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Alright time to take care of this........

GO!

Goku as in DBZ Goku, of Saiyuki Goku?

Either way, Dark Schneider curbstomps them.

Originally posted by Tallis
Goku as in DBZ Goku, of Saiyuki Goku?

Either way, Dark Schneider curbstomps them.

LOL DS get his azz beat, its rape in effect here, Phenom you must hate DS, WTF can ds go to Goku? Nothing but get raped by him.

Curbstomp for D.S. he has plenty to attacks that could easily vaporize Goku and he's nearly impossible to kill. He has demonstrated stronger shields, stronger regen, and all of Goku's strongest attacks require large power buildups which D.S. would not give him time to use. Spells like black sabbath which create attack with a temperature of around 12 million degrees celsius could probably kill Goku, and that's before he got the Judas Pain.

Originally posted by Akuki
Curbstomp for D.S. he has plenty to attacks that could easily vaporize Goku and he's nearly impossible to kill. He has demonstrated stronger shields, stronger regen, and all of Goku's strongest attacks require large power buildups which D.S. would not give him time to use. Spells like black sabbath which create attack with a temperature of around 12 million degrees celsius could probably kill Goku, and that's before he got the Judas Pain.

A casual planet destroying blast would KILL DS.

Goku in a curbstomp.

Originally posted by Akuki
Curbstomp for D.S. he has plenty to attacks that could easily vaporize Goku and he's nearly impossible to kill. He has demonstrated stronger shields, stronger regen, and all of Goku's strongest attacks require large power buildups which D.S. would not give him time to use. Spells like black sabbath which create attack with a temperature of around 12 million degrees celsius could probably kill Goku, and that's before he got the Judas Pain.

GS will just get a beaten up, just like Fallen Uriel did him, Where was that rengen when Fallen Uriel man handle him, then hit him with an attack less then Planet busting?DS's, Dspell bund was being broken by super powered punches, Goku pnches do more then that.DS is the one how needs time to lanch his attacks, Goku does not. Goku redues DS to a Talking head.

Crubstomp for Goku, your thread sucks Phenom.

Originally posted by WHITEBEARD
GS will just get a beaten up, just like Fallen Uriel did him, Where was that rengen when Fallen Uriel man handle him, then hit him with an attack less then Planet busting?DS's, Dspell bund was being broken by super powered punches, Goku pnches do more then that.DS is the one how needs time to lanch his attacks, Goku does not. Goku redues DS to a Talking head.

Crubstomp for Goku, your thread sucks Phenom.
Ummm... DS has beaten Fallen Uriel, and Fallen Uriel is a galaxy buster. How the hell is he going to have trouble with Goku's mere planet busting attacks at his highest level? Not to mention that In his fight with Uriel he shattered a lesser dimension.
And here's the regen you claim didn't exist, here he regens his head during the fight with Uriel.
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4868/dstoughness11fr2.jpg

In order to kill DS, you have to destroy his Eternal Atoms which exist in other dimensions. There's nothing Goku can do to him that he can't just regenerate from. Not to mention he can fly thousands of times lightspeed, destroy galaxies, and fission away matter and souls.

Phenomentroll and his stupid DBZ fanboyism need to GTFO this forum

Phenom. I challenge you to a Battlezone match with this as the subject.

Originally posted by Akuki
Ummm... DS has beaten Fallen Uriel, and Fallen Uriel is a galaxy buster. How the hell is he going to have trouble with Goku's mere planet busting attacks at his highest level? Not to mention that In his fight with Uriel he shattered a lesser dimension.

Goku > DS, Majin DS got knocked out of his Majin form from an attack from Fallen Uriel's Augoeides form, that was NOT a Galaxy busting attack or a Planet busting, after being man handle By Fallen Uriel. DS then called the Dragon Kinght to fight with Fallen Uriels (Augoeides form) there attacks (Key Word "There" shatter the walls of hell.

Seepblitz 12123 Goku Planet busting attack will get the Job done.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
In order to kill DS, you have to destroy his Eternal Atoms which exist in other dimensions. There's nothing Goku can do to him that he can't just regenerate from. Not to mention he can fly thousands of times lightspeed, destroy galaxies, and fission away matter and souls.

Phenomentroll and his stupid DBZ fanboyism need to GTFO this forum

SCANS, your claims are fruitless without scans!!

Fallen uriel is NOT a galaxy buster, Kid Buu (the guy Goku went toe-to-toe with IS a Galaxy buster)!

Goku will EVAPORATE DS with a planet destroying blast!



Nope, DS fanboy's NEVER post scans to back up their claims.

You can actually challenge people to Battlezones!?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You can actually challenge people to Battlezones!? yeah under the battlezone rules established under the comics forum. Those rules allow manga characters to be used.

Originally posted by Phenomenol
Nope, DS fanboy's NEVER post scans to back up their claims.
You would be a coward not to accept.

And givin that there are some DS scans in this very thread, i'd say they do post scans.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
There's nothing Goku can do to him that he can't just regenerate from.



Regenerate?! where was Majin's DS Oh so Great regentrations after a good ass kicking, from Fallen Uriel?

Majin DS lose's, this Bad.

Because Uriel's power attacked on higher dimensional levels (not just brute force)

Originally posted by King Kandy
You would be a coward not to accept.

And givin that there are some DS scans in this very thread, i'd say they do post scans.

Coward? on the internet? Look out guys internet tough guys...

Those scans are not what I asked for!

Originally posted by Phenomenol
Coward? on the internet? Look out guys internet tough guys...

Those scans are not what I asked for!

Are you accepting my challenge or not?

Originally posted by Akuki
Are you accepting my challenge or not?

NO, bring it here or forget it!

Challenge on the internet, LMAO!!

Originally posted by Phenomenol
NO, bring it here or forget it!

Challenge on the internet, LMAO!!
In that case it becomes obvious that you don't feel you can prevail when the arguments are being judged by reasonable individuals. I'll make you a deal, if I lose I have to wear a sig you make for a month. The judges would consist of well respected members from the comics forum and therefore wouldn't have any pre-existing bias towards either character. If you're arguments are truly as convincing as you claim this should not be any problem for you should it?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because Uriel's power attacked on higher dimensional levels (not just brute force)

Majin DS regenerate from the 1st attack. That you guys Oh so love to hype up & wank on.

Goku attacks are not just Brute force, its KI.

Originally posted by Akuki
In that case it becomes obvious that you don't feel you can prevail when the arguments are being judged by reasonable individuals. I'll make you a deal, if I lose I have to wear a sig you make for a month. The judges would consist of well respected members from the comics forum and therefore wouldn't have any pre-existing bias towards either character. If you're arguments are truly as convincing as you claim this should not be any problem for you should it?

I am worried about you not posting scans to back your claims up, My arguments won't have that problem.

Either do it here and now or get out.

Make the thread of battledome

Originally posted by Phenomenol
Make the thread of battledome
Would you agree to holding it say Wednesday? I like to take time to compose a reasonable argument and I also need some time to ask people to judge. The thread would be held in the comics forum and would have a total time limit of 3 days. After that time the judges can vote. Also for purposes of the match what time zone are you in so we can agree on a start time.

Originally posted by Akuki
Would you agree to holding it say Wednesday? I like to take time to compose a reasonable argument and I also need some time to ask people to judge. The thread would be held in the comics forum and would have a total time limit of 3 days. After that time the judges can vote. Also for purposes of the match what time zone are you in so we can agree on a start time.

Goku >>>>>>>>>>>DS(Evaporate DS with a planet busting attack)!!

Originally posted by Akuki
Would you agree to holding it say Wednesday? I like to take time to compose a reasonable argument and I also need some time to ask people to judge. The thread would be held in the comics forum and would have a total time limit of 3 days. After that time the judges can vote. Also for purposes of the match what time zone are you in so we can agree on a start time.

If you got to do all of that just to discuss over some damn characters?? HECK NO!

I ain't waiting, we do this here and now in this thread!!

Goku >DS!!

Originally posted by Phenomenol
If you got to do all of that just to discuss over some damn characters?? HECK NO!

I ain't waiting, we do this here and now in this thread!!

Goku >DS!!
fine, i can make the thread now if you prefer, can't you have even a little bit of patience?

I just challenged him to a battlezone on Goku vs. Pyron lol.

Originally posted by Akuki
fine, i can make the thread now if you prefer, can't you have even a little bit of patience?

Nope, we do this here and now!



Nope, handle it now.

This thread is over, Goku wins.

Originally posted by Phenomenol
Nope, we do this here and now!



Nope, handle it now.
To be simple no, I'm tired to posting huge amounts of scans and both me and mike showing you plenty of reasons why DS would win for you just to dismiss them out of hand. I want the battlezone thread because i want some closure on this issue, which is something that won't happen on this thread. if you don't have the patience or the cherent arguments to make a good battlzone argument then you truly are the 9 year old fanboy that your logic and grammer make you appear to be.

here's a link to an example of what the battlzone threads look like.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465359&highlight=title%3A%28battle+zone%29

And lets be honest here, if you continue to try and claim victory in this thread despite all of the numerous opponents to your argument, then you gain nothing, whereas if your argument is really strong enough to win the BZ thread then you manage to humiliate all of the DS fans and you will get some respect on the forum, I fail to see where the downside for you is.

Originally posted by Phenomenol
Nope, we do this here and now!



Nope, handle it now.
All this shows, is that you are afraid of having a Judged battle where there's a concrete way of telling who won.

Originally posted by Akuki
To be simple no, I'm tired to posting huge amounts of scans and both me and mike showing you plenty of reasons why DS would win for you just to dismiss them out of hand. I want the battlezone thread because i want some closure on this issue, which is something that won't happen on this thread. if you don't have the patience or the cherent arguments to make a good battlzone argument then you truly are the 9 year old fanboy that your logic and grammer make you appear to be.

Mike don't know what he is talking about, the guy tried to argue with me about Who Majin DS was fighting( He tried to say Majin DS didn't fight Fallen Uriel).I already gave you many Canon ponits why Majin DS gets his butt kicked.

You keep ignoring the Facts why Majin DS loses.

Originally posted by Akuki
To be simple no, I'm tired to posting huge amounts of scans and both me and mike showing you plenty of reasons why DS would win for you just to dismiss them out of hand. I want the battlezone thread because i want some closure on this issue, which is something that won't happen on this thread. if you don't have the patience or the cherent arguments to make a good battlzone argument then you truly are the 9 year old fanboy that your logic and grammer make you appear to be.

here's a link to an example of what the battlzone threads look like.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465359&highlight=title%3A%28battle+zone%29

And lets be honest here, if you continue to try and claim victory in this thread despite all of the numerous opponents to your argument, then you gain nothing, whereas if your argument is really strong enough to win the BZ thread then you manage to humiliate all of the DS fans and you will get some respect on the forum, I fail to see where the downside for you is.

Make the battlezone!

Your ass better have scans because if you don't back ANY..I mean ANY of your points up you fail automaticly. You DS Fanboys never provide scans, only wank his so called abilities..Mr. "Fallen Ureil can blow a galaxy up but I never post any scans to prove my points", LOL!

Akuki your going to get your @#$c kicked because you let your fanboyism guide you and that wrong!

Originally posted by Phenomenol
Make the battlezone!

Your ass better have scans because if you don't back ANY..I mean ANY of your points up you fail automaticly. You DS Fanboys never provide scans, only wank his so called abilities..Mr. "Fallen Ureil can blow a galaxy up but I never post any scans to prove my points", LOL!

Akuki your going to get your @#$c kicked because you let your fanboyism guide you and that wrong!
Ok I'll go make it right now before you can change your mind.

Ok, it's up in the comics forum now, game on.

Funny thing is DS just lost in this thread.

bull. DS defeated and took over the body of LUCIFER. then went on to take down the angels. u really think sum1 like goku stands a chance?????????? unbeleiveable.

If DS needs to be kill in many dimensions, then Goku lose, the only chance of Goku is Genkidama, if DS can resist the energy of a planet and his billions of habitants, the sea, the atmosphere, the sun, then DS will win.

for phenomenol: you are actually making that many people attack and hate DB, if your intention are that everybody learn to dislike DB you are doing a good Job, stop making this kind of threads.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
bull. DS defeated and took over the body of LUCIFER. then went on to take down the angels. u really think sum1 like goku stands a chance?????????? unbeleiveable.

DS gets hit by citiy busting attacks & gets hurt bad by them, you need to read the thread.A simple Planet busting attack ends this.

My god whats with all the Wanking?



Goku will just beat the hell out of him, far worse then Fallen Uriel did, DS don't win this.

Originally posted by Phenomenol
Alright time to take care of this........

GO! this is not even fair for dark schneider to fight goku.haha.frieza would rape ds

Originally posted by Akuki
Curbstomp for D.S. he has plenty to attacks that could easily vaporize Goku and he's nearly impossible to kill. He has demonstrated stronger shields, stronger regen, and all of Goku's strongest attacks require large power buildups which D.S. would not give him time to use. Spells like black sabbath which create attack with a temperature of around 12 million degrees celsius could probably kill Goku, and that's before he got the Judas Pain. you are retarted goku eats him alive

Originally posted by Karagiannis
this is not even fair for dark schneider to fight goku.haha.frieza would rape ds

Nah, Darshe would kill them both. His Judas Priest spell would just make their souls cease to exist.

Oh look, a bumped Phenomenol thread.

Goku isn't winning this one.

I just don't see how ol Goku can take this one...with DS's new secret hax ability..it's all but futile.

http://i54.tinypic.com/skunx3.png

sorry I really couldn't help myself when I seen that scene I died, I had to post it XD

As I own and have read Bastard!! 1 to 19, published by Viz media, along with fan translations of 20 - 23.

I have to say that the only two version of Dark Schneider that would win against Goku is, when he's empowered by the Judas Pain gem (Majin Dark Schneider) or operating the Dragon Knight Lucifer mecha.

seriously have you ever watched dragonball
??
majin buu will eat (thats right he will turn him to chocolate and swallow him)
even the death zone by garlic junior would exterminate d.s

no .goku will goku ssj4. he will search for d.s ki he will charge a 10x kamehameha and then instant transmission right to his face( i know that this wont kill d.s.) o only say that goku is more powerfull. also goku cant die cuz he have the dragonballs in his body ( shenron put them to goku)

Originally posted by Karagiannis
seriously have you ever watched dragonball
??
majin buu will eat (thats right he will turn him to chocolate and swallow him)
even the death zone by garlic junior would exterminate d.s

I have watched/read Dragon Ball but no one from it can take any action against DS. You clearly have not read or atleast read a substanstial portion of Bastard!!. DS'es Dispell Bound protects against matter manipulation because of its vacuum effect and also with the fact DS can only be truly affected by attacks that hit on all three planes of existence, Buu's Candy Ray would be useless.

The Dead Zone wouldn't be a problem for DS. He could easily blast Garlic Junior into it. He can also dimension bust.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
no .goku will goku ssj4. he will search for d.s ki he will charge a 10x kamehameha and then instant transmission right to his face( i know that this wont kill d.s.) o only say that goku is more powerfull. also goku cant die cuz he have the dragonballs in his body ( shenron put them to goku)

Too bad SSJ4 and Goku becoming immortal is not canon.

3 things:
1. Massively FTL.
2. Galaxy level+ destruction.
3. "Can't be killed if his body, spirit and soul aren't destroyed at the same time as well as his eternal atoms in 3 different dimensions."

Down DB fanboys, down.

if your small brain cant understand that goku has become immortal and got unlimited power at the end of gt when shenron put the dragonballs in his body fine.but i know that goku can destroy d.s.

whatever you say.if you cant understand i dont care

goku is also massively FTL. and he can destroy the universesuper buu gohan absorped can also destroy the universe by making the dimensions collapse

Originally posted by Karagiannis
if your small brain cant understand that goku has become immortal and got unlimited power at the end of gt when shenron put the dragonballs in his body fine.but i know that goku can destroy d.s.

But

GT is non-canon garbage. :3

Also, prove the rest of your garbage pl0x.

*twitch*

GT is non-canon and can't be used unless stated by the OP.

Agreed. Prove he's FTL and prove he can destroy a universe. He's only somewhat above Planetary.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
if your small brain cant understand that goku has become immortal and got unlimited power at the end of gt when shenron put the dragonballs in his body fine.but i know that goku can destroy d.s.

We go by canon here. Deal with it.

Atleast I'm familiar with both series. You clearly have not read Bastard!! and are simply mindlessly defending Goku because you can't stand to see him lose.

Originally posted by BloodRain
*twitch*

GT is non-canon and can't be used unless stated by the OP.

Agreed. Prove he's FTL and prove he can destroy a universe. He's only somewhat above Planetary.

I already proved that Kid Goku was faster than light. If Kid Goku is faster than light (outran Tiens solar flare)... any Goku after that is far faster than light.

By the way... Roshi is 1/1000 the speed of light, probably fsaster. You must forgot about him blocking multiple bullets from a machine gun with ease?

He goes from peak human running to FTL in 3 years? And not really. All he'd have to do is grab the specs before Tien noticed him while he was flashing it up.

Roshi's bullet timing makes him 1/1000th SoL? Machine gun bullets are what, Mach 2? Compare that to the Mach 880+ you think he is.

Lets look at the famous Snake Way thats said to be 1,000,000km long. On the first try Goku took 172 days to cover it, if we ignore the cutting corners with jumps and flight thats 67m/s, 'cause he was resting at times its probably much more than this. More importantly is that on the way back it took 2 days of cutting corners and no rest. For now ignoring how that would dramatically reduce the distance covered it would be Mach 17 max by the Saiyan saga.

Note, if Goku could move at the SoL it would only take him 3 seconds to run the whole distance without even cutting any corners.

carver9 are you with goku?

somewaht above planetary???XDXD he is stronger than character who can destroy the universe but he is just planetary???great logic!!kid buu = universe buster as elder kai himself stated !!
buu gohan abrobed=universe buster as dende vegito and supreme kai stated.(he can destroy the universe by crushing with alternate dimmensions) that was what vegito said.and dende said that he will make the walls betwwen dimensions break down and other dimension will rush trough.if you have read this you know that i am wright.

Gah, stop double posting.... and use spaces. >__>

1. As GT is non-canon Goku is not stronger then Buu. At best equal in combat but not in destructive capabilities.

2. Kai said that Buu would destroy the universe yes. But in a chain-reaction. That means a planet at a time as he was shown doing. If you disagree prove what you think is right.

3. Goku doesn't have the same kind of attack that Buu has to be universal. The only attack is the chain-reaction Dimension Scream, no other attack from Buu or Goku come close to this. Especially not in one strike.

4. AFAIK Buu himself stated his full powered dimension scream as Buuhan could wreck the universe. That leads to a possible hyperbole. Plus it takes ages to work. =| DS would wreck him before he does it.
But sadly the Dimension Scream he did as Buuhan is non-canon, it never happened in the manga. The best scream he did was the small one to get out of the Hyperbolic Timechamber, meaning Buu doesn't canonly have a universe destroying move.


To sum up; Goku doesn't have a Dimension Scream so cannot do anything close to universe busting. His strength, speed and destructive capabilities are <<<<< DS's.

you dont know what you are talking about.ds will never beat goku or majin buu.majin buu can absorb ds and the battle is over.goku can use the universal spirit bomb to ds.ds has no chance so shut up

DS powers have be proven to trump Goku's! Sorry man

If Goku has something above high quality planet busting that Mr. Toriyama has providied in canon, now's the time to remind us fans or show scans to boot.

wgat are you talking about??even vegeta scouter destroyed planet arlia really easily and his power leven was 16,000.its isnt hard to think that goku ssj4 is able to destroy multiple galaxies 4 fun

How is that any different from Frieza's base form destroying planet Vegeta?: his power level was 500,000 BTW

Why do you insist on using GT when its been stated multiple times its non-canon.

I also found that you convinietly ignored my requests for showing or facts from Akira Toriyama's works

Originally posted by Karagiannis
goku can use the universal spirit bomb to ds.ds has no chance so shut up
Oh wow you're so right.... but tell me, how long does it take to power up a universal Spirit Bomb?

Dragon Ball GT is non-canon. Have you even read the manga?

And lol at the powerscaling. Do you realise the size difference between the earth and our galaxy?

what facts do you want?SHUT UP!!kid buu can destroy the universe got it???elder kai said that and piccolo.and why he cant do it all an once like buuhan who can collapse the universe by making dimmension collapse to each other.GT is a real anime and not fanmade i can use it all i want.

Bolded for your simplicity:

"2. Kai said that Buu would destroy the universe yes. But in a chain-reaction. That means a planet at a time as he was shown doing. If you disagree prove what you think is right."

"4. The Dimension Scream he did as Buuhan is non-canon, it never happened in the manga."

"1. As GT is non-canon..."

Unless the thread maker says we're using non-canon material like GT then we cant use it. Its not up to you.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
what facts do you want?SHUT UP!!kid buu can destroy the universe got it???elder kai said that and piccolo.and why he cant do it all an once like buuhan who can collapse the universe by making dimmension collapse to each other.GT is a real anime and not fanmade i can use it all i want.


mmm


Shouldn't you be playing Halo 3 or mowing lawns or whatever it is you 13 year olds do?

Instead of infecting the internet with your AIDS mhmm

Originally posted by BloodRain
He goes from peak human running to FTL in 3 years? And not really. All he'd have to do is grab the specs before Tien noticed him while he was flashing it up.

Roshi's bullet timing makes him 1/1000th SoL? Machine gun bullets are what, Mach 2? Compare that to the Mach 880+ you think he is.

Lets look at the famous Snake Way thats said to be 1,000,000km long. On the first try Goku took 172 days to cover it, if we ignore the cutting corners with jumps and flight thats 67m/s, 'cause he was resting at times its probably much more than this. More importantly is that on the way back it took 2 days of cutting corners and no rest. For now ignoring how that would dramatically reduce the distance covered it would be Mach 17 max by the Saiyan saga.

Note, if Goku could move at the SoL it would only take him 3 seconds to run the whole distance without even cutting any corners.


Do you know the difference between running/combating at light speed? Do you also know that Goku outpaced the solar flare which is solar energy capable of going much faster than light? Kid Goku outpaced this.

Forget all of your caculations. Then this happened during the time popo was teaching Goku to be as fast as lightning.

Its a light speed feat... deal with it.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
wgat are you talking about??even vegeta scouter destroyed planet arlia really easily and his power leven was 16,000.its isnt hard to think that goku ssj4 is able to destroy multiple galaxies 4 fun

He can but would he... no.

Hell, I would go as far as to say that Frieza output of power was Solar system destroying level... King Ki did reference him twice as a Universal level threat and Goku said the same things.

Its not hard to believe this when you have a guy with a power level of 100 ripping through a moon and then you have Piccolo with a casual blast taking out the moon.

instead of insulting me what else can you do??i am 14 and kid buu wont destroy the universe planet by planet he can do it all at once if it was just planet by planet and in years why elder kai was so afraid??if it was like you said goku would just train for some months and then battle with buu cuz buu would had destroy around 10 galaxies.but they wanted to end thing with buu in one day because the knew that he could destroy the universe at once

stop saying bullshits GT is a real anime everyone can use it!!!and when vegeta destroyed planet arlia also counts cuz it happed in a real anime and no in a fanmade series.just because bastard!!!is the worse series ever and has no anime series except 6 OVAS prequel to the series i can use dragonball's anime and just the manga???you are an *******!

also gokus ssj full power kamehameha is MUCH faster than light.cuz in the movie coolers revenge he sent cooler to the sun with his kamehameha in around 1 minute while its should have taken 8 minutes at speed of light.you see??i have profs i dont just say goku stronger like you guys

Originally posted by Karagiannis
i have profs i dont just say goku stronger like you guys

Funny, considering you've shown nothing haermm

Originally posted by carver9
Do you know the difference between running/combating at light speed? Do you also know that Goku outpaced the solar flare which is solar energy capable of going much faster than light? Kid Goku outpaced this.

Forget all of your caculations. Then this happened during the time popo was teaching Goku to be as fast as lightning.

Its a light speed feat... deal with it.
He takes 172 days to cover Snake Way, deal with that.

Also post the scan of the lightning speed feat plox.
''That is if you believe that Mr. Popo was speaking literally, and not figuratively (unlikely considering he was saying that with tons of other metaphors and poetic language in the same speech), and that you assume that they mean lightning in vaccuum as opposed to lightning in atmosphere (which is much slower).

He talks about 'emptying your soul' and being 'as calm as the sky'. Clearly metaphorical. Saying something is 'lightning speed' or 'faster than lightning' is hardly an uncommon metaphor either. Using that as conclusive evidence is just stupid.'' ~Endless Mike

Dude youre confusing universal threat with universe buster. Hitler was a worldwide threat ya'know. It means what it means, that Freezer is a threat to the universe.

You say a powerlevel of 100-100,000 is planetary so you think EoS powerlevels would be at galaxy busting? Again, do you people not realise how much larger a galaxy is compared to the Earth? The Sun alone is 1.3million times the Earths size..

Originally posted by Karagiannis
stop saying bullshits GT is a real anime everyone can use it!!!and when vegeta destroyed planet arlia also counts cuz it happed in a real anime and no in a fanmade series.just because bastard!!!is the worse series ever and has no anime series except 6 OVAS prequel to the series i can use dragonball's anime and just the manga???you are an *******!
Very... very hard to understand what you're saying. Let me try to say this in a simple way; If it doesn't happen in the original source (the manga) then its not canon, being real has nothing to do with this, its if its canon to the original work. Thats how its is and how its always gonna be unless stated by the thread maker. End of.

Stop letting your fan-appeal to DBZ blind you. Yes Bastard!! sucks as so does Dark Schneider, and DBZ being the greatest anime of my childhood with Goku still being one of the greatest heroes in anime. And if there was a way to prove that they're FTL universe busters I'd be all over it..... but there isnt. Be rational about this.

just because gt has not a manga doesnt count :??? like i said do you remember when goku send cooler to the sun with a kamehameha in about one minute while in lightspeed it should take 8 minutes?!?!?!?!?!? instant transmission allows goku to moves at the exact speed of light.master roshi is a confirmed mini planet buster accept it cell is a confirmed solar system buster broly is a confirmed galaxy buster majin buu is a confirmed universe buster goku is at least 20 times stronger than kid buu who is at least 50 times stronger that the other character i mention (dont count master roshi).does the attacks of d.s. includes ki??cuz if they do super 17 can absorb them.there are many characters in dragonball stronger that d.s.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Funny, considering you've shown nothing haermm
just look at my post you ****i ng bitc h .what an asshol e you are!!!you havent even said 1 reason why d.s. is stronger so shut up

Originally posted by Karagiannis
just because gt has not a manga doesnt count :??? like i said do you remember when goku send cooler to the sun with a kamehameha in about one minute while in lightspeed it should take 8 minutes?!?!?!?!?!? instant transmission allows goku to moves at the exact speed of light.master roshi is a confirmed mini planet buster accept it cell is a confirmed solar system buster broly is a confirmed galaxy buster majin buu is a confirmed universe buster goku is at least 20 times stronger than kid buu who is at least 50 times stronger that the other character i mention (dont count master roshi).does the attacks of d.s. includes ki??cuz if they do super 17 can absorb them.there are many characters in dragonball stronger that d.s.
Pretty much. Akira Toriyama's original manga is canon, anything extra in that anime that wasn't in the manga is non-canon. That includes anime, movies and GT.

Instant Transmission is a teleportation technique, not his actual movements. (Eg teleporting Cell)

Cell's statement was hyperbole, he just got his power boost and was unknown even to himself what he could do. Remember how he confirmed that SSJ2 Gohan was nothing compared to him, only to have Gohan wreck Cell? And we're meant to believe his words? I mean this 'solar system' blast only shook the Earth and made a small crater.

Broly is non-canon. Buu has never destroyed a universe, nor a galaxy. He destroys planets one at a time as shown in the manga and the anime. Kai said Buu can destroy the universe in a chain-reaction event.

Lets put it this way; a character would have to be a million times stronger then Freeza to even blow up the sun.. case and point.

------------------------------------------------
On the other hand, DS went from Earth to the center of the Galaxy in 4 years, AKA 6500x the speed of light. He's also defeated 'confirmed' galaxy busters, infact people that he can easily beat can destroy a large solar system just by flying past one. DS also accidentally blew up a galaxy as a -side effect- of a battle.

Finally he can't be killed if his body, spirit and soul aren't destroyed at the same time as well as his eternal atoms in 3 different dimensions.

Can Goku do a galaxy level attack? Can he crush souls? Can he waste someones spirit? Can he travel through dimensions? And can he do all of this at the same time? No no-no, no and no.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
just look at my post you ****i ng bitc h .what an asshol e you are!!!you havent even said 1 reason why d.s. is stronger so shut up



You posted no evidence. mmm


No manga scans, no videos, nothing. All you did was make assertions. Bullshit assertions at that. So, uh, no, you did not provide any proof.

Also, suck my balls you rat**** meathead.

Can Goku do a galaxy level attack? Can he crush souls? Can he waste someones spirit? Can he travel through dimensions? And can he do all of this at the same time? No no-no, no and no.
yes yes yes yes yes

you have no idia about dragonball you as shole so shut up!

Child you haven't even read the manga, that makes you void.

Ok, show me Goku doing each one of those. If you can't he loses.

you know sth else d.s has destroy so many planet cuz he is an ANTI-HERO goku is a hero he protect he doesnt destroy

So you dont want to post a feat of galactic power? Ok, then show me Goku being able to effect a soul, a spirit and travel through 3 dimensions at the same time.

Originally posted by BloodRain
He takes 172 days to cover Snake Way, deal with that.

Also post the scan of the lightning speed feat plox.
''That is if you believe that Mr. Popo was speaking literally, and not figuratively (unlikely considering he was saying that with tons of other metaphors and poetic language in the same speech), and that you assume that they mean lightning in vaccuum as opposed to lightning in atmosphere (which is much slower).

He talks about 'emptying your soul' and being 'as calm as the sky'. Clearly metaphorical. Saying something is 'lightning speed' or 'faster than lightning' is hardly an uncommon metaphor either. Using that as conclusive evidence is just stupid.'' ~Endless Mike

Dude youre confusing universal threat with universe buster. Hitler was a worldwide threat ya'know. It means what it means, that Freezer is a threat to the universe.

You say a powerlevel of 100-100,000 is planetary so you think EoS powerlevels would be at galaxy busting? Again, do you people not realise how much larger a galaxy is compared to the Earth? The Sun alone is 1.3million times the Earths size..


Very... very hard to understand what you're saying. Let me try to say this in a simple way; If it doesn't happen in the original source (the manga) then its not canon, being real has nothing to do with this, its if its canon to the original work. Thats how its is and how its always gonna be unless stated by the thread maker. End of.

Stop letting your fan-appeal to DBZ blind you. Yes Bastard!! sucks as so does Dark Schneider, and DBZ being the greatest anime of my childhood with Goku still being one of the greatest heroes in anime. And if there was a way to prove that they're FTL universe busters I'd be all over it..... but there isnt. Be rational about this.

And do you know the difference between having a power level of 100 vs someone having a power level of 1000 of 1 million. We know that the higher your power level is the more power a person can generate. This was proven on more than one occasion. Look at the Goku and Piccolo fight. Goku had a power level of 350 and Piccolo had a power level of 300 and Goku blast over powered his. Look at the Vegeta and Goku fight... Goku blast over powered Vegetas blast and that all due to person "A" being more powerful than person "B". If Roshi can destroy a planet at 100 and the small difference in power between Goku and Piccolo lead to Goku over powering Piccolos blast, imagine what Frieza could do.


As for your comment about Freiza being a universal threat... Goku actually stated that if he didn't stop Frieza, Frieza would "destroy" the universe.

As for your snake way comment... Goku is the type that likes to conserve energy... was it stated that he went all out during arrival through snake way? Do you know the difference between travel speed and reflexes. Goku and Piccolo was moving faster than Roshi eyes could see and this was during the time Goku was a child and Roshi has caught MULTIPLE of bullets easily. Goku with his size vs a small bullet size had to be moving at crazy speeds... speeds far greater than a bullet/multiple bullets (again, think about his size vs a bullet size). Goku speed increased exponentially after this (when Roshi was unable to see him).

Him outracing solar energy shouldn't even be questionable... especially when we have him being in the heart of an exploding atomic bomb outracing it without too much trouble.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So you dont want to post a feat of galactic power? Ok, then show me Goku being able to effect a soul, a spirit and travel through 3 dimensions at the same time.

You are seriously lowballing Goku. Why would he destroy a planet, Galaxy when he has no purpose of doing that?

Originally posted by BloodRain
So you dont want to post a feat of galactic power? Ok, then show me Goku being able to effect a soul, a spirit and travel through 3 dimensions at the same time.
even broly has enough power to destroy a galaxy.goku can do all of them with instant transmission and universal spirit bomob also in the end shenron putted the dragonballs in gokus body that wuld give him amazng power just like syn shenron he was strong but when he had all the dragonball he overcamed goku ssj4 and vegeta ssj4 easily also omega is stronger than d.s. cuz he is an universal buster

N/a

Originally posted by carver9
And do you know the difference between having a power level of 100 vs someone having a power level of 1000 of 1 million. We know that the higher your power level is the more power a person can generate. This was proven on more than one occasion. Look at the Goku and Piccolo fight. Goku had a power level of 350 and Piccolo had a power level of 300 and Goku blast over powered his. Look at the Vegeta and Goku fight... Goku blast over powered Vegetas blast and that all due to person "A" being more powerful than person "B". If Roshi can destroy a planet at 100 and the small difference in power between Goku and Piccolo lead to Goku over powering Piccolos blast, imagine what Frieza could do.
First off Roshi blew up -the moon-, 1/50th the size of the Earth. 10,000 is then minimal confirmed planet busting so using that. I'll give a number and you tell me is someones power can go that high; The Milky Way/our Galaxy is about.. 30 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 times larger than the Earth, thats like the difference between a gain of sand and the Sun. Do you really think someone is that much times stronger than a 10,000 PL planet buster?

Originally posted by carver9
As for your comment about Freiza being a universal threat... Goku actually stated that if he didn't stop Frieza, Frieza would "destroy" the universe.
1. Was it in the manga?
2. You're assuming they mean one-shotting and not an eventual destruction.

Originally posted by carver9
As for your snake way comment... Goku is the type that likes to conserve energy... was it stated that he went all out during arrival through snake way? Do you know the difference between travel speed and reflexes. Goku and Piccolo was moving faster than Roshi eyes could see and this was during the time Goku was a child and Roshi has caught MULTIPLE of bullets easily. Goku with his size vs a small bullet size had to be moving at crazy speeds... speeds far greater than a bullet/multiple bullets (again, think about his size vs a bullet size). Goku speed increased exponentially after this (when Roshi was unable to see him).
http://www.mangareader.net/105-2854-13/dragon-ball/chapter-205.html
http://www.mangareader.net/105-2854-14/dragon-ball/chapter-205.html
He used up near most of his power flying as far as he could. And remember, it'd take 3 seconds at light speed. Yeah I don't think Goku wanted to rush either, its not like he needed to get urgent training to save his friends, family and planet from the two saiyans who will be arriving in less than a year...
...Dude bullet timing is not that impressive in fiction. Seriously. It gives Roshi Mach 1 reactions, getting relativistic speeds from that is makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Him outracing solar energy shouldn't even be questionable... especially when we have him being in the heart of an exploding atomic bomb outracing it without too much trouble.
Thing is you can't actually prove that he did the movement after the flash was launched and before it reached him. This is what we know; Tien announces the flash, does the flash, goku has the specs by the time Tien gets there. Im gonna need more than your assumption. Even if we use the anime we can see that Goku moves after everyones been blinded.

Originally posted by carver9
You are seriously lowballing Goku. Why would he destroy a planet, Galaxy when he has no purpose of doing that?
Can you guys show me anyone destroying a galaxy? ''Ok, then show me Goku being able to effect a soul, a spirit and travel through 3 dimensions at the same time.''

Originally posted by Karagiannis
even broly has enough power to destroy a galaxy.goku can do all of them with instant transmission and universal spirit bomob also in the end shenron putted the dragonballs in gokus body that wuld give him amazng power just like syn shenron he was strong but when he had all the dragonball he overcamed goku ssj4 and vegeta ssj4 easily also omega is stronger than d.s. cuz he is an universal buster

Broly is non-canon so Im not even going to get into that. GT is also non-canon so we'll drop that too but just to note they said Omegas power will eventually consume the universe, thats not one-shotting.

Next is that the spirit bomb takes an insane amount of time to form, and thats even if he can find a way to contact anything else besides the nature around him (he has no way to talk to the people of earth or the beings in the universe) like with the freeza one. Ya really think DS is gonna sit there and wait for Goku to charge up?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Listen up boys and girls. DS is massivly FTL, can annihilate a large galaxy by walking past it and can't be defeated by any means availably to the whole Dragon Ball verse.

Originally posted by BloodRain
First off Roshi blew up -the moon-, 1/50th the size of the Earth. 10,000 is then minimal confirmed planet busting so using that. I'll give a number and you tell me is someones power can go that high; The Milky Way/our Galaxy is about.. 30 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 times larger than the Earth, thats like the difference between a gain of sand and the Sun. Do you really think someone is that much times stronger than a 10,000 PL planet buster?


1. Was it in the manga?
2. You're assuming they mean one-shotting and not an eventual destruction.


http://www.mangareader.net/105-2854-13/dragon-ball/chapter-205.html
http://www.mangareader.net/105-2854-14/dragon-ball/chapter-205.html
He used up near most of his power flying as far as he could. And remember, it'd take 3 seconds at light speed. Yeah I don't think Goku wanted to rush either, its not like he needed to get urgent training to save his friends, family and planet from the two saiyans who will be arriving in less than a year...
...Dude bullet timing is not that impressive in fiction. Seriously. It gives Roshi Mach 1 reactions, getting relativistic speeds from that is makes no sense at all.


Thing is you can't actually prove that he did the movement after the flash was launched and before it reached him. This is what we know; Tien announces the flash, does the flash, goku has the specs by the time Tien gets there. Im gonna need more than your assumption. Even if we use the anime we can see that Goku moves after everyones been blinded.


Can you guys show me anyone destroying a galaxy? ''Ok, then show me Goku being able to effect a soul, a spirit and travel through 3 dimensions at the same time.''



Broly is non-canon so Im not even going to get into that. GT is also non-canon so we'll drop that too but just to note they said Omegas power will eventually consume the universe, thats not one-shotting.

Next is that the spirit bomb takes an insane amount of time to form, and thats even if he can find a way to contact anything else besides the nature around him (he has no way to talk to the people of earth or the beings in the universe) like with the freeza one. Ya really think DS is gonna sit there and wait for Goku to charge up?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Listen up boys and girls. DS is massivly FTL, can annihilate a large galaxy by walking past it and can't be defeated by any means availably to the whole Dragon Ball verse.

I know it was a moon... lol... typo. Why do you keep saying it takes a power level of 10000 when we have Piccolo shooting a casual blast destroying the moon with ease and he was at a power level of 350?

I agree with the GT stuff... I don't even know why you are debating against him in regards to that... you have heart.

Roshi didn't bullet time for the bullet catching feat... he was clearly faster than the bullets.

I know how big a Galaxy is but it would be insane to think someone at Frieza levels wouldn't cause massive damage to one but I do agree, he isn't one shotting one but in order for Goku to claim him as a Universal destroyer... he "had" to consider Frieza extremely powerful.

I can't show you anyone destroying a Galaxy in DBZ because no one ever attempted to. Cell did claim that he had enough power to shed a solar system and there were people out there that can sense power levels when he said this and they weren't in any denial that he couldn't. This statement was said during the begining of his initial attack and the power of the blast grew after that statement. That was a statement that was placed in the manga from Akira himself as a discription of power and I see no reason for him to write Cell lying about how powerful his blast was/is.

Catching MUTIPLES of bullets at once is faster than Mach 1... if it was a single bullet, you would have an argument.

I already told you that Goku is losing this fight... that's not my argument.

Goku reflexes is far faster than his flight and this has been proven on numerous of occassions but since you want to refer to flight... Goku covered planet Namek in seconds and planet Namek is twice the size of Earth.

Tien does the solar flare... Goku runs off while the attack is going off, grab Roshi glasses and run back to his spot and put the glasses on before the blast touch him. That's light speed.

As for Goku outracing a Nuke... it was during the time Frieza had him in a ball of paralyzing light and was kicking him around. Frieza tells Goku that if the ball touch anything but him, it will explode. Frieza then kicks the ball while again, Goku is in it. The ball hits the ground (while Goku is in it) and Goku outruns the blast... that is true light speed buddy.

http://m1143.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/carver9/13503-speed_feat_super.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=13503-speed_feat_super.jpg

Outrunning a nuke does not make you lightspeed, not that Goku outran the nuke.

And you know, Goku could have just outrun the speed at which Tien had to gesture his arms to use Solar Flare.

Also, what the **** is up with that tiny ass pic in your link?

Originally posted by BloodRain
First off Roshi blew up -the moon-, 1/50th the size of the Earth. 10,000 is then minimal confirmed planet busting so using that. I'll give a number and you tell me is someones power can go that high; The Milky Way/our Galaxy is about.. 30 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 times larger than the Earth, thats like the difference between a gain of sand and the Sun. Do you really think someone is that much times stronger than a 10,000 PL planet buster?




heh. I did a power-scaling that had blasts being on par with a galactic scale.


So, yeah, someone could be that much stronger.


We had Goku go from a PL of 460 something all the way up to 150,000,000 and that wasn't even a strong version of the SSJ. What's the difference in power?

Try 326,086 times difference in power. Another ascension? And another? And another? And another?


Exponential growth really does some fancy stuff to numbers.

Originally posted by carver9
I know it was a moon... lol... typo. Why do you keep saying it takes a power level of 10000 when we have Piccolo shooting a casual blast destroying the moon with ease and he was at a power level of 350?
'Cause the Earth is 50x bigger than the Moon.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with the GT stuff... I don't even know why you are debating against him in regards to that... you have heart.
Gotta give everyone a chance. :V

Originally posted by carver9
Roshi didn't bullet time for the bullet catching feat... he was clearly faster than the bullets.

Catching MUTIPLES of bullets at once is faster than Mach 1... if it was a single bullet, you would have an argument.
Thats still classed as bullet timeing and still gives him supersonic speeds. If you post the link/scan I can get a more accurate view of his speed.

Originally posted by carver9
I know how big a Galaxy is but it would be insane to think someone at Frieza levels wouldn't cause massive damage to one but I do agree, he isn't one shotting one but in order for Goku to claim him as a Universal destroyer... he "had" to consider Frieza extremely powerful.
Of course Goku considered him a powerful threat, he was the strongest being known to him at the time. And what does Goku know about universe busting strength when he's just discovered a planet buster? At best you can argue large Star level for end of Z characters.

Originally posted by carver9
I can't show you anyone destroying a Galaxy in DBZ because no one ever attempted to. Cell did claim that he had enough power to shed a solar system and there were people out there that can sense power levels when he said this and they weren't in any denial that he couldn't. This statement was said during the begining of his initial attack and the power of the blast grew after that statement. That was a statement that was placed in the manga from Akira himself as a discription of power and I see no reason for him to write Cell lying about how powerful his blast was/is.
''Cell's statement was hyperbole, he just got his power boost and was unknown even to himself what he could do. Remember how he confirmed that SSJ2 Gohan was nothing compared to him, only to have Gohan wreck Cell? And we're meant to believe his words? I mean this 'solar system' blast only shook the Earth and made a small crater.''

Originally posted by carver9
I already told you that Goku is losing this fight... that's not my argument.
Ah goodie.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku reflexes is far faster than his flight and this has been proven on numerous of occassions but since you want to refer to flight... Goku covered planet Namek in seconds and planet Namek is twice the size of Earth.
Technically the Solar Flare thing was movement speed, movement speed like Snake Way is. *beep* Would need to cover half the planet in 0.1 seconds to be SoL, that I recall he didnt have to cross half of Namek.

Originally posted by carver9
Tien does the solar flare... Goku runs off while the attack is going off, grab Roshi glasses and run back to his spot and put the glasses on before the blast touch him. That's light speed.
Actually seeing as Roshi and the rest in the stadium are already blinded it kinda proves that Goku moved after the Solar Flare.

Originally posted by carver9
As for Goku outracing a Nuke... it was during the time Frieza had him in a ball of paralyzing light and was kicking him around. Frieza tells Goku that if the ball touch anything but him, it will explode. Frieza then kicks the ball while again, Goku is in it. The ball hits the ground (while Goku is in it) and Goku outruns the blast... that is true light speed buddy.
Wait Freeza's attack is a nuke now? Did he even outrun it? Btw a nuke blast wave is only 400mph.

Originally posted by dadudemon
heh. I did a power-scaling that had blasts being on par with a galactic scale.


So, yeah, someone could be that much stronger.


We had Goku go from a PL of 460 something all the way up to 150,000,000 and that wasn't even a strong version of the SSJ. What's the difference in power?

Try 326,086 times difference in power. Another ascension? And another? And another? And another?


Exponential growth really does some fancy stuff to numbers.

Goku's PL at Raditz was 950, his power increased by 157894.737x by the end of the Freeza saga as a SSJ, aka 1/3 main sagas to gain that much. He did the same amount of training for the Cell saga as he did for the saiyan+freeza saga so lets put it to a further 200kx. He increased less than that from end of Cell to start of Buu if we assume he's somewhere above SSJ2 Cell saga Gohan (As Goku was > Gohan who was < Cell Gohan), then add SSJ3.

-Assumptions-
950*157,894.737 for the Freeza saga = 150,000,000
150,000,000*200,000 for the Cell saga = 30,000,000,000,000
3x10^13*1,000 for SSJ2 in the Buu saga = 3x10^16
3x10^16*100 for end of Buu saga with SSJ3 = 3x10^18

Assuming that it would actually work like this, EoS SSJ3 Goku would still need to be 13,333,333,333,333,333,333,333x stronger to galaxy bust with this method. That means even large stars would be out of reach.

Originally posted by BloodRain
'Cause the Earth is 50x bigger than the Moon.


Gotta give everyone a chance. :V


Thats still classed as bullet timeing and still gives him supersonic speeds. If you post the link/scan I can get a more accurate view of his speed.


Of course Goku considered him a powerful threat, he was the strongest being known to him at the time. And what does Goku know about universe busting strength when he's just discovered a planet buster? At best you can argue large Star level for end of Z characters.


''Cell's statement was hyperbole, he just got his power boost and was unknown even to himself what he could do. Remember how he confirmed that SSJ2 Gohan was nothing compared to him, only to have Gohan wreck Cell? And we're meant to believe his words? I mean this 'solar system' blast only shook the Earth and made a small crater.''


Ah goodie.


Technically the Solar Flare thing was movement speed, movement speed like Snake Way is. *beep* Would need to cover half the planet in 0.1 seconds to be SoL, that I recall he didnt have to cross half of Namek.


Actually seeing as Roshi and the rest in the stadium are already blinded it kinda proves that Goku moved after the Solar Flare.


Wait Freeza's attack is a nuke now? Did he even outrun it? Btw a nuke blast wave is only 400mph.



Goku's PL at Raditz was 950, his power increased by 157894.737x by the end of the Freeza saga as a SSJ, aka 1/3 main sagas to gain that much. He did the same amount of training for the Cell saga as he did for the saiyan+freeza saga so lets put it to a further 200kx. He increased less than that from end of Cell to start of Buu if we assume he's somewhere above SSJ2 Cell saga Gohan (As Goku was > Gohan who was < Cell Gohan), then add SSJ3.

-Assumptions-
950*157,894.737 for the Freeza saga = 150,000,000
150,000,000*200,000 for the Cell saga = 30,000,000,000,000
3x10^13*1,000 for SSJ2 in the Buu saga = 3x10^16
3x10^16*100 for end of Buu saga with SSJ3 = 3x10^18

Assuming that it would actually work like this, EoS SSJ3 Goku would still need to be 13,333,333,333,333,333,333,333x stronger to galaxy bust with this method. That means even large stars would be out of reach.



I know how big Earth is compared to the moon but again, Piccolo destroyed a moon with a "casual" blast.

This isn't bullet timing... its speed.

http://m1143.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/carver9/roshispeed.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=roshispeed.jpg

I don't get your statement about Frieza being powerful. You can't take away from the fact that Frieza was classified as a universal threat because that was Gokus most powerful foe. Goku fought Raditz AND Vegeta before this and didn't put either of them on the scale that he put Frieza and both were the strongest he has fought during that time as well.

WTF... the only reason Cell didn't know Gohun was stronger than him was due to the fact that Cell "could not read power levels". That has NOTHING to do wit Cell knowing "how powerful he is". Also, your argument about Cell not adjusting to his new power level "again" doesn't make any sense since we have Cell going through transformations and coping with his powers almost immediately. Its not as if Cell went through some type of training after each transformation. Cell again, knew EXACTLY how powerful he was.

Goku dodging the solar flare was more of a reflex thing and if Goku ran off while the blast was on him, he would have been blinded. Tien does the blast, Goku outpace the blast before it touches him and Goku was ok afterwards.

So a nuke explodes at 400 mps? So if you are in the center of a nuke... the heart of it, you only need 400 mps speed to outpace it?

Originally posted by dadudemon
heh. I did a power-scaling that had blasts being on par with a galactic scale.


So, yeah, someone could be that much stronger.


We had Goku go from a PL of 460 something all the way up to 150,000,000 and that wasn't even a strong version of the SSJ. What's the difference in power?

Try 326,086 times difference in power. Another ascension? And another? And another? And another?


Exponential growth really does some fancy stuff to numbers. Which is why Goku and Vegeta could not stop a planet busting attack.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku isn't winning this one.

lol look who I quoted.

And Freeza's what, 1000x stronger than Piccalo was then? That gotta be large planet level at best.

Oh Carver, why do you insist on making me strain my eyes on tiny pics? Fyi I meant the broader term of bullet time. Seeing the pic I can safely say that he was demonstrating Mach 1-2 speeds. (400ms bullets, reaction distance of 1m, increased due to multiple bullets.)

Problem is that Goku has never witnessed a universe buster... hell he's barely seen a planet buster. How do you expect him to know what anything above planet busting is like? Universal threat does not mean universe buster.

No, he had no way of knowing his destructive limits as he just gained the power..... nor does it actually matter as A) His so called "solar system" busting attack didnt do what he said it could and B) Gohan's 'stronger' blast didnt didnt even come close to his hyperboled statement.

All he'd have to do is look away and begin to move while Tien was calling out the flash, the others looking at the stage would already be blinded.

Something around that number, maybe more with a more powerful explosion but it would be at most high-supersonic for a bomb we've made.

Originally posted by BloodRain
And Freeza's what, 1000x stronger than Piccalo was then? That gotta be large planet level at best.

Oh Carver, why do you insist on making me strain my eyes on tiny pics? Fyi I meant the broader term of bullet time. Seeing the pic I can safely say that he was demonstrating Mach 1-2 speeds. (400ms bullets, reaction distance of 1m, increased due to multiple bullets.)

Problem is that Goku has never witnessed a universe buster... hell he's barely seen a planet buster. How do you expect him to know what anything above planet busting is like? Universal threat does not mean universe buster.

No, he had no way of knowing his destructive limits as he just gained the power..... nor does it actually matter as A) His so called "solar system" busting attack didnt do what he said it could and B) Gohan's 'stronger' blast didnt didnt even come close to his hyperboled statement.

All he'd have to do is look away and begin to move while Tien was calling out the flash, the others looking at the stage would already be blinded.

Something around that number, maybe more with a more powerful explosion but it would be at most high-supersonic for a bomb we've made.

More than a large planet buster (Frieza)... Piccolo was millions of times weaker than Frieza, not 1000's. With that said, I agree, Frieza probably can't destroy a Universe but I wouldn't put it past him on being able to destroy multiples of planets with a single blast if it came down to it.

Lol... my bad with the small scan... posted it from my phone. The point of the scan is, Roshi couldn't even perceive kid Goku during his fight against Tien and Roshi catch bullets like candy.

Goku wasn't the only person that said anything about Frieza vs a universe. It was stated throughout Friezas appearance. What does Universe threat means to you? What level of power would you have to be at to be a Universal threat?

Why wouldn't Cell know his own destructive power? Can you please stop basing things off of collateral damage... it doesn't work like that. We also know that DBZ attacks are only at its peek when the blast explodes... Cell and Gohun blast did not explode.

Cell stating what his blast was/is capable of doing isn't hyperbole... its him knowing his limits.

I think you are getting the figures wrong in regards to outracing a nuclear explosion while being in the heart of it. That alone is at least Mach 500+ and that happened from a none full powered Goku.

Originally posted by carver9
More than a large planet buster (Frieza)... Piccolo was millions of times weaker than Frieza, not 1000's. With that said, I agree, Frieza probably can't destroy a Universe but I wouldn't put it past him on being able to destroy multiples of planets with a single blast if it came down to it.
Depends if you go by PL or not. No doubt that he has the power that could blow up multiple planets... just not in one blast. Venus to us is 42mil km away, Frieza would need the power to destroy an area 40x larger than the Sun to blow up two planets at the same time. The distance is far to large for him.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... my bad with the small scan... posted it from my phone. The point of the scan is, Roshi couldn't even perceive kid Goku during his fight against Tien and Roshi catch bullets like candy.
Thats cos he was blind by the time Goku go to him, even if he wasn't Goku wouldn't need to move that fast to escape the perception of an unfocused, about to be blinded Roshi.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku wasn't the only person that said anything about Frieza vs a universe. It was stated throughout Friezas appearance. What does Universe threat means to you? What level of power would you have to be at to be a Universal threat?
Universal threat in Frieza's case = A person who will travel the universe destroying each planet he finds. By power-scaling not even end of GT characters could destroy a galaxy in one blast.

Originally posted by carver9
Why wouldn't Cell know his own destructive power? Can you please stop basing things off of collateral damage... it doesn't work like that. We also know that DBZ attacks are only at its peek when the blast explodes... Cell and Gohun blast did not explode.

Cell stating what his blast was/is capable of doing isn't hyperbole... its him knowing his limits.
Because he has no way of knowing his final limits and never did or has seen an attack like that to compare to. Gohan's wave has the same end result that Cell's wave would have; shooting a blast into space. Think about this, both Cell and the Z-fighters expressed fear when he or Goku were going to use a fully charged wave and commented on how a full powered wave would destroy the Earth. So SSJ1 is a planet buster and the jump to SSJ2 makes you a galaxy buster? The difference between SSJ Goku and SSJ2 Gohan is nowhere near that massive.

Originally posted by carver9
I think you are getting the figures wrong in regards to outracing a nuclear explosion while being in the heart of it. That alone is at least Mach 500+ and that happened from a none full powered Goku.
Ah here we go, 400 mph is outer blast and wind speed. The central blast is around Mach 45, where did you get Mach 500+ from? Also what makes you assume that a blast from Frieza works like our atomic bombs?

people stop saying silly things.goku wins and d.s. losses

..That actually hurt to read. But seriously, no. Even carver9, one of the biggest DBZ supporters here, agrees that Goku loses.

The battle doesn't require discussing.

Originally posted by BloodRain
..That actually hurt to read. But seriously, no. Even carver9, one of the biggest DBZ supporters here, agrees that Goku loses.

The battle doesn't require discussing.
how you always reply fast?do you get an email every time i post??anyway goku wins with universal spirit bomb he will be able to charge it fast

Fast?

lol

How long do you think it would take Goku to charge it?

And here I was thinking I was one of the slower posters around here ^^

Guessing it takes more than a second to charge, way too long.

goku can do an instant kamehameha just like with cell and attack d.s.or a full power dragon fist.those attacks can be charged in 1 second cuz they require only gokus ki.goku can charge the universal spirit bomb that requires the whole universe ki in planet namek for example and combine the spirit bomb with insant transmission and destroy d.s.

dont forget that goku has the dragonballs in his body!!

also goku can use the black star balls wich summons the black star shenron who is red and much bigger than earths shenron porunga and black star shenron combined.he also has no limits so he can grant any wish.goku will just say "remove d.s. from existance" .THE END

If he can't fully charge his blast its pointless here, nor is Dragon Fist a big deal. So Goku's going to flee to another planet to charge? Well if DS doesn't just go over and snap his neck then he can simple avoid the Bomb. Remember his massively FTL speeds? And dont forget that DS can't die if you only destroy his body, his regeneration alone is far better than Buu's.

Thats IF he can gather all the black star balls before DS kills him. Or IF DS for some reason sits there for a few mins to allow him to summon and make his wish. And that IF we're counting GT as canon.

goku is also massively FTL .as i told you he has the dragonball on his body.goku will charge the universal spirit bomb before he encounters d.s. then he will search for him do the instant transmission and throw the sirit bomb.goku can also wish for immortality like garli jr.and about the black star balls goku will make his wish before his battle starts

No.. he isn't. You have no proof for this. Dragon Balls in his body means nothing, and wishing 'before' a match is not how we do things, nor are these two things canon. We don't do things before a match unless prep is involved, reason being I can just say DS blows up Goku's planet before he even realises theres a match. And it doesn't say who's betting in a fight that way.

"And dont forget that DS can't die if you only destroy his body, his regeneration alone is far better than Buu's."

there are many proofs that goku is massively ftl.just watch dragonball.goku wins

''And dont forget that DS can't die if you only destroy his body, his regeneration alone is far better than Buu's.'' He can't win.

>__> Child I know more about DBZ than you, ya havnt even read the manga. Mange > Anime in feats.

DB is Mach <10
Start of DBZ is Mach 15
End of DBZ is (apparently) Mach 1000+

Mercenary Tao was easily Mach 14+ though.

>__> Child I know more about DBZ than you, ya havnt even read the manga. Mange > Anime in feats.

shut up !!!your db knowledge isnt as near as mine.after the android saga almost very new villain was massively ftl.and some fighters are also ftl like goku vegeta gohan.gotenks is also ftl.goku wont destroy just d.s. body he will destroy and his spirit

So Karagiannis, I cannot help but notice you probably should not post here. Because you're really bad at it.

Just a friendly suggestion.

I'd wager my 10 years of watching DB/Z/GT multiple times and reading the manga outweighs watching the series piled with pure guesswork and a lack of understanding of FTL feats.

Can you even prove that they're FTL+ by then or are you just saying it 'cause you think it is? And lol at Goku destroying a spirit.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Mercenary Tao was easily Mach 14+ though.
Oh right from the pillar throw/jump. Consistency must not be perfect if Goku at the Sayian saga was only Ma15 max..

Well to be fair Tao only had to make a sudden burts of speed, compared to Goku who had to sustain it.

That said, yeah, DB(Z) is not the most consistent series.

its seem that is been a long time since you watched or read dragonball.goku has the dragonball in his body and this means becoming immortal and have unlimited power stamina and ki

The long time of a few months ago? And it seems youve never read the manga, and manga > all other sources.

Only (hopefully) gonna say this one more time: 1) GT is not canon to the mange thus its feats do not count unless stated by the thread maker. 2) Goku can not destroy someones astral and spiritual forms or jump to 3 dimensions to kill DS.

Also, the nature of the Dispell Bound would neuter Goku. It would nullify his ki since Goku himself doesn't have it or any other sort of defense to counter it (E.G. Lighthawk Wings).

Originally posted by BloodRain
The long time of a few months ago? And it seems youve never read the manga, and manga > all other sources.


I find it odd that many DBZ fanboys have never read the manga.
They rabidly trump the anime but have never viewed the original work.

everybody shut up.i have read the manga!!!!!!!!!!i dont care if gt is not a manga or that some scenes in the anime didnt seen in the manga.everything counts filler episdos are real and gt is a real anime we can use it all we want!

You'd think that they would.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
everybody shut up.i have read the manga!!!!!!!!!!
..Sure you have.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
i dont care
And we don't care if you don't care. This is how its done whether you like it or not. Stop insisting on using non-canon material if the OP hasn't allowed it.

can your braun understand that scenes in the anime that are not shown in the manga are real and not fan fiction?and the fact that dbgt hasnt got a manga matter?NO gt is a REAL anime.stop caring only about the manga!the anime count and thats final.goku wins end of the discussion

Well I keep a brain where you have that braun ^^ anyhow you obviously don't understand the concept of canon. Nor do you get that only the thread maker can decide if we can use non-canon material, if not we go by the rules here.. not by what you want.

Failed to understand canon, failed prove FTL, failed to prove spiritual attacks, failed to prove astral attacks, failed to put up a good argument, failed to do anything but show blind fanboy tendencies.

Anything else to add besides "Goku wins cos I said so"? If not this thread is over besides the topic carver9 and myself are having. Good day to you sir.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
everybody shut up.i have read the manga!!!!!!!!!!i dont care if gt is not a manga or that some scenes in the anime didnt seen in the manga.everything counts filler episdos are real and gt is a real anime we can use it all we want!

Wow, your spirit has truly been broken!

Originally posted by Karagiannis
can your braun understand that scenes in the anime that are not shown in the manga are real and not fan fiction?and the fact that dbgt hasnt got a manga matter?NO gt is a REAL anime.stop caring only about the manga!the anime count and thats final.goku wins end of the discussion

It's not a matter of whether or not it's real. It's a matter of it being a canonical work (I.E. Akira Toriyama's vision).

Originally posted by BloodRain

Failed to understand canon, failed prove FTL, failed to prove spiritual attacks, failed to prove astral attacks, failed to put up a good argument, failed to do anything but show blind fanboy

im pretty sure that the thread maker will allow gt and filler episode cuz he supports dragonball.almost everyone after the android saga is ftl.spiritual attack=spirit bomb.astral=super kamehameha.goku wins

Originally posted by Karagiannis
im pretty sure that the thread maker will allow gt and filler episode cuz he supports dragonball.almost everyone after the android saga is ftl.spiritual attack=spirit bomb.astral=super kamehameha.goku wins

In this regard I agree. The thread maker would certainly intend for GT to count. Most probably anyway. It just has the unfortunate side effect of not changing the outcome of this fight.

I have never seen the spirit bomb destory someones spirit.

I'm actually not sure on how th word astral is being used in this thread. My guess is of the stars, so I suppose any physical attack would in theory cause harm to him. If it is connected in any sense to astral projection, then Goku cannot harm him.

Not that Goku really stands a chance here any who.

See the thing is youre expecting us to take your word that they are FTL after the Android saga. You'll need to show us why you think this. For instance:

DS flew to the center of the galaxy from Earth in under 4 years, so he's FTL - ✓
Everyone after the Android saga is FTL - 〤

Spirit Bomb is just the name, not what it effects. In fact its real name, Genki Dama, means Energy Ball in Japanese. Nothing to do with spirits. Where did you get the idea that a Super Kamehameha can touch astral being? Even if, Goku would have to do these attacks 'at the same time.'

On the other hand, like said already, DS can destroy galaxies by tripping over.

@Aura: "Judas Priest: Destroys the eternal atoms of the user (attacks atoms on physical, astral and spiritual level)" An attack like this is what can put someone like DS down. Astral=soul for them which is different to spirit.

i dont care what you saying d.s never destroyd a galaxy so its not sure if he can.but its sure that he cant destroy the universe just like buuhan.as i said he will collapse dimmension and in the dimmension he will collapse there will be d.s. 3 atoms with that attack d.s. body will also be destroyed and if theres no universe how he will live?anyway just as i said almost everyone after the andoird saga is ftl its so obvious!

i dont undersatnd why you beleive that d.s. would win!!!!its silly

also d.s hasnt got physical strengh one full power puch from goku would crush him

Buu's not in the match nor is the full version of that attack canon and DS's atoms are in 3 different dimensions, not one.

If its obvious post a video or a scan showing FTL movements and I'll gladly take a look, make haste.

Some angels destroyed a galaxy by flying past it, there power is nothing compared to DS.
Also a character split the Earth apart with a single punch, DS is stronger than him by a far.

Ah I see. So Kamehameha can do exactly nil. As one would expect.

d.s. never destroyd a galaxy

You're not understanding the whole interdimentional, universal threat thing about D.S are you? Goku never had galaxy destroying powers BTW

Goku can't survive in space, has a Spirit Bomb that barely crippled a planet, and has died 2 times. I'm not sure who said this, but I'll reitterate that D.S has to be destroyed simutaneously in seperate dimensions and last time I checked, Goku can't be at two places at once no matter how fast he is.

Sorry...Goku's a legend and all but he looses!

DS vs Uriel, during their fight they accidentally destroyed the Black Abyss which has the mass of 5 to 50 million stars AKA the size of a small galaxy. Full force and either could destroy our galaxy. Later Uriel's powers increased by 130x, and DS can still beat this. Not a galaxy buster, eh?

Satan destroying a galaxy by walking through it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/Rei-Kai/satan_galaxy.jpg

BloodRain where did you read Bastard?

I could not find any translations that could even take me to Anthrax.

Not long started the manga tbh, site I'm using only goes up to chapter 137.

Still higher than what I have read to! I believe.

Thank you penisbutt.

Originally posted by BloodRain

Some angels destroyed a galaxy by flying past it, there power is nothing compared to DS.
Also a character split the Earth apart with a single punch, DS is stronger than him by a far.

DS was the one who did the Earth splitting punch to Konron but yeah.

I don't recall the angels destroying a galaxy by flying past it, though. I've read all of the manga and never saw this.

Originally posted by NemeBro

I could not find any translations that could even take me to Anthrax.

OBD's Bastard!! discussion has pretty much all of the manga, including the volumes Dead Sea Scans and Viz (cancelled after 19) never got to.

goku can destroy mupliple galaxies if he want but his is not like d.s. who is not a "good" guy

Originally posted by Karagiannis
goku can destroy mupliple galaxies if he want but his is not like d.s. who is not a "good" guy

I know Goku is more than capable of destroying a planet but... multiple galaxies? Proof it.

Originally posted by Esomark
I don't recall the angels destroying a galaxy by flying past it, though. I've read all of the manga and never saw this.
Mixed up angels with archangel Satan.

satan didnt destroyd the galaxy with his power.he is HUGE!!!!!!he was just flying and he was crushing the planets he didnt attacked them its like great ape vegeta walking and there is a building in front of him he will destroy it of course but not with his power but his size.!anyway if kid buu sint a universal buser then he is for sure a multy galaxy buster.goku is stronger that him so he is a multy galaxy buster too

Originally posted by Karagiannis
anyway if kid buu sint a universal buser then he is for sure a multy galaxy buster.goku is stronger that him so he is a multy galaxy buster too


Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Proof it.