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What do we think about people using the internet to steal peoples intellectual property?

Anyone here download? Do you think the issue is more complicated than in the statement above?

Are you asking for a download source? That's illegal man.

Good thing no one here does it

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Are you asking for a download source? That's illegal man.

Good thing no one here does it

Certainly not, I buy my comics.

Sorry, man, I'd answer your question, but I'm too busy downloading comics, selling drugs, stealing candy from babies, and performing drive-bys.

Downloading comics is so totally a gateway crime. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Sorry, man, I'd answer your question, but I'm too busy downloading comics, selling drugs, stealing candy from babies, and performing drive-bys.

Downloading comics is so totally a gateway crime. .

omg

Originally posted by Soljer
Sorry, man, I'd answer your question, but I'm too busy downloading comics, selling drugs, stealing candy from babies, and performing drive-bys.

Downloading comics is so totally a gateway crime. .

It's not about the crime it's what it does to the comics industry that is the problem.

Originally posted by Soljer
Sorry, man, I'd answer your question, but I'm too busy downloading comics, selling drugs, stealing candy from babies, and performing drive-bys.

Originally posted by Zebedee
What do we think about people using the internet to steal peoples intellectual property?

Anyone here download? Do you think the issue is more complicated than in the statement above?

*Downloads Civil War*

Some people in smaller countries don't get all the comics or get them late. That may be a reason for downloading. I by all my comics though.

I find time to download comics on the side when I'm not slinging yeh-yoh or hijacking cigarette & liquor shipments.

I was gonna choose option 2 "I'd like to buy more but I can't afford it so I download"
Until I noticed option three...

Originally posted by Soljer
Sorry, man, I'd answer your question, but I'm too busy downloading comics, selling drugs, stealing candy from babies, and performing drive-bys.

Downloading comics is so totally a gateway crime. . Comic book downloading is no laughing matter Soljer. It can become very addictive. My cousin started out downloading a few comics, before he knew it he was giving BJ's on the corner for Demonoid invitations.

Why would he need more then one?

Originally posted by Morridini
Why would he need more then one? His invitations were only temporary. Just enough to get the high. Pretty soon he started stealing. I woke up one morning to find he sold my damn box of Captain Crunch.

It's easy to say "Hey, don't download ! Just buy the comic and enjoy it" when you're living in Canada and such.

Many people in countries in which the comic books are barely (if) present don't have much of a choice . It's either don't read comic books and stop downloading them or download them (illegal as it may be) .

Although I disagree with the concept of having a comic store in your city or having methods of obtaining comics but instead of paying you just download them , it's not like you can condemn somebody without truly knowing their circumstances .

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
It's easy to say "Hey, don't download ! Just buy the comic and enjoy it" when you're living in Canada and such.

Many people in countries in which the comic books are barely (if) present don't have much of a choice . It's either don't read comic books and stop downloading them or download them (illegal as it may be) .

Although I disagree with the concept of having a comic store in your city or having methods of obtaining comics but instead of paying you just download them , it's not like you can condemn somebody without truly knowing their circumstances .

I agree, it's why I put a variety of choices in. I consider it theft but I understand some people have mitigating circumstances.

obviously i dont see a problem with it....contrary to popular belief it doesnt hurt the industry, and it doesnt snatch food off the makers plates...cuz it isnt like movies or music where you can burn your own copies at will...comics is a genre in which fans are always gonna want something they can touch, cuz after all digital comics cant accrue in value....i download like there is no f ****ing tomorrow, but im still an avid collector, even the stuff i pirate i later collect when they come out in TPB,,,this might be a strech but i submit that piracy actually helps the comic industry. for example, ive been exposed to a great deal of works i wouldnt normally f **** with, simply becuase ppl like DCP, and Scanstas bundle it with that i stuff i look forward to every Wednesday

Originally posted by manjaro
obviously i dont see a problem with it....contrary to popular belief it doesnt hurt the industry,

What do you base that on?

It hurts the industry when people have comic stores and possibilities to buy the comics yet they don't and download it from the internet . But it doesn't hurt when people who don't have the possibility to buy them download them from the internet .

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
It hurts the industry when people have comic stores and possibilities to buy the comics yet they don't and download it from the internet . But it doesn't hurt when people who don't have the possibility to buy them download them from the internet .

Mail order?

The loophole people aren't the problem (live in a different country, etc.). It's those who simply don't care enough about legality or the industry they are interested in to buy their comics.

Comic companies do fine financially. But when you see a marginally successful title cancelled, or if you try to break into the industry on any level and find it impossible, it's those sorts of fringe consequences that downloading creates.

I'd love to be able to show DL'ers just what they do, by stealing stuff of their that is valuble to them or took a lot of time. It never really seems to have moral consequences for some until they are immediately affected by it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The loophole people aren't the problem (live in a different country, etc.). It's those who simply don't care enough about legality or the industry they are interested in to buy their comics.

Comic companies do fine financially. But when you see a marginally successful title cancelled, or if you try to break into the industry on any level and find it impossible, it's those sorts of fringe consequences that downloading creates.

I'd love to be able to show DL'ers just what they do, by stealing stuff of their that is valuble to them or took a lot of time. It never really seems to have moral consequences for some until they are immediately affected by it.

How can you show them?

agree with digi

Originally posted by masterbruce
agree with digi Your back?

Crap.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Comic companies do fine financially.

Eclipse Bankrupt
Valiant Bankrupt
Defiant Bankrupt
Acclaim Bankrupt

etc. etc.

Oh and Marvel at the end of the nieties. Bankrupt, forcing them to change their business model. Comics are not what makes Marvels money. Character copyright and merchandising is.

Was downloading even around when Valiant were there?

Originally posted by Switch 07
Was downloading even around when Valiant were there?

Nope, it's in answer to the blanket statement comic companies do O.K.

Anything which reduces profit margins does adversely affect a company.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Eclipse Bankrupt
Valiant Bankrupt
Defiant Bankrupt
Acclaim Bankrupt

etc. etc.

Oh and Marvel at the end of the nieties. Bankrupt, forcing them to change their business model. Comics are not what makes Marvels money. Character copyright and merchandising is.

Like I said, fringe consequences. There's companies in any industry that regularly bite it or are bought out by larger companies. And there's still a fair number of indy labels that thrive. And those weren't necessarily caused by downloading, since there's other factors too.

But yeah, it's an example of the harm that can be caused, because even if indy comics aren't downloaded as much, there's a trickle-down affect to the smaller companies from the large ones.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Mail order?

Yeah that work's except that it is very expensive.
Of the comics I read I actually buy all three Spider-man titles, Punisher War Journal and Thor, and this gets quite expensive (or well, not that expensive, between 6 US dollars per comic, but it stops me from buying everything I wanna read. And if I want comics older then one month (differs form comic to comic) I have to use E-bay, where certain comics might be as much as 20$ a piece when counting shipping.) Thus I only buy the 5 titles mentioned.

My country stopped selling DC comics.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
My country stopped selling DC comics.

really? dang...

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
My country stopped selling DC comics. relocate?

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
My country stopped selling DC comics.
Wow. The Marvel fanboys must have taken over the government.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
My country stopped selling DC comics.

I agree with MasterBruce.

Either you move to a country that HASN'T stopped selling DC, or you just go without.

Yeah, comics are that important. .

Oh, I just got finished reading a downloaded comic. Time to go kick a pregnant woman in the stomach. See you guys later.

Originally posted by Soljer
I agree with MasterBruce.

Either you move to a country that HASN'T stopped selling DC, or you just go without.

Yeah, comics are that important. .

Oh, I just got finished reading a downloaded comic. Time to go kick a pregnant woman in the stomach. See you guys later.

If your country doesn't even get them, its not like he will be paying for the comics some other way.

He's not losing them money if he wont buy them anyway.

Originally posted by Validus
Wow. The Marvel fanboys must have taken over the government.

Nah, its just quality control!

I have downloaded version of almost every comic I own because I can't get to the comic shop until the weekends and I'm too impatient to wait that long. It's better that way I think, my actual comics stay in their mylar and I can re-read the downloaded versions when ever I want with out damaging the real version.

Originally posted by Validus
Wow. The Marvel fanboys must have taken over the government.

Yeah...


It was actually a couple of years ago.


But thankfully I bought The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Returns, which were sold in my local store...

The last DC comic I bought was some Superman issue involving the Prankster...

Originally posted by Soljer
Oh, I just got finished reading a downloaded comic. Time to go kick a pregnant woman in the stomach. See you guys later.

You're only touchy about this because you are engaged in criminal activity. Respect society and rules.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
You're only touchy about this because you are engaged in criminal activity. Respect society and rules.

I'm not touchy about it.

Yeah, I download comics. Every single comic I own, I've downloaded as well.

If I hear something on the forums about "OMG in BS comics 1299, so and so did XXXX," I'll likely go verify.

I support the industry. I just make light of it because I think it's hilarious how much you parallel your previous socks, yet still haven't been banned.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nah, its just quality control!

I have downloaded version of almost every comic I own because I can't get to the comic shop until the weekends and I'm too impatient to wait that long. It's better that way I think, my actual comics stay in their mylar and I can re-read the downloaded versions when ever I want with out damaging the real version.

Same here.

Plus, their scans look a lot prettier than me taking my hard copies to kinkos.

Originally posted by Soljer
I'm not touchy about it.

Yeah, I download comics. Every single comic I own, I've downloaded as well.

If I hear something on the forums about "OMG in BS comics 1299, so and so did XXXX," I'll likely go verify.

I support the industry. I just make light of it because I think it's hilarious how much you parallel your previous socks, yet still haven't been banned.

I think you seem touchy.

What socks?

You forgot the "Whirly is a ***" option........

Originally posted by Soljer
Same here.

Plus, their scans look a lot prettier than me taking my hard copies to kinkos.

For sure. Someone else spent a lot of time scanning their comics, so why would I waste my time scaning my own, when I can download a comic a full comic in 30 seconds? It would take more time to scan a single page.

Originally posted by Estacado
You forgot the "Whirly is a ***" option........

No i didn't, that would have nothing to do with the topic. Do you read comics or illegal downloads. As if I have to ask. Well done by the way for spelling three stars, most swear words use four.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
For sure. Someone else spent a lot of time scanning their comics, so why would I waste my time scaning my own, when I can download a comic a full comic in 30 seconds? It would take more time to scan a single page.

Perhaps because scanning your own, unless you redistribute them is not illegal, wheras downloading is. Just a thought, just putting it out there, you know.

Most of the comics I DL are ones that I own. I DL them for the scans and easier reading. I do DL comics that I can't find, or comics to see if they are good.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Most of the comics I DL are ones that I own. I DL them for the scans and easier reading. I do DL comics that I can't find, or comics to see if they are good.

So you break copyright "a bit" Ptr...... Can we say gray areas exist? Can you murder someone a little? Complicated......

" I download because I live in a nation like Norway"

Stop harassing me

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Perhaps because scanning your own, unless you redistribute them is not illegal, wheras downloading is. Just a thought, just putting it out there, you know.

I'm pretty sure its not illegal if you own the comic you are downloading.

Sides p2p downloading is legal in Canada. You can download all you want, it's legal, uploading on the other hand is illegal.

Originally posted by llagrok
" I download because I live in a nation like Norway"

Stop harassing me

I was giving you a justification and not an harrassment. I understand that where things are not available legally a black market will thrive. That is how supply and demand works. In this case the internet provides you with a free source of the product you crave. Not such much a black market, but a victimless crime as you are unable to buy the product easily anyway.

So we can have grey areas. Let's expand..........

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm pretty sure its not illegal if you own the comic you are downloading.

Sides p2p downloading is legal in Canada. You can download all you want, it's legal, uploading on the other hand is illegal.

It's illegal in Canada to put the stuff on..... It's a strange law. It would still be a breach of copyright and perhaps intellectual ownership.

I think it would still be illegal even if you owned the product. Because it would not be that version you were downloading and it is that which would lead to the distinction.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
It's illegal in Canada to put the stuff on..... It's a strange law. It would still be a breach of copyright and perhaps intellectual ownership.

I think it would still be illegal even if you owned the product. Because it would not be that version you were downloading and it is that which would lead to the distinction.

Technically it's illegal to distribute copyright material... but the Surpreme Court said in order for you to distrupt copyright material you need to actively announce that you have copyright material avialable for copy, like sending out advertisment and such. You can still have a share file with copyrighted material on p2p network.

Canada rocks.

I download all of my comics and don't feel bad about it in any way, shape, or form. I do have a few hard copy's from back when I was a teenager but it's been somewhere in the area of 10 years since I last paid money for a comic book. The way I see it, the companies lose ZERO dollars from my downloads for one very simple reason...I'm too poor to buy them. I'm married with a kid and live month to month as far as the bills go, so if I didn't download any comics I wouldn't GET any comics(which is why there's a 9 year gap between my last purchase and when I started downloading a year or so ago). Thus the comic industry doesn't lose any money from my downloading because they wouldn't get the money anyway due to the money going to bills and such. If I ever have throwaway cash that isn't already allocated to necessities I'll consider forking over the bucks for a few issues but for now I'm forced to make do with what's economical.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I download all of my comics and don't feel bad about it in any way, shape, or form. I do have a few hard copy's from back when I was a teenager but it's been somewhere in the area of 10 years since I last paid money for a comic book. The way I see it, the companies lose ZERO dollars from my downloads for one very simple reason...I'm too poor to buy them. I'm married with a kid and live month to month as far as the bills go, so if I didn't download any comics I wouldn't GET any comics(which is why there's a 9 year gap between my last purchase and when I started downloading a year or so ago). Thus the comic industry doesn't lose any money from my downloading because they wouldn't get the money anyway due to the money going to bills and such. If I ever have throwaway cash that isn't already allocated to necessities I'll consider forking over the bucks for a few issues but for now I'm forced to make do with what's economical. I understand your point of view and having a family myself (some days of the week) I can see how you would have priorities which come first. Don't you consider you are getting someone elses "work" and "intellectual property" for nothing. Not trying to make you feel bad but you wouldn't steal food from a supermarket would you.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
I understand your point of view and having a family myself (some days of the week) I can see how you would have priorities which come first. Don't you consider you are getting someone elses "work" and "intellectual property" for nothing. Not trying to make you feel bad but you wouldn't steal food from a supermarket would you.

That's a very bad analogy.

Because food is much more important than comics.

If I were so poor that I couldn't afford to buy food, I'd steal from super markets and not feel a bit of remorse about it.

If I were so poor that I couldn't afford comics, I'd drop a few titles and deal with it.

Originally posted by Soljer
That's a very bad analogy.

Because food is much more important than comics.




It's an extreme analogy not a bad one. It carries the sentiment that theft is theft is theft.


Originally posted by Soljer
That's a very bad analogy.

Because food is much more important than comics.

If I were so poor that I couldn't afford to buy food, I'd steal from super markets and not feel a bit of remorse about it.

If I were so poor that I couldn't afford comics, I'd drop a few titles and deal with it.



Not really..... You'd just download more, we've already established you're a theif.

Originally posted by Soljer
That's a very bad analogy.

Because food is much more important than comics.

its also a bad analogy in that it is much harder to steal food without getting caught, whereas you could easily get away with DL comics.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
I understand your point of view and having a family myself (some days of the week) I can see how you would have priorities which come first. Don't you consider you are getting someone elses "work" and "intellectual property" for nothing. Not trying to make you feel bad but you wouldn't steal food from a supermarket would you.
Stealing "intellectual property" and ACTUAL property are two entirely different things in my book. If I steal food from the supermarket, the supermarket actually has to replace the stolen food and therefor actually LOSES money. If I download a comic, the company doesn't lose anything because because all I've done is copy data over the Internet that was already available.

Before I started downloading if I wanted to know what was going on in the realm of comics the only option available to me was sitting in a store somewhere and reading issues without buying them. Now as careful as I was when I was doing that very thing, sometimes shit just happens and as a result there were several instances of my accidentally damaging the issue I was reading at the time(via sneezing, drink spilling, turning the page too quickly from excitement and bending/tearing them, ect.). So I cost the company more money when I WASN'T downloading because then the store was left with a book that no one wanted and ended up getting thrown away/recycled rather than bought.

Don't get me wrong, if you CAN afford to buy(and have access to) comics then I think that you should, but if not then so be it.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
I understand your point of view and having a family myself (some days of the week) I can see how you would have priorities which come first. Don't you consider you are getting someone elses "work" and "intellectual property" for nothing. Not trying to make you feel bad but you wouldn't steal food from a supermarket would you.

That analogy is horrible.

Comics aren't essential to getting by.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If I steal food from the supermarket, the supermarket actually has to replace the stolen food and therefor actually LOSES money. If I download a comic, the company doesn't lose anything because because all I've done is copy data over the Internet that was already available.


Exactly

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
It's an extreme analogy not a bad one. It carries the sentiment that theft is theft is theft.

Not really..... You'd just download more, we've already established you're a theif.

I think you're using the world Thief a little too loosely. If the law can't get 'im, you have no right to call him or anyone a thief. Downloading a comic isn't any worse than reading it at your friend's house.

Originally posted by llagrok


I think you're using the world Thief a little too loosely. If the law can't get 'im, you have no right to call him or anyone a thief. Downloading a comic isn't any worse than reading it at your friend's house.

Actually the law could get him. Yes downloading is worse because you are creating a copy in an electronic storage device and in most countries it's copyright theft.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
It's an extreme analogy not a bad one. It carries the sentiment that theft is theft is theft.






Not really..... You'd just download more, we've already established you're a theif.

I'm as much a thief as I am a drug runner, murderer, and rapist.

Originally posted by Soljer
I'm as much a thief as I am a drug runner, murderer, and rapist.

If you download comics you are committing copyright theft.

U.S. law coming up, most international law supports this also.

Intellectual Property is no different than physical property. Stealing intellectual property that is copyrighted is against the law and can have serious consequences. Movies, music, games, comics and software are forms of intellectually property that are usually copyrighted to protect the people who make them.

You admit to downloading so you admit you're a thief. It's a shame you admit to these other worse crimes also.

And who said I was a US resident?

Originally posted by Soljer
And who said I was a US resident?

U.K. law is almost exactly the same. F.A.C.T

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
U.K. law is almost exactly the same. F.A.C.T

I download comics what am I?

Originally posted by Switch 07
I download comics what am I?

Can't you read? If you download you are committing theft. Therefore you are a theif.

Just to make sure it's seen...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Stealing "intellectual property" and ACTUAL property are two entirely different things in my book. If I steal food from the supermarket, the supermarket actually has to replace the stolen food and therefor actually LOSES money. If I download a comic, the company doesn't lose anything because because all I've done is copy data over the Internet that was already available.

Before I started downloading if I wanted to know what was going on in the realm of comics the only option available to me was sitting in a store somewhere and reading issues without buying them. Now as careful as I was when I was doing that very thing, sometimes shit just happens and as a result there were several instances of my accidentally damaging the issue I was reading at the time(via sneezing, drink spilling, turning the page too quickly from excitement and bending/tearing them, ect.). So I cost the company more money when I WASN'T downloading because then the store was left with a book that no one wanted and ended up getting thrown away/recycled rather than bought.

Don't get me wrong, if you CAN afford to buy(and have access to) comics then I think that you should, but if not then so be it.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
If you download comics you are committing copyright theft.

U.S. law coming up, most international law supports this also.

Intellectual Property is no different than physical property. Stealing intellectual property that is copyrighted is against the law and can have serious consequences. Movies, music, games, comics and software are forms of intellectually property that are usually copyrighted to protect the people who make them.

You admit to downloading so you admit you're a thief. It's a shame you admit to these other worse crimes also.
Yes and if I wasn't reasonably sure that the politicians and police officers who enforce those laws(as well as the corporation members who ask for them) had things like mixed audio tapes and home recorded VHS tapes laying around their house somewhere I'd probably take those laws a little more seriously, but as things stand it seems a little hypocritical for the people in positions of authority to give guys like me a hard time.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
U.K. law is almost exactly the same. F.A.C.T



And is it a F.A.C.T. that I'm a UK resident?

You condemn those who own the issue, but download it anyways, for the various benefits. Despite if people live in countries where DL'ing doesn't break laws, their apparently thieves in your eyes anyways. And you expect everyone who lacks the money, but buys when they can, what they can, to stop DL'ing anyways, because it makes them thieves.

No, I'm not attempting to justify any of the above situations, but it seems you're more worried about the title of "thief", than actual damage to the industry.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just to make sure it's seen...



Yes and if I wasn't reasonably sure that the politicians and police officers who enforce those laws(as well as the corporation members who ask for them) had things like mixed audio tapes and home recorded VHS tapes laying around their house somewhere I'd probably take those laws a little more seriously, but as things stand it seems a little hypocritical for the people in positions of authority to give guys like me a hard time.

Well this leads on to a different question doesn't it. Should people have an entertainment allowance. Should it be part of a reasonable quality of life. Others might argue you made a choice to have a family and your entertainment etc. comes from having children. You have chosen to spend your finances on that.

What hypothetical others do should not be an excuse really should it? Especially when other better lines of excuse exist!

Originally posted by Soljer
And is it a F.A.C.T. that I'm a UK resident? Britain laid claim to everything the US doesn't own, while you were sleeping. Don't worry, just start driving on the other side of the road.

Originally posted by SpookySmurph
You condemn those who own the issue, but download it anyways, for the various benefits. Despite if people live in countries where DL'ing doesn't break laws, their apparently thieves in your eyes anyways. And you expect everyone who lacks the money, but buys when they can, what they can, to stop DL'ing anyways, because it makes them thieves.

No, I'm not attempting to justify any of the above situations, but it seems you're more worried about the title of "thief", than actual damage to the industry.

In those coutries where downloading is still legal it still counts as copyright theft. It's a moral issue. Your justifiucations sound like those throughout history of the immoral.

Originally posted by Soljer
And is it a F.A.C.T. that I'm a UK resident?


http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/international.html

Who knows where you're from.

Originally posted by SpookySmurph
You condemn those who own the issue, but download it anyways, for the various benefits. Despite if people live in countries where DL'ing doesn't break laws, their apparently thieves in your eyes anyways. And you expect everyone who lacks the money, but buys when they can, what they can, to stop DL'ing anyways, because it makes them thieves.

No, I'm not attempting to justify any of the above situations, but it seems you're more worried about the title of "thief", than actual damage to the industry.

He's more preoccupied with labeling and indirectly offending people than actually debating and the so called "damage" it does to the comic industry.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
In those coutries where downloading is still legal it still counts as copyright theft. It's a moral issue. You view it as unethical to download an issue that you already own?

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Your justifiucations sound like those throughout history of the immoral. Originally posted by SpookySmurph
I'm not attempting to justify any of the above situations Reading comprehension ftw!1!

Also, I see you've labeled me as a DL'r without prompt?

nono

Originally posted by llagrok
He's more preoccupied with labeling and indirectly offending people than actually debating and the so called "damage" it does to the comic industry.

Not at all theft is theft and people who commit it are thieves. Obviously the label is an unpleasant one.

http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/international.html

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan

Who knows where you're from.

Exactly.

You can hardly call me a thief when you don't know which laws govern me.

There is no such thing as an International Copyright that will automatically protect an author's writings throughout the entire world. Protection against unauthorized use in a particular country depends, basically, on the national laws of that country.

Originally posted by SpookySmurph
You view it as unethical to download an issue that you already own?

Reading comprehension ftw!1!

Also, I see you've labeled me as a DL'r without prompt?

nono

It's not that specific issue you already own. It would be a different version of that issue.

You are supporting DL'r right? Semantics.

Originally posted by llagrok
There is no such thing as an International Copyright that will automatically protect an author's writings throughout the entire world. Protection against unauthorized use in a particular country depends, basically, on the national laws of that country.


Actaully international treaties do provide international protection for intellectual property. For a list of countries which maintain copyright relations with the United States, request Circular 38a.

It's most countries....

Norway is on it.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
You are supporting DL'r right? Semantics. Not necessarily. I believe you have illogical, groundless views. I think you worry more about the label of thief, no matter the impacts or consequences of your actions. As demonstrated by:
Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
It's not that specific issue you already own. It would be a different version of that issue.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
It's not that specific issue you already own. It would be a different version of that issue.

You are supporting DL'r right? Semantics.

Hitler.

Originally posted by Soljer
Exactly.

You can hardly call me a thief when you don't know which laws govern me.

Yes I can if your stealing intellectual property.

However, most countries do offer protection to foreign works under certain conditions, and these conditions have been greatly simplified by international copyright treaties and conventions. For a list of countries which maintain copyright relations with the United States, request Circular 38a.

Originally posted by llagrok
Hitler.

Was a german who murdered countless people. What's your point by saying people are breaking copyright law I am a Nazi dictator about to commit suicide in a bunker..... I-i am sorry but you've lost me.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Yes I can if your stealing intellectual property.

However, most countries do offer protection to foreign works under certain conditions, and these conditions have been greatly simplified by international copyright treaties and conventions. For a list of countries which maintain copyright relations with the United States, request Circular 38a.

. Kay, thanks, bye.

Originally posted by Soljer
. Kay, thanks, bye.

Yup and i'd lay odds you in one of those "most" countries, as you are using the internet. The ones which are not are generally third world countries, where downloading is not an issue or countries where counterfeit products are stock in trade and generally have embargos against them.

Your concession is accepted.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Well this leads on to a different question doesn't it. Should people have an entertainment allowance. Should it be part of a reasonable quality of life. Others might argue you made a choice to have a family and your entertainment etc. comes from having children. You have chosen to spend your finances on that.
Allowance...as in "you're allowed to receive X amount of entertainment this month but no more"? F*ck that. By the same token, corporation members choose to work in an industry like comics which are endangered by things like Internet downloading, so they get what they get in the end whether it's success or bankruptcy.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
What hypothetical others do should not be an excuse really should it? Especially when other better lines of excuse exist!
I was just pointing out the reason I don't take copyright laws seriously. After all, hypocrisy isn't my excuse, poverty is. I'm not trying to be the "better person" and I have no desire to feel a since of moral superiority over the person standing next to me because as far as I'm concerned there are virtually no "good" people in the world. I do the best I can and try to be the best person I can afford to be, but at the end of the day I'm more concerned with my own well being than that of some rich vice president who's driving a BMW(while listening to a burned CD) and is upset because his yearly take-home is only 60,000 rather than 70,000 due to downloading.

People(ALL PEOPLE) ignore laws that they don't like or agree with(at least when they feel that they can get away with it), it's just that simple. That's why people get speeding tickets, that's why cops beat up people that haven't warranted it, that's why rich people have overseas bank accounts, that's why parents kill the person who raped their kid and got off the hook on a technicality, that's actually why there was an underground railroad to free black slaves, and that's why people "sock" forums that they've been banned from . Whether someone considers a law to be "right" factors in heavily in regards to their compliance with the law because let's face it, not all laws SHOULD be laws. This just happens to one that I disagree with for the most part so I don't let it weigh to heavily on my conscience. Does that make me a GOOD person....no. But it doesn't automatically make me a WORSE person than those who look down on me for it either.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Yup and i'd lay odds you in one of those "most" countries, as you are using the internet. The ones which are not are generally third world countries, where downloading is not an issue or countries where counterfeit products are stock in trade and generally have embargos against them.

Your concession is accepted.

Indeed.

there was a website floating around in cyberspace, that showed comic sales charts for the last 5 or 6 years....cant find it for the life of me, but it showed that sales werent that much different, in fact in some cases sales were better even after the advent or should i say popularization of piracy...so i say cry me a f ****ing river, build a bridge and get over it!!!!!

*takes out 3 comics that i just bought and lays them on table, then checks uTorrent*

omgi'm complex!

I buy comics. Fat load of good it does me. I end up missing issues cuz they sell out. And then the ****ing comic companies put out shit and dont' even treat the properties that I like with any kind of respect.

They ****ed the Xmen good.
Fantastic four, ****ed
Avengers soo damned late that when it came, it sold out. I still haven't read issue four.
New Gods, Dying
Wonder Woman, late, sucks, not respected.
Legion, terrible art, supergirl sucks with them.
Should I go on? The comics industry is ruining itself with trash writing, late comics, and no respect of all thier properties.

Hulk? dumb writing.
Silver Surfer? Jobbers all the time.
Firestorm? Cancelled becuz they just didn't put the effort into actually promoting him.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Yes I can if your stealing intellectual property.

However, most countries do offer protection to foreign works under certain conditions, and these conditions have been greatly simplified by international copyright treaties and conventions. For a list of countries which maintain copyright relations with the United States, request Circular 38a.

Dude what the heck are you doing here?

You're like a deranged genius,
you should be making a billion dollars or something.

I'm being serious too, people laugh at this guy but you gotta admit,
this cat is impressive.

A brilliant madman, with an off-beat yet great sense of humor.

I've also read many of your earlier works.



ps. That's the most annoying avatar I have ever seen.
(but I guess that was the point)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude what the heck on you doing here?

You're like a deranged genius,
you should be making a billion dollars or something.

I'm being serious too, people laugh at this guy but you gotta admit,
this cat is impressive.

A brilliant madman, with an off-beat yet great sense of humor.

I've also read many of your earlier works.



ps. That's the most annoying avatar I have ever seen.
(but I guess that was the point)

I find nothing he says to be genius. It's common sense. And he isn't spreading his message in any ingenius way. Being a troll and an ass certainly wont' get the message across.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I buy comics. Fat load of good it does me. I end up missing issues cuz they sell out. And then the ****ing comic companies put out shit and dont' even treat the properties that I like with any kind of respect.

They ****ed the Xmen good.
Fantastic four, ****ed
Avengers soo damned late that when it came, it sold out. I still haven't read issue four.
New Gods, Dying
Wonder Woman, late, sucks, not respected.
Legion, terrible art, supergirl sucks with them.
Should I go on? The comics industry is ruining itself with trash writing, late comics, and no respect of all thier properties.

Hulk? dumb writing.
Silver Surfer? Jobbers all the time.
Firestorm? Cancelled becuz they just didn't put the effort into actually promoting him.

I don't disagree necessarily... but I still remember the comics published in the 90s to well to complain about bad writing.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't disagree necessarily... but I still remember the comics published in the 90s to well to complain about bad writing. The Holographic covers of the 90's made me wanna shoot my wallet.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
So you break copyright "a bit" Ptr...... Can we say gray areas exist? Can you murder someone a little? Complicated......

Lol comparing murder to DL comics. I know it is still illegal. But I do support the comic industry and buy comics. Lets put it this way, once I DL an issue and liked it, then bought it. I wouldn't have considered it if I didn't DL it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Holographic covers of the 90's made me wanna shoot my wallet.

lol

I remember Valiant Comics had a shit load of those. Shadowman and Bloodshot lol

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
lol

I remember Valiant Comics had a shit load of those. Shadowman and Bloodshot lol

Them and Image where waaaaay over board on it. But the xmen and DC has thier fair share.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Them and Image where waaaaay over board on it. But the xmen and DC has thier fair share.

Yeah I have a couple copies of X-Men: Omega / Alpha and a chrome Wolverine 100 in long boxes somewhere.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah I have a couple copies of X-Men: Omega / Alpha and a chrome Wolverine 100 in long boxes somewhere. I have those,and the xmen series where they had holographic cars on them. I believe they were wolvie, magneto, gambit, and someone else. Also when gen x came out, they had foil strips. Ah the good old days.

Big whoop.

Originally posted by Citizen V
Big whoop.

Bigger Whoop

Originally posted by Alt. Account
You kids. The threadstarter is right. It's theft obviously and you are all thieves. And rapists, murderers, sadomasochists, and peeping toms.twisted

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
And rapists, murderers, sadomasochists, and peeping toms.twisted

You obviously know these kids better than I do. If you say so.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Can't you read? If you download you are committing theft. Therefore you are a theif. What if I don't care? What is going to happen?

Originally posted by Switch 07
What if I don't care? What is going to happen?

If you get caught? Judging from your posts you're a minor, so not much to you, your parents could get a very large fine though as I suspect it's there DSL connection.

Sometimes, after I finish downloading, I print all the pages out, and sell issues on the street for 5 bucks a piece.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Sometimes, after I finish downloading, I print all the pages out, and sell issues on the street for 5 bucks a piece. I usually save a series of books on a ten dollar flash drive and sell it on ebay for 30-40

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
I usually save a series of books on a ten dollar flash drive and sell it on ebay for 30-40 Got to try that some day.

I fetched 100ski on the street for Hulk 181.

Originally posted by Alt. Account
If you get caught? Judging from your posts you're a minor, so not much to you, your parents could get a very large fine though as I suspect it's there DSL connection.



We never get caught so what are You going to do about it?

You get my point?

Originally posted by Switch 07
We never get caught so what are You going to do about it?

You get my point?

I'm going to do nothing but when and if you are caught, I hope you can afford to pay your parents back for the trouble you have got them in with your thoughtless behaviour.

I download illegally because although I can afford a highspeed internet connection I don't have enough money to buy comics srug

Originally posted by Alt. Account
I'm going to do nothing but when and if you are caught, I hope you can afford to pay your parents back for the trouble you have got them in with your thoughtless behaviour.

Why are you banned your Zeb account isn't banned..yet?

Anyway, you know, I know we all know I wont get caught so tough shit to you.

But TBH I only download comics I already have.

Originally posted by Dexter_Morgan
Can't you read? If you download you are committing theft. Therefore you are a theif.

Not where I live

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I download illegally because although I can afford a highspeed internet connection I don't have enough money to buy comics srug Sometimes I go to the comic store with hundreds of dollars, just to look at what comics I'm going to download later.

Then I just go crazy with downloads.

Originally posted by Alt. Account
You kids. The threadstarter is right. It's theft obviously and you are all thieves.

and so what??? He possibility of any of the posters on here getting caught by the Police and then following being sued by Marvel is minimal. I must admit I doesn't Download Comic and I read the Ones that the store near me get unfortunate it isn't all he gets (actually very limited) its tempting to download but stillwhy should I when I can just go and read them for free, but since I do that it must be illegal too.

Originally posted by Utrigita
and so what??? He possibility of any of the posters on here getting caught by the Police and then following being sued by Marvel is minimal. I must admit I doesn't Download Comic and I read the Ones that the store near me get unfortunate it isn't all he gets (actually very limited) its tempting to download but stillwhy should I when I can just go and read them for free, but since I do that it must be illegal too.

You don't get sued by Marvel you get fined for breaking copyright laws.
Originally posted by Utrigita
I must admit I doesn't Download Comic and I

Are you Popeye?

Originally posted by llagrok
Not where I live
Norway signed Berne as it belongs to the EEC.

So yes it's intellectual property theft.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Sometimes I go to the comic store with hundreds of dollars, just to look at what comics I'm going to download later.

Then I just go crazy with downloads.

You're an inspiration to us all Sir.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Sometimes I go to the comic store with hundreds of dollars, just to look at what comics I'm going to download later.

Then I just go crazy with downloads.

Hat's off to you.


I get around it because we don't believe in laws.

Originally posted by Alt. Account
You don't get sued by Marvel you get fined for breaking copyright laws.


Are you Popeye?

And how much can that possibly be, that assuming they find anything on the harddrive, and then you will probably get sued by Marvel if they want to waist there time ore maybe they want to state a example and a few weeks fewer would download and then back to basic.

No I isn't I only said I have no need to download since I have a comic book store not far from here, els I would download.

Originally posted by Utrigita
And how much can that possibly be, that assuming they find anything on the harddrive, and then you will probably get sued by Marvel if they want to waist there time ore maybe they want to state a example and a few weeks fewer would download and then back to basic.

No I isn't I only said I have no need to download since I have a comic book store not far from here, els I would download.

U.S. Violation of copyright law is also considered a federal crime when done willfully with an intent to profit. Criminal penalties include up to ten years imprisonment depending on the nature of the violation. (No Electronic Theft Act, 18 U.S.C. 2319)

the U.K. are about to get a law passed for up to ten years as well I read on the register. No one has to sue anyone!!!!

So, tell me.

Have you ever downloaded anything off the internet?

Be it songs, or anything.

Originally posted by Alt. Account
U.S. Violation of copyright law is also considered a federal crime when done willfully with an intent to profit. Criminal penalties include up to ten years imprisonment depending on the nature of the violation. (No Electronic Theft Act, 18 U.S.C. 2319)

the U.K. are about to get a law passed for up to ten years as well I read on the register. No one has to sue anyone!!!!

I isn't well versed in the federal laws only my own countries laws and they are nowhere near that level. 10 years imprisonment... this must include all sorts of computer related crimes Hacking keylogging and so forth, not just downloading.

Okay.

But you didn't answear my question how are they gonna judge you if they cannot find anything in you computer???

Originally posted by Alt. Account
You kids. The threadstarter is right. It's theft obviously and you are all thieves. And your point sock?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
And your point sock?

is he a sock, whats his original name???

Originally posted by Da Pittman
And your point sock?


You have any evidence or proof to support this statement? No, that's right you don't however your unprovoked attack is a troll post. Troll!

Originally posted by Utrigita
is he a sock, whats his original name???
He is Whirly/Zebedee....etc.

Originally posted by Estacado
He is Whirly/Zebedee....etc.

Who is?

Originally posted by Utrigita


But you didn't answear my question how are they gonna judge you if they cannot find anything in you computer???

That wasn't your question, however logs are kept of downloaded files. It's easy to track them. If your country has signed Berne you can easily be prosecuted.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
So, tell me.

Have you ever downloaded anything off the internet?

Be it songs, or anything.

Good question.

Whirly would never lie

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
So, tell me.

Have you ever downloaded anything off the internet?

Be it songs, or anything.

Of course not.

Originally posted by Alt. Account
That wasn't your question, however logs are kept of downloaded files. It's easy to track them. If your country has signed Berne you can easily be prosecuted.
Not necessarily, smart pirates line the inside of their front door with magnets so that in the event of a raid, the hard drive will be erased when the cops carry it out the door. No evidence= no case= no penalty .

Originally posted by Alt. Account
Who is?
Fail.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not necessarily, smart pirates line the inside of their front door with magnets so that in the event of a raid, the hard drive will be erased when the cops carry it out the door. No evidence= no case= no penalty .

really? I never knew that. that's pretty brilliant. wouldn't you need some pretty powerful magnets though? and if it happens often, wouldn't the police think to check?

Originally posted by tjcoady
really? I never knew that. that's pretty brilliant. wouldn't you need some pretty powerful magnets though? and if it happens often, wouldn't the police think to check?
The magnets DO have to be pretty powerful, but not as powerful as it seems at first glance. Remember, whoever carries the computer out will likely hold it to one side of their body so they'll be holding it almost right up against the magnets. And the police MIGHT check, but what have you got to lose? Pirating is illegal, but lining your door with magnets isn't so it's not as if you'll get into any additional trouble for doing it.

....Uhhmmm...

Hate to break it to you (you dirty dirty thieves), but it's quite easy to obtain information from a hard drive even after it's been passed by magnets.

I mean, if the police feel like expending the time and resources.

Originally posted by Soljer
....Uhhmmm...

Hate to break it to you (you dirty dirty thieves), but it's quite easy to obtain information from a hard drive even after it's been passed by magnets.

I mean, if the police feel like expending the time and resources.

Then its good a Program like Killdisk ore Autonuke exist.

Originally posted by Alt. Account
That wasn't your question, however logs are kept of downloaded files. It's easy to track them. If your country has signed Berne you can easily be prosecuted.

And those logs can just as easy be altered.

(know he is banned just getting a weird kick out of responding to a member who cannot reply back)

Originally posted by Utrigita
And those logs can just as easy be altered.

(know he is banned just getting a weird kick out of responding to a member who cannot reply back) Zeebeedee CAN respond to you

ermmnone

Originally posted by Alt. Account
You have any evidence or proof to support this statement? No, that's right you don't however your unprovoked attack is a troll post. Troll! PWNT

Guess I didn't need to show any evidence.

As for whipping your hard drive unless you completely destroy, physically destroy the hard drive the can retrieve information from it. You may make it hard for the average computer geek but as long as there is any trace of the drive they can get info from it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Then its good a Program like Killdisk ore Autonuke exist.

If someone wants the data, they can still get it, even after a hundred times disk wipe/rewrite.

Prove it

313

Originally posted by Soljer
If someone wants the data, they can still get it, even after a hundred times disk wipe/rewrite.

After hundreds rewrites and a magnet wipe it would it would take weeks to get anything at all.

Plus, sledgehammer

Originally posted by Soljer
If someone wants the data, they can still get it, even after a hundred times disk wipe/rewrite.

Not from the harddrive, it is reset to look exactly the way it looked when it was created. all zeroes no pogram can get anything with meaning out of such a hard drive.

And KillDisk isn't just wipe/rewrite it's total annihilation of all information.

unless of cause this makes sense

00000

instead of 10010

Originally posted by Soljer
....Uhhmmm...

Hate to break it to you (you dirty dirty thieves), but it's quite easy to obtain information from a hard drive even after it's been passed by magnets.

I mean, if the police feel like expending the time and resources.
I live in a small town, the chances of the police actually expending those resources to bust a downloader are slim to none(and most of the cops here are morons who probably couldn't retrieve the data anyway). Besides as I said before, what do you have to lose from trying? If you do NOTHING then you're busted for sure, at least with my way you have a chance...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not necessarily, smart pirates line the inside of their front door with magnets so that in the event of a raid, the hard drive will be erased when the cops carry it out the door. No evidence= no case= no penalty .

Not quite.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/riaa-jury-finds.html

Originally posted by Avlon
Not quite.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/riaa-jury-finds.html

this is weird you can get judged without even having used the computer.

"In proving liability, the industry did not have to demonstrate that the defendant's computer had a file-sharing program installed at the time that they inspected her hard drive. And the RIAA did not have to show that the defendant was at the keyboard when RIAA investigators accessed Thomas' share folder"

It means that I can be accused and my computer taken they doesn't find anything but I still get convicted that's just weird.

also this.

"This is what can happen if you don't settle," RIAA attorney Richard Gabriel told reporters outside the courthouse. "I think we have sent a message we are willing to go to trial."

If the had settled (at a very smaller amount I'm sure) they would basically still have been happy.

and on top of that they basically leave out the most important evidence

The jury found her liable after receiving evidence her internet protocol address and cable modem identifier were used to share some 1,700 files. The hard drive linked to Kazaa on Feb. 21, 2005 -- the evening in question -- did not become evidence in the case.

According to testimony, Thomas replaced her hard drive weeks after RIAA investigators accessed her share file and discovered 1,702 files. The industry sued on just 24 of those files.

Great Trail one out of hundres of thousends cases that involves a group that attack the people on floor instead of going after the sites that share the files because they know they will lose.

Also she could sue them for hacking into her computer.