be determined by the visual perspective in conjunction with correlated multisensory information from the body."

they did an experiment, they gave people out of body experiences

Originally posted by Dulcie
I didn't say directly that panic attacks can cause OBE, it makes you see things, that covers OBE. I have my textbooks, I can scan them if you speak Hungarian. Unfortunately, I can't send you my brain which I made this conclusion with based on things I know.

So, all you need to believe that something's true is a link?

Try sending your brain Dulcie. If we both concentrate really hard who knows what will happen. Hungarian girls are hot!

Originally posted by inimalist


"I report an illusion in which individuals experience that they are located outside their physical bodies and looking at their bodies from this perspective. This demonstrates that the experience of being localized within the physical body can be determined by the visual perspective in conjunction with correlated multisensory information from the body."

they did an experiment, they gave people out of body experiences

So how do we know these were true "out of body experiences" as they were created. Obviously by creating a false out of body experience you will get a false result.

Then of course observation in psychological experiments often affects the result or so the theory goes. In fact it goes for all experiments.

Originally posted by Zebedee
So how do we know these were true "out of body experiences" as they were created. Obviously by creating a false out of body experience you will get a false result.

Then of course observation in psychological experiments often affects the result or so the theory goes. In fact it goes for all experiments.

lol

so, you can keep whatever belief system you want. OBEs are a psychological phenomena. Psychic powers don't exist.

Oh, try not to say anything else about psychological experiments, you are horribly ignorant

Linking out-of-body experience and self processing to mental own-body imagery at the temporoparietal junction.

Blanke O, Mohr C, Michel CM, Pascual-Leone A, Brugger P, Seeck M, Landis T, Thut G.

Functional Brain Mapping Laboratory, Department of Neurology, University Hospital, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland. [email protected]

Journal of Neuroscience, 2005 Jan 19;25(3):550-7.

The spatial unity of self and body is challenged by various philosophical considerations and several phenomena, perhaps most notoriously the "out-of-body experience" (OBE) during which one's visual perspective and one's self are experienced to have departed from their habitual position within one's body. Although researchers started examining isolated aspects of the self, the neurocognitive processes of OBEs have not been investigated experimentally to further our understanding of the self. With the use of evoked potential mapping, we show the selective activation of the temporoparietal junction (TPJ) at 330-400 ms after stimulus onset when healthy volunteers imagined themselves in the position and visual perspective that generally are reported by people experiencing spontaneous OBEs. Interference with the TPJ by transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) at this time impaired mental transformation of one's own body in healthy volunteers relative to TMS over a control site. No such TMS effect was observed for imagined spatial transformations of external objects, suggesting the selective implication of the TPJ in mental imagery of one's own body. Finally, in an epileptic patient with OBEs originating from the TPJ, we show partial activation of the seizure focus during mental transformations of her body and visual perspective mimicking her OBE perceptions. These results suggest that the TPJ is a crucial structure for the conscious experience of the normal self, mediating spatial unity of self and body, and also suggest that impaired processing at the TPJ may lead to pathological selves such as OBEs.

dont beleive everything you read in the news. specially western media. insurgency ins practically non existant, more a myth than anything. the american government covertly perpetuates the war while making it seem like al-qaeda is responsible for everything bad in the world.

and i dunno how much significance it deserves. but uri geller said on aljazeera that the US found saddam hiding in that god forsaken ditch in the middle of nowhere by using remote viewers. ofcourse he is possibly a sham. but then again, he was tested and in emplyement of the cia and meets with world leaders etc and consults for the security agencies.



what makes u think they are not already watching?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
dont beleive everything you read in the news. specially western media. insurgency ins practically non existant, more a myth than anything. the american government covertly perpetuates the war while making it seem like al-qaeda is responsible for everything bad in the world.

and i dunno how much significance it deserves. but uri geller said on aljazeera that the US found saddam hiding in that god forsaken ditch in the middle of nowhere by using remote viewers. ofcourse he is possibly a sham. but then again, he was tested and in emplyement of the cia and meets with world leaders etc and consults for the security agencies.



what makes u think they are not already watching?

omfg, im arguing with conspiracy theorists and whackos

Originally posted by leonheartmm
dont beleive everything you read in the news. specially western media. insurgency ins practically non existant, more a myth than anything. the american government covertly perpetuates the war while making it seem like al-qaeda is responsible for everything bad in the world.

and i dunno how much significance it deserves. but uri geller said on aljazeera that the US found saddam hiding in that god forsaken ditch in the middle of nowhere by using remote viewers. ofcourse he is possibly a sham. but then again, he was tested and in emplyement of the cia and meets with world leaders etc and consults for the security agencies.



what makes u think they are not already watching?


Looks like someone forgot to take their meds.

I have weird feelings that I already knew sumthin was gonna happen.

Originally posted by inimalist
omfg, im arguing with conspiracy theorists and whackos

just so you know. i would only be considered a conspiracy theorist in america/canada/britian/france/australia/ parts of south korea/parts of mexico and maybe the scandanavian countries. the rest of the world knows what the superpowers are doing. labelling sumthin as a "conspiracy thory" is a nice political tool of crushing curiosity among people through social pressure, or questioning.

as for the wacko part, you are entitled to ur own oppinion. i am a sceptic beleive it or not. i just go by evidence.

Originally posted by Dulcie
Looks like someone forgot to take their meds.

if that was in reply to the anti american points, then its your brainwashing by the media thats talking. if it was reply to the psychic points, i can more than understand.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
just so you know. i would only be considered a conspiracy theorist in america/canada/britian/france/australia/ parts of south korea/parts of mexico and maybe the scandanavian countries.

So the only countries in the world with proper educational establishments, democracy, or a free media....

Sure, you would fit right in with the holocaust denying Iranians.

However, I wouldn't agree, because I don't think so little of the intellect of people in other parts of the world

Originally posted by inimalist
So the only countries in the world with proper educational establishments, democracy, or a free media....

Sure, you would fit right in with the holocaust denying Iranians.

However, I wouldn't agree, because I don't think so little of the intellect of people in other parts of the world

eductaion=true. however, do not forget that there are tons of other places which also hav just as "proper" educational establishments.

democracy= no no. the way democracy is seen in the west is choosing your dictater. there are laws which try and prevent them from doing wrong but those are neither followed completely norhave much to do with "democracy". the only candidates for a democratic system are rich powerful people with political influence, powerful allies and money enough to run their campaigns.

as far as iran goes. not all iranis are like that. many are and they are idiotic. however not even close to the tyrranical ruthlessly extremist israeli government which regularly murders innocent civilians, occupies land, keeps good human beings caged up like animals and commits humanitarian atrocities on a regular basis.

as for the rest of iran{the greater majority which generally goes unheard by the western media}. they only really wear the hijaab in the streets. hell go to tehran, the second women get inside, they rip off the over garment and most wear miniskirts and are extremely liberal/party animals{hard to beleive but true}. infact i wud say there are almost as many parties in developed iran as europe. its just not outside. for most people, the rules of the ayatollah are there because they feal some guilt, similar to what a partying catholic in college woudl feal. doesnt stop em from partying but he still goes to church from time to time to repent{just like they wear the veil to eleviate the sumwhat guilty conciounce}. but even that is going out of favour these days as people become less relegious.

and you talk as if bush isnt an extremist christian or america isnt filled with extremist. seeing as over 40% of americans beleive the earth is less than 4000 years old, i dont see the difference.

fact is, good and bad people exist everywhere. but only those in power can make themselves look like they are specofically good and the wrest of the world completely bad for their own gains.

lol

I'm calling it

Time of thread death: 4:17

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

so, you can keep whatever belief system you want. OBEs are a psychological phenomena. Psychic powers don't exist.

Oh, try not to say anything else about psychological experiments, you are horribly ignorant

Linking out-of-body experience and self processing to mental own-body imagery at the temporoparietal junction.

Blanke O, Mohr C, Michel CM, Pascual-Leone A, Brugger P, Seeck M, Landis T, Thut G.

Functional Brain Mapping Laboratory, Department of Neurology, University Hospital, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland. [email protected]

Journal of Neuroscience, 2005 Jan 19;25(3):550-7.

The spatial unity of self and body is challenged by various philosophical considerations and several phenomena, perhaps most notoriously the "out-of-body experience" (OBE) during which one's visual perspective and one's self are experienced to have departed from their habitual position within one's body. Although researchers started examining isolated aspects of the self, the neurocognitive processes of OBEs have not been investigated experimentally to further our understanding of the self. With the use of evoked potential mapping, we show the selective activation of the temporoparietal junction (TPJ) at 330-400 ms after stimulus onset when healthy volunteers imagined themselves in the position and visual perspective that generally are reported by people experiencing spontaneous OBEs. Interference with the TPJ by transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) at this time impaired mental transformation of one's own body in healthy volunteers relative to TMS over a control site. No such TMS effect was observed for imagined spatial transformations of external objects, suggesting the selective implication of the TPJ in mental imagery of one's own body. Finally, in an epileptic patient with OBEs originating from the TPJ, we show partial activation of the seizure focus during mental transformations of her body and visual perspective mimicking her OBE perceptions. These results suggest that the TPJ is a crucial structure for the conscious experience of the normal self, mediating spatial unity of self and body, and also suggest that impaired processing at the TPJ may lead to pathological selves such as OBEs.

As I stated it's giving results based on the criteria they are using. It doesn't explain the 24 Year American military remote viewing program.

http://www.psiexplorer.com/stargate.htm

Notice the words suggesting and observed. It's a theory, based on the criteria set for the experiment.

Do I know better than getting into this, sure I do.
Do I have anything better to do right now, of course.
Am I going to be mature and just ignore all this, **** no.

So, here is where we are. Posted as proof of Remote viewings or whatever:

1) http://www.subversiveelement.com/Mi..._Star_Gate.html
-The title of the webpage is "mind control home" which should instantly discredit it as a valid or objective source.
-It contains the phrase right at the end -> "The final recommendations of the AIR (American Institute of Research) was to terminate the Stargate project. CIA concluded that there was no case in which ESP had been used to guide intelligence operations."
-Even the most rosy coloured analysis of the data showed a 15% success rate for the people who were supposedly the government's best remote viewers, and even this stat was drawn into question by a more skeptical statistical analysis.

2) http://www.remoteviewinghistory.com...-institute.html
-Title of the website is "The history of remote viewing", again, making it immediately a biased source.
- To its credit, it has a bibliography. However, one look at the references casts serious doubt on the entire paper. of the 23 citations, 3 are from the 90s (all 3 from 1995, and related to the same document. One was the AIR statement saying that the project should be shut down, another was a press release about that document, and the last was a discovery video about the document), there were 7 from the 80's and 13 from the 70's. Of the 23, only 5 come from reputable peer review journals, 2 from a computer engineering journal dated from 76 and 82, one from a physics journal in 86 (which was an article about quantum consciousness, an idea given almost no credit in modern neuroscience), one was the AIR report, which came out against remote viewing, and the last was an entry from Nature, which is a damn good periodical, however it is dated to 74, back in the hayday of psychic research.

3) http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p...&fr=cb-hp06
-this is a yahoo search result... Do I need to say more?

4) http://www.psiexplorer.com/stargate.htm
-The title of the site is "psi explorer", again, clear bias.
-no citations, same BS

However, in response, I have posted the abstracts from controlled experiments where out of body situations have been simulated, they come from:

1) Progress in Brain Research
2) Science
3) Journal of Neuroscience

Each article was written in the past decade. It uses modern technology. And the best argument you have against it is that it is only a theory.

Well sir, I don't think I can make this any clearer. You are retarded, you don't know what you are talking about, your info is useless, you don't understand the first thing about science, and you are wasting the precious human air supply.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Do you know anyone who has.

A lot of people believe they do. I know a girl who believes she can read auras. What do you think?

i knew you were going to post this thread before you did

Originally posted by inimalist
Do I know better than getting into this, sure I do.
Do I have anything better to do right now, of course.
Am I going to be mature and just ignore all this, **** no.

So, here is where we are. Posted as proof of Remote viewings or whatever:

1) http://www.subversiveelement.com/Mi..._Star_Gate.html
-The title of the webpage is "mind control home" which should instantly discredit it as a valid or objective source.
-It contains the phrase right at the end -> "The final recommendations of the AIR (American Institute of Research) was to terminate the Stargate project. CIA concluded that there was no case in which ESP had been used to guide intelligence operations."
-Even the most rosy coloured analysis of the data showed a 15% success rate for the people who were supposedly the government's best remote viewers, and even this stat was drawn into question by a more skeptical statistical analysis.

2) http://www.remoteviewinghistory.com...-institute.html
-Title of the website is "The history of remote viewing", again, making it immediately a biased source.
- To its credit, it has a bibliography. However, one look at the references casts serious doubt on the entire paper. of the 23 citations, 3 are from the 90s (all 3 from 1995, and related to the same document. One was the AIR statement saying that the project should be shut down, another was a press release about that document, and the last was a discovery video about the document), there were 7 from the 80's and 13 from the 70's. Of the 23, only 5 come from reputable peer review journals, 2 from a computer engineering journal dated from 76 and 82, one from a physics journal in 86 (which was an article about quantum consciousness, an idea given almost no credit in modern neuroscience), one was the AIR report, which came out against remote viewing, and the last was an entry from Nature, which is a damn good periodical, however it is dated to 74, back in the hayday of psychic research.

3) http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p...&fr=cb-hp06
-this is a yahoo search result... Do I need to say more?

4) http://www.psiexplorer.com/stargate.htm
-The title of the site is "psi explorer", again, clear bias.
-no citations, same BS

However, in response, I have posted the abstracts from controlled experiments where out of body situations have been simulated, they come from:

1) Progress in Brain Research
2) Science
3) Journal of Neuroscience

Each article was written in the past decade. It uses modern technology. And the best argument you have against it is that it is only a theory.

Well sir, I don't think I can make this any clearer. You are retarded, you don't know what you are talking about, your info is useless, you don't understand the first thing about science, and you are wasting the precious human air supply.

No one's sure

In 1995 the project was transferred to the CIA and a retrospective evaluation of the results was done. The CIA contracted the American Institutes for Research for this evaluation. An analysis conducted by Professor Jessica Utts showed a statistically significant effect, with gifted subjects scoring 5%-15% above chance, though subject reports included a large amount of irrelevant information, and when reports did seem on target they were vague and general in nature. Professor Ray Hyman concluded a null result. Based upon both of their collected findings, the CIA followed the recommendation to terminate the 20 million dollar project.Time magazine stated in 1995 three full-time psychics were still working on a $500,000-a-year budget out of Fort Meade, Maryland, which would soon close up shop.

http://anson.ucdavis.edu/~utts/air2.html

My Scientist is also reputable.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
i knew you were going to post this thread before you did

K-ching

Originally posted by Zebedee
No one's sure

In 1995 the project was transferred to the CIA and a retrospective evaluation of the results was done. The CIA contracted the American Institutes for Research for this evaluation. An analysis conducted by Professor Jessica Utts showed a statistically significant effect, with gifted subjects scoring 5%-15% above chance, though subject reports included a large amount of irrelevant information, and when reports did seem on target they were vague and general in nature. Professor Ray Hyman concluded a null result. Based upon both of their collected findings, the CIA followed the recommendation to terminate the 20 million dollar project.Time magazine stated in 1995 three full-time psychics were still working on a $500,000-a-year budget out of Fort Meade, Maryland, which would soon close up shop.

http://anson.ucdavis.edu/~utts/air2.html

My Scientist is also reputable.



so what, you are arguing my point against me now?

I never said the CIA didn't do research, I said the research was bunk and they closed up. Which is exactly what that says.

Originally posted by inimalist
so what, you are arguing my point against me now?

I never said the CIA didn't do research, I said the research was bunk and they closed up. Which is exactly what that says.

No it says one of the two scientists found it statistically valid the other did not. It means the jury was out but the gains were not financially justifiable.

This one felt and still feels it was statistically valid.

http://anson.ucdavis.edu/~utts/air2.html

im empathic, but thats not what your thinking is it?

Originally posted by ~Forever*Alone~
im empathic, but thats not what your thinking is it?

I feel you if your old enough

The CIA is a bunch of people, like you and me, they can have stupid ideas too.

Originally posted by Dulcie
The CIA is a bunch of people, like you and me, they can have stupid ideas too.

Well they are not like me. I don't destabalise any third world nations for political gain Dulce. If you do.... Respect!

Why are you ignoring the true meaning of what I say?
What I mean is, they are human, mortals, like us, not some perfect robot geniuses. They can make mistakes.

Originally posted by Dulcie
Why are you ignoring the true meaning of what I say?
What I mean is, they are human, mortals, like us, not some perfect robot geniuses. They can make mistakes.

You mean like in the isolation of Russia in recent years from previous Warsaw pack nations leading to the present resurgence in cold war attitudes?

Pleeeease, I'm begging you. I'm talking about those bloody telepathic powers!!! Just because the CIA does something, it doesn't prove anything. Period.

Do you believe on this? probably HEROES....watch it

doesnt really matter if such things exist. but........they exist. although most CLAIMS are false. its very rare.

I'm somewhat empathic.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I'm somewhat empathic.

What am I feeling now?

Stupid.

I'm somewhat suspicious of 'empaths'.

Sounds to me, like the spawn of Geldof-esque bullshit.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Stupid.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Sorry, it was my first impression...

Do you have telepathic or telekinetic powers?

Yea, I do. I'm an undercover Jedi Master from a far away place. I've been fighting the Sith here on earth and nearly wiped them out, there is only one remaining... but shhhhh! keep this between us ok!

The force is actually high counts of a bacteria in your bloodstream...

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I'm somewhat suspicious of 'empaths'.

Sounds to me, like the spawn of Geldof-esque bullshit.

I enjoy empaths! They make me feel violated and that's when I'm at my very best!

Originally posted by debbiejo
I'm somewhat empathic.

they say it goes away after you have kids for women.{sumthing about having less "soul" afterwards}. guess u havent had any.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
they say it goes away after you have kids for women.{sumthing about having less "soul" afterwards}. guess u havent had any.

LOL

omfg

so people have a "finite" ammount of soul?

How many kids can one have before you have no soul? And what happens then, are you infertile?



you know, because all this psychic stuff makes SO MUCH SENSE

Originally posted by Zebedee
Do you know anyone who has.

A lot of people believe they do. I know a girl who believes she can read auras. What do you think?

I don't believe in the supernatural.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in the supernatural.
But you're a buddhist?

Originally posted by Zebedee
But you're a buddhist?

What part of Buddhism has anything to do with the supernatural?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What part of Buddhism has anything to do with the supernatural?

The supernatural powers that come with being the enlightened one, maybe?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in the supernatural.

Bro you need to tell them your defintion of supernatural because I was confused at first until you explained.

Originally posted by Zebedee
The supernatural powers that come with being the enlightened one, maybe?

There are no supernatural powers that come with being the enlightened one in the type of Buddhism that I practice. However, there are some types of Buddhism that believe that Buddha was divine, but I don't believe that way.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro you need to tell them your defintion of supernatural because I was confused at first until you explained.

Sorry, it's too early in the morning.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There are no supernatural powers that come with being the enlightened one in the type of Buddhism that I practice. However, there are some types of Buddhism that believe that Buddha was divine, but I don't believe that way.






Well you do believe in Karma and reincarnation right?

Originally posted by Zebedee
Well you do believe in Karma and reincarnation right?

Well anyway I think what Shaky was telling me was that basically things that people consider to be supernatural he doesnt. For eaxmple Shaky believes in "God" but doesnt consider god to be supernatrual.

It's unfair, how come all the idiots get the special powers?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It's unfair, how come all the idiots get the special powers?

Shhsh

Originally posted by Zebedee
Well you do believe in Karma and reincarnation right?

Karma is not supernatural.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447678

Reincarnation could be considered to be supernatural, but I actually believe in simultaneous incarnation.I believe that simultaneous incarnation to be natural, but I cannot prove that.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Karma is not supernatural.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447678

Reincarnation could be considered to be supernatural, but I actually believe in simultaneous incarnation.I believe that simultaneous incarnation to be natural, but I cannot prove that.

I think many would consider Karma to be supernatural Shaky.

Originally posted by Zebedee
I think many would consider Karma to be supernatural Shaky.

I dunno man, thats a matter of opinion isnt it?

Originally posted by Zebedee
I think many would consider Karma to be supernatural Shaky.

Did you read the thread?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Did you read the thread?

No because I know that no empirical data or scientific laws invovle Karma. I know no natural processes underoin it as a theory. Therefore if it is not part of the natural it is supernatural,

Originally posted by Zebedee
No because I know that no empirical data or scientific laws invovle Karma. I know no natural processes underoin it as a theory. Therefore if it is not part of the natural it is supernatural,

So if you cant prove if something exists its supernatural? I dont think people consider aliens to be superntaural, yeah you might find them in that section but an alien is just another lifeform.

Originally posted by Zebedee
No because I know that no empirical data or scientific laws invovle Karma. I know no natural processes underoin it as a theory. Therefore if it is not part of the natural it is supernatural,

I present to you the proposal that you have no idea what Karma is. Please read the first part of the thread above and you will see that I am correct. Try it, you might like it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So if you cant prove if something exists its supernatural? I dont think people consider aliens to be superntaural, yeah you might find them in that section but an alien is just another lifeform.

Tell me about these aliens. I'm sure if aliens are real they are based on scientificly explainable principles. Which have a basis in present ideas and theories.

What subatomic particle influences Karma and reincarnation?

Originally posted by Zebedee
Tell me about these aliens. I'm sure if aliens are real they are based on scientificly explainable principles. Which have a basis in present ideas and theories.

My point is that you cant prove wether aliens exist but you can prove logically that they may exist the samething could go for god.



Originally posted by Zebedee

What subatomic particle influences Karma and reincarnation?

Im not an expert on Karma.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Tell me about these aliens. I'm sure if aliens are real they are based on scientificly explainable principles. Which have a basis in present ideas and theories.

What subatomic particle influences Karma and reincarnation?

I can't speak for reincarnation, but Karma is straight forward. Karma is the flow and direction of cause and effect.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I can't speak for reincarnation, but Karma is straight forward. Karma is the flow and direction of cause and effect.

That means thought that your talking about hitherto undiscovered positive and negative energies which are somehow able to keep a cumulative tally of each other.

Some kind of "Force".

Originally posted by Alfheim
My point is that you cant prove wether aliens exist

in fact you can, we just have not

Originally posted by Alfheim
but you can prove logically that they may exist

correction: You can provide your own interpretations of the Drake equation, however, given that we only know of life occuring on one planet, we cannot "logically" say anything about life elsewhere. The best estimate would be based on the probability of variables we are very much unfamiliar with, and will always be subject to the Fermi Paradox.

Originally posted by Alfheim
the samething could go for god.

absolutly not

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I can't speak for reincarnation, but Karma is straight forward. Karma is the flow and direction of cause and effect.

I always thought you saw Karma as more of a metaphore for social interaction...

Or maybe thats what I just read into it...

Originally posted by inimalist
in fact you can, we just have not

You could say the samething about God. So why havent we proved that alens exist?


Originally posted by inimalist

correction: You can provide your own interpretations of the Drake equation, however, given that we only know of life occuring on one planet, we cannot "logically" say anything about life elsewhere.

The best estimate would be based on the probability of variables we are very much unfamiliar with, and will always be subject to the Fermi Paradox.


Define logic for me please. I thought Cause and Effect was a theory that used logic to prove that God may exist.



Originally posted by inimalist

absolutly not


Right ok, are you going to go any further and explain why not? I was under the impression that Cause and Effect was a logical concept used that may logically prove the existance of god

Originally posted by Zebedee
You can prove that, can you? The CIA believed in it,

Sleep paralysis is scientifically proven.

Sleep paralysis is a condition characterized by temporary paralysis of the body shortly after waking up (known as hypnopompic paralysis) or, less often, shortly before falling asleep (known as hypnagogic paralysis).

Physiologically, it is closely related to the paralysis that occurs as a natural part of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which is known as REM atonia. Sleep paralysis occurs when the brain awakes from a REM state, but the bodily paralysis persists. This leaves the person fully aware, but unable to move. In addition, the state may be accompanied by hypnagogic hallucinations.

More often than not, sleep paralysis is believed by the person affected by it to be no more than a dream. This explains many dream recountings which describe the person lying frozen and unable to move. The hallucinatory element to sleep paralysis makes it even more likely that someone will interpret the experience as a dream, since completely fanciful, or dream-like, objects may appear in the room alongside one's normal vision.

I've experienced it many times, most often when I was using drugs recreationally and suffering from sleep deprivation. When I did sleep, it was fitfully and waking up was always difficult. Not to mention that before falling asleep I often believed I had stopped breathing. Pretty nasty, but not supernatural

Originally posted by debbiejo
I'm somewhat empathic.

Originally posted by Zebedee
What am I feeling now?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Stupid.

clapping

Originally posted by Syren
Sleep paralysis is scientifically proven.

Sleep paralysis is a condition characterized by temporary paralysis of the body shortly after waking up (known as hypnopompic paralysis) or, less often, shortly before falling asleep (known as hypnagogic paralysis).

Physiologically, it is closely related to the paralysis that occurs as a natural part of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which is known as REM atonia. Sleep paralysis occurs when the brain awakes from a REM state, but the bodily paralysis persists. This leaves the person fully aware, but unable to move. In addition, the state may be accompanied by hypnagogic hallucinations.

More often than not, sleep paralysis is believed by the person affected by it to be no more than a dream. This explains many dream recountings which describe the person lying frozen and unable to move. The hallucinatory element to sleep paralysis makes it even more likely that someone will interpret the experience as a dream, since completely fanciful, or dream-like, objects may appear in the room alongside one's normal vision.

I've experienced it many times, most often when I was using drugs recreationally and suffering from sleep deprivation. When I did sleep, it was fitfully and waking up was always difficult. Not to mention that before falling asleep I often believed I had stopped breathing. Pretty nasty, but not supernatural








clapping


Yes, but no one disagreed about sleep paralysis. The disagreement was that if that accounted for all out of body experiences. Which of course it doesn't. Sorry to hear about your sleep problems though. Your lack of breathing may be sleep apnia. If it is the doctor will get you a machine to solve it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You could say the samething about God. So why havent we proved that alens exist?

Define logic for me please. I thought Cause and Effect was a theory that used logic to prove that God may exist.

Right ok, are you going to go any further and explain why not? I was under the impression that Cause and Effect was a logical concept used that may logically prove the existance of god

lol, we have had this argument before. Your example has been used since the dawn of philosophy to try and prove the existence of God.

The answer is that using the law of "cause and effect" (which isn't a real law, more of short hand for the laws of thermodynamics...) we can say that, as far as the evidence shows, the universe must have had a start.

To assume that the start of the universe is somehow supernatural or that God had to start it is not a logical jump, it is actually the logical fallacy of "argument from personal incredulity" (I can't imagine a natural cause for the beginning of the universe, so therefore it must be supernatural).

For God to be a logical answer to the question of "where did the universe come from" or "what started the universe", there would need to be some evidence that alludes to a supernatural vs natural universe. What evidence do you know of that shows our universe was clearly supernatural in origin, and not natural?

I do not have any sort of special powers. I do, however, have the ability to make a mean grilled peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I don't think the concept of karma needs necessarily to include supernatural forces within its definition.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I don't think the concept of karma needs necessarily to include supernatural forces within its definition.

Then please explain the natural laws it uses to measure the checks and balances of life and where this is recorded.

Well, that's only one way of interpreting it.

It doesn't have to be some intangible entity sitting there keeping a score card.

(Newton's Third Law)

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Well, that's only one way of interpreting it.

It doesn't have to be some intangible entity sitting there keeping a score card.

(Newton's Third Law)

Ahh, but how does the bad Karma get decided upon. I don't see Karma as eqaul and opposite reactions as in many examples Karma doesn't appear cumulative. For instance if I was a multiple rapist but I saved two peoples lives. How does the fictional positive and negative energy tally? Does it have a shelf life? Say I raped someone 10 years ago and saved someones life 15 years ago, how are they ofset? I'm afraid your definition doesn't work under Newtons third law really, to many subjective elements. It requires a definitive definition of positive and negative in all situations.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Ahh, but how does the bad Karma get decided upon. I don't see Karma as eqaul and opposite reactions as in many examples Karma doesn't appear cumulative. For instance if I was a multiple rapist but I saved two peoples lives. How does the fictional positive and negative energy tally? Does it have a shelf life? Say I raped someone 10 years ago and saved someones life 15 years ago, how are they ofset? I'm afraid your definition doesn't work under Newtons third law really, to many subjective elements. It requires a definitive definition of positive and negative in all situations.

I was being flippant with the Newton thing.

It isn't a scientifically measurable thing, though that's not what I said.

It's just common sense that if you go round acting like a ****, it is likely to come back on you in some way, at some time. Not definitely, but probably. That's not supernatural, it's perfectly explainable.

I only said it needn't be a supernatural idea.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I was being flippant with the Newton thing.

It isn't a scientifically measurable thing, though that's not what I said.

It's just common sense that if you go round acting like a ****, it is likely to come back on you in some way, at some time. Not definitely, but probably. That's not supernatural, it's perfectly explainable.

I only said it needn't be a supernatural idea.

I would agree with a lot of that. Although true karmic definitions are supernatual. I hoped you were being flippant with Newtons name. Did you know Newton himself was prone to rages and a little schitzo maybe. He also acted like a dick a lot. Newton also spent most of his time doing alchemy and not physics. That's true by the way and not something dodgy from the internet.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Ahh, but how does the bad Karma get decided upon. I don't see Karma as eqaul and opposite reactions as in many examples Karma doesn't appear cumulative. For instance if I was a multiple rapist but I saved two peoples lives. How does the fictional positive and negative energy tally? Does it have a shelf life? Say I raped someone 10 years ago and saved someones life 15 years ago, how are they ofset? I'm afraid your definition doesn't work under Newtons third law really, to many subjective elements. It requires a definitive definition of positive and negative in all situations.

Is there such a thing as bad cause and effect?

There is no positive or negative energy tally in Karma.

Cause and effect are simultaneous.

Karma has nothing to do with Justus.

If you are going to talk about Karma, please learn something about it.

If cause and effect is the water; Karma is the river.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is there such a thing as bad cause and effect?

There is no positive or negative energy tally in Karma.

Cause and effect are simultaneous.

Karma has nothing to do with Justus.

If you are going to talk about Karma, please learn something about it.

If cause and effect is the water; Karma is the river.

Cause and effective is he issue how do you tally cause and effect. Is it cumulative, what's it's shelf life.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Cause and effective is he issue how do you tally cause and effect. Is it cumulative, what's it's shelf life.

There is no shelf life; cause and effect are simultaneous. I think I already said that. Do you understand what the word simultaneous means?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no shelf life; cause and effect are simultaneous. I think I already said that. Do you understand what the word simultaneous means?

In Karma cause and effect are not simultaneous though are they. Cause and effect also does not have to be similtaneous, causuality can be deffered, or cause does not have to engender effect at all. E.g. the person who smokes for 50 years and never gets cancer.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Let's use another then as you don't like the cancer example. Cause of a speeding ticket = speeding no cop around to see it = no effect. By getting away with this have I built up bad Karma no I win the lottery the next day. However the week before I murdered a family in there beds. What's your point?

You are confusing things. Lets stay with the speeding only. You speed and you get away with it. You have created Karma in your life that will make it more likely that you will speed again. The more you speed, the more risk you take in your driving habits. If you get a ticket or loose your life in a car accident, you only have yourself to blame for the Karma in your life.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are confusing things. Lets stay with the speeding only. You speed and you get away with it. You have created Karma in your life that will make it more likely that you will speed again. The more you speed, the more risk you take in your driving habits. If you get a ticket or loose your life in a car accident, you only have yourself to blame for the Karma in your life.

So Karma causes speeding?

Originally posted by Zebedee
So Karma causes speeding?

Did I say that?

The things you do manifest in your life. If you kill someone; that action manifests its self in your life.

You are trying to place Christian ideas onto Karma, and it will not work.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Did I say that?

The things you do manifest in your life. If you kill someone; that action manifests its self in your life.

You are trying to place Christian ideas onto Karma, and it will not work.

What if you kill and rape people but only bad people and you save good people. What happens then.

And yes you did say that.

Originally posted by Zebedee
What if you kill and rape people but only bad people and you save good people. What happens then.

And yes you did say that.

No, I did not say that Karma causes speeding.



I said that getting away with speeding creates Karma in your life. That Karma makes it more likely that you will speed again. Karma creates paths in your life; it is always up to you to choose your path.

Again you are trying to place Christian ideas onto Karma. There are no bad or good people. Only the things that people do can be considered to be good or bad, and that is relative.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, I did not say that Karma causes speeding.



I said that getting away with speeding creates Karma in your life. That Karma makes it more likely that you will speed again.

So you're saying Karma doesn't have a definate effect. It only causes speeding sometimes?

I have Dream-Sight (as my g-ma called it) I see things when im dreaming and im usually right.

Originally posted by Zebedee
The CIA believe in it, don't they?

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Mind_Control_Star_Gate.html

You're talking about a government that tried to make a gay-bomb.

Originally posted by Zebedee
So you're saying Karma doesn't have a definate effect. It only causes speeding sometimes?

So, you have not read anything I have written?

Is what I am telling you way over your head?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you have not read anything I have written?

Is what I am telling you way over your head?


I read it, i showed its flaws.

Originally posted by Zebedee
I read it, i showed its flaws.



However, your reply did not show any flaws in what I was saying. It only showed that you want some kind of judgment so badly that you can't see that the primus of your argument is wrong.

Originally posted by Alliance
You're talking about a government that tried to make a gay-bomb.





Tell me about it..they used me as the initial test subject

Originally posted by Zebedee
Yes, but no one disagreed about sleep paralysis. The disagreement was that if that accounted for all out of body experiences. Which of course it doesn't. Sorry to hear about your sleep problems though. Your lack of breathing may be sleep apnia. If it is the doctor will get you a machine to solve it.

I no longer have the problems, which is why I assume they were cause by the drugs I was taking

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, your reply did not show any flaws in what I was saying.

Y-yes it did

Originally posted by Syren
I no longer have the problems, which is why I assume they were cause by the drugs I was taking

That's good to know, drugs are bad.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Y-yes it did

Just because something is difficult to explain and understand does not mean it is supernatural. If that was the case, quantum mechanics would be also supernatural.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just because something is difficult to explain and understand does not mean it is supernatural. If that was the case, quantum mechanics would be also supernatural.

Quantum mechanics can be shown to work in devices like microchips. Karma cannot. The principles applied.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Quantum mechanics can be shown to work in devices like microchips. Karma cannot. The principles applied.


You don't know that.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
That's good to know, drugs are bad.

Generalisation