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They fight in an adamantium cube with dimensions 50 x 50 x 50 feet.



http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/3000/2267/105145-hulk_400.jpg http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/2000/1445/137385-juggernaut_400.jpg

versus

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/8000/7607/178257-thanos_400.jpg http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/3000/2349/159713-darkseid_400.jpg

They would never beat the Juggernaut

Storm wins.

i0xxgT2nj7k

Za Warudo ftw. evillaugh WRRRRYYYYYYY!!!!!

Hulk and juggs wouldnt die but they would lose again and again and again

In a pure slugfest they'll have a hard time with Juggernaut

Hulk get's knocked out with one punch then its thanos and ds vs juggs.

i can imagine jugs bouncing like a superball around the cube with his feild up

Thanos and Darkseid would OWNZ Juggernaut and Hulk.

I jugg's can conivince cytorrack to lend him his full power he might have a chance.

This fight is ended by DS and Thanos, by knocking both Hulk and Juggs completely out of fighting range early on.

so....its a Stalemate-type win.

Hulk and Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Larceny
Hulk and Juggernaut.
where the heck have u been?

Originally posted by Priest
where the heck have u been?

What you mean?

Originally posted by Larceny
What you mean?
i hvent seen u post in a while

KMC stupidity loses, Hulk and Juggy win pretty easy.

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
KMC stupidity loses, Hulk and Juggy win pretty easy.

The irony.

Are you a sock?

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
KMC stupidity loses, Hulk and Juggy win pretty easy.

Nah. Hulk's killed. Juggernaut's batted around till Thanos and Darkseid die of old age.

Originally posted by Soljer
Nah. Hulk's killed. Juggernaut's batted around till Thanos and Darkseid die of old age.

Sounds like a win for Cain and Hulk to me.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Sounds like a win for Cain and Hulk to me.

Nope.

It's a win for the Juggernaut, though.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Sounds like a win for Cain and Hulk to me.

lol interesting way to look at it juggs wins by out living them.

Isn't Juggs like, completely invulnerable to physical harm, and has like, limitless strength?

What the hell happened to MBruce?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Isn't Juggs like, completely invulnerable to physical harm, and has like, limitless strength?
His strength isnt limitless it is just REALLY high
And he can be hurt by cosmic powers, magic and EXTREME amounts of pyshical force.

I mean two planets smashing together level of force

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
His strength isnt limitless it is just REALLY high
And he can be hurt by cosmic powers, magic and EXTREME amounts of pyshical force.

I mean two planets smashing together level of force I thought his strength was tied to his will?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I thought his strength was tied to his will?
His strength is tied to his conviction... close enough to will i suppose

Originally posted by Soljer
Nope.

It's a win for the Juggernaut, though.

He's on a team

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
His strength is tied to his conviction... close enough to will i suppose Both are perty much the same thing. In a slug fest, I see no reason why he doesn't take it.

Originally posted by Soljer
Nah. Hulk's killed. Juggernaut's batted around till Thanos and Darkseid die of old age.

Sounds true if this is only slug fest... so.. i guess team juggy hulk wins

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Both are perty much the same thing. In a slug fest, I see no reason why he doesn't take it.
He is still human underneath

there is only so much conviction one person can have

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
He is still human underneath

there is only so much conviction one person can have True, but even normally his strength greatly exceeds 100 tons, I think he could pull it off. How strong is Thanos btw, I have little info on him.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
True, but even normally his strength greatly exceeds 100 tons, I think he could pull it off. How strong is Thanos btw, I have little info on him. Nobody has any solid info on his strength

There is a debate to weather he is always amping or not

He is easily 1k ton level thou

If i really had to guess i would say 3-7 times stronger then thor w/ belt

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
He is still human underneath

there is only so much conviction one person can have

Where are you getting that from?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Where are you getting that from?
Cain is a human with mystical enchantments

His conviction can still be broken. Look at how long he was depowered...

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Nobody has any solid info on his strength

There is a debate to weather he is always amping or not Do you mean amping in fights?
Because, there is no proof he does this...

Except, maybe once.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Cain is a human with mystical enchantments

His conviction can still be broken. Look at how long he was depowered...

That has nothing to do with his conviction. Cyttorak cut him off completely.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That has nothing to do with his conviction. Cyttorak cut him off completely. Except, he seemed to be on Cy's side...

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Except, he seemed to be on Cy's side...

Really? I never actually saw the depowerment but I always got the impression that Cyttorak didn't want him to be using his power anymore.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Do you mean amping in fights?
Because, there is no proof he does this...

Except, maybe once.
Thanos has comisc power right?
Everytime he uses it his hands or eyes get all glowy.
His has are almost always glowing when he is fighting. Ergo. He amps when he is fighting

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Except, he seemed to be on Cy's side...

Got the impression he fell out of favor iwth cytorrak and got cut off.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Thanos has comisc power right?
Everytime he uses it his hands or eyes get all glowy.
His has are almost always glowing when he is fighting. Ergo. He amps when he is fighting

Same thing can be said about the surfer.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Got the impression he fell out of favor iwth cytorrak and got cut off.
He did

Because he lost conviction

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Really? I never actually saw the depowerment but I always got the impression that Cyttorak didn't want him to be using his power anymore. Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Got the impression he fell out of favor iwth cytorrak and got cut off. Talking about current (I am).


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Thanos has comisc power right?
Everytime he uses it his hands or eyes get all glowy.
His has are almost always glowing when he is fighting. Ergo. He amps when he is fighting Glowy hands seemingly means he just puts some energy behind his punches.
It doesn't seem like he amps.

The only time he looked like he amped, is when he was fighting his clone.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Same thing can be said about the surfer.
Surfer has already said he amps

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Isn't Juggs like, completely invulnerable to physical harm, and has like, limitless strength?
He seems to be limited to whatever Cyttorak grants him. Every time he's been powered up, it's been implied that it was Cyttorak giving him more power.

I'm also not completely sold that he's fully invulnerable to all physical harm. I believe he does have a limit, but it's a just a very high limit.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Talking about current (I am).

What?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What? Current Juggy.
Back in Cy's arms, powered up again, you know the deal.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Current Juggy.
Back in Cy's arms, powered up again, you know the deal.

Nothing has changed he could still be depowered if ds and thanos broke his will/ conviction

I mean look who he is fighting here?

It might take centuries but he goes down

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Current Juggy.
Back in Cy's arms, powered up again, you know the deal.

Why did you enter a conversation about his depowering then?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Why did you enter a conversation about his depowering then? Because I felt like it.

Juggernaut has never been harmed by a physical force or even a cosmic force in comics, 616 continuity.

And they changed the way Cyttorak is. At first, in a Doc Strange comic, Cy didn't care whether Cain as good or bad, it was all done in his name.

Alot can be argued that Cain can increase his strength when he wants something bad enough.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Because I felt like it.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Juggernaut has never been harmed by a physical force or even a cosmic force in comics, 616 continuity.
Which doesn't mean he's completely impervious to harm, especially when it's strongly implied he's been hurt by Vision and Thor before.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Alot can be argued that Cain can increase his strength when he wants something bad enough.
Every time he's been powered up, it was stated it was an outside source. Then you have every time where he could've increased his strength but never did.

I don't see what could be argued in his case that he can summon more strength on his own.

Originally posted by Accel
Which doesn't mean he's completely impervious to harm, especially when it's strongly implied he's been hurt by Vision and Thor before.


People are saying he can be which has yet to be proven. By harmed I mean he is physically damaged, which hasn't happened. That Thor comic was PIS. That writer didn't know Juggernaut's character enough. He even called Cain a mutant, which he isn't. Besides, he was jarred, not really obtaining any injuries against either one of those people.

Remeber it is a comic after all, and in these comics invulnurability shouldn't be that hard to believe.

Originally posted by Accel
Every time he's been powered up, it was stated it was an outside source. Then you have every time where he could've increased his strength but never did.

See here is the funny thing, the one time he has been "powered up" as you say, even if that were true it wouldn't be an outside source. Cyttorak and the Crimson Cosmos is his power source. The dialogue supports the claims of increased focus and rage draws more power to him from the Cosmos and/or Cyttoark.

Just want to point something out...

When WWHuc hit Jugg's helmet and dented it, Juggy made a little cry out, which seemed like pain...

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
It could have been human reaction, or a surprise reaction. Imagine when someone fake punches you in the gut(not actually hitting you). Sometimes people react to that, as if they were actually hit. (Not really going through all the emotions, but letting out an "hmph".)
Why exactly would an invulnerable person act like that if a hit was coming?

Especially when he knows he's going to get hit... I mean, it is a fight, and he was hit in the head.

Don't have a scan on hand, but I'll steal Priest's.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0025.jpg

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Why exactly would an invulnerable person act like that if a hit was coming?
Especially when he knows he's going to get hit... I mean, it is a fight, and he was hit in the head.


Remember Cain, just before that scene, just got his ass handed to him and beat into the ground. So he has been weak for a while and not really used to being invulnerable. That really kind of looks like he is grunting from being pushed back.

It is like someone getting hit with water from a hose, the water doesn't hurt you but you'll have a similar reaction.

It is also the same as this scan. Hulk got hit by Wolverine and made a reaction and sound. But he is unharmed in anyway. It could also be the way an artist draws.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4886/hulk454um1.gif

Originally posted by Accel
Except Hulk being KOed by a snake is nothing like saying Juggernaut can be or has been hurt with enough physical force, espceially consider one has direct contradictions to it happening while the other one doesn't.

And this was written by the same guy who stated that his durability is mostly derived form his shield, which pretty much suggests Cain had his shield up at the time he took that blast.

In neither comic did it flat out state that Juggernaut's durability is tied to his force field. I went back and read the second fight and his hammer negated all magic, so it could have also taken about from his bodies ability to take hits. Noticed that he didn't have any actual injuries. His brain was jarred.



I never claimed one was PIS and the other wasn't. But in that first fight nothing happened out of the ordinary to call PIS.



I never said Cy actually gave him the power up. You said "History has shown", which it hasn't. This was like it has happened more than once. I replied that if it were true then it only happened once.



Here is the iffy part. Cain could have meant that something is making him want to get to his target. And in wanting it Cain got stronger. Not because Cy gave him more strength.



The power could have always been there for Cain to take. But sense he activated the gem earlier and the mind control didn't take over, he never learned how to use the power properly.

It was also mentioned in a comic in the 70's that Cain said he was getting stronger while fighting the Hulk.

That second fight and the fact that it was implied that the shield is the source of his indestructibility is PIS. You are probably one of few if any that think that way. Cain has been said in comics and by writers that he is basically indestructible. And Thors punches aren't going to affect him even with out his shield. It was the only way for the writer to have Thor "win"

Cain said something is drawing me there and I will march through anything to get through it. He could have easily been referring to him wanting to get there and in doing so got stronger. Remember this is the way Juggernaut is supposed to be.

Here is something else to help out my arguement.

This is something from the EDITORS which you seem to be putting so much trust into right now.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7840/juggyvote1zo7.jpg

I am done for now, it is 4:45 a.m.

The fact that other than the times in that those Spidey and Thor comics he hasn't used his shield. He took a Planet splitting blast from Cyclops and didn't budge he laughed it off.



And yet things like Hulk losing to a 20 foot snake and losing to Spider-Man the way he did and it shouldn't have happened. Are you saying that Thor punches that much harder than Hulk? Every time Juggs and Hulk have fought, there was no shield.



Read the 8th Day arc again. This is what was supposed to happen. The Cain that beat down Thor and had a fight with a fellow exemplar, was the greatest fury ever unleashed on Earth, was the way Juggernaut was supposed to be. This also happened without his shield.



You mentioned Defalco, who was an editor in the Spidey comic. And no you cannot sway the editors opinions. After the War Hulk comic the editor had to correct some of the Hulk fans. I don't know where you get that you could have easily swayed their opinion.

If Onslaught was able to pwn Juggernaut in one move, I don't see why Thanos and Darksied can't pimp slap him to oblivion

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
If Onslaught was able to pwn Juggernaut in one move, I don't see why Thanos and Darksied can't pimp slap him to oblivion

That was a weakened Juggernaut. I am not saying he would have won.

For info on that read Malibu's run on the All New Exiles, in which Cain was sent to a different dimension where his power was reduced greatly along with everyone else in that dimension.

I don't see Hulk dieing at all unless they can revert him back too banner. otherwise this is pretty stalemate.

In fights with powerful characters, his armor has been damaged and/or his helmet was destroyed or knocked off.



No he hasn't. The time he might have taken the same blast was in WWH tie-in. Even then he took alot of damage and he wasn't laughing it off.



No, Juggs has taken plenty of hits stronger than what Thor can do and without his shield.



Cy was never stated to have powered him up.



See now you're pulling crap out of your ass. The feat of him taking the Godblast doesn't lose any credibility because it is within his character to take such hits. The writer knew enough to have Cain compete with Thor.

Uncannyxmen.net
Powers and Abilities: unlimited strength, endurance and invulnerability to physical harm...



No that does not mean you can change their opinions.

I have noticed that in every topic with Juggernaut you do your best to point out this same argument. What is your problem with Juggernaut's character.

If this is a slugfest, Then Juggs wont' have use of his shield. that is one. And two, Thanos and DS would likely over power his enchantment of durablity. He's NEVER fought anyone of that magnitude of might combined. Hulk is knocked out in the first few pico seconds by a speed blitz from DS.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Hulk is knocked out in the first few pico seconds by a speed blitz from DS.

Nope.

Originally posted by Soljer
Nope.

Um Yeah. DS is as fast or faster than Superman in some cases of speed blitzes. What in the Hell is hulk going to do? He'd get knocked out before his rage could amp him up enough to get resistance and strength to actually help jugs.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um Yeah. DS is as fast or faster than Superman in some cases of speed blitzes. What in the Hell is hulk going to do? He'd get knocked out before his rage could amp him up enough to get resistance and strength to actually help jugs.

One pico second is one one millionth of a one millionth of second.

Throw down some speed feats that support Darkseid being able to take someone with high level durability, and an insane healing factor in under one one millionth of a one millionth of a second.

.

Originally posted by Soljer
One pico second is one one millionth of a one millionth of second.

Throw down some speed feats that support Darkseid being able to take someone with high level durability, and an insane healing factor in under one one millionth of a one millionth of a second.

.

DS has blitzed Superman many times. Superman's regular Durabily>>>>>>>>>>>>Hulk at calm lvl's durability. DS has also ***** smacked mantis, Desaad ( Who is powerful enough to take superman on in battle in disguise).

Blitzed? Lets see it.

I've seen him punch superman a few times - there was no evidence that he was doing it in pico seconds. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Blitzed? Lets see it.

I've seen him punch superman a few times - there was no evidence that he was doing it in pico seconds. .

In my argument, I showd DS blitzing Superman so fast, superman couldn't react. He was so strong that he was choking Superman. Superman comments on both his strength and his speed. SM>>>>HULk in terms of reaction speed, durability(at base lvls) and strength.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
In my argument, I showd DS blitzing Superman so fast, superman couldn't react. He was so strong that he was choking Superman. Superman comments on both his strength and his speed. SM>>>>HULk in terms of reaction speed, durability(at base lvls) and strength.

If you're so confident that it supports Darkseid being able to blitz someone as powerful, and durable as the hulk in less than one millionth of a millionth of a second, post the scan. You know you have tons of them for your Thanos battle(s).

You're just well aware that none of them portray Darkseid anywhere near as fast as you're trying to portray. Thanks. .

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Hulk is knocked out in the first few pico seconds by a speed blitz from DS.

Nope.



"speed blitzes" seem to be fanboy banter for:
"I cant think of a clearly defined reason for a win, so....speedblitz."

Hulks Durability>>>>>>>A few direct punches from DS.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Nope.



"speed blitzes" seem to be fanboy banter for:
"I cant think of a clearly defined reason for a win, so....speedblitz."

Not always. Superman and the Flash have evidence for their ability.

Darkseid doesn't.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Nope.



"speed blitzes" seem to be fanboy banter for:
"I cant think of a clearly defined reason for a win, so....speedblitz."

Hulks Durability>>>>>>>A few direct punches from DS.

you fail at logic. Hulk isn't that durable in calm states. He's been knocked out by far less than DS or Thanos. And lets be clear, DS could stand toe to toe with HUlk and knock him out. Seeing as how he is far the superior hand to hand fighter. I just said that speed blitz takes hulk out fast.

Originally posted by Soljer
Not always. Superman and the Flash have evidence for their ability.

Darkseid doesn't.

ORLY? I posted not one but at least three instances of DS superspeed. come again?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ORLY? I posted not one but at least three instances of DS superspeed. come again?

So...

Post his picosecond speed.

Pwetty pweeze?

Originally posted by Soljer
So...

Post his picosecond speed.

Pwetty pweeze?

He speed blitzed Superman At least twice from what I've posted. And He's acted in pico seconds in two scans I provided. check the thread out. i have to run.

Check the thread out? Your battlezone thread? I'm not about to fish through fifty pages again. .

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
you fail at logic. Hulk isn't that durable in calm states. He's been knocked out by far less than DS or Thanos. And lets be clear, DS could stand toe to toe with HUlk and knock him out. Seeing as how he is far the superior hand to hand fighter. I just said that speed blitz takes hulk out fast.

Nvr,
I for one would suggest Hulk is very likely to be at levels beyond any typical "calm" state status at the start of such a battle.

1. He is somehow paired with Juggernaut here, who he doesnt exactly get him in a friendly type mood...
2. Getting ready to take on Thanos again who has pissed him off in previous clashes....is also likely to further amp his mood beyond normal starting levels as well.

Regardless.. Hulk has gone toe to toe taking multiple strikes from Thanos before without any such "casual" or "early" KO's...
Therefore, I don't believe DS>>>>Thanos in strength for one second. If you think so, its your perogative.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
I don't believe DS>>>>Thanos in strength for one second. If you think so, its your perogative.

This is the thing.

Hulk has some pretty good feats.

The thing is that the best one arent quantifiable.

Therefore we must go off of what we know and powerscaling.

Both of these say Thanos > Hulk

But it also says Ds > Thanos

Originally posted by Gecko4lif

Both of these say Thanos > Hulk

But it also says Ds > Thanos

Hulk's durability vs. Thanos in previous fights clearly shows that DS aint Knocking Hulk out with a few early hits.
Thus the "speedblitzing" argument fails vs Hulk.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Hulk's durability vs. Thanos in previous fights clearly shows that DS aint Knocking Hulk out with a few early hits.
Thus the "speedblitzing" argument fails vs Hulk.
never said he would speed blitz

And trust me thanos hits hard... but not Ds hard

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
never said he would speed blitz

And trust me thanos hits hard... but not Ds hard

And I never said YOU did...you just jumped in and somehow assumed I was talking to you for some reason.

Which my be why I was responded to Nvrbeen's statment about the speedblitzing KO - not you.

Again at the very least... Thanos=DS in strength, and fighting ability if not more so.

Juggernaut wins, and yes he's seemingly completely invulnerable to physical harm. Yes he has the potential for limitless strength.

DS can't speedblitz.

Originally posted by Larceny
Juggernaut wins, and yes he's seemingly completely invulnerable to physical harm. Yes he has the potential for limitless strength.
Nah.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
And I never said YOU did...you just jumped in and somehow assumed I was talking to you for some reason.

Which my be why I was responded to Nvrbeen's statment about the speedblitzing KO - not you.

Again at the very least... Thanos=DS in strength, and fighting ability if not more so.

Fighting ability yes

strength no. Not even close.

The fact that you have a thanos signature obviously means you can objectively come at this.

You don't have any evidence. Dazed does not = physical injuries. His body was not damaged in the least.



No you can't prove it.



There is no evidence to support that Cain can take damage without his shield.



Neither is your opinion.



With the exception of the Thor issue, there is on panel evidence.



Read my damn post and understand it. I never said Juggernaut took a full blast from Cyclops.



It doesn't matter, Hulk Struggled to hold his ground. Then he struggled to step forward. Cain stood up right and laughed at it.



He doesn't need his shield to take those attacks. He didn't have it up when he fought Hulk all those times or other heavy hitters.



It is enough to say the writer didn't fully know of Juggernaut's capabilities.



No, there is only you who think his shield is the source of his durability.

I am done arguing back and forth with you. You keep posting the same crap over and over. You're not going to change your mind and I am not either.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You don't have any evidence. Dazed does not = physical injuries. His body was not damaged in the least.


Dazed means his brain was injured (if only slightly)

DS and Thanos win. Nothing to talk about. Hell if this where Superman and Thor, I'd still give them the win.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Dazed means his brain was injured (if only slightly)

But not like a actual scar or indentation. It was jarred back and forth.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
But not like a actual scar or indentation. It was jarred back and forth.
Still contact wih anything besides your cerebral fluid cause cell death

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DS and Thanos win. Nothing to talk about. Hell if this where Superman and Thor, I'd still give them the win.

Juggernaut.

Slugfest.

Two and two, my friend, two and two.

Originally posted by Soljer
Juggernaut.

Slugfest.

Two and two, my friend, two and two.
I know it's two and two. After Superman knocks Hulk out, Then he lends thor a hand and they over whelm juggs. And neither are as strong or durable as Thanos and DS. Juggs got knocked out by onslaught. And he still had his gem. So we know he can be knocked out.

.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DS and Thanos win. Nothing to talk about. Hell if this where Superman and Thor, I'd still give them the win.

Why? In a slugfest Juggernaut would smash them as well.

Originally posted by Larceny
Why? In a slugfest Juggernaut would smash them as well.
Harly not. Juggs isn't as strong as either as far as I'm concerned. He's just durable.

Accel, you're still wrong. Each of the "points" you posted can be rebutted with what I already posted. You seem to have trouble reading and understanding.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Harly not. Juggs isn't as strong as either as far as I'm concerned. He's just durable.

Stronger than both actually. As previously stated, Cain has the potential for unlimited strength. I don't feel like getting into a long discussion about it, so I'll give you this.

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/?action=view&current=Juggernautpower.jpg

"My poor deluded creature. It's not Cyttorak who restricts your power, my son; it's you."

Unlimited power, or unlimited strength? You choose.

Originally posted by Larceny
Stronger than both actually. As previously stated, Cain has the potential for unlimited strength. I don't feel like getting into a long discussion about it, so I'll give you this.

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/?action=view&current=Juggernautpower.jpg

"My poor deluded creature. It's not Cyttorak who restricts your power, my son; it's you."

Unlimited power, or unlimited strength? You choose.

Potential BS. Do you know how many characters have that? Superman and Wonder Woman held the wieght of eternity. Lobo held a box that was equal to the weight of the universe. Hulk clapped a cosmos away. He isn't stronger than Superman or Thor. Unless you can prove other wise, he's just a durable brick to be somewhere in the class 100 range. And not on the high end. maybe Middle.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Accel, you're still wrong. Each of the "points" you posted can be rebutted with what I already posted. You seem to have trouble reading and understanding.
"I don't think Juggernaut is invulnerable without his shield. His fight with Thor shows that."

"Of course he's invulnerable. That Thor fight was PIS. The writer called Cain a mutant so it doesn't count."

"How's it PIS? When has Cain ever been established as invulnerable specifically without the shield?"

"Lots of times!"

"Like when?"

"Like.. like lots of times!"

Originally posted by Accel
"I don't think Juggernaut is invulnerable without his shield. His fight with Thor shows that."

"Of course he's invulnerable. That Thor fight was PIS. The writer called Cain a mutant so it doesn't count."

"How's it PIS? When has Cain ever been established as invulnerable specifically without the shield?"

"Lots of times!"

"Like when?"

"Like.. like lots of times!"

Lol cute, altering a post to try and get at someone.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Potential BS. Do you know how many characters have that? Superman and Wonder Woman held the wieght of eternity. Lobo held a box that was equal to the weight of the universe. Hulk clapped a cosmos away. He isn't stronger than Superman or Thor. Unless you can prove other wise, he's just a durable brick to be somewhere in the class 100 range. And not on the high end. maybe Middle.

Why do I care? "Other" characters aren't relevant to this discussion.

Superman and WW didn't hold the weight of Eternity. The helped guide down the weight of a supposedly extremely heavy entity. This entity happened to weigh less than the moon. Not that it matters as thats completely irrelevant to Cain's potential for unlimited strength.

No he didn't.

Hulk = unlimited strength, although that feat is a tad bit exaggerated.

None of these counter the idea of Juggernauts potential for unlimited strength. You fail, yet again.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Lol cute, altering a post to try and get at someone.
It was basically our whole conversation in a nutshell.

Still waiting for the rebuttal that's supposed to prove me wrong (i.e. those instances I was referring to)

Originally posted by Larceny
Why do I care? "Other" characters aren't relevant to this discussion.

Superman and WW didn't hold the weight of Eternity. The helped guide down the weight of a supposedly extremely heavy entity. This entity happened to weigh less than the moon. Not that it matters as thats completely irrelevant to Cain's potential for unlimited strength.

No he didn't.

Hulk = unlimited strength, although that feat is a tad bit exaggerated.

None of these counter the idea of Juggernauts potential for unlimited strength. You fail, yet again.

Potential means shit on these boards. Show him using it. And Actually the Spectre weighted far more than the moon. He said he housed the entire consiousness of eternity. When he touches down on the earth, you dont' see him crushing the ground do you? Obviously he's got some kind of built in, do not destroy much needed celestial bodies button built in. The Juggernaut is NOT stronger than Superman nor is he stronger than Thor. You have yet to prove it. Hell, If he had unlimited strength, as you presume he does, then how the hell did his might swell a hundred fold in 8thday? Something unlmited can't get mightier. Duh.

Originally posted by Accel
It was basically our whole conversation in a nutshell.

Still waiting for the rebuttal that's supposed to prove me wrong (i.e. those instances I was referring to)

Nice try, like I said believe what you want. There is no proof. And believe it or not in comics writers and editors do make mistakes. That is one instance you dwell on, which really didn't make your argument any better. Sure Cains mind was jarred in that issue, but that is the only issue. Cain left that battle field unscathed and uninjured. That is the only way Thor could win. Everything you posted has a counter point posted earlier. Basically all you have posted is Thor ish this Thor ish that.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Nice try, like I said believe what you want. There is no proof. And believe it or not in comics writers and editors do make mistakes. That is one instance you dwell on, which really didn't make your argument any better. Sure Cains mind was jarred in that issue, but that is the only issue. Cain left that battle field unscathed and uninjured. That is the only way Thor could win. Everything you posted has a counter point posted earlier. Basically all you have posted is Thor ish this Thor ish that.
Which was much more than what you posted. You keep viewing this as PIS. Did it ever occur to you that the Thor fight was the defining moment of how Juggernaut's shield works?

Otherwise, if it doesn't directly contradict any thing, it can't possibly be PIS.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Potential means shit on these boards. Show him using it. And Actually the Spectre weighted far more than the moon. He said he housed the entire consiousness of eternity. When he touches down on the earth, you dont' see him crushing the ground do you? Obviously he's got some kind of built in, do not destroy much needed celestial bodies button built in. The Juggernaut is NOT stronger than Superman nor is he stronger than Thor. You have yet to prove it. Hell, If he had unlimited strength, as you presume he does, then how the hell did his might swell a hundred fold in 8thday? Something unlmited can't get mightier. Duh.

I already gave you all the proof you needed. His master blatantly stating he's not limiting his power. No limits = unlimited.

Do you even know what Eternity means? Forever, it has nothing to do with weight.

How bout he doesn't weigh nearly as much as you claim?

Cain Marko is stronger than both Superman and Thor.

I just provided proof. Whether or not you accept it, is not my problem.

Originally posted by Accel
Which was much more than what you posted. You keep viewing this as PIS. Did it ever occur to you that the Thor fight was the defining moment of how Juggernaut's shield works?

Otherwise, if it doesn't directly contradict any thing, it can't possibly be PIS.

I somewhat view it as this way, if the Godblast isn't mystical, Juggernaut would survive uninjured without the shield. Basically if it is just energy hitting him, then he would be okay. If it is mystical(they type to harm Juggernaut through magic) then he would need his shield to come out unscathed.

By the way there are comic labeling him as invincible. One time beast even said that he is still invulnurable without his shield.

Originally posted by Larceny
I already gave you all the proof you needed. His master blatantly stating he's not limiting his power. No limits = unlimited.

Do you even know what Eternity means? Forever, it has nothing to do with weight.

How bout he doesn't weigh nearly as much as you claim?

Cain Marko is stronger than both Superman and Thor.

I just provided proof. Whether or not you accept it, is not my problem.

That is your proof? What his master stated? OMG. His master doesn't even have unlimited might.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is your proof? What his master stated? OMG. His master doesn't even have unlimited might.

His master has the power to grant unlimited strength. As if you knew anything of Cyttorak in the first place.

Originally posted by Accel
Which was much more than what you posted. You keep viewing this as PIS. Did it ever occur to you that the Thor fight was the defining moment of how Juggernaut's shield works?

Otherwise, if it doesn't directly contradict any thing, it can't possibly be PIS.

That'd make sense if Cain's durability derived from his force field. However just as he isn't a mutant, his durability doesn't derive from his enchanted force field.

Originally posted by Larceny
His master has the power to grant unlimited strength. As if you knew anything of Cyttorak in the first place.

Could Cyttorak beat Galactus? And we know galactus doesn't have infinite power. Well can he? Can he beat Odin? Could he beat let's say, a celestial? how about eternity. Since you know, he just happens to have infinite power. Juggernaut has NOt one feat in his history to suggest he has infinite strength. Hell, He got a hundred fold boost in 8th day. that tells you right there he doesn't have infinite strength.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Could Cyttorak beat Galactus? And we know galactus doesn't have infinite power. Well can he? Can he beat Odin? Could he beat let's say, a celestial? how about eternity. Since you know, he just happens to have infinite power. Juggernaut has NOt one feat in his history to suggest he has infinite strength. Hell, He got a hundred fold boost in 8th day. that tells you right there he doesn't have infinite strength.

They've never fought. However Galactus was once briefly entangled by Cyttoraks indestructible crimson bands. The Bands that supposedly keep the Universe intact.

Infinite and Unlimited are two different things my friend. However Galactus does have a level of unlimited power just as Odin, and others do.

I don't know, he's never had the opportunity to fight any of the characters mentioned.

His fight with WWH does. He fought Savage Hulk on equal terms of strength, and did the same with the stronger WWH. Meaning that when the situation requires it, he can increase his strength. Cyttorak confirms this.

His power was increased by the same entity who grants his power all the time. The same Entity that stated he's put no bounds on Cain's power.

Originally posted by Larceny
They've never fought. However Galactus was once briefly entangled by Cyttoraks indestructible crimson bands. The Bands that supposedly keep the Universe intact.

Infinite and Unlimited are two different things my friend. However Galactus does have a level of unlimited power just as Odin, and others do.

I don't know, he's never had the opportunity to fight any of the characters mentioned.

His fight with WWH does. He fought Savage Hulk on equal terms of strength, and did the same with the stronger WWH. Meaning that when the situation requires it, he can increase his strength. Cyttorak confirms this.

His power was increased by the same entity who grants his power all the time. The same Entity that stated he's put no bounds on Cain's power. Putting no bounds on someone doesn't mean they have unlimtied power. Potential is just that. The Juggernaut has never shown to be stronger than thor or superman except in 8th day, where a specific amp is shown.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Putting no bounds on someone doesn't mean they have unlimtied power. Potential is just that. The Juggernaut has never shown to be stronger than thor or superman except in 8th day, where a specific amp is shown.

No bounds on power mean exactly what I've been saying the entire time. The potential for unlimited strength.

He's physically stronger than Thor, which has been shown in nearly every encounter and he's stronger than Superman.

In a pure slugfest Cain wins this fight.

Originally posted by Larceny
No bounds on power mean exactly what I've been saying the entire time. The potential for unlimited strength.

He's physically stronger than Thor, which has been shown in nearly every encounter and he's stronger than Superman.

In a pure slugfest Cain wins this fight.
Um no. He has not a feat. He hasn't proven to be stronger than thor. Just more resiliant. And no way in hell is he stronger than superman. Superman is also stronger than thor, so your argument doesn't hold up. What are his strength feats? has he bent adamantium? Pulled any planets? Cracked any skyfathers in the dome?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um no. He has not a feat. He hasn't proven to be stronger than thor. Just more resiliant. And no way in hell is he stronger than superman. Superman is also stronger than thor, so your argument doesn't hold up. What are his strength feats? has he bent adamantium? Pulled any planets? Cracked any skyfathers in the dome?

He has plenty. Dominating nearly every foe he's faced regardless of their physical stature, and amping his strength to the level of WWH are some pretty convincing feats to me.

Physically dominating Thor equates to him being stronger than Thor.

You're obviously are unaware of the definition of the term "resilient". Resilient being returning to the original form or position after being bent, compressed, or stretched. Nothing to do with why he's consistently shown as Thor's physical superior.

Superman being stronger than Thor is up for debate. However if Clark does happen to be Thor's physical superior, it's by a small margin.

Nope, just dominated all who's opposed him.

Originally posted by Larceny
He has plenty. Dominating nearly every foe he's faced regardless of their physical stature, and amping his strength to the level of WWH are some pretty convincing feats to me.

Physically dominating Thor equates to him being stronger than Thor.

You're obviously are unaware of the definition of the term "resilient". Resilient being returning to the original form or position after being bent, compressed, or stretched. Nothing to do with why he's consistently shown as Thor's physical superior.

Superman being stronger than Thor is up for debate. However if Clark does happen to be Thor's physical superior, it's by a small margin.

Nope, just dominated all who's opposed him.

The thing is dominating everybody he has fought doesnt mean much because he is no superman level beings in marvel for the most part

the closest off the top of my head is gladiator but even he is fractional compared to supes

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
The thing is dominating everybody he has fought doesnt mean much because he is no superman level beings in marvel for the most part

the closest off the top of my head is gladiator but even he is fractional compared to supes

Superman's power level is often times defined by Marvel characters.